ARM and its major holder are now trying to buy
AmpereComputing - a maker of high-efficiency
high-speed "cloud interface" chips. It's
currently owned by Oracle. These chips are
intended for high-volume 'cloud' servers and
promise to save a lot of kilowatts and
nanoseconds over the competitors.
https://amperecomputing.com/
NOT likely to find 'em soldered to yer
Raspberry Pi however ....
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
ARM and its major holder are now trying to buy
AmpereComputing - a maker of high-efficiency
high-speed "cloud interface" chips. It's
currently owned by Oracle. These chips are
intended for high-volume 'cloud' servers and
promise to save a lot of kilowatts and
nanoseconds over the competitors.
https://amperecomputing.com/
NOT likely to find 'em soldered to yer
Raspberry Pi however ....
Fascinating how Oracle still has a toe hold or two in the HW business. I remember in my youth, when I had to study oracle license agreements, and found the "CPU factor" that was developed in such a way as to promote
sparc servers.
I recently had a look at arm-cpus to see if they would help me lower the
cost of software defined storage compute clusters, but sadly they are
way too high core, and too expensive to make any difference at all
compared with AMD cpus, so even though I could have used arm, in the
end, it was pointless. =/ I wish they produced cheap arm-cpu:s.
ARM does have its 'niche', but it's not wide enough to sell chips at AMD/Intel prices.
On 1/15/25 4:10 AM, D wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
ARM and its major holder are now trying to buy
AmpereComputing - a maker of high-efficiency
high-speed "cloud interface" chips. It's
currently owned by Oracle. These chips are
intended for high-volume 'cloud' servers and
promise to save a lot of kilowatts and
nanoseconds over the competitors.
https://amperecomputing.com/
NOT likely to find 'em soldered to yer
Raspberry Pi however ....
Fascinating how Oracle still has a toe hold or two in the HW business. I
remember in my youth, when I had to study oracle license agreements, and
found the "CPU factor" that was developed in such a way as to promote sparc >> servers.
Smart corps have a toe or two in most everything.
As in Nature - falling into a niche is Darwinian
Doom.
I recently had a look at arm-cpus to see if they would help me lower the
cost of software defined storage compute clusters, but sadly they are way
too high core, and too expensive to make any difference at all compared
with AMD cpus, so even though I could have used arm, in the end, it was
pointless. =/ I wish they produced cheap arm-cpu:s.
To get 'cheap' they need a higher-volume market. ARM
does have its 'niche', but it's not wide enough to
sell chips at AMD/Intel prices. They're more energy-
efficient, but these days the REAL energy goes into
zillions of Nvidia chips. I can see ARM being a player
in the 'portable' market for awhile though. Seems even
it is looking to diversify however ... Big Cloud may
complement 'AI'.
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if
they are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get about
14 hours or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump that to 25
I'd seriously consider one! But last time I had a look, 1.5 years ago,
the battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
On 16/01/2025 10:58, D wrote:
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if they >> are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get about 14 hours >> or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump that to 25 I'd
seriously consider one! But last time I had a look, 1.5 years ago, the
battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
There is some limit in terms of how much charge needs to get moved around
how many transistors of at least a given size that relates ultimate MIPS per watt to a figure independent of architecture.
The original ARM used very few transistors and an extremely well optimised instruction set to get the performance that it did at such low power.
Arguably it is now in the same ballpark as a late model INTEL *86 or even RISC chip.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 10:58, D wrote:
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if they >>> are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get about 14 hours >>> or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump that to 25 I'd
seriously consider one! But last time I had a look, 1.5 years ago, the
battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
There is some limit in terms of how much charge needs to get moved around
how many transistors of at least a given size that relates ultimate MIPS per >> watt to a figure independent of architecture.
The original ARM used very few transistors and an extremely well optimised >> instruction set to get the performance that it did at such low power.
Arguably it is now in the same ballpark as a late model INTEL *86 or even
RISC chip.
This would correspond well with what I see in the market. It's a shame.
I'd like to see a cpu focused on low power consumption since laptops don't need all the power they have today for regular day to day use. I'd much rather have a slow laptop that lasts me 30-40 hours, than a monster that
runs out of power after 8 hours.
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC options intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of the problem
as hardware.
On 17 Jan 2025 07:35:47 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM
extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC options
intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of the problem
as hardware.
ARM processors fall into three rough classes, A, M, and R. A is the
general purpose design like the Cortex A76 in the current Raspberry Pi 5, while M is the microprocessors like the Cortex M33 in the Pico 2.
The Raspberry Pi 5 runs Raspberry Pi )S, a Debian derivative, very nicely. People have tried other distros with mixed success. The Pis have been A series.
People with a lot of time on their hands have run Linux, sort of, on the RP2350.
https://liliputing.com/you-can-run-a-minimal-linux-distro-on-raspberry- pis-new-rp2350-microcontroller/
Choices will need to be made with the hardware design but I don't see the software as being the limitation.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 10:58, D wrote:
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if
they are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get
about 14 hours or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump
that to 25 I'd seriously consider one! But last time I had a look,
1.5 years ago, the battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
There is some limit in terms of how much charge needs to get moved
around how many transistors of at least a given size that relates
ultimate MIPS per watt to a figure independent of architecture.
The original ARM used very few transistors and an extremely well
optimised instruction set to get the performance that it did at such
low power.
Arguably it is now in the same ballpark as a late model INTEL *86 or
even RISC chip.
This would correspond well with what I see in the market. It's a shame.
I'd like to see a cpu focused on low power consumption since laptops
don't need all the power they have today for regular day to day use. I'd
much rather have a slow laptop that lasts me 30-40 hours, than a monster
that runs out of power after 8 hours.
On 17 Jan 2025 07:35:47 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM
extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC options
intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of the problem
as hardware.
ARM processors fall into three rough classes, A, M, and R. A is the
general purpose design like the Cortex A76 in the current Raspberry Pi 5, while M is the microprocessors like the Cortex M33 in the Pico 2. The R is real-time variant. I don't have an example of where they are currently
used.
That is further complicated by multi-core designs where some of the cores
are optimized for low power consumption or to really confuse the issue the RP2350 with two ARM cores and two RISC-V cores.
The Raspberry Pi 5 runs Raspberry Pi )S, a Debian derivative, very nicely. People have tried other distros with mixed success. The Pis have been A series.
People with a lot of time on their hands have run Linux, sort of, on the RP2350.
https://liliputing.com/you-can-run-a-minimal-linux-distro-on-raspberry- pis-new-rp2350-microcontroller/
Choices will need to be made with the hardware design but I don't see the software as being the limitation.
That's actually a very clever design - copes with both universes !
How smoothly the disparate cores work together, dunno.
With these things, it's the intended application that's the relevant
factor. Maybe you can't run Linux on some of the chips but there's
usually some cut-down substitute that'll get yer job done. Seriously
MICRO microcontrollers,
well, it's still gonna be ASM and 'C' - more like Arduinos and PICs.
Can't fit an OS into everything ...
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 00:46:02 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
That's actually a very clever design - copes with both universes !
How smoothly the disparate cores work together, dunno.
You can only use two cores at one time. I've read you can have one ARM and one RISC-V but I haven't verified it.
With these things, it's the intended application that's the relevant
factor. Maybe you can't run Linux on some of the chips but there's
usually some cut-down substitute that'll get yer job done. Seriously
MICRO microcontrollers,
well, it's still gonna be ASM and 'C' - more like Arduinos and PICs.
Can't fit an OS into everything ...
Sure for the really small sole use devices. Even the Uno R4 has a 32-bit
ARM Cortex-M4. I've got a couple of Nano Sense 33s that use the nRF52840, another Cortex-M4 design. Even Microchip is on board with the PIC32CX-BZ2, another Cortex-M4 SOC with BLE. There will always be a market for chips
like the original PICs or AVRs for rice cookers.
I've used the C SDK with the RP2040. You definitely have more control than using MicroPython but like all C and Python comparisons you're doing a lot more low level boilerplate to get the job done. If you need it the speed, control, and memory it's there. I don't know if hand coded ASM would buy much. C compilers are pretty good these days.
The interesting conversation these days is the next RTOS. ARM is dropping
the Mbed OS, EOL July 2026. Zephyr is one of the contenders.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 10:58, D wrote:
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if they >>>> are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get about 14 hours
or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump that to 25 I'd
seriously consider one! But last time I had a look, 1.5 years ago, the >>>> battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
There is some limit in terms of how much charge needs to get moved around >>> how many transistors of at least a given size that relates ultimate MIPS per
watt to a figure independent of architecture.
The original ARM used very few transistors and an extremely well optimised >>> instruction set to get the performance that it did at such low power.
Arguably it is now in the same ballpark as a late model INTEL *86 or even >>> RISC chip.
This would correspond well with what I see in the market. It's a shame.
I'd like to see a cpu focused on low power consumption since laptops don't >> need all the power they have today for regular day to day use. I'd much
rather have a slow laptop that lasts me 30-40 hours, than a monster that
runs out of power after 8 hours.
ARM SoCs for "ultra-low power" exist for things like smart watches,
laptop makers just don't use them. Note that the big screen on a
laptop is a major power draw too, although a very niche product
using a large eInk display with some of the new partial-update and
colour features might be useful for some people.
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC
options intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of
the problem as hardware.
On 17 Jan 2025 07:35:47 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM
extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC options
intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of the problem
as hardware.
ARM processors fall into three rough classes, A, M, and R. A is the
general purpose design like the Cortex A76 in the current Raspberry Pi 5, while M is the microprocessors like the Cortex M33 in the Pico 2. The R is real-time variant. I don't have an example of where they are currently
used.
That is further complicated by multi-core designs where some of the cores
are optimized for low power consumption or to really confuse the issue the RP2350 with two ARM cores and two RISC-V cores.
The Raspberry Pi 5 runs Raspberry Pi )S, a Debian derivative, very nicely. People have tried other distros with mixed success. The Pis have been A series.
People with a lot of time on their hands have run Linux, sort of, on the RP2350.
https://liliputing.com/you-can-run-a-minimal-linux-distro-on-raspberry- pis-new-rp2350-microcontroller/
Choices will need to be made with the hardware design but I don't see the software as being the limitation.
On 1/16/25 11:12 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 10:58, D wrote:
This is the truth! I've seen it in a few laptops. But I don't know if
they are energy efficient enough to make a huge difference. I get about >>>> 14 hours or so from my 1.5 year old laptop. If arm would bump that to 25 >>>> I'd seriously consider one! But last time I had a look, 1.5 years ago, >>>> the battery time on arm laptops was far from impressive.
There is some limit in terms of how much charge needs to get moved around >>> how many transistors of at least a given size that relates ultimate MIPS >>> per watt to a figure independent of architecture.
The original ARM used very few transistors and an extremely well optimised >>> instruction set to get the performance that it did at such low power.
Arguably it is now in the same ballpark as a late model INTEL *86 or even >>> RISC chip.
This would correspond well with what I see in the market. It's a shame. I'd >> like to see a cpu focused on low power consumption since laptops don't need >> all the power they have today for regular day to day use. I'd much rather
have a slow laptop that lasts me 30-40 hours, than a monster that runs out >> of power after 8 hours.
Having a choice, I bought an HP laptop with a lower-end i3
rather than going for 'power'. It DOES last a lot longer on
batteries and doesn't run nearly as hot. Good enough for
anything I'm doing right now.
In any case, laptops, seems MOST of the power goes to
the DISPLAY. Be it LEDs or LED-backlit LCDs, the juice
required is about the same. E-paper is too slow.
I wonder if linux + modern work such as spreadsheets and audio/video
calls would be possible on those minimum-power ARM chips or if they are
too slow?
ARM SoCs for "ultra-low power" exist for things like smart watches,
laptop makers just don't use them. Note that the big screen on a
laptop is a major power draw too, although a very niche product
using a large eInk display with some of the new partial-update and
colour features might be useful for some people.
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC
options intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of
the problem as hardware.
On 17/01/2025 09:20, D wrote:
I wonder if linux + modern work such as spreadsheets and audio/video calls >> would be possible on those minimum-power ARM chips or if they are too slow?
I do not know how true this is, but by suspicion is that if you could take a Pi and underclock it by about 1000, it might prove alarmingly economical
Speradsheets would be no problem but processing video takes a shit load of CPU.
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
On Thu, 17 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
ARM SoCs for "ultra-low power" exist for things like smart watches,
laptop makers just don't use them. Note that the big screen on a
laptop is a major power draw too, although a very niche product
using a large eInk display with some of the new partial-update and
colour features might be useful for some people.
Very interesting. Thank you for the information. As for eInk I haven't
(yet) seen one that would be able to keep up with videos. If such a thing exists, it would be awesome!
When I buy laptops I always try to get the lowest resolution I can, as
well as to avoid touch screen, in order to increase the battery life.
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM
extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC
options intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of
the problem as hardware.
I wonder if linux + modern work such as spreadsheets and audio/video calls would be possible on those minimum-power ARM chips or if they are too
slow?
... my original point was that MIP for MIP ARM is having
trouble outperforming *86 at lower power.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to
connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe solutions.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
ARM SoCs for "ultra-low power" exist for things like smart watches,
laptop makers just don't use them. Note that the big screen on a
laptop is a major power draw too, although a very niche product
using a large eInk display with some of the new partial-update and
colour features might be useful for some people.
Very interesting. Thank you for the information. As for eInk I haven't
(yet) seen one that would be able to keep up with videos. If such a thing
exists, it would be awesome!
No way with videos, but then I very rarely view them on a laptop
anyway, so I'm more interested in things like reading/writing to
Usenet. I gather the writing part has previously been shaky because
eInk displays update slower than people type, but new ones can
update one section of the display faster than refreshing the whole
display, so you might be able to practically update around the
cursor posiiton without such excessive lag.
When I buy laptops I always try to get the lowest resolution I can, as
well as to avoid touch screen, in order to increase the battery life.
I'd have thought that most power is used to generate the light
(from an OLED display or LCD backlight), so screen size would be
more related to power usage than resolution.
Finding the minimum-power ARM chip able to run Linux would be an
interesting exercise. I gather Linux requires a minimum set of ARM
extensions, as well as an MMU, which may exclude many of the SoC
options intended for embedded applications. Software is as much of
the problem as hardware.
I wonder if linux + modern work such as spreadsheets and audio/video calls >> would be possible on those minimum-power ARM chips or if they are too
slow?
Well many are faster than the Pentium 1 PC I'm posting from now.
Clock speeds of 250MHz for example, while using a fraction of the
power from something like a Raspberry Pi Zero. This PC can do
spreadsheets and probably low-fi audio calls, but not video.
This is my thinking in saying the inability to use these
ultra-low-power SoC chips for more general computing is a software
problem. Unlike microcontrollers of old, these ARM-based things are
matching and exceeding the specs of this PC that I'm using. The
difference is that you can build most Linux software to run on a
Pentium 1 with one compiler argument, but it appears to be
difficult to build for these chips, and existing work is geared
towards running a custom, or at least customised, programs.
After thirty years minimum-power processors seem to have caught up
with the minimum level of processing speed that I regularly find
use for. Only by the fact that the architecture is wrong for
existing software does that preclude me taking advantage of this
advancement, because I don't want to try and rewrite tons of common
x86 software to run on these embedded architectures.
RAM is also a limitation, and since it's locked inside these SoCs
you can't expand it. Again projects like Contiki OS chew up vastly
less RAM than Linux while still offering networked applications and
a graphical environment (in the old version).
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to
connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe
solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby project. I wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to such a state that someone might actually consider using it in production environments? With sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
My thinking was more pixels to update, more loads on the computer,
coupled with some power to handle the touch aspect as well. But you are probably right. As for screen size, my favourite form factor is 11.6"
which does not exist any longer. =( Only 13.3 inch or 14 now for general
use laptops.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to
connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe
solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby project.
I wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to such a state
that someone might actually consider using it in production
environments? With sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:45:21 +0100, D wrote:
My thinking was more pixels to update, more loads on the computer,
coupled with some power to handle the touch aspect as well. But you are
probably right. As for screen size, my favourite form factor is 11.6"
which does not exist any longer. =( Only 13.3 inch or 14 now for general
use laptops.
I have one from the netbook era that is running Lubuntu. I also have a Eee
PC that is even smaller. The manufacturers were feeling their way around looking for a size between laptops and tablets and that form factor lost.
We bought some 10" tablets for development and they seemed awkward to me.
The netbook wasn't that much bigger and had a real keyboard.
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to >>>> connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe
solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby project. I
wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to such a state that
someone might actually consider using it in production environments? With
sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to >>>>> connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe
solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby
project. I wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to
such a state that someone might actually consider using it in
production environments? With sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
How many spinning drives do you think it can handle?
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of got
used to it.
On 19/01/2025 10:47, D wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to >>>>>> connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per >>>>>> system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe >>>>> solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby project. I >>>> wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to such a state that >>>> someone might actually consider using it in production environments? With >>>> sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
How many spinning drives do you think it can handle?
It has a 12v 5A supply. You work it out.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:42:25 +0100, D wrote:
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of got
used to it.
I wanted something I could throw into a motorcycle saddlebag and not worry about so I snapped one up when they came out. I sidelined it when it
couldn't handle WSA2. Last year I put Q4OS on it.
https://q4os.org/
It took a couple of tries when I got too greedy with what I selected for
the install. Trinity worked. The original Xandros distro is discontinued.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:42:25 +0100, D wrote:
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of got
used to it.
I wanted something I could throw into a motorcycle saddlebag and not worry about so I snapped one up when they came out. I sidelined it when it
couldn't handle WSA2. Last year I put Q4OS on it.
https://q4os.org/
It took a couple of tries when I got too greedy with what I selected for
the install. Trinity worked. The original Xandros distro is discontinued.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:42:25 +0100, D wrote:
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of got
used to it.
I wanted something I could throw into a motorcycle saddlebag and not
worry
about so I snapped one up when they came out. I sidelined it when it
couldn't handle WSA2. Last year I put Q4OS on it.
https://q4os.org/
It took a couple of tries when I got too greedy with what I selected for
the install. Trinity worked. The original Xandros distro is discontinued.
I love the fact that old computers are still perfectly usable today!
Sadly the batteries on my (or now, my fathers) two macbook airs are too
bad for me to use them for business.
One of them now serves as an audio player with some kind of USB
amplifier thing my father bought in a hifi-store so it can drive his speakers. Works great!
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to >>>>> connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per
system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe
solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby
project. I wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to
such a state that someone might actually consider using it in
production environments? With sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
How many spinning drives do you think it can handle?
An "old/weak" WINDOWS laptop becomes a perfectly good
LINUX laptop. So, don't be in a huge hurry to put yer
old tech into the bin. It can live on.
