How long has version 3 been in the works? Seems like years.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 17:13:34 +0000
Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> wrote:
Like LibreOffice, GIMP is GIMP and it does not attempt
any emulation.
That's a farcical claim,
when its UI from the get-go has been a naked
clone of Photoshop
The biggest difference is that Photoshop's workflow
and UX choices are generally well thought-out and helpful, while GIMP's
are clunky and awkward.
That's a farcical claim, when its UI from the get-go has been a naked
clone of Photoshop - first in its original Mac-style "separate windows
for documents & tool palettes" incarnation, and then in its later
"single window, tool palette on the left, extended options docked on
the right" version. The biggest difference is that Photoshop's workflow
and UX choices are generally well thought-out and helpful, while GIMP's
are clunky and awkward.
(I could write an essay on how slackass GIMP's UI design is
So, is it an actual “clone” of the Photoshop UI or not? If it is identical to the Photoshop UI, then it would be just as “clunky and awkward” as Photoshop.
There's no doubt that running Windows or macOS allows one to access commercial software that would best GIMP, but that doesn't mean GIMP
is without a lot of use, it's good enough for me to get by, as LO or
WPS Office suites for me are fine, I'm not married to M$ or Adobe. But
we have to understand the people who are married to them, and feel
lucky that our burdens are so much lighter.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
I shall treat this golden wisdom with the reverence it deserves. Thank
you, O great sage, for blessing me with the insights of your mighty
brain.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
*Master* of rhetoric.
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
For many people, it's nothing more than a pissing match over the number
of features that their favourite software package offers. Whether they >>actually use those features or not is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly >distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 08:41:03 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
How long has version 3 been in the works? Seems like years.
Too long for you? Well, then why don't you contribute to its
development?
GIMP offers many channels for contributors.
Otherwise stop complaining. This is FOSS, and FOSS does
not magically grow on trees.
GIMP is one of the great wonders of the FOSS world.
GIMP outshines commercial competitors in many areas but
commercial software is oriented towards idiots. GIMP,
for the most part, is not.
Like LibreOffice, GIMP is GIMP and it does not attempt
any emulation.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 20:45:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So, is it an actual “clone” of the Photoshop UI or not? If it is
identical to the Photoshop UI, then it would be just as “clunky and
awkward” as Photoshop.
I've never used PhotoShop but I consider GIMP an excellent example of how
not to do it. The latest I have is 2.10 on Debian; I don't know if 3 is
any better.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 17:13:34 +0000
Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> wrote:
Like LibreOffice, GIMP is GIMP and it does not attempt
any emulation.
That's a farcical claim, when its UI from the get-go has been a naked
clone of Photoshop - first in its original Mac-style "separate windows
for documents & tool palettes" incarnation, and then in its later
"single window, tool palette on the left, extended options docked on
the right" version. The biggest difference is that Photoshop's workflow
and UX choices are generally well thought-out and helpful, while GIMP's
are clunky and awkward.
(Shame, because GIMP's technical functionality is quite solid. Yet
another cautionary tale about the unfortunate tendency of programmers,
left to themselves, to treat user experience and UI design as an afterthought...)
On 2024-12-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
There's no doubt that running Windows or macOS allows one to access
commercial software that would best GIMP, but that doesn't mean GIMP
is without a lot of use, it's good enough for me to get by, as LO or
WPS Office suites for me are fine, I'm not married to M$ or Adobe. But
we have to understand the people who are married to them, and feel
lucky that our burdens are so much lighter.
For many people, it's nothing more than a pissing match over the number
of features that their favourite software package offers. Whether they actually use those features or not is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
Ah we have a total dickhead in the group
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 11:59:11 -0800, John Ames wrote:
(I could write an essay on how slackass GIMP's UI design is
One must fell a tree.
One is confronted with an axe and a chainsaw.
I choose the axe and I can bring down that tree faster than
some flabby idiot who has no choice but to pick up the chain saw.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:26:30 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ah we have a total dickhead in the group
You got that part right.
But the actual identity thereof might give you quite a shock.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
On 2024-12-27 10:25, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2024-12-27, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
There's no doubt that running Windows or macOS allows one to access
commercial software that would best GIMP, but that doesn't mean GIMP
is without a lot of use, it's good enough for me to get by, as LO or
WPS Office suites for me are fine, I'm not married to M$ or Adobe. But
we have to understand the people who are married to them, and feel
lucky that our burdens are so much lighter.
For many people, it's nothing more than a pissing match over the number
of features that their favourite software package offers. Whether they
actually use those features or not is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good. Maybe commercial software is better, dunno. It doesn't matter
to me, it covers way more than my needs.
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 11:59:11 -0800, John Ames wrote:
(I could write an essay on how slackass GIMP's UI design is
One must fell a tree.
One is confronted with an axe and a chainsaw.
I choose the axe and I can bring down that tree faster than
some flabby idiot who has no choice but to pick up the chain saw.
I'm not a professional logger. I'm just an old farmer who over the years
has used both, and if well maintained the saw is faster and more
accurate for putting the tree where you want it instead of on your
pickup truck.
I've also bucked the tree into pieces with a chainsaw and with a
crosscut hand saw, both one-man and two-man, and the chainsaw is easier, faster, and better.
I've also split many a log into firewood with a hammer and wedges, as
well as with a gasoline-powered hydraulic log splitter, and the log
splitter will split tangled logs into usable pieces with ease that a
hammer and wedges won't touch no matter how long you beat on them.
Perhaps you believe that the exercise from using hand tools is better
for health. Well, anybody who thinks you don't get a workout when using
power tools to put up a winter's supply of firewood clearly has never actually done the task.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 20:45:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So, is it an actual “clone” of the Photoshop UI or not? If it is
identical to the Photoshop UI, then it would be just as “clunky and
awkward” as Photoshop.
I've never used PhotoShop but I consider GIMP an excellent example of
how not to do it. The latest I have is 2.10 on Debian; I don't know if
3 is any better.
Meh. One gets used to a product.... or moves on.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 07:59:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 20:45:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So, is it an actual “clone” of the Photoshop UI or not? If it is
identical to the Photoshop UI, then it would be just as “clunky and
awkward” as Photoshop.
I've never used PhotoShop but I consider GIMP an excellent example of
how not to do it. The latest I have is 2.10 on Debian; I don't know if
3 is any better.
Meh. One gets used to a product.... or moves on.
I never used GIMP enough to get used to it. The use case: I've scraped
some SVG icons that I need to lightly edit; I do not have PhotoShop but I
do have GIMP on the Linux box. I start GIMP and find something that wants
to spawn windows like mold spores reproducing in a Petri dish.
GIMP certainly wasn't the only application to take that approach. There
was a period where you had to have dialogs you could tear off and let
float around or dock at various points. Thankfully it seems to have
passed.
I think Inkscape is better for SVG. Even a big Windows .NET programmer
type at work would use it to create his icons and logos.
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Farley Flud wrote:
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
For many people, it's nothing more than a pissing match over the number
of features that their favourite software package offers. Whether they
actually use those features or not is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
Indeed. I was tired of hearing about it decades ago. I've never once
had any need for either.
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:33:42 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I think Inkscape is better for SVG. Even a big Windows .NET programmer
type at work would use it to create his icons and logos.
Probably. What I was doing wasn't very complicated, mostly changing fill colors to display incidents on a map by type.
I remember Visual Studio having some sort of editor so you could create icons. I knew then life was going to get a lot more complicated. I never could create an icon that looked like anything.
On 27/12/2024 15:42, TJ wrote:
I'm not a professional logger. I'm just an old farmer who over the
years has used both, and if well maintained the saw is faster and more
accurate for putting the tree where you want it instead of on your
pickup truck.
I've also bucked the tree into pieces with a chainsaw and with a
crosscut hand saw, both one-man and two-man, and the chainsaw is
easier, faster, and better.
I've also split many a log into firewood with a hammer and wedges, as
well as with a gasoline-powered hydraulic log splitter, and the log
splitter will split tangled logs into usable pieces with ease that a
hammer and wedges won't touch no matter how long you beat on them.
Perhaps you believe that the exercise from using hand tools is better
for health. Well, anybody who thinks you don't get a workout when
using power tools to put up a winter's supply of firewood clearly has
never actually done the task.
+1 on all counts.
If God had given us chainsaws we would never have invented the axe.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not
give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
On 12/27/24 7:34 AM, chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
For many people, it's nothing more than a pissing match over the number >>>> of features that their favourite software package offers. Whether they >>>> actually use those features or not is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, those of us who just want to get the job done ignore all
that and look for a package that does what we want without all that
other stuff getting the way.
Indeed. I was tired of hearing about it decades ago. I've never once
had any need for either.
You're right ... 99% of people never NEED the 'new features'
in the latest releases. Just tend to THINK they do.
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days. GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
If God had given us chainsaws we would never have invented the axe.
He's in YA cycle of building a new PC, which instead of taking hours to
get up & running has already consumed a few weeks...
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon
its popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would
favor the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 11:04:22 -0600, chrisv wrote:
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon
its popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would
favor the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
The primary expenditure of commercial software is to develop
a GUI that can accommodate the stupid -- and I mean STUPID.
I have done paid, work for various "professional" studios and
those people are STUPID. STUPID! They are have little knowledge
of image processing and they don't need it because their equally
STUPID customers won't notice. What we have is a pathetic case
of stupidity nullifying other stupidity -- and the same applies
to other ares of software.
Both the GIMP and Photoshop (and all other such software) are
merely GUI wrappers around standard image processing techniques.
How the fuck can they be different? They can't.
Except perhaps in the GUI. Photoshop, as all commercial software,
caters to the stupid. The GIMP not so much.
But, ever since the "Goat Invasion," i.e. the incorporation by the
GIMP of the GEGL and BABL libraries, the GIMP now offers high
bit image capabilities, up to 64-bit floating point, that
Photoshop cannot match (at least since the last time I used that
junk Photoshop).
The conclusion is that anyone who elevates Photoshop above the
GIMP is an ignoramus idiot. Only the GUIs differ and in the
ultimate sense the GUI is totally irrelevant.
I frankly don't have an opinion, because I've tried Photoshop, wasn't especially impressed, wouldn't have renewed the license another year,
even if I were running Winblows, which I'm not. GIMP is simply a
great alternative, available on Linux, it doesn't have to be perfect,
it is part of how one is freed from M$.
The conclusion is that anyone who elevates Photoshop above the
GIMP is an ignoramus idiot. Only the GUIs differ and in the
ultimate sense the GUI is totally irrelevant.
Ive never used photoshop but Gimps UI is AFAIAC utter shit.
I only know about 3 commands and I had to look every one of them up
Lunduke did a good job of highlighting how bad Firefox has become and I
have to admit that I am currently using Firefox begrudgingly. It's been
my favourite since the original version came out, but I lost interest in making it my default once I heard what they did to Brendan Eich.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 13:33:42 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I think Inkscape is better for SVG. Even a big Windows .NET
programmer type at work would use it to create his icons and logos.
Probably. What I was doing wasn't very complicated, mostly changing
fill colors to display incidents on a map by type.
I remember Visual Studio having some sort of editor so you could create
icons. I knew then life was going to get a lot more complicated. I
never could create an icon that looked like anything.
That's what googling for images is for :-)
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 08:33:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Lunduke did a good job of highlighting how bad Firefox has become and I
have to admit that I am currently using Firefox begrudgingly. It's been
my favourite since the original version came out, but I lost interest in
making it my default once I heard what they did to Brendan Eich.
Eich's Brave browser is my default. It was rough around the edges for the first couple of years but has come along nicely.
Both the GIMP and Photoshop (and all other such software) are merely GUI wrappers around standard image processing techniques. How the fuck can
they be different? They can't.
Except perhaps in the GUI. Photoshop, as all commercial software,
caters to the stupid. The GIMP not so much.
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute,
by making others aware of it, you contribute. I actually like
projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation and
firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
Ive never used photoshop but Gimps UI is AFAIAC utter shit.
On 2024-12-28 14:48, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 08:33:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Lunduke did a good job of highlighting how bad Firefox has become and
I have to admit that I am currently using Firefox begrudgingly. It's
been my favourite since the original version came out, but I lost
interest in making it my default once I heard what they did to Brendan
Eich.
Eich's Brave browser is my default. It was rough around the edges for
the first couple of years but has come along nicely.
I wanted it to be my default too but I can't use a browser that
automatically turns on the dGPU when I'm running on the battery.
On 28/12/2024 17:21, Farley Flud wrote:
The conclusion is that anyone who elevates Photoshop above the
GIMP is an ignoramus idiot. Only the GUIs differ and in the
ultimate sense the GUI is totally irrelevant.
Ive never used photoshop but Gimps UI is AFAIAC utter shit.
I only know about 3 commands and I had to look every one of them up
If I am in a hurry I use Corel photopaint
In comp.os.linux.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute,
They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction that
the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has to go, and they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux is developed to
work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation gets some funding
from the computer hardware companies (is this info public?), or at
least many code contributions from Intel and the like.
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly >>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
In comp.os.linux.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute,
This is something I wonder a lot about actually. On Windows free
software developers can see download stats from their website.
Linux software is usually installed from distro packages though, so
the author only sees a single download from the package's
maintainer. Sometimes you see a project on Sourceforge that's had a relatively recent update but the monthly download stats for the
main release file are near single digits. I feel like downloading
it more times myself just to make the author think they didn't do
all that work (of documenting and publishing the software, even if
they're developing it mainly for their own use) for next to nobody.
by making others aware of it, you contribute. I actually like
projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation and
firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction
that the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has
to go, and they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux
is developed to work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation
gets some funding from the computer hardware companies (is this
info public?), or at least many code contributions from Intel and
the like.
So that development is really about making existing open-source
projects fit the aspirations of businesses, and one can see then
how the culture of those open-source organisations might start to
reflect that more than their original goals. Still, it's much
better than having to buy software off those companies directly, or
using more closed-source drivers in Linux.
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
On 12/28/24 2:07 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I wish software designers woul group features in a sort of top down
On 28/12/2024 17:21, Farley Flud wrote:
The conclusion is that anyone who elevates Photoshop above the
GIMP is an ignoramus idiot. Only the GUIs differ and in the
ultimate sense the GUI is totally irrelevant.
Ive never used photoshop but Gimps UI is AFAIAC utter shit.
I only know about 3 commands and I had to look every one of them up
If I am in a hurry I use Corel photopaint
Corel was/is good too !
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes. However the neat-o features ARE
there and 99% of the time you'll never need them.
not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction that
the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has to go, and
they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers
determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux is developed to
work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation gets some funding
from the computer hardware companies (is this info public?), or at
least many code contributions from Intel and the like.
The end of [1] has a high-level breakdown of funding sources. [2] lists
its corporate members and [3] has the fee structure (towards the end).
[1] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/resources/publications/linux-foundation-annual-report-2024
[2] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members
[3] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/hubfs/LF%20Brand%20Assets/lf_member_benefits_101424a.pdf
Intel, AMD, Arm, Microsoft, Google, IBM etc contribute code; you can
find them in the kernel’s git history.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy doing that.
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly >>>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for a decade or two.
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 07:25:04 -0500, -hh wrote:
He's in YA cycle of building a new PC, which instead of taking hours to
get up & running has already consumed a few weeks...
FYFI, my new Xeon W-1270P 8-core machine with 32G ECC memory
was originally purchased as a replacement for my Core i7
which I believed was failing.
However, after cleaning the heavy dust accumulation from the
heat sink fan I have not had a recurrence of the symptoms that
I had at first attributed to a failing MB.
Now I am stuck with a new machine that I don't really need
and I am in no fucking hurry to get it up and running.
But I will have to eventually trash the Core i7 machine even
though a highly tuned GNU/Linux installation makes it operate
as good or better than the latest gens.
I have Winblows 10/11 installed on the cheapest junk hardware
that I possess because that's all that the junk OS deserves.
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol.
And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
Word processing and spreadsheets are examples of highly mature
technologies. FOSS excels in these areas.
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon
its popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would
favor the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
On 12/28/24 6:05 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute,
Well ... "using" doesn't buy much coffee ....
The prob is the usual WAYS of donating - they do not
seem remotely secure these days. No, I'm not gonna
put my card number into some, MAYbe legit, website.
A mail address you can send a money-order or something
to would feel much better.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
Translation: not competent enough to get Linux running on even
bare iron in less than a week.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 11:14:38 -0500, -hh wrote:
Translation: not competent enough to get Linux running on even
bare iron in less than a week.
I hate to burst your bumptious bubble but I've already gotten
it running via the Gentoo Live USB. How else could I have gathered
the relevant CPU parameters?
Indeed, I could have installed a complete distro but I choose
not to go that simpleton route.
Distros are an anathema. Every GNU/Linux machine requires total customization.
I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVs
and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
only customized GNU/Linux.
On 12/28/24 10:12 AM, Farley Flud wrote:Who bit your bum today?
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 07:25:04 -0500, -hh wrote:
He's in YA cycle of building a new PC, which instead of taking hours to
get up & running has already consumed a few weeks...
FYFI, my new Xeon W-1270P 8-core machine with 32G ECC memory
was originally purchased as a replacement for my Core i7
which I believed was failing.
However, after cleaning the heavy dust accumulation from the
heat sink fan I have not had a recurrence of the symptoms that
I had at first attributed to a failing MB.
Translation: self-proclaimed "expert" in everything fails on basic troubleshooting due to housekeeping maintenance failure/laziness.
Now I am stuck with a new machine that I don't really need
and I am in no fucking hurry to get it up and running.
Translation: a fiscal *and* a productivity squandering.
But I will have to eventually trash the Core i7 machine even
though a highly tuned GNU/Linux installation makes it operate
as good or better than the latest gens.
Translation: attempting to save face by noting that all tech eventually becomes obsolete, even if that day for this year is still years away. Meantime, the new PC sits idle.
I have Winblows 10/11 installed on the cheapest junk hardware
that I possess because that's all that the junk OS deserves.
Translation: not competent enough to get Linux running on even
bare iron in less than a week.
#
-hh
I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVs
and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
only customized GNU/Linux.
I wish software designers woul group features in a sort of top down
structurd way starting with the most easily understood and useful at
the top and sub menus for the really obscure.
In a manner of speaking, it doesn't really matter too much for casual
users, for most of the productivity gain is through becoming practiced
with the UI and its underlying workflow design philosophy.
I had a horrific experience with a contractor using {not-MS}office
some years ago ... some glitching with the FOSS spreadsheet not
charting the project's performance data correctly ...
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon its
popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would favor
the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
Which is fine, but then attempts to compare products for assessing
things like value should therefore be deferred to those who actually
have relevant experience with the tools in question.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not
give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
On 2024-12-29 12:57, Farley Flud wrote:
I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVsMy grandfather's 72-year-old tractor is still an important part of our machinery fleet, used almost every day during the growing season. The
and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
only customized GNU/Linux.
manual states: "Use a good, clean, gasoline with an octane rating of at
least 65."
I can't find any of the 65 octane stuff, so I use 87, closest I can get.
With an optional manifold, the manual says the tractor is supposed to be
able to run on something called "low-cost fuel," whatever that is. I
can't find any of that, either.
I *could* buy premium, TOP TIER gas for it, but it would be a complete
waste of money that I don't have, and I might have to de-tune the timing
so it would run the way it should. I don't have the time, or the
inclination, to do that.
As for my Linux installs, Mageia only needs a little customization here
and there to get it the way I like it, so that's what I use. Besides, as
the Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance Team, I really ought to use
the distro pretty much as is if it's to stay usable by the less
experienced users that don't know yet what to change and what to leave
alone.
YMMV.
TJ
not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction that
the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has to go, and
they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers
determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux is developed to
work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation gets some funding
from the computer hardware companies (is this info public?), or at
least many code contributions from Intel and the like.
The end of [1] has a high-level breakdown of funding sources. [2] lists
its corporate members and [3] has the fee structure (towards the end).
[1] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/resources/publications/linux-foundation-annual-report-2024
[2] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members
[3] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/hubfs/LF%20Brand%20Assets/lf_member_benefits_101424a.pdf
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not
give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that
money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute.
I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux
foundation and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts.
Would never dream of contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford to contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is community- based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute their free
time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte. But,
as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team, I
contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible that
they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and
sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the package won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is to catch
that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels are welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions of
new contributors are received with as much respect as those of our "old hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need
translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers, the
list goes on.
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you
wish to contribute to our project.
Remember that, since Adobe moved to the rentware model, it removed any >incentive to actually continue improving the product, since customers pay >exactly the same regardless.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 11:24:13 -0500, -hh wrote:
In a manner of speaking, it doesn't really matter too much for casual
users, for most of the productivity gain is through becoming practiced
with the UI and its underlying workflow design philosophy.
Some things are just badly designed, though.
For example, the Microsoft Office “Ribbon” originated in the days before modern widescreen monitors became popular. But most text documents
continue to be laid out in portrait mode. So you have this mismatch which leads to wasted, unused space on the sides of the screen, while this big “Ribbon” thing on the top reduces the amount of space available to show your document.
This is why the LibreOffice Sidebar is a better design. It leaves more of
the height of the screen available to show the long dimension of your document.
I had a horrific experience with a contractor using {not-MS}office
some years ago ... some glitching with the FOSS spreadsheet not
charting the project's performance data correctly ...
Sure it wasn’t Excel? Microsoft Excel is notorious for leading users into such errors. There are entire websites devoted to collecting instances of such screwups.
GIMP is basically as good as PhotoShop.
Again, I wouldn't know. I've assumed that PS is better, based upon its
popularity and price. I would expect evolving technology would favor
the payware, when it comes to outright performance.
Remember that, since Adobe moved to the rentware model, it removed any incentive to actually continue improving the product, since customers pay exactly the same regardless.
Which is fine, but then attempts to compare products for assessing
things like value should therefore be deferred to those who actually
have relevant experience with the tools in question.
Too often, though, we see supposed experts who have become so invested in their expensive proprietary tools and the companies that make them, that
they refuse to believe that something else could offer just as much power
for much less money.
To use an automotive analogy, its been like someone lambasting BMWs
despite never having even learned how to drive a car, let alone a sporty
one.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 19:17:46 -0500, -hh wrote:
To use an automotive analogy, its been like someone lambasting BMWs
despite never having even learned how to drive a car, let alone a
sporty one.
But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
say no more ...
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
or System76.
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
On 2024-12-29, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
On 12/28/24 6:05 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute,
Well ... "using" doesn't buy much coffee ....
The prob is the usual WAYS of donating - they do not
seem remotely secure these days. No, I'm not gonna
put my card number into some, MAYbe legit, website.
A mail address you can send a money-order or something
to would feel much better.
Huzzah for checks and the like. It can be challenging to find an address to send it to, as I've found out for a project called "Allstar" for HAM radio.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:+1
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a little snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
deal.
On 2024-12-29 04:07, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
They're interesting cases. Google is determining the direction that
the Web evolves, thus the direction Firefox development has to go, and
they're the main ones paying Mozilla (for now). Hardware manufacturers
determine how computers evolve, and thus how Linux is developed to
work well on them, and maybe the Linux Foundation gets some funding
from the computer hardware companies (is this info public?), or at
least many code contributions from Intel and the like.
The end of [1] has a high-level breakdown of funding sources. [2] lists
its corporate members and [3] has the fee structure (towards the end).
[1]
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/resources/publications/linux-foundation-annual-report-2024
[2] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members
[3]
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/hubfs/LF%20Brand%20Assets/lf_member_benefits_101424a.pdf
Intel, AMD, Arm, Microsoft, Google, IBM etc contribute code; you can
find them in the kernel’s git history.
They contribute code but don't contribute much of the money toward Linux projects. Bryan Lunduke did a good job a few weeks ago of demonstrating how the Linux Foundation does very little to help Linux.
On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly >>>>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol. >>>>>>And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is Abiword. >> Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more than enough
for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for a decade or two.
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write, AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
On 2024-12-28, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I
actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
This grabs my attention...as essentially a 'bystander' I've been totally unaware of these types of sentiments.
Can someone give (or point me to) a thumbnail of why someone might have
these opinions?
Just curious....
Pureheart in Aptos
On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to photoshop, >> moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they make
changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy doing that.
My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to install it on his new machine though.
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I
actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation and >> firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never dream of >> contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford to contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is community-based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute their free time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte. But, as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team, I contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible that they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the package won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is to catch that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels are welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions of new contributors are received with as much respect as those of our "old hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers, the list goes on.
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you wish to contribute to our project.
TJ
On 2024-12-29 12:57, Farley Flud wrote:
I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVsMy grandfather's 72-year-old tractor is still an important part of our machinery fleet, used almost every day during the growing season. The manual states: "Use a good, clean, gasoline with an octane rating of at least 65."
and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
only customized GNU/Linux.
I can't find any of the 65 octane stuff, so I use 87, closest I can get. With an optional manifold, the manual says the tractor is supposed to be able to run on something called "low-cost fuel," whatever that is. I can't find any of that, either.
I *could* buy premium, TOP TIER gas for it, but it would be a complete waste of money that I don't have, and I might have to de-tune the timing so it would run the way it should. I don't have the time, or the inclination, to do that.
As for my Linux installs, Mageia only needs a little customization here and there to get it the way I like it, so that's what I use. Besides, as the Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance Team, I really ought to use the distro pretty much as is if it's to stay usable by the less experienced users that don't know yet what to change and what to leave alone.
YMMV.
TJ
A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)
On 2024-12-29 16:00, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-29 12:57, Farley Flud wrote:
I scoff at these idiots who purchase exorbitant pickup trucks/SUVsMy grandfather's 72-year-old tractor is still an important part of our
and then fill them up with sub-grade, discount gasoline.
Every vehicle deserves only TOP TIER gas, and every computer deserves
only customized GNU/Linux.
machinery fleet, used almost every day during the growing season. The
manual states: "Use a good, clean, gasoline with an octane rating of at
least 65."
I can't find any of the 65 octane stuff, so I use 87, closest I can get.
With an optional manifold, the manual says the tractor is supposed to be
able to run on something called "low-cost fuel," whatever that is. I can't >> find any of that, either.
I *could* buy premium, TOP TIER gas for it, but it would be a complete
waste of money that I don't have, and I might have to de-tune the timing so >> it would run the way it should. I don't have the time, or the inclination, >> to do that.
As for my Linux installs, Mageia only needs a little customization here and >> there to get it the way I like it, so that's what I use. Besides, as the
Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance Team, I really ought to use the
distro pretty much as is if it's to stay usable by the less experienced
users that don't know yet what to change and what to leave alone.
YMMV.
TJ
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it, I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework or System76.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
say no more ...
It sometimes spills over to BMW riders when the same demographic purchases >bikes. I wouldn't mind an old R75/5 but I've got too many bikes already.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:53:51 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
I had not heard of it. The genealogy is interesting. I used Mandrake years ago and Liked it. It begat Mandriva which seems to have begotten Mageia.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a little snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
deal.
rbowman wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need
say no more ...
I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
biased because I one owned one.
It sometimes spills over to BMW riders when the same demographic purchases >> bikes. I wouldn't mind an old R75/5 but I've got too many bikes already.
Hmm... While I concede that some BMW car owners buy them for "the
wrong reasons" (i.e. prestige), I think that bike riders are more
practical and grounded.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seemAnd, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive
greatly
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol. >>>>>>>
product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight
use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for
a decade or two.
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
-hh wrote:
A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)
Unlike -highhorse's lying "point".
"Haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop is only his snittish "interpretation" of the advocates' common-sense value arguments.
