It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as Chat and friends -
but even if it's just "good enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about China politics ...
and it hedged its answers
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjr85l2e4l4t
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14329549/ai-software-tech-google-openai-deepseek-china-startup.html
Chinese start-up DeepSeek sent big tech companies into a
spiral with the release of its Artificial Intelligence chatbot.
DeepSeek's AI Assistant is said to perform on-par with
ChatGPT at a fraction of the price.
After its release in January 2025, it quickly became the
most-downloaded free app on the Apple Store.
The US stock market lost $1 trillion overnight as investors
lost confidence in Western dominance in the AI sector.
. . .
Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.
That our Big AI interests could be so easily
undercut has punished the stock markets -
especially NASDAQ - today.
It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as
Chat and friends - but even if it's just "good
enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about
China politics ... and it hedged its answers :-)
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjr85l2e4l4t
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14329549/ai-software-tech-google-openai-deepseek-china-startup.html
Chinese start-up DeepSeek sent big tech companies into a
spiral with the release of its Artificial Intelligence chatbot.
DeepSeek's AI Assistant is said to perform on-par with
ChatGPT at a fraction of the price.
After its release in January 2025, it quickly became the
most-downloaded free app on the Apple Store.
The US stock market lost $1 trillion overnight as investors
lost confidence in Western dominance in the AI sector.
. . .
Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.
That our Big AI interests could be so easily
undercut has punished the stock markets -
especially NASDAQ - today.
It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as
Chat and friends - but even if it's just "good
enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about
China politics ... and it hedged its answers :-)
Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the
teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
So many questions!
Regardless, readers of this newsgroup will not surprised when the AI
bubble bursts.
Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the
teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 22:23:06 +0100, D wrote:
Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the
teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V3
Trying to steal OpenAI's tech would have set them back years :)
https://www.nextplatform.com/2025/01/27/how-did-deepseek-train-its-ai- model-on-a-lot-less-and-crippled-hardware
Trying to steal OpenAI's tech would have set them back years 🙂Lol!
Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the teach >> and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
It is, allegedly, open source.
So many questions!
Seems they made it work with a lot fewer good chips
than western developers imagined possible - which
means some Different Thinking, different ways to
leverage the hardware. This different thinking was
why Japan shot to the top of the tech pyramid in
the 80s ... brought 'perfection thru simplicity'
to the clunky US/UK designs.
Regardless, readers of this newsgroup will not surprised when the AI bubble >> bursts.
"AI" investment/expectations are decidedly a "bubble"
at this point. It's gonna go bang. Trump wants to throw
a lot more money at it, but it may just be throwing
it into the incinerator. The right time for big govt
investment would be AFTER the incipent crash, AI 2.0
so to speak.
On 1/28/25 12:46 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 22:23:06 +0100, D wrote:
Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the
teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V3
Trying to steal OpenAI's tech would have set them back years :)
https://www.nextplatform.com/2025/01/27/how-did-deepseek-train-its-ai-
model-on-a-lot-less-and-crippled-hardware
This cost NVidia 600 BILLION just yesterday.
Expect more bleeding.
Whomever these developers are, they've found
"it" - a far far better way to encapsulate
the AI paradigm. Genius.
Reminds of Japan in the 80s - turning $1000 chips
into $100 chips just by Thinking Differently.
This is really a MAJOR THING. It's gonna have
far-ranging impacts.
Stay tuned.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:24:51 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I guess they benefited by being late to the game, and could discard
ways and methods that were choosen in the US?
More like a bunch of sleazoid grifters playing fake-it-'til-you-make-it
with complex problems in an *extraordinarily* complex field of study
'cause the Ponzi scheme that was their last big hype bubble has started
to dry up are, um, maybe not very good at software engineering.
...Nah. Couldn't be.
Interesting! Then we will have the answers to a lot of questions in
time. Note also how china is trying to stunt the growth of US AI
companies to stop them from becoming too powerful.
Hardly "powerful" when the core product is still a glorified party
trick, Dissociated Press on steroids, which was *never* going to do the
kind of things OpenAI has been desperately trying to convince everyone
it will Real Soon Now; even Winnie-the-Pooh's version is not going to magically overcome the fundamental limitations of LLMs.
The explanation is laughably simple: they saw a way to burn a couple
months' blood, sweat & tears and a few million bucks and, in exchange,
they got to humiliate the US tech sector and the political faction that
crowd has been sucking up to & absolutely *dynamite* a major investment bubble that was getting ready to pop of natural causes months or years
ahead of schedule. Pooh is probably knocking back honeypots in Beijing
and giggling to himself like that Muppet gremlin in "Return of the
Jedi" right now; God knows I'd be.
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
In any case, China HAS managed to do serious damage to the "AI
Bubble". That's gonna COST us big-time and undermine future investor
confidence.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:10:02 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
In any case, China HAS managed to do serious damage to the "AI
Bubble". That's gonna COST us big-time and undermine future investor
confidence.
