• More on Chinas population.

    From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 22:35:41 2025
    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China
    itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one
    knows what China's real population is except for China's leaders who may
    well be overstating the population for countless reasons such as to look stronger than they are. Data that comes out of China has always been
    considered unreliable because democracy, transparency, and freedom of
    the press do not exist in China. Demographers such as Yi Fuxian stated
    that China's population was closer to 1.2 billion than the official 1.4 billion. China has had a 1 child policy for almost 40 years from
    1979-2015. A fertility rate of 2.1 is needed just to keep the population
    the same - so how could China gain 300 million from 1990-2020 when its
    overall fertility rate was only about 1.5? And that figure is based off official statistics - the real fertility rate could be as low as 1.0 as
    noted by experts like Yi Fuxian.

    Western countries kept gaining population despite low fertility rates
    because of immigration - China does not get any immigrants - so how
    could its population rise from 1.1 billion in 1990 to 1.4 billion in
    2020? How could China have gained 300 million with a low fertility rate
    and no massive scale immigration? Some will say that China's population
    growth still had momentum but other countries like India had 860 million
    in 1990 and had 1.4 billion by 2020 despite a far higher fertility rate
    of 3.0 and more momentum. How is it possible that China's population
    grew similarly to India despite a far lower fertility rate and less
    momentum? Even taking into account life expectancy does not explain
    things as the life expectancy in China only rose by 10 years from
    1990-2020 while it rose higher in India by 12 years in the same time
    period. The death rate in China is also a lot higher than in India due
    to high corruption, pollution, and suicides. China also lost at least
    millions if not tens of millions if not hundreds of millions to the
    coronavirus and suffered more from Covid than other countries.

    I will present some videos that you do not have to or even need to watch
    - but I recommend the videos by Lei’s Real Talk as she presents
    substantial evidence and reasoning for her claims.

    This video titled "How I used AI to calculate China’s real population" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftcLM3502_8&t=31s) by Lei's Real Talk
    states that when the official fertility rate of 1.7 from 1990-2020 was
    used for ChatGPT's population calculator - China's population should
    have dropped from 1.14 billion in 1990 to 890 million in 2020 instead of increasing to 1.41 billion like in the official statistics. The same
    method was applied to India and it found that the population should have increased from 870 million to 1.43 billion which was almost the same as
    India's official population of 1.38 billion. So it seems like India's population statistics are more accurate. It is suspicious that China
    still has a larger population than India in 2020 despite a way lower
    fertility rate, greater emigration to other countries, and higher death
    rate.

    That same video decided to use the likely lower than officially reported fertility rate for China between 2000-2010 of 1.1 and the population
    calculator calculated that China's real population for 2020 was only 695 million as opposed to the official 1.41 billion. All of that is not
    taking into account Covid deaths.

    This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rankZJu3K1g - estimates
    that China lost between 200-600 million to Covid. China had experienced
    the disappearance of more than 21 million cell phone accounts all the
    way back in early 2020 when Covid started to spread which might indicate
    a high death toll from Covid and this was only the start of Covid about
    5 years ago - since then, hundreds of millions of weak and vulnerable
    old people could have died due to Covid.

    It is believed that China's economy might only be 40% of the official statistics due to the fact that economic growth is correlated with
    increased electricity consumption and yet - the amount of night lights
    from China seen by satellites does not correlate with economic growth,
    this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5A5Eu0ra3I - goes into
    detail. If China's population is only 40% of the official figures - that
    would explain why China's economy is only 40% the size of the official
    economic data.

    The Russians even conducted their own study in which they added up all
    the officially stated population of cities in China and got 280 million inhabitants and assuming that the ratio of urban-rural inhabitants in
    China is about 1-1 - they concluded that China's real population is
    between 500-800 million. This video by Lei's Real Talk explains it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3zhCCCYVeA&t=76s - the Japanese also
    came to the same conclusion as the Russians after realizing that salt consumption in China halved which could indicate a significant decline
    in the population due to demographic crisis and Covid deaths.

    This other video by Lei’s Real Talk titled "China’s vanishing population and the lie of 1.4 billion people" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsIg-_5Yl_8) states that 200-500
    million died from Covid and shows video evidence of depopulated cities
    and sparsely populated rural areas.

    This video by Rei's Real Talk titled "The Vanishing Billion: Exposing
    China’s Population Myth" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbMWq-xvXU) summarizes the previous videos she made about China's population and
    states that China might only have 300 million people remaining.

    So, if the fertility rate of 1.7 between 1990-2020 is used - than
    China's real population is not 1.5 billion but 900 million. If the
    fertility rate is further adjusted to be 1.1 between 2000-2010 than the population is 700 million. If the 200-500 million death toll from Covid
    is taken into account - than the population is only 200-500 million -
    one can take the median number of that range which is 350 million. All
    of this means that the United States could have more people than China.