In this thread I admitted that I've never used Photoshop. But can he
quote me being critical of its performance or quality? No, he can't.
It's snits like -highhorse who has always attacked unfairly. Not the advocates. He will never escape this reality, no matter how much he
try to twists it.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for
a decade or two.
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they
make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy
doing that.
My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on
it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a
way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the
way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to
install it on his new machine though.
That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him,
to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)
On 2024-12-30 08:08, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
A fair & balanced point (idiocy snipped)
Unlike -highhorse's lying "point".
"Haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop is only his snittish
"interpretation" of the advocates' common-sense value arguments.
In this thread I admitted that I've never used Photoshop. But can he
quote me being critical of its performance or quality? No, he can't.
Yeah, everyone who wants to manipulate images needs to pay $600 for
Photoshop and then use only a 16th of its functionality. <rolls eyes>
It's a pretty lame troll, by the way.
It's snits like -highhorse who has always attacked unfairly. Not the
advocates. He will never escape this reality, no matter how much he
try to twists it.
As far as I know, Huntzinger criticizes from the perspective of a Mac
user. To him, anything that doesn't closely follow the Apple approach is simply intolerable.
I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
On 30/12/2024 13:12, chrisv wrote:
rbowman wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need >>>> say no more ...
I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
biased because I one owned one.
It used to be Volvos. Cars with apparently no windows or mirrors, just a narrow view out of the front
BMW was briefly a drug dealers car, but thereal cunts today drive an Audi...
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a hallucinogenic plant isn't good.
On 2024-12-30 06:53, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
I just checked and noticed that it saves in PDF, ODT and DOCX in
addition to its own format. However, when I opened a few ODT documents
to see how it would handle them, I notice that it failed with the one
which included a simple table. I notice that it can produce its own, but
I can't fathom why it didn't display it properly here.
On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from Framework >>> or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the
Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big
deal.
Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010 should
be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their use of the
web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast as a machine
from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others still used a 386.
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
Disclaimer: Not all BMW (and Audi) drivers are assholes. I know
several quite nice BMW owners. But statistically...
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW -
(idiocy snipped)
(garbage snipped)
On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably >>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it, >>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use >>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the >>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big >>> deal.
Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
still used a 386.
Memory can be an issue, though.
I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB was
not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was maxed.
This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with a bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power is fine, and is over 10 year old.
lying asshole -hh wrote:
(garbage snipped)
Gosh, not one quote of advocate "haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop. Only quotes of advocates making reasonable points about
value, and one example of an advocate (sdb) who arbitrarity assigned a
one cent cost to GIMP. Why does -highhorse think that his snittish
attack is valid because of one brain-fart? Why does -highhorse feel
the need to lie about me "trying to forget" that brain-fart, which I called-out at the time? You don't see trolls calling each other out,
when they say something stupid.
Why doesn't -highhorse quote me saying that Photoshop is a powerful
tool for professionals and serious amateurs?
What an asshole.
Meanwhile, I have quotes that directly show -highhorse *lying* to
attack, like his snittish assertion that any advocate would "globally
reject" Photoshop "for all possible consumers".
Around here, Audi has caught up with BMW in terms of percentage driven
by assholes. A mechanic friend believes that assholes are attracted to
any German car. The VW Golf and Jetta appear to be favoured by young
urban racers.
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm
not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in
my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla
is all I would need.
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
On 2024-12-30 17:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine
inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my >>>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with
it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not >>>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in
use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than
the
Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big >>>> deal.
Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
still used a 386.
Memory can be an issue, though.
I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB
was not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was
maxed.
I found this to be an issue even with the new MacBook Air M1. Regardless
of what Apple claims, 8GB on Apple silicon is not like 16GB on a PC. 8GB
was great in 2010, not in 2021.
This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with
a bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
memory leaks?
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power
is fine, and is over 10 year old.
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the 8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the firmware
is closed. What was the card you were using?
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they
make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy
doing that.
My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on
it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a
way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the
way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to
install it on his new machine though.
That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him,
to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a hallucinogenic plant isn't good.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm
not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in
my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla
is all I would need.
A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works
for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.
On 2024-12-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your
Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.
While the preachers sit and get stoned in their Buicks
Jesus Christ rolls by in his Ford.
-- Michael Murphey
I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the 8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the firmware
is closed. What was the card you were using?
I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
memory leaks?
No, but they don't seem to have a proper memory cleaning strategy.
Probably fragmentation.
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power
is fine, and is over 10 year old.
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the
8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the
firmware is closed. What was the card you were using?
MSI N9500GT-MS1G-OC, says the cardbox.
On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine inevitably >>>> kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my
hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten with it, >>>> I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not
planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is in use >>> so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower than the >>> Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a big >>> deal.
Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference as
people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and others
still used a 386.
Memory can be an issue, though.
I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB was
not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard was maxed.
This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox with a bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power is fine, and is over 10 year old.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.
On 12/30/24 9:01 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm >>> not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in >>> my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla >>> is all I would need.
A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works
for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the
excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.
YARIS ???
A Corolla is probably BEST car to own
these days. Reliable, not TOO big, not
TOO complicated. Turn the key and GO.
When/if I need a 'new' car - it'll be a
Corolla. Won't be brand new though -
'tested' instead :-)
On 2024-12-30 06:53, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem greatly >>>>>>>>> distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol. >>>>>>>>And, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive >>>>>>>> product. What a "tragedy".
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight >>>>>> use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its
open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was more
than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business use for a >>>> decade or two.
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to write,
AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little program.
Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
I just checked and noticed that it saves in PDF, ODT and DOCX in addition to its own format. However, when I opened a few ODT documents to see how it would handle them, I notice that it failed with the one which included a simple table. I notice that it can produce its own, but I can't fathom why it didn't display it properly here.
On 2024-12-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 30/12/2024 13:12, chrisv wrote:
rbowman wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But we all have experience of other BMW drivers on the road ... I need >>>>> say no more ...
I've never noticed anything amiss with BMW drivers. No, I am not
biased because I one owned one.
It used to be Volvos. Cars with apparently no windows or mirrors, just a
narrow view out of the front
BMW was briefly a drug dealers car, but thereal cunts today drive an Audi...
Around here, Audi has caught up with BMW in terms of percentage
driven by assholes. A mechanic friend believes that assholes
are attracted to any German car. The VW Golf and Jetta appear
to be favoured by young urban racers.
I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
Disclaimer: Not all BMW (and Audi) drivers are assholes. I know
several quite nice BMW owners. But statistically...
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making >exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
BMWs are, like Jaguars, designed to be fast and go round corners as well. >Mercedes are fast, but don't go round corners. Which is why they do well
in the USA. There are no real corners.
Audis are designed to go round corners blisteringly fast, but their
drivers are not...
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how?
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going
to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably,
they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm
not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in
my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla
is all I would need.
A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works
for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.
HP EliteDesk 800 G2 SFF Quad Core i5-6500 is what it says it is
Its about 5 years old now. There are tons of this class of machine going
for peanuts everywhere. They were sold to small businesses as office >machines. In fact its the cheapest way to buy that processor!
On 12/30/24 6:54 AM, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint until >>> he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on it. If
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73. No
problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if they make >>>> changes or move buttons around. But all software makers enjoy doing that. >>>
anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a way to
implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the way that it >>> imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother to install it on >>> his new machine though.
That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for him, to >> at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)
Mint ain't perfect - but it's a huge leap over M$.
Let's HOPE the poster WILL install Mint on his dad's machine
and arrange it to boot first.
On 31/12/2024 02:09, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:BMWs are, like Jaguars, designed to be fast and go round corners as well. Mercedes are fast, but don't go round corners. Which is why they do well in the USA. There are no real corners.
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your
Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.
Audis are designed to go round corners blisteringly fast, but their drivers are not...
On 31/12/2024 08:33, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 12/30/24 9:01 PM, rbowman wrote:her are more than one version. The one I drove around 20 years ago had a dashboard like a disco and handled like a pig on tranquillizers. It was loud and unsafe.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:55:07 -0500, Joel wrote:
You have to ask what kind of person needs a BMW - if they aren't going >>>> to speed, why are they buying it? Is it just for status? Probably, >>>> they wish to "own the road", i.e. create a hazard for normal people. I'm >>>> not one to talk, when I was young I drove like a psycho at times, but in >>>> my middle age I am a very patient and calm driver, methodical. A Corolla >>>> is all I would need.
A Corolla is sort of big. I don't need 4 doors so a Yaris hatchback works >>> for me. It will do better than 100 if I'm feeling psychotic although the >>> excellent fuel economy starts to go downhill at 80.
YARIS ???
A Corolla is probably BEST car to ownYes. I dint like them, because they are as dull as ditchwater. I don't drive a lot so when I do I want it to be a bit nice,
these days. Reliable, not TOO big, not
TOO complicated. Turn the key and GO.
When/if I need a 'new' car - it'll be a
Corolla. Won't be brand new though -
'tested' instead :-)
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if your Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were either
cheap or living above your means.
On 12/30/24 6:54 AM, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:44, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Farley Flud wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:47:29 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I agree that the GIMPs GUI can be hard to navigate
and use sometimes.
I cannot understand this at all.
An image is opened. The user then decides what to do with the
image. He then uses the menu to invoke the appropriate action.
What could be simpler?
As with most GUIs, there are more than one way to invoke actions.
Either use the menu or the many toolboxes.
Of course, if a user does not understand the rudiments of image
processing then he will be confused and frustrated by any GUI.
Also don't underestimate the power of habit. If you are used to
photoshop, moving to something else will be painful.
But if you have no prior experience, it will be different.
My father has been a happy gimp user for many years, and he is 73.
No problem with the gui. The only thing he is sensitive to is if
they make changes or move buttons around. But all software makers
enjoy doing that.
My father is going to turn 80 last year and happily used Linux Mint
until he deided to buy himself a new mini desktop with Windows 10 on
it. If anything, he preferred Mint and asked me whether there was a
way to implement some of its functionality onto the desktop like the
way that it imports photos and videos from a phone. I didn't bother
to install it on his new machine though.
That's a shame. If I would be there I would gladly install mint for
him, to at least have one less windows machine in the world. ;)
Mint ain't perfect - but it's a huge leap over M$.
Let's HOPE the poster WILL install Mint on his dad's machine
and arrange it to boot first.
On 2024-12-31 00:18, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-30 17:01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-12-30 14:40, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 23:28, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 17:06:31 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If I can use this laptop with Fedora on it until the machine
inevitably
kicks the bucket, I'll be happy. I don't like the idea of changing my >>>>>> hardware every three, four or even five years. If I can go ten
with it,
I'll be satisfied to retire it in favour of something new from
Framework
or System76.
My Fedora box is a ten year old Dell with a 4th gen i5. I did get a
little
snappier processor on eBay and added 8 GB or RAM and a SSD but I'm not >>>>> planning an upgrade. The only limitation is the only PCIe slot is
in use
so the SSD is SATA rather than NVMe so it boots a little slower
than the
Ryzen 7 Ubuntu box. Considering it's been up 41 days that is not a >>>>> big
deal.
Nowadays, speed is only an issue if you're playing games or encoding
videos. Otherwise, the machines we were running even around 2010
should be more than sufficient for the majority of people and their
use of the web, social media and e-mail. Sure, it won't load as fast
as a machine from this decade, but it's not the kind of difference
as people suffered through when some were running Pentiums and
others still used a 386.
Memory can be an issue, though.
I had to change to another machine for two reasons. One, that 8 GiB
was not enough, machine was swapping actively, and the motherboard
was maxed.
I found this to be an issue even with the new MacBook Air M1.
Regardless of what Apple claims, 8GB on Apple silicon is not like 16GB
on a PC. 8GB was great in 2010, not in 2021.
This is because software became memory hogs. Thunderbird, Firefox
with a bunch of windows, and LO. After a week, they eat memory.
I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
memory leaks?
No, but they don't seem to have a proper memory cleaning strategy.
Probably fragmentation.
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its power
is fine, and is over 10 year old.
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the
8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the
firmware is closed. What was the card you were using?
MSI N9500GT-MS1G-OC, says the cardbox.
On 30/12/2024 23:18, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the
8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the
firmware is closed. What was the card you were using?
Ive never had a problem getting correct Nvidia drivers for the gfx cards.
On 31/12/2024 11:54, chrisv wrote:
Charlie Gibbs wrote:Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Hmm... While I concede that some BMW car owners buy them for "the
wrong reasons" (i.e. prestige), I think that bike riders are more
practical and grounded.
Depends on the milieu - plenty of menopausal men cranking up their
beemer bikes to try and impress someone.
On 30/12/2024 20:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
It is in fact worse than that...
http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/bmw-drive-like-an- asshole-congratulations-on-your-purchase-now-you-have-to-watch-our- mandatory-instructional-video.jpg
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-30 06:53, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 06:29, D wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Farley Flud wrote:
The Photoshop lackeys are always the instigators. They seem >>>>>>>>>> greatlyAnd, golly gee, the free product isn't as good as the expensive >>>>>>>>> product. What a "tragedy".
distressed by the fact that some folks do not worship their idol. >>>>>>>>>
LibreOffice beats the crap out of anything M$ offers
these days.
I wouldn't know. Both are more than sufficient for my lightweight >>>>>>> use. Obviously I choose to use the cheaper one.
I consider both way too bloated, complicated, and slow so choose
other simpler programs like Ted for word processing. In the same
way I haven't touched PhotoShop or GIMP in a very long time since
mtPaint does everything I want. The fact that neither has very
active development is a plus more than anything - when I do want
to try something more unusual it still works the same as it did
years ago when I tried it last, whereas commercial software or its >>>>>> open-source copies will have changed everything just for the sake
of keeping busy and looking new.
Another option to libreoffice, for the ones who do not like it is
Abiword. Tried it briefly, it worked, but libreoffice always was
more than enough for my needs, so I've stayed with it for business
use for a decade or two.
If you're never sharing documents with others and only need to
write, AbiWord would definitely be my go-to. I love that little
program.
Ahh... so it doesn't save in easily exportable file formats?
I just checked and noticed that it saves in PDF, ODT and DOCX in
addition to its own format. However, when I opened a few ODT documents
to see how it would handle them, I notice that it failed with the one
which included a simple table. I notice that it can produce its own,
but I can't fathom why it didn't display it properly here.
Odt and docx are not trivial file formats. You must remember that
Microsoft has tried its best to make docx impenetrable to outsiders. Odt
I think also has suffered from trying to be compatible with Ms
excrement. As a small project I am not surprised that it might have a
few bugs here and there when opening those formats.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
HP EliteDesk 800 G2 SFF Quad Core i5-6500 is what it says it is
Ha! I recently bought two of these for work. Only $150 each with 16G
RAM and an SSD and legal Win10 Pro. Really a steal, if you don't need
the Win11 HW requirements.
Its about 5 years old now. There are tons of this class of machine going
for peanuts everywhere. They were sold to small businesses as office
machines. In fact its the cheapest way to buy that processor!
lying asshole -hh wrote:
(garbage snipped)
Gosh, not one quote of advocate "haters" being "loudly critical" of Photoshop.
Only quotes of advocates making reasonable points about> value, ...
and one example of an advocate (sdb) who arbitrarity assigned a
one cent cost to GIMP. Why does -highhorse think that his snittish
attack is valid because of one brain-fart? Why does -highhorse feel
the need to lie about me "trying to forget" that brain-fart, which I called-out at the time? You don't see trolls calling each other out,
when they say something stupid.
Why doesn't -highhorse quote me saying that Photoshop is a powerful
tool for professionals and serious amateurs?
What an asshole.
Meanwhile, I have quotes that directly show -highhorse *lying* to
attack, like his snittish assertion that any advocate would "globally
reject" Photoshop "for all possible consumers".
[chrisv butthurt snipped]
What I like about both GIMP and Krita is that I can install them with
one command and have full access to their features the moment they are installed.
With Photoshop, I imagine that I have to create an account,
put in my credit card information, download the software, enter my
account information to finally be able to use it.
With that said, I ask this question: is anyone else fed up of creating accounts to download software?
Is anyone else fed up of navigating to
specific sites to download those programs and carefully check that
they're not downloading a malware-infested version of the program?
I'm sure that GIMP and Krita lack a few features, but you can use them anonymously all the while not being charged a cent to use either. You
can also acquire them within seconds, depending on the speed of your
Internet connection.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
HP EliteDesk 800 G2 SFF Quad Core i5-6500 is what it says it is
Ha! I recently bought two of these for work. Only $150 each with 16G
RAM and an SSD and legal Win10 Pro. Really a steal, if you don't need
the Win11 HW requirements.
On 31/12/2024 11:54, chrisv wrote:
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/12/2024 11:54, chrisv wrote:
Charlie Gibbs wrote:Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
I'm not one of them.
I too had to increase from 8GB mostly because massive loads of shit
written in python are memory gobblers.
On 31/12/2024 02:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Firefox itself doesn't have memory leaks, but its perfectly possible to
I imagine that you never closed those programs. Do they have known
memory leaks?
No, but they don't seem to have a proper memory cleaning strategy.
Probably fragmentation.
write crap javaScript that does.
I periodically close my windows and start again.
There is a December 2024 release of drivers for this card.
The other reason is that Nvidia had stopped supporting my card, and
nouveau was not up to the task. I changed to AMD video.
The older machine I used for a time for guests. Works fine, its
power is fine, and is over 10 year old.
As far as I know, Nouveau has full support for NVIDIA GPUs into the
8xx range. Anything after that doesn't get full support because the
firmware is closed. What was the card you were using?
MSI N9500GT-MS1G-OC, says the cardbox.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-in/drivers/details/237926/
Driver Version: 550.142
Release Date: Tue Dec 17, 2024
Operating System: Linux 64-bit
Language: English (India)
File Size: 307.3 MB
rbowman wrote:
chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how?
Better handling, or betterride/handling compromise, or better
acceleration and braking. Nicer interior.
I'm not saying they always succeed, but these are the ideas. There's a reason why they cost more. It's not just "spend more money and you get
this badge".
On 2024-12-30 21:09, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:26:02 -0600, chrisv wrote:
It's nothing to do with wanting to "own the road". It is probably not
"just for status". Many just want a better vehicle to drive. BMW's
are, generally, better vehicles to drive.
Better how? I'm not hating on BMWs in particular but 'better' is a
nebulous concept as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it's cynicism from the
days when Cadillacs were better than Buicks that were better than
Oldsmobiles that were better than Pontiacs that were better than
Chevrolets even thought it was the same damn platform. Of course if
your Buick only had three faux portholes the neighbors knew you were
either cheap or living above your means.
Each one of those American cars was better than the other but they were
all shit.
I had a Yaris (the original bottle-nosed one), 5-speed manual, two-door,
no power windows. It could zip around an off-ramp!
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hmm... While I concede that some BMW car owners buy them for "the
wrong reasons" (i.e. prestige), I think that bike riders are more
practical and grounded.
Depends on the milieu - plenty of menopausal men cranking up their
beemer bikes to try and impress someone.
Funny, I've not noticed that.
Harleys, on the other hand...
Audis are designed to go round corners blisteringly fast, but their
drivers are not...
A Corolla is probably BEST car to own these days. Reliable, not TOO
big, not TOO complicated. Turn the key and GO.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
BMWs are, like Jaguars, designed to be fast and go round corners as
well.
Mercedes are fast, but don't go round corners. Which is why they do well
in the USA. There are no real corners.
Audis are designed to go round corners blisteringly fast, but their
drivers are not...
All utter nonsense.
Have you tried one of these?
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive
BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive
lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Firefox itself doesn't have memory leaks, but its perfectly possible to
write crap javaScript that does.
I think in northern europe and in the north east, BMW is still the king
of asshole cars. I had a BMW when young. I do not know what other
thought of my driving, but I've never been a car person and I do not
enjoy driving. My wife drives me most of the time. This is luxury! =D
On 30/12/2024 20:49, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I try to spread the rumour that before you are allowed to purchase
a BMW, you must sign a letter of undertaking in which you promise
to drive like an asshole at any opportunity.
It is in fact worse than that...
http://vps.templar.co.uk/Cartoons%20and%20Politics/bmw-drive-like-an-asshole-congratulations-on-your-purchase-now-you-have-to-watch-our-mandatory-instructional-video.jpg
I wouldn't dual-boot if my dad insisted on Linux. There would be no
reason to hold onto Windows since he doesn't play games and doesn't use
any application exclusive to Windows.
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
or for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who
drive BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on
the driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
drive lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making >>exasperated hand gestures at those of us who don't.
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at the
specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first. I once
heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the specs. He said
you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who revese-engineered it knew that already.
On 2024-12-31, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
I would bet that it is AbiWord that is the issue, not any kind of bug
with ODT. If AbiWord couldn't handle DOCX though, I would blame the
format since it is closed despite its name.
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at
the specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first.
I once heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the
specs. He said you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who revese-engineered it knew that already.
On 2024-12-31, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
I wouldn't dual-boot if my dad insisted on Linux. There would be no
reason to hold onto Windows since he doesn't play games and doesn't use
any application exclusive to Windows.
And since Steam runs on Linux, there are even some good games.
Biggest assholes where I live are Tesla owners, Dodge Hemi and Mustang owners.
It used to be Land/Range Rover people but things have changed.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, pH wrote:
On 2024-12-28, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give >>>>> money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I >>> actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation
and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
This grabs my attention...as essentially a 'bystander' I've been totally
unaware of these types of sentiments.
Can someone give (or point me to) a thumbnail of why someone might have
these opinions?
Just curious....
Pureheart in Aptos
Sure... https://lunduke.substack.com/ writes plenty about the corruption
of firefox and the linux foundation.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:49:50 +0100, D wrote:
I think in northern europe and in the north east, BMW is still the king
of asshole cars. I had a BMW when young. I do not know what other
thought of my driving, but I've never been a car person and I do not
enjoy driving. My wife drives me most of the time. This is luxury! =D
I think the title here belongs to crew cab (Dodge) Rams.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive
BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive
lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play chicken with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
pounds.
On 2024-12-31, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
I would bet that it is AbiWord that is the issue, not any kind of bug
with ODT. If AbiWord couldn't handle DOCX though, I would blame the
format since it is closed despite its name.
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at
the specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first.
I once heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the
specs. He said you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who revese-engineered it knew that already.
On 2024-12-30, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, pH wrote:
On 2024-12-28, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to >>>>>> the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I >>>> actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation >>>> and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
This grabs my attention...as essentially a 'bystander' I've been totally >>> unaware of these types of sentiments.
Can someone give (or point me to) a thumbnail of why someone might have
these opinions?
Just curious....
Pureheart in Aptos
Sure... https://lunduke.substack.com/ writes plenty about the corruption
of firefox and the linux foundation.
Thank-you for the link...
pH
I rather think you are.Again, I've never noticed any such thing.Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
I'm not one of them.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
Its also challenging to see the transgressions from inside the BMW. /s
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 20:40:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at the
specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first. I once
heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the specs. He said
you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who
revese-engineered it knew that already.
You just to look at what was public in the ISO 29500 so-called spec to see that it was an accumulation of many years of dogs’ breakfasts, piled one
on top of the other.
(idiocy snipped)
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive
BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive
lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making exasperated >>> hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play chicken
with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw it in
time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while.
(snipped, unread)
(snipped, unread)
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent, reasonable people you are.
(snipped, unread)
-hh wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
Its also challenging to see the transgressions from inside the BMW. /s
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
(snipped, unread)
chrisv wrote:
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
Only if one drives on roads.
Plus it doesn't address the question of
how long a former BMW driver remains defensive about their reputation.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
(snipped, unread)
How about you keep your trap shut about things you have no idea about?
chrisv wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
(snipped, unread)
How about you keep your trap shut about things you have no idea about?
(snipped, unread)
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
The -highhorse snit sees an advocate or two admitting that they have
no experience with Photoshop. The snit sees an opportunity to attack.
He claims that advocate "haters" have been unreasonable. They have
been "loudly critical" of a product that they have no experience with.
When challenged, the snit moves the goal posts to advocates talking
about prices and values, which he asserts is being "loudly critical"
of the more-expensive product.
The snit also positively *gloats* about the fact that one advocate,
sdb, made a stupid argument in the course of one such discussion about
value.
But even if one accepts the snittish claim that calling Photoshop
"expensive" or whatever constitutes being "loudly critical" of it, the initial attack was that we were unreasonably critical of something
that we had no experience with, and thus were ignorant of.
But the price has always been known! Being "critical" of the price is
*not* being critical of something we have no experience with and thus
are ignorant of!
So, -highhorse's attack *fails* even if one accepts his snittish claim calling Photoshop "expensive" and comparing value is "loud" "criticism
on cost".
As usual, -highhorse attacked using nothing but idiocy and lies. As
usual, -highhorse failed.
And let's consider sdb's brain-fart of ten (or whatever) years ago.
This is about the best that -highhorse can do, apparently.
Yes, sdb arbitrarily assigned a one cent price to GIMP, to compare relative values. Yes, it was stupid. Notice the absolute *pleasure*
-highhorse gets out of this single example. The guy is a genuine
fscking *asshole*, folks.
And sdb's brain-fart was only that. He wasn't being an asshole. He
wasn't attacking anyone using idiocy and lies.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
(snipped, unread)
How about you keep your trap shut about things you have no idea about?
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
Only if one drives on roads.
Which I do.
Plus it doesn't address the question of
how long a former BMW driver remains defensive about their reputation.
Only a fscking dumbshit would think that being a former BMW driver
would motivate me to defend the reputation of BMW drivers in general.
It's not as if anyone has claimed, or would claim, that all BMW
drivers are bad.
I'm*that* stupid and clueless
(snipped, unread)
On 1/1/25 10:25 AM, chrisv wrote (a butthurt double post)
(snipped, unread)
-hh wrote:
On 1/1/25 10:25 AM, chrisv wrote (a butthurt double post)
(snipped, unread)
Poor -highhorse.
Like all trolling assholes, he must to *lie* to attack, when faced
with our reasonable and correct points.
Who he thinks he's fooling, I have no idea.
[quote]
Unfortunately, the only way that this point actually becomes
"reasonable" is by finally admitting that many/most Linux fanboys are
chronic consummate cheapskates.
[/quote]
(snipped, unread)
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather
not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that
money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you
contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The
linux foundation and firefox are excellent examples of how power
corrupts. Would never dream of contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford
to contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is
community-based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute
their free time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte.
But, as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team,
I contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible
that they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and
sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the
package won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is
to catch that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels
are welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions
of new contributors are received with as much respect as those of our
"old hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need
translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers,
the list goes on.
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you
wish to contribute to our project.
TJ
How are you trending with volunteers over time? Is it growing?
On 2024-12-29 16:54, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather
not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that
money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you
contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The
linux foundation and firefox are excellent examples of how power
corrupts. Would never dream of contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford
to contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is
community- based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who
contribute their free time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte.
But, as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team,
I contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible
that they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and
sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the
package won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is
to catch that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels
are welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions
of new contributors are received with as much respect as those of our
"old hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need
translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers,
the list goes on.
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you
wish to contribute to our project.
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
On 2024-12-29 23:18, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 18:53:51 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
I had not heard of it. The genealogy is interesting. I used Mandrake
years
ago and Liked it. It begat Mandriva which seems to have begotten Mageia.
I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
Similarly, a lot of these communities have been poisoned with an
ideology where merit takes a backseat to sexual preference, race or
gender. I don't want to use the atrocious result of that poison. At
least with Fedora, I know that no matter how ridiculous the community
might be in its pursuit of "diversity," the product does everything it
can to be as professional as possible.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:35:45 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I am a fan of anything that is community driven, but I am also aware
that communities break apart over the most ridiculous of things and
often use that difference of opinion as a basis to fork a project.
