On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its
own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without
extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if
the pi hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it
would be nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Given that the server manufacturers seem to no longer want to produce
smaller, cheaper nodes, but only want to sell huge GPU machines, I'm
contemplating if it actually might not be possible to build a nice
archive solution on pi:s, spinning disks and a few cards at a good
price.
To be continued... as the saying goes.
Yep ... lemme get in and fool with my 5-drive unit a bit and I'll
write a hands-on report. The price is good enough (the DRIVES are $$$
alas)
Even without the SATA hat ... you CAN run a number of external USB
3.x drives from a Pi. Won't be as quick, but it works OK.
And yea, I know what you mean about everybody trending towards
"overkill" boxes/systems. Better $ margin I guess.
Still no shortage of motherboards - so you can build your own
"appropriate" boxes.
For an NAS, it's the drive speeds that are kinda the limiting factor,
so even a 'slow' motherboard won't hurt anything. It's all I/O-bound.
The popular Sinology canned NAS units - 4/6/8/12 drive units with
multiple network plugs - all use basically laptop-grade 'Celeron'
grade processors.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 19:42:59 -0500, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote in <RtudnVi93qkPcBP6nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
On 1/20/25 3:53 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/2025 09:30, D wrote:
The Pi hat or OMV ?
The pi, with directly connected spinning disks. Does the hat have its >>>>> own extra power supply?
I've managed to get a P4 I think to run one spinning rust disk without >>>> extra power.
Strictly it depends on the disk.
The pi hat for 5 drives has an external 60W PSU
Ahh, if it has an external PSU then there is no problem. Ideally, if
the pi hat for 5 drives is intended to accomodate 5 spinning drives, it
would be nice if it did so at full speeds.
One review said the WRITEs were a little pokey,
but not TOO bad. READs were apparently snappy.
This is OK ... most stuff on HDDs is "write once /
read more often".
Given that the server manufacturers seem to no longer want to produce
smaller, cheaper nodes, but only want to sell huge GPU machines, I'm
contemplating if it actually might not be possible to build a nice
archive solution on pi:s, spinning disks and a few cards at a good
price.
To be continued... as the saying goes.
Yep ... lemme get in and fool with my 5-drive unit a bit and I'll
write a hands-on report. The price is good enough (the DRIVES are $$$
alas)
Even without the SATA hat ... you CAN run a number of external USB
3.x drives from a Pi. Won't be as quick, but it works OK.
And yea, I know what you mean about everybody trending towards
"overkill" boxes/systems. Better $ margin I guess.
Still no shortage of motherboards - so you can build your own
"appropriate" boxes.
For an NAS, it's the drive speeds that are kinda the limiting factor,
so even a 'slow' motherboard won't hurt anything. It's all I/O-bound.
The popular Sinology canned NAS units - 4/6/8/12 drive units with
multiple network plugs - all use basically laptop-grade 'Celeron'
grade processors.
Beg to differ...this is on my Synology Diskstation:
root@DT:~# uname -a
Linux DT 3.10.108 #42962 SMP Mon Aug 19 15:14:28 CST 2024 armv7l
GNU/Linux synology_alpine_ds2015xs
root@DT:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l)
Speed : 1.7GHz
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpv4
idiva idivt
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x2
CPU part : 0xc0f
CPU revision : 4
processor : 1
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l)
Speed : 1.7GHz
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpv4
idiva idivt
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x2
CPU part : 0xc0f
CPU revision : 4
processor : 2
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l)
Speed : 1.7GHz
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpv4
idiva idivt
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x2
CPU part : 0xc0f
CPU revision : 4
processor : 3
model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 4 (v7l)
Speed : 1.7GHz
Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls vfpv4
idiva idivt
CPU implementer : 0x41
CPU architecture: 7
CPU variant : 0x2
CPU part : 0xc0f
CPU revision : 4
Hardware : AnnapurnaLabs Alpine (Device Tree)
Revision : 0000
Serial : 0000000000000000
Last one I bought was basically a Celeron. Worked fine for a
medium-sized office.
The ARM-v7 series are 32-bitters, probably a rough equiv of yer basic
Celeron in performance.
In short you don't need an i9 for an NAS. The I/O waits suck up
everything. Much of anything above yer Celeron or A7 is a waste of
CPU.