Mac ... um ... you're probably stuck with their OS - but
even then they can be relegated to 2nd-tier services.
Batteries ... check around. It's surprising how many odd
laptop batts you can find. Had to replace one in an old
laptop recently and the name-brand batt was on Amazon at
a good price.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/01/2025 10:47, D wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for >>>>>>> archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good
ways to
connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per >>>>>>> system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe >>>>>> solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby
project. I wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to
such a state that someone might actually consider using it in
production environments? With sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
How many spinning drives do you think it can handle?
It has a 12v 5A supply. You work it out.
Not many in itself, so power would have to come from somewhere else.
On 1/19/25 5:08 PM, D wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:42:25 +0100, D wrote:I love the fact that old computers are still perfectly usable today! Sadly >> the batteries on my (or now, my fathers) two macbook airs are too bad for
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of got >>>> used to it.
I wanted something I could throw into a motorcycle saddlebag and not worry >>> about so I snapped one up when they came out. I sidelined it when it
couldn't handle WSA2. Last year I put Q4OS on it.
https://q4os.org/
It took a couple of tries when I got too greedy with what I selected for >>> the install. Trinity worked. The original Xandros distro is discontinued. >>
me to use them for business.
One of them now serves as an audio player with some kind of USB amplifier
thing my father bought in a hifi-store so it can drive his speakers. Works >> great!
An "old/weak" WINDOWS laptop becomes a perfectly good
LINUX laptop. So, don't be in a huge hurry to put yer
old tech into the bin. It can live on.
Mac ... um ... you're probably stuck with their OS - but
even then they can be relegated to 2nd-tier services.
Batteries ... check around. It's surprising how many odd
laptop batts you can find. Had to replace one in an old
laptop recently and the name-brand batt was on Amazon at
a good price.
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its
own extra power supply?
On 1/19/25 5:47 AM, D wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/18/25 5:39 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:32:07 +0100, D wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to build a PB storage system for
archive use cases on a bunch of Pi 5? =) Does it have any good ways to >>>>>> connect disks, or is it still only USB? I wonder how many disks per >>>>>> system it could handle with confidence?
https://smist08.wordpress.com/2024/05/24/raspberry-pi-5-with-ssd/
The Pi 5 has a PCIe port and there are Raspberry and third party NMVe >>>>> solutions.
Interesting! Thank you for the link. This could be a fun hobby project. I >>>> wonder if it would be possible, over time, to get it to such a state that >>>> someone might actually consider using it in production environments? With >>>> sounds and strong redundancy, maybe!
You can buy a 5-drive Pi5 hat and plug in laptop
drives or, preferably, SATA SSDs. Buy on Amazon.
Apparently the not-so-bad OpenMediaVault distro
now WILL boot on a Pi5. I've used it professionally
and its really pretty good at this point - and gives
you lots of fine control. It's also LIGHT, which is
great for a Pi NAS.
https://www.raspberrypibox.com/how-to-install-open-media-vault-on-raspberry-pi-5/
How many spinning drives do you think it can handle?
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The hat has 5 slots, so I guess 5. Not sure if
an extra-strong PS is needed, esp for mag drives.
OMV ... I used it as a mirror/backup server and it
had 8 mag drives. Tweak two settings and it'd
look/feel exactly like the primary server so far
as the office clients were concerned.
RAM issues; unfortunately,
with every single webpage chewing up 50+ MB even with scripts disabled,
you just end up swapping like nobody's business with only 4 GB; the 2nd- generation i5 doesn't help, either.)
On 20/01/2025 16:14, John Ames wrote:
RAM issues; unfortunately,
with every single webpage chewing up 50+ MB even with scripts disabled,
you just end up swapping like nobody's business with only 4 GB; the 2nd-
generation i5 doesn't help, either.)
Well I only use a laptop in bed or away from home, and having a zillion
sites open isn't especially relevant...I get by with 4GB
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its
own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its own >>> extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:42:25 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I remember the Eee PC. It was very cute! People always asked me how I
could stand working on a 11.6" laptop (Macbook air), but I kind of
got used to it.
I get strength from the fact that Linus Torvalds at one point in time
also proclaimed that the Macbook air 11.6" was the perfect form
factor for him!
Still use my Eee 904HA (a 9" model) as a portable typewriter. Nobody
but *nobody* solved the laptop-hinge problem like Asus did on those
first couple Eee generations; solid as a rock.
(Do miss my 12" Thinkpad X201 - just the right size for me, but no
longer viable as a daily driver due to max. RAM issues; unfortunately,
with every single webpage chewing up 50+ MB even with scripts disabled,
you just end up swapping like nobody's business with only 4 GB; the 2nd- generation i5 doesn't help, either.)
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its own
extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Yes, but it wiill still be slow, have a limited screen and gobble
electrons
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its
own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if the
pi hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it
would be nice if it did so at full speeds.
Given that the server manufacturers seem to no longer want to produce smaller, cheaper nodes, but only want to sell huge GPU machines, I'm contemplating if it actually might not be possible to build a nice
archive solution on pi:s, spinning disks and a few cards at a good price.
To be continued... as the saying goes.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have
its own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 09:08:31 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Yes, but it wiill still be slow, have a limited screen and gobble
electrons
Just the act of putting Linux on an old machine can often make it feel
like a new machine.
On 1/20/25 3:58 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its >>>>> own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
Gotta whip together SOME kind of holding frame.
The Pi, hat and drives just kinda stick up there
by gravity as-is. May still have some sheets
of ABS plastic ... a little epoxy .....
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its own >>>> extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if the pi >> hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it would be
nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Given that the server manufacturers seem to no longer want to produce
smaller, cheaper nodes, but only want to sell huge GPU machines, I'm
contemplating if it actually might not be possible to build a nice archive >> solution on pi:s, spinning disks and a few cards at a good price.
To be continued... as the saying goes.
Yep ... lemme get in and fool with my 5-drive unit
a bit and I'll write a hands-on report. The price
is good enough (the DRIVES are $$$ alas)
Even without the SATA hat ... you CAN run a number
of external USB 3.x drives from a Pi. Won't be as
quick, but it works OK.
And yea, I know what you mean about everybody trending
towards "overkill" boxes/systems. Better $ margin I guess.
Still no shortage of motherboards - so you can build
your own "appropriate" boxes.
For an NAS, it's the drive speeds that are kinda the
limiting factor, so even a 'slow' motherboard won't
hurt anything. It's all I/O-bound.
The popular Sinology canned NAS units - 4/6/8/12 drive
units with multiple network plugs - all use basically
laptop-grade 'Celeron' grade processors.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:That is what the blurb says it comes with/needs
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have
its own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
[-- text/plain, encoding 8bit, charset: utf-8, 94 lines --]
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its own >>>>> extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if the pi >>> hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it would be >>> nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Hmm, do you have a link? What does "a little pokey" mean in terms of
writes? If it is only performance and latency related, then it is ok,
since the software will take care of a lot of that for me.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:58 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have
its own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
Gotta whip together SOME kind of holding frame.
The Pi, hat and drives just kinda stick up there
by gravity as-is. May still have some sheets
of ABS plastic ... a little epoxy .....
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have
its own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if
the pi hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives,
it would be nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Hmm, do you have a link? What does "a little pokey" mean in terms of
writes? If it is only performance and latency related, then it is ok,
since the software will take care of a lot of that for me.
Given that the server manufacturers seem to no longer want to produce
smaller, cheaper nodes, but only want to sell huge GPU machines, I'm
contemplating if it actually might not be possible to build a nice
archive solution on pi:s, spinning disks and a few cards at a good
price.
To be continued... as the saying goes.
Yep ... lemme get in and fool with my 5-drive unit
a bit and I'll write a hands-on report. The price
is good enough (the DRIVES are $$$ alas)
Great! =)
Even without the SATA hat ... you CAN run a number
of external USB 3.x drives from a Pi. Won't be as
quick, but it works OK.
My plan, if it works, is to pitch this to a company, so I think the USB
way, although ok for home use, would not be accepted. =(
And yea, I know what you mean about everybody trending
towards "overkill" boxes/systems. Better $ margin I guess.
Still no shortage of motherboards - so you can build
your own "appropriate" boxes.
This is the truth! I wonder if it would be possible to 3d print boxes
for custom components at a good price? If the pi-road works, I could
imagine a nice custom printed part of the chassi to enable nice plug and
pray replacement of pi:s! Just pull out a pi module, replace, and go! =)
For an NAS, it's the drive speeds that are kinda the
limiting factor, so even a 'slow' motherboard won't
hurt anything. It's all I/O-bound.
As long as the reads and writes are taken care of I'm planning on using
some software defined storage solution to help me handle that. Maybe the solution is to add a ssd as a cache or something, or split the data to
be written across several spinning disks. What worries me with flaky
storage is massive rebuilds.
Hmm, is there a way to get Pi:s on a 10 Gb network? Or are they limited
to 1 Gb only?
The popular Sinology canned NAS units - 4/6/8/12 drive
units with multiple network plugs - all use basically
laptop-grade 'Celeron' grade processors.
Synology are trying to enter the enterprise market! I encountered them
in a discussion with a university where they proposed to store 1 PB on
their biggest product. Since they use some kind of linux inside, they
had all kinds of weird limitations on the nr of files in the same
directory etc. Very strange, but it was enough to point at the
limitations to get the university to drop them like a hot potato! In the
end I did not win, because my customer references where too honest (it's
a great solution) vs the competition who obviously orchestrated their customers (it's like having a friend who does everything for you, I
never touch the storage, the vendor does anything I ask). =( Well, let's
see how happy they are once the signature is on the dotted line.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:have its own extra power supply?
On 1/20/25 3:58 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat
without extra power.
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
Gotta whip together SOME kind of holding frame.
The Pi, hat and drives just kinda stick up there
by gravity as-is. May still have some sheets
of ABS plastic ... a little epoxy .....
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
[-- text/plain, encoding 8bit, charset: utf-8, 94 lines --]
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its own
extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if the pi
hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it would be >>>> nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Hmm, do you have a link? What does "a little pokey" mean in terms of
writes? If it is only performance and latency related, then it is ok,
since the software will take care of a lot of that for me.
The nymshift troll was likely referring to two possibilities:
1) SMR mechanical drives
2) SSD's
In both cases, writes have to be done in what amounnts to a "two step process".
For SMR drives, because the magnetic tracks physically overlap, writes
get queued to a non SMR area, and then get "moved" to the actual disk
sectors as a bigger batch to maintain the proper "overlap" of the
magnetic tracks.
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of "pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than justDepends if you already have the printer or not.
cutting/gluing some raw plastic sheets 🙂
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of "pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
On 1/21/25 2:56 PM, Rich wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
[-- text/plain, encoding 8bit, charset: utf-8, 94 lines --]
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its >>>>>>> own
extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if the >>>>> pi
hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it would >>>>> be
nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Hmm, do you have a link? What does "a little pokey" mean in terms of
writes? If it is only performance and latency related, then it is ok,
since the software will take care of a lot of that for me.
The nymshift troll was likely referring to two possibilities:
1) SMR mechanical drives
2) SSD's
In both cases, writes have to be done in what amounnts to a "two step
process".
For SMR drives, because the magnetic tracks physically overlap, writes
get queued to a non SMR area, and then get "moved" to the actual disk
sectors as a bigger batch to maintain the proper "overlap" of the
magnetic tracks.
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
Disks - magnetic or SSD - are kinda messy. Of course
their mission is kinda messy - deal with odd-sized
blobs of data, try to jam it in somewhere, maybe have
to move pre-existing around, try not to create TOO
many 'gaps', for years and years.
SSDs are quicker regardless and use less power, but
that doesn't mean they're just a petabyte of empty
space, STUFF has to happen. SSDs trend smaller than
HDDs too and are more $$$ per terabyte. Yer basic
WD/Seagte magnetic laptop drives are a pretty good
deal IF you can handle the power req.
Made a "different building" aux backup unit using
a Pi-3 and 2.5" USB mag drive. The idea was to
keep the Most Important Stuff in a separate
building, separate leg of the power system. Used
wi-fi ... but had all day to do its thing. This
was protection against lighting/surges/fires
and the dreaded Giant Mug Of Coffee that might
afflict the main NAS. Cheap, worked great, a
Python pgm to do the backups (DO confirm yer
USB and NAS are both mounted). The USB drive
was powered by the Pi, not an external wart.
The drive and Pi were taped together and the
whole mess was velcroed to the underside of a
shelf out in a shop building.
On 1/21/25 4:13 AM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:58 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its >>>>>>> own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
Gotta whip together SOME kind of holding frame.
The Pi, hat and drives just kinda stick up there
by gravity as-is. May still have some sheets
of ABS plastic ... a little epoxy .....
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just
cutting/gluing some raw plastic sheets :-)
There exists some thin 'expanded aluminum' sheets
that are normally used on the bottom half of
screen doors - silver or pretty gold. They are
easy to cut and bend tight. Look around in
a Lowes store. I've used that for make-do
enclosures before.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353
If you have one of these :
https://www.northerntool.com/products/ironton-portable-sheet-metal-bending-brake-30in-wide-101452
then you're way ahead of the game.
I think of a Pi as "economy" and thus keep the
apps/add-ons kinda cheap. Otherwise I'd use some
kind of desktop.
Alas those cheap BeeLink/BMax units only have
one SATA port so you can add an SSD drive in
the bottom of the box. I think Orinco sells
a "SATA hub" ... kinda like a USB hub ... that
can turn one into many. Dunno if it only works
with Winders drivers however .......
On 22/01/2025 00:30, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?Depends if you already have the printer or not.
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just
cutting/gluing some raw plastic sheets 🙂
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that is way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
snipGo to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just cutting/gluing some
raw plastic sheets
Interesting! Had no idea 3d printing was that expensive in comparison.
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that
is way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that is way
larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
Indutrial ssds do have spare space exactly in order to prolong lifetime.
I think when ssds first came out, there was one vendor, STEC, if
memory serves, that manufactured vastly over engineered drives in the beginning. They seemed to last forever. Then they learned of
course, and started to reduce quality and lifetime to industry
standards and of course the price as well.
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack together.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 10:28:11 +0100, D wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
snipGo to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just cutting/gluing some
raw plastic sheets
Interesting! Had no idea 3d printing was that expensive in comparison.
The library's makerspace has several 3D printers. You can schedule a job
and the only cost is for the materials.
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack together.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
That might be quicker than waiting many hours for a big long
3D print job (possibly more than once if you have print failures).
On the other hand it's easier to get mounting holes in exactly the
right position with 3D printing (to bolt on drives and the RPi
board), compared to marking them and drilling them. There are
probably lots of inelegant alternative ways to secure them though.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of >>>> "pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that is way
larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
Indutrial ssds do have spare space exactly in order to prolong lifetime.
Even consumer SSD's have "spare space", for the same reason. They
just, typically, don't have as much spare space as the "server class"
drives do from the start.
I think when ssds first came out, there was one vendor, STEC, if
memory serves, that manufactured vastly over engineered drives in the
beginning. They seemed to last forever. Then they learned of
course, and started to reduce quality and lifetime to industry
standards and of course the price as well.
Yes, the race to the bottom on price.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, Rich wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically
much larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given
enough writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller
can run out of "pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens
write speed slows down to the rate that can be done when a "block
erase" has to occur before the actual writes can hit the media.
Note that this "block erase" can also invove moving any partially
used data sectors out of the block into another block, creating a
"write amplification" situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD
that is way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks
available.
And can do the block erases in background
Indutrial ssds do have spare space exactly in order to prolong lifetime.
Even consumer SSD's have "spare space", for the same reason. They
just, typically, don't have as much spare space as the "server class"
drives do from the start.
Interesting! Didn't know they did this in the consumer space.
I think when ssds first came out, there was one vendor, STEC, if
memory serves, that manufactured vastly over engineered drives in
the beginning. They seemed to last forever. Then they learned of
course, and started to reduce quality and lifetime to industry
standards and of course the price as well.
Yes, the race to the bottom on price.
I read somewhere that the expected point of convergence between
spinning and ssd in terms of dollar/GB is around 2030.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that
is way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And hope it has a decent block layer that spreads the writes around so
no one part of the flash is written to more than any other parts.
And can do the block erases in background
Most SSD's do erases in the background, so that they can have empty
blocks waiting to absorb writes.
But stream a large enough set of writes at the drive, and you can (for
some drives) use up the queue of background erased blocks and then you
see your write speed drop by a good amount because the block erases are
now also part of the "write path" for your data heading at the drive.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
This path would work well for a rough proof of concept.
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and
figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and drawn,
so that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected and started, without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to bypass the ports and do some light soldering to make sure all connectors are facing
the back.
I read somewhere that the expected point of convergence betweenThat will be interesting to see. Not there yet, but certianly can
spinning and ssd in terms of dollar/GB is around 2030.
happen.
Hmm, I don't think there's anything like that in sweden. There was a non profit, who runs the .se domain, and they did have a maker space for a
couple of years, but I think they shut it down.
I think you can download stl files and then just upload them with some
kind of print software. That's what I would expect at least.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
This path would work well for a rough proof of concept.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/21/25 4:13 AM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:58 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 5:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat
have its own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Used to run an external USB magnetic from
a Pi4 ... worked just fine. TWO of them,
well, not so sure.
The 5-drive hat ... Philosopher says it needs
at least a 12v/5a supply, esp if you're gonna
run all magnetics. I have a couple of those
around, may have to splice on the right plug ...
This is promising!
Gotta whip together SOME kind of holding frame.
The Pi, hat and drives just kinda stick up there
by gravity as-is. May still have some sheets
of ABS plastic ... a little epoxy .....
Go to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just
cutting/gluing some raw plastic sheets :-)
Interesting! Had no idea 3d printing was that expensive in comparison.
There exists some thin 'expanded aluminum' sheets
that are normally used on the bottom half of
screen doors - silver or pretty gold. They are
easy to cut and bend tight. Look around in
a Lowes store. I've used that for make-do
enclosures before.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353
Strange, I get access denied.
If you have one of these :
https://www.northerntool.com/products/ironton-portable-sheet-metal-bending-brake-30in-wide-101452
then you're way ahead of the game.
I think of a Pi as "economy" and thus keep the
apps/add-ons kinda cheap. Otherwise I'd use some
kind of desktop.
Alas those cheap BeeLink/BMax units only have
one SATA port so you can add an SSD drive in
the bottom of the box. I think Orinco sells
a "SATA hub" ... kinda like a USB hub ... that
can turn one into many. Dunno if it only works
with Winders drivers however .......
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 10:28:11 +0100, D wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
snipGo to your friendly neighbourhood 3d printer! =) Wouldn't that work?