Better now than after we bought a $500 billion Stargate to nowhere.
Someone needs to give some serious thought to the CHIPS program too.
On 1/28/25 8:15 PM, The Doctor wrote:
In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
It will be *everywhere* inside a week or two.
In any case, China HAS managed to do serious
damage to the "AI Bubble". That's gonna COST
us big-time and undermine future investor
confidence.
. . .
Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
On 29/01/2025 03:10, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/28/25 8:15 PM, The Doctor wrote:
In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very >>>>> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble >>>>> along, they would be happy too.
Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
It will be *everywhere* inside a week or two.
In any case, China HAS managed to do serious
damage to the "AI Bubble". That's gonna COST
us big-time and undermine future investor
confidence.
There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it to increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much about AI as I do, and that's little enough.
There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100, D wrote:
I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but more
refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
along, they would be happy too.
The US tried to cripple them by limiting Nvidia exports. They made do with second tier GPUs.
It's interesting how an awful communist dictatorship open sourced the
whole thing plus a long paper on how they did it while Microsoft, Meta, OpenAI and the others are only interested in their bottom line.
Mao to the contrary I think China is really a successful national
socialist country.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:10:02 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
In any case, China HAS managed to do serious damage to the "AI
Bubble". That's gonna COST us big-time and undermine future investor
confidence.
The bubble was due to burst anyway. "Generative AI" is a cocktail of
snake oil and party tricks, pumped up by vulture capitalists selling a
dream to corporate ghouls of being able to fire everyone who actually
makes their business function and replace them with ChatGPT - but LLMs
are never going to do what Sam Altman flagrantly fibs about them doing,
and the more they push it as Good For What Ails Ya, the more obvious
its limitations become (anybody want to try my new wood-glue-and-
sawdust pizza? It's the talk of the town!)
We were already seeing the seismic rumblings of an impending bust last
fall, when Goldman-Sachs put out a report asking "...but wait, what if
all this money we're burning on AI *doesn't* actually pay off in the
end?" (And just stop to consider: when the people who were just fine
with *subprime mortgage bundling* think an investment might be too
stupid and risky...!) The longer this farce plays out before the
collapse, the worse the damage will be; far better to put a stake
through its heart *now.* If anything, we should be thanking them for
ripping the bandaid off, nevermind that they did it to mess with us.
(I'd highly encourage anyone trying to wrap their head around this
whole circus to check out Ed Zitron - https://www.wheresyoured.at/ - who
has done a ton of good coverage on this over the last couple years.)
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it
to increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much
about AI as I do, and that's little enough.
There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.
What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?
I have no tech in my portfolio. Since I work with tech, I tend to like
what the masses don't. So I stay away from it. ;)
"At my age, going back means giving red envelopes to the younger
generation, and I simply don't have the money to do that," he told the Financial Times.
How the economy in China and Sweden fared China Sweden
GDP growth 5.0% 0.6%
Inflation 0.2% 2.8%
Unemployment 5.1% 8.4%
Public debt/GDP 84% 34%
Note: Swedish figures are Nordea's latest forecast. China's figures are
a combination of outcome and forecast
Source: Nordea, IMF
On 29/01/2025 14:18, D wrote:
"At my age, going back means giving red envelopes to the younger
generation, and I simply don't have the money to do that," he told the
Financial Times.
How the economy in China and Sweden fared China Sweden
GDP growth 5.0% 0.6%
Inflation 0.2% 2.8%
Unemployment 5.1% 8.4%
Public debt/GDP 84% 34%
Note: Swedish figures are Nordea's latest forecast. China's figures are a
combination of outcome and forecast
Source: Nordea, IMF
The problem is the rise of fairly dictatorial governments everywhere who think that:-
- economists actually understand and can accurately model, economies.
- economic policy from a centralised authority can make *wealth* appear by magic.
Any fool can create *jobs* by taxing wealth producers and redistributing it via make-work public sector jobs.
But to create *wealth* requires that people can make a living out of adding value and selling the product.
But over regulation strangles this. I would never start a company in this country or the UK again, now. One smile at a female employee would be 'micro aggression' and if a male employee turned up in a frock I wouldn't be able to sack him for being stupid.
It's all big corporates who can afford the overhead of managing this nonsense. Startups cant afford to.
I think people know this and that is why more conservative political forces are gaining ground.
Postmodern Marxism has jumped the shark.
On 29/01/2025 14:22, D wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it to
increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much about >>> AI as I do, and that's little enough.
There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.
What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?
I have no tech in my portfolio. Since I work with tech, I tend to like what >> the masses don't. So I stay away from it. ;)
Plus a few speculative gambles.
The fund I bought into is global technology accumulation, BUT they also will hedge into cash in falling markets and buy long to amplify market movements.