Last one I bought was basically a Celeron. Worked fine for a
medium-sized office.
The ARM-v7 series are 32-bitters, probably a rough equiv of yer basic
Celeron in performance.
In short you don't need an i9 for an NAS. The I/O waits suck up
everything. Much of anything above yer Celeron or A7 is a waste of
CPU.
https://www.missoulapubliclibrary.org/home/spaces/makerspace/
Two of the issues that encourage me to vote are mil levies to fund the library and the Parks&Rec open space projects. The library has become much more than dusty shelves filled with books. I'm trying to remember the last physical book I checked out; I get digital content either through Amazon
or the libby app.
On 2025-01-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://www.missoulapubliclibrary.org/home/spaces/makerspace/
Two of the issues that encourage me to vote are mil levies to fund the
library and the Parks&Rec open space projects. The library has become
much more than dusty shelves filled with books. I'm trying to remember
the last physical book I checked out; I get digital content either
through Amazon or the libby app.
What are "mil levies"? Mil as in Mil-itary? or local sales tax
additions? Or property tax additions?
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 02:17:58 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-23, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://www.missoulapubliclibrary.org/home/spaces/makerspace/
Two of the issues that encourage me to vote are mil levies to fund
the library and the Parks&Rec open space projects. The library has
become much more than dusty shelves filled with books. I'm trying
to remember the last physical book I checked out; I get digital
content either through Amazon or the libby app.
What are "mil levies"? Mil as in Mil-itary? or local sales tax
additions? Or property tax additions?
https://archive.legmt.gov/bills/mca/title_0150/chapter_0100/part_0040/ section_0250/0150-0100-0040-0250.html
Property tax. Apparently the preferred spelling is 'mill' which is
even more confusing. It's $1 / $1000 of assessed value. There is a disconnect on the part of some voters. 'I voted for increased
funding for the fire department.' 'My property taxes went up!' Duh.
What's interesting is the pattern over the years. The library and Parks measures pass; the schools fail. They can legally request another ballot
in six months. They do, and it fails.
What are "mil levies"? Mil as in Mil-itary? or local sales tax
additions? Or property tax additions?
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000 coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
One seat does not do much. And getting 10 000 people to move is a tall
order. You can probably register a party with fewer than that.
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
One seat does not do much. And getting 10 000 people to move is a tall
order. You can probably register a party with fewer than that.
On 2025-01-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
There is some obscure rule in sweden that in theory would allow 10 000
coordinated people to move to the same region and get a seat in the
parliament. I always wonder why no one ever tried it.
One seat does not do much. And getting 10 000 people to move is a tall
order. You can probably register a party with fewer than that.
I think there's occasionally been a Libertarian Party rep in the US
Congress, usually from Alaska. Nearest thing now would be Rand Paul,
but he's officially a Republican.
There is no limit for starting a political party in sweden. Anyone can
do it. But in order to get automatically placed as an option by the
election booths you need to have reached at least 1% in the two previous elections.
If you haven't reached that size, you have to travel around sweden and
hand out your election papers yourself. There are also blank papers
where you can manually fill in your party, that's always an option for
all parties regardless of size.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:44:28 +0100, D wrote:
There is no limit for starting a political party in sweden. Anyone can
do it. But in order to get automatically placed as an option by the
election booths you need to have reached at least 1% in the two previous
elections.
If you haven't reached that size, you have to travel around sweden and
hand out your election papers yourself. There are also blank papers
where you can manually fill in your party, that's always an option for
all parties regardless of size.
That's similar to the US except its on the state level. Then there are the dirty tricks. One year the Libertarian candidate asked people not to vote
for him. The Democrats had been promoting him knowing that any votes for
him would come from Republican leaning voters.
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of:
1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you
just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if >>>> you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish
mission)
AM radio is almost entirely 'Talk' - usually
further 'right' - or Jesus freaks in the USA.
That's its current niche. FM *is* superior
for music - but the RANGE is short and now
it is infested with adverts. As 'net radio'
gains, expect MORE adverts.
