Have a rather old Acer 57xx series i3 based
laptop. Belonged to my late brother - Vista
originally. Bought it for him.
REAL HDD, xVGA plug, one USB3, physical
wired network jack and built-in DVD.
Kinda big and heavy ... but as an old fart
it's easier to read the bigger screen.
Touch-pad IS kinda too small alas.
DID just order a new power supply - have NO
idea where the original is.
Booted - it wasn't Vista anymore but MX
"Liberetto".
Anyway, got a new power supply. The battery
is FRIED, but one is on order. Note it's
EASY to replace, NOT like in more modern
units.
Did the full disto update on Liberetto, so
the unit is pretty good now.
Short future, a Samsung 8xx series replacement
'HDD'. Not TOO expensive and ought to speed it
all up by 30-50%. Fun with 'DD' !
ANYway ... as old as this laptop is, with
a small/mid Linux it can STILL serve very
well. Don't be TOO eager to put hardware
into The Bin. The Problem is less often
the hardware and MORE with ultra-bloated
modern systems.
Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM
maybe, just for old times sake ? :-)
On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems.
Not enough CPU power too.
Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very
slowly on old machines.
On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote:
On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt.
Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems.
Not enough CPU power too.
Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very
slowly on old machines.
However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems.
On 2025-08-20 13:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote:
On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt.
Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems.
Not enough CPU power too.
Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very
slowly on old machines.
However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding
edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
My previous desktop computer was killed for:
* Nvidia refused to upgrade the proprietary driver for that card, so eventually had to switch to Nouveau
* VMware refused to run unless certain CPU instructions for
virtualisation existed. Virtualbox continued to run, but migration of machines failed for me.
* Motherboard was maxed with 8 GiB, would not accept more.
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
My previous laptop had more issues:
* 4 GiB
* Slow CPU, fanless
* Too small display.
So I bit the bullet and purchased a desktop machine with 64 GiB and a
laptop with 32. I expect them to last 10 or 15 years.
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
ANYway ... as old as this laptop is, with
a small/mid Linux it can STILL serve very
well. Don't be TOO eager to put hardware
into The Bin. The Problem is less often
the hardware and MORE with ultra-bloated
modern systems.
Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM
maybe, just for old times sake ? :-)
On 20/08/2025 12:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-20 13:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Looking back at my desktops they generally last 5-10 years after I buy
On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote:
On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt.
Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems.
Not enough CPU power too.
Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very
slowly on old machines.
However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding
edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
My previous desktop computer was killed for:
* Nvidia refused to upgrade the proprietary driver for that card, so
eventually had to switch to Nouveau
* VMware refused to run unless certain CPU instructions for
virtualisation existed. Virtualbox continued to run, but migration of
machines failed for me.
* Motherboard was maxed with 8 GiB, would not accept more.
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of
seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
My previous laptop had more issues:
* 4 GiB
* Slow CPU, fanless
* Too small display.
So I bit the bullet and purchased a desktop machine with 64 GiB and a
laptop with 32. I expect them to last 10 or 15 years.
them - usually secondhand.
This one is a 2015 model - It has at least 5 years more in it. It may
outlast me
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
Although I develop Windows programs, they're all back-end stuff - lots
of TCP/IP, not much GUI stuff.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:21:38 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Although I develop Windows programs, they're all back-end stuff - lots
of TCP/IP, not much GUI stuff.
Why not just run all that on Linux, with its much more advanced
development environment, and get rid of Windows completely?
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
On 8/21/25 2:51 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:21:38 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Although I develop Windows programs, they're all back-end stuff - lots
of TCP/IP, not much GUI stuff.
Why not just run all that on Linux, with its much more advanced
development environment, and get rid of Windows completely?
Some shops/offices are just (mistakenly) dedicated
to Winders stuff. The bosses don't want to seem
"abnormal", WILL stick to the conventional 'standard'
no matter what so they can't be criticized.
Been there ... retired.
On 2025-08-20, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:[...]
Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM
maybe, just for old times sake ? :-)
Go for it. I'm running an XP VM on the Lenovo T410 I'm
typing this on. Although I develop Windows programs,
they're all back-end stuff - lots of TCP/IP, not much
GUI stuff. XP is still enough, and avoids all the
bloat and hassle of newer versions of Windows.
I give it 512MB of memory and 16GB of disk - it runs
just fine, and leaves plenty for the Linux side.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network protocols?
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network protocols?
On 2025-08-21, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
You... install it? I guess not all OSes require bleeding edge hardware
to run the setup?