The Mandrake to Mandriva transition was in part due to a suit by Hearst
over their Mandrake the Magician comic strip. Naming your distro after a hallucinogenic plant isn't good.
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road. Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
their tempers. They drive around tired.
Thank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
one distro...
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 01:40:33 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
Biggest assholes where I live are Tesla owners, Dodge Hemi and Mustang
owners.
It used to be Land/Range Rover people but things have changed.
When you pul up behind a F-250 with imitation bull testicles dangling from the trailer hitch you have a good idea what you're dealing with.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2024-12-31, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
I would bet that it is AbiWord that is the issue, not any kind of bug
with ODT. If AbiWord couldn't handle DOCX though, I would blame the
format since it is closed despite its name.
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at
the specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first.
I once heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the
specs. He said you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who
revese-engineered it knew that already.
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created to turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to create
a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
-hh wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
Its also challenging to see the transgressions from inside the BMW. /s
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created
to turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to
create a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:49:50 +0100, D wrote:Dodge rams? Had no idea! I've seen one or two, but here they are very
I think in northern europe and in the north east, BMW is still the
king of asshole cars. I had a BMW when young. I do not know what other
thought of my driving, but I've never been a car person and I do not
enjoy driving. My wife drives me most of the time. This is luxury! =D
I think the title here belongs to crew cab (Dodge) Rams.
rare. Do you think I would get many women if I bought a dodge ram in the
US?
Mandrake 8.2 was my introduction to Linux in 2002 ...
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:53:34 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road.
Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
their tempers. They drive around tired.
The US has regulations going back to the '30s that almost guarantee driver fatigue. A Simple description is you can only drive for 10 hours in one period and then you must be off for at least 8 hours. The 10 hours becomes 11, with a mandatory break of at least 1/2 hour, and a 15 minute vehicle inspection. All in all you wind up with a 19 hour day.
LA to Denver is 1000 miles. The company mandated you could log an average speed of 60 mph, another fiction, meaning the first leg was 600 miles,
which put you someplace in Utah. Then you were supposed to presumably
sleep for 8 hours despite it being around 5 PM before you could wake up at
1 AM and continue on.
That was the theory. Personally I would drive straight through, back into
the loading dock in Denver at around 5 PM Sunday, have supper, read a
while, and have a good night's sleep before the crew showed up on Monday
to unload the truck.
Some creativity was needed to produce a log book showing the legal times
for the company's records and any nosy DOT cop. I had my adventure and
went back to programming before they radio-collared trucks.
The Linux community seems to be as close to that sort of culture as
we're likely to get.
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent, reasonable people you are.
On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive or >>>> for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive >>>> BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive >>>> lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making exasperated >>>> hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play chicken >>> with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look out
before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw it in time >> though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while.
Was that recently, or long ago?
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road. Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in their tempers. They drive around tired.
They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and impedes it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to brake and swear softly.
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
Only if one drives on roads.
Which I do.
Plus it doesn't address the question of
how long a former BMW driver remains defensive about their reputation.
Only a fscking dumbshit would think that being a former BMW driver
would motivate me to defend the reputation of BMW drivers in general.
It's not as if anyone has claimed, or would claim, that all BMW
drivers are bad.
On 01/01/2025 16:21, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:No. Only a majority of them
chrisv wrote:
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
Only if one drives on roads.
Which I do.
Plus it doesn't address the question of
how long a former BMW driver remains defensive about their reputation.
Only a fscking dumbshit would think that being a former BMW driver
would motivate me to defend the reputation of BMW drivers in general.
It's not as if anyone has claimed, or would claim, that all BMW
drivers are bad.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
(snipped, unread)
If you want to apologize, you'll need to change the subject so that
I'll see it.
Until then, all I know that you, despite having *no way* to know,
claims that I'm not given to noticing anything around me. Then, when
I told you that I do not fit that description, you called me a liar.
The fact is that I'm hyper aware of what's going on around me, and any asshole who claims otherwise is a liar.
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
On 2024-12-30 07:18, D wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not >>>>>> give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money >>>>>> to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you contribute. I >>>> actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The linux foundation >>>> and firefox are excellent examples of how power corrupts. Would never
dream of contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford to
contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is
community-based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who contribute
their free time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte. But, >>> as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team, I
contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible that
they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and sometimes >>> mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the package won't work >>> on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is to catch that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels are >>> welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the opinions of new >>> contributors are received with as much respect as those of our "old
hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need translators, >>> documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers, the list goes on. >>>
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you wish >>> to contribute to our project.
TJ
How are you trending with volunteers over time? Is it growing?
I wish I could say it is, but that wouldn't be quite true. Several major contributors left us in 2023, for various reasons. Some were health related, some were because Real Life situations had changed, some were because things weren't progressing as fast as they would have liked.
Those sorts of things can happen with any community-supported organization, and it just so happened that several issues came together at roughly the same time. However, others have stepped up, and our situation is better now.
But the need for contributors of all kinds goes on, as it has since we started. I doubt that will ever change.
TJ
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:53:34 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road.
Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
their tempers. They drive around tired.
The US has regulations going back to the '30s that almost guarantee driver fatigue. A Simple description is you can only drive for 10 hours in one period and then you must be off for at least 8 hours. The 10 hours becomes 11, with a mandatory break of at least 1/2 hour, and a 15 minute vehicle inspection. All in all you wind up with a 19 hour day.
LA to Denver is 1000 miles. The company mandated you could log an average speed of 60 mph, another fiction, meaning the first leg was 600 miles,
which put you someplace in Utah. Then you were supposed to presumably
sleep for 8 hours despite it being around 5 PM before you could wake up at
1 AM and continue on.
That was the theory. Personally I would drive straight through, back into
the loading dock in Denver at around 5 PM Sunday, have supper, read a
while, and have a good night's sleep before the crew showed up on Monday
to unload the truck.
Some creativity was needed to produce a log book showing the legal times
for the company's records and any nosy DOT cop. I had my adventure and
went back to programming before they radio-collared trucks.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to
drive or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive >>>>> BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive >>>>> lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play
chicken
with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look
out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw
it in time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while.
Was that recently, or long ago?
Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road.
Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
their tempers. They drive around tired.
Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it is possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows, my
feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the incident, so
no shadow on that man.
They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and
impedes it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to brake
and swear softly.
Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
On 2025-01-01, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2024-12-31, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
I would bet that it is AbiWord that is the issue, not any kind of bug
with ODT. If AbiWord couldn't handle DOCX though, I would blame the
format since it is closed despite its name.
The original .doc format was closed too. You could get a look at
the specs, but you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement first.
I once heard from someone who signed the NDA and looked at the
specs. He said you really didn't want to know what was in there.
It was a real dog's breakfast - but I suppose the people who
revese-engineered it knew that already.
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created to >> turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to create
a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
The Linux community seems to be as close to that sort of culture as
we're likely to get.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:44:58 +0100, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:49:50 +0100, D wrote:Dodge rams? Had no idea! I've seen one or two, but here they are very
I think in northern europe and in the north east, BMW is still the
king of asshole cars. I had a BMW when young. I do not know what other >>>> thought of my driving, but I've never been a car person and I do not
enjoy driving. My wife drives me most of the time. This is luxury! =D
I think the title here belongs to crew cab (Dodge) Rams.
rare. Do you think I would get many women if I bought a dodge ram in the
US?
Hmmm, what's your take on redneck women?
https://www.kpax.com/news/missoula-county/peaceful-demonstrators-come-to- an-agreement-with-armed-group-in-missoula-protests
The second photo captures a couple of local specimens in situ. There are
more photos of the opposition. You might notice the lack of black faces at
a BLM rally but you make do with what you have.
I don't know what the most popular brand is locally, perhaps Ford but a
lot of people drive pickups. They're a little big to fit most parking
spaces and hard to see around when you're in a Yaris with your eyes level with their lug nuts. At least with a bike I can stand on the pegs.
I'll admit I have a semi-retired pickup but it is a '86 F-150 that's
dwarfed by the modern versions.
SUVs are also very prevalent. That was an unintended consequence of EPA meddling. Light trucks had looser mileage requirements than passenger
cars. Put a fancy body on a light truck chassis and , voila, a SUV.
Right now gasoline is relatively inexpensive. During peak times the
vehicle mix changes. Most people also have smaller sedans in the driveway.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:49:09 +0100, D wrote:
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created
to turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to
create a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
I have my doubts, at least in the long term. Success leads to growth which leads to calcification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
That was very popular in the '80s. Consultants would give training
sessions, one of which I had to sit through. Many of the companies thaey
used as examples of excellent corporate culture are no more. Some, like Hewlett Packard, are classics in corporate devolution.
fwiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
The -highhorse snit sees an advocate or two admitting that they have
no experience with Photoshop. The snit sees an opportunity to attack.
He claims that advocate "haters" have been unreasonable. They have
been "loudly critical" of a product that they have no experience with.
When challenged, the snit moves the goal posts to advocates talking
about prices and values, which he asserts is being "loudly critical"
of the more-expensive product.
The snit also positively *gloats* about the fact that one advocate,
sdb, made a stupid argument in the course of one such discussion about
value.
But even if one accepts the snittish claim that calling Photoshop
"expensive" or whatever constitutes being "loudly critical" of it, the initial attack was that we were unreasonably critical of something
that we had no experience with, and thus were ignorant of.
But the price has always been known! Being "critical" of the price is
*not* being critical of something we have no experience with and thus
are ignorant of!
So, -highhorse's attack *fails* even if one accepts his snittish claim calling Photoshop "expensive" and comparing value is "loud" "criticism
on cost".
As usual, -highhorse attacked using nothing but idiocy and lies. As
usual, -highhorse failed.
And let's consider sdb's brain-fart of ten (or whatever) years ago.
This is about the best that -highhorse can do, apparently. Yes, sdb arbitrarily assigned a one cent price to GIMP, to compare relative
values. Yes, it was stupid. Notice the absolute *pleasure*
-highhorse gets out of this single example. The guy is a genuine
fscking *asshole*, folks.
How many *stupid* things have freedom-hating assholes, like
-highhorse, spewed in here? I have hundreds of examples of -highhorse
and many others spewing mind-boggling stupidity.
And sdb's brain-fart was only that. He wasn't being an asshole. He
wasn't attacking anyone using idiocy and lies.
-highhorse attacks people using idiocy and lies. -highhorse has
claimed that advocates are "irrational" and "close minded", because
they "hate" Photoshop.
Do cola advocates really "hate" Photoshop, or did -highhorse attack
using idiocy and lies?
Between what sdb did, and what -highhorse did, which is worse?
On 01/01/2025 15:26, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:I think the asshole round here, is you, chris
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent,
reasonable people you are.
On 2024-12-29 18:53, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-29 16:54, TJ wrote:Thank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
On 2024-12-28 06:12, D wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2024-12-27 18:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is >>>>>>> that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather
not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that
money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
Especially since projects like KDE and LibreOffice really need it.
Note that money is not the only way to contribute. Even by using the
software you contribute, by making others aware of it, you
contribute. I actually like projects that are not super wealthy. The
linux foundation and firefox are excellent examples of how power
corrupts. Would never dream of contributing with money to those two.
Indeed. My discretionary funds are very limited, so I can not afford
to contribute with money. But Mageia, as my distro of choice, is
community- based, meaning it is maintained by volunteers who
contribute their free time to make it as good as we can.
I have no coding skills to speak of, so development isn't my forte.
But, as the current Leader of the Mageia Quality Assurance (QA) Team,
I contribute in other, equally valuable ways.
We are the layer between the developers and the public, tasked with
testing updates before they are released to be as sure as possible
that they won't break Mageia systems. Developers are only human, and
sometimes mistakes creep in - a missing dependency, or maybe the
package won't work on hardware the developer doesn't have. Our job is
to catch that stuff.
We also test the install ISOs before they are released.
We are always looking for new members, and users of all skill levels
are welcome. One of the great things about Mageia is that the
opinions of new contributors are received with as much respect as
those of our "old hands."
But those aren't the only ways to contribute. If something in Mageia
doesn't work for you, please file a bug report. We also need
translators, documentation writers, bug triaging, website designers,
the list goes on.
https://www.mageia.org/en/contribute/ is a good place to start if you
wish to contribute to our project.
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
one distro...
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created to >> turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to create
a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
The Linux community seems to be as close to that sort of culture as
we're likely to get.
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 06:22:23 -0600, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Again, I've never noticed any such thing.
Many drivers are not given to noticing anything around them.
Its also challenging to see the transgressions from inside the BMW. /s
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
It also leads you to believe the motorists that aren't homicidal maniacs
are brain dead zombies :)
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
No. Only a majority of them
It's not as if anyone has claimed, or would claim, that all BMW
drivers are bad.
chrisv wrote:
Being a motorcyclist, like myself, gets you in tune with what other
vehicles are doing.
It also leads you to believe the motorists that aren't homicidal maniacs
are brain dead zombies :)
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 14:46, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-29 18:53, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Thank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for
Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
one distro...
There is also no reason why I would use another.
Fedora is the right choice for GNOME. I need Debian, though, because
it supports Cinnamon and is a flagship product, Mint would simply be
too much of the liberated "desktop" features, but yet its interface
can't be beat - except by using Cinnamon with another distro.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
chrisv wrote:
No. Only a majority of them
It's not as if anyone has claimed, or would claim, that all BMW
drivers are bad.
LOL Your silliness here does not excuse your assholery elsewhere.
Better how?
Better handling, or betterride/handling compromise, or better
acceleration and braking. Nicer interior.
I'm not saying they always succeed, but these are the ideas. There's a
reason why they cost more. It's not just "spend more money and you get
this badge".
Better home entertainment system. That seems to be what the reviewers are >interested in these days.
Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It
had burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not know
what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It was very
early in the morning.
I have this book somewhere. I think it was mostly common sense with
added fluff. Didn't feel like a revelation to me. But I guess the book
was the "agile" of its times.
I have no idea really about the companies I worked for, except the
common household global IT companies, which still exist in various
forms.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:49:09 +0100, D wrote:
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created
to turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to
create a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
I have my doubts, at least in the long term. Success leads to growth which leads to calcification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
That was very popular in the '80s. Consultants would give training
sessions, one of which I had to sit through. Many of the companies thaey
used as examples of excellent corporate culture are no more. Some, like Hewlett Packard, are classics in corporate devolution.
fwiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
Jokes aside, I always thought they all look like Kristi Noem. I can live
with that! =D
The word "excellence" tripped my bullshit detectors the first
time I heard it, and I've seen nothing since to make me change my mind.
Another "mini culture" I keep my eyes on is the sqlite community. In
many respects, anti-Linux, but they are producing powerful software!
Are there other projects you think are of similar power, in terms of use
and quality, as sqlite? Maybe the curl community?
Many of the big touring bikes like Gold Wings have cruise control as do
most big trucks. I've had riders who apparently had theirs set to 65.4
pass me when mine was set at 65, taking forever. I wanted to yell out the >window 'There a 9 tires on your side with 110 psi of air in them. Not all
are in the best of shape. Get your ass in gear and pass!'
Around here, most asshole pickups are black - although occasionally
white - but all of them are immaculate. Not a speck of dirt. They've probably never been off pavement. The same make and model, but with
some dirt and maybe a ding or two, is typically driven by someone who's
using it for work, rather than as a penis extender.
Yes, there are rules here, and ways to go around them, somehow. I
understand there is/was a cardboard disk that registers the truck speed.
Now there is some electronic version with a card with a chip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_tachograph).
I pass big rigs quickly just to minimize getting pelted with rocks. I
spent $1000 to get paint protection film put on the front of my car
before I took delivery. A good investment, to prevent all of the chips
in the paint that would otherwise be there.
I soon discovered that “Discovery Edition” meant it was missing the
third CD with GCC and all the development tools on. So my first foray
into Linux hacking was to figure out how to download and install those missing development packages ...
I will say that it was dangerous enough, before the advent of idiots
looking at their "smart phones" while driving. One of my biggest fears
is being rear-ended by one of the dipshits while sitting at a stop
light.
Fedora is the right choice for GNOME.
On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 01:52:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
The word "excellence" tripped my bullshit detectors the first
time I heard it, and I've seen nothing since to make me change my mind.
Let me compound that with this phrase I came up with:
“epicentres of excellence”.
Does that send your alarms into triple red alert? ;)
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 21:09:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Around here, most asshole pickups are black - although occasionally
white - but all of them are immaculate. Not a speck of dirt. They've
probably never been off pavement. The same make and model, but with
some dirt and maybe a ding or two, is typically driven by someone who's
using it for work, rather than as a penis extender.
Not my usual genre but I laughed my butt off at the scene at the end when
the credits are rolling and Sarge, the Willys Jeep, is running a bootcamp
for 4WD trucks and SUVs that have never been off the pavement.
hank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
one distro...
There is also no reason why I would use another.
wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent,
reasonable people you are.
If you don't read what you comment on, aren't you afraid that you are
missing important parts of the argument? Also, how can you build
spiritual bridges of love between two human beings that way?
On 2025-01-01 23:00, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive or >>>>>> for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who drive >>>>>> BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who drive >>>>>> lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play
chicken
with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look out >>>> before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw it in
time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while.
Was that recently, or long ago?
Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road.
Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
their tempers. They drive around tired.
Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it is
possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows, my
feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the incident, so no
shadow on that man.
Well, anybody can make mistakes :-)
They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and impedes
it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to brake and swear >>> softly.
Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It had burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not know what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It was very early in the morning.
I still do not know what I should had done. Probably pull back and phone 112.
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:20:50 +0100, D wrote:
Jokes aside, I always thought they all look like Kristi Noem. I can live
with that! =D
There are quite a few of that model. She's Norwegian and according to the 2000 census 10.6% of the state claimed Norwegian ancestry, beating the Indians by 3%. fwiw, 27% claimed German ancestry. A friend in the know
told me the majority of the Sons of Norway are Germans. That will teach
them to open membership to non-Norwegians.
While it's changing but if you look around at any local event it could be
any place in northern Europe.
On 2025-01-01, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:49:09 +0100, D wrote:
I'm not surprised. It is fascinating how the company culture is created
to turn out bad software. Makes one wonder if it would be possible to
create a kind of anti-Microsoft company culture that would produce gems?
I have my doubts, at least in the long term. Success leads to growth which >> leads to calcification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
That was very popular in the '80s. Consultants would give training
sessions, one of which I had to sit through. Many of the companies thaey
used as examples of excellent corporate culture are no more. Some, like
Hewlett Packard, are classics in corporate devolution.
fwiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
I doubt it. The word "excellence" tripped my bullshit detectors the first time I heard it, and I've seen nothing since to make me change my mind.
It's been turned into just another management buzzword.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:16:10 +0100, D wrote:
Another "mini culture" I keep my eyes on is the sqlite community. In
many respects, anti-Linux, but they are producing powerful software!
Are there other projects you think are of similar power, in terms of use
and quality, as sqlite? Maybe the curl community?
I like SQLLite and have used it in several projects. It works just as well
in C# .NET with
using Microsoft.Data.Sqlite;
as in C with
#include "sqlite3.h"
allowing both to use the same data. I do like that it's public domain
like most free software was before Stallman. otoh PostgresSQL is more powerful and has a permissive license.
https://opensource.org/license/postgresql
After all, the SQLite developers ask "What would Postgres do?"
There are a couple of other worthwhile projects like Python :)
On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and 'death spiral'
IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old business services division.
No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its original form.
chrisv wrote:
I pass big rigs quickly just to minimize getting pelted with rocks. I
spent $1000 to get paint protection film put on the front of my car
before I took delivery. A good investment, to prevent all of the chips
in the paint that would otherwise be there.
Bras are kooler.
https://www.carcoverworld.com/front-end-covers
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:40, Joel wrote:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 14:46, TJ wrote:
On 2024-12-29 18:53, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Thank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just >>>>> one distro...
I would have liked to try out your distribution before I settled for >>>>>> Fedora. Your approach is pretty neat.
There is also no reason why I would use another.
Fedora is the right choice for GNOME. I need Debian, though, because
it supports Cinnamon and is a flagship product, Mint would simply be
too much of the liberated "desktop" features, but yet its interface
can't be beat - except by using Cinnamon with another distro.
Funny enough, there is a push within the Fedora community to make KDE
not GNOME the main desktop environment for the distribution. It
definitely works well, to say the least. I imagine that GNOME still has
problems or that the community is concerned the financial problems there
are a lot more serious than anyone is willing to admit.
I would be surprised if Fedora made KDE the default and yet that is
the one they offer as an alternative, so one would imagine as you
suggest that if GNOME became defunct somehow, KDE would replace it,
but KDE strikes me as too arbitrary a choice for the default on that
distro, albeit GNOME could be thought to be one too, the problem being
that there just aren't enough DEs that are robust which can be
utilized by everyone. Cinnamon comes close, I like it myself but it's
not *quite* as solid as GNOME, and I presume KDE as well. It doesn't
bother me, as I'm not seeking perfection, but it's a consideration for
the Fedora community nevertheless I'm sure.
On 2025-01-01, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
The -highhorse snit sees an advocate or two admitting that they have
no experience with Photoshop. The snit sees an opportunity to attack.
He claims that advocate "haters" have been unreasonable. They have
been "loudly critical" of a product that they have no experience with.
When challenged, the snit moves the goal posts to advocates talking
about prices and values, which he asserts is being "loudly critical"
of the more-expensive product.
The snit also positively *gloats* about the fact that one advocate,
sdb, made a stupid argument in the course of one such discussion about
value.
But even if one accepts the snittish claim that calling Photoshop
"expensive" or whatever constitutes being "loudly critical" of it, the
initial attack was that we were unreasonably critical of something
that we had no experience with, and thus were ignorant of.
But the price has always been known! Being "critical" of the price is
*not* being critical of something we have no experience with and thus
are ignorant of!
So, -highhorse's attack *fails* even if one accepts his snittish claim
calling Photoshop "expensive" and comparing value is "loud" "criticism
on cost".
As usual, -highhorse attacked using nothing but idiocy and lies. As
usual, -highhorse failed.
And let's consider sdb's brain-fart of ten (or whatever) years ago.
This is about the best that -highhorse can do, apparently. Yes, sdb
arbitrarily assigned a one cent price to GIMP, to compare relative
values. Yes, it was stupid. Notice the absolute *pleasure*
-highhorse gets out of this single example. The guy is a genuine
fscking *asshole*, folks.
How many *stupid* things have freedom-hating assholes, like
-highhorse, spewed in here? I have hundreds of examples of -highhorse
and many others spewing mind-boggling stupidity.
And sdb's brain-fart was only that. He wasn't being an asshole. He
wasn't attacking anyone using idiocy and lies.
-highhorse attacks people using idiocy and lies. -highhorse has
claimed that advocates are "irrational" and "close minded", because
they "hate" Photoshop.
Do cola advocates really "hate" Photoshop, or did -highhorse attack
using idiocy and lies?
Between what sdb did, and what -highhorse did, which is worse?
Well I worked in a print shop where PhotoShop was one of the tools we needed and I've always said that's really where it's needed, i.e., for
professionals (artists, graphic designers, printers, studios, etc.) Its
price is way out of whack for personal use (unless you're a very serious hobbyist with more money than brains). It's even worse now than it used to be, since Adobe has gone to renting their overpriced software instead of selling it.
But the only reason Photoshop ever comes up in a Linux newsgroup in the
first place is because small-minded twits (take your bows, -highhorse and DuFuS) claim that this totally unnecessary software, at least for the vast majority of computer users, isn't available on Linux.
Whoop dee do. If I
actually needed to use Photoshop (I don't) than I would install it (or rent it, or however you use it now) on either a Mac or Windows machine. Non-problem solved. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of Windows users don't use Photoshop either.
What does any of this "prove" when
dealing with Linux? That an expensive, niche product doesn't work on Linux? There's a lot of bloatware that very few people use that doesn't work on Linux. So what? It proves nothing. It's just grasping at straws by small-minded twits in their attempt to bolster their idiot arguments.
And Photoshop IS way overpriced for personal use. Point, blank, period. I don't apologize for stating this obvious fact.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
lost. =)
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
Postgres is interesting. It's old, but doesn't get mentioned a lot these days. Would you say their engineering culture is something to study?
I've heard that many people do not like the python 2 to 3 debacle, and
that python is becoming worse from a governance perspective. I've heard
the woke mind virus has settled deep within the python project.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 21:09:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Around here, most asshole pickups are black - although occasionally
white - but all of them are immaculate. Not a speck of dirt. They've
probably never been off pavement. The same make and model, but with
some dirt and maybe a ding or two, is typically driven by someone
who's using it for work, rather than as a penis extender.
Not my usual genre but I laughed my butt off at the scene at the end
when the credits are rolling and Sarge, the Willys Jeep, is running a
bootcamp for 4WD trucks and SUVs that have never been off the pavement.
Yes, my post reminded me of that too. :-)
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 11:44:29 -0500, -hh wrote:
[quote]
Unfortunately, the only way that this point actually becomes
"reasonable" is by finally admitting that many/most Linux fanboys are
chronic consummate cheapskates.
[/quote]
You omit that many/most commercial software packages are
EXTORTIONATE in that they capture users via proprietary
formats and subscription accounts. The only difference
between them and the gangsters of old are the machine
guns.
I can pay $100 for a 1/2" power drill and I can expect it
to last 25-50 years or more. (I inherited a power drill
from my grandfather that is almost 70 years old. The
only problem is a loose connection in the power cable
that can be easily fixed.)
That same $100 won't even buy a 1 month subscription
for a desktop software package.
The situation is borderline criminality.
Both software and information want to be free (as in
"freedom" and not "beer"). We are seeing this happen.
Commercial software on the desktop is an endangered species.
I can understand the airline industry paying big bucks
for flight reservation software, or the nuclear power industry
paying big bucks for control software, but a desktop spreadsheet
or word processor is trivial and should cost nothing.
Everything done on the desktop has been standardized decades
ago. There is no need for commercial software in this arena.
Clearly you're just ranting nonsense,
...people will pay M$ and Adobe for software if they really need it,
the question is more whether the average consumer needs them - I, for
one, prefer LO and GIMP
On 1/2/25 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
I agree. I started using Gnome in 2014, it changed the way I use MS
Windows. Menus tend to be arbitrary, very difficult to find stuff. A
short task bar of frequently used apps and text search for other stuff
is much better.
For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
"25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 22:45:28 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, there are rules here, and ways to go around them, somehow. I
understand there is/was a cardboard disk that registers the truck speed.
Now there is some electronic version with a card with a chip
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_tachograph).
The trucks I drove were governed to 65 mph and the company wasn't
converned about the speed. The log book was a 9x12 booklet stapled
together with two staples where you recorded your statuses with a pen, drawing lines on a graph. The staples made it handy to remove fictional
pages after the fact after dreaming up a plausible legal description of
how you got from A to B that matched time stamped materials like fuel or
toll receipts. That was then.
https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/16099-electronic-logging-device.html
Now they know where you are, how fast you're moving, if you're taking
curves a little too aggressively, whether you're taking your breaks, and
so forth. Of course your route is logged so they know if you're dodging scales.
Over and above that if you have a hazardous materials endorsement you need
a DHS security check. Most trucking companies won't hire you without the HazMat endorsement. I never had many hazmat loads but seeming benign stuff like house paint can fall in the category so the company wants the flexibility.
On the plus side if you have placards for Poison or Explosives they give
you plenty of room at truck stops.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:11:11 -0500, -hh wrote:
For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
"25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.