Did anyone here ever try this product?
https://tivoliaudio.com/pages/experience-model-one-digital-wifi-bluetooth-fm-radio-gen-2
Maybe it is possible to play online radio stations with it and a nicely integrated package. What I do not know is if it requires an app (in which case it is a garbage product since I do not have a smart phone) or if it
is one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online radio stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
On 2025-01-30, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In the US, depending upon where you are geographically, AM is one of: >>>>> 1) talk radio
2) bible radio (i.e., also talk, but where they talk about how if you >>>>> just accept Jesus into your heart *now* you'll be saved, but only if >>>>> you first send $29.95/month to Mr Jim Jones to support his parish >>>>> mission)
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
AM radio is almost entirely 'Talk' - usually
further 'right' - or Jesus freaks in the USA.
That's its current niche. FM *is* superior
for music - but the RANGE is short and now
it is infested with adverts. As 'net radio'
gains, expect MORE adverts.
On 2025-01-30, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Did anyone here ever try this product?
https://tivoliaudio.com/pages/experience-model-one-digital-wifi-bluetooth-fm-radio-gen-2
Maybe it is possible to play online radio stations with it and a nicely
integrated package. What I do not know is if it requires an app (in which
case it is a garbage product since I do not have a smart phone) or if it
is one of those things that works for 1 year, and once the online radio
stations move to other software and servers it stops working.
From their web site:
Modern style with the latest technology built-in, the Model One
Digital streaming radio easily connects to Wi-Fi with AirPlay
2 and works with Google Cast to play music from any app with
built-in support. Switch to radio mode and enjoy your local
broadcasts with Tivoli Audio’s renowned reception or quickly
connect a device via Bluetooth®. With all these listening
options, the Model One Digital will fill any space in your home
with clear and dynamic audio quality and seamlessly fit into
your daily life.
This product cannot Wi-Fi connect with Generation 1 ART products,
only Generation 2 or other AirPlay 2 and Google Cast speakers.
No, it is an FM radio, and a speaker for a smartphone rolled into one
sleek package. And since you are in Europe, the FM radio may or may not
be compatible with the DIGITAL FM broadcasters.
In the US, the left side of the FM dial is where the non-profit
broadcasters ("public service") live. NPR is my lifeline.
My daily news cocktail is
- NPR "Up First"
- WSJ "What's News"
- NYT "The Headlines"
For classical, there's KUSC (Los Angeles).
For other music, I serve my 20,000 track audio library to my smartphone anywhere with Plex Mediaserver on my Linux box.
Is NPR a powerful weapon to navigate the news of the world?
WSJ I know and like. Very powerful!
NYT I do not read.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:49:43 +0100, D wrote:
Is NPR a powerful weapon to navigate the news of the world?
WSJ I know and like. Very powerful!
NYT I do not read.
If you like the world according to the left.
Ahhhh... then it is not so good. WSJ it is! For leftist news I follow
the centrist swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet (SvD). There is no
right newspaper in sweden. I imagine SvD is like the center wing of the democrats.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 22:15:16 +0100, D wrote:
Ahhhh... then it is not so good. WSJ it is! For leftist news I follow
the centrist swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet (SvD). There is no
right newspaper in sweden. I imagine SvD is like the center wing of the
democrats.
The WSJ was better before Murdoch bought it. I haven't read it recently so may not be making a fair judgment. You could say my readership was a
casualty of the digital age. I used to read it at the library but with the expansion of their digital collection I don't physically visit very frequently.
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
In the UK we had BBC with state propaganda and ITV with soap powder adverts.
And really only BBC radio stations were receivable with any quality,
although after dark we could listen to rock and roll on Radio Luxembourg.
The brodcasting from moored ships that were outside legal UK limits
started and things improved
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:...
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
Back in Denmark, we had just one (public service) TV channel. People
I often was still listening when they signed off, playing,
At the end of the day / I kneel down and say
Thank you Lord / for my work and play!
I tried to be good / for I know that I should
That's my prayer / at the end of the day.
Fond memories ...
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:...
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
Back in Denmark, we had just one (public service) TV channel. People
Makes me feel young! When I grew up in Sweden, we had 2 channels! 100%
more! ;)
Then I think around 1989 or was it 1990 private TV was first created. I
did not have it, too expensive, but a friend had, and it was very
exciting to watch all the weird shows on the first private channel. May
Jan Stenbeck, the destructor of 2 government monopolies (at least) rest
in peace! =)
I often was still listening when they signed off, playing,
At the end of the day / I kneel down and say
Thank you Lord / for my work and play!
