On 2025-08-18, TJ wrote:

On 2025-08-17 09:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/08/2025 13:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-08-16 20:34, Rich wrote:

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:

Le 14-08-2025, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> a écrit :

I've had *bad* luck with Nvidia.

Everyone is experiencing bad luck with Nvidia at a time or
another. Even
Ubuntu for which the drivers are designed has issues during
updates from
time to time.

Twenty five years go, Nvidia was the only way to have a modern graphic >>>>> card on Linux. Today, it's the worst.

I've noticed that, mostly, the folks having "issues with Nvidia" also
more often than not overlap with the set of users "who buy the newest
cutting edge thing the moment it arrives in the stores".  In those
instances, and with Linux, yes, it is no wonder they experience "issues >>>> with Nvidia".

I had trouble with Nvidia stopping support of my then old card. I
had to revert to Nouveau.

I think there are drivers for Nvidia going back to the year dot...

Perhaps. But getting them to build and work with more modern kernels
than they were designed for just isn't worth the trouble. Nvidia's
banking on that. Their business model is to "force" you to buy a new
card every so often.

Besides the proprietary drivers, doesn't nVidia have people working on
Nouveau too?

--
Nuno Silva

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Ummmmmmm ... WHY are we relying on INTEL to produce
Linux drivers for NVidia ???

Just askin'

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c186282 wrote:

WHY are we relying on INTEL to produce
Linux drivers for NVidia ?

Because Intel does not publish the source code to its drivers and the
exact specifications to its chips, so everything driver-wise will have
to be reverse-engineered, which obviously is a gigantic task that
currently is avoided by using their proprietary drivers.

-jw-
--
And now for something completely different...

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Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> wrote:

c186282 wrote:

WHY are we relying on INTEL to produce
Linux drivers for NVidia ?

Because Intel does not publish the source code to its drivers

I think they do contribute to the drivers in the Linux kernel which
is what this discussion was all about. Those are, by definition,
open-source. Firmware binaries are another matter.

For Nvidia too, I believe their latest Linux driver efforts, since
2022, are open-source:
https://www.phoronix.com/review/nvidia-open-kernel

Their code is here:
https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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On 8/18/25 11:22 AM, Joerg Walther wrote:

c186282 wrote:

WHY are we relying on INTEL to produce
Linux drivers for NVidia ?

Because Intel does not publish the source code to its drivers and the
exact specifications to its chips, so everything driver-wise will have
to be reverse-engineered, which obviously is a gigantic task that
currently is avoided by using their proprietary drivers.

Well, as-needed, REVERSE ENGINEER.

The Linux/Unix segment should NOT be dependent
on a commercial entity like Intel. Find good
solutions - open-source, free - or NOT AT ALL.

M$ and others have been working at inserting
SO much of their proprietary code into -IX
that, soon, they will CLAIM OWNERSHIP. IMHO
that IS The Plan. Then -IX goes away ... which
is exactly what they WANT. Colonize, Absorb,
Destroy.

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On 2025-08-19, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

M$ and others have been working at inserting
SO much of their proprietary code into -IX
that, soon, they will CLAIM OWNERSHIP. IMHO
that IS The Plan. Then -IX goes away ... which
is exactly what they WANT. Colonize, Absorb,
Destroy.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The first two are the
official marketing slogan of outfits like M$, but
it's the third that they're really after.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

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On 8/19/25 2:46 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2025-08-19, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

M$ and others have been working at inserting
SO much of their proprietary code into -IX
that, soon, they will CLAIM OWNERSHIP. IMHO
that IS The Plan. Then -IX goes away ... which
is exactly what they WANT. Colonize, Absorb,
Destroy.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The first two are the
official marketing slogan of outfits like M$, but
it's the third that they're really after.

And anyone interested in alt systems NEEDS TO RESIST.
SEE the plan, work AROUND the plan.

Hey, the Chinese can figure out how to work NVidia
chips ... why can't WE ???

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On 8/19/25 3:19 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 06:46:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The first two are the official marketing
slogan of outfits like M$, but it's the third that they're really after.

Microsoft tried that first with Linux. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember the “Get The Facts” campaign? Remember the crowing over the fact that the London Stock Exchange picked Windows Server over Linux to run
their mission-critical real-time trading system? Then after that system ignominiously fell apart, they switched to Linux anyway?

“Extinguish” failed. And Windows never recovered from its reputation for unreliability.

M$ has infinite LAWYERS ... they'll KEEP at it.

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On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 06:46:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The first two are the official marketing
slogan of outfits like M$, but it's the third that they're really after.

Microsoft tried that first with Linux. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember the “Get The Facts” campaign? Remember the crowing over the fact that the London Stock Exchange picked Windows Server over Linux to run
their mission-critical real-time trading system? Then after that system ignominiously fell apart, they switched to Linux anyway?

“Extinguish” failed. And Windows never recovered from its reputation for unreliability.

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Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

Because Intel does not publish the source code to its drivers

I think they do contribute to the drivers in the Linux kernel which
is what this discussion was all about. Those are, by definition,
open-source. Firmware binaries are another matter.

For Nvidia too, I believe their latest Linux driver efforts, since
2022, are open-source:

Thanks for updating me, I wasn't aware of that. With growing market
shares of Linux things will have to change.

-jw-
--
And now for something completely different...

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On 2025-08-19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 06:46:47 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. The first two are the official marketing
slogan of outfits like M$, but it's the third that they're really after.

Microsoft tried that first with Linux. Remember “Linux is a cancer”? Remember the “Get The Facts” campaign? Remember the crowing over the fact that the London Stock Exchange picked Windows Server over Linux to run
their mission-critical real-time trading system? Then after that system ignominiously fell apart, they switched to Linux anyway?

Then there was the TCO fiasco. It didn't take long for people to prove
that the total cost of ownership of a Linux system was less than that of
a Windows system. Funny how you don't hear M$ going on about TCO anymore.

“Extinguish” failed. And Windows never recovered from its reputation for unreliability.

I should hope not. They've been building that reputation for over 40
years. Their quality criteria are: "Sort of works, most of the time."
If that's good enough for them, it should be good enough for you.
Or so they say.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

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