On 21/08/2025 11:31, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-08-21, Marco Moock wrote:A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
You... install it? I guess not all OSes require bleeding edge hardware
to run the setup?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Probably fine if you are not running a GUI and possibly good enough if
you are.
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 11:31, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-08-21, Marco Moock wrote:A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
You... install it? I guess not all OSes require bleeding edge hardware
to run the setup?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
Probably fine if you are not running a GUI and possibly good enough if
you are.
Windows 3.11, Win 95, as long as it did not crash. Linux was considered
an experiment.
On 21/08/2025 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:[...]
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No GUI on that then...A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:[...]
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No GUI on that then...A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
Maybe not with Linux, but a UNIX system of suitable vintage could.
My first PC (1994) was a Dell 486 with 16 MB. I installed UnixWare 1
on it (later updated to 2). X11 worked fine with either 1024x768
monochrome or 800x600 256 colours. Window manager was ctwm (a
modified twm with support for workspaces).
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
On 2025-08-20, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-08-20, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:[...]
Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM
maybe, just for old times sake ? :-)
Go for it. I'm running an XP VM on the Lenovo T410 I'm
typing this on. Although I develop Windows programs,
they're all back-end stuff - lots of TCP/IP, not much
GUI stuff. XP is still enough, and avoids all the
bloat and hassle of newer versions of Windows.
I give it 512MB of memory and 16GB of disk - it runs
just fine, and leaves plenty for the Linux side.
What build tools do you use in that setup?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:[...]
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No GUI on that then...A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
Maybe not with Linux, but a UNIX system of suitable vintage could.
My first PC (1994) was a Dell 486 with 16 MB. I installed UnixWare 1
on it (later updated to 2). X11 worked fine with either 1024x768
monochrome or 800x600 256 colours. Window manager was ctwm (a
modified twm with support for workspaces).
On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 21:30:51 +0200
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Heh, maybe 16 megs.No GUI on that then...
Maybe not with Linux, but a UNIX system of suitable vintage could.
Windows 3 was a GUI, and it certainly worked in that.
There seems to be a peculiar notion that GUIs *have* to be insanely
bloated, glitzy, over-featured monstrosities that chew up a couple gigs
all by themselves. Windows 3.x or Mac System 7 would run perfectly well
in 4 MB, and with 8 MB had room to spare. Heck, even older vintages of
X11 (nobody's idea of a lightweight GUI) will run usably in a 16-32 MB.
But hey! It's certainly a convenient line of reasoning for modern GUI developers who *do* chew up more memory just to run a display server/
window manager than you'd find in a whole entire PC twenty years ago!
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 11:31, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-08-21, Marco Moock wrote:A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
You... install it? I guess not all OSes require bleeding edge hardware
to run the setup?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
Probably fine if you are not running a GUI and possibly good enough if
you are.
Windows 3.11, Win 95, as long as it did not crash. Linux was considered
an experiment.
That windows is closing. My work Linux box is 32-bit Debian because I have
to build 32-bit legacy software. To clarify, the hardware is 64-bit so it could run the 64-bit Bullseye distro, and gcc has flags to build 32-bit.
The problem comes with libraries.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
That windows is closing. My work Linux box is 32-bit Debian because I
have to build 32-bit legacy software. To clarify, the hardware is
64-bit so it could run the 64-bit Bullseye distro, and gcc has flags to
build 32-bit. The problem comes with libraries.
FWIW my newer laptop runs 64-bit Devuan but with 32bit x86 multiarch so
32bit libraries are installed too and can be used to build/run 32bit x86 software. So it runs a 64bit kernel and mostly 64bit software.
Still there can be quirks, so there's a good argument for just going
with a 32bit install if you're mainly using the box for building/running 32bit software.
https://wiki.debian.org/CategoryMultiarch
Of course that still relies on Debian/Devuan supporting 32bit packages.
If they did stop, you would need to build all libraries from source for
x86. How nasty that task is depends on how many dependencies you have
for your 32bit builds.
All the staff are trained on [Windows]. All the specialised apps are
written for it.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:14:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
All the staff are trained on [Windows]. All the specialised apps are
written for it.
All the business stuff is cloud-based (i.e. Linux-based) with a Web
interface now. A simple Chromebook (Linux again) would be sufficient to
run it.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-08-21 12:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 11:31, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-08-21, Marco Moock wrote:A bleeding edge 1995 PC would be what? Early Pentium?
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
You... install it? I guess not all OSes require bleeding edge hardware >>>> to run the setup?
Moderately OK and better than a 486 .
32 bit *only* of course.
