ATT abruptly cancelled support for my old Gen-2 DSL
connection - which I liked. NO warning, NO time to
prep or slide-over. Had to buy a damned iPad just
to set-up/'register' the new router. Do NOT like
Apple stuff, thinking is too weird.
Checked Amazon, there ARE several add-on physical
keyboards for A-16 pads. I'm gonna buy one next month.
Have kinda big rounded fingers - NOT good for on-screen
'keyboards' at all.
Anyway, note previous post, all of my IOT devices
seem to have magically come back on line, despite
the router base address being different (and
apparently un-resettable - my old was 192.168.0.3
for historic reasons, new is locked to .0.254
The new-improved router is, naturally, more STUPID
than its precedessor) and I see that getting WORSE
AND WORSE over time.
As for the internet service - I only get a shakey
max of two bars where I live ... mostly just ONE.
While ATT promises high speed that AIN'T happening
at my location. Amazon does sell 5G 'boosters',
might have to buy one.
The result - my new net is STILL kinda limited
to 15-25mbps, just like my old hardwire. On the
plus, the price is the same so it's a wash. This
speed is JUST enough to stream 1080p, which is
all I ever use on occasion. NOT sure yet what
the monthly max download is ... probably far
less than I used to get. However I never came
even close to maxxing-out the old service. Main
'big' stuff was downloading new Linux distros.
SOME said to buy T-Mobile hotspot ... but I've
got so much set up with ATT that it'd be a pain.
Suspect they use the same towers too, so there
would not be better speed. SOME want direct
billing to bank accts now too - found out how
horrible THAT could be back in the old
Compuserve/AOL dial-up days. Never Again. US
law PROTECTS credit-card bills, but NOT direct
acct extraction.
ONE local service bolts a dish to your house,
but its plans are kinda restrictive. Some
complain of bad service, but that's probably
a matter of exact geographic location.
StarLink ... MAYbe ... I'll have to look into it.
Suspect Musk will be assassinated soon by one or
another extremist group - so all that may go away.
SpaceX will be 'nationalized' but not sure about
StarLink.
REMAINING weird issue - stuff plugged into the
hardwire ports on the new router do NOT appear
in its wireless universe. Never seen that before.
No obvious way, or advice, about how to combine
the universes. I have some devices I WANT to be
hardwire for speed/security reasons.
ATT abruptly cancelled support for my old Gen-2 DSL
connection - which I liked.
As for the internet service - I only get a shakey
max of two bars where I live ... mostly just ONE.
While ATT promises high speed that AIN'T happening
at my location. Amazon does sell 5G 'boosters',
might have to buy one.
REMAINING weird issue - stuff plugged into the
hardwire ports on the new router do NOT appear
in its wireless universe. Never seen that before.
No obvious way, or advice, about how to combine
the universes. I have some devices I WANT to be
hardwire for speed/security reasons.
stuff plugged into the hardwire ports on the new router do NOT
appear in its wireless universe
I'm sure the papers have been telling of this for years. All copper
exchanges in most parts of the world are been moved to fibre. Those
customers that are too far or for some reason installing the fibre is
too expensive, are moved to some radio technology.
c186282 wrote:
stuff plugged into the hardwire ports on the new router do NOT
appear in its wireless universe
Usually the wifi intrerface and wired ethernet interface would be
bridged together, with the bridge interface routed to whatever the internet-facing interface is.
The GUI may, or may not, let you see that?
Alternatively the wifi interface may have a "client isolation" setting?
On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 14:06:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I'm sure the papers have been telling of this for years. All copper
exchanges in most parts of the world are been moved to fibre. Those
customers that are too far or for some reason installing the fibre is
too expensive, are moved to some radio technology.
I've been using a 3G/4G/5G wireless router for years. I'm not that far
from town but there aren't enough houses that fiber is going to happen. Conventional cable never did either. I only have a few OTA TV stations but most people have dishes for their TV fix.
I had been using copper. I have a Kindle back when they had 3G option. I didn't think too much about it but it was a revelation when I was sitting
on the deck reading and it connected to the network. The light bulb went
off and I was at the Verizon store the next day. My existing provider did have a wireless option but their antenna was on the wrong mountain and I didn't have any line of sight.
On 27/07/2025 08:11, c186282 wrote:
ATT abruptly cancelled support for my old Gen-2 DSLYou should move out of whatever 3rd world country you are living in.
connection - which I liked. NO warning, NO time to
prep or slide-over. Had to buy a damned iPad just
to set-up/'register' the new router. Do NOT like
Apple stuff, thinking is too weird.
Checked Amazon, there ARE several add-on physical
keyboards for A-16 pads. I'm gonna buy one next month.
Have kinda big rounded fingers - NOT good for on-screen
'keyboards' at all.
Anyway, note previous post, all of my IOT devices
seem to have magically come back on line, despite
the router base address being different (and
apparently un-resettable - my old was 192.168.0.3
for historic reasons, new is locked to .0.254
The new-improved router is, naturally, more STUPID
than its precedessor) and I see that getting WORSE
AND WORSE over time.
As for the internet service - I only get a shakey
max of two bars where I live ... mostly just ONE.
While ATT promises high speed that AIN'T happening
at my location. Amazon does sell 5G 'boosters',
might have to buy one.
The result - my new net is STILL kinda limited
to 15-25mbps, just like my old hardwire. On the
plus, the price is the same so it's a wash. This
speed is JUST enough to stream 1080p, which is
all I ever use on occasion. NOT sure yet what
the monthly max download is ... probably far
less than I used to get. However I never came
even close to maxxing-out the old service. Main
'big' stuff was downloading new Linux distros.
SOME said to buy T-Mobile hotspot ... but I've
got so much set up with ATT that it'd be a pain.
Suspect they use the same towers too, so there
would not be better speed. SOME want direct
billing to bank accts now too - found out how
horrible THAT could be back in the old
Compuserve/AOL dial-up days. Never Again. US
law PROTECTS credit-card bills, but NOT direct
acct extraction.
ONE local service bolts a dish to your house,
but its plans are kinda restrictive. Some
complain of bad service, but that's probably
a matter of exact geographic location.
StarLink ... MAYbe ... I'll have to look into it.
Suspect Musk will be assassinated soon by one or
another extremist group - so all that may go away.
SpaceX will be 'nationalized' but not sure about
StarLink.
REMAINING weird issue - stuff plugged into the
hardwire ports on the new router do NOT appear
in its wireless universe. Never seen that before.
No obvious way, or advice, about how to combine
the universes. I have some devices I WANT to be
hardwire for speed/security reasons.
On 2025-07-27 09:11, c186282 wrote:
ATT abruptly cancelled support for my old Gen-2 DSL
connection - which I liked.
Copper?