I don't need "luck". I purchased a Milwaukee 1/2" for about $100
(maybe more maybe less). Milwaukee power tools are renowned throughout
the industrial trades as being perhaps the ultimate in quality.
Furthermore, all metal body construction was abandoned long ago due
to the shock hazards. The durable polymers that are now used are more
than an adequate substitute.
But this is all totally superfluous. The main point of the OP is that commercial software companies can easily produce software that can
last decades, if not forever, but such software would literally destroy
them as a business entity. Therefore they are forced into extortionate practices just to keep alive.
FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 23:00, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to
drive or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who >>>>>>> drive
BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the >>>>>>> driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who >>>>>>> drive
lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play
chicken
with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000 >>>>>> pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't
look out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road.
He saw it in time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse
for a while.
Was that recently, or long ago?
Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the
road. Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it
shows in their tempers. They drive around tired.
Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it
is possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows,
my feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the
incident, so no shadow on that man.
Well, anybody can make mistakes :-)
They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and
impedes it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to
brake and swear softly.
Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It
had burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was
spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not
know what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It
was very early in the morning.
I still do not know what I should had done. Probably pull back and
phone 112.
I drive most often i south-eastern spain and I find spanish highways excellent! Spain should designate some areas without speed limit. In
fact, there's a private highway that has very little traffic, since it
cost 10 euros or so to enter the stretch of road, and it is so straight
it could easily accomodate no speed limit! =) In fact, once, when I was happily driving around 165 in a little Fiat 500, a Mercedes overtook me.
He must have been driving around 240 or so.
(snipped, unread)
... as well as to post the receipt to substantiate your price claim.
Oh, I'm quite aware of that,
Depends on the use case, as well as the business model.
there's invariably places for improvement & patches.
FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.
If that were truly a characteristic unique to FOSS, then Linux
(including Android) would never have had any security patch updates.
The Los Alfaques disaster was caused by the explosion of a road tanker
near a holiday campsite on 11 July 1978 in Alcanar, Spain. The exploding truck, which was carrying 23 tons of highly flammable liquefied
propylene, killed 215 people and severely burned 200 more.
... That was when cars had real bumpers and frames so the actual
damage dropped off rapidly.
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
damage to the car. Carter years?
Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
of that.
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they complain about "woke tyranny".
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 01:46:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
damage to the car. Carter years?
Can't blame Jimmy for that one. It all started in '71, so Nixon years.
Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
of that.
A kid with a plow on his pickup made an illegal left turn and hit my
Toyota. Neither of us were doing much more than 20 mph. No injuries, no
air bags, and since I was only a mile and a half from home I drove the car back telling the cop to call off the wrecker.
When the guy from the auto body place selected by the insurance company
came to pick it up, he took a quick look and said 'totaled'. I thought it
was mostly plastic cosmetics but the frame had crumbled.
On 01/01/2025 23:17, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
hank you. But there isn't really any reason why you HAVE to use just
one distro...
There is also no reason why I would use another.
Yes.
The *only* reason I run a headless raspios/Debian setup is because that
is the most used and best known version for the Pi.
Otherwise its Mint all the way. Its *good enough*...
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either >>> and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for
directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and
'death spiral'
IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old
business services division.
No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its
original form.
I wonder if a new owner would be able to shake some life into z and p?
As it is, IBM seems to be trying to kill those lines hard with high prices.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
lost. =)
Find an old International Harvester truck ... SOLID steel all
through. Parts may be tricky though ...
I think IBM still has a future, just not making PCs and typewriters.
STILL doing good chip work however ...
but mostly for internal consumption.
I owned (own?) Photoshop 6 (or 5?) back in the mid 2000s. Bought used on eBay, I think. I messed with it for a few hours and decided it wasn't my
"cup of tea," and gave up on it. They talk about GIMP becoming
complicated.
What did they think Photoshop was... a walk in the park? If I remember correctly, Photoshop 5 or 6 didn't look a lot different than GIMP.
On 1/2/25 6:33 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence
either
and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for
directly
or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and
'death spiral'
IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old
business services division.
No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its
original form.
I wonder if a new owner would be able to shake some life into z and p?
As it is, IBM seems to be trying to kill those lines hard with high
prices.
I've got a fair bit of IBM stock ... it's NOT "dead",
indeed pays pretty good interest. The corp just found
other ways to make a buck and is large enough to make
it work.
But its core biz is NOT exactly what it was in the 80s
and previous.
You still CAN buy an IBM mainframe - up to four linked
Big Black Z Boxes with impressive specs. Even runs the
IBM-branded RedHat if you want (many do). If you've
got a busy global biz, a good way to go.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 01:46:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
damage to the car. Carter years?
Can't blame Jimmy for that one. It all started in '71, so Nixon years.
Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
of that.
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
lost. =)
Goodness, chrisv's new year just hasn't started out well for him.
Time will tell if he metastasizes into YA case of chronic butthurt.
-hh
On 1/2/25 6:28 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:20:50 +0100, D wrote:
Jokes aside, I always thought they all look like Kristi Noem. I can live >>>> with that! =D
There are quite a few of that model. She's Norwegian and according to the >>> 2000 census 10.6% of the state claimed Norwegian ancestry, beating the
Indians by 3%. fwiw, 27% claimed German ancestry. A friend in the know
told me the majority of the Sons of Norway are Germans. That will teach
them to open membership to non-Norwegians.
While it's changing but if you look around at any local event it could be >>> any place in northern Europe.
Santa brought me that book about norwegians emigrating to the US. It is
waiting for me, when I get back to eastern europe (the book store lost it, >> had to track it, and ship it again, but now it's waiting for me). Looking
forward to it! =)
I just happened to see this post this week - it has a DNA map from Viking grave sites across Europe:
<https://www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/photos/a-massive-effort-to-sequence-the-dna-of-vikings-across-europe-was-recently-publi/1126048608976007/?_rdr>
TL;DR: the Vikings got all over the place, predominantly by navigating up rivers ...
Including within Germany, so the statement of a lot of Germans as members of the Sons of Norway makes sense.
-hh
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:30:14 +0100, D wrote:
Postgres is interesting. It's old, but doesn't get mentioned a lot these
days. Would you say their engineering culture is something to study?
Are you kidding?
https://www.enterprisedb.com/blog/postgres-most-admired-database-in-stack- overflow-2023
https://www.timescale.com/blog/postgres-for-everything
What is important to me is the PostGIS add-on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostGIS
SQLite has a similar extension:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpatiaLite
I've heard that many people do not like the python 2 to 3 debacle, and
that python is becoming worse from a governance perspective. I've heard
the woke mind virus has settled deep within the python project.
The backward incompatibility did put people off. Up until ArcGIS 11.x
Esri's ArcPy tools were based on Python 2.7 so my scripts needed to be updated. However 10.7 was the end of the line for the 32-bit Esri tools
along with 2.7 Python so everything changed with 11.
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they complain about "woke tyranny".
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
... That was when cars had real bumpers and frames so the actual
damage dropped off rapidly.
Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
damage to the car. Carter years?
Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
of that.
On 2025-01-02 12:20, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 23:00, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:Was that recently, or long ago?
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive >>>>>>>> or
for some other reason. What I do notice is that many people who >>>>>>>> drive
BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the >>>>>>>> driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who >>>>>>>> drive
lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
exasperated
hand gestures at those of us who don't.
When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play >>>>>>> chicken
with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000 >>>>>>> pounds.
That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look >>>>>> out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw it >>>>>> in time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while. >>>>>
Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road. >>>>> Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in >>>>> their tempers. They drive around tired.
Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it is >>>> possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows, my
feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the incident, so no >>>> shadow on that man.
Well, anybody can make mistakes :-)
They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and impedes >>>>> it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to brake and swear >>>>> softly.
Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It had >>> burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was
spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not know
what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It was very
early in the morning.
I still do not know what I should had done. Probably pull back and phone >>> 112.
I drive most often i south-eastern spain and I find spanish highways
excellent! Spain should designate some areas without speed limit. In fact, >> there's a private highway that has very little traffic, since it cost 10
euros or so to enter the stretch of road, and it is so straight it could
easily accomodate no speed limit! =) In fact, once, when I was happily
driving around 165 in a little Fiat 500, a Mercedes overtook me. He must
have been driving around 240 or so.
There some terrible highways around here. There is one, the RM-1 where the ground has shifted, so badly that if you pass doing 120Km/h your horns will make holes in the roof. Bumps on the road surface.
Instead of repairing them, they limited the speed to 100 or less.
<https://www.google.es/maps/@37.9363242,-0.9704533,11z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D>
You may notice that it is not connected to other highways on the north end. They are still arguing who is going to pay, for a decade or so.
On 1/2/25 6:33 AM, D wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either >>>> and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly >>>> or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and 'death >>> spiral'
IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old
business services division.
No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its original >>> form.
I wonder if a new owner would be able to shake some life into z and p? As
it is, IBM seems to be trying to kill those lines hard with high prices.
I've got a fair bit of IBM stock ... it's NOT "dead",
indeed pays pretty good interest. The corp just found
other ways to make a buck and is large enough to make
it work.
But its core biz is NOT exactly what it was in the 80s
and previous.
You still CAN buy an IBM mainframe - up to four linked
Big Black Z Boxes with impressive specs. Even runs the
IBM-branded RedHat if you want (many do). If you've
got a busy global biz, a good way to go.
https://www.ibm.com/z
Hmmm ... saw something about Plan-9 being ported
to the Z-Boxes ... they were very proud.
I think IBM still has a future, just not making PCs
and typewriters. STILL doing good chip work however ...
but mostly for internal consumption.
On the neg ... IBMs 'AI', "Watson", was originally
a triumph but seems to have fallen a bit behind the
proverbial curve of late. It's still very 'biz
oriented' and has a medical diagnostics branch that's
quite good, but it's not as 'general' as Chat
or OpenAI.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative.
On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
lost. =)
Ah ... "The Wars" return ...... not unexpected alas ...
seems a 'Human Thing", the quest for elevated 'status'
forever and always. On This Episode of Game Of Thrones ...
Fortunately it's not 'war' over Linux Stuff again (yet).
Hey, I can't program a TCP stack from memory or know
every detail of sockets at the ASM level (and no, I did
not have an extensive ed in every 'philosophy')- guess
that makes me totally inferior and useless. Always
was a Jack Of All Trades, Master Of Few. Whatever,
I ain't that proud, good for what I'm good for and
that's good enough :-)
No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading
that group.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative. That's a woke abomination in open source and is
exactly what leads to the culture wars and cancellations we have.
On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
On 1/2/25 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
I agree. I started using Gnome in 2014, it changed the way I use MS
Windows. Menus tend to be arbitrary, very difficult to find stuff. A
short task bar of frequently used apps and text search for other stuff
is much better.
On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the >>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or
just plain conservative.
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing
someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; the question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard
that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to
being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
I've been running XFCE for at least a decade and I for me it is a nice
sweet spot of a more comprehensive desktop environment that is also
fairly light on resources.
I do not use the menu system, but only a keyboard launcher instead.
D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to
annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading
that group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in
comp.os.linux.advocacy. Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked
into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder
of why I stopped reading that group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
OpenSUSE is also great - but I'm worried about how
it uses the now IBM-owned sources.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 08:10:24 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I owned (own?) Photoshop 6 (or 5?) back in the mid 2000s. Bought used on
eBay, I think. I messed with it for a few hours and decided it wasn't my
"cup of tea," and gave up on it. They talk about GIMP becoming
complicated.
What did they think Photoshop was... a walk in the park? If I remember
correctly, Photoshop 5 or 6 didn't look a lot different than GIMP.
I had something way way back.
All I remember was almost developing carpal
tunnel screwing around with pixels. I don't have the greatest hand/eye coordination which is a real drawback for video games and image editing.
(snipped, unread)
I used to have Photoshop Elements on the Mac; I never used it. Since
then, I've practically never needed to use such an application. If I
have, Paint.net or GIMP did the job. I have yet to sit in the corner of
a room holding my knees and crying because I didn't have Photoshop
installed.
I owned (own?) Photoshop 6 (or 5?) back in the mid 2000s. Bought used on eBay, I think. I messed with it for a few hours and decided it wasn't my
"cup of tea," and gave up on it. They talk about GIMP becoming complicated. What did they think Photoshop was... a walk in the park? If I remember correctly, Photoshop 5 or 6 didn't look a lot different than GIMP.
Whoop dee do. If I
actually needed to use Photoshop (I don't) than I would install it (or rent >>> it, or however you use it now) on either a Mac or Windows machine.
Non-problem solved. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of
Windows users don't use Photoshop either.
They don't. The only people using it and/or requiring it work in the
field of photography or image manipulation. I would bet that most of us
don't even know people that work in the former or latter fields.
I've only ever been around Photoshop at the print shop where I worked
(except for my short and lame attempt at learning it). If it's a tool you need, by all means get it. I'm guessing the Windows or Mac computer you
would need to run it would be cheaper to buy than the Photoshop application itself. To pretend it's a reason NOT to use Linux is absurd and extreme clutching at straws.
Here is an argument for using software under Linux: you don't need to
create an account to download the software, and don't need to create
another to use it. In fact, you don't need to identify yourself at all
to use your computer.
The few times I've used GIMP it's done what I needed it to do. I don't manipulate photos much (or hardly at all). It would be a total waste of my money to rent Photoshop. (I think the hobbyists who do rent it, probably use it sparingly, i.e., they're basically wasting their money.) But that's their prerogative.
Even taking away the cost factor from Windows software, it's a pain in the butt to keep registered and (even when you can buy it) upgrades are often expensive.
For example, I bought Fade In, proprietary screenwriting software that works in Linux, Windows and Macs for $80 a few years ago. Its license allows me to use it on as many computers as I want, in any combination of Windows, Linux or Macs. (I've tested it on Windows and Macs, but I use it in Linux.) Since
I bought it there has been one major upgrade from v3 to v4 and many small point upgrades. I have never paid for a single upgrade.
Compare it to Final Draft (which doesn't work on Linux), which costs $250 (usually on sale for about $200, sometimes cheaper). It comes with a license that allows it to be used on three computers (only for one platform). You
buy the Windows version, it only works on Windows, same with the Mac
version, only Macs. You have to activate your licenses via the Internet. If you want to put it on another computer (and you're out of activations), you have to deactivate it from the old computer and activate it on the new one. If your computer crashes, you've lost one of your activations. You can get
it back by requesting it and hoping they believe you. That is, you can get
it back IF the version of your Final Draft is new enough to still be supported. If you're using an older version of Final Draft and it
deactivates for whatever reason, you're shit out of luck. They'll offer to sell you an upgrade for $100. If you're using an older Mac computer (for example) and it's not supported by the newer version of Final Draft, again, you're shit out of luck. Many writers upgrade every time Final Draft comes out with a new version, at $100 a pop. Then there's a whole slew of serious issues reports for about a year because Final Draft (like Microsoft) uses their buyers as beta testers. And, like Microsoft, it takes forever to get a bug fix.
Compare that to Fade In. Somebody on Reddit wanted a feature. I got hold of the publisher, in three days there was a new version of Fade In with the new feature added. The publisher of Fade In is also a screenwriter. Final Draft is owned by a corporation and Final Draft is a side business for them. And since they're the self-proclaimed "standard," they have the "take it or
leave it" attitude. Not surprisingly a lot of people are moving to Fade In (and several other lesser known applications) — including my favorite, Trelby — which has just gotten a new release and it's completely free and open.
(Yeah, I rambled. Sorry.)
On 03/01/2025 11:58, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does
the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or
just plain conservative.
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing
someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
No.
It means losing your career and livelihood because you said that women
don't have a penis.
Or because you said that Mohammed wasn't a very nice person, after all.
Or losing an eye because of that.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse
wokery in every performance and every film play or radio drama that you
were involved in.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse 'man
made climate change'.
There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; theAbolish woke.
question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard
that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to
being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
Make it perfectly legal to think anything and say anything that is not a direct incitement to public violence.
Battle racism by repealing all laws that diifferentiate between ethnic groups
Let society, not the Law, judge whether a man in a summer frock is
really a woman or just a sick saddo.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:49:59 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Find an old International Harvester truck ... SOLID steel all
through. Parts may be tricky though ...
My '86 F-150 is reasonably solid. I was sitting in it reading in a parking lot when a woman trying to park backed into it. I didn't even bother to
get out to see if she'd done any damage. That was the front bumper. If
she'd backed into the step,n,tow bumper on the rear her problems might
have been greater.
On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. Its
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric.
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. Its
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out >>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and
they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop >>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather >>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I
do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to Linux,
I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
On 03/01/2025 11:58, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does
the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or
just plain conservative.
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing
someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
No.
It means losing your career and livelihood because you said that women
don't have a penis.
Or because you said that Mohammed wasn't a very nice person, after all.
Or losing an eye because of that.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse
wokery in every performance and every film play or radio drama that you
were involved in.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse 'man
made climate change'.
There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; theAbolish woke.
question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard
that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to
being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
Make it perfectly legal to think anything and say anything that is not a direct incitement to public violence.
Battle racism by repealing all laws that diifferentiate between ethnic groups
Let society, not the Law, judge whether a man in a summer frock is
really a woman or just a sick saddo.
Carlos E.R. wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out >>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop >>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather >>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
As time goes on, *some* will learn.
On 2025-01-03 12:16, D wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
I've been running XFCE for at least a decade and I for me it is a nice
sweet spot of a more comprehensive desktop environment that is also
fairly light on resources.
I do not use the menu system, but only a keyboard launcher instead.
I switched to XFCE when Gnome went into version 3. Not sure it is 3, but
when they changed the paradigm and killed the menu.
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has changed
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric. >>>Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
Well I will merely quote from the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and
1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition of
a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and
Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out >>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and >>>>>> they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop >>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the
widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather >>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that >>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of
what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's
how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree
with their design choice.
Its very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
I had a similar experience a week or so ago. I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my vehicle.
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. Its
very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition of
a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Well I will merely quote from the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric. >>>Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and
1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 08:41:35 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I had a similar experience a week or so ago. I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who
parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my
vehicle.
That's something I have to watch very carefully. I've got a 2 door
hatchback and the doors are wide enough to allow a hypothetical person to
get in the back seat. I folded the back seats forward the day I took
delivery of the car so that's a moot point but sometimes to avoid contact
I have to slither out through a partially open door. When they layout
parking lots for maximum volume they ignore about 50% of the vehicles will
be oversized pickups that really makes the situation worse.
D wrote:
OpenAI are good at marketing. They will probably crash the second
their models do no longer improve.
Sooner than that, possibly. They're absolutely *hemorrhaging* money,
every iteration of the product takes longer and costs more to develop/ >"train,"
I think this was common knowledge, but maybe this serves to prove it
more fully? I always wonder how much DNA I have from eastern europe
since my ancestors travelled east down to turkey. On the other hand, on
my mothers side, my ancestors fled norway to iceland, and those guys
were travelling more in southwestern europe. Could probably be some DNA
from there as well.
Reminds me of old Saabs. Those had what you could call a bumper!
chrisv wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
(snipped, unread)
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
"So then why is it that a primary premise of Open Source - - security
through many eyes - - so utterly failed here?"
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
I have a friend that got a new, very well paying, job at some job with
IBM hardware and doing new things with it (including buying more
hardware). Financial or bank sector.
They need hardware that is immensely capable and runs full time in some sectors.
A lot of the sophistication (& differentiation) in PS was through its
use of Layers, particularly for making selective exposure adjustments.
Interesting! Clearly I live in a corner of the IT space that is way, way
too fashionable. I am of course aware of postgres, but have not
encountered it for many years.
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition of a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
On 03/01/2025 11:32, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the >>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative. That's a woke abomination in open source and is exactly >> what leads to the culture wars and cancellations we have.
'woke' is Marxism rebranded. It uses all the old Marxist AgitProp techniques which some of us are very familiar with.
It's not about manners, it's about political power, and the destruction of societal norms and cultural history. Its about the creation of dissent and hatred.
It is probably funded indirectly by the FSB. As an asymmetric war technique to promote the destruction of freedom and democracy - Russia's greatest threat.
A knew a communist very well at University. He explained how communists were going to infiltrate every single organisation over his lifetime. It's called the by a communist (Rudi Dutschke) who is now a member of the EU, 'The long march through the institutions'. The aim was/is to destroy existing society and replace it with a new communist one as the first step towards a socialist Utopia.
I have watched it happen,.
Finally people have woken up.
And elected a complete arsehole whose one saving grace is that he is not 'woke'
On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to
annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading that
group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the >>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative.
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; the question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
-hh
On 03/01/2025 11:58, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the >>>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
complain about "woke tyranny".
That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative.
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing someone >> because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
No.
It means losing your career and livelihood because you said that women don't have a penis.
Or because you said that Mohammed wasn't a very nice person, after all.
Or losing an eye because of that.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse wokery in every performance and every film play or radio drama that you were involved in.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse 'man made climate change'.
There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; theAbolish woke.
question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard that >> won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to being an >> abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
Make it perfectly legal to think anything and say anything that is not a direct incitement to public violence.
Battle racism by repealing all laws that diifferentiate between ethnic groups
Let society, not the Law, judge whether a man in a summer frock is really a woman or just a sick saddo.
On 2025-01-03 12:16, D wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a >>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
I've been running XFCE for at least a decade and I for me it is a nice
sweet spot of a more comprehensive desktop environment that is also fairly >> light on resources.
I do not use the menu system, but only a keyboard launcher instead.
I switched to XFCE when Gnome went into version 3. Not sure it is 3, but when they changed the paradigm and killed the menu.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to
annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading
that group.
That's rather ironic, coming from someone who thinks that it "sounded"
like I admitted defeat, because I temporarily ignored someone who had
just attacked me without basis.
How is defeat even possible, when I was so clearly in the right?
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
About Linux, you are correct.
Your response, if any, will be deleted, unread.
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science has >> found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has changed
On 2025-01-03 07:11, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara, >>>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out >>>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they >>>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers >>>>>> a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop >>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets >>>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather >>>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that >>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do >>>> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
design choice.
What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
As time goes on, *some* will learn.
No, most will. I agree that most people have the memory of a fruit fly, but I imagine that if they installed Linux in the first place, they're probably brighter.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 12:42:31 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
OpenAI are good at marketing. They will probably crash the second
their models do no longer improve.
Sooner than that, possibly. They're absolutely *hemorrhaging* money,
every iteration of the product takes longer and costs more to develop/
"train," they're bucking for the mother of all IP-infringement suits
when the corporate media behemoths finally catch up with them (anyone
gets "Sora" to produce a Disney character, and you might as well just
head for the fallout shelter,) "hallucinations" are still essentially unsolvable given the way the thing works, and it still can't do *half*
of what they keep promising it will Real Soon Now.
Ed Zitron - https://www.wheresyoured.at/ - has done a lot of solid
writing on this in the last year or two. If they didn't have a bunch of vulture capitalists constantly pumping the money firehose in hopes of
selling it to CEOs on the prospect of being able to fire all their
employees and replace them with ChatGPT, they'dve been dead and buried
long ago.
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Well I will merely quote from the Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric. >>>Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article mentions >> that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000 calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and 1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 08:41:35 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I had a similar experience a week or so ago. I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who
parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my
vehicle.
That's something I have to watch very carefully. I've got a 2 door
hatchback and the doors are wide enough to allow a hypothetical person to
get in the back seat. I folded the back seats forward the day I took
delivery of the car so that's a moot point but sometimes to avoid contact
I have to slither out through a partially open door. When they layout
parking lots for maximum volume they ignore about 50% of the vehicles will
be oversized pickups that really makes the situation worse.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 11:26:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition of
a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
I understand your point but I've self-censored myself for a very long
time. My unfiltered thoughts probably would get me fired or blacklisted.
What does bother me about woke is, while I wouldn't refer to someone as a fat, black, lesbian asshole in most conversations, not the fat, black, lesbian asshole wants a pat on the head.
I think some of it is épater le bourgeois but I'm from the wrong
generation to be shocked by a pierced, rainbow-haired blob. I do regret
that they have achieved any political power.
I don't like musicals but I'm reminded of 'Cabaret' and what happened when the music stopped at the Kit Kat Klub.
On 2025-01-03 11:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric. >>>>Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article mentions >>> that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level
today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest level
occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000 calendar >> years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an acceleration >> of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and 1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Regardless of the facts, we must throw money at the sky until all of it stops!
John Ames wrote:
D wrote:
OpenAI are good at marketing. They will probably crash the second
their models do no longer improve.
Sooner than that, possibly. They're absolutely *hemorrhaging* money,
every iteration of the product takes longer and costs more to develop/
"train,"
And, just when conserving energy and water or near the top of
society's concerns, the "data centers" use massive amounts of both.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 12:30:44 +0100, D wrote:
Reminds me of old Saabs. Those had what you could call a bumper!
What era? The only Saab I drove was a girlfriend's. It was a 92 or maybe a 93, I forget which. It did have a bumper of sorts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagmar_bumper
Those were bumpers!
Trivia: The Dagmar the bumpers were named after was an actress's stage
name that went back to a TV show we alwayes watched, 'Mama', aobut an extended Norwegian family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mama_(American_TV_series)
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 12:19:27 +0100, D wrote:
Interesting! Clearly I live in a corner of the IT space that is way, way
too fashionable. I am of course aware of postgres, but have not
encountered it for many years.
It's come a long way and is also popular in the cloud. Do you want to pay
for SQL Server, DB2, or Oracle when there is a very capable free database?
If you don't want to get your hands dirty Amazon will do the heavy lifting for a small hourly fee.
https://aws.amazon.com/rds/postgresql/
John Ames wrote:
D wrote:
OpenAI are good at marketing. They will probably crash the second
their models do no longer improve.
Sooner than that, possibly. They're absolutely *hemorrhaging* money,
every iteration of the product takes longer and costs more to develop/
"train,"
And, just when conserving energy and water or near the top of
society's concerns, the "data centers" use massive amounts of both.
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
(snipped, unread)
Let me guess: Quotes from cola advocates proving that, yes, they do
consider value when making a choice! How terrible!
That must mean that they would rather use Windows or Mac! Not.
-highhorse doesn't understand the importance of software freedom, so
he takes it out on his moral and intellectual superiors. He thinks
it's about being a "cheapskate" or a "freeloader". -highhorse claims
that "the open source nature of Linux tends to attractthe type of
persona who somehow believes that all avenues are one-way streets set
up to benefit him (and only him) as the true & deserving holy center
of the universe."
-highhorse is a stupid person and an asshole.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition
of a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
This is the truth. What we are seeing is a big reaction against the mind virus. In europe, a big part of the reaction is against immigration and eco-fascism.
On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its
anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea
level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest
level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million
years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an
acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and
1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Yes, the rate of raise was nearly stable **before** the Industrial Age.
Which is the point: the contemporary acceleration in the rate of rise
is a change, and it is coincident with the advent of the Industrial Age.
You should be happy that you (most likely) have never tried to park in a european garage located in the old parts of town.
Negro has also become a symbol word.
Conserving energy and water is only important to those of us who aren't tasked with spying on everyone.
I would think that eco-fascists would also demonstrate against
crypto-mining, but no, airplanes, who release ridiculously small amounts
of CO2, that's apparently the problem.
You probably wouldn't have so much immigration in Europe if the people
in charge in the United States weren't so determined to start wars everywhere.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 08:41:35 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I had a similar experience a week or so ago. I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who
parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my
vehicle.