Unlikely to be able to deal with more than 4GB RAM
Heh, maybe 16 megs.
80MB actually, maxed out. Other Pentium 1 motherboards could take
much more, but only 24MB used now with a few windows open in X...
Probably fine if you are not running a GUI and possibly good enough if
you are.
Windows 3.11, Win 95, as long as it did not crash. Linux was considered
an experiment.
Win98 is installed too and runs well enough. Modern Linux in 80MB
RAM is probably an experiment from the Linux kernel dev's POV
today, but it was certainly meant to work properly in the past.
BasicLinux (based on Slackware 4) runs X on a PC with 16MB RAM: http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/
Probably not possible to run X in 16MB RAM with current Linux
though. Even with a fully stripped-down custom kernel build, modern
Linux takes up way more RAM than it did back then.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 21:30:51 +0200
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Heh, maybe 16 megs.No GUI on that then...
Maybe not with Linux, but a UNIX system of suitable vintage could.
Windows 3 was a GUI, and it certainly worked in that.
There seems to be a peculiar notion that GUIs *have* to be insanely
bloated, glitzy, over-featured monstrosities that chew up a couple gigs
all by themselves. Windows 3.x or Mac System 7 would run perfectly well
in 4 MB, and with 8 MB had room to spare. Heck, even older vintages of
X11 (nobody's idea of a lightweight GUI) will run usably in a 16-32 MB.
But hey! It's certainly a convenient line of reasoning for modern GUI developers who *do* chew up more memory just to run a display server/
window manager than you'd find in a whole entire PC twenty years ago!
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
On 21/08/2025 21:05, John Ames wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 21:30:51 +0200I meant specifically a unix based X window system which has *always*
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Heh, maybe 16 megs.No GUI on that then...
Maybe not with Linux, but a UNIX system of suitable vintage could.
Windows 3 was a GUI, and it certainly worked in that.
There seems to be a peculiar notion that GUIs *have* to be insanely
bloated, glitzy, over-featured monstrosities that chew up a couple gigs
all by themselves. Windows 3.x or Mac System 7 would run perfectly well
in 4 MB, and with 8 MB had room to spare. Heck, even older vintages of
X11 (nobody's idea of a lightweight GUI) will run usably in a 16-32 MB.
But hey! It's certainly a convenient line of reasoning for modern GUI
developers who *do* chew up more memory just to run a display server/
window manager than you'd find in a whole entire PC twenty years ago!
been a bloated monstrosity IME
many times the size of a Windows installation with less fuinctionality
up to around 2003 or thereabouts
On 8/21/25 6:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
No.
Now if you just MUST have BT and full plug-n-play
with all the goodies and USB3.x ....
Anyway, there are still a number of perfectly good
Linux distros with 32-bit versions. Just find a
somewhat thin version that won't use up an old PC.
I meant specifically a unix based X window system which has *always*
been a bloated monstrosity IME
many times the size of a Windows installation with less fuinctionality
up to around 2003 or thereabouts
On 22/08/2025 14:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Frankly, I cant be arsed.
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess. >>>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
No.
Now if you just MUST have BT and full plug-n-play
with all the goodies and USB3.x ....
Anyway, there are still a number of perfectly good
Linux distros with 32-bit versions. Just find a
somewhat thin version that won't use up an old PC.
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30 years
old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
Had to go to the bank today. The mice banking lady had a beautifully
clean dell laptop (and violet fingernails, but I digress). She said
they would be getting new ones later in the year.
THAT's the sorta old kit I want, (not the banking lady)
On 22/08/2025 14:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Frankly, I cant be arsed.
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess. >>>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
No.
Now if you just MUST have BT and full plug-n-play
with all the goodies and USB3.x ....
Anyway, there are still a number of perfectly good
Linux distros with 32-bit versions. Just find a
somewhat thin version that won't use up an old PC.
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30 years
old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
There's always Damn Small Linux ... but their page
no longer specifies if it's 32-bit or 64 only. Given the audience
though it's probably 32.
Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely acknowledge like
why Conky hasn't been starting since I last upgraded Devuan on my newer laptop.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22/08/2025 14:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Frankly, I cant be arsed.
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I guess. >>>>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network
protocols?
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
No.
Now if you just MUST have BT and full plug-n-play
with all the goodies and USB3.x ....
Anyway, there are still a number of perfectly good
Linux distros with 32-bit versions. Just find a
somewhat thin version that won't use up an old PC.
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30 years
old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
I look at it the other way - I can't be arsed changing systems
every other day. Ten years between newsreader upgrades is a fair
investment of time in that for me (especially given the debugging).
