Mystery ...

Created a systemd start/auto-restart daemon. It's
a python pgm.

The pgm STARTS just fine ... but the CL params I want
to pass to it - important stuff - do NOT register at
all in the pgm. Have made progress files ... all
the sys.argv[] stuff does NOT register. Only the
defaults wind up applying.

Have tried various kinds of quotes ... no good.

This is VERY annoying ! Seriously limits flexibility.

Any clues ???

COULD hard-wire directories and such ... but that's
really not so great.

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c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

Created a systemd start/auto-restart daemon. It's
a python pgm.

The pgm STARTS just fine ... but the CL params I want
to pass to it - important stuff - do NOT register at
all in the pgm. Have made progress files ... all
the sys.argv[] stuff does NOT register. Only the
defaults wind up applying.

Have tried various kinds of quotes ... no good.

This is VERY annoying ! Seriously limits flexibility.

Any clues ???

Nobody is going to be able to debug unit files and programs they can’t
see.

Have a look at https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html
in particular the description of ExecStart and the Command Lines section.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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On 2025-06-12 09:46, c186282 wrote:

Mystery ...

Created a systemd start/auto-restart daemon. It's
a python pgm.

The pgm STARTS just fine ... but the CL params I want
to pass to it - important stuff - do NOT register at
all in the pgm. Have made progress files ... all
the sys.argv[] stuff does NOT register. Only the
defaults wind up applying.

Have tried various kinds of quotes ... no good.

This is VERY annoying ! Seriously limits flexibility.

Any clues ???

COULD hard-wire directories and such ... but that's
really not so great.

I have looked at how "spamd" is started. It is a Perl script.


[Service]
Type=forking
PIDFile=/run/spamd.pid
ExecStartPre=/bin/bash -c "sa-update || true" EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/spamd
ExecStart=/usr/sbin/spamd $SPAMD_ARGS -r /run/spamd.pid ExecReload=/usr/bin/kill -HUP $MAINPID


No quotes.



You can look at more examples in your system.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 09:06:36 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

in particular the description of ExecStart and the Command Lines
section.

Just a note that the permitted syntax of systemd command lines is
deliberately restricted. It is not the fully general shell syntax.

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On 12/06/2025 09:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:

EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/spamd

You have a directory called /-etc ???

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

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On 2025-06-12 11:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 12/06/2025 09:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:

EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/spamd

You have a directory called /-etc ???

No. The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at "https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html". This is the answer:

In a **systemd** service file, the line:

```
EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/spamd
```

includes a **dash (`-`)** before the path. This dash is
**significant**—it tells `systemd` to **ignore** the file **if it does
not exist**.

### Meaning of the dash:

* `EnvironmentFile=/etc/sysconfig/spamd` → systemd **fails** to start
the service if the file is missing.
* `EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/spamd` → systemd **ignores the
missing file** and continues starting the service without error.

### Use case:

This is helpful when the environment file is **optional** or only
present in certain configurations or environments.

### Summary:

The dash (`-`) before the path means:

*"Use this environment file if it exists; otherwise, proceed without

it."*

Let me know if you want a breakdown of how `EnvironmentFile` works with variables.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On 6/12/25 5:14 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 09:06:36 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

in particular the description of ExecStart and the Command Lines
section.

Just a note that the permitted syntax of systemd command lines is deliberately restricted. It is not the fully general shell syntax.

The service is pretty simple :

. . .

[Unit]
Description=nCam_Recorder

[Service]
ExecStartPre=/bin/sleep 30
ExecStart=python3 "/root/scripts/nCamOperate.py3 /home/nas/shar/VidBak/camz/nCam/ 3"
Restart=on-failure
RestartSec=2s

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target

. . .

I give it 30 seconds for everything to settle down after
booting, then run the actual program. If it ever crashes
the service with self-restart in a couple of seconds.

The pgm starts, but despite moving quotes around none of
the CL args get imported.