That's something I have to watch very carefully. I've got a 2 door
hatchback and the doors are wide enough to allow a hypothetical person to
get in the back seat. I folded the back seats forward the day I took
delivery of the car so that's a moot point but sometimes to avoid contact
I have to slither out through a partially open door. When they layout
parking lots for maximum volume they ignore about 50% of the vehicles will
be oversized pickups that really makes the situation worse.
On 04/01/2025 01:27, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Conserving energy and water is only important to those of us who
aren't tasked with spying on everyone.
Conserving energy and water is only important to those of us who haven't
got enough.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:49:59 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Find an old International Harvester truck ... SOLID steel all
through. Parts may be tricky though ...
My '86 F-150 is reasonably solid. I was sitting in it reading in a parking lot when a woman trying to park backed into it. I didn't even bother to
get out to see if she'd done any damage. That was the front bumper. If
she'd backed into the step,n,tow bumper on the rear her problems might
have been greater.
On Sat, 3 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 12:30:44 +0100, D wrote:
Reminds me of old Saabs. Those had what you could call a bumper!
What era? The only Saab I drove was a girlfriend's. It was a 92 or
maybe a
93, I forget which. It did have a bumper of sorts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagmar_bumper
Those were bumpers!
Trivia: The Dagmar the bumpers were named after was an actress's stage
name that went back to a TV show we alwayes watched, 'Mama', aobut an
extended Norwegian family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mama_(American_TV_series)
This is a beautiful bumper:
https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe5%2FSaab_900_GLE_%282%29_%28crop%29.jpg&sp=1735951735T1b8aa114fd353d88b4d34fd3554f5b9455c5317dadea52d972489e1e4be614a0
.
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
it in a garage many decades ago.
On 01/01/2025 22:01, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent,
reasonable people you are.
If you don't read what you comment on, aren't you afraid that you are
missing important parts of the argument? Also, how can you build
spiritual bridges of love between two human beings that way?
He doan want no stinkin' spiritual bridges of lurve.
Cash or credit card only.
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
OpenSUSE is also great - but I'm worried about how
it uses the now IBM-owned sources.
Are you saing that they use source code that is owned by IBM and not
released under any open-source license?
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 11:28:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. Its
very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to Linux, I
didn't have to relearn very much at all..
My first Windows box was 3.1 with the Program Manager. That was a little primitive. Windows 95 introduced the Start Menu and for better or worse became what I thought the desktop should look like.
I forget all the managers I tried on Linux in the early days. mwm, tmw,
FVWM, IceWM, Sawfish, etc but I preferred the ones that looked like
Windows.
On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in
comp.os.linux.advocacy. Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked
into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder
of why I stopped reading that group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
Trolling 101. Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
person would side with the dipshit.
Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
in this thread, from now on.
Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better
and lost. =)
Ah ... "The Wars" return ...... not unexpected alas ...
seems a 'Human Thing", the quest for elevated 'status'
forever and always. On This Episode of Game Of Thrones ...
Fortunately it's not 'war' over Linux Stuff again (yet).
No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading
that group.
Hey, I can't program a TCP stack from memory or know
every detail of sockets at the ASM level (and no, I did
not have an extensive ed in every 'philosophy')- guess
that makes me totally inferior and useless. Always
was a Jack Of All Trades, Master Of Few. Whatever,
I ain't that proud, good for what I'm good for and
that's good enough :-)
On 1/2/25 4:29 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 16:11:11 -0500, -hh wrote:
For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for >>> just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
"25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.
I don't need "luck". I purchased a Milwaukee 1/2" for about $100
(maybe more maybe less). Milwaukee power tools are renowned throughout
the industrial trades as being perhaps the ultimate in quality.
Yeah, Milwaukee's good, but they're not $100.
Grainger's price is $187+:
<https://www.grainger.com/product/3DU39>
Of course, you're free to go buy from someplace else, where you're
taking a risk on codeshares or counterfeits ...
... as well as to post the receipt to substantiate your price claim.
Furthermore, all metal body construction was abandoned long ago due
to the shock hazards. The durable polymers that are now used are more
than an adequate substitute.
Oh, I'm quite aware of that, because the hand-me-down that I got had to
get tossed at <40 years age because it was shorting out to the body. I
used it for awhile wearing workgloves before getting fed up and a 1/2" Craftsman- it lasted only around 15 years before it died. These days, I look to Dewalt, Bosch or Makita as first string.
But this is all totally superfluous. The main point of the OP is that
commercial software companies can easily produce software that can
last decades, if not forever, but such software would literally destroy
them as a business entity. Therefore they are forced into extortionate
practices just to keep alive.
Depends on the use case, as well as the business model. For example, there's code that's been use for ~50 years but its not been static the
entire time: there's invariably places for improvement & patches.
FOSS, OTOH, has no such ridiculous concerns.
If that were truly a characteristic unique to FOSS, then Linux
(including Android) would never have had any security patch updates.
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means 'black'.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its
anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
Let me also add that the dutch have been able to handle it for several
100s of years, so there absolutely nothing to be worried about. It is natural, and we can handle it perfectly.
I think all the ones that use traditional databases I encountered are
using either mysql, mariadb or sql server for linux which I think was
free for a while. Sql server for linux was a joke. The company was
offered help to migrate to mysql or mariadb, refused, since they were microsoft loyalists, and continued to live with downtime every month,
rather than switching.
Conserving energy and water is only important to those of us who aren't tasked with spying on everyone.
I knew a guy who made bumpers out of two large wooden utility poles
he'd cut to size and shape. Older Chevy 3500 series. Looked 'rugged',
kinda 'back-country'. Damned things were a good 8" thick and about
12" tall. No little old lady was gonna so much as dent them in a
parking-lot oopsie.
On 04/01/2025 00:38, D wrote:
You should be happy that you (most likely) have never tried to park in
a european garage located in the old parts of town.
My current car is simply too wide to fit my current garage
You should be happy that you (most likely) have never tried to park in a european garage located in the old parts of town. Bacteria have a hard
time fitting in those parking lots.
As a counter to that, I've started to drop a few "negros" in
conversations here and there out in town, and I also started to wear my
MAGA hat on the streets of Stockholm.
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means 'black'.
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
it in a garage many decades ago.
I am surprised that eco-fascists are not protesting against the big IT corporations. But most likely that would not result in higher taxes and
more power to socialist politicians, so that is probably why they are ignored.
Hallucinations will probably have to be "fixed" by either hiring
africans to double check answers, sorry "fact check", and then store
those so that similar queries are redirected to those canned answers.
Somehow I think they lost control over the movement. It is fun to see
the wringing of hands of a lot of communists and socialists from the 60s
who were "all in" russia, and to see them explain what's happening there
now.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:06:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means
'black'.
The best PC invention is latinx. It sounds like something you take when
you haven't shit in three days. I don't even think the latinx people care
for it. Indian is touchy too. Some are into 'Native American', some
aren't.
Most ALL code of any size and scope can be "improved".
If not 'security' then streamlining. And yes, some of
the basic algos go all the way back to young Bill Gates.
They used to have contests - who could do what in the
least number of bytes/cycles. Bill often won.
(and then the blood-signed contract ... :-)
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means 'black'.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:43:35 +0100, D wrote:
As a counter to that, I've started to drop a few "negros" in
conversations here and there out in town, and I also started to wear my
MAGA hat on the streets of Stockholm.
When I was growing up niggers preferred to be called Negroes. It's hard to keep track. Of course when I was growing up we also had polocks, wops,
kikes, and and other designations. My mother was politically correct
before her time and would accuse my father of sounding like Hitler.
The punchline is she thought any male Negro over the age of five was going
to rape her. My father had no problems with niggers. They were just people until proven differently. I learned about hypocrisy and pretty words
early.
I don't have a MAGA hat. In the summer I have a NRA hat that I wear
hiking; that's almost as good.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
Yes. Absolutely it does.
Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition
of a modern Puritanism.
Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.
Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.
This is the truth. What we are seeing is a big reaction against the mind virus. In europe, a big part of the reaction is against immigration and eco-fascism.
On 04/01/2025 01:36, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
You probably wouldn't have so much immigration in Europe if the people
in charge in the United States weren't so determined to start wars
everywhere.
Actually, its mainly Russia and Iran behind it all these days
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 22:29:13 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I knew a guy who made bumpers out of two large wooden utility poles
he'd cut to size and shape. Older Chevy 3500 series. Looked 'rugged',
kinda 'back-country'. Damned things were a good 8" thick and about
12" tall. No little old lady was gonna so much as dent them in a
parking-lot oopsie.
It would make sense around here where the deer and the antelope play -- in the road. Scratch the antelope. They're lightweights. It the elk and moose that can really do a number.
I had a deer riding on the hood of my last Toyota. No fatal damage. The
hood still closed although it had a new sculpted look and a few nylon ties took care of the plastic pieces.
On 2024-12-28 00:04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 14:57:55 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, I appreciate that I can get gratis a piece of software that is
that good.
If you think Free Software could be better, and you would rather not give
money to a proprietary company, why not contribute some of that money to
the development of the Free Software and help make it better?
How do you know if I already do, or don't?
On 2025-01-04, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
Most ALL code of any size and scope can be "improved".
If not 'security' then streamlining. And yes, some of
the basic algos go all the way back to young Bill Gates.
They used to have contests - who could do what in the
least number of bytes/cycles. Bill often won.
The tricks he used would get people fired now.
(and then the blood-signed contract ... :-)
I remember shooting someone out of the saddle when
she claimed that Lord Bill was a programming genius.
He was no such thing - but he was a _marketing_ genius.
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built on
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and
Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try >>>>>>> out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics,
and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop >>>>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the
widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd
rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that >>>>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of
what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's
how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree
with their design choice.
Its very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all the
better.
On 1/3/25 6:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in
comp.os.linux.advocacy. Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked
into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder
of why I stopped reading that group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Yup, its a product of crossposting. Things change and USENET just
doesn't have the audience it did 30 years ago to have groups have
sufficient critical mass to sustain (on- or off-topic) dialogs/
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
For example, take a new digital camera: wouldn't it be nice to not have
to wait a year to read its new RAW file format? Most folk just want
pics, so they choose a platform where its supported on launch, not to
have to sit down to DIY write & test a 3rd party driver first.
Meantime, my New Year's Resolution is to tweak my Linux NAS; seems that
it needs a better RAM cache to not bottleneck on network, and those
parts are due to arrive this weekend. I'll have to look around to see if
I have some spare NVMEs to change up its disk cache while I'm at it too.
If that doesn't resolve things, then its probably time to look to some network gear to move some nodes from 1GbE to 10GbE.
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority brand
in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo on every block
while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 01:40:33 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
Biggest assholes where I live are Tesla owners, Dodge Hemi and Mustang
owners.
It used to be Land/Range Rover people but things have changed.
When you pul up behind a F-250 with imitation bull testicles dangling from the trailer hitch you have a good idea what you're dealing with.
The USA is inherently isolationist ... would rather NOT mess around
with any other countries. There's "Here" and "Over There".
ANYhow ... Bill didn't START as 'evil' ...
In short, the 'racism' picture even in the southern
USA was not as simple and monolithic as the usual
rhetoric/media likes to portray. Reality would not
be as 'politically useful'.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:06:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well calling them Indians was a mistake made by some twat who thought
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means
'black'.
The best PC invention is latinx. It sounds like something you take when
you haven't shit in three days. I don't even think the latinx people care
for it. Indian is touchy too. Some are into 'Native American', some
aren't.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority brand
in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo on every block
while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
The USA is inherently isolationist ... would rather NOT
mess around with any other countries. There's "Here"
and "Over There".
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
For example, take a new digital camera: wouldn't it be nice to not have
to wait a year to read its new RAW file format? Most folk just want
pics, so they choose a platform where its supported on launch, not to
have to sit down to DIY write & test a 3rd party driver first.
Meantime, my New Year's Resolution is to tweak my Linux NAS
On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:But LONG before any distinctive rise in CO2, which really dint start until post WWII
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard science >>>>>> has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its anthropometric. >>>>>Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise >>>>
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea level >>> today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the lowest level
occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)." >>>
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to an
acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850 and 1900 >>> AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Yes, the rate of raise was nearly stable **before** the Industrial Age.
Which is the point: the contemporary acceleration in the rate of rise is a >> change, and it is coincident with the advent of the Industrial Age.
So no correlation with CO2 at all.
Try not to be a climate denier
On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:But LONG before any distinctive rise in CO2, which really dint start
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard
science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its
anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise >>>>
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea
level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the
lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250
million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to
an acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850
and 1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Yes, the rate of raise was nearly stable **before** the Industrial Age.
Which is the point: the contemporary acceleration in the rate of rise
is a change, and it is coincident with the advent of the Industrial Age.
until post WWII
So no correlation with CO2 at all.
Try not to be a climate denier
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means 'black'.
On 04/01/2025 00:47, D wrote:
I would think that eco-fascists would also demonstrate against
crypto-mining, but no, airplanes, who release ridiculously small amounts of >> CO2, that's apparently the problem.
The moment you realise that the green movement is not rational, but emotional, you realise it can have no real substance, or they wouldn't have to use emotional arguments.
On 1/3/25 3:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 08:41:35 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I had a similar experience a week or so ago. I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who
parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my
vehicle.
That's something I have to watch very carefully. I've got a 2 door
hatchback and the doors are wide enough to allow a hypothetical person to
get in the back seat. I folded the back seats forward the day I took
delivery of the car so that's a moot point but sometimes to avoid contact
I have to slither out through a partially open door. When they layout
parking lots for maximum volume they ignore about 50% of the vehicles will >> be oversized pickups that really makes the situation worse.
A common 'zoning' req for biz is to have x-number
of "parking spaces". So, they mark 'em out for
Mini-Coopers - not Expeditions.
On 1/3/25 7:49 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 12:30:44 +0100, D wrote:
Reminds me of old Saabs. Those had what you could call a bumper!
What era? The only Saab I drove was a girlfriend's. It was a 92 or maybe a >>> 93, I forget which. It did have a bumper of sorts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagmar_bumper
Those were bumpers!
Trivia: The Dagmar the bumpers were named after was an actress's stage
name that went back to a TV show we alwayes watched, 'Mama', aobut an
extended Norwegian family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mama_(American_TV_series)
This is a beautiful bumper:
https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe5%2FSaab_900_GLE_%282%29_%28crop%29.jpg&sp=1735951735T1b8aa114fd353d88b4d34fd3554f5b9455c5317dadea52d972489e1e4be614a0
.
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw it >> in a garage many decades ago.
Old truck I owned, fitted 8x2 'C'-beam as rear bumper.
A common trick at the time was for perps to fake a
'rear-end accident' using a stolen car - and when
you got out they'd all jump you. I think someone
tried that on me once ... just left 'em in the road,
barely scratched the paint on the bumper :-)
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:38:10 +0100, D wrote:
You should be happy that you (most likely) have never tried to park in a
european garage located in the old parts of town. Bacteria have a hard
time fitting in those parking lots.
Quebec City is as close to a European town as we get. We went there on our honeymoon in my Lincoln Continental.
https://www.classic.com/veh/1962-lincoln-continental-sedan-2y82h406575- pgKPY1p/
5500 pounds at the curb, 430 ci engine to motivate it. We stayed at the Chateau Frontenac.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_Frontenac
When I saw the lay of the land I parked the Lincoln and rented a Dodge
Colt, a rebranded Mitsubishi when Japanese cars were barely roadworthy. In the Lincoln I could cruise at 100 while my bride snoozed. In the TonkaToy
I could get up to almost 25 before her panic attack set in but it handled
a city with its roots in the 17th century.
On 1/3/25 7:27 AM, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 6:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
No I think it is just because someone pulled in
comp.os.linux.advocacy. Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked
into it, found it way to annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder
of why I stopped reading that group.
Yup. Ain't that the truth.
Yup, its a product of crossposting. Things change and USENET just
doesn't have the audience it did 30 years ago to have groups have
sufficient critical mass to sustain (on- or off-topic) dialogs/
USENET isn't what it was ... has kinda fallen off
the proverbial radar. IMHO this is kinda GOOD.
Shit ... when I first got into Usenet the AI guru
Minsky used to post to the AI groups - things were
respectable then.
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Well ... 'tool', yes ... but ALSO a 'philosophy',
a way of looking at things. Lin is NOT Win.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Well, Win is MOSTLY 'weaknesses' ....
For example, take a new digital camera: wouldn't it be nice to not
have to wait a year to read its new RAW file format? Most folk just
want pics, so they choose a platform where its supported on launch,
not to have to sit down to DIY write & test a 3rd party driver first.
Linux, and esp BSD Unix, are always a bit behind
the driver curve. However I've never found that to
be a major inconvenience. Much stuff just doesn't
change that quickly anymore.
Meantime, my New Year's Resolution is to tweak my Linux NAS; seems
that it needs a better RAM cache to not bottleneck on network, and
those parts are due to arrive this weekend. I'll have to look around
to see if I have some spare NVMEs to change up its disk cache while
I'm at it too. If that doesn't resolve things, then its probably
time to look to some network gear to move some nodes from 1GbE to 10GbE.
Done lots of NAS over the years. Used packages
and kinda wrote my own too.
Yes, 'tweaks' can help - a LITTLE.
However, if you really try to benchmark it, the
tweaks don't REALLY add much but complication
and ops for failure.
So, from my long experience, stick close to
'vanilla' and you'll do OK and not SUFFER.
Oft unrealized gem these days - OpenMediaVault.
It's become a very complete NAS system yet is
still kinda 'light' code-wise. DO note that
you can't just write randomly to its files
because the system won't index it - will not
think your direct writes exist. Gotta set up
like SMB shares in scripts or whatever that
ref it's 'approved' shares. THEN it'll work.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 07:42:48 -0500, -hh wrote:
A lot of the sophistication (& differentiation) in PS was through its
use of Layers, particularly for making selective exposure adjustments.
All very well if you have a dozen or two dozen images to deal with, but
what if you have a thousand?
This is where command-line/scriptable tools like ImageMagick/
GraphicsMagick come into their own. Also the Python scriptability of GIMP, Inkscape etc can be helpful.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 16:09:35 -0500, -hh wrote:
"So then why is it that a primary premise of Open Source - - security
through many eyes - - so utterly failed here?"
For the usual reason: the companies repurposing the Open Source software didn’t keep it up to date.
The essence of Open Source is that the developers who create the code have
no control over how it is reused and redistributed -- just so long as the licences are observed, they have no other leverage, no control over QA, nothing.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means
'black'.
Are you saying that the woke establishment, and 99% of non-english
speakers in europe are uneducated?? ;)
I always try to explain the difference between nigger and negro, but apparently that difference is beyond most, if not all people today. =/Nigger is to negro as Santa Claus is to Saint Nicholas. and goodbye is
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 07:27:46 -0500, -hh wrote:
Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Your limited mind certainly would come to that simplistic conclusion.
A computer is *not* a tool -- it is a meta-tool. IOW, it is a tool
that is used to create other tools. A computer is akin to a grand
piano. By itself it does nothing; it requires a consummate virtuoso
to bring forth its potential.
(Note: YOU are not a consummate virtuoso. YOU are a subservient
user of simple tools.)
GNU/Linux allows the computing virtuoso to shine. GNU/Linux
embodies the most efficient design and structure for the most
effective computing.
Microslop/Apphole does not. Microslop/Apphole are made only to feebly empower idiots and retards -- like YOU.
For example, take a new digital camera: wouldn't it be nice to not have
to wait a year to read its new RAW file format? Most folk just want
pics, so they choose a platform where its supported on launch, not to
have to sit down to DIY write & test a 3rd party driver first.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Another whopper from the mind
of a simpleton!
Remember film cameras? Did the user of a Brand X film camera have
to buy Brand X film and then send his exposed rolls off to Brand X
for development? No. Film from any camera could be taken to any
corner drug store for processing. All cameras used the same film
that used the same processing.
It should be the same with digital cameras, but the grubbing camera
makers have found a way to capture their users (and milk their money)
by creating unique RAW formats for each brand.
There is nothing exceptional about the RAW format. Nikon, for example,
uses the standard TIFF image format with the addition of a few extra proprietary tags. That's all. But those extra tags make the format essentially closed and that's all Nikon, and the other makers, want.
The specs for these RAW formats could easily be published to allow
the public, and FOSS, to write their own software.
I want to use GNU/Linux to process my images and not junk Microslop/
Apphole.
The camera manufacturers are to blame and they should be assailed
with lawsuits, boycotts, and whatever else it would require to
cease their egregious exploitation.
But instead they have craven apologists like you that defend
their despicable actions.
Meantime, my New Year's Resolution is to tweak my Linux NAS
Linux should include code that would halt all execution
on the hardware of infidels.
What a load of totally opinionated irrelevant crap.
This computer is a tool. I create words. I create engineering drawings.
I create web sites.
This is a tool that allows me to do this.
In the UK we have another meaning of 'tool'.
It fits you exactly
chrisv wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off
on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by
gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates
who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
(snipped, unread)
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I saw
it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority brand
in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo on every block
while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:43:35 +0100, D wrote:
As a counter to that, I've started to drop a few "negros" in
conversations here and there out in town, and I also started to wear my
MAGA hat on the streets of Stockholm.
When I was growing up niggers preferred to be called Negroes. It's hard to keep track. Of course when I was growing up we also had polocks, wops,
kikes, and and other designations.
My mother was politically correct
before her time and would accuse my father of sounding like Hitler.
The punchline is she thought any male Negro over the age of five was going
to rape her. My father had no problems with niggers. They were just people until proven differently. I learned about hypocrisy and pretty words
early.
I don't have a MAGA hat. In the summer I have a NRA hat that I wear
hiking; that's almost as good.
On 2025-01-04, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 18:11, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job.
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of
understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses,
swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off >>>>> on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by >>>>> gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates >>>>> who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
(snipped, unread)
Let me guess: Quotes from cola advocates proving that, yes, they do
consider value when making a choice! How terrible!
That must mean that they would rather use Windows or Mac! Not.
-highhorse doesn't understand the importance of software freedom, so
he takes it out on his moral and intellectual superiors. He thinks
it's about being a "cheapskate" or a "freeloader". -highhorse claims
that "the open source nature of Linux tends to attractthe type of
persona who somehow believes that all avenues are one-way streets set
up to benefit him (and only him) as the true & deserving holy center
of the universe."
-highhorse is a stupid person and an asshole.
The thing about Linux is that it is indeed for the freeloader... but
it's also for the academic, the gamer, the student, the poor family that
can barely afford to eat and the average user who is content to buy
quality software but also enjoys using the free stuff. I would wager
that open-source enthusiasts actually pay more for software than Windows
or Mac users do, but that they do it by donating to it.
Many Windows users openly brag about pirating their software. And Microsoft basically gives away their office suite and OS to keep you in their ecosystem. I don't think I've bought a used computer in 15 years that didn't already have a Windows license built in — and they work all the way up to Windows 11. (And still, I don't use the crap.)
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built on
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and >>>>>>>> Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who
try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, >>>>>>>> and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky, >>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and >>>>>>>> offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the
desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the >>>>>>>> widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd
rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button >>>>>>> that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of
what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's >>>>>> how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree
with their design choice.
Its very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all the
better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I was sitting in a
supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open her car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she noticed that I was in the car, had
these wide eyes and couldn't think of doing anything but motion her
hands and say "sorry." I bet that she wouldn't have cared whatsoever had
I not been in the car. I looked at her and uttered something in French
saying that a sorry wouldn't be enough and got out of my car. When she
saw my size, she got into her car and cowered where her dad ripped into
her and asked whether she had actually damaged anything. Luckily for
both of them, she had only transferred her dad's cheap Dodge paint onto
my car and I was able to easily wipe it off.
On 04/01/2025 11:15, D wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply
means 'black'.
Are you saying that the woke establishment, and 99% of non-english
speakers in europe are uneducated?? ;)
Probably.
Nigger is to negro as Santa Claus is to Saint Nicholas. and goodbye is
I always try to explain the difference between nigger and negro, but
apparently that difference is beyond most, if not all people today. =/
to God be with you
He [sbd] wasn't attacking anyone using idiocy and lies.
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Around your family, you like to pretend that you're a good person,
don't you, -highhorse.
If only they knew what an asshole you are, how eager to attack decent, reasonable people you are.
On 1/3/2025 8:41 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I was sitting in a supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the
daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open her
car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she noticed
that I was in the car, had these wide eyes and couldn't think of doing
anything but motion her hands and say "sorry." I bet that she wouldn't
have cared whatsoever had I not been in the car. I looked at her and
uttered something in French saying that a sorry wouldn't be enough and
got out of my car. When she saw my size, she got into her car and
cowered where her dad ripped into her and asked whether she had
actually damaged anything. Luckily for both of them, she had only
transferred her dad's cheap Dodge paint onto my car and I was able to
easily wipe it off.
You almost had to beat up a girl half your size.
Linux made you tough...
On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:But LONG before any distinctive rise in CO2, which really dint start
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
Sea levels have already risen by 4 inches since 1993, and hard
science
has found the primary energy imbalance reason why: its
anthropometric.
Sea level rise has been 3mm/yr for the last 4000 years. Nothing has
changed
This source disagrees:
https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise >>>>
Also, sea level is *not* the same all over the world. The article
mentions that
as well.
It's an interesting read.
Well I will merely quote from the Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_sea_level
"Sea level has changed over geologic time. As the graph shows, sea
level today is very near the *lowest level ever attained* (the
lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250
million years ago)."
"Recently, it has become widely accepted that late Holocene, 3,000
calendar years ago to present, sea level was nearly stable prior to
an acceleration of rate of rise that is variously dated between 1850
and 1900 AD."
*Long before any CO2 excess was present*.
Yes, the rate of raise was nearly stable **before** the Industrial Age.
Which is the point: the contemporary acceleration in the rate of rise
is a change, and it is coincident with the advent of the Industrial Age.
until post WWII
So no correlation with CO2 at all.
Try not to be a climate denier
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
happening, adapting as best I can.
I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years
ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a
kid. For now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That
won't last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.
Well calling them Indians was a mistake made by some twat who thought
the world was a lot smaller than it turned out to be. And he had sailed
west to India...
An alarming number of words are mistranslations and corruptions.
My father was a racist - northern racist.
...
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this
small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables
and sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going
back most of that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions
when taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the
first killing frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in
2024, the first killing frost was on October 25th.
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
happening, adapting as best I can.
I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years
ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a
kid. For now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That
won't last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.
On 1/4/25 1:27 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I
saw it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority
brand in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really
strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo
on every block while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
In the early 80s I saw a Saab that LOOKED almost like a Ferrari -
deep deep met blue, just beautiful.
On 12/31/24 10:03 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 01:40:33 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
Biggest assholes where I live are Tesla owners, Dodge Hemi and Mustang
owners.
It used to be Land/Range Rover people but things have changed.
When you pul up behind a F-250 with imitation bull testicles dangling
from the trailer hitch you have a good idea what you're dealing with.
Got stuck in southern Kentucky once behind a Ford Courier with a
likely 1000 pound hog in the back. Every time it would twitch its ass
the whole vehicle would wobble :-)
That 'truck' had REAL balls hangin out the back ! :-)
On 04/01/2025 06:16, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:06:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Well calling them Indians was a mistake made by some twat who thought
On 04/01/2025 00:43, D wrote:
Negro has also become a symbol word.
You have to be really uneducated and thick not to know it simply means
'black'.
The best PC invention is latinx. It sounds like something you take
when you haven't shit in three days. I don't even think the latinx
people care for it. Indian is touchy too. Some are into 'Native
American', some aren't.
the world was a lot smaller than it turned out to be. And he had sailed
west to India...