On systems kept up to date to run Firefox etc., there are lots of
niggling issues with hardware/software changes over the years which
I don't bother to fix because I'm using the old hardware/software
most of the time where I've put the work in already. I still need
put time into fixing the big issues after upgrades to my (more)
up-to-date hardware/software, but at least I can ignore the little
ones.
I've never even found a graphical file manager that I like in newer
Linux since the ones I've used before became hard to build (or
crash when you do) after years of being unmaintained. I thought
about asking here for recommendations, but bugger it, I just use
the command line or MC there since I don't have to sort file out
much compared to the photos, documents, and source code done on old
systems. Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely
acknowledge like why Conky hasn't been starting since I last
upgraded Devuan on my newer laptop. Torsmo, an ancestor of Conky is
still running like always on this old PC.
Oops, out of free time just from writing this rant now...
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30 years
old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
Had to go to the bank today. The mice banking lady had a beautifully
clean dell laptop (and violet fingernails, but I digress). She said
they would be getting new ones later in the year.
THAT's the sorta old kit I want, (not the banking lady)
Purple nails ... NOT the best sign 🙂
Anyway, there's lots of 5-10 year old equipment out
there that's perfectly good/great if you put Linux
on it instead of Winders.
Now women, the minimally "made" ones are yer best bet.
Too vain about themselves generally means too vain about
their boyfriends. Better own a Lambo and super-yacht in
six months or .......
Knew an archeologist into mountain biking ... never
made up, often a bit muddy. She was a good one, a
Real Person 🙂
Got in the new batt for my old Acer - it charges. All good.
Now gotta decide whether to replace the HDD with an SSD ...
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old and new computers."
That is better than mv/rm/cp where every file name needs to be specified
On 23 Aug 2025 14:09:52 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely acknowledge like
why Conky hasn't been starting since I last upgraded Devuan on my newer
laptop.
systemd trouble?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:48:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That is better than mv/rm/cp where every file name needs to be specified
Try mmv for bulk renaming. Also special-purpose scripts for more unusual scenarios (been there, done that).
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old
and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would wake
up again..
Le 23-08-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a ecrit :
On 23 Aug 2025 14:09:52 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely acknowledge like
why Conky hasn't been starting since I last upgraded Devuan on my newer
laptop.
systemd trouble?
No. From my understanding, devuan is debian without systemd. So if
systemd could have help in finding the issue, it can't be hold
responsible for the issue.
Le 23-08-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
On 23 Aug 2025 14:09:52 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely acknowledge like
why Conky hasn't been starting since I last upgraded Devuan on my
newer laptop.
systemd trouble?
From my understanding, devuan is debian without systemd.
On 2025-08-23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:48:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That is better than mv/rm/cp where every file name needs to be
specified
Try mmv for bulk renaming. Also special-purpose scripts for more
unusual scenarios (been there, done that).
Good old wild cards are enough for many things if you (are allowed to) develop good file-naming conventions.
On 23/08/2025 05:01, c186282 wrote:
Ah well, the signals are a little different in the UK.
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30
years old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
Had to go to the bank today. The mice banking lady had a beautifully
clean dell laptop (and violet fingernails, but I digress). She said
they would be getting new ones later in the year.
THAT's the sorta old kit I want, (not the banking lady)
Purple nails ... NOT the best sign 🙂
Anyway, there's lots of 5-10 year old equipment outWell that was in fact my point.
there that's perfectly good/great if you put Linux
on it instead of Winders.
5-10 years old is cheap as chips and works with current releases just fine
Now women, the minimally "made" ones are yer best bet.Women who listen to their stupid mothers are the worst.
Too vain about themselves generally means too vain about
their boyfriends. Better own a Lambo and super-yacht in
six months or .......
Knew an archeologist into mountain biking ... neverOh that, Yup. But working in a bank yoiu are expected to Dress Up a little
made up, often a bit muddy. She was a good one, a
Real Person 🙂
Got in the new batt for my old Acer - it charges. All good.
Now gotta decide whether to replace the HDD with an SSD ...
You know you want to.
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old
and
new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would wake
up again..
On 23/08/2025 05:09, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Well apart from building Pi shaped stuff I am reunning on the server
On 22/08/2025 14:46, c186282 wrote:
On 8/21/25 6:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Frankly, I cant be arsed.
On 21/08/2025 10:51, Marco Moock wrote:
On 21.08.2025 07:54 Computer Nerd Kev wrote:Find an older version of some current Linux that supports 32bit I
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old...