I tried to be good / for I know that I should
That's my prayer / at the end of the day.
Fond memories ...
I think I have vague memories of when I was visiting my grand parents in iceland
and every night when the public TV stopped broad casting, they finished
with the
national anthem.
I think I have vague memories of when I was visiting my grand parents in iceland and every night when the public TV stopped broad casting, they finished with the national anthem.
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s
once we had been told to be self-loathing.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s
once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an artist.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s >>> once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV
drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB
balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an
artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint"
knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside" area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
Then Dad got us a Sony Trinitron, and it had an "auto" setting that
"worked well enough" that we quit fiddling with the other adjust knobs.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s
once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an artist.
There was a scam that advertised in the magazines that would convert your black & white TV to color at a very reasonable price. It was a mylar sheet you stuck on the tube. Hey, it was color, wasn't it?
The updated version was the 'digital' antennas when the broadcasters
switched over. I'm still using rabbit ears that were designed to clamp on
the rain gutter of a vehicle that I bought sometime in the '90s.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter
60s once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color
TV drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the
RGB balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie,
not an artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint"
knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G and
B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside"
area...).
On 1/31/25 5:03 PM, D wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:...
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
Back in Denmark, we had just one (public service) TV channel. People
Makes me feel young! When I grew up in Sweden, we had 2 channels! 100%
more! ;)
Then I think around 1989 or was it 1990 private TV was first created. I did >> not have it, too expensive, but a friend had, and it was very exciting to
watch all the weird shows on the first private channel. May Jan Stenbeck,
the destructor of 2 government monopolies (at least) rest in peace! =)
I often was still listening when they signed off, playing,
At the end of the day / I kneel down and say
Thank you Lord / for my work and play!
I tried to be good / for I know that I should
That's my prayer / at the end of the day.
Fond memories ...
I think I have vague memories of when I was visiting my grand parents in
iceland
and every night when the public TV stopped broad casting, they finished
with the
national anthem.
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with
the national anthem or something similar. A test pic
of an eagle or something 'patriotic' on the screen.
The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s once we
had been told to be self-loathing.
Gen-A2, sometimes Gen-Z, simply cannot imagine being
so media-deprived. TWO noisy channels on yer Zenith
black-n-white ? How did you LIVE ???!!!
Dad bought a pretty decently-large Zenith early 60s.
Looked almost exactly like : https://preview.redd.it/d5pkeb0ukzy21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2329f5f7ae6a7992daa7402e02e225212b825d68
Dunno what became of it, but it probably still works.
Don't touch that dial !
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 23:03:41 +0100, D wrote:
I think I have vague memories of when I was visiting my grand parents in
iceland and every night when the public TV stopped broad casting, they
finished with the national anthem.
And then came the test pattern:
https://www.printmag.com/daily-heller/tv-test-patterns/
The night Kennedy was killed they played 'New World Symphony' with stock photos of scenes from the US. Back then they knew when they had said all there was to say and didn't go on chattering endlessly.
On 2/1/25 12:05 AM, Rich wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the
national anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle
or something 'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda
faded in the latter 60s once we had been told to be
self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular.
Color TV drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to
adjust the RGB balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he
was a techie, not an artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a
"tint" knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to
adjust R, G and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user
servicable parts inside" area...).
SOME early color sets DID have RGB adjustments, but HIDDEN behind
some undocumented holes in the console back. You needed those
special plastic screwdrivers OR to literally risk your life with
metal ones.
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half
normal instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
Thing is, the proper balance changed from station to station ...
Still kinda pref LCD over LED. The LEDs can burn out but the LCD
pixels don't.
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden democrat party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion) Would be
superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end each day
with the national anthem.
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s >>> once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV
drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB
balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an
artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint"
knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside" area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s >>> once we had been told to be self-loathing.
The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV
drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB
balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an
artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob,
and a "tint" knob,
but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside" area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
Then Dad got us a Sony Trinitron, and it had an "auto" setting that
"worked well enough" that we quit fiddling with the other adjust knobs.