As for the internet service - I only get a shakey
max of two bars where I live ... mostly just ONE.
While ATT promises high speed that AIN'T happening
at my location. Amazon does sell 5G 'boosters',
might have to buy one.
New router is wireless? Using 4G or 5G technology?
I'm sure the papers have been telling of this for years. All copper
exchanges in most parts of the world are been moved to fibre. Those
customers that are too far or for some reason installing the fibre is
too expensive, are moved to some radio technology.
REMAINING weird issue - stuff plugged into the
hardwire ports on the new router do NOT appear
in its wireless universe. Never seen that before.
No obvious way, or advice, about how to combine
the universes. I have some devices I WANT to be
hardwire for speed/security reasons.
Make sure the gateway is set to the router address. Even for LAN
addresses. It is a hack, so use only if really needed (it can overload
the router).
Or, create your own Access Point.
c186282 wrote:
stuff plugged into the hardwire ports on the new router do NOT
appear in its wireless universe
Usually the wifi intrerface and wired ethernet interface would be
bridged together, with the bridge interface routed to whatever the internet-facing interface is.
The GUI may, or may not, let you see that?
Alternatively the wifi interface may have a "client isolation" setting?
Only StarLink always has the "tower" directly OVER you. Again though,
as weird as Musk has become, the whole service could disappear in an
instant.
The jungle republic of the USA ....
They probably get better 5G in Ethiopia than a get at my location -
and it's NOT 90 miles out in the cow-farms.
Good old copper !
Hey, it works, is still mostly reliable. Easy to run, easy to wire
up, easy to splice.
Anyway, previous routers, 20 years back, this always
"just worked" and you never had to think about it.
If it's plugged into my 8-port hub I want to to be
accessible wired AND to the wifi units.
On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 17:53:50 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The jungle republic of the USA ....I got lucky. Verizon built new towers to service areas with a lot of new construction and I have good line of sight to them.
They probably get better 5G in Ethiopia than a get at my location -
and it's NOT 90 miles out in the cow-farms.
c186282 wrote:
Anyway, previous routers, 20 years back, this always
"just worked" and you never had to think about it.
If it's plugged into my 8-port hub I want to to be
accessible wired AND to the wifi units.
As a last resort, you could disable (or disregard) the router's own
wifi, and plug your own access point into one of the 8 ports.
Andy Burns wrote:The above setup would give you that ...
you could disable (or disregard) the router's own
wifi, and plug your own access point into one of the 8 ports.
Ummmmmmm ... need wifi AND the wired-in.
Both need to be in the same "universe"
On 7/27/25 7:05 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
You should move out of whatever 3rd world country you are living in.
The jungle republic of the USA ....
They probably get better 5G in Ethiopia than
a get at my location - and it's NOT 90 miles
out in the cow-farms.
On 7/27/25 7:05 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/07/2025 08:11, c186282 wrote:
You should move out of whatever 3rd world country you are living in.
The jungle republic of the USA ....
They probably get better 5G in Ethiopia than
a get at my location - and it's NOT 90 miles
out in the cow-farms.
My GUESS ... fiber will soon be used only to direct
connect local 'nodes' - with 5/6G transmitters at
each one. Home/biz will all become wireless. It's
cheapest for the corps, even if service sucks.
On 7/27/25 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 14:06:41 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I'm sure the papers have been telling of this for years. All copper
exchanges in most parts of the world are been moved to fibre. Those
customers that are too far or for some reason installing the fibre is
too expensive, are moved to some radio technology.
I've been using a 3G/4G/5G wireless router for years. I'm not that far
from town but there aren't enough houses that fiber is going to happen.
Conventional cable never did either. I only have a few OTA TV stations
but
most people have dishes for their TV fix.
I had been using copper. I have a Kindle back when they had 3G option. I
didn't think too much about it but it was a revelation when I was sitting
on the deck reading and it connected to the network. The light bulb went
off and I was at the Verizon store the next day. My existing provider did
have a wireless option but their antenna was on the wrong mountain and I
didn't have any line of sight.
Only StarLink always has the "tower" directly OVER
you. Again though, as weird as Musk has become, the
whole service could disappear in an instant.
Ok, there's geo-sync sat internet but the signal
delay would be UGLY these days with all the
highly-decorated ad-infested web pages. Had it
in the old old days when things were simpler,
but the up/down lag was still annoying.
c186282 wrote:
Anyway, previous routers, 20 years back, this always
"just worked" and you never had to think about it.
If it's plugged into my 8-port hub I want to to be
accessible wired AND to the wifi units.
As a last resort, you could disable (or disregard) the router's own
wifi, and plug your own access point into one of the 8 ports.
On 7/28/25 1:34 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
c186282 wrote:
Anyway, previous routers, 20 years back, this always
"just worked" and you never had to think about it.
If it's plugged into my 8-port hub I want to to be
accessible wired AND to the wifi units.
As a last resort, you could disable (or disregard) the router's own
wifi, and plug your own access point into one of the 8 ports.
Ummmmmmm ... need wifi AND the wired-in.
Both need to be in the same "universe"
In UK fibre to the house is replacing all copper.,I can put up with my 80/20 Mbps copper until fibre reaches here (during
Copper is simply shit past a few years old.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In UK fibre to the house is replacing all copper.,I can put up with my 80/20 Mbps copper until fibre reaches here (during
Copper is simply shit past a few years old.
2026 according to BT) when I can have up to 1600/115 Mbps.
I'll probably plump for the 300/50 Mbps, to get a decent an upload
increase ...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 03:11:54 -0400
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Anyway, note previous post, all of my IOT devices seem to have
magically come back on line, despite the router base address being
different (and apparently un-resettable - my old was 192.168.0.3
for historic reasons, new is locked to .0.254 The new-improved router
is, naturally, more STUPID than its precedessor) and I see that
getting WORSE AND WORSE over time.
REMAINING weird issue - stuff plugged into the hardwire ports on the
new router do NOT appear in its wireless universe. Never seen that
before. No obvious way, or advice, about how to combine the
universes. I have some devices I WANT to be hardwire for
speed/security reasons.
I learned some years ago that it's just never worth it trying to set up
a sane network configuration on the provider's modem/router - I use it strictly as a pipe to the Internet and hang my own router off of that
for the local network. Doesn't mean *never* having to touch the telco's router config - some providers do shameless man-in-the-middle stuff now
in the name of "security" unless you turn that off - but it does mean I
can configure my home network any damn way I want.
Gonna check into 5G "boosters" in a few days (CC billing interval).
If I can get 2-3 bars then GREAT. My HOPE is for 50mbps kinda
consistently. Don't need more. Consistent 25 was really Good Enough.
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 02:34:05 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Gonna check into 5G "boosters" in a few days (CC billing interval).