For posting to Usenet, this 30 year old PC is doing fine for me.
How do you install a current OS on it that supports current network >>>>>> protocols?
guess.
TCP/IP and Usenet haven't changed in 30 years really...
No.
Now if you just MUST have BT and full plug-n-play
with all the goodies and USB3.x ....
Anyway, there are still a number of perfectly good
Linux distros with 32-bit versions. Just find a
somewhat thin version that won't use up an old PC.
I am not the sort of guy who has time to spare trying to make 30 years
old shit do whatever it did back in the day.
I look at it the other way - I can't be arsed changing systems
every other day. Ten years between newsreader upgrades is a fair
investment of time in that for me (especially given the debugging).
On systems kept up to date to run Firefox etc., there are lots of
niggling issues with hardware/software changes over the years which
I don't bother to fix because I'm using the old hardware/software
most of the time where I've put the work in already. I still need
put time into fixing the big issues after upgrades to my (more)
up-to-date hardware/software, but at least I can ignore the little
ones.
that used to be my desktop (2016), because the previous one juts stopped working. (2007).
The desktop is a 10 year old HP as is the laptop. I've managed to break
three laptops
I've never even found a graphical file manager that I like in newerAs long as I can open and close files I joint give a **** about what is
Linux since the ones I've used before became hard to build (or
crash when you do) after years of being unmaintained. I thought
about asking here for recommendations, but bugger it, I just use
the command line or MC there since I don't have to sort file out
much compared to the photos, documents, and source code done on old
systems. Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely
acknowledge like why Conky hasn't been starting since I last
upgraded Devuan on my newer laptop. Torsmo, an ancestor of Conky is
still running like always on this old PC.
doing it.,
This one is nice. I can highlight random bunches of files and copy/move/delete them.
That is better than mv/rm/cp where every file name needs to be specified
Oops, out of free time just from writing this rant now...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:50:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old
and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would wake
up again..
Have you noticed the ones who complain the loudest about that sort of
thing, right here in these noisegroups, can’t write code worth a dar
Le 23-08-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
On 23 Aug 2025 14:09:52 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Then there are all the smaller niggles that I barely acknowledge like
why Conky hasn't been starting since I last upgraded Devuan on my newer
laptop.
systemd trouble?
No. From my understanding, devuan is debian without systemd. So if
systemd could have help in finding the issue, it can't be hold
responsible for the issue.
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:50:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old
and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would wake
up again..
I have tree-hugging tendencies but the US Green Party has been captured by the social justice warriors. Earth First! had the same problem in the late '80s with several of the founders leaving in disgust by 1990.
On 8/23/25 5:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for
old and
new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would
wake up again..
I'd have got up and walked ..........
Really.
LAST thing you want is an "ideological/partisan" doc !
Hippocrates or NOTHING.
On 8/23/25 6:22 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:50:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for old >>>> and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would wake
up again..
Have you noticed the ones who complain the loudest about that sort of
thing, right here in these noisegroups, can’t write code worth a dar
Come ON Larry - do you REALLY want an 'ideological'
doc ???
LOOK for Hippocrates.
Genuine conservation and care for the environment was a perfect anti-government anti-capitalist movement for the soviets to subvert,
pour money into, and turn into a monster.
On 24/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
On 8/23/25 5:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well he was in fact capable. Pumped me full of fentanyl, removed a loose tooth, and woke me up 3 hours later
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for
old and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would
wake up again..
I'd have got up and walked ..........
Really.
LAST thing you want is an "ideological/partisan" doc !
No ... I'm too fuckin' OLD now to get off on rewriting drivers and
such. Whatever, it should mostly Just Work. Can stand just a FEW
tweaks. It's not 1995 anymore.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 10:58:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
On 8/23/25 5:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well he was in fact capable. Pumped me full of fentanyl, removed a loose
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for
old and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would
wake up again..
I'd have got up and walked ..........
Really.
LAST thing you want is an "ideological/partisan" doc !
tooth, and woke me up 3 hours later
Dentistry must be different in the UK. I got a needle full of local anesthetic for my last extraction and went for a hike afterwards. I've
never been sedated. Sedation wasn't offered and I don't know if it was
even available.
Twenty five years or so ago a dentist might write a hydrocodone script
after an extraction. Now you're lucky to get Tylenol. In fact after the operation to pin a broken femur a few years back, I got Tylenol a couple
of days. It doesn't do much for me so I passed. I think if you yelled, screamed, wept, and so forth you might get tramadol. However when they
show me that cute little chart of pain levels from 1 to 10 I usually pick 'mildly annoying'.