An alarming number of words are mistranslations and corruptions.
On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, orThe point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
modern humanity being involved.
The odds are in favour of natural change and CO2 doesn't make any real difference at all,.
On 04/01/2025 07:56, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The USA is inherently isolationist ... would rather NOT
mess around with any other countries. There's "Here"
and "Over There".
Till some guy drives a truck into you and it turns out it's all about
'over there'
Like the UK in the 19th century, the average American has no idea how
much of his peace prosperity and wealth comes from hard noised
businessmen backed up by thin red lines of very tough men indeed,
operating in far off countries.
The UK learnt that there is no 'over there' after all.
On 2025-01-04, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
My father was a racist - northern racist.
Q: What's the difference between a northern racist and a
southern racist?
A: A southern racist doesn't mind black people living
close by as long as they don't get uppity.
A northern racist doesn't mind black people getting
uppity as long as they don't live close by.
On 2025-01-04 01:27, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I
saw it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority
brand in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really
strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo
on every block while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
Volvo used to be synonymous with safety and they were built to last
forever. It was their reputation and it was very much the reality. Once
Ford bought the company though, everything went downhill. Now the
Chinese own them and I can't help but notice that they're at the bottom
in the reliability index.
A guy I used to hang out with in the 2000s openly told me that he
pirated every game he played even though he could afford to buy them. In
his case, it seemed to be a force of habit though. Back when I was a >teenager, I don't think anyone bought a game at all. I was probably the
only one who ever did.
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or >man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are >willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
I've seen arguments made where it won't matter because CO2 is plant
food, so we'll be able to grow triple-canopy jungle everywhere which
will 'quickly' sequester the excess CO2 into wood .. but that misses
that there's more than just CO2 needed to grow trees, such as >nutrition+sun+rain, all in the correct proportions.
The funny part about Poles is that if you call any one of them a polock,
they probably won't react. The term for a Pole in Poland is Polak. Being
a Polak is a lot less insulting than being called a pole. As for kike,
the term only makes sense considering how they would sign their
documents on their arrival. They refused to draw an X since it was
similar to Christ's crucifix so they would draw a circle called a kikel instead.
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. >>>>>> Its very XP like.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and >>>>>>>>> Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who >>>>>>>>> try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, >>>>>>>>> and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky, >>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and >>>>>>>>> offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the >>>>>>>>> desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the >>>>>>>>> widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd >>>>>>>> rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button >>>>>>>> that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of >>>>>>> what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would >>>>>>> agree with their design choice.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all the
better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my parents
in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting though. I
used it for a moment a few months ago.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 03:45:13 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
ANYhow ... Bill didn't START as 'evil' ...
His letter to the computer club bitching about people using HIS BASIC was
a good start on evil.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or >>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basicThe point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
modern humanity being involved.
Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to adapt.
The odds are in favour of natural change and CO2 doesn't make any real
difference at all,.
Nonsense.
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation, extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
<snip>
But we weren't into etymology. I've read some theories about the
derivation of 'wop' but we just knew they all carried knives and were criminals. Even pizza was an exotic thing generally found in sleazy
barrooms. Some of the other slurs were easier to figure out.
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation, extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
On 2025-01-04, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
But we weren't into etymology. I've read some theories about the
derivation of 'wop' but we just knew they all carried knives and were
criminals. Even pizza was an exotic thing generally found in sleazy
barrooms. Some of the other slurs were easier to figure out.
I heard that "wop" stood for "without papers".
TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or >>man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are >>willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human >>population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
The West sure can't do anything about it. Southeast Asia drives climate change. They are building hundreds of coal-fired power plants every
year in China and India.
I'm rather astonished that this point almost never comes up in the
media, even given what liars they are.
I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is made - and the degree
of zealotry in punishing heretics.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:07:13 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 01:27, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 01:49:55 +0100, D wrote:
I think there's a sabb with an even wider one, but cannot find it. I
saw it in a garage many decades ago.
Oh, the 900. I've seen a few of those. Saabs always were a minority
brand in the US. I liked the old ones, but there were some really
strange beasts like the Sonnet II. I don't know why there was a Volvo
on every block while Saabs were driven by middle-aged lesbians.
Volvo used to be synonymous with safety and they were built to last
forever. It was their reputation and it was very much the reality. Once
Ford bought the company though, everything went downhill. Now the
Chinese own them and I can't help but notice that they're at the bottom
in the reliability index.
A friend's father gave him a new Volvo when he graduated college. He had
some sort of feeling that he would live as long as the Volvo or something
and hung on to it for years. After a minor accident he was irate when the insurance company paid out based on the value of the car, which was about $100, despite his paying for a policy that was designed for people with
rare vintage cars.
Andrzej Matuch wrote:
A guy I used to hang out with in the 2000s openly told me that he
pirated every game he played even though he could afford to buy them. In
his case, it seemed to be a force of habit though. Back when I was a
teenager, I don't think anyone bought a game at all. I was probably the
only one who ever did.
Some (most?) people are just takers. They don't give or pay unless
they must. If they can pirate something, they will. If asked to
donate, they decline.
On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and >>>>>>>>>> Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who >>>>>>>>>> try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, >>>>>>>>>> and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky, >>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar >>>>>>>>>> and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the >>>>>>>>>> desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the >>>>>>>>>> widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd >>>>>>>>> rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications'
button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
application will press the Windows key and then type the name of >>>>>>>> what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu.
That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I
would agree with their design choice.
menu. Its very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to
Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
the better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember
correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my
parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting
though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.
At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
On Sat, 04 Jan 2025 15:51:15 -0600, chrisv wrote:
TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or >>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are
willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
The West sure can't do anything about it. Southeast Asia drives climate
change. They are building hundreds of coal-fired power plants every
year in China and India.
I'm rather astonished that this point almost never comes up in the
media, even given what liars they are.
The coal trains rumble through here headed west. I believe they make a
dogleg up to BC since the good people of Washington state frown on
shipping coal from their ports. They're not building an atoll in the
middle of the Pacific with it.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or >>> man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basicThe point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
modern humanity being involved.
Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to adapt.
On 04/01/2025 20:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:So locusts arent natural either?
On 04/01/2025 15:58, TJ wrote:
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is itThe point is that far far more drastic changes have happened without
natural, or
man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
modern humanity being involved.
Nah, the point is that the effect of modern humanity have caused changes
far more rapidly than normal, leaving ecosystems/species little time to
adapt.
The odds are in favour of natural change and CO2 doesn't make any real >>> difference at all,.
Nonsense.
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
nutritious
vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
Hmm.
I wonder if you know you are looking through a religious lens?
On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still built >>>>>> on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora >>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who >>>>>>>>>>> try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the
basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky, >>>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar >>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the >>>>>>>>>>> desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, >>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. >>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications'
button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an >>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name >>>>>>>>> of what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. >>>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I
would agree with their design choice.
menu. Its very XP like.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to >>>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
the better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I remember
correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I bought my
parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as interesting
though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.
At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas KDE includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE is even
more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated. Additionally, it
is way too easy to break something specifically because of how open it
is to being modified by the user.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 15:48:18 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Indians ate them, every one
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 17:16:21 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I don't condemn him for wanting to make a buck.
The 'evil' bit comes in when HOW such money is made - and the degree
of zealotry in punishing heretics.
That's my problem with the current system. Entrepreneurs take risks, have better skills and should be rewarded for their efforts. However when the reward is counted in the billions somebody is getting screwed. When every dollar that isn't nailed down gravitates to the top, somebody is getting screwed.
A great example of the ethos is Biden giving Soros a medal. That's the guy who nearly destroyed the Bank of England with his manipulations.
Germany had 3000 back then, and now has 5000 per million.
On 1/4/25 9:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a >>>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora >>>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people >>>>>>>>>>>> who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the >>>>>>>>>>>> basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky, >>>>>>>>>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar >>>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the >>>>>>>>>>>> desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, >>>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. >>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' >>>>>>>>>>> button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an >>>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name >>>>>>>>>> of what they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. >>>>>>>>>> That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I >>>>>>>>>> would agree with their design choice.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to >>>>>>>>> Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
built on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all
the better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I
remember correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I
bought my parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as
interesting though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.
At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can
customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas
KDE includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE is
even more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated.
Additionally, it is way too easy to break something specifically
because of how open it is to being modified by the user.
Well, I never try to mod it very much - so no probs.
Biggest issues revolve around kinda faulty detection
of the mousepad. Had to go kinda deep and weird to
help there. Were also a few brightness-default issues
with the display (but that was X-related, not so
much XFCE). Had these issues with several distros,
they don't seem to like laptops. Probs with HPs and
with some Dells also (including the latest Fedora).
Anyway, LXDE is what does it for me. "Dated" is
JUST GREAT in my aesthetic :-)
On 05/01/2025 07:54, Physfitfreak wrote:
Germany had 3000 back then, and now has 5000 per million.
My sister's German ex-husband who probably supports AfD, said 'we have
now 50 professors of gender studies in Germany, and only two atom scientists!'
On 2025-01-03 20:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 18:37, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 11:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>>
On 03/01/2025 13:32, -hh wrote:
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I'm a farmer, the third generation of my family to own and operate this
small chunk of the world. Among other crops, we have raised vegetables
and sold them on a roadside farm stand since 1962. We have records going
back most of that time, with small notes about things like the weather.
50 years ago, while there were exceptions (there are ALWAYS exceptions
when taking about weather trends), we could pretty much count on the
first killing frost happening between September 20 and the 25th.
The last 10 years or so, that event has moved to October 5-10. And in
2024, the first killing frost was on October 25th.
So the climate IS changing. I've watched it do so. But is it natural, or man-made? In my layman's opinion, it's probably both. The basic
mechanism is probably natural, augmented by Man's contribution.
But what can we do about it? Little of any significance, unless we are willing to take drastic measures - kill off about half the human
population, give up modern power-hungry technology, that sort of thing.
I'm not willing to do that, and I don't think anyone else is, either. So
what I'll do is continue to take advantage of the changes that are
happening, adapting as best I can.
I can now grow fruits and vegetables that I couldn't dream of 50 years
ago. Better, long-season varieties that I couldn't grow when I was a
kid. For now, the climate is changing toward being better, here. That
won't last, but it'll probably last longer than I do.
On 2025-01-04, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-04 02:27, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-04, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 18:11, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
Its a tool like anything else, so use the right tool for the job. >>>>>>>>
Advocates in COLA have historically fight against the wisdom of >>>>>>>> understanding that everything has its own strengths & weaknesses, >>>>>>>> swimming against uses where other solutions are better.
Of course, -highhorse is lying. He's a trolling asshole who gets-off >>>>>>> on attacking decent, reasonable people. His solutions are better, by >>>>>>> gum, and he'll ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise.
According to the -highhorse troll, "Linux is what sloppy cheapskates >>>>>>> who cut corners prefer to use, rather than a quality product."
(snipped, unread)
Let me guess: Quotes from cola advocates proving that, yes, they do >>>>> consider value when making a choice! How terrible!
That must mean that they would rather use Windows or Mac! Not.
-highhorse doesn't understand the importance of software freedom, so >>>>> he takes it out on his moral and intellectual superiors. He thinks
it's about being a "cheapskate" or a "freeloader". -highhorse claims >>>>> that "the open source nature of Linux tends to attractthe type of
persona who somehow believes that all avenues are one-way streets set >>>>> up to benefit him (and only him) as the true & deserving holy center >>>>> of the universe."
-highhorse is a stupid person and an asshole.
The thing about Linux is that it is indeed for the freeloader... but
it's also for the academic, the gamer, the student, the poor family that >>>> can barely afford to eat and the average user who is content to buy
quality software but also enjoys using the free stuff. I would wager
that open-source enthusiasts actually pay more for software than Windows >>>> or Mac users do, but that they do it by donating to it.
Many Windows users openly brag about pirating their software. And Microsoft >>> basically gives away their office suite and OS to keep you in their
ecosystem. I don't think I've bought a used computer in 15 years that didn't
already have a Windows license built in — and they work all the way up to >>> Windows 11. (And still, I don't use the crap.)
A guy I used to hang out with in the 2000s openly told me that he
pirated every game he played even though he could afford to buy them. In
his case, it seemed to be a force of habit though. Back when I was a
teenager, I don't think anyone bought a game at all. I was probably the
only one who ever did.
That's been my experience as well. Since I didn't play games (even when I used Windows) and had no interest in most Windows software (what I did buy was on clearance or used) I didn't have much incentive to pirate software.
So changing to Linux didn't change my software buying habits at all. As a matter of fact, I think I've bought more Linux software than I ever bought
of Windows software (at least paid more).
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation, extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.
On 2025-01-04 10:31, DFS wrote:
On 1/3/2025 8:41 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I was sitting in a supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the
daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open her
car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she noticed
that I was in the car, had these wide eyes and couldn't think of
doing anything but motion her hands and say "sorry." I bet that she
wouldn't have cared whatsoever had I not been in the car. I looked at
her and uttered something in French saying that a sorry wouldn't be
enough and got out of my car. When she saw my size, she got into her
car and cowered where her dad ripped into her and asked whether she
had actually damaged anything. Luckily for both of them, she had only
transferred her dad's cheap Dodge paint onto my car and I was able to
easily wipe it off.
You almost had to beat up a girl half your size.
Linux made you tough...
Once again, you miss the point. Also, where did I suggest that I was
going to hurt her? Have you heard of insurance?
On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things
change.
I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to
be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around, shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they
weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to
be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we
have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s
to be headed our way.
On 1/4/2025 10:40 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 10:31, DFS wrote:
On 1/3/2025 8:41 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I was sitting in a supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the
daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open her
car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she noticed
that I was in the car, had these wide eyes and couldn't think of
doing anything but motion her hands and say "sorry." I bet that she
wouldn't have cared whatsoever had I not been in the car. I looked
at her and uttered something in French saying that a sorry wouldn't
be enough and got out of my car. When she saw my size, she got into
her car and cowered where her dad ripped into her and asked whether
she had actually damaged anything. Luckily for both of them, she had
only transferred her dad's cheap Dodge paint onto my car and I was
able to easily wipe it off.
You almost had to beat up a girl half your size.
Linux made you tough...
Once again, you miss the point. Also, where did I suggest that I was
going to hurt her? Have you heard of insurance?
Listen to all that aggressive, he-man language:
"sorry wouldn't be enough"
"she saw my size"
"got into her car and cowered"
"Luckily for both of them"
LMAO! Call the Mounties...
On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from
the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the whole
area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things change.
I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around, shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s to be headed our way.
TJ
On 2025-01-05 11:00, DFS wrote:
On 1/4/2025 10:40 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 10:31, DFS wrote:
On 1/3/2025 8:41 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I was sitting in a supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the
daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open
her car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she
noticed that I was in the car, had these wide eyes and couldn't
think of doing anything but motion her hands and say "sorry." I bet
that she wouldn't have cared whatsoever had I not been in the car.
I looked at her and uttered something in French saying that a sorry
wouldn't be enough and got out of my car. When she saw my size, she
got into her car and cowered where her dad ripped into her and
asked whether she had actually damaged anything. Luckily for both
of them, she had only transferred her dad's cheap Dodge paint onto
my car and I was able to easily wipe it off.
You almost had to beat up a girl half your size.
Linux made you tough...
Once again, you miss the point. Also, where did I suggest that I was
going to hurt her? Have you heard of insurance?
Listen to all that aggressive, he-man language:
"sorry wouldn't be enough"
"she saw my size"
"got into her car and cowered"
"Luckily for both of them"
LMAO! Call the Mounties...
Even with an explanation, you still don't get the point.
On 05/01/2025 00:38, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 15:48:18 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
And humans have had other effects, such as environmental degradation,
extinction of species due to over-hunting, eating up all the local
nutritious vegetation like a swarm of locusts.
Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time passing Where have all the megafauna gone?
Long time ago Where have all the megafauna gone?
Indians ate them, every one Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Except in all probability, they didn't...
I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used to
be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life around, shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for sure they
weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are to
be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort, we
have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the 1970s
to be headed our way.
The Big Snowy mountains are an island range with the highest point at
8,681'. The peak isn't much of a peak since it's a long, fairly flat
ridge. I'm not a fossil hunter but I picked up a rock and saw one of those worm-like marine fossils. There obviously had been some changes.
Yup, showing that despite the fanboy beliefs, FOSS is not a magic wand,
but merely just YA tool for capitalism to seek to increase profits with.
On 1/3/25 6:25 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 07:42:48 -0500, -hh wrote:
A lot of the sophistication (& differentiation) in PS was through its
use of Layers, particularly for making selective exposure adjustments.
All very well if you have a dozen or two dozen images to deal with, but
what if you have a thousand?
Are you claiming that no automation tools exist for Adobe Photoshop workflows, such as for batch automation?
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
The Big Snowy mountains are an island range with the highest point at
8,681'. The peak isn't much of a peak since it's a long, fairly flat
ridge. I'm not a fossil hunter but I picked up a rock and saw one of
those worm-like marine fossils. There obviously had been some changes.
I remember when one of our dads in the 4-H group took us to the Illinois
coal mines; just about any rock you cracked would reveal a fossil.
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025, TJ wrote:
On 2025-01-04 16:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 10:58:09 -0500, TJ wrote:
I don't know much about sea level changes. I live about 250 miles from >>>> the sea, so I don't have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I can
deny the changes in the climate right here where I live.
I live at around 3000', so no problem. However 13,000 years ago the
whole
area was the bottom of a lake whose shoreline was at 4200'. Things
change.
I'm closer to 1500', with rolling drumlins left behind by glaciers and
it's similar here. I've been told since childhood that our area used
to be under an "inland sea." There are tons of fossils of sea life
around, shellfish, trilobites, and the like, but I couldn't say for
sure they weren't imported by those glaciers from somewhere else.
One thing, anyway. If the climatologists are correct, then humans are
to be congratulated. Through global cooperation and diligent effort,
we have successfully staved off the Ice Age that was predicted in the
1970s to be headed our way.
TJ
Cooling is what we should all fear. Warming, if anything, has always
been correlated with civilizational advance and prosperity.
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
On 1/5/2025 1:27 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-05 11:00, DFS wrote:
On 1/4/2025 10:40 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 10:31, DFS wrote:
On 1/3/2025 8:41 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I was sitting in a supermarket parking lot in my new QX60 when the >>>>>> daughter of the guy who parked to the left of me decided to open
her car door wide and smack my vehicle. She freaked out when she
noticed that I was in the car, had these wide eyes and couldn't
think of doing anything but motion her hands and say "sorry." I
bet that she wouldn't have cared whatsoever had I not been in the
car. I looked at her and uttered something in French saying that a >>>>>> sorry wouldn't be enough and got out of my car. When she saw my
size, she got into her car and cowered where her dad ripped into
her and asked whether she had actually damaged anything. Luckily
for both of them, she had only transferred her dad's cheap Dodge
paint onto my car and I was able to easily wipe it off.
You almost had to beat up a girl half your size.
Linux made you tough...
Once again, you miss the point. Also, where did I suggest that I was
going to hurt her? Have you heard of insurance?
Listen to all that aggressive, he-man language:
"sorry wouldn't be enough"
"she saw my size"
"got into her car and cowered"
"Luckily for both of them"
LMAO! Call the Mounties...
Even with an explanation, you still don't get the point.
I think I get it: a door ding on your new QX60 made you snarl at a
little girl.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:
These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing someone >>> because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
If I want to kill a homo, why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? I mean,
it's just common sense really, and it also is good for the race.
I should be involuntarily committed to a residential psychiatric
facility.
On 2025-01-05 14:57, D wrote:
Cooling is what we should all fear. Warming, if anything, has always
been correlated with civilizational advance and prosperity.
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, so
I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a fuck
of a lot of fresh water
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 06:48:07 -0500, -hh wrote:
Yup, showing that despite the fanboy beliefs, FOSS is not a magic wand,
but merely just YA tool for capitalism to seek to increase profits with.
Only those who seem to think that “open source” is some kind of antonym of
“commercial” could have held such a belief.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 06:55:25 -0500, -hh wrote:
On 1/3/25 6:25 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 07:42:48 -0500, -hh wrote:
A lot of the sophistication (& differentiation) in PS was through its
use of Layers, particularly for making selective exposure adjustments.
All very well if you have a dozen or two dozen images to deal with, but
what if you have a thousand?
Are you claiming that no automation tools exist for Adobe Photoshop
workflows, such as for batch automation?
You tell me. What is there for Photoshop that allows it to deal
efficiently and reliably with thousands of images?
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time
in thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really
being used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than Scotland
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:20:53 -0500, DFS wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80
car : Porsche Panamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY
I'd go for a Cayman.
The base flat four is around $75k. I came close to a
Porsche once....
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than Scotland
... harping on the likes of Microsoft's greed.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
On 2025-01-05 02:54, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 9:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a >>>>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people >>>>>>>>>>>>> who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the >>>>>>>>>>>>> basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather >>>>>>>>>>>>> clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar >>>>>>>>>>>>> and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like >>>>>>>>>>>>> the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' >>>>>>>>>>>> button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an >>>>>>>>>>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name >>>>>>>>>>> of what they're looking for rather than select it from a >>>>>>>>>>> menu. That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE >>>>>>>>>>> so I would agree with their design choice.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely >>>>>>>>>> to Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
built on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3, all >>>>>>> the better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I
remember correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I
bought my parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as
interesting though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.
At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You can
customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult whereas
KDE includes just about everything you would need immediately. XFCE
is even more customizable, but I find it to be somewhat dated.
Additionally, it is way too easy to break something specifically
because of how open it is to being modified by the user.
Well, I never try to mod it very much - so no probs.
Biggest issues revolve around kinda faulty detection
of the mousepad. Had to go kinda deep and weird to
help there. Were also a few brightness-default issues
with the display (but that was X-related, not so
much XFCE). Had these issues with several distros,
they don't seem to like laptops. Probs with HPs and
with some Dells also (including the latest Fedora).
Anyway, LXDE is what does it for me. "Dated" is
JUST GREAT in my aesthetic :-)
I used to not have a problem with things that were dated either since
they used less RAM and ended up being more responsive, but I started to
miss certain subtle additions in newer interfaces. With 32GB of RAM, you
stop being so anal about high memory usage too.
On 1/5/25 8:22 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-05 02:54, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 9:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 17:13, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/4/25 10:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-04 03:32, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/3/25 3:10 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/01/2025 13:56, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-03 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Fairy Nuff. I have no idea what it is now, but MATE is still >>>>>>>>> built on gnome3 libraries AFAIK
On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a >>>>>>>>>>> menu. Its very XP like.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>
I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Nobara,
is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who try out
Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> basics, and they
will likely find that the way extensions work is rather >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clunky,
especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar and offers a
ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the desktop
effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the widgets
in KDE actually work as they should.
The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather
have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' >>>>>>>>>>>>> button that
brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for >>>>>>>>>>>> an application will press the Windows key and then type the >>>>>>>>>>>> name of what they're looking for rather than select it from >>>>>>>>>>>> a menu. That's how I do it whether I use Windows, GNOME or >>>>>>>>>>>> KDE so I would agree with their design choice.
And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely >>>>>>>>>>> to Linux, I didn't have to relearn very much at all..
We are talking about GNOME _now_ not then.
And was a sort of fork of gnome2 desktop
I always thought that MATE used GTK2. If it indeed uses GTK3,
all the better.
GTK3 is a little better.
MATE isn't horrible, but it's still not my fave.
LXDE is my fave - JUST ENOUGH GUI. It's small
and it's sane and does what you need the way
you'd expect. Somewhere between the Win-2k
and XP experience.
DID like Win-2K ... still have it in a VM and
DO use it sometimes. Still ran 8/16 ... a big
advantage for people who love 'antique'-ware.
Nice simple GUI with few frills.
I haven't used much of LXDE but I know that I liked it. If I
remember correctly, that was what I installed on the computer I
bought my parents in the 2000s. I'm surprised that LXQT isn't as
interesting though. I used it for a moment a few months ago.
LXQt ... just ain't the same somehow - different feel.
Was still buggy too when I was fooling around with it.
'PCManFM'-qt also wasn't as friendly.
Anyway, my choices are LXDE or, second, XFCE. I do not
care for 'eye candy' or excessive 'integration' much.
KDE obviously went in the other direction, almost may
as well buy Winders.
At least with Linux there are MANY choices for desktops.
It's the customization options of KDE that got me interested. You
can customize GNOME to an extent, but it's needlessly difficult
whereas KDE includes just about everything you would need
immediately. XFCE is even more customizable, but I find it to be
somewhat dated. Additionally, it is way too easy to break something
specifically because of how open it is to being modified by the user.
Well, I never try to mod it very much - so no probs.
Biggest issues revolve around kinda faulty detection
of the mousepad. Had to go kinda deep and weird to
help there. Were also a few brightness-default issues
with the display (but that was X-related, not so
much XFCE). Had these issues with several distros,
they don't seem to like laptops. Probs with HPs and
with some Dells also (including the latest Fedora).
Anyway, LXDE is what does it for me. "Dated" is
JUST GREAT in my aesthetic :-)
I used to not have a problem with things that were dated either since
they used less RAM and ended up being more responsive, but I started
to miss certain subtle additions in newer interfaces. With 32GB of
RAM, you stop being so anal about high memory usage too.
Maybe I'm from just too far back ... can't stand
wasting a byte or cycle for more than the basics :-)
Anyway, I don't like 'desktop integration' or eye
candy, so LXDE seems to be 'the basics' of a
bearable GUI. Some of the 'tiled' ones work, but
are just too ugly and clunky IMHO. Some die-hards
will disagree there ... and then there's the
terminal/scripts-only fascists ......
I remember when the i4004 was the most neat-o new
thing, lots of micro-controllers with BYTES of RAM.
Creates a mindset.
On 2025-01-05 04:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/01/2025 07:54, Physfitfreak wrote:
Germany had 3000 back then, and now has 5000 per million.
My sister's German ex-husband who probably supports AfD, said 'we
have now 50 professors of gender studies in Germany, and only two atom
scientists!'
Now that Germans and Brits can no longer safely go to a Christmas
celebration and have to worry about their wives being raped and their daughters groomed by gangs, I wonder if they _finally_ have the courage
to admit that their multicultural experiment not only failed but is destroying their culture altogether.
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in >>>> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being >>>> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in >>>> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being >>>> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling >>>>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a >>>>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in >>>>> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being >>>>> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built decades ago.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways — on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post on Monday.
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been erected
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>>There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian >>>>>> tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than >>>>>> Scotland
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling >>>>>>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a >>>>>>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the >>>>>>> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in >>>>>>> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being >>>>>>> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D >>>>
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built decades ago. >>
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the
north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is
minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which maintains >>> facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways — on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian >>>>> tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than >>>>> Scotland
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling >>>>>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a >>>>>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the >>>>>> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in >>>>>> thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being >>>>>> used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across the region. >> Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been erected decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the
north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is
minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways — on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be eradicated too.
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>>>There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian >>>>>>> tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than >>>>>>> Scotland
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling >>>>>>>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a >>>>>>>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the >>>>>>>> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D >>>>>
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the
north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is
minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which maintains >>>> facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways — on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do
you, Chris?