No financial adviser would consider them safe, but they have really delivered consistent returns. It just so happens that at the height of the pandemic tech got a huge boost, and although it sagged later, its all very fashionable with the markets, whereas energy has it seemed almost peaked out.
The trick with investing is to follow the herd. You may thereby only see arseholes, but who cares if you can make 10% ROI?
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
And D, what are "k8s"?
I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think that's it, either.
On 29/01/2025 14:18, D wrote:
"At my age, going back means giving red envelopes to the younger
generation, and I simply don't have the money to do that," he told the
Financial Times.
How the economy in China and Sweden fared China Sweden
GDP growth 5.0% 0.6%
Inflation 0.2% 2.8%
Unemployment 5.1% 8.4%
Public debt/GDP 84% 34%
Note: Swedish figures are Nordea's latest forecast. China's figures are
a combination of outcome and forecast
Source: Nordea, IMF
The problem is the rise of fairly dictatorial governments everywhere who think that:-
- economists actually understand and can accurately model, economies.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
And D, what are "k8s"?
I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think that's it, either.
... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds directly.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
And D, what are "k8s"?
I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think
that's it, either.
Hello Lars! k8s stands for kubernetes. Googles cloud orchestration
software their made open source. Somewhat good for large companies,
useless for most smaller ones, and potentially useless for largerones as well. ;)
I took over an online platform recently, and the creators built it on
k8s with lasers on top! I got it because it cost them too much to run relative to what it generated.
The first thing I did, when I carefully placed it into the hands of my technical colleague was to tell him to rip out all the k8s stuff with violence.
He did, and we lowered the operating cost with 70% or so. That means it
is now profitable. This has proven the power of the traditional way over
the k8s way to my great satisfaction! =D
Hmm, makes me wonder... I wonder how many more hipster out there are
running services at a loss, so that I can take over their platforms for
free, de-k8s them, and then run them at a profit? =D
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that is
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that is
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
On 30/01/2025 17:47, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
And D, what are "k8s"?
I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think >>> that's it, either.
Hello Lars! k8s stands for kubernetes. Googles cloud orchestration software >> their made open source. Somewhat good for large companies, useless for most >> smaller ones, and potentially useless for largerones as well. ;)
I took over an online platform recently, and the creators built it on k8s
with lasers on top! I got it because it cost them too much to run relative >> to what it generated.
The first thing I did, when I carefully placed it into the hands of my
technical colleague was to tell him to rip out all the k8s stuff with
violence.
He did, and we lowered the operating cost with 70% or so. That means it is >> now profitable. This has proven the power of the traditional way over the
k8s way to my great satisfaction! =D
Hmm, makes me wonder... I wonder how many more hipster out there are
running services at a loss, so that I can take over their platforms for
free, de-k8s them, and then run them at a profit? =D
My business partner wanted us to use Lotus Notes. I refused with extreme prejudice. The business survived
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, >>>>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds >>> directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the markets. Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation. >>>
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone >>>>>> else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and
bonds
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't >>> you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the
markets. Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will >>> get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
You are a high performer! My aim is to get enough RoI to be able to live
on the dividends alone. Anything beyond that is extra and highly
appreciated. =)
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone
else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds >>> directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the markets.
Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
On 1/30/25 4:05 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone >>>>>> else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and
bonds
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't >>> you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the
markets. Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will >>> get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
Now take that gold doubloon to the convenience store
and try to buy some Twinkies and a beer :-)
Like many hard assets, gold is only worth what the
next guy thinks he can sell it for. Frankly I'm not
even sure where in town I could convert a gold coin
to paper money or anything else, there's just no
infrastructure anymore for using gold as 'real money'.
Hell, the convenience store clerk would have to have
an x-ray florescence spectrometer to even tell gold
from gold-plate, or brass, or bismuth. You can take
a hot air gun and change a USA 25-cent piece to a really
nice gold color ... but it's not gold.
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
On 30/01/2025 21:25, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> ... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone >>>>>>> else*,Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds >>>>> directly.TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago. >>>>
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't >>>> you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the markets.
Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will >>>> get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about >>>>> £80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
You are a high performer! My aim is to get enough RoI to be able to live on >> the dividends alone. Anything beyond that is extra and highly appreciated. >> =)
Ah. Well my state pension takes me to the tax limit, so I go for capital gains with no dividends. I have a lot of capital losses to write off from years ago .
I only need a small top up for the pension., I don't spend a lot of cash - its amazing how cheap it all is once you get rid of a crazy wife.
On 1/30/25 4:05 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone >>>>>> else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds >>>> directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't >>> you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the markets.
Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that isI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will >>> get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation. >>>>
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about
£80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
Now take that gold doubloon to the convenience store
and try to buy some Twinkies and a beer :-)
Like many hard assets, gold is only worth what the
next guy thinks he can sell it for. Frankly I'm not
even sure where in town I could convert a gold coin
to paper money or anything else, there's just no
infrastructure anymore for using gold as 'real money'.