If I can get 2-3 bars then GREAT. My HOPE is for 50mbps kinda
consistently. Don't need more. Consistent 25 was really Good Enough.
Accodring to speedtest.com
Download 13.92 Mbps
Upload 0.54 Mbps
Works for me. I guess I'm in Denver today.
Future - every device becomes MORE STUPID.
"Our Way or NO way". Not great.
The jungle republic of the USA ....
They probably get better 5G in Ethiopia than
a get at my location - and it's NOT 90 miles
out in the cow-farms.
c186282 <c186...@nnada.net> [c]:
With 2FA *everywhere* the ONE acct I CANNOT lose is my
cell. That'd be a TOTAL disaster. This is the fuckin' world
we've made.
Minor correction: this is the world YOU 've made. Not keeping a backup
of your 2FA codes on another device is YOUR choice and YOUR problem.
Oh dear. You think the Russians are digging up my roadside verges? Have
to any IDEA how much data goes through a fibre compared with a radio or microwave link?
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:16:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
England has a population density of 1,134.4/sq mi. This state has a
density of 7.7/sq mi. England might not be up to Hong Kong standards yet
but import more diverse people that breed like rabbits and you will get there.
Once the child-bearers are educated we usually give up the
the need to reproduce endlessly. In the USA big families may persist
for a Generation or so. Once you hve the assurance that a child has a
good chance to survive then you don't feel the need to have more backup children.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:51:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Once the child-bearers are educated we usually give up the
the need to reproduce endlessly. In the USA big families may persist
for a Generation or so. Once you hve the assurance that a child has a
good chance to survive then you don't feel the need to have more backup
children.
I went to a bluegrass festival this weekend and one group is a father and five kids. The oldest is a high school senior. I can't tell kids ages very well but the youngest might be around 7. She's no Bill Monroe yet but does
an acceptable job with a mandolin.
It was good to see a big family and to young people playing. A couple of years ago they redid the stairs to the stage since some of the bands were having a problem getting up the old set. The audience isn't exactly Gen Z either.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:16:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
England has a population density of 1,134.4/sq mi. This state has a
density of 7.7/sq mi. England might not be up to Hong Kong standards yet
but import more diverse people that breed like rabbits and you will get there.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:16:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
England has a population density of 1,134.4/sq mi. This state has a
density of 7.7/sq mi. England might not be up to Hong Kong standards yet
but import more diverse people that breed like rabbits and you will get there.
On 29/07/2025 19:39, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well I call it a modem. People leap on me and say it' just a ONT -'
All I have is a fibre NTE box on the wall that tales power and has an
Ethernet socket. It does PPPoE presentation to my ISP.
Likely just a media converter.
Optical network termination'
But yes, it encrypts Ethernet packets over an optical medium,
And the next 50km or so they are just passive optical signals.
"GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network), designated as ITU-T standard
G.984.2 is a medium for delivering data services (including digital TV, Internet and phone services) over fibre optic cables. It's an
alternative to DSL and cable technologies which are the most commonly
used delivery methods for Internet and triple play (TV, VoIP &
Internet). Note that we're using the British spelling of fibre here -
in American English, it's fiber. "
Current GPON standards in use provide a data rate of 2.488Gb/s
downstream and 1.244Gb/s upstream. That's a fixed speed. Unlike cable
systems GPON's speed doesn't get lower with distance, however there are maximum distances that the line can run, beyond which the signal is no
longer viable. You either have 100% signal at full speed, or none. That maximum is up to 20Km depending on the laser power in use however that
does depend on the number of splits - more on that later. Next
generation GPON, known as 10G GPON or XG-PON will provide up to 10Gb/s
in both directions. It will use the same fibre cables so only the
equipment at each end will need to be replace
Then they get to a 'regional concentrator' where there is active
electronics.
Note that that 10Gbps is shared between other users on the fibre. You
don't get it all. The premises kit restricts transmission rates to what
you have paid for.
Given that there may be up to 72 fibres in a typical bundle that's
720Gbps going alone a given street or road. to a single concentrator. A regional centre has much more bandwidth than that - half a dozen concentrators for a rural region.
Traffic over the fibre is encrypted to your ONT
Fiber is so new in Germany that there
is no universal standard yet, so ISPs try to mask that complexity awayThe universal standard is GPON, but of course you dont need to stick to it.
by also supplying the router. Our regulator is pushing back hard to
allow the more savvy users to choose their own router.
My ISP no longer supplies the rate I am on - 40/10 Mbps. I could now
upgrade to 100/20 for nearly the same money.
I think it amounts to a change in the ONT . Which can be done remotely
The first and only ISP-owned Router (IAD - Integrated Access Device)Not good.
that I couldn't get rid of was the infamous ZyXEL "UFO" that killed
idle TCP sessions after ten minutes and didn't properly NAT UDP
streams, so neither ssh nor vpn links were stable. And the hotline was
like "can you access the web? Yes? Then we're doing what we told you
we'd do, ticket closed". Thankfully I never paid a cent for that link,
it wouldn't have been worth one.
Greetings
Marc
Compared with copper fibre Just Works. And I get very good bandwidth and availability. Occasionally it vanishes for a couple of seconds.. But
that could be some rout change in the internet at large
Women are NOT keen to be "breeder units", clearly. All
that "joy of motherhood" stuff was crap.
On 7/29/25 8:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:16:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
England has a population density of 1,134.4/sq mi. This state has a
density of 7.7/sq mi. England might not be up to Hong Kong standards yet >> but import more diverse people that breed like rabbits and you will get
there.
The USA still has lots of "space" ... which is
generally a good thing (unless you need good 5G
service anyway).
However URBAN areas ... remember the old "Blade Runner"
movie, LA ultra-megaopolis with like 50 million packed
in, air you can barely breath, everything kind of
crumbling under the weight ?
On 2025-07-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:16:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
England has a population density of 1,134.4/sq mi. This state has
a density of 7.7/sq mi. England might not be up to Hong Kong
standards yet but import more diverse people that breed like
rabbits and you will get there.
We're working on it up here in Canada. Our previous government more
than doubled our immigration rate, to half a million people per
year. (To put it in perspective, think of the U.S. getting 5 million immigrants per year.) I've heard stories of newcomers being dumped
onto the streets of Toronto with nowhere to go. They've already
accomplished their purpose of getting the numbers up, so screw 'em.
Immigration advocates and flying saucer nuts have a lot in common.
UFOlogists believe we will be saved by aliens from another planet,
while proponents of immigration believe we will be saved by aliens
from another country.