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains".
On 2025-02-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains".
Or "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method".
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national
anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something
'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s >>>> once we had been told to be self-loathing.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular. Color TV >>> drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB
balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie, not an >>> artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint"
knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside"
area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal
instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
The old National Television Standards Committee (NTSC) was sometimes
referred to by the alternative expansion "Never Twice the Same Color".
The "tint" part of the encoding was a phase adjustment on the color subcarrier. The transmitters tended to have some phase drift.
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains". The Germans came
up with a simpler solution: They reversed the phase every other line,
whereby it became self-correcting. PAL - Phase Alternating Line.
Everyone else picked up the German system, except for the Soviet allies,
who adopted the French system, so that the West German broadcasts would
be displayed in Black and White only.
On 01/02/2025 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:LOL. The US system was truly dire for terrestrial broadcasting and only
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains".
Or "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method".
just acceptable for cable.
PAL was good enough for the rest of the technology
Ah, but NTSC had a far reaching impact that had nothing to do with TVs. Because of the TV consumer market 3.57954 MHz crystals were dirt cheap and showed up everywhere. I believe some variant of the 8253 PIT still lives
in PCs and runs at 1/3 or 1.19318 MHz. Roll the 16 bit counter over and
you had the 55 msec tick.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/31/25 5:03 PM, D wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 31/01/2025 07:09, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:...
I grew up with 2.5 TV stations ... the 0.5
was more distant and only came in OK if the
weather was just right.
Back in Denmark, we had just one (public service) TV channel. People
Makes me feel young! When I grew up in Sweden, we had 2 channels!
100% more! ;)
Then I think around 1989 or was it 1990 private TV was first created.
I did not have it, too expensive, but a friend had, and it was very
exciting to watch all the weird shows on the first private channel.
May Jan Stenbeck, the destructor of 2 government monopolies (at
least) rest in peace! =)
I often was still listening when they signed off, playing,
At the end of the day / I kneel down and say
Thank you Lord / for my work and play!
I tried to be good / for I know that I should
That's my prayer / at the end of the day.
Fond memories ...
I think I have vague memories of when I was visiting my grand parents
in iceland
and every night when the public TV stopped broad casting, they
finished with the
national anthem.
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with
the national anthem or something similar. A test pic
of an eagle or something 'patriotic' on the screen.
The practice kinda faded in the latter 60s once we
had been told to be self-loathing.
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden democrat party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion) Would be
superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end each day
with the national anthem.
Gen-A2, sometimes Gen-Z, simply cannot imagine being
so media-deprived. TWO noisy channels on yer Zenith
black-n-white ? How did you LIVE ???!!!
Dad bought a pretty decently-large Zenith early 60s.
Looked almost exactly like :
https://preview.redd.it/d5pkeb0ukzy21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2329f5f7ae6a7992daa7402e02e225212b825d68
Very beautiful! They really could design beautiful technology in those
days!
Dunno what became of it, but it probably still works.
Don't touch that dial !
On 2/1/25 2:47 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national >>>>> anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something >>>>> 'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the
latter 60s
once we had been told to be self-loathing.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular.
Color TV
drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the RGB >>>> balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie,
not an
artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint"
knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside"
area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal
instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
The old National Television Standards Committee (NTSC) was sometimes
referred to by the alternative expansion "Never Twice the Same Color".
The "tint" part of the encoding was a phase adjustment on the color
subcarrier. The transmitters tended to have some phase drift.
Hey, it was all analog ... slightest change in
temperature, or a beer can next to the works ...
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains". The Germans came
up with a simpler solution: They reversed the phase every other line,
whereby it became self-correcting. PAL - Phase Alternating Line.
Clever !
Everyone else picked up the German system, except for the Soviet allies,
who adopted the French system, so that the West German broadcasts would
be displayed in Black and White only.
Doubt there were TOO many color TVs in the
old eastern bloc. In any case, making the
opponent's stuff look worse is good propaganda.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:13:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/02/2025 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:LOL. The US system was truly dire for terrestrial broadcasting and only
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains".
Or "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method".
just acceptable for cable.