Hell, the convenience store clerk would have to have
an x-ray florescence spectrometer to even tell gold
from gold-plate, or brass, or bismuth. You can take
a hot air gun and change a USA 25-cent piece to a really
nice gold color ... but it's not gold.
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 21:25, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> ... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed byMost of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:someone else*,
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and >>>>>> bondsTNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with >>>>> most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years
ago.
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market,
wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of >>>>> other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the
markets. Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that is >>>>> really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has >>>>> done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probablyI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about >>>>>> £80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
You are a high performer! My aim is to get enough RoI to be able to
live on the dividends alone. Anything beyond that is extra and highly
appreciated. =)
Ah. Well my state pension takes me to the tax limit, so I go for
capital gains with no dividends. I have a lot of capital losses to
write off from years ago .
I only need a small top up for the pension., I don't spend a lot of
cash - its amazing how cheap it all is once you get rid of a crazy wife.
Ahh... that makes sense. You are a lucky man who has a pensionplan that actually pays out something! ;)
I'm a few decades behind, so my pension will be laughable. That's why I
have the focus I have, and any eventual pension money will just be
pocket change.
Hmm, come to think of it, it is not entirely impossible that my
self-managed pension account from when I had regular jobs, might
actually be equal too or far bigger than my government pension even
though it only consisted of 10% of the premiums.
That would be an enormous show of force for doing it yourself,
alternatively, how badly the government runs stuff.
Ahh... and the government wasted about 200 million euro of pensions on Northvolt. They are retards!
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
For WW3 security, add a good, happy and local community as well.
On 31/01/2025 12:40, D wrote:
No. That is purely the state pension.
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 21:25, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2025 20:19, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> ... I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone >>>>>>>>> else*,Most of them actually do that exact thing.
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and >>>>>>> bondsTNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
directly.
My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with >>>>>> most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago. >>>>>>
If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market,
wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of >>>>>> other people?
But the results are there. Some managers consistently beat the markets. >>>>> Some funds habitually fail to return anything.
The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that is >>>>>> really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has >>>>>> done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably >>>>>> willI aim for 20% but am happy to accept 10..
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.
Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against
inflation.
£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about >>>>>>> £80,000 now...
That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.
You are a high performer! My aim is to get enough RoI to be able to live >>>> on the dividends alone. Anything beyond that is extra and highly
appreciated. =)
Ah. Well my state pension takes me to the tax limit, so I go for capital >>> gains with no dividends. I have a lot of capital losses to write off from >>> years ago .
I only need a small top up for the pension., I don't spend a lot of cash - >>> its amazing how cheap it all is once you get rid of a crazy wife.
Ahh... that makes sense. You are a lucky man who has a pensionplan that
actually pays out something! ;)
My other pension I now manage but it doesn't pay out because of tax.
The third thing is a pure lump of cash invested in the markets. I take that as capital gains but never reach any taxable amount
I'm a few decades behind, so my pension will be laughable. That's why II assumed by the time I got old the government pension schemes would have collapsed.
have the focus I have, and any eventual pension money will just be pocket
change.
Hmm, come to think of it, it is not entirely impossible that my
self-managed pension account from when I had regular jobs, might actually
be equal too or far bigger than my government pension even though it only
consisted of 10% of the premiums.
That would be an enormous show of force for doing it yourself,
alternatively, how badly the government runs stuff.
Ahh... and the government wasted about 200 million euro of pensions on
Northvolt. They are retards!
Of course they are. Who else goes into government?
On 1/31/25 7:46 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
For WW3 security, add a good, happy and local community as well.
I've mentioned that to some 'prepper' types, but
they're convinced the should lace their property
with land mines and fire on anything that moves.
If it's THAT bad then they likely won't last a week
before marauders get 'em. Ya gotta sleep sometime.
A mutually-supportive community is what you need,
everybody can do their bit and add their skills
and also kinda be yer Army.
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/31/25 7:46 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
For WW3 security, add a good, happy and local community as well.
I've mentioned that to some 'prepper' types, but
they're convinced the should lace their property
with land mines and fire on anything that moves.
If it's THAT bad then they likely won't last a week
before marauders get 'em. Ya gotta sleep sometime.
This is the truth! I always think to myself, how would I attack a man
with 10 AR-15:s and bullet proofs vests hiding in his house? I would
burn down the house! Worked for the vikings, and I'm sure it would work equally well 1000 years later. ;)
A mutually-supportive community is what you need,
everybody can do their bit and add their skills
and also kinda be yer Army.
This is the truth!