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>>>>There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and Siberian >>>>>>>> tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely worse than >>>>>>>> Scotland
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of fresh >>>>>>>>>>> water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With cooling >>>>>>>>>>> though, there would be a decreased availability of food in general, >>>>>>>>>>> so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. That's a >>>>>>>>>> fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly
inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and turn the >>>>>>>>> continent-like country into something inhabitable for the first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting tundra :-D >>>>>>
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been erected >>>> decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the
north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is
minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases. >>>>>
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways — on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do
you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>> Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of >>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the
first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely
worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting
tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military- >>>>>> sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in >>>>>> particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across >>>>>> the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and >>>>>> in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built >>>>>> decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been
erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which >>>>>> maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason >>>>>> Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are >>>>>> growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post >>>>>> on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do >>> you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country,
bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions. The climate _might_ be warming
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a shit? Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people looking
to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and another shot
at life. Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of resources which
have not yet been exploited. And here _you_ are, Chris, concerned that
living there might increase the temperature in one hundred years by
another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by a millimetre.
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then. Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they purchased tell you. We already know that the "global cooling," "global warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to enrich
the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot of the floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were manufactured
not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the water out of certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with flooding.
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>> Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of >>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the
first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely
worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting
tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military- >>>>>> sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in >>>>>> particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across >>>>>> the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and >>>>>> in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built >>>>>> decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been
erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which >>>>>> maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason >>>>>> Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are >>>>>> growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post >>>>>> on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do >>> you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country,
bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions.
The climate _might_ be warming
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a shit?
Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people looking
to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and another shot
at life.
Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of resources which
have not yet been exploited.
And here _you_ are, Chris, concerned that
living there might increase the temperature in one hundred years by
another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by a millimetre.
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then.
Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they
purchased tell you.
We already know that the "global cooling," "global
warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to enrich
the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot of the floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were manufactured
not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the water out of certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with flooding.
On 2025-01-07 19:30, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>>> Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability >>>>>>>>>>>>> of fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the >>>>>>>>>>> first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely >>>>>>>>>> worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting
tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military- >>>>>>> sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, >>>>>>> in particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings >>>>>>> across the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, >>>>>>> and in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built >>>>>>> decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been
erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which >>>>>>> maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason >>>>>>> Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are
growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post
on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or
two. Do
you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country,
bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions. The climate _might_ be warming
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a
shit? Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people
looking to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and
another shot at life. Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of
resources which have not yet been exploited. And here _you_ are,
Chris, concerned that living there might increase the temperature in
one hundred years by another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by
a millimetre.
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then. Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they
purchased tell you. We already know that the "global cooling," "global
warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to
enrich the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot
of the floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were
manufactured not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the
water out of certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with
flooding.
What the fuck are you talking about? What structures? That's bullshit, rightwing propaganda.
On 1/7/25 1:30 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>>> Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of >>>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the >>>>>>>>>>> first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile.
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely >>>>>>>>>> worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting
tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military- >>>>>>> sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in
particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across
the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and
in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built >>>>>>> decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been
erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which >>>>>>> maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason >>>>>>> Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are
growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post
on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do >>>> you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country,
bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions.
Its uninhabited for a reason. Do you really think that if it was +10F
warmer that all of the reasons are going to suddenly disappear?
The climate _might_ be warming
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a shit?
Methane is known to be a pretty nasty greenhouse gas: you're looking at
a positive feedback loop. The observation on infrastructure is that it
is all going to be impacted & incur expenses even to maintain status quo without any "everyone moves North" growth like you're suggesting.
Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people looking
to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and another shot
at life.
Moot point when domestic policy won't let anyone in, even if these new
lands were to magically be opened up.
Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of resources which
have not yet been exploited.
"Suddenly"? Oil fields at Prudhoe Bay started in the 1960's, before you
were born. And at 70°N, it's well above the Arctic Circle (66°34′N).
And here _you_ are, Chris, concerned that
living there might increase the temperature in one hundred years by
another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by a millimetre.
Except that there's already had +4" sea level rise since 1993...
...and the rate of temperature change is known to be increasing: the
trend in 2000 was for +1.5°C by 2041, but the post-1995 trendline shows
that that same +1.5°C datum is expected much earlier, in 2030. Note too that as of 2024, we're already most of the way there, at +1.36°C datum:
<https://x.com/WeatherProf/status/1876273745482121550/photo/1>
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then.
Which are waterfront on an *ocean*? Likewise, eliminate from
consideration all of those places which have built and/or raised seawalls/barriers/etc, such as New York City, London, Venice...
Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they
purchased tell you.
One of my personal "To Do" projects is a 30+ year longitudinal photo
essay of a concrete jetty built on bedrock: it used to stand clear &
dry at high tide, but its now awash. Convince me on what's changed that wasn't sea level rise.
We already know that the "global cooling," "global
warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to enrich
the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot of the
floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were manufactured
not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the water out of
certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with flooding.
Which explains the flooding channelized through a city, but not that the rainfall amounts have become pretty biblical. For Valenia City, Spain,
the upstream town was Turis, which got 184.6mm in just one hour: that's
over 7 inches. Likewise, its 24 hour total was 771mm (30"+).
-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 1/7/25 1:30 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>>>> Siberian
On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the >>>>>>>>>>>> first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile. >>>>>>>>>>>>
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely >>>>>>>>>>> worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting >>>>>>>>>> tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military- >>>>>>>> sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in
particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across
the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and
in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built >>>>>>>> decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been
erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which
maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason >>>>>>>> Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are
growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post
on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. Do >>>>> you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country,
bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions.
Its uninhabited for a reason. Do you really think that if it was +10F
warmer that all of the reasons are going to suddenly disappear?
The climate _might_ be warming
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a shit?
Methane is known to be a pretty nasty greenhouse gas: you're looking at
a positive feedback loop. The observation on infrastructure is that it
is all going to be impacted & incur expenses even to maintain status quo
without any "everyone moves North" growth like you're suggesting.
Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people looking >>> to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and another shot >>> at life.
Moot point when domestic policy won't let anyone in, even if these new
lands were to magically be opened up.
Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of resources which
have not yet been exploited.
"Suddenly"? Oil fields at Prudhoe Bay started in the 1960's, before you
were born. And at 70°N, it's well above the Arctic Circle (66°34′N).
And here _you_ are, Chris, concerned that
living there might increase the temperature in one hundred years by
another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by a millimetre.
Except that there's already had +4" sea level rise since 1993...
...and the rate of temperature change is known to be increasing: the
trend in 2000 was for +1.5°C by 2041, but the post-1995 trendline shows
that that same +1.5°C datum is expected much earlier, in 2030. Note too
that as of 2024, we're already most of the way there, at +1.36°C datum:
<https://x.com/WeatherProf/status/1876273745482121550/photo/1>
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then.
Which are waterfront on an *ocean*? Likewise, eliminate from
consideration all of those places which have built and/or raised
seawalls/barriers/etc, such as New York City, London, Venice...
Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they
purchased tell you.
One of my personal "To Do" projects is a 30+ year longitudinal photo
essay of a concrete jetty built on bedrock: it used to stand clear &
dry at high tide, but its now awash. Convince me on what's changed that
wasn't sea level rise.
We already know that the "global cooling," "global
warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to enrich
the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot of the
floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were manufactured
not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the water out of
certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with flooding.
Which explains the flooding channelized through a city, but not that the
rainfall amounts have become pretty biblical. For Valenia City, Spain,
the upstream town was Turis, which got 184.6mm in just one hour: that's
over 7 inches. Likewise, its 24 hour total was 771mm (30"+).
This Andrzej guy is what I call a "frog in water set to boil" troll.
He's done this before. Start out reasonable, and slowly ramp up the
bullshit, to prolong the engagement.
Another climate-change rationalizer?
He's also done some racist posts; I should have plonked his smarmy ass
days ago.
Adios. You've been down this road before.
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
On 2025-01-07 13:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
You've just demonstrated the general idiocy of the woke: agree with
whatever retarded thing I have to say or I will block you.
Just once in your life, be a man.
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:20:53 -0500, DFS wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY
I'd go for a Cayman. The base flat four is around $75k. I came close to a Porsche once. I went in to buy a 914, didn't like it, and bought an Audi instead.
It was summed up years later when I went in to kick the tires on
the Pontiac Fiero. The salesman who had sold me a Firebird a couple of
years earlier yelled across the showroom floor "They don't make that in
your size".
On 1/5/2025 9:18 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:20:53 -0500, DFS wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY
You gotta love that voice!
I'd go for a Cayman. The base flat four is around $75k. I came close to
a Porsche once. I went in to buy a 914, didn't like it, and bought an
Audi instead.
I'd like the Cayman for short local trips on winding roads, but it's way
too small for an out-of-state trip.
It was summed up years later when I went in to kick the tires on the
Pontiac Fiero. The salesman who had sold me a Firebird a couple of
years earlier yelled across the showroom floor "They don't make that in
your size".
Fiero was for hobbit-sized people.
What the fuck are you talking about? What structures? That's bullshit,
rightwing propaganda.
No, Carlos, telling the world that we will all be under water unless we give lots of money to some cabal of elites is what's propaganda and complete bullshit.
On 2025-01-07 13:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
You've just demonstrated the general idiocy of the woke: agree with whatever retarded thing I have to say or I will block you.
Just once in your life, be a man.
On 2025-01-07 17:35, chrisv wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
He won't because he doesn't believe in consuming information as much as accept whatever narrative the homosexuals on CNN and MSNBC feed him daily. There's a reason both networks get record low ratings now: even devout Democrats have noticed that most of what they say is a lie.
On 2025-01-07 16:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 1/7/25 1:30 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:14, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 11:26, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-07 08:43, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>>>>>>
On 2025-01-06 16:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse >>>>>>>>>>> code:
On 06/01/2025 19:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-06 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/01/2025 13:49, Andrzej Matuch wrote:Not wrong there. In fact huge areas of Canadian, Alaskan and >>>>>>>>>>>> Siberian
The way they sell it, warming means a lesser availability of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fresh
water. Obviously, this would result in people dying. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cooling
though, there would be a decreased availability of food in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general,
so I don't see how one is worse than the other.
Except the narrative says that all of greenland will melt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
fuck of a lot of fresh water
If all of Greenland will melt, the people who are suddenly >>>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenienced by the world's warming could move there and >>>>>>>>>>>>> turn the
continent-like country into something inhabitable for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> first time in
thousands of years. I imagine that as a result of it never >>>>>>>>>>>>> really being
used for agriculture, that land is incredibly fertile. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
tundra would be really quite nice places to live. Scarcely >>>>>>>>>>>> worse than
Scotland
Except for buildings and equipment sinking into the melting >>>>>>>>>>> tundra :-D
There is soil underneath all of that, Chris.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-military-
sees-growing-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/
Climate change is rapidly altering the Arctic landscape, in
particular the
permafrost that serves as a foundation for buildings across
the region.
Warming temperatures are thawing out the frozen ground, and
in the process
it is threatening to unsettle structures that were built
decades ago.
"... that were built decades ago." How many buildings have been >>>>>>>> erected
decades ago in the waste known as Greenland? Even in Quebec where the >>>>>>>> north is settled to a degree, the amount of buildings in existence is >>>>>>>> minimal because the population is itself tiny.
That's particularly worrisome for the U.S. military, which
maintains
facilities across the Arctic region. And it's one reason
Hicks embarked on
a two-day tour of the nation’s northernmost military bases.
“Building and maintaining infrastructure — like runways —
on permafrost
presents unique challenges for Arctic nations — which are
growing with the
effects of climate change,” Hicks wrote in a Twitter post
on Monday.
Once there is no longer permafrost, those challenges will be
eradicated too.
And replacement structures will be built/rebuilt.
And that doesn't include methane release.
I don't mind if the people building new structure fart a time or two. >>>>>> Do
you, Chris?
Cut the patronizing crap.
I can't help but patronize here. You're looking at a gigantic country, >>>> bigger than Europe, which is more or less uninhabited at the moment
because of its unfavourable conditions.
Its uninhabited for a reason. Do you really think that if it was +10F
warmer that all of the reasons are going to suddenly disappear?
The climate _might_ be warmingMethane is known to be a pretty nasty greenhouse gas: you're looking at
with the result being an uninhabited continent of a country becoming
viable for life, and you're concerned that the few buildings it has
might be destroyed and/or replaced, as if that hasn't happened in the
West before, and that some methane might be released. Who gives a shit? >>>
a positive feedback loop. The observation on infrastructure is that it
is all going to be impacted & incur expenses even to maintain status quo >>> without any "everyone moves North" growth like you're suggesting.
Suddenly, you have a place where you can send the useless people looking >>>> to be refugees in the West, if they really want freedom and another shot >>>> at life.
Moot point when domestic policy won't let anyone in, even if these new
lands were to magically be opened up.
Suddenly, you have access to a wide variety of resources which
have not yet been exploited.
"Suddenly"? Oil fields at Prudhoe Bay started in the 1960's, before you >>> were born. And at 70°N, it's well above the Arctic Circle (66°34′N). >>>
And here _you_ are, Chris, concerned that
living there might increase the temperature in one hundred years by
another 0.1 degree and increase the sea level by a millimetre.
Except that there's already had +4" sea level rise since 1993...
...and the rate of temperature change is known to be increasing: the
trend in 2000 was for +1.5°C by 2041, but the post-1995 trendline shows >>> that that same +1.5°C datum is expected much earlier, in 2030. Note too >>> that as of 2024, we're already most of the way there, at +1.36°C datum: >>>
<https://x.com/WeatherProf/status/1876273745482121550/photo/1>
Funny enough, there are lots of buildings erected over a century ago
that are surrounded by the same height of water today than they were
back then.
Which are waterfront on an *ocean*? Likewise, eliminate from
consideration all of those places which have built and/or raised
seawalls/barriers/etc, such as New York City, London, Venice...
Nothing has changed regardless of what some scientists they
purchased tell you.
One of my personal "To Do" projects is a 30+ year longitudinal photo
essay of a concrete jetty built on bedrock: it used to stand clear &
dry at high tide, but its now awash. Convince me on what's changed that >>> wasn't sea level rise.
We already know that the "global cooling," "global
warming" and finally "climate change" garbage is a scam meant to enrich >>>> the people at the top even more. We are also aware that a lot of the
floodings that have happened recently, like in Spain, were manufactured >>>> not natural. If you get rid of the structures holding the water out of >>>> certain areas, it's obvious that you will end up with flooding.
Which explains the flooding channelized through a city, but not that the >>> rainfall amounts have become pretty biblical. For Valenia City, Spain,
the upstream town was Turis, which got 184.6mm in just one hour: that's
over 7 inches. Likewise, its 24 hour total was 771mm (30"+).
This Andrzej guy is what I call a "frog in water set to boil" troll.
He's done this before. Start out reasonable, and slowly ramp up the
bullshit, to prolong the engagement.
Another climate-change rationalizer?
He's also done some racist posts; I should have plonked his smarmy ass
days ago.
You've lived in my killfile on so many occasions that I don't even know why I ever bother expecting a post from you that isn't effeminate. What goes around comes around. Your posts are hereby filtered on my side too, and I probably won't change my decision in the future.
On 1/7/25 5:35 PM, chrisv wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
Where its so-called "quality" is that its already been debunked:
<https://skepticalscience.com/climate-the-movie-a-hot-mess-of-cold-myths.html>
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
Why waste 80 minutes watching something when a 3 minute Google search affords one the salient insight on its lack of veracity?
-hh
He's also done some racist posts;
What the fuck are you talking about? What structures? That's bullshit,
rightwing propaganda.
No, Carlos, telling the world that we will all be under water unless we
give lots of money to some cabal of elites is what's propaganda and
complete bullshit.
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:
On 1/7/25 5:35 PM, chrisv wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
Where its so-called "quality" is that its already been debunked:
<https://skepticalscience.com/climate-the-movie-a-hot-mess-of-cold-myths.html>
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
Why waste 80 minutes watching something when a 3 minute Google search
affords one the salient insight on its lack of veracity?
-hh
Actually, that is the best proof you can find that the movie is on to something. If it would be mainstream, no one would bother writing a
line, or if it would be made by the climate royalty, it would be hyped
by CNN & Co.
Thank you, now I will definitely watch it! =)
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Show me such a post or stfu.
On 08/01/2025 12:19, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Anyone who says someone is racist, is a racist.
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Show me such a post or stfu.
That is someone who thinks in terms of race.
And discriminates on the grounds of 'race'.
On 1/7/2025 2:07 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
You've just demonstrated the general idiocy of the woke: agree with
whatever retarded thing I have to say or I will block you.
Just once in your life, be a man.
"You've been down this road before"
He wants you to cuddle him and croon in his ear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnlngZQqSuQ
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
On 2025-01-07 13:44, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
You've just demonstrated the general idiocy of the woke: agree with
whatever retarded thing I have to say or I will block you.
Just once in your life, be a man.
Please Andrzej, note that Chris is an indoctrinated, 100% pure bred socialist. He will never stray from the woke narrative. I've blocked him
a long time ago, and so should you for your peace of mind.
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:
On 1/7/25 5:35 PM, chrisv wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Adios. You've been down this road before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOAUsvVhgsU
Here's an excellant documentary on climate change. An hour and 20
minutes of quality information.
Where its so-called "quality" is that its already been debunked:
<https://skepticalscience.com/climate-the-movie-a-hot-mess-of-cold-
myths.html>
I'd bet money that Chris A won't watch it.
Why waste 80 minutes watching something when a 3 minute Google search
affords one the salient insight on its lack of veracity?
-hh
Actually, that is the best proof you can find that the movie is on to something. If it would be mainstream, no one would bother writing a
line, or if it would be made by the climate royalty, it would be hyped
by CNN & Co.
Thank you, now I will definitely watch it! =)
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:11:07 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/5/2025 9:18 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:20:53 -0500, DFS wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY
You gotta love that voice!
I'm a little vague on dates in that era but I saw her in a roadhouse on
the Albany-Schenectady road. It must have been fairly early in her career since the stage was only a raised platform about 4' high, with people
walking up to give her pints of Southern Comfort.
I'd go for a Cayman. The base flat four is around $75k. I came close to
a Porsche once. I went in to buy a 914, didn't like it, and bought an
Audi instead.
I'd like the Cayman for short local trips on winding roads, but it's way
too small for an out-of-state trip.
That is a problem. Depending on the season I tend to have camping gear, snowshoes, bows, axes, coveralls, trekking poles, a bicycle, and sometimes even an Advanced Elements inflatable kayay stuffed in the back of the
Yaris.
It was summed up years later when I went in to kick the tires on the
Pontiac Fiero. The salesman who had sold me a Firebird a couple of
years earlier yelled across the showroom floor "They don't make that in
your size".
Fiero was for hobbit-sized people.
I kept the Firebird. That's a case in point. I had a '73 Mustang and when
a friend and I went grocery shopping and came out with a groaning cart, I popped the trunk. She looked at it and said "I don't think this is the
sort of car a guy interested in a woman with kids drives." She was right. After '73 Ford came out with the Mustang II kiddie car. I switched to Camaros. Comfortable, but the same ridiculous trunk. Then in '82 my
fondest dreams came true, the Camaro/Firebird line became hatchbacks. The Firebird had retractible headlights aand I thought it was better looking.
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're thinking in terms of*bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole group of people based on race.
On 1/8/2025 1:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 22:11:07 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/5/2025 9:18 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:20:53 -0500, DFS wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY
You gotta love that voice!
I'm a little vague on dates in that era but I saw her in a roadhouse on
the Albany-Schenectady road. It must have been fairly early in her career
since the stage was only a raised platform about 4' high, with people
walking up to give her pints of Southern Comfort.
Awesome. I saw Iggy Pop in college.
I'd go for a Cayman. The base flat four is around $75k. I came close to >>>> a Porsche once. I went in to buy a 914, didn't like it, and bought an
Audi instead.
I'd like the Cayman for short local trips on winding roads, but it's way >>> too small for an out-of-state trip.
That is a problem. Depending on the season I tend to have camping gear,
snowshoes, bows, axes, coveralls, trekking poles, a bicycle, and
sometimes even an Advanced Elements inflatable kayay stuffed in the
back of the Yaris.
At 75, you're still kicking ass. Knee or hip problems? I'm just 62 but
I think I'm getting arthritis in my right hip.
Camaros were always great-looking. Wikipedia says Chevy shut down production in late 2023.
On 08/01/2025 13:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're thinking
in terms of*bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole group of people >> based on race.
I'll leave that to the coloured folks who see themselves as distinct and oppressed by 'the white folks'
'White privilege' is racist. 'Black lives matter' is racist. As are the
black police association and the black lawyer association. And
fundamental Islam.
The list is endless.
At 75, you're still kicking ass. Knee or hip problems? I'm just 62 but
I think I'm getting arthritis in my right hip.
On 1/8/25 9:32 AM, DFS wrote:
On 1/8/2025 1:13 AM, rbowman wrote:
<snip>
At 75, you're still kicking ass. Knee or hip problems? I'm just 62 but >> I think I'm getting arthritis in my right hip.
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're
thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole
group of people based on race.
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're
thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole
group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a
group of people special privileges based on race.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid 'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of color'? That means they're colored, right?
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 08/01/2025 13:59, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're thinking
in terms of*bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole group of people
based on race.
I'll leave that to the coloured folks who see themselves as distinct and
oppressed by 'the white folks'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzlLi5jX_C4
Sam Cooke [What a] Wonderful World
A more complete view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56u6g0POvo0
Devo - "Beautiful World"
'White privilege' is racist. 'Black lives matter' is racist. As are the
black police association and the black lawyer association. And
fundamental Islam.
The list is endless.
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid
'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of color'? >> That means they're colored, right?
Why don't you walk up to a "colored man" and call them that? A good test!
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid 'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of color'? That means they're colored, right?
On 08/01/2025 12:19, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Anyone who says someone is racist, is a racist.
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Show me such a post or stfu.
That is someone who thinks in terms of race. And discriminates on the
grounds of 'race'
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're
thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole
group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a
group of people special privileges based on race.
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech DFS 62 birth certificate Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-08 08:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/01/2025 12:19, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>>>> On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Anyone who says someone is racist, is a racist.He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Show me such a post or stfu.
That is someone who thinks in terms of race. And discriminates on the
grounds of 'race'
The worst part is that people who are objectively faggots, also known as
"the left," are pushing the narrative that there is no race but the
human race. With that in mind, how the heck is it even possible to be a
racist? Since he is dim-witted in addition to taking it up the ass, he
believes in two contradictory truths simultaneously: everyone is a
racist but there is no such thing as race.
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?
On 08/01/2025 18:05, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:I call them 'mate'
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid >>> 'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of color'? >>> That means they're colored, right?
Why don't you walk up to a "colored man" and call them that? A good test!
On 08/01/2025 12:19, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:Anyone who says someone is racist, is a racist.
On 07/01/2025 21:31, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
He's also done some racist posts;
So what?
So have you.
Show me such a post or stfu.
That is someone who thinks in terms of race. And discriminates on the
grounds of 'race'
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech DFS 62 birth certificate Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
some dumb fsck wrote:
SUV : Infiniti QX80 car : Porsche Panamera
I'd go for a Cayman.
Andrzej Matuch wrote:
No, Carlos, telling the world that we will all be under water unless we
give lots of money to some cabal of elites is what's propaganda and
complete bullshit.
Yes.
The impact of a putative net zero campaign will massively outweigh a 1
C rise and a sea level rise of four inches.
In both cost and environmental destruction
a Rolls-Royce Ghost would be great for cruising,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote:
No, Carlos, telling the world that we will all be under water unless we
give lots of money to some cabal of elites is what's propaganda and
complete bullshit.
Worse yet are the mandates that take away our freedoms.
Everyone knows that they want to be able to shut off our cars
remotely, to restrict our travel freedoms, right? And control when we
run our air conditions, and what we eat, and all sorts of other
things. Utter tyranny, is the plan.
Yes.
The impact of a putative net zero campaign will massively outweigh a 1
°C rise and a sea level rise of four inches.
In both cost and environmental destruction
I agree. There is no answer to the problems with mining. There is no
answer to the problems from being utterly dependant upon communist
China for everything from minerals to the completed car or solar panel
or wind turbine or power transformer.
The West takes a massive hit, while China laughs and builds a hundred
coal plants every year. They are happy to take our money and make
everything for us, until we are as dependant and as weak as babies.
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
Race isn't a nature concept, its obviously a sociological and political construct, and fluid to some extent.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who knows. The SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jan 2025 16:27:12 -0600, chrisv wrote:
a Rolls-Royce Ghost would be great for cruising,
Why you wanna cruise? You wanna pick up bitches?
Ain't no bitch gonna want to get on with your sorry ass.
Haaaaaa, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
You've bragged about sexual contact with underage girls, you obviously
can't handle mature women, so I'm gonna say chrisv is above you.
On 1/8/25 12:13 PM, DFS wrote:
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech
DFS 62 birth certificate
Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
And n=15.
Good guess for me.
I could put together an anonymous SurveyMonkey poll if folks think it
was worthwhile for this ...but it is just idle curiosity on my part for
just how old we surviving USENET posters have become.
Could also delve into other demographics too, such as how many are
retired (my guess: ~40%?), or what OSs they really use where <g>. Of course, being self-reported & unconfirmed, its only as reliable as its participants.
A more evolved, more capable, more enduring Modern Human!
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who knows.
The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't want
to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is nothing
better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better than what
the US produces, but they're just as dim.
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 13:03:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Race isn't a nature concept, its obviously a sociological and political
construct, and fluid to some extent.
If you have a E-V38 Y chromosome I'm guessing you can't pass for a Swede.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and >certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland feasible.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Andrzej Matuch wrote:
No, Carlos, telling the world that we will all be under water unless we
give lots of money to some cabal of elites is what's propaganda and
complete bullshit.
Worse yet are the mandates that take away our freedoms.
Everyone knows that they want to be able to shut off our cars
remotely, to restrict our travel freedoms, right?
And control when we run our air conditions, ...
... and what we eat, and all sorts of other
things. Utter tyranny, is the plan.
Yes.
The impact of a putative net zero campaign will massively outweigh a 1
°C rise and a sea level rise of four inches.
In both cost and environmental destruction
I agree. There is no answer to the problems with mining.
There is no
answer to the problems from being utterly dependant upon communist
China for everything from minerals to the completed car or solar panel
or wind turbine or power transformer.
The West takes a massive hit, while China laughs and builds a hundred
coal plants every year. They are happy to take our money and make
everything for us, until we are as dependant and as weak as babies.
The underage girls aren't yet mature enough to realize how much of a
loser the pedophile that was hitting on them is.
On 1/8/2025 3:05 PM, -hh wrote:
On 1/8/25 12:13 PM, DFS wrote:
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech
DFS 62 birth certificate
Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
And n=15.
Good guess for me.
I could put together an anonymous SurveyMonkey poll if folks think it
was worthwhile for this ...but it is just idle curiosity on my part
for just how old we surviving USENET posters have become.
Could also delve into other demographics too, such as how many are
retired (my guess: ~40%?), or what OSs they really use where <g>. Of
course, being self-reported & unconfirmed, its only as reliable as its
participants.
The scary thing is how few children this subset of Whites has produced.
I'd say the 14 of us in that list have 10 offspring total
Poster Children
========== ========
-hh 0
Ahlstrom 1 daughter
Carpentier 0
D'Oliveiro 0
DFS 0
Feeb 0
Joel 0
Relf 2 (1 of each)
RonB 5 na
Slimer 1 son
candycane 0
rbowman 0
shitv 1 daughter
vallor 0
It should be at least 30 or 40, to carry on the race.
By comparison, my wife's 3 cousins that are a little younger than us
have 14 children between them.
On 1/8/2025 3:25 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
A more evolved, more capable, more enduring Modern Human!