Genuine conservation and care for the environment was a perfect anti-government anti-capitalist movement for the soviets to subvert,
pour money into, and turn into a monster.
And AFAIK they (the FSB) are still doing it.
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardware Ihave
about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 14:33:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardware Ihave
about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
I've got a gamma nail. Cute piece of hardware. My grandmother broke her
hip back in the '50s. They might as well have shot her then and there. I don't think she ever got out of bed again. It took a little while to
regain the mobility to throw a leg over a bike but I got it done. I'll
admit that after I've come back from a hike I really have to think about
what I'm doing so I don't hit the right side saddlebag. For a while I only used the left one.
After that I moved to a Harley 74 (first year with good
rear suspension) I went to watch a hill climb in the San Joaquin valley
and the CHP had the exits covered and I took it down in the dust.
CHP, whom I had been gandering at came over and helped me get it upright again.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 21:12:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
After that I moved to a Harley 74 (first year with good
rear suspension) I went to watch a hill climb in the San Joaquin valley
and the CHP had the exits covered and I took it down in the dust.
CHP, whom I had been gandering at came over and helped me get it upright
again.
My first bike was a '55 FLH. Rear suspension?
To be clear the gamma nail had nothing to do with a bike. Ice was the culprit. I wear microspikes or YakTrax on the trails around here but I was 'just' walking a couple of blocks to get something for lunch at the
grocery store. I'd navigated a couple of patches of ice but cut back to
the sidewalk too soon.
Being of a certain age the 'do you fall a lot?' questions were
inevitable.
My mom's training to get back on the horse that threw you is not good
for people over 70.
On 8/24/25 18:47, rbowman wrote:I had an Allstate moped once ... took me a month
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 14:33:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardware Ihave
about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
I've got a gamma nail. Cute piece of hardware. My grandmother broke her
hip back in the '50s. They might as well have shot her then and there. I
don't think she ever got out of bed again. It took a little while to
regain the mobility to throw a leg over a bike but I got it done. I'll
admit that after I've come back from a hike I really have to think about
what I'm doing so I don't hit the right side saddlebag. For a while I
only
used the left one.
I have been down several times in my distant youth on my motorcycles.
First one was an Allstate Steyr-Puch-Dailmer which I ran into a tree left lying at the side of the road.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 10:55:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Genuine conservation and care for the environment was a perfect
anti-government anti-capitalist movement for the soviets to subvert,
pour money into, and turn into a monster.
I don't believe the Soviets had much effect in the '80s, but the seeds had been planted a generation earlier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judi_Bari
Bari was one of people that transformed Earth First! and was what is
referred to as a red diaper baby, Her parents were leftist and she
followed in their footsteps.
The resurrection and, should I say, cultural appropriation, of the IWW was part of the package. The IWW was done after the 1924 schism but the
concept lived on to be plastered over with woke.
Some of the red diaper crew switched sides. David Horowitz (I didn't
realize he died in April. No big loss) started out on the far left. His moment on the road to Damascus was after he recommended his friend, Betty
Van Patter, to the Black Panthers as a bookkeeper. After she was raped and killed Horowitz suddenly lost interest in paling around with Schwartzers
and the left in general. He was still an asshole but a neoconservative
one. He's not unique in that transition.
When termites nibble away at the foundations of the US they're not fussy about which side they chomping on.
The Soviets probably got a lot of laughs.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 10:58:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
On 8/23/25 5:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well he was in fact capable. Pumped me full of fentanyl, removed a loose
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for
old and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would
wake up again..
I'd have got up and walked ..........
Really.
LAST thing you want is an "ideological/partisan" doc !
tooth, and woke me up 3 hours later
Dentistry must be different in the UK. I got a needle full of local anesthetic for my last extraction and went for a hike afterwards. I've
never been sedated. Sedation wasn't offered and I don't know if it was
even available.
Twenty five years or so ago a dentist might write a hydrocodone script
after an extraction. Now you're lucky to get Tylenol. In fact after the operation to pin a broken femur a few years back, I got Tylenol a couple
of days. It doesn't do much for me so I passed. I think if you yelled, screamed, wept, and so forth you might get tramadol. However when they
show me that cute little chart of pain levels from 1 to 10 I usually pick 'mildly annoying'.
My grandmother broke her
hip back in the '50s. They might as well have shot her then and there.
At 88 my normal state is Kranky.