Umm ... that'd be a lot more expensive than just cutting/gluing some
raw plastic sheets
Interesting! Had no idea 3d printing was that expensive in comparison.
The library's makerspace has several 3D printers. You can schedule a job
and the only cost is for the materials.
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack together.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/21/25 2:56 PM, Rich wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
[-- text/plain, encoding 8bit, charset: utf-8, 94 lines --]
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat
have its own
extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk
without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally,
if the pi
hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it
would be
nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Hmm, do you have a link? What does "a little pokey" mean in terms of
writes? If it is only performance and latency related, then it is ok,
since the software will take care of a lot of that for me.
The nymshift troll was likely referring to two possibilities:
1) SMR mechanical drives
2) SSD's
In both cases, writes have to be done in what amounnts to a "two step
process".
For SMR drives, because the magnetic tracks physically overlap, writes
get queued to a non SMR area, and then get "moved" to the actual disk
sectors as a bigger batch to maintain the proper "overlap" of the
magnetic tracks.
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
Disks - magnetic or SSD - are kinda messy. Of course
their mission is kinda messy - deal with odd-sized
blobs of data, try to jam it in somewhere, maybe have
to move pre-existing around, try not to create TOO
many 'gaps', for years and years.
SSDs are quicker regardless and use less power, but
that doesn't mean they're just a petabyte of empty
space, STUFF has to happen. SSDs trend smaller than
HDDs too and are more $$$ per terabyte. Yer basic
WD/Seagte magnetic laptop drives are a pretty good
deal IF you can handle the power req.
This is the truth!
Made a "different building" aux backup unit using
a Pi-3 and 2.5" USB mag drive. The idea was to
keep the Most Important Stuff in a separate
building, separate leg of the power system. Used
wi-fi ... but had all day to do its thing. This
was protection against lighting/surges/fires
and the dreaded Giant Mug Of Coffee that might
afflict the main NAS. Cheap, worked great, a
Python pgm to do the backups (DO confirm yer
USB and NAS are both mounted). The USB drive
was powered by the Pi, not an external wart.
The drive and Pi were taped together and the
whole mess was velcroed to the underside of a
shelf out in a shop building.
Good stuff! I replicate between two countries for added resilience. Both rsync and restic work great backing up to a tor hidden service. To speed things up, the first backup can be done locally, and after that, only
deltas are sent from around the world.
So far restic is still good. I wonder what its weaknesses are? Would be
a shame to drop my trusted old rsync script + hardlinks in favour of
restic only to discover some hidden bug. On the other hand it seems as
if 1000s of people all over the world are using it and are happy with
it, so maybe it is mature enough.
I know one guy who builds Pi boxes mostly out of WOOD.
He has the right tools, and endless stocks of wood.
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of
"pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that
is way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
Indutrial ssds do have spare space exactly in order to prolong lifetime.
I think when ssds first came out, there was one vendor, STEC, if memory serves, that manufactured vastly over engineered drives in the
beginning. They seemed to last forever. Then they learned of course, and started to reduce quality and lifetime to industry standards and of
course the price as well.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in- x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine Versandadresse. "
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel
anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine
Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel
anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine
Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel >>> anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine >>> Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
Lowes is a US company. So I could see them deciding to avoid all the
GDPR issues with cookies and consent by attempting to geoblock EU IP addresses.
On 23/01/2025 08:10, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:just search for aluminium sheet. You can cut it with heavy duty scissors
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel >>> anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine >>> Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
or shears
On 1/23/25 4:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 08:10, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:just search for aluminium sheet. You can cut it with heavy duty
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in- >>>> x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your >>>> delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel >>>> anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte
deine
Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
scissors or shears
Aluminum "flashing" - meant to tuck under roofing paper -
is very easy to work with. Comes in rolls. However, it's
solid - those 'door guards' are perforated and thus much
better for air circulation. Some have little round holes,
others a more 'snowflake' pattern.
On 23/01/2025 13:44, Rich wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:I got a 'page not found' error from the UK
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in- >>>> x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your >>>> delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel >>>> anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte
deine
Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
Lowes is a US company. So I could see them deciding to avoid all the
GDPR issues with cookies and consent by attempting to geoblock EU IP
addresses.
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel >>> anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine >>> Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
Lowes is a US company. So I could see them deciding to avoid all the
GDPR issues with cookies and consent by attempting to geoblock EU IP addresses.
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and figured >>>> out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of >>>> what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and drawn, so
that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected and started,
without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to bypass the
ports and do some light soldering to make sure all connectors are facing
the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The solution is neat and professional
On 22/01/2025 21:29, D wrote:
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
This path would work well for a rough proof of concept.
Except that the computer in front of me has 3D CAD and a decebnt slicer and the 3D printer is a meter away to my right, and I don't have a cold dark manky shed at all.
As for the print time, well what else is it going to do while we talk bollocks on Usenet?
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 22:29:50 +0100, D wrote:
Hmm, I don't think there's anything like that in sweden. There was a non
profit, who runs the .se domain, and they did have a maker space for a
couple of years, but I think they shut it down.
https://www.missoulapubliclibrary.org/home/spaces/makerspace/
Two of the issues that encourage me to vote are mil levies to fund the library and the Parks&Rec open space projects. The library has become much more than dusty shelves filled with books. I'm trying to remember the last physical book I checked out; I get digital content either through Amazon
or the libby app.
I think you can download stl files and then just upload them with some
kind of print software. That's what I would expect at least.
You're assuming someone has already designed the sort of item you want.
There are a lot of projects that do provide files for the components but they're not one-offs.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
This path would work well for a rough proof of concept.
Most things I do are rough proof of concepts. Putting concepts into production is usually boring.
Good stuff! I replicate between two countries for added resilience. Both
rsync and restic work great backing up to a tor hidden service. To speed
things up, the first backup can be done locally, and after that, only
deltas are sent from around the world.
That's how we do it.
Often you need just a few files from backup, ones somebody
oopsied, so huge zip archives can be a negative. OpenSSL
works fast for encryption and the Winders version has
almost exactly the same params. GPG is not so good in
the file-by-file thing because it has a relatively
long start-up time.
Have never used restic, I'll have to give it a look.
Another way to back up is to 'fork' every file write
to another, maybe even remote, drive. SoftRAID seems
to know just what's being written but I've never
figured out exactly how that works. The idea would
be to feed the full file path/name of what's just
been writ/modified into a (de-duplicated) list for
some daemon or whatever to dupe to yer destination -
local or cloud. This would be very quick and not bother
the other gazillion unchanged files.
On 1/22/25 4:34 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/01/2025 19:56, Rich wrote:
For SSD's, writes occur to an "erased" flash block (typically much
larger than a "disk sector" size used by the host) and given enough
writes over a short enough timeframe the SSD controller can run out of >>>> "pre-erased" blocks to use, and when that happens write speed slows
down to the rate that can be done when a "block erase" has to occur
before the actual writes can hit the media. Note that this "block
erase" can also invove moving any partially used data sectors out of
the block into another block, creating a "write amplification"
situation as well.
One of the best ways to gain speed and longevity is to buy an SSD that is >>> way larger than you need. So it always has empty blocks available.
And can do the block erases in background
Indutrial ssds do have spare space exactly in order to prolong lifetime. I >> think when ssds first came out, there was one vendor, STEC, if memory
serves, that manufactured vastly over engineered drives in the beginning.
They seemed to last forever. Then they learned of course, and started to
reduce quality and lifetime to industry standards and of course the price
as well.
Even today, a 'large' SSD is maybe 4tb while a large HDD is 16tb.
Tb-for-Tb the SSD is gonna be a lot more expensive too.
SO ... where do you NEED speed and where do you NEED economy/volume ?
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access "http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in- x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for
Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change your delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um Artikel anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte deine Versandadresse. "
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and
figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of >>>>> what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and
drawn, so that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected
and started, without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to bypass
the ports and do some light soldering to make sure all connectors are
facing the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
What is this? Do you have a photo to illustrate?
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The solution
is neat and professional
It is very powerful and professional looking, this is the truth!
On 1/23/25 10:06 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 13:44, Rich wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:I got a 'page not found' error from the UK
On 1/23/25 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 20:34:20 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
1000243353https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/
Strange, I get access denied.
Accessing from inside the USA ?
You don't have permission to access
"http://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-24-in-
x-3-ft-Aluminum-Sheet-Metal/1000243353" on this server.
I'm in Austria at the moment :) Or maybe Netherlands. A search for >>>>> Canakit on amazon.com has "We're showing you items that ship to
Netherlands. To see items that ship to a different country, change
your
delivery address. "
If I go to amazon.de I get
"Wir zeigen dir Artikel, die nach Rumänien geliefert werden. Um
Artikel
anzuzeigen, die in ein anderes Land geliefert werden, ändere bitte
deine
Versandadresse. "
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should
find photos and maybe a more local source.
These are often used on screen doors, the bottom
half, to keep people from putting their knee
through the screen. As said, can be very handy
for building odd things.
Lowes is a US company. So I could see them deciding to avoid all the
GDPR issues with cookies and consent by attempting to geoblock EU IP
addresses.
Can't help you.
Search Amazon for "perforated aluminum sheet" - good luck.
No print software needed. That is te 3D printers job.I think you can download stl files and then just upload them with some
kind of print software. That's what I would expect at least.
You're assuming someone has already designed the sort of item you want.
There are a lot of projects that do provide files for the components but
they're not one-offs.
This is the truth! I would expect someone, somewhere to have done 90% of
what I want to do. Tweaking the last 10% surely cannot be rocket science.
Or, if you're me, you shuffle out to the shed and paw through the
materials, adhesives, fasteners, and tools to see what you can whack
together.
This path would work well for a rough proof of concept.
Most things I do are rough proof of concepts. Putting concepts into
production is usually boring.
I like production! It has always earned me good money! =D
SO ... where do you NEED speed and where do you NEED economy/volume ?
For my use case I need maximum economy/volume, so SSDs are out.
Aluminum "flashing" - meant to tuck under roofing paper -
is very easy to work with. Comes in rolls. However, it's solid -
those 'door guards' are perforated and thus much better for air
circulation. Some have little round holes,
others a more 'snowflake' pattern.
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should find photos and
maybe a more local source.
On 23/01/2025 15:46, D wrote:
No print software needed. That is te 3D printers job.I think you can download stl files and then just upload them with some >>>> kind of print software. That's what I would expect at least.
STL files are 3D SURFACES made of triangles. A text based description of
a point in X,Y,Z coordinates,.
The conversion of that to a GERBER file,
On 23/01/2025 15:53, D wrote:
SO ... where do you NEED speed and where do you NEED economy/volume ?
For my use case I need maximum economy/volume, so SSDs are out.
Fair enough, but at least you are making in informed choice
On 23/01/2025 15:42, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and
figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling of >>>>>> what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and drawn, so >>>> that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected and started,
without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to bypass the >>>> ports and do some light soldering to make sure all connectors are facing >>>> the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
What is this? Do you have a photo to illustrate?
Oh lots.
For example a Pi5 micro HDMI to full size panel mount adapter
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235075133646
USB full size extenders are easy to source
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232137641153
As are micro USB to standard USB for Picos and Pi zeros
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235270913364
The supplier is in my local town!
I treat it as a hobby. Sod the cost, lets make it relaible and neat.
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The solution is
neat and professional
It is very powerful and professional looking, this is the truth!
The thing is, these days I prefer sitting at a computer than at a workbench
I discovered a site that will convert Corel Draw files to Gerbers as I hate the complex PCB design software - I always used tape on acetate back in the day.
I still have issues with the silkscreen legends (No text or complex corel shapes. Have to convert everything to simple curves) but the PCBS come out fine.
The great thing with PIs is that the outboard stuff is incredibly simple. You can take a Zero, mount it on a PCB add some relays and LEDS and transistors and there is almost no chance of getting it wrong...
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 03:10:08 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
You'd think they'd be more eager to SELL stuff ...
Anyway, kinda search on the description. You should find photos and
maybe a more local source.
The whole exercise was using Tor to attempt to access Lowe's web page. Apparently the reject requests coming from European IPs. The rest was
playing around with Tor to see how Amazon responds.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Good stuff! I replicate between two countries for added resilience.
Both rsync and restic work great backing up to a tor hidden service.
To speed things up, the first backup can be done locally, and after
that, only deltas are sent from around the world.
That's how we do it.
It is a powerful way to do it! =)
Often you need just a few files from backup, ones somebody
With restic you can do it from the client, or, you can mount the backup and navigate the file tree to get any files you like from the server. I've
tried the
server mount and it worked well, without any surprises. You can of
course do
full restores as well to a separate folder on the client and move what
you like.
oopsied, so huge zip archives can be a negative. OpenSSL
works fast for encryption and the Winders version has
almost exactly the same params. GPG is not so good in
the file-by-file thing because it has a relatively
long start-up time.
Have never used restic, I'll have to give it a look.
Let me know if you find any weaknesses.
Another way to back up is to 'fork' every file write
to another, maybe even remote, drive. SoftRAID seems
to know just what's being written but I've never
figured out exactly how that works. The idea would
be to feed the full file path/name of what's just
been writ/modified into a (de-duplicated) list for
some daemon or whatever to dupe to yer destination -
local or cloud. This would be very quick and not bother
the other gazillion unchanged files.
At the dawn of time we used to setup replication between storage
systems, then
snapshot the replica at various times per day, and for extra security,
write out
the snapshots to tape for off site storage. That was backups for real men!!
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that is where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and crappy soldering.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 21:59:58 +0100, D wrote:
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that is
where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and crappy
soldering.
I use solderless breadboards and Dupont wires when playing around. It's
quick and dirty, emphasis on the dirty part. The preformed jumpers are
neater but they're a bit of a PITA. I've seen videos of people pressing
them in with no problems but that ain't me.
I haven't done a PCB in decades and never was very good at it but that was before software to help with the routing. There's still a lot of overhead
for a DIY project.
https://www.instructables.com/DIY-PCB-using-Liquid-Photoresist/
That's the basic procedure I followed. For one-offs I used presensitized
PCBs rather than spreading it on myself. For volume I'd make a silkscreen
but then you're into a whole other art form. The artwork was tape and transfer symbols on mylar.
Then you move on to etching. I used ferric chloride which is fairly nasty stuff and tends to dye everything in sight yellow. Another choice was
sodium persulfate. I never used HCL and hydrogen peroxide. That seems to
have its fans.
Then if you finally wind up with a flawless PCB the fun begins, drilling a crap load of holes. A Dremel drill press helps. Depending on the board material, buy a lot of bits.
All that makes the online services look extremely attractive.
On 1/23/25 10:51 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Good stuff! I replicate between two countries for added resilience. Both >>>> rsync and restic work great backing up to a tor hidden service. To speed >>>> things up, the first backup can be done locally, and after that, only
deltas are sent from around the world.
That's how we do it.
It is a powerful way to do it! =)
Often you need just a few files from backup, ones somebody
With restic you can do it from the client, or, you can mount the backup and >> navigate the file tree to get any files you like from the server. I've
tried the
server mount and it worked well, without any surprises. You can of course
do
full restores as well to a separate folder on the client and move what you >> like.
oopsied, so huge zip archives can be a negative. OpenSSL
works fast for encryption and the Winders version has
almost exactly the same params. GPG is not so good in
the file-by-file thing because it has a relatively
long start-up time.
Have never used restic, I'll have to give it a look.
Let me know if you find any weaknesses.
Another way to back up is to 'fork' every file write
to another, maybe even remote, drive. SoftRAID seems
to know just what's being written but I've never
figured out exactly how that works. The idea would
be to feed the full file path/name of what's just
been writ/modified into a (de-duplicated) list for
some daemon or whatever to dupe to yer destination -
local or cloud. This would be very quick and not bother
the other gazillion unchanged files.
At the dawn of time we used to setup replication between storage systems,
then
snapshot the replica at various times per day, and for extra security,
write out
the snapshots to tape for off site storage. That was backups for real men!!
Heh heh ... then I guess I was a Real Man right up
until I retired :-)
Kept a 4-level scheme - main NAS, a mirror NAS that'd
back up the main twice a day, a Pi+hdd in another
building for the Most Important files pulled from
the mirror NAS in the morning and then finally
some cloud storage for a subset of the files. This
seemed un-killable.
Once had tapes, SLOW bastards, but that went by the
wayside. PRICED a decent tape drive lately ??? Kept a
subset on a disk in my personal box too - mostly
the high holy payroll stuff. Hey, priorities ! :-)
I think the new guys trust it all to Bill's Cloud.
They're gonna get a rude surprise someday ...
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/01/2025 15:46, D wrote:
No print software needed. That is te 3D printers job.I think you can download stl files and then just upload them with some >>>>> kind of print software. That's what I would expect at least.
STL files are 3D SURFACES made of triangles. A text based description of
a point in X,Y,Z coordinates,.
The conversion of that to a GERBER file,
You must mean GCODE.
Mine does need print software to interpret the Gcode and generate
build files that the printer itself can understand. But it's pretty
ancient as home 3D printers go (an original Makerbot Cupcake).
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 21:59:58 +0100, D wrote:
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that is
where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and crappy
soldering.
I use solderless breadboards and Dupont wires when playing around. It's
quick and dirty, emphasis on the dirty part. The preformed jumpers are
neater but they're a bit of a PITA. I've seen videos of people pressing
them in with no problems but that ain't me.
I haven't done a PCB in decades and never was very good at it but that was before software to help with the routing. There's still a lot of overhead
for a DIY project.
https://www.instructables.com/DIY-PCB-using-Liquid-Photoresist/
That's the basic procedure I followed. For one-offs I used presensitized
PCBs rather than spreading it on myself. For volume I'd make a silkscreen
but then you're into a whole other art form. The artwork was tape and transfer symbols on mylar.
Then you move on to etching. I used ferric chloride which is fairly nasty stuff and tends to dye everything in sight yellow. Another choice was
sodium persulfate. I never used HCL and hydrogen peroxide. That seems to
have its fans.
Then if you finally wind up with a flawless PCB the fun begins, drilling a crap load of holes. A Dremel drill press helps. Depending on the board material, buy a lot of bits.
All that makes the online services look extremely attractive.
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 15:42, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and >>>>>>> figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good
feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and
drawn, so that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected
and started, without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to
bypass the ports and do some light soldering to make sure all
connectors are facing the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
What is this? Do you have a photo to illustrate?
Oh lots.
For example a Pi5 micro HDMI to full size panel mount adapter
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235075133646
USB full size extenders are easy to source
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232137641153
As are micro USB to standard USB for Picos and Pi zeros
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235270913364
The supplier is in my local town!
I treat it as a hobby. Sod the cost, lets make it relaible and neat.