Meanwhile, cities and roads are becoming congested, demand for
housing has driven prices out of reach of many young people, and
medical services can't keep up. What the hell, there's lots more
where they came from.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 21:03:07 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <106b9dr$2r3s7$2@dont-email.me>:
On 29/07/2025 19:39, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well I call it a modem. People leap on me and say it' just a ONT -'
All I have is a fibre NTE box on the wall that tales power and has an
Ethernet socket. It does PPPoE presentation to my ISP.
Likely just a media converter.
Optical network termination'
But yes, it encrypts Ethernet packets over an optical medium,
And the next 50km or so they are just passive optical signals.
"GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network), designated as ITU-T standard
G.984.2 is a medium for delivering data services (including digital TV,
Internet and phone services) over fibre optic cables. It's an
alternative to DSL and cable technologies which are the most commonly
used delivery methods for Internet and triple play (TV, VoIP &
Internet). Note that we're using the British spelling of fibre here -
in American English, it's fiber. "
Current GPON standards in use provide a data rate of 2.488Gb/s
downstream and 1.244Gb/s upstream. That's a fixed speed. Unlike cable
systems GPON's speed doesn't get lower with distance, however there are
maximum distances that the line can run, beyond which the signal is no
longer viable. You either have 100% signal at full speed, or none. That
maximum is up to 20Km depending on the laser power in use however that
does depend on the number of splits - more on that later. Next
generation GPON, known as 10G GPON or XG-PON will provide up to 10Gb/s
in both directions. It will use the same fibre cables so only the
equipment at each end will need to be replace
Then they get to a 'regional concentrator' where there is active
electronics.
Note that that 10Gbps is shared between other users on the fibre. You
don't get it all. The premises kit restricts transmission rates to what
you have paid for.
Given that there may be up to 72 fibres in a typical bundle that's
720Gbps going alone a given street or road. to a single concentrator. A
regional centre has much more bandwidth than that - half a dozen
concentrators for a rural region.
Traffic over the fibre is encrypted to your ONT
Fiber is so new in Germany that there
is no universal standard yet, so ISPs try to mask that complexity awayThe universal standard is GPON, but of course you dont need to stick to it. >>
by also supplying the router. Our regulator is pushing back hard to
allow the more savvy users to choose their own router.
My ISP no longer supplies the rate I am on - 40/10 Mbps. I could now
upgrade to 100/20 for nearly the same money.
I think it amounts to a change in the ONT . Which can be done remotely
The first and only ISP-owned Router (IAD - Integrated Access Device)Not good.
that I couldn't get rid of was the infamous ZyXEL "UFO" that killed
idle TCP sessions after ten minutes and didn't properly NAT UDP
streams, so neither ssh nor vpn links were stable. And the hotline was
like "can you access the web? Yes? Then we're doing what we told you
we'd do, ticket closed". Thankfully I never paid a cent for that link,
it wouldn't have been worth one.
Greetings
Marc
Compared with copper fibre Just Works. And I get very good bandwidth and
availability. Occasionally it vanishes for a couple of seconds.. But
that could be some rout change in the internet at large
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
https://ibb.co/RGCk03MN
On 7/30/25 12:44 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:51:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Once the child-bearers are educated we usually give up the
the need to reproduce endlessly. In the USA big families may persist >>> for a Generation or so. Once you hve the assurance that a child has a
good chance to survive then you don't feel the need to have more backup >>> children.
I went to a bluegrass festival this weekend and one group is a father and
five kids. The oldest is a high school senior. I can't tell kids ages
very
well but the youngest might be around 7. She's no Bill Monroe yet but
does
an acceptable job with a mandolin.
It was good to see a big family and to young people playing. A couple of
years ago they redid the stairs to the stage since some of the bands were
having a problem getting up the old set. The audience isn't exactly Gen Z
either.
Sellers was right though - big fams were a last-century
kind of thing. It was a combo of no contraceptives, no
female 'empowerment', high child mortality and fewer
govt protective programs. You kind of HAD to have lots
of kids, they were your little 'army', the people
who would feed and protect you as you got older.
Now ... not nearly so much.
Face it, 1st-world societies are contracting FAST due to
the new realities. 'AI' won't fix it, 'immigrants' won't
keep your society/culture alive. At some point it all
falls apart. Maybe just one more gen and "Japan" will
just be a historical name for some islands, nothing to
do with thousands of years of cultural uniqueness.
USA/EU not far behind that curve. Even China has now
offered a $500 check for having a kid (not enough).
"Handmaid" measures ? That won't go over well for sure.
Women are NOT keen to be "breeder units", clearly. All
that "joy of motherhood" stuff was crap.
Hmmmm ... what was that old song about getting yer
children from the end of a long glass tube .... ?
But, again, we've diverged from Linux stuff :-)
But there is a lot of redundancy in undersea fibre. Internet was after
all designed to survive nuclear war.
On 29/07/2025 19:39, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
All I have is a fibre NTE box on the wall that tales power and has an
Ethernet socket. It does PPPoE presentation to my ISP.
Likely just a media converter.
Well I call it a modem.
But yes, it encrypts Ethernet packets over an optical medium,
And the next 50km or so they are just passive optical signals.
Fiber is so new in Germany that there
is no universal standard yet, so ISPs try to mask that complexity awayThe universal standard is GPON, but of course you dont need to stick to it.
by also supplying the router. Our regulator is pushing back hard to
allow the more savvy users to choose their own router.
On 30/07/2025 07:03, c186282 wrote:
Women are NOT keen to be "breeder units", clearly. All
that "joy of motherhood" stuff was crap.
You would be very surprised - or perhaps not - at just how many people
*want* to be slaves in exchange for the security of knowing exactly what
they have to do, are supposed to think, and have opinions on.
Male and female both.
And there must be something in the motherhood thing, or no one would willingly do it.
Oh, DID order a well-endorsed 5G 'booster'. May be SOME niche in my
house that gets at least slightly better 5G. This device is supposed
to boost/repeat. Might get TWO bars !
What is different is that rural England is quite evenly populated with
a village every few miles. Urban/suburban living is similar to any other Western country.
We're working on it up here in Canada. Our previous government more
than doubled our immigration rate, to half a million people per year.
(To put it in perspective, think of the U.S. getting 5 million
immigrants per year.) I've heard stories of newcomers being dumped onto
the streets of Toronto with nowhere to go. They've already accomplished their purpose of getting the numbers up, so screw 'em.
And wouldn't it improve the state immeasurably!
when everyone lives asshole to belly button.
Like Hong Kong?
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference for >many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is downloading isos
and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might make a difference.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
But there is a lot of redundancy in undersea fibre. Internet was after
all designed to survive nuclear war.
Commercial Operators have removed that design criteria since back
then. It's full of SPOFs.
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 11:25:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What is different is that rural England is quite evenly populated with
a village every few miles. Urban/suburban living is similar to any other
Western country.