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardware I have about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 01:04:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:I looked at that chip too. But I had a living to make and IBM PC clones
No ... I'm too fuckin' OLD now to get off on rewriting drivers and
such. Whatever, it should mostly Just Work. Can stand just a FEW
tweaks. It's not 1995 anymore.
Precisely. Been there, done that, and have the t-shirt. Literally.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/92795484/reserved-rare-1979-vintage-captain- zilog
They handed them out at a Z8000 seminar. That would have been my choice
over the 8086 but so it goes. There were technical problems but I don't
think it was even considered. Exxon owned Zilog and was in a pissing
contest with IBM.
I looked at that chip too. But I had a living to make and IBM PC clones
were the order of the day so that's the target hardware I wrote for,
mostly
Its hard for people who haven't experienced it close up to understand
the appeal of and the illogic inherent in, in the collectivist Dream.
OR the mindset of those who use it to destroy any semblance of democracy
and impose a totalitarian regime, or the constant fear they have that
people will notice that life is better in capitalist democracies. And
slip a poisonous mushroom in their soup.
I have only had dental pain *before* going to the dentist. Once the
offending thing is drilled to relieve pressure or extracted, there is no
pain
On 8/25/25 12:12 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I had an Allstate moped once ... took me a month to realize it had a
On 8/24/25 18:47, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 14:33:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:I have been down several times in my distant youth on my
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardwarehave
I
about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
I've got a gamma nail. Cute piece of hardware. My grandmother broke
her hip back in the '50s. They might as well have shot her then and
there. I don't think she ever got out of bed again. It took a little
while to regain the mobility to throw a leg over a bike but I got it
done. I'll admit that after I've come back from a hike I really have
to think about what I'm doing so I don't hit the right side saddlebag.
For a while I only used the left one.
motorcycles.
First one was an Allstate Steyr-Puch-Dailmer which I ran into a tree
left lying at the side of the road.
high gear :-)
On 24/08/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 01:04:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:I looked at that chip too. But I had a living to make and IBM PC clones were the order of the day so that's the target hardware I wrote for, mostly
No ... I'm too fuckin' OLD now to get off on rewriting drivers and >>> such. Whatever, it should mostly Just Work. Can stand just a FEW
tweaks. It's not 1995 anymore.
Precisely. Been there, done that, and have the t-shirt. Literally.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/92795484/reserved-rare-1979-vintage-captain-
zilog
They handed them out at a Z8000 seminar. That would have been my choice
over the 8086 but so it goes. There were technical problems but I don't
think it was even considered. Exxon owned Zilog and was in a pissing
contest with IBM.
On 24/08/2025 21:12, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 10:58:17 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Ha, He wasn't a dentist though. He was an anaesthetist. Worried about a
On 24/08/2025 06:09, c186282 wrote:
On 8/23/25 5:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well he was in fact capable. Pumped me full of fentanyl, removed a loose >>> tooth, and woke me up 3 hours later
On 23/08/2025 05:53, rbowman wrote:
"Proudly anti-fascist "antiX Magic" in an environment suitable for >>>>>> old and new computers."
That alone tells me the coders weren't on the case,
When my anaesthetist told me he was a Green, I wondered if I would
wake up again..
I'd have got up and walked ..........
Really.
LAST thing you want is an "ideological/partisan" doc !
Dentistry must be different in the UK. I got a needle full of local
anesthetic for my last extraction and went for a hike afterwards. I've
never been sedated. Sedation wasn't offered and I don't know if it was
even available.
loose tooth and doing me a favour ex gratia which would normally have
cost about $300...
The actual operation was to remove chunks of bone pressing on to my
spinal column.
.
Twenty five years or so ago a dentist might write a hydrocodone script
after an extraction. Now you're lucky to get Tylenol. In fact after the
operation to pin a broken femur a few years back, I got Tylenol a couple
of days. It doesn't do much for me so I passed. I think if you yelled,
screamed, wept, and so forth you might get tramadol. However when they
show me that cute little chart of pain levels from 1 to 10 I usually pick
'mildly annoying'.
I have only had dental pain *before* going to the dentist. Once the
offending thing is drilled to relieve pressure or extracted, there is no
pain
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 01:34:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 8/25/25 12:12 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I had an Allstate moped once ... took me a month to realize it had a
On 8/24/25 18:47, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 14:33:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:I have been down several times in my distant youth on my
Thank you very much. As to what this has to do with hardware >>>>> Ihave
about 4 screws and 2 stainless rods holding the fused mess together.