    What are the counter-arguments in favor of trusting the official
    population statistics? So far, I heard none. Some say that the official statistics must be correct but these same people present no logical
    reason as to why. Of course, the fertility rate could have been higher
    than reported. Not everyone abided by the one child policy and that
    policy only applied to crowded urban areas and not rural areas or to
    ethnic minorities. And a fertility rate of 2.1 is not necessary as the population can still rise if the number of births exceeds the number of
    deaths - but could China's real population still be a few hundred
    million less than 1.4 billion - like 1-1.2 billion? Most likely.

    So how likely is the idea that China has less than 400 million people?
    It is possible but unlikely. Know that China was not being transparent
    with its Covid death toll. In 2020, they claimed that only 3,000 died
    from Covid in all of China when many crematoriums reported that they
    alone - were each burning 2,000 bodies each day. China has been setting
    up more crematoriums while the average city and village reported far
    more deaths than births despite China claiming that the overall
    population rose past 1.4 billion.

    You could argue that it is IMPOSSIBLE to fake a country's population on
    such a scale for so long without anyone noticing - but remember - only
    China counts its own population, literally no one else is allowed to. I personally believe that China's population is between 1-1.2 billion.
    What do you think? Please present facts and logical reasoning if you
    want to strengthen your argument.


    --
    "An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
    only in others...”

    Tom Wolfe

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Jun 7 01:09:57 2025
    On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:35:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    <snip>
    </snip>

    iow, who the fuck knows but let's use AI to create some answers because AI
    is so dependable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From CtrlAltDel@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Jun 7 05:07:11 2025
    On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:35:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can
    be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one
    knows what China's real population is except for China's leaders who may
    well be overstating the population for countless reasons such as to look stronger than they are. Data that comes out of China has always been considered unreliable because democracy, transparency, and freedom of
    the press do not exist in China.

    First of all, this outlandish statement about democracy, transparency, and freedom of the press not existing in China reeks of the patriarchy, is
    heavily influenced by toxic masculinity, and is lacking any substantive equality while leaning heavily into outright misogyny and bigotry.

    Overall, Chinese society is based on patrilineal descent, yet there are
    pockets of matrilineal sub-groups within China, such as the Mosuo people,
    who defy the overall trend and hint at an ancient structure of society different than the one viewed in present times in China.

    Using language influenced by internalized sexism, such as this ridiculous Reddit post you quoted does, can only harm, insult, degrade, and
    physically endanger women in China and further promote complementarianism
    and highlights your narrow and hollow view of other cultures and peoples.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to CtrlAltDel on Sat Jun 7 11:03:41 2025
    On 07/06/2025 06:07, CtrlAltDel wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:35:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can
    be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China
    itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one
    knows what China's real population is except for China's leaders who may
    well be overstating the population for countless reasons such as to look
    stronger than they are. Data that comes out of China has always been
    considered unreliable because democracy, transparency, and freedom of
    the press do not exist in China.

    First of all, this outlandish statement about democracy, transparency, and freedom of the press not existing in China reeks of the patriarchy, is heavily influenced by toxic masculinity, and is lacking any substantive equality while leaning heavily into outright misogyny and bigotry.

    Overall, Chinese society is based on patrilineal descent, yet there are pockets of matrilineal sub-groups within China, such as the Mosuo people,
    who defy the overall trend and hint at an ancient structure of society different than the one viewed in present times in China.

    Using language influenced by internalized sexism, such as this ridiculous Reddit post you quoted does, can only harm, insult, degrade, and
    physically endanger women in China and further promote complementarianism
    and highlights your narrow and hollow view of other cultures and peoples.

    Golly,. I did hit a nerve.

    Well after having made it abundantly clear you know less about china
    than you do about my pet dog, I can only rely with a giant

    WOW!

    at your ignorance and sheer bigotry.


    --
    You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
    kind word alone.

    Al Capone

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIE@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 7 10:42:39 2025
    Le 06-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> a écrit :
    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can be:

    There are far better sources of information.

    For French readers, there is Le Gorafi:
    <https://www.legorafi.fr/>
    For English readers, there is The Onion:
    <https://theonion.com/>

    --
    Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Jun 7 13:27:52 2025
    On 2025-06-06 23:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one

    I am not interested, unless you use Linux to do the calculation and
    describe how Linux is used.

    This is offtopic here.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat Jun 7 13:24:56 2025
    On 07/06/2025 12:27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-06-06 23:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China
    itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one

    I am not interested, unless you use Linux to do the calculation and
    describe how Linux is used.