I'll look for more examples today ... it's SOME little
nuance in how I'm doing the CL args. Systemd can be
very useful here, you don't need your own watchdog
scripts, but I know the syntax can be finnicky.

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On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at "https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try <https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

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On 2025-06-12 21:04, c186282 wrote:

On 6/12/25 5:14 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 09:06:36 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

...

[Unit]
Description=nCam_Recorder

[Service]
ExecStartPre=/bin/sleep 30
ExecStart=python3 "/root/scripts/nCamOperate.py3 /home/nas/shar/VidBak/ camz/nCam/ 3"

I don't think you need quotes.

Perhaps not even calling python directly, the script shebang should do it.

According to chatgpt, the correct syntax is:

ExecStart=/usr/bin/python3 /opt/myscripts/myscript.py arg1 arg2 --flag=value


--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 23:43:25 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

According to chatgpt ...

*Sigh* <https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html#Command%20lines>

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On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try <https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On 2025-06-12 23:57, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 23:43:25 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

According to chatgpt ...

*Sigh* <https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html#Command%20lines>

In short: complicated.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 00:58:25 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:57, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html#Command%20lines>

In short: complicated.

Note that the syntax is very limited, compared to regular shell
syntax.

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 00:59:00 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

And you end up with a possibly inaccurate and misleading answer.

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On 6/12/25 9:06 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 00:59:00 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

And you end up with a possibly inaccurate and misleading answer.

Wait until the "AI" convinces him to do something
damaging or fatal, just for electronic giggles :-)

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On 6/12/25 6:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:57, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 23:43:25 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

According to chatgpt ...

*Sigh*
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html#Command%20lines>

In short: complicated.

I did manage to get the CL params into the Python pgm,
the key was to be extra simple.

However the damned service won't yet start at boot.
I've done others that do ... I'll have to look them
up and see what's different.

Meanwhile, I start the service from an @reboot in
root crontab. That works. Still have to test to
see if it'll automatically RE-start on a crash.
The pgm itself can kind-of do that, but I'd like
systemd to get at it more promptly.

Oh, the pgm uses ffmpeg to grab a low-speed low-rez
rtsp feed from my one cam that's exposed to my front
door area ... can pick up talking there, indeed
even way out on the street or next-door to a
degree. It's saved as a 1-fps .mkv movie ... JUST
enough video to provide 'context' if I need to
call the cops over something. I've higher-rez
cams that show good images, but no front-yard audio.
The pgm polices the mini-vids, erasing ones older
than the specified number of days. It also keeps
track of the ffmpeg spawn ... and can re-start it
if not present ... but the delay is 5 minutes.
I'd like systemd to be much more prompt. Bail-out
in case of serious fail is to deliberately nuke
both the ffmpeg process and the main pgm - but
that relies on systemd restarting everything clean.

ANYway, a little work in progress. I'll post the final
fully-working important bits with notes soon enough.

No, I'm NOT gonna buy a 'Ring' cam so strangers in
China and gangstas can watch my front yard .........

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try ><https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

In the case of systemd docs: Because the AI gets the information
without the ideology and the attitude.

Greetings
Marc
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 07:29:25 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

In the case of systemd docs: Because the AI gets the information without
the ideology and the attitude.

Can you give examples from the reference docs that exhibit such things?

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 07:29:25 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

In the case of systemd docs: Because the AI gets the information without
the ideology and the attitude.

Can you give examples from the reference docs that exhibit such things?

That would bring me in a bad mood, so no. I remember a systemd man
page about starting a daemon (could have been systemd.service(5))
talking about "modern" daemons that use systemd notify already at a
time when almost NO daemons outside the systemd universe was using
that.

Greetings
Marc
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 08:48:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 07:29:25 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

In the case of systemd docs: Because the AI gets the information
without the ideology and the attitude.

Can you give examples from the reference docs that exhibit such
things?

That would bring me in a bad mood, so no. I remember a systemd man
page about starting a daemon (could have been systemd.service(5))
talking about "modern" daemons that use systemd notify already at a
time when almost NO daemons outside the systemd universe was using
that.