PAL was good enough for the rest of the technology
Ah, but NTSC had a far reaching impact that had nothing to do with TVs. Because of the TV consumer market 3.57954 MHz crystals were dirt cheap and showed up everywhere. I believe some variant of the 8253 PIT still lives
in PCs and runs at 1/3 or 1.19318 MHz. Roll the 16 bit counter over and
you had the 55 msec tick.
PAL crystals were used in some markets to be compatible with the TVs but never had the off label reach.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 11:28:42 +0100, D wrote:
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden democrat
party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion) Would be
superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end each day
with the national anthem.
Sung by an Ugandan 'Swede'?
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 11:28:42 +0100, D wrote:
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden democrat >>> party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion) Would be
superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end each day
with the national anthem.
Sung by an Ugandan 'Swede'?
Of course! Didn't you know that the white swede is a creature of myth
that never existed? ;)
Very beautiful! They really could design beautiful technology in those
days!
They liked to put at least a little "art" into them
back then. This look went WAY back to the early 1900s
when mostly just 'the rich' could afford tech but
wanted it to blend-in as acceptable "furniture".
Also had a hi-fi unit built into a very nice wooden
cabinet. For the player you opened the top. The
speakers were also concealed and you had to open
two little doors down lower. The rest of it WAS a
cabinet, although one shelf was tall enough for
LP records.
Then, later, 'art' was replaced by the modern/techno
look - square metal and black plastic. Yuk !
Can't swear it now, but I think the old Zenith
lit up the active (top) channel number on the
dial.
Dunno what became of it, but it probably still works.
Don't touch that dial !
PAL crystals were used in some markets to be compatible with the TVs
but never had the off label reach.
I don't actually understand that statement
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 11:28:42 +0100, D wrote:Of course! Didn't you know that the white swede is a creature of myth
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden
democrat party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion)
Would be superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end
each day with the national anthem.
Sung by an Ugandan 'Swede'?
that never existed? ;)
On 02/02/2025 10:39, D wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 11:28:42 +0100, D wrote:
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden democrat >>>> party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion) Would be
superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end each day >>>> with the national anthem.
Sung by an Ugandan 'Swede'?
Of course! Didn't you know that the white swede is a creature of myth that >> never existed? ;)
Round here swedes are a sort of yellow orangey colour with a purple top
https://www.kingsseeds.com/images/thumbs/0000444_14603-1_415.jpeg
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 11:39:49 +0100, D wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 11:28:42 +0100, D wrote:Of course! Didn't you know that the white swede is a creature of myth
Fascinating! Maybe I should email this suggestion to the sweden
democrat party? (A nationalist party, lest there be any confusion)
Would be superfun if they forced the public tv, very socialist, to end >>>> each day with the national anthem.
Sung by an Ugandan 'Swede'?
that never existed? ;)
So Sweden is Svartálfaheimr?
On 2025-02-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
Ah, but NTSC had a far reaching impact that had nothing to do with TVs.
Because of the TV consumer market 3.57954 MHz crystals were dirt cheap and >> showed up everywhere. I believe some variant of the 8253 PIT still lives
in PCs and runs at 1/3 or 1.19318 MHz. Roll the 16 bit counter over and
you had the 55 msec tick.
The Amiga's clock ran at 7.16 MHz. As a bonus, they could easily generate NTSC video. They were used in a lot of cable TV stations to generate on-screen schedules, etc.
On 02/02/2025 00:24, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:13:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yup. In the UK/Europe the crystals for PAL were 4.something MHz
On 01/02/2025 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:LOL. The US system was truly dire for terrestrial broadcasting and only
The French version of color TV encoding was called SECAM, often
translated as "Supreme Effort Contre les AMericains".
Or "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method".
just acceptable for cable.
PAL was good enough for the rest of the technology
Ah, but NTSC had a far reaching impact that had nothing to do with TVs.
Because of the TV consumer market 3.57954 MHz crystals were dirt cheap
and
showed up everywhere. I believe some variant of the 8253 PIT still lives
in PCs and runs at 1/3 or 1.19318 MHz. Roll the 16 bit counter over and
you had the 55 msec tick.
I use them in a digital design.
PAL crystals were used in some markets to be compatible with the TVs but
never had the off label reach.