On 1/31/25 5:48 PM, D wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/31/25 7:46 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
So, nothing against having some gold coin, but you
are gonna be more liquid using some more intangible
forms of currency. If you want WW3-proof, well, a
big barn full of whisky, toilet paper, tampons and
some heavily-preserved food-like stuffs such as
Twinkies. In some areas you can add antibiotics
and opium. These are what would be "most valuable".
For WW3 security, add a good, happy and local community as well.
I've mentioned that to some 'prepper' types, but
they're convinced the should lace their property
with land mines and fire on anything that moves.
If it's THAT bad then they likely won't last a week
before marauders get 'em. Ya gotta sleep sometime.
This is the truth! I always think to myself, how would I attack a man with >> 10 AR-15:s and bullet proofs vests hiding in his house? I would burn down
the house! Worked for the vikings, and I'm sure it would work equally well >> 1000 years later. ;)
But you might damage the whisky bottles !!!
Better to just *harass* him for about 10 days
straight so he can't sleep and goes insane.
He will use up all his ammo shooting at the
imaginary pterodactyls in his living room.
A mutually-supportive community is what you need,
everybody can do their bit and add their skills
and also kinda be yer Army.
This is the truth!
It's probably all the post-apocalypse books
and movies since Russia got The Bomb ... it
predisposes people towards a "stand alone
against all" mentality.
Oh well, if Prepper John keeps shooting at
all passer-by, just doze up a dirt wall
and check back every few months to see if
he's finally died.
It's probably all the post-apocalypse books
and movies since Russia got The Bomb ... it
predisposes people towards a "stand alone
against all" mentality.
Oh well, if Prepper John keeps shooting at
all passer-by, just doze up a dirt wall
and check back every few months to see if
he's finally died.
On 2025-02-01, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
It's probably all the post-apocalypse books
and movies since Russia got The Bomb ... it
predisposes people towards a "stand alone
against all" mentality.
Oh well, if Prepper John keeps shooting at
all passer-by, just doze up a dirt wall
and check back every few months to see if
he's finally died.
A good contemporary story dealing with it is Cory Doctorow's
_Masque of the Red Death_, from his anthology _Radicalized_.
The other three stories in the book are also well worth reading,
especially _Unauthorized Bread_.
Masque of the red death is an edgar allan poe story.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:10:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Masque of the red death is an edgar allan poe story.
Doctorow took the title and theme into the 21st century.
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there was a Brit horror flik
with Vincent Price that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 23:10:21 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:Yeah : I read 'the pit and the pendulum' at a pretty young age and had nightmares afterwards. Think the same volume had the masque and the fall
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there was a Brit horror flik
with Vincent Price that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
Roger Corman did it twice. Price was in the first one. Netflix has a
series 'The Fall of the House of Usher' very loosely based on Poe's
stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_the_House_of_Usher_(miniseries)
On 2025-02-01, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
It's probably all the post-apocalypse books
and movies since Russia got The Bomb ... it
predisposes people towards a "stand alone
against all" mentality.
Oh well, if Prepper John keeps shooting at
all passer-by, just doze up a dirt wall
and check back every few months to see if
he's finally died.
A good contemporary story dealing with it is Cory Doctorow's
_Masque of the Red Death_, from his anthology _Radicalized_.
The other three stories in the book are also well worth reading,
especially _Unauthorized Bread_.
On 2/1/25 7:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:10:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Masque of the red death is an edgar allan poe story.
Doctorow took the title and theme into the 21st century.
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there
was a Brit horror flik with Vincent Price
that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
As slowly revealed, Poe was a real polymath who
delved into all sorts of subjects including
sci/tech and astronomy. The ghoulish stories
were just a profitable sideline.
To this day nobody knows what killed him. The
theory he was a major addict was the invention
of a hated rival news reporter.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/1/25 7:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:10:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Masque of the red death is an edgar allan poe story.
Doctorow took the title and theme into the 21st century.
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there
was a Brit horror flik with Vincent Price
that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
As slowly revealed, Poe was a real polymath who
delved into all sorts of subjects including
sci/tech and astronomy. The ghoulish stories
were just a profitable sideline.
To this day nobody knows what killed him. The
theory he was a major addict was the invention
of a hated rival news reporter.
I thought the prevailing theory is that he still walks among us?
Apparently one of his private projects looking into immortality bore
fruit, and he became immortal.
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-01, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
It's probably all the post-apocalypse books
and movies since Russia got The Bomb ... it
predisposes people towards a "stand alone
against all" mentality.
Oh well, if Prepper John keeps shooting at
all passer-by, just doze up a dirt wall
and check back every few months to see if
he's finally died.
A good contemporary story dealing with it is Cory Doctorow's
_Masque of the Red Death_, from his anthology _Radicalized_.
The other three stories in the book are also well worth reading,
especially _Unauthorized Bread_.
Are they deep? I like the theme of his books, but his writing and stories seem a bit shallow to me sometimes.