Ahh got it. Now I understand. Yes I see clear potential for neatness
with this approach!
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The solution
is neat and professional
It is very powerful and professional looking, this is the truth!
The thing is, these days I prefer sitting at a computer than at a
workbench
I discovered a site that will convert Corel Draw files to Gerbers as
I hate the complex PCB design software - I always used tape on acetate
back in the day.
I still have issues with the silkscreen legends (No text or complex
corel shapes. Have to convert everything to simple curves) but the
PCBS come out fine.
The great thing with PIs is that the outboard stuff is incredibly
simple. You can take a Zero, mount it on a PCB add some relays and
LEDS and transistors and there is almost no chance of getting it wrong...
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that is where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and crappy soldering.
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born liar... :-)
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
On 23/01/2025 20:59, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 15:42, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD and >>>>>>>> figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good feeling >>>>>>>> of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for
various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and drawn, >>>>>> so that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all connected and
started, without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to bypass >>>>>> the ports and do some light soldering to make sure all connectors are >>>>>> facing the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
What is this? Do you have a photo to illustrate?
Oh lots.
For example a Pi5 micro HDMI to full size panel mount adapter
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235075133646
USB full size extenders are easy to source
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232137641153
As are micro USB to standard USB for Picos and Pi zeros
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235270913364
The supplier is in my local town!
I treat it as a hobby. Sod the cost, lets make it relaible and neat.
Ahh got it. Now I understand. Yes I see clear potential for neatness with
this approach!
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The solution is >>>>> neat and professional
It is very powerful and professional looking, this is the truth!
The thing is, these days I prefer sitting at a computer than at a
workbench
I discovered a site that will convert Corel Draw files to Gerbers as I >>> hate the complex PCB design software - I always used tape on acetate back >>> in the day.
I still have issues with the silkscreen legends (No text or complex corel >>> shapes. Have to convert everything to simple curves) but the PCBS come >>> out fine.
The great thing with PIs is that the outboard stuff is incredibly simple. >>> You can take a Zero, mount it on a PCB add some relays and LEDS and
transistors and there is almost no chance of getting it wrong...
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that is
where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and crappy
soldering.
Exactly.
A Pi Zero or a Pi Pico is simply a 'component' on the board and you can solder it to it using either pins or directly.
Provided you make room for 'everything you *might* need on the board - no need to populate it all - you have a versatile breadboard for various things.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected,
is what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a
born liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for
it, and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to notice
that every politician on the planet said and promised things before the election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or
most, if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group,
voted for the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
This is the truth!
SMD is now sometimes the only way to get chips - and that means
careful 'oven' work. Super-pain. Basically PCB development is moving
out of the realm of human makers, everything's too tiny.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or
most,
if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
I haven't done a PCB in decades and never was very good at it but that was before software to help with the routing. There's still a lot of overhead
for a DIY project.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is
what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born
liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for it, and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to notice that every politician on the planet said and promised things before the
election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or most,
if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 19:21:47 +0100, D wrote:
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or
most,
if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
I would have preferred a Trumpish candidate with a longer attention span
but you go with what you've got. The Democrats have completely lost their way. As far as Republicans, I did not vote for GHW Bush, I did vote for GW Bush in 2000 before the idiot attacked the wrong countries, I did not vote for McCain or Romney. iow I am not a GOP voter. If people like Cheney or Romney bemoan the new direction they should know that the last time I was enthusiastic about voting for a Republican was Reagan.
If Trump can maintain his focus long enough to air drop illegal aliens
back to where they came from, banish DEI, and so forth I'll be happy.
We'll see.
On 24/01/2025 18:21, D wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is >>> what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born
liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for it, >> and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to notice that
every politician on the planet said and promised things before the
election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or most, >> if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
Trump is not a nice guy. I get that.
But what is happening is that a lot of people who have been riding the socialists/woke/liberal worldview for profit and career enhancement sense they are going to be out of a job and they have no other skills.
If we start listing all the things that Donald Trump probably doesn't give a fuck about it is a trillion dollar industry:
Climate Change
Renewable Energy
Hamas
The WEF
The WHO
The IPCC
The UN
The EU
Transgender ideology
Institutions that push racist agendas like, 'critical race theory'
...and that's just for starters.
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
This is the truth!
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 00:52:03 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
SMD is now sometimes the only way to get chips - and that means
careful 'oven' work. Super-pain. Basically PCB development is moving
out of the realm of human makers, everything's too tiny.
I was asleep at the switch and bought a couple of Pico without the
headers. I have the headers but the soldering task showed the limits of my vision and manual dexterity these days.
I've never done anything with surface mount other than look at them. 0.1" grids are as much as I want to deal with.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:I'm paying a lot less than that for Chinese... dirtypcbs.com
I haven't done a PCB in decades and never was very good at it but that was >> before software to help with the routing. There's still a lot of overhead
for a DIY project.
With the advent of Kicad <https://www.kicad.org/> and the low cost PCB
houses (mostly Chinese, but this one <https://oshpark.com/> claimed to
use US PCB fabs) it is trivial for a hobbiest to create a board (even a multilayer board) and have it fabricated for only a few dollars.
The price on oshpark.com for two layer boards is $5/squar inch, for
three copies of the board.
A six layer board is quoted at $15/square inch, again for three copies.
Quite affordable overall for a hobbiest, and no messing with etch
chemicals either.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is >>> what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born
liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for it, >> and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to notice that
every politician on the planet said and promised things before the
election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or most, >> if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
The explanation is simpler than that.
The average voters attention span (and memory depth) is about 1 hour. Anything a politician said (assuming it was reported accurately by the
press in the first place) older than 1 hour is all but forgotten.
And for a huge set of "average voters", the only thing they are upset
about at the moment is the "thing" their favorite news source told them
to be upset about at the moment. The instant their news source stops
telling them to be upset about item X and starts telling them to be
upset about item Y, they flip to being all upset about Y and X is
forgotten.
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/23/25 10:51 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Good stuff! I replicate between two countries for added resilience.
Both rsync and restic work great backing up to a tor hidden
service. To speed things up, the first backup can be done locally,
and after that, only deltas are sent from around the world.
That's how we do it.
It is a powerful way to do it! =)
Often you need just a few files from backup, ones somebody
With restic you can do it from the client, or, you can mount the
backup and
navigate the file tree to get any files you like from the server.
I've tried the
server mount and it worked well, without any surprises. You can of
course do
full restores as well to a separate folder on the client and move
what you like.
oopsied, so huge zip archives can be a negative. OpenSSL
works fast for encryption and the Winders version has
almost exactly the same params. GPG is not so good in
the file-by-file thing because it has a relatively
long start-up time.
Have never used restic, I'll have to give it a look.
Let me know if you find any weaknesses.
Another way to back up is to 'fork' every file write
to another, maybe even remote, drive. SoftRAID seems
to know just what's being written but I've never
figured out exactly how that works. The idea would
be to feed the full file path/name of what's just
been writ/modified into a (de-duplicated) list for
some daemon or whatever to dupe to yer destination -
local or cloud. This would be very quick and not bother
the other gazillion unchanged files.
At the dawn of time we used to setup replication between storage
systems, then
snapshot the replica at various times per day, and for extra
security, write out
the snapshots to tape for off site storage. That was backups for real
men!!
Heh heh ... then I guess I was a Real Man right up
until I retired :-)
This is the truth! Based on an analysis of your texts it does indeed
seem like you are very manly!
Kept a 4-level scheme - main NAS, a mirror NAS that'd
back up the main twice a day, a Pi+hdd in another
building for the Most Important files pulled from
the mirror NAS in the morning and then finally
some cloud storage for a subset of the files. This
seemed un-killable.
Once had tapes, SLOW bastards, but that went by the
wayside. PRICED a decent tape drive lately ??? Kept a
subset on a disk in my personal box too - mostly
the high holy payroll stuff. Hey, priorities ! :-)
I think the new guys trust it all to Bill's Cloud.
They're gonna get a rude surprise someday ...
I got an article published in a smaller newspaper the other day on this theme. What happens when Trump turns off the cloud for your country
because he doesn't like your politicians? Will the public sector and 99%
of the companies continue to work?
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I've been harping on it for years, but now that Trump is in power, it seems like the public was
finally ready for my message. ;)
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected,
is what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a
born liar... :-)
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 20:59, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/01/2025 15:42, D wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/01/2025 21:34, D wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
However, that assumes you've installed a program like FreeCAD >>>>>>>>> and figured
out how to use it to generate the stl files and have a good
feeling of
what you can and can't do with 3D printing.
I see a lot of Raspbery Pi NAS cases on Thingiverse already for >>>>>>>> various numbers and sizes of drives.
What I would ideally like, would be to get all cables fixed and
drawn, so that I could just slide in a Pi and get it all
connected and started, without any manual fiddling around.
I guess for that to work in a smooth way, perhaps I'd have to
bypass the ports and do some light soldering to make sure all
connectors are facing the back.
I spend the money for panel mounting adapter leads.
What is this? Do you have a photo to illustrate?
Oh lots.
For example a Pi5 micro HDMI to full size panel mount adapter
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235075133646
USB full size extenders are easy to source
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232137641153
As are micro USB to standard USB for Picos and Pi zeros
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235270913364
The supplier is in my local town!
I treat it as a hobby. Sod the cost, lets make it relaible and neat.
Ahh got it. Now I understand. Yes I see clear potential for neatness
with this approach!
It's not cheap, but the result is pretty pro looking.
Its the same reason I make up PCBS for all my projects. The
solution is neat and professional
It is very powerful and professional looking, this is the truth!
The thing is, these days I prefer sitting at a computer than at a
workbench
I discovered a site that will convert Corel Draw files to Gerbers
as I hate the complex PCB design software - I always used tape on
acetate back in the day.
I still have issues with the silkscreen legends (No text or complex
corel shapes. Have to convert everything to simple curves) but the
PCBS come out fine.
The great thing with PIs is that the outboard stuff is incredibly
simple. You can take a Zero, mount it on a PCB add some relays and
LEDS and transistors and there is almost no chance of getting it
wrong...
I've seen some tutorials utilizing the GPIO pins. I imagine that that
is where it would come in handy to avoid a birds nest of cables and
crappy soldering.
Exactly.
A Pi Zero or a Pi Pico is simply a 'component' on the board and you
can solder it to it using either pins or directly.
Provided you make room for 'everything you *might* need on the board -
no need to populate it all - you have a versatile breadboard for
various things.
Excellent! You are wise in the ways of science!
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 00:52:03 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
SMD is now sometimes the only way to get chips - and that means
careful 'oven' work. Super-pain. Basically PCB development is moving
out of the realm of human makers, everything's too tiny.
I was asleep at the switch and bought a couple of Pico without the
headers. I have the headers but the soldering task showed the limits of my vision and manual dexterity these days.
I've never done anything with surface mount other than look at them. 0.1" grids are as much as I want to deal with.
On 24/01/2025 20:27, Rich wrote:
The price on oshpark.com for two layer boards is $5/squar inch, forI'm paying a lot less than that for Chinese... dirtypcbs.com
three copies of the board.
A six layer board is quoted at $15/square inch, again for three copies.
Quite affordable overall for a hobbiest, and no messing with etch
chemicals either.
On 24/01/2025 18:21, D wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get*
elected, is what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say
that he is a born liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for
it, and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to
notice that every politician on the planet said and promised things
before the election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or
most, if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group,
voted for the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
Trump is not a nice guy. I get that.
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 19:21:47 +0100, D wrote:
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or
most,
if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for
the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
I would have preferred a Trumpish candidate with a longer attention span
but you go with what you've got.
The Democrats have completely lost their
way. As far as Republicans, I did not vote for GHW Bush, I did vote for GW Bush in 2000 before the idiot attacked the wrong countries, I did not vote for McCain or Romney. iow I am not a GOP voter. If people like Cheney or Romney bemoan the new direction they should know that the last time I was enthusiastic about voting for a Republican was Reagan.
If Trump can maintain his focus long enough to air drop illegal aliens
back to where they came from, banish DEI, and so forth I'll be happy.
We'll see.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
That says a lot about the efficacy of Republican politicians when they do manage to control the presidency and both houses. They're too polite.
There is only one way to handle Democrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKV87994GH4
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:38 +0100, D wrote:
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
My default 'none of the above' choice is the Libertarian candidate but the
LP outdid themselves this year with Chase Oliver. The state LP maintained radio silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Oliver
When Trump spoke at the LP convention he said something about the party getting its usual 3%; he was being very kind. They did get 3.28% in 2016
but they are typically less than 1% on national elections.
I pay more attention to the House, Senate and local races. The last time
the state went to a Democratic president was 1992. That wasn't out of any love for Clinton; rather Perot siphoned off GHW Bush's votes.
On 23/01/2025 20:22, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Mine does need print software to interpret the Gcode and generateWell mine (creality K1) seems to understand the GCODE directly, but the slicer 'knows' about the machine, its commands and the plastic
build files that the printer itself can understand. But it's pretty
ancient as home 3D printers go (an original Makerbot Cupcake).
materials, so it pretty much does all of that.
I think modern printers are very much better than they used to be.Its
now out of 'unstable' and more into 'testing' with their onboard code
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:38 +0100, D wrote:
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
My default 'none of the above' choice is the Libertarian candidate but the
LP outdid themselves this year with Chase Oliver. The state LP maintained radio silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Oliver
When Trump spoke at the LP convention he said something about the party getting its usual 3%; he was being very kind. They did get 3.28% in 2016
but they are typically less than 1% on national elections.
I pay more attention to the House, Senate and local races. The last time
the state went to a Democratic president was 1992. That wasn't out of any love for Clinton; rather Perot siphoned off GHW Bush's votes.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
That says a lot about the efficacy of Republican politicians when they do manage to control the presidency and both houses. They're too polite.
There is only one way to handle Democrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKV87994GH4
I think the new guys trust it all to Bill's Cloud.
They're gonna get a rude surprise someday ...
I got an article published in a smaller newspaper the other day on this
theme. What happens when Trump turns off the cloud for your country because >> he doesn't like your politicians? Will the public sector and 99% of the
companies continue to work?
I don't THINK he'd do that - Musk would likely talk
him out of it - but he MIGHT. Of course Vlad/Xi can
produce the same effect for imperialist reasons, but
even worse - nothing left to 'turn on' again, at
least in a usefully timely fashion.
IMHO, 'cloud' is just too vulnerable to too many
hostile interests. Should NEVER be your main
backup, or working, repository. Can all go bye-bye
tomorrow. A local NAS is far safer.
But the people lobbying yer pointy-haired bosses
will say the exact opposite ....
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I've been harping on it for
years, but now that Trump is in power, it seems like the public was finally >> ready for my message. ;)
Even if he'd never do it - the potential THREAT is
enough to Change Thinking ... hopefully towards
the smarter.
On 1/24/25 6:46 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is
what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born
liar... :-)
"Politician" ...
I'd trust Trump a little more than the long-career pols,
but he's still a politician.
And promises -vs- deliveries are PART of that.
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
Putin is a hyper-dangerous individual with
a gigaton of nukes at his immediate command.
Best to NOT group him in with USA/EU leaders.
On 1/24/25 1:57 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 18:21, D wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is >>>> what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born >>>> liar... :-)
Absolutely amazing! I cannot believe that people are still falling for it, >>> and also, how they can be so upset about Trump, yet, fail to notice that >>> every politician on the planet said and promised things before the
election, that were not delivered after the election.
Either peoples memories with respect to Trump are very selective, or most, >>> if not all people, except perhaps the ones reading this group, voted for >>> the first time in their lives this election. very mysterioues!
Trump is not a nice guy. I get that.
He's a hard-ass ... but I still trust him to
have better motives than most career pols.
Yea, yea, his personality is kinda unsufferable
sometimes, but that's not so unusual amongst
the strong leaders & crusaders and such. To
do 'Big' things you sometimes need 'Big' people.
There's a reason he had the Churchill bust restored
to his office inside about 5 minutes. Joe had shoved
it off to some dusty closet ...
We've SEEN how the WokieCom thing worked out - just
horribly - so ... give Trump a chance.
Potential problem, to rebuild you often have to
tear down ... can he do both at the same time or
will there be too much chaos ?
I'm not gonna worship any politician. If they
are doing good, then good, otherwise they need
to be shoved rudely off to the sidelines.
On 1/24/25 7:55 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:38 +0100, D wrote:
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
My default 'none of the above' choice is the Libertarian candidate but the >> LP outdid themselves this year with Chase Oliver. The state LP maintained
radio silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Oliver
When Trump spoke at the LP convention he said something about the party
getting its usual 3%; he was being very kind. They did get 3.28% in 2016
but they are typically less than 1% on national elections.
I pay more attention to the House, Senate and local races. The last time
the state went to a Democratic president was 1992. That wasn't out of any
love for Clinton; rather Perot siphoned off GHW Bush's votes.
The Libertarian Party has SOME useful ideas, a useful
way of looking at individual/state powers.
Where it fails is in coming out of the 18th century.
These aren't the days of Jefferson's "gentleman
farmers" anymore. Near-anarchy will now IMPLODE
like a supernova. There's no more 'civic consensus'
anymore, no underlying idea of How Things Ought
To Work. More like 300 million maniacs ....
I'm actually registered as LP. A sort of 'protest'.
Never VOTED for their people though and probably
never will.
There's some stuff that HAS to be done for the
greater good. Wrecking Wokie is one of them.
I think Trump is the ONLY one who can do that
at this time.
So, let's suffer with him.
On 1/24/25 6:46 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected,
is what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a
born liar... :-)
"Politician" ...
I'd trust Trump a little more than the long-career pols,
but he's still a politician.
And promises -vs- deliveries are PART of that.
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
Putin is a hyper-dangerous individual with
a gigaton of nukes at his immediate command.
Best to NOT group him in with USA/EU leaders.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 24/01/2025 20:27, Rich wrote:
The price on oshpark.com for two layer boards is $5/squar inch, forI'm paying a lot less than that for Chinese... dirtypcbs.com
three copies of the board.
A six layer board is quoted at $15/square inch, again for three copies.
Quite affordable overall for a hobbiest, and no messing with etch
chemicals either.
It might be different sending to more populous countries, but I
find the postage cost dwarfs the manufacture cost from Chinese
PCB fabs (in a desperate attempt to touch on the relevent topic,
I'll say it costs "an ARM and a leg"). You could combine boards
for multiple projects to save that, but then you find you stuffed
something up and need to pay full wack on postage of the revised
design.