Had a look at <https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html>. The only occurrence of the word “modern” is in this paragraph:

Note that PID files should be avoided in modern projects. Use
Type=notify, Type=notify-reload or Type=simple where possible,
which does not require use of PID files to determine the main
process of a service and avoids needless forking.

Is there some issue with the wording of that?

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 08:48:37 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 07:29:25 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

In the case of systemd docs: Because the AI gets the information
without the ideology and the attitude.

Can you give examples from the reference docs that exhibit such
things?

That would bring me in a bad mood, so no. I remember a systemd man
page about starting a daemon (could have been systemd.service(5))
talking about "modern" daemons that use systemd notify already at a
time when almost NO daemons outside the systemd universe was using
that.

Had a look at ><https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html>.
The only occurrence of the word “modern” is in this paragraph:

Note that PID files should be avoided in modern projects. Use
Type=notify, Type=notify-reload or Type=simple where possible,
which does not require use of PID files to determine the main
process of a service and avoids needless forking.

Is there some issue with the wording of that?

Looks like the part was reworded or I remember some other document.
Might have been something on 0pointer.something.

Greetings
Marc
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.
Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of
getting the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

For some reason they believe that if a computer says it, it must be
true.

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.
Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of
getting the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

For some reason they believe that if a computer says it, it must be
true.

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from. The interested party can do
the checking himself.

You can feed the entire service file to the AI and ask it why it doesn't
work. I have done that with a different problem, and the answer was very accurate, it solved my problem.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:06 this Friday (GMT):

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 00:59:00 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing
what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of getting
the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

And you end up with a possibly inaccurate and misleading answer.

Right, hallucinations and stuff.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of
information.

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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 21:00:07 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 01:06 this Friday (GMT):

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 00:59:00 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-12 23:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 12:27:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The dash has a meaning in systemd parlance. I confess to not knowing >>>>> what, so I asked chatgpt after looking perfunctorily at
"https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/ systemd.service.html".

Try
<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/latest/ systemd.exec.html#EnvironmentFile=>.

Why do people insist on trusting AI, of all things, instead of
getting the info straight from the horse’s mouth?

Because it is a complicated reading and I want a fast answer.

And you end up with a possibly inaccurate and misleading answer.

Right, hallucinations and stuff.

Brave has a 'Answer with AI' option that I have since turned of. When it
was on it would sometimes come up with a decent answer, probably havested
from StackExchange or Reddit. When I was looking for information about a Leaflet add-on that handles gpx files it came up with a semi-correct
answer.


The add-on was a nice try but I wound up writing a C tool to parse the gpx (XML) file and emit GeoJSON which Leaflet can handle much more smoothly.

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On 6/13/25 7:38 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of information.

How much is 101% "trustworthy" these days ? :-)

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On 2025-06-14 01:38, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of information.

You do not know.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 14:54:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-14 01:38, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of
information.

You do not know.

We do now.

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On 2025-06-15 01:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 14:54:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-14 01:38, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of
information.

You do not know.

We do now.

Nope.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On 6/16/25 6:24 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-15 01:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 14:54:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-14 01:38, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 13:13:15 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-13 10:39, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

But you presumably don’t care whether it’s a correct answer.

Well, I do warn where the text comes from.

But then, that just makes you yourself an untrustworthy source of
information.

You do not know.

We do now.

Nope.

Seeing everybody as "idiots" seems to be a
feature of the Linux/Unix groups. Nothing
else to complain about ???

Everybody has their own level/spectrum of
experience here. NOBODY is "perfect".

Collect, use, what you CAN for YOUR particular
issue and level.

Hey, when I started, 'C' was the New Cool Lang
on PDP-11s. 110-baud modems were exotic. But
that doesn't mean I Know Everything by a HUGE
margin. SO many paths/problems/goals by SO many
over the years.

So, TRY to skip the hubris. Just sayin'

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