Are they deep? I like the theme of his books, but his writing and
stories seem a bit shallow to me sometimes.
On 02/02/2025 10:46, D wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/1/25 7:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:10:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Masque of the red death is an edgar allan poe story.
Doctorow took the title and theme into the 21st century.
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there
was a Brit horror flik with Vincent Price
that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
As slowly revealed, Poe was a real polymath who
delved into all sorts of subjects including
sci/tech and astronomy. The ghoulish stories
were just a profitable sideline.
To this day nobody knows what killed him. The
theory he was a major addict was the invention
of a hated rival news reporter.
I thought the prevailing theory is that he still walks among us? Apparently >> one of his private projects looking into immortality bore fruit, and he
became immortal.
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
Not a lot of Cthulu cultists here I suspect.
If you have ever read Charles Stross's 'Laundry files' he parodies just about every SF/horror author going.
Highly recommended if you have worked in IT.
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 11:43:56 +0100, D wrote:
Are they deep? I like the theme of his books, but his writing and
stories seem a bit shallow to me sometimes.
I enjoyed his 'Red Team Blues'. He's written another with the Hench character but I haven't read it. It seemed well researched although cryptocurrency isn't my thing.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 23:10:21 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I mostly remember Poe ... and I think there was a Brit horror flik
with Vincent Price that didn't stick very closely to the Poe story.
Roger Corman did it twice. Price was in the first one. Netflix has a
series 'The Fall of the House of Usher' very loosely based on Poe's
stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_the_House_of_Usher_(miniseries)
Well, let's see... I read little brother and I think one other, and
although there were good points and nice extrapolation from the theme,
his writing didn't quite appeal to me. But we'll see.
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 11:46:53 +0100, D wrote:
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
Lovecraft was an antisemitic racist. He would have a ball with today's US cities as they descend into decadence.
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 22:02:40 +0100, D wrote:
Well, let's see... I read little brother and I think one other, and
although there were good points and nice extrapolation from the theme,
his writing didn't quite appeal to me. But we'll see.
I never read 'Little Brother'. When I go to the library I usually scan
the shelves for the author. That series is shelved in YA. I don't know
where that is in the new library but the old one had a separate kids
section and I felt out of place.
I can't remember the author or the book but I did make the trek once. I
was surprised it had been tagged as YA. I asked a librarian and she said
they go with whatever the publisher calls it. It wasn't obscene but it
didn't seem to fit the genre.
I think kids should be able to read whatever they want to but if you have
a special category there must be some criteria.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 22:02:40 +0100, D wrote:
Well, let's see... I read little brother and I think one other, and
although there were good points and nice extrapolation from the theme,
his writing didn't quite appeal to me. But we'll see.
I never read 'Little Brother'. When I go to the library I usually scan
the shelves for the author. That series is shelved in YA. I don't know
where that is in the new library but the old one had a separate kids
section and I felt out of place.
I can't remember the author or the book but I did make the trek once. I
was surprised it had been tagged as YA. I asked a librarian and she said
they go with whatever the publisher calls it. It wasn't obscene but it
didn't seem to fit the genre.
I think kids should be able to read whatever they want to but if you have
a special category there must be some criteria.
Wasn't there a lot of noise about some states banning certain books in
school libraries some months ago?
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages, and I wish the young of today
would become ninja readers!
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 11:46:53 +0100, D wrote:Many historical persons, artists, scientists etc. were antisemitic
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
Lovecraft was an antisemitic racist. He would have a ball with today's
US cities as they descend into decadence.
racists. I do not care at all, and I certainly do not judge them by
todays standards. I still enjoy their books and music. But to each his
own. ;)
There are 'books' - and then there's 'political propaganda'.
In any case, the books aren't "banned" - you can buy 'em on Amazon if
you want - it's just that The State isn't gonna pay to keep them in
public institutions anymore.
Wasn't there a lot of noise about some states banning certain books in
school libraries some months ago?
There are 'books' - and then there's 'political propaganda'.
In any case, the books aren't "banned" - you can buy 'em on
Amazon if you want - it's just that The State isn't gonna
pay to keep them in public institutions anymore.
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages, and I wish the young of today would >> become ninja readers!
LONG back we were taught intensely and intelligently.
Rare to find any student going into grade 3 that was
not a good reader/writer.
Today however ........ everyone is supposed to let the
very lowest common denominator set the standard so
nobody will 'feel bad'.
Another good reason for Trump to nuke the federal
Dept Of Ed and every brain-dead Wokie he can find
in that business.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 22:51:31 +0100, D wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 11:46:53 +0100, D wrote:Many historical persons, artists, scientists etc. were antisemitic
Now what about Lovecraft? Any love for Lovecraft in this group?