I actually quite like messing with the etch chemicals, so tend
to prefer that. In fact it got me in the mind to try developing
film, but I've been putting that off for many years and of course
now finding stores that still stock darkroom supplies has become
a new obstacle. Still definitely on my to-do list though.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/01/2025 20:22, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Mine does need print software to interpret the Gcode and generateWell mine (creality K1) seems to understand the GCODE directly, but the
build files that the printer itself can understand. But it's pretty
ancient as home 3D printers go (an original Makerbot Cupcake).
slicer 'knows' about the machine, its commands and the plastic
materials, so it pretty much does all of that.
Maybe. You could check the output and see - Gcode is text based,
eg. this tiny snippet from a print I didn't get around to doing today:
G1 X-26.981 Y-1.748 Z3.36 F6240.0
M101
G1 X-20.752 Y-1.748 Z3.36 F3970.1225
G1 X-20.752 Y1.748 Z3.36 F3978.0
G1 X-27.748 Y1.748 Z3.36 F3844.7845
G1 X-27.748 Y-1.748 Z3.36 F3978.0
G1 X-27.286 Y-1.748 Z3.36 F3978.0
G1 X-26.981 Y-1.748 Z3.36 F3978.0
M103
G codes are posisitioning, M codes turn things on/off (the
extruder in this case). You can write it yourself like to use the
build platform as an agitater for etching PCBs in a tub on top,
which I tried but it turns out I enjoy doing the agitation manaully
more anyway (and less risk of splashing etchant on my 3D printer,
though it's mostly wood).
Slicers do need some machine-specific info even just to make the
Gcode. Hence I can't use the new ones with mine. I did look into adding/hacking a driver (or whatever they call it) in Slic3r for
the Cupcake, but it's fixing something that ain't broke and I don't
like to touch C++ code if I can avoid it.
I think modern printers are very much better than they used to be.Its
now out of 'unstable' and more into 'testing' with their onboard code
Well I've learnt the bugs pretty well by now and they're just like
old friends. Plus it's nice with the Cupcake that everything's open
source so it's been easy for me to modify the electronics a bit
(and someone so inclined could even fiddle at those bugs in the
firmware).
I am not convinced. I believe man is more good than bad. I also believeLook, it all goes back to teh basic idea of land as property and not as
that the near-anarchy implosion is due to politics manipulating people
into becoming enemies. Remove the puppet masters, and the puppets
actually get along way better in their natural state, than anyone would
ever want us to suspect.
You see... by perpetrating the myth that men without leaders kill each
other instantly, the leaders and the state benefits. It's their only justification. If people thought that, we're basically nice guys, the
state would eventually wither away.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:Libertarianism was very much the province of the soft right - and used
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:38 +0100, D wrote:
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
My default 'none of the above' choice is the Libertarian candidate but
the
LP outdid themselves this year with Chase Oliver. The state LP maintained
radio silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Oliver
When Trump spoke at the LP convention he said something about the party
getting its usual 3%; he was being very kind. They did get 3.28% in 2016
but they are typically less than 1% on national elections.
I pay more attention to the House, Senate and local races. The last time
the state went to a Democratic president was 1992. That wasn't out of any
love for Clinton; rather Perot siphoned off GHW Bush's votes.
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for
them once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or
so in those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed
much interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion club.
On 25/01/2025 05:53, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/24/25 6:46 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/01/2025 09:27, D wrote:
This generated a small storm on my linkedin. I'v
It's amazing how people believe that what Trump said to *get* elected, is >>> what he will do now he is, and in the same breath say that he is a born
liar... :-)
"Politician" ...
I'd trust Trump a little more than the long-career pols,
but he's still a politician.
And promises -vs- deliveries are PART of that.
Putin seems to have fallen into that trap....
Putin is a hyper-dangerous individual with
a gigaton of nukes at his immediate command.
Best to NOT group him in with USA/EU leaders.
Putin is exactly what the EU would like to be, if it could entirely remove that pesky democracy thing and have an army of its own.
On 25/01/2025 07:10, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
There's some stuff that HAS to be done for the
greater good. Wrecking Wokie is one of them.
I think Trump is the ONLY one who can do that
at this time.
So, let's suffer with him.
We voted in Maggie thatcher to rid ourselves of the woke of the time - unions.
After that was done her party stabbed her in the back and the good ole boys took over and made a total mess.
On 25/01/2025 10:34, D wrote:
I am not convinced. I believe man is more good than bad. I also believeLook, it all goes back to teh basic idea of land as property and not as the commons.
that the near-anarchy implosion is due to politics manipulating people into >> becoming enemies. Remove the puppet masters, and the puppets actually get
along way better in their natural state, than anyone would ever want us to >> suspect.
Bunch of peasants cut down forest, plant crops, herd animals, bunch of hinter gatherers comes along and steals crops and takes cattle. All that hard work down the drain.
Bunch of peasants have a meeting., Decide to grow food for a few guys who will train to be good and waving spears at hunter gathererss..
Bad harvest, men with spears decide to steal from next door tribe.
Worse harvest, Men with spears decide to steal from OWN tribe. Justify by sating 'otherwise other tribe will do it and at least we are like you'
I give you Russia today.
You see... by perpetrating the myth that men without leaders kill each
other instantly, the leaders and the state benefits. It's their only
justification. If people thought that, we're basically nice guys, the state >> would eventually wither away.
So long as you have any sort of civilisation at all, you have to have organisation in which personal freedoms are sacrificed for the good of all, and some people with spears are paid to stop other people with spears taking over. . Its a delicate balance as to when the people say to the people with spears. You are such a bunch of total cunts, we will let the other lot take over'
Democracy is a 'civilised' way to achieve this without (too much) bloodshed...
The communist dream of a society with no masters is only possible in a hunter gatherer type scenario. In fact the whole of Marxism is in the end a romantic yearning for the time when no on owned anything more complicated than a spear and a firestick. Which is why that is generally the level to which people descend under full communism.
On 25/01/2025 09:44, D wrote:
Libertarianism was very much the province of the soft right - and used to be what the Tory party mostly were.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:38 +0100, D wrote:
When you did not vote for them, did you then not vote at all, or for
some unpopular candidate who's name never made it to europe?
My default 'none of the above' choice is the Libertarian candidate but the >>> LP outdid themselves this year with Chase Oliver. The state LP maintained >>> radio silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chase_Oliver
When Trump spoke at the LP convention he said something about the party
getting its usual 3%; he was being very kind. They did get 3.28% in 2016 >>> but they are typically less than 1% on national elections.
I pay more attention to the House, Senate and local races. The last time >>> the state went to a Democratic president was 1992. That wasn't out of any >>> love for Clinton; rather Perot siphoned off GHW Bush's votes.
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for them >> once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or so in
those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed much
interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion club.
But at some point the entrenched elites decided that people should not really have freedom or they (the elite) might get 'replaced'
Which is why we now have a third party topping the polls for the first time in a 100 years
The idea of a society based on liberty and capitalism is however not a
dream, but in fact a concrete and realistic way to structure society
that will benefit everyone the most, globally, based on extrapolating
from where we are today in a logical, spiritual and reasonable manner.
Libertarianism was very much the province of the soft right - and used
to be what the Tory party mostly were.
I would say, in eurospeak, that you are talking about liberalism. Libertarianism was invented to escape from the left apropriating the ism liberalism.
But at some point the entrenched elites decided that people should not
really have freedom or they (the elite) might get 'replaced'
Which is why we now have a third party topping the polls for the first
time in a 100 years
Excellent!
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an
ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
On 1/24/25 10:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
That says a lot about the efficacy of Republican politicians when they
do manage to control the presidency and both houses. They're too
polite. There is only one way to handle Democrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKV87994GH4
Well ...
In any case looks like Trump is out to just THRASH them properly. I
think only Trump can DO that.
There was one design pkg - I think it's now been redone several times
and sells as "Altium" - which was easy and intuitive. Some Linux
freebies now exist which are kinda the same, but maybe not quite as
intuitive. Some try to be TOO helpful in routing the wire traces -
very annoying.
Wanna do it MY way !
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for
them once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or
so in those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed
much interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion
club.
As with Linux desktops, its not my hobby per se, its a tool for me to
use in my hobbies.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, 'cloud' is just too vulnerable to too many
hostile interests. Should NEVER be your main
backup, or working, repository. Can all go bye-bye
tomorrow. A local NAS is far safer.
You are a wise man! I agree! It can be used as a complement,
but never your only one.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Very civil! I was thinking more along the lines of witch hunts. You
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
That says a lot about the efficacy of Republican politicians when they
do manage to control the presidency and both houses. They're too
polite. There is only one way to handle Democrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKV87994GH4
could always burn them! Or see if they float or not. ;)
On 25/01/2025 17:34, D wrote:
The idea of a society based on liberty and capitalism is however not a
dream, but in fact a concrete and realistic way to structure society that
will benefit everyone the most, globally, based on extrapolating from where >> we are today in a logical, spiritual and reasonable manner.
It works in the context of of a society that creates wealth through mining or manufacturing which requires large capital, and it becomes fair only if the people themselves are a necessary part of that wealth creation.
And that is the problem. We dont need labour any more, We don't need clerical work, we dont need skilled labour and In e.g. Russia they dont need anybody at all to pump oil and gas . So why not use them up trying to get access to more oil and gas?
And with AI, we wont need coders anymore :-)
The world will naturally gravitate towards mafia states, where thugs control the population and take all the wealth.
Supported by a thin layer of technocrats who can make the machines dance to tunes...
On 25/01/2025 17:35, D wrote:
Libertarianism was very much the province of the soft right - and used to >>> be what the Tory party mostly were.
I would say, in eurospeak, that you are talking about liberalism.
Libertarianism was invented to escape from the left apropriating the ism
liberalism.
But at some point the entrenched elites decided that people should not
really have freedom or they (the elite) might get 'replaced'
Which is why we now have a third party topping the polls for the first
time in a 100 years
Excellent!
I think its worth while looking at the philosophy behind libertarianism - essentially it says that the people most able to make the correct choices in society are in fact the people, and that government is a parasite that is tolerated only insofar as it performs a clearly useful function.
The free market is an essentially part of all this, to allow buyers and sellers to set their own value on products and services, and thereby incentivise production of 'what people want' as opposed to the socialist principle of mandating production of what the elite think they ought to have. Socialism tends to a big state run by technocrats who think they know what is best for you and will prevent you from doing anything else.
Libertarianism is run by a government with the tacit consent of the people to prevent only those things that a majority of people clearly feel are wrong. Socialism always seeks to form the future. Libertarianism always seeks to preserve what has worked well in the past,and is reactive, not proactive. Libertarianism listens to what the people *are* thinking
Socialism tells the people what they *ought to be* thinking
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:44:53 +0100, D wrote:
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for
them once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or
so in those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed
much interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion
club.
The LP in the US tends to be a mixed bag of nuts that are extremely naive about their fellow Amurricans. They manage to maintain ballot access in
this state.
That's another impediment to third parties. Ballot access is determined
state by state and often is a Catch 22. If you received a certain number
of votes you will be on the next ballot. If you have never been on the ballot, start collecting signatures and hope for the best.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 02:10:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an
ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
It will be interesting to see how Vance develops. Presumably he will be a candidate in 2028 and should take a very active role as well as cementing
his own crew of allies.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:46:41 +0100, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Very civil! I was thinking more along the lines of witch hunts. You
Oh I think that's only democrat voters.
Republican voters have been upset about the same things for - well
years.
That says a lot about the efficacy of Republican politicians when they
do manage to control the presidency and both houses. They're too
polite. There is only one way to handle Democrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKV87994GH4
could always burn them! Or see if they float or not. ;)
Oh, I think there will be some witch hunts. The Republicans have whined
about Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals' for years. Maybe it's time for them
to read and apply it. The hell with 'conservative'.
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, 'cloud' is just too vulnerable to too many
hostile interests. Should NEVER be your main
backup, or working, repository. Can all go bye-bye
tomorrow. A local NAS is far safer.
You are a wise man! I agree! It can be used as a complement,
but never your only one.
It's great for distribution, but not storage.
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000 coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
What goes around comes around. I would not cry if a few democrats ended
up in prison or in long drawn out legal processes that publicly
humiliated them.
It would in fact make me believe that perhaps there's some kind of
justice after all.
I think Trump has a few people he would like to get back at, pardon or
no pardon.
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
That being said however, it is definitely not a smooth upward curve of progress. The curve is very erratic, although I am a firm believer in a
long term positive trend.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/01/2025 17:34, D wrote:
The idea of a society based on liberty and capitalism is however not
a dream, but in fact a concrete and realistic way to structure
society that will benefit everyone the most, globally, based on
extrapolating from where we are today in a logical, spiritual and
reasonable manner.
It works in the context of of a society that creates wealth through
mining or manufacturing which requires large capital, and it becomes
fair only if the people themselves are a necessary part of that wealth
creation.
And that is the problem. We dont need labour any more, We don't need
clerical work, we dont need skilled labour and In e.g. Russia they
dont need anybody at all to pump oil and gas . So why not use them up
trying to get access to more oil and gas?
And with AI, we wont need coders anymore :-)
The world will naturally gravitate towards mafia states, where thugs
control the population and take all the wealth.
I disagree. Yes, the world now is horrible, but we've never been more
free or had it better in the entire history of man.
Sometimes you're so depressing! I thought I was supposed to be the misanthrope! ;)
That being said however, it is definitely not a smooth upward curve of progress. The curve is very erratic, although I am a firm believer in a
long term positive trend.
Supported by a thin layer of technocrats who can make the machines
dance to tunes...
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 02:10:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an >>> ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
It will be interesting to see how Vance develops. Presumably he will be a
candidate in 2028 and should take a very active role as well as cementing
his own crew of allies.
I wonder if Trump will have any inclination at all to do some kind of
hand over of the MAGA movement, or if he will just move on and let Vance
do what he can?
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:44:53 +0100, D wrote:
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for
them once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or
so in those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed >>> much interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion
club.
The LP in the US tends to be a mixed bag of nuts that are extremely naive
about their fellow Amurricans. They manage to maintain ballot access in
this state.
That's another impediment to third parties. Ballot access is determined
state by state and often is a Catch 22. If you received a certain number
of votes you will be on the next ballot. If you have never been on the
ballot, start collecting signatures and hope for the best.
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000 coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, 'cloud' is just too vulnerable to too many
hostile interests. Should NEVER be your main
backup, or working, repository. Can all go bye-bye
tomorrow. A local NAS is far safer.
You are a wise man! I agree! It can be used as a complement,
but never your only one.
It's great for distribution, but not storage.
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
This is the truth!
I had my class of students repeat that sentence 5 times two weeks ago! =D
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:38:42 +0100, D wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
There was much discussion over which state would be the target with New Hampshire and Wyoming on the short list. I didn't expect success when New Hampshire was chosen. I lived there until 1988 and while it's the best you can do on the east coast it's surrounded by a sea of liberals.
Ken Royce championed Wyoming and wrote a novel, 'Molôn Labé!' about an attempt to take over Wyoming. I think that scenario would have had more success but libertarians do like their creature comforts. They want
freedom while retaining the ability to get their soy milk double grande cappuccino from Starbucks.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 20:01:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
I am amused by the concept of a 'private cloud'. Oh, you mean we should
run our own servers like we've been doing for the last 40 years and hang a sign on the server room door that says 'cloud'?
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:40:22 +0100, D wrote:
What goes around comes around. I would not cry if a few democrats ended
up in prison or in long drawn out legal processes that publicly
humiliated them.
It would in fact make me believe that perhaps there's some kind of
justice after all.
I think Trump has a few people he would like to get back at, pardon or
no pardon.
"17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight
of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live
peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather
give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”
says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Romans 12:17-21 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/? search=Romans%2012&version=NKJV
The conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity was a long process
and I don't think it ever entirely took. The lord can do whatever he wants
to but in the meantime herd them all into the Democratic headquarters and
set fire to it. Unlike Flosi don't let the women leave; they are worse
than the men.
It can be done in the USA as well, indeed the rapid rise of the
'southern red states' is a more general example. As to why it's
rarely so deliberate, well,
people don't like to pull up stakes and move.
On 25/01/2025 10:34, D wrote:
I am not convinced. I believe man is more good than bad. I alsoLook, it all goes back to teh basic idea of land as property and not as
believe that the near-anarchy implosion is due to politics
manipulating people into becoming enemies. Remove the puppet masters,
and the puppets actually get along way better in their natural state,
than anyone would ever want us to suspect.
the commons.
Bunch of peasants cut down forest, plant crops, herd animals, bunch of
hinter gatherers comes along and steals crops and takes cattle. All that
hard work down the drain.
Bunch of peasants have a meeting., Decide to grow food for a few guys
who will train to be good and waving spears at hunter gathererss..
Bad harvest, men with spears decide to steal from next door tribe.
Worse harvest, Men with spears decide to steal from OWN tribe. Justify
by sating 'otherwise other tribe will do it and at least we are like you'
I give you Russia today.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 21:32:27 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It can be done in the USA as well, indeed the rapid rise of the
'southern red states' is a more general example. As to why it's
rarely so deliberate, well,
people don't like to pull up stakes and move.
The Republicans prided themselves on their 'southern strategy' but they couldn't have pulled it off without the help, however unforeseen, of the blacks. There's nothing like a series of race riots in major US cities to
get peoples attention. Point at LBJ and his civil rights legislation and
the former white Democrats are going to be changing their registration.
The Democrats have managed to do it to themselves again. You can onlyI've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
promote DEI, ignore illegal immigration, promote transgenders to public positions, ignore a senile executive and his family of grifters, and the
like before the slumbering masses say 'Okay, that's enough.'
I'm not religious. Vengeance is OK sometimes and
don't count on sky-gods to do it for you.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 02:10:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an >>> ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
It will be interesting to see how Vance develops. Presumably he will be a
candidate in 2028 and should take a very active role as well as cementing
his own crew of allies.
I wonder if Trump will have any inclination at all to do some kind of
hand over of the MAGA movement, or if he will just move on and let Vance
do what he can?
As for the "thin layer of technocrats" mentioned below,
won't need to BE any within maybe 50 years or so - the
"AI" will manage everything. This is the monster we
have made .......
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 20:01:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
I am amused by the concept of a 'private cloud'. Oh, you mean we should
run our own servers like we've been doing for the last 40 years and hang a sign on the server room door that says 'cloud'?
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:40:22 +0100, D wrote:
What goes around comes around. I would not cry if a few democrats ended
up in prison or in long drawn out legal processes that publicly
humiliated them.
It would in fact make me believe that perhaps there's some kind of
justice after all.
I think Trump has a few people he would like to get back at, pardon or
no pardon.