The northeast US tends to be like that. I miss that a little since it also implies a network of roads so you could got for a ride and have some
variety. Here, once you get out of the city there is a north-south road
and an east-west interstate. If you consider a city as having over 30,000 people, the closest ones are over 100 miles away.
There are CDPs, census designated places, that are unincorporated wide
spots in the road that may have a gas station and a couple of small businesses. The bigger ones might even have a school. I don't even live in one of those. The county is 6,780 km2 (2,618 sq mi) and quite a few people just live in 'the county', That's handy around election time when the partisans are out soliciting votes. 'I'm county' gets rid of them fast
since there aren't many offices I can vote for.
I think the Australians are the only people who can appreciate the US 'flyover' country.
which is why I think the UK would fit into the eastern part of the state. It's semi-arid short grass prairie with no trees except along the rivers.
Well Scotland is amazingly hostile to humans Cold, wet and largely too
steep for anything but sheep
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference
for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is downloading >>isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might make a >>difference.
A 4k video (HEVC) stays well below 40 Mbit/s.
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is downloading isos
and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might make a difference.
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 11:22:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/07/2025 07:03, c186282 wrote:
Women are NOT keen to be "breeder units", clearly. All
that "joy of motherhood" stuff was crap.
You would be very surprised - or perhaps not - at just how many people
*want* to be slaves in exchange for the security of knowing exactly what
they have to do, are supposed to think, and have opinions on.
Male and female both.
And there must be something in the motherhood thing, or no one would
willingly do it.
Sklavenmoral...
At one company I worked for we were approached by the workers about supporting a softball team. No problem, we would spring for uniforms, equipment, and whatever fees were associated with it. It seemed like a
good way to improve morale. The catch was they also wanted us to run the team. We were managers and that's what we were supposed to do.
Because of the nature of the work almost all the employees were women. It
was very difficult to promote a capable worker to a lead position. They didn't want the responsibility even for a larger paycheck.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/07/2025 19:42, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well in the UK there is a distinction between the supplier of the fibre
Yes. The UK is somewhat ahead of the European countries I have visited. >>>> Germany is 've are ze state telecoms provider, , So We Vill gif you vot >>>> vurks for us, and fuck you.
In Germany on DSL you have a broad choice of ISPs, some of them even
knowing their trade and having decent support and supplying decent
hardware (or giving freedom of choice).
Not being able to choose the ISP is one of the biggest deterrent for
moving to fiber.
- mainly the heavily regulated rump of the old Post Office - and who it
plugs into at the other end, so to speak.
That is not the case in many fiber installations here.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:20:08 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference >>>>for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is
downloading isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might >>>>make a difference.
A 4k video (HEVC) stays well below 40 Mbit/s.
My connection runs around 20 Mbit/s down.
If that's what you call a big pipe...
What people, women or not, WANT TO DEAL WITH -vs- what
they're theoretically capable of - often BIG difference !
On 7/30/25 3:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference
for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is downloading
isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might make a
difference.
The OTHER END has to SUPPLY the data at your speed if you want to see
any advantage. This is decidedly NOT always the case. You could have
a terabit pipe,
but if Deb or wherever only supplies 50mbs then that's what you're
stuck with.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:02:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well Scotland is amazingly hostile to humans Cold, wet and largely too
steep for anything but sheep
A friend served on a nuclear u-boat when the US Navy had a base at Holy
Loch. He claimed Scotland was the only thing in the world that could make
a couple of months underwater look good. Cold, wet, and the women looked
like sheep.
China now is offering a $500 bonus for childbearing.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 06:01:29 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:20:08 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference >>>>>for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is >>>>>downloading isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might >>>>>make a difference.
A 4k video (HEVC) stays well below 40 Mbit/s.
My connection runs around 20 Mbit/s down.
If that's what you call a big pipe...
"We've got a big pipe at work". To clarify, Patch Tuesday sucks at work possibly as much as it does with my home 20 Mbit/s wireless. If the source throttles the theoretical speed doesn't make a difference. I don't do high fps gaming, watch 4K videos, and so forth where I might see a radical difference.
In a different context I am happy with my Suzuki V-Strom. The Hayabusa is much faster but I don't really need to do 300 kph. 170 is perfectly
good.
I'm not saying high speed fiber is never useful but for many people their
day to day use may not make use of its potential. This phenomenon applies
to many things.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 06:01:29 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:20:08 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference >>>>> for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is
downloading isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might >>>>> make a difference.
A 4k video (HEVC) stays well below 40 Mbit/s.
My connection runs around 20 Mbit/s down.
If that's what you call a big pipe...
"We've got a big pipe at work". To clarify, Patch Tuesday sucks at work possibly as much as it does with my home 20 Mbit/s wireless. If the source throttles the theoretical speed doesn't make a difference. I don't do high fps gaming, watch 4K videos, and so forth where I might see a radical difference.
In a different context I am happy with my Suzuki V-Strom. The Hayabusa is much faster but I don't really need to do 300 kph. 170 is perfectly good.
I'm not saying high speed fiber is never useful but for many people their
day to day use may not make use of its potential. This phenomenon applies
to many things.
On 2025-07-31, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 06:01:29 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:20:08 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 30 Jul 2025 08:12:31 GMT, vallor wrote:
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
We've got a big pipe at work but I don't see all that much difference >>>>>> for many things. Patch Tuesday is almost as painful, and is
downloading isos and so forth. I don't stream 4k videos where it might >>>>>> make a difference.
A 4k video (HEVC) stays well below 40 Mbit/s.
My connection runs around 20 Mbit/s down.
If that's what you call a big pipe...
"We've got a big pipe at work". To clarify, Patch Tuesday sucks at work
possibly as much as it does with my home 20 Mbit/s wireless. If the source >> throttles the theoretical speed doesn't make a difference. I don't do high >> fps gaming, watch 4K videos, and so forth where I might see a radical
difference.
In a different context I am happy with my Suzuki V-Strom. The Hayabusa is
much faster but I don't really need to do 300 kph. 170 is perfectly
good.
Some FIAT cars do 220 or even 250, but might take some time to reach the
top speed. Something like an EuroSprinter is probably faster at that.
I'm not saying high speed fiber is never useful but for many people their
day to day use may not make use of its potential. This phenomenon applies
to many things.
Won't Patch Tuesday's bottlenecks be the handling on the server side
(which was rumored to throttle not-the-latest-product versions) and the processing on the client side (which has been described as not so
efficient (and more complex on systems with WOW64), with some suggested workarounds involving shutting down the update service and installing
patches directly?
Finally got fiber in our neighborhood. 10Gbps symmetric.
I'm not saying high speed fiber is never useful but for many people their
day to day use may not make use of its potential. This phenomenon applies
to many things.