Lovecraft was an antisemitic racist. He would have a ball with today's
US cities as they descend into decadence.
racists. I do not care at all, and I certainly do not judge them by
todays standards. I still enjoy their books and music. But to each his
own. ;)
I forgot the emoji for 'tongue in cheek'.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Wasn't there a lot of noise about some states banning certain books
in school libraries some months ago?
There are 'books' - and then there's 'political propaganda'.
In any case, the books aren't "banned" - you can buy 'em on
Amazon if you want - it's just that The State isn't gonna
pay to keep them in public institutions anymore.
Ahh... not as sinister as projected by the mainstream media then. =)
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages, and I wish the young of today
would become ninja readers!
LONG back we were taught intensely and intelligently.
Rare to find any student going into grade 3 that was
not a good reader/writer.
Today however ........ everyone is supposed to let the
very lowest common denominator set the standard so
nobody will 'feel bad'.
This is the truth! In sweden, youngsters are no longer allowed to keep
the score
in football games, and no winners are declared in order not to hurt anyones feelings. The result I predict, will be stunted fairies who will break
down and
cry at the slightest bump in the road in their life.
Another good reason for Trump to nuke the federal
Dept Of Ed and every brain-dead Wokie he can find
in that business.
Oh... you mean the department of indoctrination?
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages,
and I wish the young of today would become ninja readers!
On 2/4/25 11:33 AM, D wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Wasn't there a lot of noise about some states banning certain books in >>>> school libraries some months ago?
There are 'books' - and then there's 'political propaganda'.
In any case, the books aren't "banned" - you can buy 'em on
Amazon if you want - it's just that The State isn't gonna
pay to keep them in public institutions anymore.
Ahh... not as sinister as projected by the mainstream media then. =)
They'd want people to believe the 'Firemen' are going
door to door and incinerating all gay-themed material :-)
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages, and I wish the young of today
would become ninja readers!
LONG back we were taught intensely and intelligently.
Rare to find any student going into grade 3 that was
not a good reader/writer.
Today however ........ everyone is supposed to let the
very lowest common denominator set the standard so
nobody will 'feel bad'.
This is the truth! In sweden, youngsters are no longer allowed to keep the >> score
in football games, and no winners are declared in order not to hurt anyones >> feelings. The result I predict, will be stunted fairies who will break down >> and
cry at the slightest bump in the road in their life.
Good luck when the Russians arrive ......
Another good reason for Trump to nuke the federal
Dept Of Ed and every brain-dead Wokie he can find
in that business.
Oh... you mean the department of indoctrination?
Well, truth, it's kinda always been thus.
My youth was during the Cold War and there
were efforts to inculcate 'patriotism' and
pro-militarism and 'Christian values' to
counter them damned Godless Commies.
There was one REQUIRED course ... the text book
was called "Americanism -vs- Communism" and they
usually had an old mil vet as the teacher.
But at least that crap kinda left the kiddies
feeling empowered - instead of mentally crushed
and confused like today's Wokie garbage. In
short, 50s-80s they wanted to create 'warriors'
while 90s on the goal was to create simpering
weirdo wimps who just LOVE Big (Tranny) Brother.
It'd be great if they just QUIT with the indoc
stuff ... but I don't think govts can resist
the urge. A required course on ETHICS would
be the far better approach.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages,
Well some man pages are terribly written too.
and I wish the young of today would become ninja readers!
Ninja writers would be even better. What happened to the people who
used to write HOWTOs on The Linux Documentation Project? It's now
been ten years since anything was updated there. But it's still an
excellent source for some info that's tricky to find with web
searches and skimmed over in man pages.
On Tue, 4 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/4/25 11:33 AM, D wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Wasn't there a lot of noise about some states banning certain books
in school libraries some months ago?
There are 'books' - and then there's 'political propaganda'.
In any case, the books aren't "banned" - you can buy 'em on
Amazon if you want - it's just that The State isn't gonna
pay to keep them in public institutions anymore.
Ahh... not as sinister as projected by the mainstream media then. =)
They'd want people to believe the 'Firemen' are going
door to door and incinerating all gay-themed material :-)
Yes, makes sense. If not drama, it won't catch on with the public. ;)
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages, and I wish the young of
today would become ninja readers!
LONG back we were taught intensely and intelligently.
Rare to find any student going into grade 3 that was
not a good reader/writer.
Today however ........ everyone is supposed to let the
very lowest common denominator set the standard so
nobody will 'feel bad'.
This is the truth! In sweden, youngsters are no longer allowed to
keep the score
in football games, and no winners are declared in order not to hurt
anyones
feelings. The result I predict, will be stunted fairies who will
break down and
cry at the slightest bump in the road in their life.
Good luck when the Russians arrive ......
Exactly! On the other hand, 10 000 000 against 140 000 000 means there
would be no chance anyway, so nothing to worry about. ;)
Another good reason for Trump to nuke the federal
Dept Of Ed and every brain-dead Wokie he can find
in that business.