"17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight
of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live
peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather
give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”
says the Lord. 20 Therefore
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Romans 12:17-21 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/? search=Romans%2012&version=NKJV
The conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity was a long process
and I don't think it ever entirely took. The lord can do whatever he wants
to but in the meantime herd them all into the Democratic headquarters and
set fire to it. Unlike Flosi don't let the women leave; they are worse
than the men.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:38:42 +0100, D wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
There was much discussion over which state would be the target with New Hampshire and Wyoming on the short list. I didn't expect success when New Hampshire was chosen. I lived there until 1988 and while it's the best you can do on the east coast it's surrounded by a sea of liberals.
Ken Royce championed Wyoming and wrote a novel, 'Molôn Labé!' about an attempt to take over Wyoming. I think that scenario would have had more success but libertarians do like their creature comforts. They want
freedom while retaining the ability to get their soy milk double grande cappuccino from Starbucks.
On 1/25/25 5:37 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 02:10:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an >>>> ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
It will be interesting to see how Vance develops. Presumably he will be a >>> candidate in 2028 and should take a very active role as well as cementing >>> his own crew of allies.
I wonder if Trump will have any inclination at all to do some kind of hand >> over of the MAGA movement, or if he will just move on and let Vance do what >> he can?
Vance is "in development". However he's clearly an
"ordinary human" and does not have "it" like Trump,
that special overwhelming magnetic personality.
People like Trump are rare. This may be a good thing ...
On 1/25/25 5:38 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:44:53 +0100, D wrote:
Very interesting. There is a libertarian party in sweden. I voted for
them once or twice in my youth, I think they got 3000 and 3800 votes or >>>> so in those elections, and then I never bothered since they never showed >>>> much interest in actually growing, but was more a kind of discussion
club.
The LP in the US tends to be a mixed bag of nuts that are extremely naive >>> about their fellow Amurricans. They manage to maintain ballot access in
this state.
That's another impediment to third parties. Ballot access is determined
state by state and often is a Catch 22. If you received a certain number >>> of votes you will be on the next ballot. If you have never been on the
ballot, start collecting signatures and hope for the best.
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
It can be done in the USA as well, indeed the rapid
rise of the 'southern red states' is a more general
example. As to why it's rarely so deliberate, well,
people don't like to pull up stakes and move.
On 1/25/25 7:00 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:38:42 +0100, D wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_Project
There was much discussion over which state would be the target with New
Hampshire and Wyoming on the short list. I didn't expect success when New
Hampshire was chosen. I lived there until 1988 and while it's the best you >> can do on the east coast it's surrounded by a sea of liberals.
Ken Royce championed Wyoming and wrote a novel, 'Molôn Labé!' about an
attempt to take over Wyoming. I think that scenario would have had more
success but libertarians do like their creature comforts. They want
freedom while retaining the ability to get their soy milk double grande
cappuccino from Starbucks.
Wyoming is, alas, land-locked and doesn't even
border on another country. Even if the WILL is
there, the reality won't work out. They'd have
to form an alliance/union with Idaho because at
least IT borders on Canada (for better or worse).
Anyway, kinda-strict "Libertarianism" can't work
in the 21st century, really not even in the 20th.
Things are just WAY too complicated/interconnected
these days and people are NOT Jefferson's
"gentleman farmers" despite lots of wishing.
SMALL-'L' libertarianism, that can still kinda work
and is a good GUIDE regardless. I'd say that's best
in line with the thinking of The Founders about
rights and the distribution of political power.
On 1/25/25 7:09 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 23:40:22 +0100, D wrote:
What goes around comes around. I would not cry if a few democrats ended
up in prison or in long drawn out legal processes that publicly
humiliated them.
It would in fact make me believe that perhaps there's some kind of
justice after all.
I think Trump has a few people he would like to get back at, pardon or
no pardon.
"17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight
of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live
peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather
give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”
says the Lord. 20 Therefore
I'm not religious. Vengeance is OK sometimes and
don't count on sky-gods to do it for you.
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
Nah - you just give him the strength to stick
a knife in your back ......
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Romans 12:17-21 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?
search=Romans%2012&version=NKJV
While I can see what they're aiming at, it very
rarely works out in real life with real people.
Best intentions .....
The conversion of the Germanic peoples to Christianity was a long process
and I don't think it ever entirely took. The lord can do whatever he wants >> to but in the meantime herd them all into the Democratic headquarters and
set fire to it. Unlike Flosi don't let the women leave; they are worse
than the men.
Harsh.
Hmmmmmmmmm ... ever see a late 60s hippie-paranoia movie
called "Wild In The Streets". Shelly Winters was great
as the Mom From Hell. Even had an incredibly young
Richard Pryor on the cast. The Youth engineered a govt
take-over and put all the old square people into
'retirement camps' and kept 'em dosed on LSD :-)
Ah :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fozufGZubYc
On 1/25/25 5:41 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, 'cloud' is just too vulnerable to too many
hostile interests. Should NEVER be your main
backup, or working, repository. Can all go bye-bye
tomorrow. A local NAS is far safer.
You are a wise man! I agree! It can be used as a complement,
but never your only one.
It's great for distribution, but not storage.
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
This is the truth!
I had my class of students repeat that sentence 5 times two weeks ago! =D
Very good ! :-)
Of course STRICTLY it's a bunch of redundant connected
distributed other people's computers - which SEEMS more
safe. Of course if Vlad's boyz have an in ... and
they do .......
Did they tell you those multiple M$ cloud blackouts
late last year were due to "updates" or something ?
I highly HIGHLY doubt that ... more like Vlad's boyz
just practicing. Xi's boyz were practicing on the
US phone systems just this month.
Trump has the "Diet Coke" button on his desk. Vlad
and Xi probably have the big red "Internet Doom"
button on theirs. We created this situation and
eventually it's gonna BITE.
I figure only 30 days of no/crap net/cell and all
western economies would implode. The olde-tyme
backups no longer exist and the people who would
know how to use them - better raid the rest homes
and bring a crate of whatever drugs they used
to pep-up Biden for speeches ......
On 1/25/25 7:12 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 20:01:55 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
As the T-shirt says:
There is no Cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
I am amused by the concept of a 'private cloud'. Oh, you mean we should
run our own servers like we've been doing for the last 40 years and hang a >> sign on the server room door that says 'cloud'?
Hey - you can then charge 5 times as much ! :-)
I think MAGA has already done its job. It will be abandoned and
another emotional meme will take over.
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats will develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
On 26/01/2025 03:21, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I'm not religious. Vengeance is OK sometimes and
don't count on sky-gods to do it for you.
First ask yourself what is the point of vengeance?
We have just had a conviction for a horrific stabbinmg spree of young girls by a guy who is clearly off his rocker.
Since he wasn't quiet 18 yrs old he cant have a 'whole life' sentence.
The media are all spinning their moral compasses like roulette wheels in an attempt to come up with 'the right punishment'..
I cant help thinking that nothing is going to bring three young girls back, not even Jesus, and only three things really count.
The first is making sure he never does it again. Absent the death penalty that means sticking him in prison (without special treatment?) and waiting for the other prisoners to do him in. This has been done.
The second is trying to work out why a guy with a history of violence and mental weirdness who was even reported to the authorities by his OWN FAMILY wasn't picked up. sooner.
The final issue, is is there anything that could be done to make the families of those children feel even slightly better?
Personally if they want to personally stab him to death I wouldn't give a fuck. The guy placed himself beyond societies civilising influences. He deserves to understand the implications of that. His victims should be allowed to set the sentence as long as they carry it out themselves.
One may have sympathy for the Devil, but that doesn't mean not slicing his jugular as an act of societal benefit, if given the chance...
On 25/01/2025 22:37, D wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 02:10:30 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Not much out there that's actually "Trump-ish"
except Trump. Ted Cruz is KINDA in the same mindset but is more of an >>>> ideologue and less interested in finding any happy medium.
It will be interesting to see how Vance develops. Presumably he will be a >>> candidate in 2028 and should take a very active role as well as cementing >>> his own crew of allies.
I wonder if Trump will have any inclination at all to do some kind of hand >> over of the MAGA movement, or if he will just move on and let Vance do what >> he can?
I think MAGA has already done its job. It will be abandoned and another emotional meme will take over.
I think that life in prison is actually a worse punishment than death.
And now I'm thinking _actual_ life in prison.
Personally, I'd much rather prefer to be executed in a quick and
painless way, than having to be locked up for many decades.
So I view life in prison as the ultimate torture and cruelty. It also punishes the tax payers as well with having to pay for the guy. With the death penalty everyone, including the criminal, wins!
On 26/01/2025 02:24, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
As for the "thin layer of technocrats" mentioned below,
won't need to BE any within maybe 50 years or so - the
"AI" will manage everything. This is the monster we
have made .......
Ah, but what happens when the AI fails?
I think we are more tending towards the Morlock/Eloi duality.
The pampered sons and daughters of the days randon 'Slebs' will wander around in a paradise blissfully unaware of who or what maintains the world that they exist in so indolently
Or perhaps it will resemble Mick Farren's imagined world (see the Quest of the DNA Cowboys, et el) a surrealistic landscape where you can order anything through the internet from Stuff Central, the only downside being that some sort of machines are eating away at the fabric of reality itself to make it for you...
Or perhaps it will all simply collapse back into barbarism. As the fact that we have created a civilisation which its average human product is now both utterly dependent on, yet has absolutely no idea how to build or maintain.
CF Joseph Tainter.
On 26/01/2025 12:48, D wrote:
I think that life in prison is actually a worse punishment than death. And >> now I'm thinking _actual_ life in prison.Well maybe, maybe not.
It would depend on the prison
Personally, I'd much rather prefer to be executed in a quick and painless
way, than having to be locked up for many decades.
Could work on yer meditation!
So I view life in prison as the ultimate torture and cruelty. It also
punishes the tax payers as well with having to pay for the guy. With the
death penalty everyone, including the criminal, wins!
Yes. should be made to work at something.
On 26/01/2025 12:45, D wrote:
I think MAGA has already done its job. It will be abandoned and another
emotional meme will take over.
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats will
develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
Oh they will rehash the old Marxist shit and try and make everybody feel *guilty* about something that *only they can fix*.
I am interested to what happens to Ecobollox™ now Trump has thrown it under the bus and the world hasn't caught fire.
The second is trying to work out why a guy with a history of violence
and mental weirdness who was even reported to the authorities by his OWN FAMILY wasn't picked up. sooner.
Personally if they want to personally stab him to death I wouldn't give
a fuck. The guy placed himself beyond societies civilising influences.
He deserves to understand the implications of that. His victims should
be allowed to set the sentence as long as they carry it out themselves.
Wyoming is, alas, land-locked and doesn't even border on another
country. Even if the WILL is there, the reality won't work out.
They'd have to form an alliance/union with Idaho because at least IT
borders on Canada (for better or worse).
Working at something should be the default for all non-life sentences.
They could shovel snow, pick up autumn leaves, fix pot holes, pick up
trash, operate soup kitchens etc. etc. ad nauseam, to generate income
and make life a bit more tolerable to pay for their crimes.
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats will develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
Hmm, wasn't there a black mirror episode that took the amazon-production-consumption world to the logical extreme?
Have they managed to achieve anything major? I work with a guy at one of
my customers who lives in NH. He says that yes, taxes are fairly low,
but they take that back in fees instead, so not a huge difference in the
end according to him.
I've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
the DNC became the "Party Of Freaks". This DOOMED them.
"Wokie" is abberant, NOT remotely mainstream USA. It had a very short
shelf life - then a huge counter-response.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:49:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
the DNC became the "Party Of Freaks". This DOOMED them.
"Wokie" is abberant, NOT remotely mainstream USA. It had a very short
shelf life - then a huge counter-response.
The funny thing the freaks were always there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world"
That was a hit over 50 years ago and still gets a lot of airplay. The difference is the boys who wanted to be girls didn't want to compete on
the girls' swim team and get patted on the head for their efforts.
On 1/26/25 4:13 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:49:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
the DNC became the "Party Of Freaks". This DOOMED them.
"Wokie" is abberant, NOT remotely mainstream USA. It had a very
short shelf life - then a huge counter-response.
The funny thing the freaks were always there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up, muddled up,
shook up world"
That was a hit over 50 years ago and still gets a lot of airplay. The
difference is the boys who wanted to be girls didn't want to compete on
the girls' swim team and get patted on the head for their efforts.
I remember when it was new
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 18:30:55 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/26/25 4:13 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:49:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
the DNC became the "Party Of Freaks". This DOOMED them.
"Wokie" is abberant, NOT remotely mainstream USA. It had a very
short shelf life - then a huge counter-response.
The funny thing the freaks were always there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up, muddled up,
shook up world"
That was a hit over 50 years ago and still gets a lot of airplay. The
difference is the boys who wanted to be girls didn't want to compete on
the girls' swim team and get patted on the head for their efforts.
I remember when it was new
It was a catchy tune and I didn't put any more significance in the lyrics other than that's how things were. Lou Reed's 'Walk on the Wild Side'
covered the same ground and more and charted fairly well.
I was in Omaha on business in '70 when 'Lola' was getting a lot of airplay back east. I called in a request and the DJ said that wasn't popular
anymore and I should pick something else. I don't know if he'd never heard
of it, was thinking about another song from the '50s, or was subtly saying they didn't play that kind of stuff in Omaha.
I wasn't in Omaha that long but I'm guessing if you knew the right spot... When I moved to Springfield MA in the early '70s I was out investigating
the bar scene downtown. I walked into one and asked for a whiskey water. Finished that and I was thirsty so I asked for a beer. 'Oh, you're AC-DC' said the bartender. I looked a little closer at the couples sitting at the tables. The lighting was barroom dim but I thought I could detect 5
o'clock shadow on some of the girls. I finished my beer, tipped the
bartender and left. No harm, no foul and I took the joint off my list of potential hangouts.
I think the only reason they got air was because the Old Squares
didn't remotely understand what they were talking about
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 00:03:41 -0500, 186283@ud0s4.net wrote:
I think the only reason they got air was because the Old Squares
didn't remotely understand what they were talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8tdmaEhMHE
Somebody had to have known...
otoh the Old Squares thought 'Puff the Magic Dragon' was about marijuana.
I thought it was a somewhat sad song about a dragon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7WpPk00jA
Now that was about marijuana. Axton spent his final years living down the valley and is buried in the Hamilton MT cemetery. He did love his weed and was busted before it became legal in the state.
Steppenwolf got a lot of miles out of the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWw2NFo_ec
Then there's the moment you realize you're utterly screwed.
You've got to listen to the lyrics. A friend of mine liked Jeff Buckley's version of 'Hallelujah' and the kids from his church sang it at his
funeral. They heard the hallelujah and some biblical references but I
don't think it all sank in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiMJ2bC65A&
"maybe there is a god above,
but all I learned from love
is how to shoot someone who outdrew you."
Lang is a good example. When she game out as a lesbian people shrugged and said 'Yeah, okay'. She's also a vegetarian and when she started her anti- meat campaign her name turned to shit in Alberta and Montana. Running down perfectly good steaks, there's something to get upset about.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 09:39:56 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The second is trying to work out why a guy with a history of violence
and mental weirdness who was even reported to the authorities by his OWN
FAMILY wasn't picked up. sooner.
That's a depressingly common theme in the US. The authorities were aware
of a disaster in the making but didn't intervene. Innocent until proven guilty is a nice concept until it isn't.
Personally if they want to personally stab him to death I wouldn't give
a fuck. The guy placed himself beyond societies civilising influences.
He deserves to understand the implications of that. His victims should
be allowed to set the sentence as long as they carry it out themselves.
I like the old Norse concept. You want to be an outlaw, fine. The law no longer protects you. Anyone can kill you on sight with no penalty or weregild. We suggest Iceland is nice this time of year.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 22:01:12 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Wyoming is, alas, land-locked and doesn't even border on another
country. Even if the WILL is there, the reality won't work out.
They'd have to form an alliance/union with Idaho because at least IT
borders on Canada (for better or worse).
Montana would be a better choice. Idaho's border is minimal and it adjoins British California. Montana also borders on Alberta and Saskatchewan which are a better cultural fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative
Harold Covington wrote four or five novels and he stressed the need for seaports rather than a landlocked area. He was explicit about blacks and
Jews but I don't know what he planned to do with the overwhelming amount
of liberals in Portland, Seattle, and Tacoma.
Another Starbucks aficionado he was living in Bremerton at the time of his death, willing to put up with liberals rather than sacrificing creature comforts.
There are other PNW separatists going back to Callenbach's 'Ecotopia' and before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_movement
Oddly Oregon is the only state to join the US with an article in their constitution excluding blacks entirely. Times change.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 03:49:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I've heard it from multiple "previous liberals" ...
the DNC became the "Party Of Freaks". This DOOMED them.
"Wokie" is abberant, NOT remotely mainstream USA. It had a very short
shelf life - then a huge counter-response.
The funny thing the freaks were always there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world"
That was a hit over 50 years ago and still gets a lot of airplay. The difference is the boys who wanted to be girls didn't want to compete on
the girls' swim team and get patted on the head for their efforts.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 17:32:13 +0100, D wrote:
Working at something should be the default for all non-life sentences.
They could shovel snow, pick up autumn leaves, fix pot holes, pick up
trash, operate soup kitchens etc. etc. ad nauseam, to generate income
and make life a bit more tolerable to pay for their crimes.
'Cool Hand Luke' California does use prisoners for fire fighting.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 15:30:45 +0100, D wrote:
Hmm, wasn't there a black mirror episode that took the
amazon-production-consumption world to the logical extreme?
Was that the one when fully automated factories continued to efficiently
make goods that were neither needed or wanted? I've only seen a couple of
Black Mirror episodes. 'Joan is Awful' was awful enough to discourage me.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:45:09 +0100, D wrote:
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats will
develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
They need to go back to their roots and skip the elitist woke crap. They kneecapped him but I think Bernie Sanders' old school socialism could work for them.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:37:20 +0100, D wrote:
Have they managed to achieve anything major? I work with a guy at one of
my customers who lives in NH. He says that yes, taxes are fairly low,
but they take that back in fees instead, so not a huge difference in the
end according to him.
Not really. afaik NH still doesn't have a sales tax or personal income
tax. There was a degree of localism. If you had kids and wanted an
excellent school system you picked a town with good schools -- and paid
for it with property taxes.
I don't remember any particular fees. There were some voluntary fees. For example you could pay a nominal sum, $5 iirc, to register a back country trip. No pressure and your choice but if you didn't pay it and ran into trouble call somebody who cares. Search & Rescue wasn't coming.
The state was the last to officially recognize Martin Lucifer King Day.
There was an existing state holiday, 'Fast Day', and they didn't think the state workers needed another day off. The unstated argument was why have a black holiday in a state with no blacks? They finally elected a Democratic female governor and the day was recognized.