On 7/30/25 11:43 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/07/2025 19:42, Marc Haber wrote:
USA is more 'cowboy' in this respect. It's all private,
competing, industry. In any specific locale your options
may be a bit limited. However The State isn't too much
involved at any level.
AT&T abruptly cancelled my wired DSL-gen2 service - no
notice, no transition time. Pissed me off !
Now have their 5G 'air' router. Problem ... where I am
exactly it's amazing to see even three bars anywhere
on the property. The router typically sees only ONE bar.
Speed ... roughly the same as the old - and a bit cheaper -
but STILL. All the local cell providers piggyback on the
same towers so there's not gonna be any advantage in
changing corps. ATT has more liberal billing plans too ...
do NOT want to give anybody direct access to bank
routing numbers ... NO legal protections as seen
with CCs. Did direct back in the AOL/Compuserve
days - NEVER again !
Some FIAT cars do 220 or even 250, but might take some time to reach the
top speed. Something like an EuroSprinter is probably faster at that.
Won't Patch Tuesday's bottlenecks be the handling on the server side
(which was rumored to throttle not-the-latest-product versions) and the processing on the client side (which has been described as not so
efficient (and more complex on systems with WOW64), with some suggested workarounds involving shutting down the update service and installing
patches directly?
Its not necessarily the top speed. In te UK there are many rroads where passing is difficult and plenty of people womble along at 40mph Having
the best part of 300bhp on tap and brakes to match is very useful
I don't believe I have ever exceeded 130mph
What I like is its more than a 5Mbps down 5i2kbps up that was subject to
line issues on a monthly basis. And data is not capped in any way.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 20:07:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully
directional.
It doesn't come with an antenna but my wireless router does have ports for external antennas. I tried a couple of vertical dipoles and it didn't add much. I never got around to installing a directional outside.
On 2025-07-31 21:55, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 20:07:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully >>> directional.
It doesn't come with an antenna but my wireless router does have ports for >> external antennas. I tried a couple of vertical dipoles and it didn't add
much. I never got around to installing a directional outside.
I hope they were antenas for the cellular network, not for the WiFi
side? Just asking :-)
Time ago, there were designs for building your own directional antena
for WiFi. Maybe there are now for cellular routers. Surely many people
are in that situation. Even by building a parabolic with the router inside.
I hope they were antenas for the cellular network, not for the WiFi
side? Just asking
Time ago, there were designs for building your own directional antena
for WiFi. Maybe there are now for cellular routers. Surely many people
are in that situation. Even by building a parabolic with the router
inside.
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully directional.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What I like is its more than a 5Mbps down 5i2kbps up that was subject to
line issues on a monthly basis. And data is not capped in any way.
I have a 100 GB/month cap and rarely hit it. In fact at the moment it
reports 21.928 GB used as of 07/30/2025, and it rolls over on 8/12. Some months I use more but the current crop of Prime or Netflix videos aren't
all that appealing and I haven't been watching youtube tutorials.
Many people wouldn't be happy but it works for me. It was like pulling
teeth to get Verizon to fess up to a data only plan with a decent cap.
They push phone plans with data dangled on the side. My phone is not
Verizon and has a 5 GB cap that I've never gotten close to.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 22:25:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I hope they were antenas for the cellular network, not for the WiFi
side? Just asking
No, the 4G side. What I got are cheap omnis:
https://www.amazon.com/Bingfu-Magnetic-Compatible-Industrial-Amplifier/dp/ B08DG87HBV
Time ago, there were designs for building your own directional antena
for WiFi. Maybe there are now for cellular routers. Surely many people
are in that situation. Even by building a parabolic with the router
inside.
Pringles cans were used a lot but this site claims they're not the right diameter.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-make-a-wifi-antenna-out-of-a- pringles-can-nb/
They would work better at 5 GHz than 2.4. Working at higher frequencies
makes life easier. I build a Quagi for the 2M (144 MHz) amateur band and
you didn't hide it in a chip can. However I did have a reliable connection
to a repeater about 80 miles away using a 5W handheld.
http://www.overbeck.com/quagi.htm
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What I like is its more than a 5Mbps down 5i2kbps up that was subject to >>> line issues on a monthly basis. And data is not capped in any way.
I have a 100 GB/month cap and rarely hit it. In fact at the moment it
reports 21.928 GB used as of 07/30/2025, and it rolls over on 8/12. Some
months I use more but the current crop of Prime or Netflix videos aren't
all that appealing and I haven't been watching youtube tutorials.
Many people wouldn't be happy but it works for me. It was like pulling
teeth to get Verizon to fess up to a data only plan with a decent cap.
They push phone plans with data dangled on the side. My phone is not
Verizon and has a 5 GB cap that I've never gotten close to.
Note that SOME people - even with naught but just
little phones - just HAVE to stream 4K/8K video all
the time.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 20:07:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully
directional.
It doesn't come with an antenna but my wireless router does have ports for external antennas. I tried a couple of vertical dipoles and it didn't add much. I never got around to installing a directional outside.
Thanks for the suggestions to link the ethernet
ports on my new router into the wifi universe.
Unfortunately, modern trend, this new device
is just TOO STUPID - there are no settings that
can adjust these settings.
On 2025-07-31 21:55, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 20:07:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully >>> directional.
It doesn't come with an antenna but my wireless router does have ports
for
external antennas. I tried a couple of vertical dipoles and it didn't add
much. I never got around to installing a directional outside.
I hope they were antenas for the cellular network, not for the WiFi
side? Just asking :-)
Time ago, there were designs for building your own directional antena
for WiFi.
Maybe there are now for cellular routers. Surely many people
are in that situation. Even by building a parabolic with the router inside.
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric drill, that
made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a drill with
hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it became a piece of
cake
On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 19:58:06 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang a
picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a hand >> powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric drill, that
made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a drill with
hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it became a piece of
cake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdkkuMkcw6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpvkwBBu6U
You might want to turn the captions on for the second one.
Hammer drills
are fine for one or two holes every now and then but if you're doing
serious work get a Hilti. (Like Kleenex there are other brands but they
get called Hiltis anyway)
On 31/07/2025 20:55, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 20:07:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does somebody make routers with external aerials for 4G or 5G? Hopefully >>> directional.
It doesn't come with an antenna but my wireless router does have ports
for
external antennas. I tried a couple of vertical dipoles and it didn't add
much. I never got around to installing a directional outside.
Back in the day I was briefly involved with a company putting up
community wifi points.
They could get a couple of kilometres out of a 2,4GHz link with
carefully aligned antennae.
Mind you my radio control sets that run on 2,4GHz can do a couple of
hundred metres no sweat, with simple stub antennae.