Oh... you mean the department of indoctrination?
Well, truth, it's kinda always been thus.
My youth was during the Cold War and there
were efforts to inculcate 'patriotism' and
pro-militarism and 'Christian values' to
counter them damned Godless Commies.
Did it work?
There was one REQUIRED course ... the text book
was called "Americanism -vs- Communism" and they
usually had an old mil vet as the teacher.
Do you know how to... "duck and cover!" ? ;) Hmm, this reminds me of
starship troopers.
But at least that crap kinda left the kiddies
feeling empowered - instead of mentally crushed
and confused like today's Wokie garbage. In
short, 50s-80s they wanted to create 'warriors'
while 90s on the goal was to create simpering
weirdo wimps who just LOVE Big (Tranny) Brother.
Are you saying this continued in the 80s? This is very interesting! I
wonder if Trump is planning on reviving some of that? I mean, the books surely are somewhere in a dusty warehouse, so just bring them back, and
in no time (or maybe a generation) the US will be back on its feet! =)
It'd be great if they just QUIT with the indoc
stuff ... but I don't think govts can resist
the urge. A required course on ETHICS would
be the far better approach.
Of course not. In sweden every time there is a change from the left to
the right or back, the first thing they do is to redesign the school
system. You have to start indoctrinating them early for it to stick! ;)
Oh... what do I spy in todays mainstream meadia... a school shooting in sweden with 10 dead. This is a sad high score for sweden. Note that
sweden has very strict gun laws, so apparently strict gun laws does not
solve the problem.
I expect sweden to outlaw fireworks and eventually require a license on
tooth picks to show the public that the government is "acting". I expect
it will achieve very little.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
I think that children should read more. I see how my students are
struggling with the simplest man pages,
Well some man pages are terribly written too.
and I wish the young of today would become ninja readers!
Ninja writers would be even better. What happened to the people who
used to write HOWTOs on The Linux Documentation Project? It's now
been ten years since anything was updated there. But it's still an
excellent source for some info that's tricky to find with web
searches and skimmed over in man pages.
Exactly! On the other hand, 10 000 000 against 140 000 000 means there
would be no chance anyway, so nothing to worry about. ;)
Oh well then, you're doomed. Better learn to
read Cyrillic :-)
Did it work?
They went overboard ... which kinda provoked,
inside USA culture anyway, the exact opposite
reaction. The WokieComs then built on that.
Unintended consequences ...
Americans are just kinda naturally "contrary".
Rebel scum to the end :-)
There was one REQUIRED course ... the text book
was called "Americanism -vs- Communism" and they
usually had an old mil vet as the teacher.
Do you know how to... "duck and cover!" ? ;) Hmm, this reminds me of
starship troopers.
They had D&C drills ...
ONE teacher would set off an old photoflash
bulb at random times and see how fast everyone
would D&C ....
Yea, THAT bad.
Those old mangesium+oxygen bulbs were BRIGHT
and BLINDING ......
But at least that crap kinda left the kiddies
feeling empowered - instead of mentally crushed
and confused like today's Wokie garbage. In
short, 50s-80s they wanted to create 'warriors'
while 90s on the goal was to create simpering
weirdo wimps who just LOVE Big (Tranny) Brother.
Are you saying this continued in the 80s? This is very interesting! I
wonder if Trump is planning on reviving some of that? I mean, the books
surely are somewhere in a dusty warehouse, so just bring them back, and in >> no time (or maybe a generation) the US will be back on its feet! =)
The end of the Cold War didn't happen until
after Reagan.
Shit, even DURING Reagan the Russian sats THOUGHT
they saw American missile launches. ONE Russian officer
called bullshit - against "Launch On Warning" orders -
and saved the world. He was demoted .....
It'd be great if they just QUIT with the indoc
stuff ... but I don't think govts can resist
the urge. A required course on ETHICS would
be the far better approach.
Of course not. In sweden every time there is a change from the left to the >> right or back, the first thing they do is to redesign the school system.
You have to start indoctrinating them early for it to stick! ;)
Gullible minds ... you always want to stuff them
with The Truth (as seen by the current regime)
Oh... what do I spy in todays mainstream meadia... a school shooting in
sweden with 10 dead. This is a sad high score for sweden. Note that sweden >> has very strict gun laws, so apparently strict gun laws does not solve the >> problem.
Reported that event elsewhere ... SOME claim it only
happens in the evil USA.
I guess the UK is "better" ... a gang will surround you
and stick the knives in. Quieter, cheaper, bigger pool
of blood .......
I expect sweden to outlaw fireworks and eventually require a license on
tooth picks to show the public that the government is "acting". I expect it >> will achieve very little.
BANANAS ! The ultimate lethal weapon !!!
As for Sweden ... ummmmmmm ... at this point I just
don't see a good future. Ya did it to yourselves.
Best intentions ..........
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