The DMV wasn't big on reciprocacy. What happened outside of NH stayed
outside of NH as far as points on your license.
It started to change with the influx of Massholes.
Hey, the 'nurse' that schedules my med appts and
such DOES get a 5-o-clock shadow ... but 'she'
is good at it so I don't care in the least.
Anyhow, I don't care about the freaks, they're
just fine. Wokie decided they should always
be In Charge, Just Because, More Equal.
That I don't like.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, 186283@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hey, the 'nurse' that schedules my med appts and
such DOES get a 5-o-clock shadow ... but 'she'
is good at it so I don't care in the least.
What is a "5-o-clock shadow"?
Once something becomes successful and people are drawn to it, it start
to deteriorate. =(
But what I fear is if they want to continue the culture war against the
white race. On the other hand, maybe that ideological path is dead for
the next 10-20 years or so? Let's see how much of it Trump manages to
rewind and erase.
On 27/01/2025 09:09, D wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, 186283@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hey, the 'nurse' that schedules my med appts and
such DOES get a 5-o-clock shadow ... but 'she'
is good at it so I don't care in the least.
What is a "5-o-clock shadow"?
Th incipient growth of masculine stubble on the chin etc. that occurs in someone who shaved this morning - usually with an electric razor which doesn't shave as close
On 27/01/2025 09:05, D wrote:
But what I fear is if they want to continue the culture war against the
white race. On the other hand, maybe that ideological path is dead for the >> next 10-20 years or so? Let's see how much of it Trump manages to rewind
and erase.
The problem is that modified Marxism is so morally attractive to people who think they are Atheists, but still want an objective Moral Compass.
Wokery provides one.
And unfortunately it all appeals to those who consider themselves - or want to be (thought of as) intelligent and educated.
As well as those who don't believe a word of it for a minute, but see that others do, and therefore use it to their own advantage.
Once the Revolution had been achieved with the help of the Intellectuals, they declared the Intellectuals 'class enemies' and sent them to the Gulags
Later on they were known as 'useful idiots'
Black Mirror episodes. 'Joan is Awful' was awful enough to discourage
me.
Was that the one with the pig? That episode was almost brutal enough to question if I should continue to watch it.
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air
SINCE the 60s.
And who plays Zappa music ?
Haha.. nice joke. Is it actually working during normal circumstances?
I've heard rumours that in some US prisons prisoners make license plates
or stuff. I heard about a prisoner suing a prison for slavery. I hope it
was dismissed.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:45:09 +0100, D wrote:
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats
will develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
They need to go back to their roots and skip the elitist woke crap.
They kneecapped him but I think Bernie Sanders' old school socialism
could work for them.
Don't you think Bernie is too extreme?
I see two ways. If they want to win, it is easy. Find someone fairly
young (40-50) and charismatic who is not an ass hole or stupid. And then
move to the right. Done and battle won! They could even shamelessly copy
some of the lighter MAGA rhetoric.
But what I fear is if they want to continue the culture war against the
white race. On the other hand, maybe that ideological path is dead for
the next 10-20 years or so? Let's see how much of it Trump manages to
rewing and erase.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:03:00 +0100, D wrote:
Black Mirror episodes. 'Joan is Awful' was awful enough to discourage
me.
Was that the one with the pig? That episode was almost brutal enough to
question if I should continue to watch it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Is_Awful
It's hard to summarize. No pigs though.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:05:30 +0100, D wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:45:09 +0100, D wrote:
Thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. I wonder what meme the democrats
will develop the next 4 years, to counter the maga meme?
They need to go back to their roots and skip the elitist woke crap.
They kneecapped him but I think Bernie Sanders' old school socialism
could work for them.
Don't you think Bernie is too extreme?
I see two ways. If they want to win, it is easy. Find someone fairly
young (40-50) and charismatic who is not an ass hole or stupid. And then
move to the right. Done and battle won! They could even shamelessly copy
some of the lighter MAGA rhetoric.
But what I fear is if they want to continue the culture war against the
white race. On the other hand, maybe that ideological path is dead for
the next 10-20 years or so? Let's see how much of it Trump manages to
rewing and erase.
Sanders isn't all that extreme. He's a social democrat not a democratic socialist despite what he identifies as. The DSA tolerate him as better
than nothing.
What I had in mind is his '70s approach. For example, everyone is getting screwed by Big Pharma, white, black, hispanic, queer, whatever. Skip all
the little cliques and look at the big picture. The same for illegal immigration. The Democrats did that once before with the Democratic Leadership Council.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council
The DLC lost momentum when Clinton lost to Obama. I'm not sure Obama
really meant to but he emboldened the more radical special interest
groups. They festered during the first Trump administration and went completely out of control under Biden's zombie administration.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:01:22 +0100, D wrote:
Haha.. nice joke. Is it actually working during normal circumstances?
I've heard rumours that in some US prisons prisoners make license plates
or stuff. I heard about a prisoner suing a prison for slavery. I hope it
was dismissed.
There are some prison industries but it's a low percentage. I don't know
if it still applies but the Forest Service was using prison made signs and some states were using prison labor for road signs and license plates.
I've seen chain gangs like in Cool Hand Luke in the south in the '50s and '60s but I don't know if they still exist.
There are also internal jobs like cooking, laundry, and maintenance that
have a very minimal wage but it's better than nothing.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:01:22 +0100, D wrote:
Haha.. nice joke. Is it actually working during normal circumstances?
I've heard rumours that in some US prisons prisoners make license plates >>> or stuff. I heard about a prisoner suing a prison for slavery. I hope it >>> was dismissed.
There are some prison industries but it's a low percentage. I don't know
if it still applies but the Forest Service was using prison made signs
and
some states were using prison labor for road signs and license plates.
I've seen chain gangs like in Cool Hand Luke in the south in the '50s and
'60s but I don't know if they still exist.
Ah... maybe Trump will reinstate chain gangs? Seems like a good idea
that just disappeared somehow.
There are also internal jobs like cooking, laundry, and maintenance that
have a very minimal wage but it's better than nothing.
Hmm, maybe he will use prisoners as border guards to guard the border?
You chain them to a pole, leave food and water and tell them to shoot anything that approaches (from the _right_ direction). ;)
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/2025 09:09, D wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, 186283@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hey, the 'nurse' that schedules my med appts and
such DOES get a 5-o-clock shadow ... but 'she'
is good at it so I don't care in the least.
What is a "5-o-clock shadow"?
Th incipient growth of masculine stubble on the chin etc. that occurs
in someone who shaved this morning - usually with an electric razor
which doesn't shave as close
Ahhh... got it! Thank you very much for the explanation.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:01:22 +0100, D wrote:
Haha.. nice joke. Is it actually working during normal circumstances?
I've heard rumours that in some US prisons prisoners make license plates
or stuff. I heard about a prisoner suing a prison for slavery. I hope it
was dismissed.
There are some prison industries but it's a low percentage. I don't know
if it still applies but the Forest Service was using prison made signs and some states were using prison labor for road signs and license plates.
I've seen chain gangs like in Cool Hand Luke in the south in the '50s and '60s but I don't know if they still exist.
There are also internal jobs like cooking, laundry, and maintenance that
have a very minimal wage but it's better than nothing.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air
SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of anything. Steppenwolf was one of my favorites. It's one of the few albums
I can remember where and when I bought it. I was at the SUNY Albany
bookstore with my girlfriend and saw the record. This was before 'Easy
Rider' so they were relatively unknown. I bought it more or less becase of Hesse.
I never saw the original band but I did see Kay years later in the '90s.
And who plays Zappa music ?
One of the local stations did a New Years Day thing called Frank & Frank, intermixing Sinatra and Zappa. I've got to say I preferred the Sinatra
cuts.
The odd FZ sound was from him being an enthusiast of some
'experimental' euro composers. Jeff Beck once related the sheer
torture of auditioning for a slot in "The Mothers" ... hyper-exotic
time signatures and such
What ? No need for prisoners ! Plenty of Good Ole' Boyz that'd do the
job for free
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:45:10 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
What ? No need for prisoners ! Plenty of Good Ole' Boyz that'd do the
job for free
Hell yeah.
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 22:20:40 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The odd FZ sound was from him being an enthusiast of some
'experimental' euro composers. Jeff Beck once related the sheer
torture of auditioning for a slot in "The Mothers" ... hyper-exotic
time signatures and such
Reminds me of a Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash duet. Cash asked what key it was in and when Nelson replied something like F# Major poor old Johnny
said 'I figured...'
On 1/27/25 11:45 AM, D wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/2025 09:09, D wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, 186283@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hey, the 'nurse' that schedules my med appts and
such DOES get a 5-o-clock shadow ... but 'she'
is good at it so I don't care in the least.
What is a "5-o-clock shadow"?
Th incipient growth of masculine stubble on the chin etc. that occurs in >>> someone who shaved this morning - usually with an electric razor which
doesn't shave as close
Ahhh... got it! Thank you very much for the explanation.
I thought the term was kind of 'universal' by now.
However it IS kinda odd to see a nurse with big tits
wearing such a shadow. Can't un-see it :-)
On 1/27/25 4:28 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 10:01:22 +0100, D wrote:
Haha.. nice joke. Is it actually working during normal circumstances? >>>> I've heard rumours that in some US prisons prisoners make license plates >>>> or stuff. I heard about a prisoner suing a prison for slavery. I hope it >>>> was dismissed.
There are some prison industries but it's a low percentage. I don't know >>> if it still applies but the Forest Service was using prison made signs and >>> some states were using prison labor for road signs and license plates.
I've seen chain gangs like in Cool Hand Luke in the south in the '50s and >>> '60s but I don't know if they still exist.
Ah... maybe Trump will reinstate chain gangs? Seems like a good idea that
just disappeared somehow.
There are also internal jobs like cooking, laundry, and maintenance that >>> have a very minimal wage but it's better than nothing.
Hmm, maybe he will use prisoners as border guards to guard the border? You >> chain them to a pole, leave food and water and tell them to shoot anything >> that approaches (from the _right_ direction). ;)
What ? No need for prisoners ! Plenty of
Good Ole' Boyz that'd do the job for free :-)
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 22:20:40 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The odd FZ sound was from him being an enthusiast of some
'experimental' euro composers. Jeff Beck once related the sheer
torture of auditioning for a slot in "The Mothers" ... hyper-exotic
time signatures and such
Reminds me of a Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash duet. Cash asked what key it was in and when Nelson replied something like F# Major poor old Johnny
said 'I figured...'
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/27/25 4:28 PM, D wrote:
Hmm, maybe he will use prisoners as border guards to guard the border? You >>> chain them to a pole, leave food and water and tell them to shoot anything >>> that approaches (from the _right_ direction). ;)
What ? No need for prisoners ! Plenty of
Good Ole' Boyz that'd do the job for free :-)
What a beautiful project for bringing together good ole boyz and convicts
in a common project of spiritual love! =D
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air
SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of anything.
On 2025-01-28, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/27/25 4:28 PM, D wrote:
Hmm, maybe he will use prisoners as border guards to guard the border? You >>>> chain them to a pole, leave food and water and tell them to shoot anything >>>> that approaches (from the _right_ direction). ;)
What ? No need for prisoners ! Plenty of
Good Ole' Boyz that'd do the job for free :-)
What a beautiful project for bringing together good ole boyz and convicts
in a common project of spiritual love! =D
Well, The Donald did refer to January 6 as "a day of love"...
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air
SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of:
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
What about web radio? Are there any gems there? I listen to two radio stations. One is a jazz station that is private but very weird. They have
no commercials except commercials for tickets to jazz concerts. I have no clue have they manage to stay in business.
The other one is BBC, which _occasionally_ have interesting programs. The problem is that 90% of the times they are talking about arabia, climate or gender issues, so most of it is not so interesting.
Our little bluegrass group does a couple of pieces in C# minor.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of:
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 20:01:49 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Our little bluegrass group does a couple of pieces in C# minor.
For whatever perverted reason? Do you hate banjo players?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of:
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
What about web radio? Are there any gems there? I listen to two radio stations. One is a jazz station that is private but very weird. They
have no commercials except commercials for tickets to jazz concerts. I
have no clue have they manage to stay in business.
The other one is BBC, which _occasionally_ have interesting programs.
The problem is that 90% of the times they are talking about arabia,
climate or gender issues, so most of it is not so interesting.
On 2025-01-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 20:01:49 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Our little bluegrass group does a couple of pieces in C# minor.
For whatever perverted reason? Do you hate banjo players?
That's why God created capos. For me as a fiddler and mandolin player, whenever I see a guitarist putting a capo on the 4th fret,
I know I'm in for trouble.
Why is it that female vocalists love to sing in B?
I don't sing or play in a group so keys are sort of a moot point. I do
play whistle and Irish flute so a lot of what I know is in D or G, or mixolydian and ionian, I guess.
I've got a couple of whistles in other
keys and a cheap Boehm flute if I want to get adventuresome.
For guitar I favor A, C, E, and G and the related minors. For banjo I
usually stick with the standard open G or sometimes G modal. I use A and E mostly for blues stuff with a pentatonic scale.
I've got a capo around someplace but if you're not working with a singer
it isn't too useful.
Depends. In my guitar days when I was playing with another guitarist I
would sometimes put on a capo (e.g. he plays in D, I play in C capo 2)
so I could get different voicings for the same chords, just for a bit of variety.
On 1/28/25 3:28 PM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of:
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
That's kind of the case of US commercial radio
these days. Of course it was kind of like that
for a long time music/ads/music/ads timed I think
by the length of a 45 record. FM radio used to
run longer stuff, but that's RARE now.
However I did hit on an FM station that ran the
entire "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" not too long ago.
The DJ must have had the runs or something and
needed to spend 17 minutes on the can :-)
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
What about web radio? Are there any gems there? I listen to two radio
stations. One is a jazz station that is private but very weird. They have
no commercials except commercials for tickets to jazz concerts. I have no
clue have they manage to stay in business.
Another is ABC Jazz. It's government-funded, so that's how they
avoid ads:
http://live-radio02.mediahubaustralia.com/JAZW/mp3/
The other one is BBC, which _occasionally_ have interesting programs. The
problem is that 90% of the times they are talking about arabia, climate or >> gender issues, so most of it is not so interesting.
I don't listen to talk stations. ABC have some but they'll be as
bad or worse than the BBC. ABC Classic is their other musical
option (5min news bulletins aside), which I listen to on real
radio:
http://live-radio01.mediahubaustralia.com/2FMW/mp3/
On 28/01/2025 20:42, D wrote:
ClassicFM.com has few adverts and plays the more accessible and popular classical music.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>>>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of: >>>
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
What about web radio? Are there any gems there? I listen to two radio
stations. One is a jazz station that is private but very weird. They have
no commercials except commercials for tickets to jazz concerts. I have no
clue have they manage to stay in business.
There are stations like classicrock etc but accessing those tends to be 'our way or the highway'
The other one is BBC, which _occasionally_ have interesting programs. The
problem is that 90% of the times they are talking about arabia, climate or >> gender issues, so most of it is not so interesting.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/28/25 3:28 PM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>>>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of: >>>
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
That's kind of the case of US commercial radio
these days. Of course it was kind of like that
for a long time music/ads/music/ads timed I think
by the length of a 45 record. FM radio used to
run longer stuff, but that's RARE now.
However I did hit on an FM station that ran the
entire "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" not too long ago.
The DJ must have had the runs or something and
needed to spend 17 minutes on the can :-)
What about AM? Maybe that's where the good stuff lives?
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if
you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish
mission)
On 2025-01-30, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if
you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish
mission)
I was driving home, early Sunday morning
Through Bakersfield, listening to gospel music
on the colored radio station
And the preacher said,
"You know, you've aaaaaaaalways got the Loooooord by your side."
I was so pleased to be informed of this
That I ran twenty red lights in His honor.
Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord.
-- Rolling Stones: Faraway Eyes
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/28/25 3:28 PM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on
the air
SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of
anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of: >>>
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any
music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
That's kind of the case of US commercial radio
these days. Of course it was kind of like that
for a long time music/ads/music/ads timed I think
by the length of a 45 record. FM radio used to
run longer stuff, but that's RARE now.
However I did hit on an FM station that ran the
entire "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" not too long ago.
The DJ must have had the runs or something and
needed to spend 17 minutes on the can :-)
What about AM? Maybe that's where the good stuff lives?
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/28/25 3:28 PM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on the air >>>>>> SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of >>>>> anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of: >>>>
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any >>>> music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
That's kind of the case of US commercial radio
these days. Of course it was kind of like that
for a long time music/ads/music/ads timed I think
by the length of a 45 record. FM radio used to
run longer stuff, but that's RARE now.
However I did hit on an FM station that ran the
entire "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" not too long ago.
The DJ must have had the runs or something and
needed to spend 17 minutes on the can :-)
What about AM? Maybe that's where the good stuff lives?
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if
you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish
mission)
On 1/30/25 12:43 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-30, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if >>> you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish
mission)
I was driving home, early Sunday morning
Through Bakersfield, listening to gospel music
on the colored radio station
And the preacher said,
"You know, you've aaaaaaaalways got the Loooooord by your side."
I was so pleased to be informed of this
That I ran twenty red lights in His honor.
Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord.
-- Rolling Stones: Faraway Eyes
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Yep, PLENTY of them - English and Spanish.
AM radio is almost entirely 'Talk' - usually
further 'right' - or Jesus freaks in the USA.
That's its current niche. FM *is* superior
for music - but the RANGE is short and now
it is infested with adverts. As 'net radio'
gains, expect MORE adverts.
However there's no great replacement for
broadcast radio. Instant info, local
interests, no subscriptions/monitoring/
ad-bots or such.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/30/25 12:43 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-30, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but
only if
you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish >>>> mission)
I was driving home, early Sunday morning
Through Bakersfield, listening to gospel music
on the colored radio station
And the preacher said,
"You know, you've aaaaaaaalways got the Loooooord by your side." >>> I was so pleased to be informed of this
That I ran twenty red lights in His honor.
Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord.
-- Rolling Stones: Faraway Eyes
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Yep, PLENTY of them - English and Spanish.
AM radio is almost entirely 'Talk' - usually
further 'right' - or Jesus freaks in the USA.
That's its current niche. FM *is* superior
for music - but the RANGE is short and now
it is infested with adverts. As 'net radio'
gains, expect MORE adverts.
However there's no great replacement for
broadcast radio. Instant info, local
interests, no subscriptions/monitoring/
ad-bots or such.
Did anyone here ever try this product?
https://tivoliaudio.com/pages/experience-model-one-digital-wifi-bluetooth-fm-radio-gen-2
Maybe it is possible to play online radio stations with it and a nicely integrated package. What I do not know is if it requires an app (in
which case it is a garbage product since I do not have a smart phone) or
if it is one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online
radio stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
it is one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online
radio stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
However there's no great replacement for broadcast radio.