I don't know if the chaps that put a "false ceiling" on my house used
one of those powder actuated tools, but I know that the hole went
through to the other side of my inside partition wall, about 6 cm thick, bricks plus plaster(?) cladding. I was not very happy. They were happy,
doing the job fast, not seeing the other side of the wall. Yeah, of
course they repaired that.
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric drill, that
made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a drill with
hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it became a piece of
cake :-)
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then you
had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a small
wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang a
picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a hand >> powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric drill,
that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a drill with
hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it became a piece
of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then
you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a
small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang
a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a >>> hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric
drill, that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a
drill with hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it
became a piece of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then
you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a
small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward. Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 14:05:39 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
Traditional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-hRTsNRuGU
Easier, sort of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmLZCcLWa-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Zt0O2lyhk
'John Henry' is the iconic folk hero song that everybody knew, at least
back in the day. Whether or not there ever was a John Henry doesn't
matter. Men have always competed against each other and took pride in
their skills. As mechanization came in, a steam drill in this case, they would race against the machine. I even saw that in the '70s as more operations were being automated.
Some of the jobs seemed suitable for strong backs and weak minds but
people took pride in doing them well and efficiently. I wonder how much of that exists anymore.
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my
brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang
a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a >>> hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric
drill, that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a
drill with hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it
became a piece of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then
you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a
small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward. Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
On 02/08/2025 13:05, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:Arguably a better product :-)
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in
my brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were >>>>>> astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang
a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a >>>> hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric
drill, that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a
drill with hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it
became a piece of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then
you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a
small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward.
Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
But you can't beat car body filler!
On 02/08/2025 13:05, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:Arguably a better product :-)
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my >>>>>> brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang
a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a >>>> hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric
drill, that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a
drill with hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it
became a piece of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then
you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a
small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward.
Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
But you can't beat car body filler!
Have a look at some youtube videos, doing maybe metal works at some
Asian country; lot of manual work. dangerous, I would say. I saw one yesterday, but did not save the link. Oh wait, it is in the history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26GzsYQPVyM
11. Enjoy being confident that the Bondo under the door thresholds will
still be solidly in place for at least as long as the rest of the house stands.
If you expect to ever remove the wire from the wall perhaps look into
that grey 'electricians sealing putty'. Holds up well long term but
does not turn into proverbial stone.
On 2025-08-02, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/08/2025 13:05, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:Arguably a better product :-)
On 8/1/25 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 19:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/08/2025 13:07, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-01 04:49, c186282 wrote:Clearly they weren't from Germany ir the Uk then :0)
On 7/31/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 14:04:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>
Got my 5G booster device. Alas gotta drill a hole in
my old, basically solid-poured concrete, house to
hold the outside antenna. While nothing in the
printed docs there's a small-print sticker on the
thing saying I'm supposed to "register" it with
my provider. Kinda too much work ...
May not proceed.
I had visitors from over the pond. They saw me drilling holes in my >>>>>>> brick and concrete walls (to hang some new curtains), they were
astonished.
Piece of cake :-p
Mind you, I saw my father make holes with a bit and a hammer to hang >>>>> a picture, and it was dreary work⁽¹⁾. An hour or two. He only had a >>>>> hand powered drill. Now, when he finally bought a small electric
drill, that made a whooping difference. And much later, I bought a
drill with hammering function, lots better/faster. That's when it
became a piece of cake :-)
A modern 'hammer drill' makes quick work of stone.
You can start with like a 1/4" hole and then a
larger bit as needed.
Note that not THAT long ago there were no electric
or other drills. You had a steel shaft with a hard
shaped tip - and hammered, twisted, hammered, twisted,
could take all day. 'Labor' was CHEAP then.
Yes, that's exactly what I saw my father doing, just for hanging a
picture on the wall, so not a wide hole. Maybe 1970.
(1) Of course, a large hammer would do a hole much faster, but then >>>>> you had to fill the resulting big hole with plaster or cement with a >>>>> small wood cylinder inside, where the nail would go.
Spray foam works well. A good grade ordinary
sheet foam works well too ... wrap it around a
wire and then force it into the hole. Some use
'putty' - good - or silicone goop (degrades in
about 10 years).
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward.
Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
But you can't beat car body filler!
That's what I decided nearly two decades ago when I had to
replace to exterior doors on my house built ~1971. Under each
doorway was a concrete floor that was slightly tilted in both
directions. The new-fangled door assemblies have an aluminum
threshold that requires a flat and level substrate.
The solution involved several steps:
1. Measure and mark exactly where the aluminum threshold will be
after the door assembly is installed.
2. Inside that marked area, drill a diamond grid of 3/16"
diameter, ~1" deep holes into the concrete.
3. Insert a plastic screw anchor into each hole.
4. Insert a square-drive, pan head sheet metal screw into each
screw anchor but with the heads not all the way down.
5. Using a level, adjust all the screws until the tops of the
screw heads are all as close as possible to perfectly level with
each other.
6. Fill the entire marked space with Bondo.
7. Let the Bondo cure.
8. Use a belt sander to remove the top of the Bondo until the
screw heads are just barely visible.
9. Use a Dremel tool with cut-off wheels to trim the edges of the
area marked in step 1.
10. Install the door, using Liquid Nails subfloor adhesive to
glue the aluminum threshold to the Bondo, Vulkem caulk on the
outdoor edge, and interior caulk on the indoor edge.
11. Enjoy being confident that the Bondo under the door
thresholds will still be solidly in place for at least as long as
the rest of the house stands.
On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 21:25:37 -0400, c186282 wrote:
If you expect to ever remove the wire from the wall perhaps look into
that grey 'electricians sealing putty'. Holds up well long term but
does not turn into proverbial stone.
Ah, monkey shit. The polite term is 'duct seal' but I never moved in
polite circles.
https://www.idealind.com/us/en/category/product.html/Duct_Seal.html
Some of the jobs seemed suitable for strong backs and weak minds but
people took pride in doing them well and efficiently. I wonder how much of that exists anymore.
On 02/08/2025 21:01, rbowman wrote:
Some of the jobs seemed suitable for strong backs and weak minds but
people took pride in doing them well and efficiently. I wonder how
much of
that exists anymore.
Go to any gym...
On 8/3/25 3:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/08/2025 21:01, rbowman wrote:
Some of the jobs seemed suitable for strong backs and weak minds but
people took pride in doing them well and efficiently. I wonder how
much of
that exists anymore.
Go to any gym...
Don't confuse "vanity buff" with the
mindset needed for hard/nasty labor.
On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 22:56:06 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Have a look at some youtube videos, doing maybe metal works at some
Asian country; lot of manual work. dangerous, I would say. I saw one
yesterday, but did not save the link. Oh wait, it is in the history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26GzsYQPVyM
Impressive even taking the sped up video into account but OSHA would not approve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Occupational_Safety_and_Health_Administration
I was getting started in the machine tool industry about the time OSHA
really got rolling. We added safety guards to the new presses and also received contracts to retrofit older machinery. Sometime the guards
created more potential pinch points than before but the OSHA inspectors
were happy.