I don't actually understand that statement
On 01/02/2025 22:08, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/1/25 2:47 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:Worse than that, Multipath was the killer. Aircraft flying overhead,
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 20:08:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
It was common for US stations to start/end/both with the national >>>>>> anthem or something similar. A test pic of an eagle or something >>>>>> 'patriotic' on the screen. The practice kinda faded in the
latter 60s
once we had been told to be self-loathing.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 2025-02-01, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:The test patterns were dropped as color TV became more popular.
Color TV
drove my uncle crazy. You had to be a little artistic to adjust the
RGB
balance so everyone didn't look like a corpse and he was a techie,
not an
artist.
I remember a "color" (which was really 'saturation') knob, and a "tint" >>>> knob, but don't remember any sets with external knobs to adjust R, G
and B colors (other than maybe in the "no user servicable parts inside" >>>> area...).
But yes, getting color and tint just right so things looked half normal >>>> instead of corpse or nauseated was a real challenge.
The old National Television Standards Committee (NTSC) was sometimes
referred to by the alternative expansion "Never Twice the Same Color".
The "tint" part of the encoding was a phase adjustment on the color
subcarrier. The transmitters tended to have some phase drift.
Hey, it was all analog ... slightest change in
temperature, or a beer can next to the works ...
trees waving in the breeze
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:56:05 +0100, D wrote:
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/blogs/all/fascinating-facts-figures-swedes- turnip
To further confuse the issue... Around here turnips are sometimes called swedes and Swedish turnips are called rutabaga.
Rutabagas are also handy for figuring out if it's a jig or a reel. If you can say ru-ta-ba-ga ru-ta-ba-ga it's a reel.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:56:05 +0100, D wrote:
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/blogs/all/fascinating-facts-figures-swedes-
turnip
To further confuse the issue... Around here turnips are sometimes called
swedes and Swedish turnips are called rutabaga.
Rutabagas are also handy for figuring out if it's a jig or a reel. If you >> can say ru-ta-ba-ga ru-ta-ba-ga it's a reel.
The well of knowledge in comp.os.linux.misc is deep, eternal, and the
range of subjects very wide!
On 2025-02-03, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:56:05 +0100, D wrote:
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/blogs/all/fascinating-facts-figures-swedes- >>> turnip
To further confuse the issue... Around here turnips are sometimes called >>> swedes and Swedish turnips are called rutabaga.
Rutabagas are also handy for figuring out if it's a jig or a reel. If you >>> can say ru-ta-ba-ga ru-ta-ba-ga it's a reel.
One exception, of course, is the Mothers of Invention's _Call Any Vegetable_.
The well of knowledge in comp.os.linux.misc is deep, eternal, and the
range of subjects very wide!
And mindbogglingly eclectic.
On 2025-02-03, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:56:05 +0100, D wrote:
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/blogs/all/fascinating-facts-figures-swedes- >>> turnip
To further confuse the issue... Around here turnips are sometimes called >>> swedes and Swedish turnips are called rutabaga.
Rutabagas are also handy for figuring out if it's a jig or a reel. If you >>> can say ru-ta-ba-ga ru-ta-ba-ga it's a reel.
One exception, of course, is the Mothers of Invention's _Call Any Vegetable_.
The well of knowledge in comp.os.linux.misc is deep, eternal, and the
range of subjects very wide!
And mindbogglingly eclectic.
On 2/3/25 7:36 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-03, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:56:05 +0100, D wrote:
Swede? Is that what you call them? That's funny, never heard before!
https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/blogs/all/fascinating-facts-figures-swedes- >>>> turnip
To further confuse the issue... Around here turnips are sometimes called >>>> swedes and Swedish turnips are called rutabaga.
Rutabagas are also handy for figuring out if it's a jig or a reel. If >>>> you
can say ru-ta-ba-ga ru-ta-ba-ga it's a reel.
One exception, of course, is the Mothers of Invention's _Call Any
Vegetable_.
"... the vegetable may respond to you" :-)
The well of knowledge in comp.os.linux.misc is deep, eternal, and the
range of subjects very wide!
And mindbogglingly eclectic.
Indeed.
"Tekkies" may specialize in something, but the state
of mind spawns endless curiosity all through life and
thus fair expertise across a broad field of subjects.
The prepared mind ......
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