I've got a gamma nail. Cute piece of hardware. My grandmother broke
her hip back in the '50s. They might as well have shot her then and
there. I don't think she ever got out of bed again. It took a little
while to regain the mobility to throw a leg over a bike but I got it
done. I'll admit that after I've come back from a hike I really have
to think about what I'm doing so I don't hit the right side saddlebag. >>>> For a while I only used the left one.
motorcycles.
First one was an Allstate Steyr-Puch-Dailmer which I ran into a tree
left lying at the side of the road.
high gear :-)
That's an ongoing battle -- exactly how does a e-bike capable of 26+ mph differ from a moped? I don't know if it's a blanket ban yet but most
trails around here have added a prominent 'no e-bikes' icon to the no motorcycles or ATVs signs.
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 12:30:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Nah. its traditional. 'King John died from a surfeit of peaches' my arse.
Its hard for people who haven't experienced it close up to understand
the appeal of and the illogic inherent in, in the collectivist Dream.
OR the mindset of those who use it to destroy any semblance of democracy
and impose a totalitarian regime, or the constant fear they have that
people will notice that life is better in capitalist democracies. And
slip a poisonous mushroom in their soup.
I thought they only used mushrooms in Australia.
That particular moped could do almost 50 in high gear - but still
qualified as a moped.
Did induce the bosses to buy the BASCOM compiler.
BASIC may not be an "ideal" lang but you COULD do quite a lot with
it. Back then everybody knew BASIC so it was safe/standard.
Hmmmmm ... USA ... the norm IS a couple shots of a local. It works
and it's far safer than a general.
Also a dentist can do it, no need for an anesthesia pro. Even had a
molar implant put in using a local, no probs. Biggest annoyance is
numb-tongue for several hours after.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 03:47:03 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hmmmmm ... USA ... the norm IS a couple shots of a local. It works
and it's far safer than a general.
Also a dentist can do it, no need for an anesthesia pro. Even had a
molar implant put in using a local, no probs. Biggest annoyance is
numb-tongue for several hours after.
Followed by the realization several hours later that your tongue has teeth marks and it wasn't from a passionate makeout session.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server
with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level" notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21
Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server
with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level"
notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several
(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21
Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server
with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level"
notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several
(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
On 2025-08-27 19:49, Marc Haber wrote:
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
Hum.
Mine is "ThinkPad L14 Gen 3" (Lenovo), bought March 2023. I'm very
satisfied so far.
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21
Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server
with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level"
notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several
(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
On 8/27/25 1:49 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
Yep ! IBM started outsourcing around then. The early
clones were NOT very good.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 8/27/25 1:49 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >>>> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >>>> I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
Yep ! IBM started outsourcing around then. The early
clones were NOT very good.
I am talking about the current machines, and the ones being sold about
in the last decade. That was way after the brand was moved to Lenovo.
Not only are those machines nearly unbreakable, the hardware
maintenance manual is publicly availalbe, and with the FRU¹ number you
can buy your parts on Ebay. That's very convenient if you want to use
the machine beyond its warranty period.
Greetings
Marc
¹ Field Replacable Unit, I don't know how common that abbreviation is
in English common language
Lenovo BECAME good ... but didn't really START that way.
It was just "Fake-IBM" for awhile ....
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> writes:
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
What about the W series which became the P series, as I recall?
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Lenovo BECAME good ... but didn't really START that way.
It was just "Fake-IBM" for awhile ....
You might not know that IBM-labeled Thinkpads were built by Lenovo for
years.
The first machines that Lenovo was completely responsible for
sitll had the IBM label. The first Lenovo-labeled Thinkpads were
almost as good as their predecessors. The great IBM keyboard was the
first thing that died. The new keyboard is inferior but still good.
Today's Thinkpads are no longer what they used to be but they still
have their advantages.
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu,
21 Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of
server with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most
"consumer level" notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had
several
(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >>quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
My previous desktop computer was killed for:[...]
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
On 2025-08-20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My previous desktop computer was killed for:[...]
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of
seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
Do you recall more about what this might have been?
Perhaps it was some change in the linux default I/O scheduler?
On 2025-08-20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My previous desktop computer was killed for:[...]
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of
seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
Do you recall more about what this might have been?
Perhaps it was some change in the linux default I/O scheduler?
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 2025-08-20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My previous desktop computer was killed for:[...]
* Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc
update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of
seeking. The cure was switching to SSD.
Do you recall more about what this might have been?
Perhaps it was some change in the linux default I/O scheduler?
If the computer is swapping more than trivial amounts there’s no way performance is going to be remotely acceptable anyway.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 02:47:57 |
| Calls: | 10,387 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 14,061 |
| Messages: | 6,416,755 |