    This is offtopic here.


    I think it started with a discussion on Chinas use of satellites. It is relevant to how they are developing their IT to cope with a massive
    population crash
    .


    --
    Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
    doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
    don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From CtrlAltDel@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Jun 7 22:12:40 2025
    On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 11:03:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 07/06/2025 06:07, CtrlAltDel wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:35:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can
    be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China
    itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one
    knows what China's real population is except for China's leaders who
    may well be overstating the population for countless reasons such as
    to look stronger than they are. Data that comes out of China has
    always been considered unreliable because democracy, transparency, and
    freedom of the press do not exist in China.

    First of all, this outlandish statement about democracy, transparency,
    and freedom of the press not existing in China reeks of the patriarchy,
    is heavily influenced by toxic masculinity, and is lacking any
    substantive equality while leaning heavily into outright misogyny and
    bigotry.

    Overall, Chinese society is based on patrilineal descent, yet there are
    pockets of matrilineal sub-groups within China, such as the Mosuo
    people, who defy the overall trend and hint at an ancient structure of
    society different than the one viewed in present times in China.

    Using language influenced by internalized sexism, such as this
    ridiculous Reddit post you quoted does, can only harm, insult, degrade,
    and physically endanger women in China and further promote
    complementarianism and highlights your narrow and hollow view of other
    cultures and peoples.

    Golly,. I did hit a nerve.

    Well after having made it abundantly clear you know less about china
    than you do about my pet dog, I can only rely with a giant

    WOW!

    at your ignorance and sheer bigotry.


    You are spreading ignorance and misunderstanding of a culture, by quoting
    this Reddit post, that has no resemblance to yours, while using democracy, freedom of the press, and transparency as a bludgeoning tool.

    An imperious "Western" mindset beset by overbearing and intrusive ideas
    about social and political hegemony over those not like your group is what
    led the English to cruelly and inhumanely and uncivilly attack, enslave,
    and subjugate nation after nation after nation isn't it?

    Your type of illiterate blabbering is obscene and nasty and I would
    imagine you are a rather boorish and uncouth while simultaneously being
    not far removed from a common street urchin.

    --
    All of Usenet is in a psychological, emotional, and antisocial free fall
    into an abyss and fully immersed in a drowning pool of mental illness.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to CtrlAltDel on Sun Jun 8 10:17:37 2025
    On 07/06/2025 23:12, CtrlAltDel wrote:
    On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 11:03:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 07/06/2025 06:07, CtrlAltDel wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:35:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    This is a reddit post which summarised the situation as far as it can
    be:



    The only source for China’s population being 1.4-1.5 billion is China >>>> itself. No other source has ever verified this claim. Literally no one >>>> knows what China's real population is except for China's leaders who
    may well be overstating the population for countless reasons such as
    to look stronger than they are. Data that comes out of China has
    always been considered unreliable because democracy, transparency, and >>>> freedom of the press do not exist in China.

    First of all, this outlandish statement about democracy, transparency,
    and freedom of the press not existing in China reeks of the patriarchy,
    is heavily influenced by toxic masculinity, and is lacking any
    substantive equality while leaning heavily into outright misogyny and
    bigotry.

    Overall, Chinese society is based on patrilineal descent, yet there are
    pockets of matrilineal sub-groups within China, such as the Mosuo
    people, who defy the overall trend and hint at an ancient structure of
    society different than the one viewed in present times in China.

    Using language influenced by internalized sexism, such as this
    ridiculous Reddit post you quoted does, can only harm, insult, degrade,
    and physically endanger women in China and further promote
    complementarianism and highlights your narrow and hollow view of other
    cultures and peoples.

    Golly,. I did hit a nerve.

    Well after having made it abundantly clear you know less about china
    than you do about my pet dog, I can only rely with a giant

    WOW!

    at your ignorance and sheer bigotry.


    You are spreading ignorance and misunderstanding of a culture, by quoting this Reddit post, that has no resemblance to yours, while using democracy, freedom of the press, and transparency as a bludgeoning tool.

    Look. The reddit post was there purelk to assemble a set of links to
    other media sources that highlight the issue

    An imperious "Western" mindset beset by overbearing and intrusive ideas
    about social and political hegemony over those not like your group is what led the English to cruelly and inhumanely and uncivilly attack, enslave,
    and subjugate nation after nation after nation isn't it?

    just Wow!

    Your type of illiterate blabbering is obscene and nasty and I would
    imagine you are a rather boorish and uncouth while simultaneously being
    not far removed from a common street urchin.


    just wow!

    You really are revealing your true colors today.

    Not one word about the message, just vitriol against the messenger


    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)