I can't find a video but one safety feature that was introduced for punch presses was what was called a 'possum harness'. It was a system of gloves
or wrist straps and cables tied in with the machine so your hands would be forcibly removed from the die area. The operators hated them. After
getting your hands snatched back a couple of times you got with the flow.
The problem was they were cumbersome and most importantly they slowed down the operations like in some of the scenes where they were making bells.
Piece work incentives were popular and when you're getting paid by the
widget you don't want anything slowing you down.
I guess you would call it a meme of the day was a punch press operator ordering four beers -- holding up his two remaining fingers. It wasn't a press but my uncle was short one and a half fingers. Many people didn't
have a full set after they retired from a lifetime in the mills.
In that era being overly concerned with safety was equated with being
wimp.
On 8/2/25 8:05 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-02 08:34, c186282 wrote:
Back then we did not know of those products. Spain was very backward.
Consider that my father made by hand wood cylinders instead of plastic
wall studs.
Maybe OK in the average Spanish climate. Somewhere that
is very humid a lot of the time the wood will go soft
or rot or distort or be eaten by insects and fungus.
Metal studs are yer best bet. Plastic can be fair, but
continues to self-catalyze until it gets brittle in
10-25 years.
The task was to powercycle the router, when it hangs. When it hangs,
WiFi dies. Only the switch section survives (and I also have a separate >>switch by it).
I am planning to have either the Tasmota thingy act by itself when the
net goes down, or to have a raspberry pi be the access point for a
dedicated Wifi.
On 06/08/2025 13:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-06 13:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Mmm. you are right. My router has a 253 DHCP limit,
On 06/08/2025 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes. My current router allows only 32 entries. I have twoWhat an utterly crap ISP.
currently, I had more in the previous router. It is a chore to
find a backup of the table and manually enter it each time the ISP
replaces the router.
Its like going back to the days of 'you may not have more than two
machines on your network ' or 'if you exceed your monthly data
allowance we will cut you off, and demand payment with menaces'.
I left that ISP the very next day.
Is that the *only* possible ISP for you?
Other ISP do the same thing. And in this ISP, all the routers I had
for nearly two decades had a limited DHCP table. Even the routers I
bought had a limit (possibly bigger, but still a limit).
Well there are ways around THAT if it ever became a problem
On 2025-08-06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/08/2025 13:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-06 13:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Mmm. you are right. My router has a 253 DHCP limit,
On 06/08/2025 11:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes. My current router allows only 32 entries. I have twoWhat an utterly crap ISP.
currently, I had more in the previous router. It is a chore to
find a backup of the table and manually enter it each time the ISP
replaces the router.
Its like going back to the days of 'you may not have more than two
machines on your network ' or 'if you exceed your monthly data
allowance we will cut you off, and demand payment with menaces'.
I left that ISP the very next day.
Is that the *only* possible ISP for you?
Other ISP do the same thing. And in this ISP, all the routers I had
for nearly two decades had a limited DHCP table. Even the routers I
bought had a limit (possibly bigger, but still a limit).
Well there are ways around THAT if it ever became a problem
Isn't that just the limit of the "private network" prefix chosen,
i.e. I'm guessing it's because you're using 192.168.x.x/24 ?
0 thru 255, that's 256, minus gateway, minus broadcast, minus the router itself, that gives 253. So is it really limited at that in IPv4 or could
you just go with 10.0.0.0/16 instead?
Many places in Africa have gone directly to wireless technology.
They never deployed copper. The infrastructure is cheaper. Or way
too expensive with copper (or fibre).
Out in the cow-farms of Australia It's lucky to get any G since they
turned 3G off. 4G is bloody useless for coverage, and the telcos
just openly lie about the fact.
The USA is amazingly backward, given its wealth, in so many ways.
On 29 Jul 2025 09:14:02 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Out in the cow-farms of Australia It's lucky to get any G since they
turned 3G off. 4G is bloody useless for coverage, and the telcos
just openly lie about the fact.
I don't see why, if it's using the same frequency bands. Frequency is the primary determinant of physical radio signal range (given the same amount
of power), after all.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 29 Jul 2025 09:14:02 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Out in the cow-farms of Australia It's lucky to get any G since they
turned 3G off. 4G is bloody useless for coverage, and the telcos
just openly lie about the fact.
I don't see why, if it's using the same frequency bands. Frequency is the
primary determinant of physical radio signal range (given the same amount
of power), after all.
Unfortunately anyone with the time and documents to understand
exactly how it all works in is the employ of a company selling 4G
tech, so nobody's explaining the full details. But obviously there
are lots of technical changes which can counter that basic
assumption when applied to 4G, using multiple radios/antennas,
error correction, whatever equates to the minimum baud rate
(especially for what can handle digital voice data).
I noticed the same when 2G was turned off reception got worse too.
My old 2G/3G mobile broadband modem no longer got reception except
near the windows in my house (granted 2G speed was slow enough that
I did want it near a window anyway). Phone calls still worked
inside on 3G though, but even against the windows is dodgy on 4G -
I have to go outside now (when my landline's not working). It's not
even as reliable as 3G for making calls outdoors.
On 8/20/25 5:48 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 29 Jul 2025 09:14:02 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Out in the cow-farms of Australia It's lucky to get any G since they
turned 3G off. 4G is bloody useless for coverage, and the telcos
just openly lie about the fact.
I don't see why, if it's using the same frequency bands. Frequency is the >>> primary determinant of physical radio signal range (given the same amount >>> of power), after all.
Unfortunately anyone with the time and documents to understand
exactly how it all works in is the employ of a company selling 4G
tech, so nobody's explaining the full details. But obviously there
are lots of technical changes which can counter that basic
assumption when applied to 4G, using multiple radios/antennas,
error correction, whatever equates to the minimum baud rate
(especially for what can handle digital voice data).
I noticed the same when 2G was turned off reception got worse too.
My old 2G/3G mobile broadband modem no longer got reception except
near the windows in my house (granted 2G speed was slow enough that
I did want it near a window anyway). Phone calls still worked
inside on 3G though, but even against the windows is dodgy on 4G -
I have to go outside now (when my landline's not working). It's not
even as reliable as 3G for making calls outdoors.
Every "G" uses higher freqs and tighter encoding.
Higher freqs do NOT penetrate obstacles - even
just trees or little hills - as well. More
"RF shadows".
Encoding ... 'tighter' CAN mean 'more vulnerable
to errors'. Just a dropped bit here and there and
you can't extract the real data.
5-G is now over much of the USA.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
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