Instant info, local interests, no subscriptions/monitoring/ ad-bots
or such.
On 29/01/2025 14:12, D wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/28/25 3:28 PM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 01:22:57 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe even more, and intentionally, suppressed
was "Monster" because it was Too True. Haven't heard that on >>>>>> the air
SINCE the 60s.
There aren't many stations left that would play a nine minute cut of >>>>> anything.
Yeah, doing so would cut into their desperate need to do one or both of: >>>>
1) run commercial breaks every 3.75 minutes when they actually play any >>>> music;
2) have the dj run his mouth for 20 minutes on something none of us
cares one iota about.
That's kind of the case of US commercial radio
these days. Of course it was kind of like that
for a long time music/ads/music/ads timed I think
by the length of a 45 record. FM radio used to
run longer stuff, but that's RARE now.
However I did hit on an FM station that ran the
entire "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" not too long ago.
The DJ must have had the runs or something and
needed to spend 17 minutes on the can :-)
What about AM? Maybe that's where the good stuff lives?
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth and
40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
Digital radio is even better than that..
But all sorts of good stuff exists on the 'net.
On 30/01/2025 09:37, D wrote:
it is one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online radio >> stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
I built my own radio code and that is exactly what has happened, The interface/API has now changed and none of the stations (except Classic FM) work any more.
I found a way to make them work and built a new PI to deliver high quality audio but simply haven't got around to the software yet
All these stations that you COULD listen to for free, are now accessible only by custom 'apps' which require a login and email account which means yet more spam
http://media-ice.musicradio.com/ClassicFMMP3 still works though and has ice info embedded in it. You need to be a bit slick to extract that though
On 1/30/25 4:37 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/30/25 12:43 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-30, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of: >>>>>
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you >>>>> just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if
you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish >>>>> mission)
I was driving home, early Sunday morning
Through Bakersfield, listening to gospel music
on the colored radio station
And the preacher said,
"You know, you've aaaaaaaalways got the Loooooord by your side." >>>> I was so pleased to be informed of this
That I ran twenty red lights in His honor.
Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Lord.
-- Rolling Stones: Faraway Eyes
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Yep, PLENTY of them - English and Spanish.
AM radio is almost entirely 'Talk' - usually
further 'right' - or Jesus freaks in the USA.
That's its current niche. FM *is* superior
for music - but the RANGE is short and now
it is infested with adverts. As 'net radio'
gains, expect MORE adverts.
However there's no great replacement for
broadcast radio. Instant info, local
interests, no subscriptions/monitoring/
ad-bots or such.
Did anyone here ever try this product?
https://tivoliaudio.com/pages/experience-model-one-digital-wifi-bluetooth-fm-radio-gen-2
Maybe it is possible to play online radio stations with it and a nicely
integrated package. What I do not know is if it requires an app (in which
case it is a garbage product since I do not have a smart phone) or if it is >> one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online radio
stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
I have an early 50s AM radio. It still works. No software
to update, no changes in platform. Have some spare
tubes/valves. Can likely resist a nuclear EMP.
As for music on AM ... being of a Certain Age I just
don't HEAR the signal/noise ratio - it's "normal" to
my ear, kinda like the noise of a needle on vinyl.
Grew up with it.
I don't listen to radio much, mostly driving, but I'm
glad it's still there.
There's a reason why US AM broadcast is almost entirely "talk radio"
now. The 3khz bandwidth and 40db s/n is /ok/ for 'talk'. But for
music, yes, it is utter crap.
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 05:43:30 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Bakersfield, the home of the CIO. (California Improved Okie)
I was in the middle of Kansas or some other flatland and the scanner
wasn't picking up anything. Finally it stopped on a station.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfqNEvykv0
Alright! My euphoria lasted about 15 seconds.
I'm a man!
Man!
I'm a Christian man!
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter.
And in a car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to have
the AM option.
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I don't know. I just copied TNP's number, presuming it was
"close-enough".
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
It (AM stereo) was being "hyped" in electronics magazines in the late
70's to early 80's. But it seemed the "hype" did not lead to any
change in the market in the end.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter.
And in a car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to have
the AM option.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 05:43:30 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Bakersfield, the home of the CIO. (California Improved Okie)
I was in the middle of Kansas or some other flatland and the scanner
wasn't picking up anything. Finally it stopped on a station.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfqNEvykv0
Alright! My euphoria lasted about 15 seconds.
I'm a man!
Man!
I'm a Christian man!
Excellent music! I enjoy this! We are lucky the song wasn't banned
during the Xiden year due to "micro-aggression". ;)
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
On 30/01/2025 20:13, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
Channel spacing is 9kHz. So since its double sideband you have to be WAY
down at 4Khz.
By really careful tweaking I managed to get a radio design to 3.5Khz
FM here has less stations but in practice a pretty good signal - the
channel spacing in the UK is 200kHz so there's plenty of room, but in
Germany they run 100kHz. The filters you need to reject a strong station 100KHz away do unpleasant things to the stereo at high audio frequencies.
Germans have cloth ears anyway.
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter. And in a
car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to have the AM option.
On 30/01/2025 20:13, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Channel spacing is 9kHz. So since its double sideband you have to be WAY
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
down at 4Khz.
By really careful tweaking I managed to get a radio design to 3.5Khz
Total waste of time really - here in Europe there is too much RF clutter
in the MW & LW bands
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?No idea. Never heard off it. You cant make a silk purse...
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter.
And in a car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
You get that on MW far far more.
I've not had issues with FM reception - it either works pretty well or
it just stops working till the next transmitter is in reasonable line of sight.
UK has pretty good FM coverage overall - its a small place - and with
RDS the tuner skips to the best transmitter and frequency for the
station you are tuned to. If its local, tough.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to haveFM here has less stations but in practice a pretty good signal - the
the AM option.
channel spacing in the UK is 200kHz so there's plenty of room, but in
Germany they run 100kHz. The filters you need to reject a strong station 100KHz away do unpleasant things to the stereo at high audio frequencies.
Germans have cloth ears anyway.
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:16:55 +0100, D wrote:
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
Wouldn't know. My efforts were directed at putting the state in the rear view.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter.
And in a car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to have
the AM option.
On 2025-01-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
AM is of such crap quality it is unlistenable. 30-3kHz bandwidth
Isn't it 5 kHz? I can't see wasting quality on a 2-kHz guard band.
I've heard about AM stereo. Is that for real? If so, how?
and 40dB signal to noise? You have top be freakin' kidding me!
FM is way better,
As long as there isn't a hill between you and the transmitter.
And in a car you have constantly-shifting multipath interference.
All in all, though, I consider FM a win - but it's nice to have
the AM option.
Regarding the (theoretical) audio bandwidth of US AM broadcast
radio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_broadcasting
In the section titled "Technical information" around 80% of the
way down the article, the audio bandwidth was reduced in 1989 to
10.2kHz. Prior to that, it was 15kHz.
The 15kHz matches my memories from earlier studies and the manual
that came with the Pioneer TX-7800 tuner I bought in 1980-81.
That tuner has a front-panel switch for AM IF bandwidth that
yields ~5kHz vs. ~15kHz audio bandwidth, based on some filters
(ceramic, IIRC) that were pretty high tech for the time. Sadly,
it seems some dust has become lodged in the mechanical tuning
capacitor. It still has partial function but like when it was
young.
Two "clear channel" stations I'm aware of are at 1160 and 1190.
IIRC, with the older 15kHz audio bandwidth standard, that means
there are no US stations centered at 1150, 1170, 1180, or 1200.
IIUC, for each clear channel station, the two adjacent center
frequencies are (or at least were) off limits.
Another thing I have noticed is that clear channel stations seem
to have 3 call letters, while non-clear-channel stations seem to
have 4 call letters. However, I'm not sure that's a hard and
fast rule.
While the theoretical audio bandwidth was pretty decent at 15kHz,
now 10.2kHz, practical bandwidth depends on the receiver (as
stated in the article linked above) and on the RF S/N ratio.
Near to the transmitting antennas, the Pioneer tuner had rather
good listenable bandwidth. Out in a rural county with a lot of buzz-producing light dimmers and switching power supplies around
the house (and probably foil-backed fiberglass insulation in the
exterior walls), the audio S/N ratio is terrible.
The main prob with Kansas/Oklahoma isn't how the women look but how
the majority THINK ... a lot more Jeezus Freaks and borderline KKK
than you may prefer.
Few USA AM radio receivers have a 'sensitivity' or 'bandwidth'
adjustment. Those can be useful in rejecting strong close stations.
You find them on 'desk-set' multiband radios, but not on consumer
stuff.
What few know is that early television goes back as far as 1909, with
significant improvements in the early 1920s. Electro-Mechanical
systems alas. Took Farnsworth to really sort it out.
Another thing I have noticed is that clear channel stations seem to have
3 call letters, while non-clear-channel stations seem to have 4 call
letters. However, I'm not sure that's a hard and fast rule.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 00:44:40 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
What few know is that early television goes back as far as 1909, with
significant improvements in the early 1920s. Electro-Mechanical
systems alas. Took Farnsworth to really sort it out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRGB
I grew up with Channel 6. 10 and 13 were late comers and then there was
the newfangled stuff that needed a converted box. The home grown TV shows were fun.
Still, as I said elsewhere, ordinary AM sounds OK to
me because that's what I grew up with. The brain knows
how to disappear the noise and make up for the poor
bandwidth.
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
Regarding the (theoretical) audio bandwidth of US AM broadcast
radio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_broadcasting
In the section titled "Technical information" around 80% of the
way down the article, the audio bandwidth was reduced in 1989 to
10.2kHz. Prior to that, it was 15kHz.
The 15kHz matches my memories from earlier studies and the manual
that came with the Pioneer TX-7800 tuner I bought in 1980-81.
That tuner has a front-panel switch for AM IF bandwidth that
yields ~5kHz vs. ~15kHz audio bandwidth, based on some filters
(ceramic, IIRC) that were pretty high tech for the time. Sadly,
it seems some dust has become lodged in the mechanical tuning
capacitor. It still has partial function but like when it was
young.
While the theoretical audio bandwidth was pretty decent at 15kHz,
now 10.2kHz, practical bandwidth depends on the receiver (as
stated in the article linked above) and on the RF S/N ratio.
Near to the transmitting antennas, the Pioneer tuner had rather
good listenable bandwidth. Out in a rural county with a lot of buzz-producing light dimmers and switching power supplies around
the house (and probably foil-backed fiberglass insulation in the
exterior walls), the audio S/N ratio is terrible.
On 30/01/2025 21:16, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 05:43:30 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I drove through Bakersfield late one night years ago.
There were Bible thumpers all up and down the dial.
Bakersfield, the home of the CIO. (California Improved Okie)
I was in the middle of Kansas or some other flatland and the scanner
wasn't picking up anything. Finally it stopped on a station.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfqNEvykv0
Alright! My euphoria lasted about 15 seconds.
I'm a man!
Man!
I'm a Christian man!
Excellent music! I enjoy this! We are lucky the song wasn't banned during
the Xiden year due to "micro-aggression". ;)
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
More good slap-you-on-the-back comely wenches who are good to share a beer and a bed with I think.
Rednecks do not spend their lives bitching about how oppressed they are.
I like rednecks, by and large.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:16:55 +0100, D wrote:
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
Wouldn't know. My efforts were directed at putting the state in the rear view.
On 1/30/25 8:43 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:16:55 +0100, D wrote:
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
Wouldn't know. My efforts were directed at putting the state in the rear
view.
Aww ... many are perfectly good-looking ! However in
those old 'frontier' states they tend not to be the
coastal waifs, but more athletic/strong-looking.
Any Twiggies who moved west would DIE almost
immediately and be purged from the gene pool.
The main prob with Kansas/Oklahoma isn't how the
women look but how the majority THINK ... a lot
more Jeezus Freaks and borderline KKK than you
may prefer.
WOWO in Ft. Wayne has downgraded but they were on 1190. Early mornings I could get the info on hog belly futures in upstate NY.
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the weather was just right.
In the UK we had BBC with state propaganda and ITV with soap powder
adverts.
And really only BBC radio stations were receivable with any quality,
although after dark we could listen to rock and roll on Radio
Luxembourg.
The brodcasting from moored ships that were outside legal UK limits
started and things improved
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/30/25 8:43 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:16:55 +0100, D wrote:
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
Wouldn't know. My efforts were directed at putting the state in the
rear view.
Aww ... many are perfectly good-looking ! However in those old
'frontier' states they tend not to be the coastal waifs, but more
athletic/strong-looking. Any Twiggies who moved west would DIE almost
immediately and be purged from the gene pool.
The main prob with Kansas/Oklahoma isn't how the women look but how
the majority THINK ... a lot more Jeezus Freaks and borderline KKK
than you may prefer.
I'm white, so works for me! =D
On 2025-01-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
WOWO in Ft. Wayne has downgraded but they were on 1190. Early mornings
I could get the info on hog belly futures in upstate NY.
In my teens I would often listen to short-wave radio, although much of
the time I turned to my trusty AM transistor radio.
KSL would come booming in from Salt Lake City late at night.
My best accomplishment was picking the WOWO station ID out of the noise.
Not bad for a 6-transistor radio near Vancouver, B.C.
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
In the UK we had BBC with state propaganda and ITV with soap powder adverts.
And really only BBC radio stations were receivable with any quality, although after dark we could listen to rock and roll on Radio Luxembourg.
The brodcasting from moored ships that were outside legal UK limits started and things improved
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 13:49:03 +0100, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/30/25 8:43 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:16:55 +0100, D wrote:
Are the women very beautiful in Kansas?
Wouldn't know. My efforts were directed at putting the state in the
rear view.
Aww ... many are perfectly good-looking ! However in those old
'frontier' states they tend not to be the coastal waifs, but more
athletic/strong-looking. Any Twiggies who moved west would DIE almost
immediately and be purged from the gene pool.
The main prob with Kansas/Oklahoma isn't how the women look but how
the majority THINK ... a lot more Jeezus Freaks and borderline KKK
than you may prefer.
I'm white, so works for me! =D
When the KKK was on a roll if they couldn't find a black to string up a Catholic would do.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 10:33:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the weather was just right.
In the UK we had BBC with state propaganda and ITV with soap powder
adverts.
And really only BBC radio stations were receivable with any quality,
although after dark we could listen to rock and roll on Radio
Luxembourg.
The brodcasting from moored ships that were outside legal UK limits
started and things improved
Do you still have a tax on TV receivers and wardens hunting down the violators?
What few know is that early television goes back as
far as 1909, with significant improvements in the
early 1920s. Electro-Mechanical systems alas. Took
Farnsworth to really sort it out.
So the politician simply added the public tv tax to people income tax.
So everyone pays for the pile of sh*t, even if you don't have a tv in
your home.
On 31/01/2025 04:49, Robert Riches wrote:
Regarding the (theoretical) audio bandwidth of US AM broadcastWell, you live and learn
radio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_broadcasting
Absolutely not the case in Europe
In the section titled "Technical information" around 80% of theYup, You would need switchable IF strips or tuning parts for that
way down the article, the audio bandwidth was reduced in 1989 to
10.2kHz. Prior to that, it was 15kHz.
The 15kHz matches my memories from earlier studies and the manual
that came with the Pioneer TX-7800 tuner I bought in 1980-81.
That tuner has a front-panel switch for AM IF bandwidth that
yields ~5kHz vs. ~15kHz audio bandwidth, based on some filters
(ceramic, IIRC) that were pretty high tech for the time. Sadly,
it seems some dust has become lodged in the mechanical tuning
capacitor. It still has partial function but like when it was
young.
Fascinating! And today you can use the same technique, move to a boat, registered in the caribbean for excellent tax planning purposes! =D
As a pre-teen or early teen in the earlier 1970s, I tried to build an electro-mechanical TV system with poster-paper disks with pinholes poked
in each disk. I was too naive to realize the small incandescent light
bulb was nowhere near fast enough handle even extremely low-resolution
TV.
Hah... nice try. Not catholic either. Jokes aside, do they still exist?
And do they still enjoy dressing up in those funny outfits?
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 23:36:47 +0100, D wrote:
So the politician simply added the public tv tax to people income tax.
So everyone pays for the pile of sh*t, even if you don't have a tv in
your home.
Our Public Broadcasting System would like you to believe they exist on donations but it's mostly government subsidies and low profile advertising
by corporate 'sponsors'. Several times a year they trot out the good shows and you know begging season has begun. The shows are interrupted
frequently by a couple of talking heads saying how wonderful viewer
supported programming is, and if you sign up for $$$ per month they'll
send you a DVD of the show so you can watch it uninterrupted.
I only watch Saturday night if they have 'Austin City Limits' and a local music show on. Much of the programming is British like 'Doc Martin' or
they have broadened the scope to subtitled French and Danish? shows. I'm
not sure about the latter; it's a Germanic language but not German.
I used to watch the Canadian 'Red Green' show but that ended in 2006.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 22:54:03 +0100, D wrote:
Fascinating! And today you can use the same technique, move to a boat,
registered in the caribbean for excellent tax planning purposes! =D
Brother Stair was a bible thumping nutcase whose plans for a pirate ship
fell through.
http://www.offshoreradiomuseum.co.uk/page488.html https://peoplepill.com/i/brother-stair
He did better leasing from WWCR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWCR
There are several stations like that. Technically they are international broadcasters but radio waves being what they are most of their programming
is aimed at the US market. I haven't listened to it in years but it used
to be fun. I think their motto was 'if you got the money, honey, we've got the time.'
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 23:37:39 +0100, D wrote:
Hah... nice try. Not catholic either. Jokes aside, do they still exist?
And do they still enjoy dressing up in those funny outfits?
Yeah, probably someplace, holding their meetings in a phone booth. The US
far right is its own worse enemy and the groups don't hold together too
long. If you've ever read Chesterton's 'The Man Who Was Thursday' nothing
has changed. Out of a subversive group of seven, six are undercover agents
of some three letter agency.
A lot of the groups adopted the profile of a grass snake after Charlottesville.
Well, I think with Trump in office, those radio waves will be stopped at
the border, and sent back to where they came from.
See! The blessings of the tax system. You would never again be bothered,
and it would bring you joy and great spiritual love to know that you countributed to public tv indoctrinating the population in the basics of socialism.
On 1 Feb 2025 04:11:52 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
As a pre-teen or early teen in the earlier 1970s, I tried to build an
electro-mechanical TV system with poster-paper disks with pinholes poked
in each disk. I was too naive to realize the small incandescent light
bulb was nowhere near fast enough handle even extremely low-resolution
TV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow-scan_television
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