Judging by your home, you don't seem very capable of anything.
https://imgur.com/qzQP63p
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to >>>> annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the >>>> minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't >>> done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better
than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
On 2025-01-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're
thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole
group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a
group of people special privileges based on race.
The Woke seem confused on that issue. Of course the Woke aren't having a
very good time right now, so they may a little constipated. Ford, McDonald's and Walmart are the latest to drop (or curtail) the DEI BS.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much everywhere else.
On 2025-01-09 00:29, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to >>>>> annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the >>>>> minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark
hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better
than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Loyalists vs rebels, yes. However, most of Canada is still Protestant so there is already similarity there. The United States has also been a
melting pot traditionally, but now it is more of a multicultural society
like Canada. Clearly, that's a bad thing, but it means that there is similarity.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much everywhere else.
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?
https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland feasible.
Greenland would be a great place to put all the wannabe migrants. Let
them prove their worth there, for a few years, before letting them
into the mainland.
On 1/9/25 9:58 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-09 00:29, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's)
desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to >>>>>> the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military >>>>>> reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark
hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and >>>>> certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better
than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Loyalists vs rebels, yes. However, most of Canada is still Protestant
so there is already similarity there. The United States has also been
a melting pot traditionally, but now it is more of a multicultural
society like Canada. Clearly, that's a bad thing, but it means that
there is similarity.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much
everywhere else.
The US already HAS at least one active base there now.
Used to have more during the Cold War.
Saw a docu recently about a base they embedded deep in
a glacier - complete with its own nuke reactor. Soon
found out that ice was not nearly as stable as they
imagined ... the whole thing kinda sunk in and fell
apart.
Then a couple weeks ago there was a tourist photo of
that glacier ... bits of the mil base were now oozing
out the side of the ice.
There are a number of micro-settlements all around
the Greenland coast. Hard to say how many are US
or EU radar stations - they won't tell.
My grand-daddy visited Greenland in the late 1800s to
see if there were any farming prospects. Answer - NO !
Can't even put in roads, gotta hop from fjord to fjord
by boat and the glaciers are too unstable to try and
drive on top of.
On 1/9/25 9:58 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-09 00:29, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to >>>>>> annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the >>>>>> minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military >>>>>> reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark
hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and >>>>> certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better
than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Loyalists vs rebels, yes. However, most of Canada is still Protestant so
there is already similarity there. The United States has also been a
melting pot traditionally, but now it is more of a multicultural society
like Canada. Clearly, that's a bad thing, but it means that there is
similarity.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much
everywhere else.
The US already HAS at least one active base there now.
Used to have more during the Cold War.
Saw a docu recently about a base they embedded deep in
a glacier - complete with its own nuke reactor. Soon
found out that ice was not nearly as stable as they
imagined ... the whole thing kinda sunk in and fell
apart.
Then a couple weeks ago there was a tourist photo of
that glacier ... bits of the mil base were now oozing
out the side of the ice.
There are a number of micro-settlements all around
the Greenland coast. Hard to say how many are US
or EU radar stations - they won't tell.
My grand-daddy visited Greenland in the late 1800s to
see if there were any farming prospects. Answer - NO !
Can't even put in roads, gotta hop from fjord to fjord
by boat and the glaciers are too unstable to try and
drive on top of.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 04:16, Beavis wrote:
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
Not the best explanation, Beavis. Let's just say that taking it up the
ass is a fate reserved for people whose manhood is questioned.
You gotta let go of that macho BS, and just realize being a bottom
simply feels good. One need not lose "manhood" over it. That's in
the mind.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 04:16, Beavis wrote:
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
Not the best explanation, Beavis. Let's just say that taking it up the
ass is a fate reserved for people whose manhood is questioned.
You gotta let go of that macho BS, and just realize being a bottom
simply feels good. One need not lose "manhood" over it. That's in
the mind.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 10:38, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 04:16, Beavis wrote:
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
Not the best explanation, Beavis. Let's just say that taking it up the >>>> ass is a fate reserved for people whose manhood is questioned.
You gotta let go of that macho BS, and just realize being a bottom
simply feels good. One need not lose "manhood" over it. That's in
the mind.
Look at it this way: boys get raped by older men all the time and are
irreversibly traumatized by the experience. If it felt good, they
wouldn't become such damaged people in life. I imagine that this has
happened to you too in youth.
Don't feel bad about it, it almost happened to me after I watched my
good friend get raped by the neighbourhood pedophile when I was a child.
I must have been eight at the time. He got assaulted, I ran away. I
still think about how close I came to being damaged in that way and
wonder what happened to him since we moved from that area soon
thereafter. I don't think I ever saw the poor kid ever again. In fact, I
don't recall him ever leaving the house and he lived two doors from me.
I would not be surprised to discover that he's a homosexual today.
I probably was molested as a toddler but I don't have a memory of it,
if so. I was sexually assaulted once at 17, but it was oral on me,
not anal rape.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid 'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of color'? That means they're colored, right?
DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 10:38 AM, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 04:16, Beavis wrote:
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
Not the best explanation, Beavis. Let's just say that taking it up the >>>> ass is a fate reserved for people whose manhood is questioned.
You gotta let go of that macho BS, and just realize being a bottom
simply feels good. One need not lose "manhood" over it. That's in
the mind.
It's grotesque.
You may think so, not everyone would concur.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who knows. The SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to >>>> annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the >>>> minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't >>> done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland feasible. >>>
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who knows. The >>> SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't want to >> be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is nothing better
here except for the women in Quebec. They look better than what the US
produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid
'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of
color'?
That means they're colored, right?
This is the truth! I remember when I was in school, the english teacher
liked negro, while the german teacher said that was racist and preferred colored.
I stuck with the negro. I've made my choice! ;)
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much everywhere else.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:Ive always felt colored to be more offensive than nigger, and negro
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 11:27:32 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
You're racist for even talking about it! :-D
"Coloured folks?"
Who came up with BIPOC? Or NAACP for that matter? By the time I was a kid
'colored' was out and 'negro' was in. Now we're back to 'people of
color'?
That means they're colored, right?
This is the truth! I remember when I was in school, the english teacher
liked negro, while the german teacher said that was racist and preferred colored.
I stuck with the negro. I've made my choice! ;)
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 13:03:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Race isn't a nature concept, its obviously a sociological and
political construct, and fluid to some extent.
If you have a E-V38 Y chromosome I'm guessing you can't pass for a
Swede.
Which race of dog have you owned?
There's far more variation between dog breeds than between human
"races".
Greenland would be a great place to put all the wannabe migrants. Let
them prove their worth there, for a few years, before letting them into
the mainland.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric
vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military
reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and
certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who knows.
The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
I don't understand why the US doesn't just bribe their way to greenland? Promise every inhabintant 1 MUSD in subsidies or some kind of government money, and then have a "vote".
Since the EU is bound by democratic values, and, since greenland legally
is allowed to vote for independence, they would be forced to accept a
yes to greenlandish independence.
Once independent, it is then up to them to discuss joining the US.
Argument over, and the EU would not be able to criticize a democratic
vote by the people.
This is the truth! I remember when I was in school, the english teacher
liked negro, while the german teacher said that was racist and preferred colored.
On Thu, 09 Jan 2025 06:56:46 -0600, chrisv wrote:Not paywalled for me...
Greenland would be a great place to put all the wannabe migrants. Let
them prove their worth there, for a few years, before letting them into
the mainland.
Norway tried that. "We're going to lodge you at a luxury resort -- north
of the Arctic Circle" .
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden- idUSKBN0U207Y20151219/
It's a paywall but you can see enough to get the idea.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 17:56:14 +0100, D wrote:
This is the truth! I remember when I was in school, the english teacher
liked negro, while the german teacher said that was racist and preferred
colored.
Schwarzer.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:40:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 13:03:40 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Race isn't a nature concept, its obviously a sociological and
political construct, and fluid to some extent.
If you have a E-V38 Y chromosome I'm guessing you can't pass for a
Swede.
Which race of dog have you owned?
There's far more variation between dog breeds than between human
"races".
You really want to go there? Would you rather have a lab or a pit bull minding the kids? Humans have had their thumbs on the scales but their breeding attempts have resulted in a wide range of breeds with differing characteristics. In the case of humans, it was natural selection for the
most part although in many cultures a preference for lighter skin
prevailed.
Would you prefer 'breed' to race? Then you could call people breedists.
How about subspecies?
Let's look at the keeper of absolute truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology)
"Races may be genetically distinct populations of individuals within the
same species,[4] or they may be defined in other ways, e.g.
geographically, or physiologically"
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.
How about ... "human"?
Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.
How about ... "human"?
The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever
fucked a black chick. They can only, pathetically, read
about it in their spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic
tendencies due their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that
they do -- including fucking.
Yeah sure but how would I believe *you* could get with an of-age black
woman?
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 16:39, Joel wrote:
Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.
How about ... "human"?
The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever
fucked a black chick. They can only, pathetically, read
about it in their spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic
tendencies due their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that
they do -- including fucking.
Yeah sure but how would I believe *you* could get with an of-age black
woman?
Actually, I've been with a black woman when I was 25 or so. She was 21,
as far as I remember. The sex was okay.
So you aren't entirely racist. :)
No, its purpose wasn't to restrict travel freedoms:
If you don't want expensive utilities, then accept some conveniences.
Its a simple principle & trade-off.
If you want safe food, expect restrictions on the dangerous stuff.
Its a simple principle & trade-off.
Golly, its interesting to see the goalpost shift here from "it ain't >happening at all" to now being "oh, but its too expensive to fix".
(idiocy snipped)
-hh wrote:
No, its purpose wasn't to restrict travel freedoms:
What they claimed in a study 20 years ago means nothing. Today, they
want to be able to shut you down for any reason they want, e.g. some
"public health emergency" such as covid. Or you've hit your "carbon
limit".
-hh wrote:
No, its purpose wasn't to restrict travel freedoms:
What they claimed in a study 20 years ago means nothing.
Today, they want to be able to shut you down for any reason they want,
e.g. some "public health emergency" such as covid. Or you've hit
your "carbon limit".
If you don't want expensive utilities, then accept some conveniences.
Its a simple principle & trade-off.
The "trade off" is from leftists gutting our power generation capacity
for unreliable and inadequate "green" alternatives.
If you want safe food, expect restrictions on the dangerous stuff.
Its a simple principle & trade-off.
I'm talking about bugs vs beef.
Golly, its interesting to see the goalpost shift here from "it ain't
happening at all" to now being "oh, but its too expensive to fix".
Golly, some people have a different point of view, a different point
to make, than others!
(idiocy snipped)
I agree. There is no answer to the problems with mining.
There is no answer to the problems from being utterly dependant
upon communist China for everything from minerals to the
completed car or solar panel or wind turbine or power transformer.
The West takes a massive hit, while China laughs and builds
a hundred coal plants every year. They are happy to take
our money and make everything for us, until we are as dependant
and as weak as babies.
On 2025-01-09 10:20, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/9/25 9:58 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-09 00:29, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's)
desire to
annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access
to the
minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric >>>>>>> vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military >>>>>>> reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark >>>>>> hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and >>>>>> certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look
better than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Loyalists vs rebels, yes. However, most of Canada is still Protestant
so there is already similarity there. The United States has also been
a melting pot traditionally, but now it is more of a multicultural
society like Canada. Clearly, that's a bad thing, but it means that
there is similarity.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much
everywhere else.
The US already HAS at least one active base there now.
Used to have more during the Cold War.
Saw a docu recently about a base they embedded deep in
a glacier - complete with its own nuke reactor. Soon
found out that ice was not nearly as stable as they
imagined ... the whole thing kinda sunk in and fell
apart.
Then a couple weeks ago there was a tourist photo of
that glacier ... bits of the mil base were now oozing
out the side of the ice.
There are a number of micro-settlements all around
the Greenland coast. Hard to say how many are US
or EU radar stations - they won't tell.
My grand-daddy visited Greenland in the late 1800s to
see if there were any farming prospects. Answer - NO !
Can't even put in roads, gotta hop from fjord to fjord
by boat and the glaciers are too unstable to try and
drive on top of.
My favourite depiction of Greenland is the one in the TV show Vikings
where Kjetill Flatnose and others get there and immediately create
borders for each family. They quickly get to starving and fight over the carcass of some whale that washed up ashore. In the end, Flatnose is all that's left and he's overjoyed that he's the king of this vast,
uninhabited wasteland.
chrisv wrote:
a Rolls-Royce Ghost would be great for cruising,
Why you wanna cruise? You wanna pick up bitches?
Ain't no bitch gonna want to get on with your sorry ass.
186282@ud0s4.net wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 1/9/25 9:58 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-09 00:29, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/8/25 8:18 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 19:42, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 17:53:21 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Someone was circulating the theory that Trump's (and Musk's) desire to >>>>>>> annex both Canada and Greenland is the result of wanting access to the >>>>>>> minerals there, which are crucial to the development of electric >>>>>>> vehicles. I would imagine that there are lots of strategic military >>>>>>> reasons too. Maybe the man isn't joking...
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-arctic-russia/
Shipping, gas, oil, minerals, fisheries... Historically, Denmark >>>>>> hasn't
done well protecting its interests since the Danish-Hanseatic War and >>>>>> certainly can't defend Greenland nor is an independent Greenland
feasible.
Canada is a far reach but with Trudeau the Lesser quitting, who
knows. The
SAM provinces might be weighing which is worse, DC or Ottawa.
There will be lots of resistance simply because Canadians have
traditionally seen themselves as "better" than Americans and don't
want to be a part of the "inferior" culture. In reality, there is
nothing better here except for the women in Quebec. They look better >>>>> than what the US produces, but they're just as dim.
Talk/jokes/etc aside, Canada will not be joined with
the USA any time soon. The culture/system/history is
just too different for a good fit.
Loyalists vs rebels, yes. However, most of Canada is still Protestant so >>> there is already similarity there. The United States has also been a
melting pot traditionally, but now it is more of a multicultural society >>> like Canada. Clearly, that's a bad thing, but it means that there is
similarity.
Trump makes these statements For EFFECT ... not because
he's really serious. He mostly wants Canada to deal with
all the immigrants coming down. He's a native salesman
and thus creates grand illusions - intending to deal
somewhere to the middle.
With Greenland, for example, it was barely a week after
he talked about buying/occupying that Denmark suddenly
put a LOT more money into defense efforts there. This
is more what he really wanted. As an actual territory,
Greenland would be a huge money-loser. SO, real world,
expect more EU and US military watch bases there. That
is 'good enough'.
Militarily, I would imagine that having American bases in Greenland
would be interesting to the Americans. They have a base pretty much
everywhere else.
The US already HAS at least one active base there now.
Used to have more during the Cold War.
Saw a docu recently about a base they embedded deep in
a glacier - complete with its own nuke reactor. Soon
found out that ice was not nearly as stable as they
imagined ... the whole thing kinda sunk in and fell
apart.
Then a couple weeks ago there was a tourist photo of
that glacier ... bits of the mil base were now oozing
out the side of the ice.
There are a number of micro-settlements all around
the Greenland coast. Hard to say how many are US
or EU radar stations - they won't tell.
My grand-daddy visited Greenland in the late 1800s to
see if there were any farming prospects. Answer - NO !
Can't even put in roads, gotta hop from fjord to fjord
by boat and the glaciers are too unstable to try and
drive on top of.
Not to mention they're a mile or two deep!
Been reading an interesting book "Climate Crash"; it starts out discussing exploration etc. of Greenland in the first 4 chapters. It's a little out-of-date (2005).
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical
and behavioral traits.
On 2025-01-09 11:34, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 10:38, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 04:16, Beavis wrote:
Joel wrote:
What's so bad about taking it up the ass?https://postimg.cc/GTd7gbyt
Not the best explanation, Beavis. Let's just say that taking it up the >>>>> ass is a fate reserved for people whose manhood is questioned.
You gotta let go of that macho BS, and just realize being a bottom
simply feels good. One need not lose "manhood" over it. That's in
the mind.
Look at it this way: boys get raped by older men all the time and are
irreversibly traumatized by the experience. If it felt good, they
wouldn't become such damaged people in life. I imagine that this has
happened to you too in youth.
Don't feel bad about it, it almost happened to me after I watched my
good friend get raped by the neighbourhood pedophile when I was a child. >>> I must have been eight at the time. He got assaulted, I ran away. I
still think about how close I came to being damaged in that way and
wonder what happened to him since we moved from that area soon
thereafter. I don't think I ever saw the poor kid ever again. In fact, I >>> don't recall him ever leaving the house and he lived two doors from me.
I would not be surprised to discover that he's a homosexual today.
I probably was molested as a toddler but I don't have a memory of it,
if so. I was sexually assaulted once at 17, but it was oral on me,
not anal rape.
In the same way that people who were victims of a car crash often
suppress the memory as a defence mechanism, it is quite possible that
you did the same with the molestation. There is no way a man becomes a proponent of anal sex being performed on him without there being some
sort of assault.
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
On 2025-01-09 17:14, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
No, its purpose wasn't to restrict travel freedoms:
What they claimed in a study 20 years ago means nothing. Today, they
want to be able to shut you down for any reason they want, e.g. some
"public health emergency" such as covid. Or you've hit your "carbon
limit".
I've read the same thing. Of course, these are things that are never
admitted in the highly discredited mainstream publications Hugh
Huntzinger relies on to make an ass of himself.
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat of melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that somehow the
sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to the planet .
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat of
melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that somehow
the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Well ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DID
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
The bullshit "world flood" then happened
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
On 1/10/25 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/01/2025 09:09, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:While the Younger Dryas feature abrupt and massive atmospheric
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat
of melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that
somehow the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to
the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Well ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DID
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
climate change over a few decades - way more than any modern warming
or cooling - it did not immediately melt all of the ice.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
These events have "curves". ALL the ice doesn't form,
or melt, overnight. The BULK may change quickly but
there's always a long 'shadow'.
Right NOW we're still in the shadow of the last Big
Freeze.
Shows the actual sea level rises and the full de glaciation took *over
6000* years.
And continues albeit at a far slower pace, to ythis day.
Mountains of ice do not melt in a day, or a week, or a decade or even
a millennium
The bullshit "world flood" then happenedIT may have heppened quickly, but the ice did not form overnight.
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
The main facts are known. No matter what happens in the atmosphere,
miles deep ice sheets to not melt overnight, and nor does deep
permafrost.
You have to be particularly ignorant of physics to believe otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Ummm ... don't think I'm "pretty ignorant" at all,
have always researched this kind of stuff.
As said, 'curves'.
but the 10% sticks around for a long time,
maybe seeds the NEXT cycle's curve.
It's been about 55 million years since it ALL
melted ... tropical jungle pole to pole. It's
been longer since it ALL froze. Mostly we
drift back and forth along a rough center line.
MANY factors seem to drive the cycles.
On 10/01/2025 09:09, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:While the Younger Dryas feature abrupt and massive atmospheric climate change over a few decades - way more than any modern warming or cooling
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat of
melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that somehow
the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Well ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DID
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
- it did not immediately melt all of the ice.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
Shows the actual sea level rises and the full de glaciation took *over
6000* years.
And continues albeit at a far slower pace, to ythis day.
Mountains of ice do not melt in a day, or a week, or a decade or even a millennium
The bullshit "world flood" then happenedIT may have heppened quickly, but the ice did not form overnight.
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
The main facts are known. No matter what happens in the atmosphere,
miles deep ice sheets to not melt overnight, and nor does deep permafrost.
You have to be particularly ignorant of physics to believe otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
On 10/01/2025 09:35, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/01/2025 09:09, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat
of melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that
somehow the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to
the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Its not a matter of resaearchm, but of phyics, and oif yoiu hadWell ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DIDWhile the Younger Dryas feature abrupt and massive atmospheric
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
climate change over a few decades - way more than any modern warming
or cooling - it did not immediately melt all of the ice.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post-
Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
These events have "curves". ALL the ice doesn't form,
or melt, overnight. The BULK may change quickly but
there's always a long 'shadow'.
Right NOW we're still in the shadow of the last Big
Freeze.
Shows the actual sea level rises and the full de glaciation took
*over 6000* years.
And continues albeit at a far slower pace, to ythis day.
Mountains of ice do not melt in a day, or a week, or a decade or even
a millennium
The bullshit "world flood" then happenedIT may have heppened quickly, but the ice did not form overnight.
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
The main facts are known. No matter what happens in the atmosphere,
miles deep ice sheets to not melt overnight, and nor does deep
permafrost.
You have to be particularly ignorant of physics to believe otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Ummm ... don't think I'm "pretty ignorant" at all,
have always researched this kind of stuff.
reaqearched te grpah I indicated it show exactly how the oice melted and
sea levels roise ovre a 600 year period of constant steady
As said, 'curves'.
No. Virtually a straight line,.
Post the Younger Dryas, ice started melting and sea level rose a a
steady rate for the next 6000 years.
That was the 10% to 90%, and we have hadanother 5% since then, riughly.
The 90% is kinda volatile
but the 10% sticks around for a long time,
maybe seeds the NEXT cycle's curve.
It's been about 55 million years since it ALL
melted ... tropical jungle pole to pole. It's
been longer since it ALL froze. Mostly we
drift back and forth along a rough center line.
MANY factors seem to drive the cycles.
Yes but that is hand-wavy BS and doesn't really help answer the question
of whether or not Greenland will be ice free in 100 years.
And the physics says no. Latent heat of melting is simply too massive
for that ice sheet.
You are in this matter plain *wrong*.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post- Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
Clearly shows rate of melt, but you ignored the [f]actual data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Shows the underlying physics, that you hand waved away.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical
and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in general.
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it was by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the Biden administration)
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical
and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in general.
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills >overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some >breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of >dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
On 1/9/25 5:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-09 17:14, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
No, its purpose wasn't to restrict travel freedoms:
What they claimed in a study 20 years ago means nothing. Today, they
want to be able to shut you down for any reason they want, e.g. some
"public health emergency" such as covid. Or you've hit your "carbon
limit".
I've read the same thing. Of course, these are things that are never
admitted in the highly discredited mainstream publications Hugh
Huntzinger relies on to make an ass of himself.
Leftists particularly seek to limit travel. Surprised
Euros or even USAians don't have to get "travel permits"
yet to visit the next town. Propaganda needs mean it's
best if people are TRAPPED in their own immediate area
and can't personally compare notes with people elsewhere.
On 2025-01-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 03:40, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're >>>>> thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole >>>>> group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a >>>> group of people special privileges based on race.
The Woke seem confused on that issue. Of course the Woke aren't having a >>> very good time right now, so they may a little constipated. Ford, McDonald's
and Walmart are the latest to drop (or curtail) the DEI BS.
I was just talking about Ford with my wife yesterday. If I remember
correctly, they were the _only_ American automotive company strong
enough in 2008 not to require a bailout from the government. Since then,
they have jumped on the electric vehicle train which has cost them a
fortune since nobody wants those cars, at least not from them. Even
worse, their F-150 has just gotten a recall affecting several hundred
thousand vehicle, exacerbating the damage. I imagine that they'll be
requiring government assistance very soon.
They *were* the strongest... until they bought into the EV crap. Hopefully they'll back out of that stupidity. How big is the "carbon footprint" that
is required to provide the electricity that these "climate conscience" cars require? And what kid of "carbon footprint" cost is there in the batteries? — (and they wear out in a few years and are too expensive to replace so the car usually ends up in the junk yard). This "green products" push is just another scam. Not to mention that most of the EV vehicles are about
worthless if you need to drive more than 120 miles.
On 2025-01-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical >>> and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in general.
Science and scientists need to be put in quotes. Almost all so-called "science" these days is pure politics.
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it was by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the Biden administration)
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
On 10/01/2025 09:09, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:While the Younger Dryas feature abrupt and massive atmospheric climate change over a few decades - way more than any modern warming or cooling
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat of
melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that somehow
the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Well ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DID
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
- it did not immediately melt all of the ice.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post- Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
Shows the actual sea level rises and the full de glaciation took *over
6000* years.
And continues albeit at a far slower pace, to ythis day.
Mountains of ice do not melt in a day, or a week, or a decade or even a millennium
The bullshit "world flood" then happenedIT may have heppened quickly, but the ice did not form overnight.
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
The main facts are known. No matter what happens in the atmosphere,
miles deep ice sheets to not melt overnight, and nor does deep permafrost.
You have to be particularly ignorant of physics to believe otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
On 2025-01-10 07:55, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it was
by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the Biden
administration)
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
I had a reminder of that yesterday actually. I have a chunk of movies
ripped from DVDs and Blu-Rays on a portable SSD, and others are
purchased from the Microsoft Store. If I show a movie to a class from
the former and a few students were absent, I can upload the movie to
Teams and they can catch up at their leisure. With the latter, they're completely fucked. I am actually mad that I allowed myself to believe
that it made sense to buy DRM-enabled movies.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.
How about ... "human"?
The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever
fucked a black chick. They can only, pathetically, read
about it in their spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic
tendencies due their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that
they do -- including fucking.
On 1/10/2025 9:35 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-10 07:55, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it was
by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the Biden
administration)
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
I had a reminder of that yesterday actually. I have a chunk of movies
ripped from DVDs and Blu-Rays on a portable SSD, and others are
purchased from the Microsoft Store. If I show a movie to a class from
the former and a few students were absent, I can upload the movie to
Teams and they can catch up at their leisure. With the latter, they're
completely fucked. I am actually mad that I allowed myself to believe
that it made sense to buy DRM-enabled movies.
DRM is necessary so the production companies can recoup the $24M ($12M
each) paid to Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie for a few months work on
Barbie, which, apart from the Ahlstrom-like whining about "the
patriarchy", was a good time.
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it
Prediction: a very brave "(snipped, unread)" is immanent!
was by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the
Biden administration)
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
On 1/9/2025 4:32 PM, "Lays With Dogs" Larry wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever fucked a
How about ... "human"?
black chick. They can only, pathetically, read about it in their
spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic tendencies due
their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that they do --
including fucking.
Gross.
Just a note ... in the longer view, most "repressed/suppressed
memories" pretty much NEVER HAPPENED - at least not remotely as
'remembered'. Humans are not HDDs.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:22:50 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/9/2025 4:32 PM, "Lays With Dogs" Larry wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever fucked a
How about ... "human"?
black chick. They can only, pathetically, read about it in their
spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic tendencies due
their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that they do --
including fucking.
Gross.
I don't have any personal experience in the matter but I find it amusing
that after screaming 'race is a social construct' black chicks are
superior because, wait for it, they are black.
Funny how positive comments about a particular genetic group are perfectly fine while negative observations aren't
On 2025-01-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both
physical and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in
general.
Science and scientists need to be put in quotes. Almost all so-called "science" these days is pure politics.
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the
hills overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration
of some breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra"
fire equipment to Ukraine.)
The bullshit "world flood" then happened as ice-dams and such failed
and sent Huge quantities of water down river tracts in the northern
hemisphere. I can see why so many people imagined the entire world
was flooded.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both
physical and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in
general.
You're a bitter old man :-D
"Bring out your dead...
"Bring out your dead...
"Bring out your dead..."
rbowman wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time,
often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of
individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider
such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage
racial explanations for collective differentiation in both
physical and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in
general.
Too many of them go where the funding is, which is from leftists and communists. Wannabe tyrants.
chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it
Prediction: a very brave "(snipped, unread)" is immanent!
was by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the
Biden administration)
Golly, I didn't expect a "Whataboutism" attempt!
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
Where said "some of us" excluded chrisv, as he censored his reply.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 10:22:50 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/9/2025 4:32 PM, "Lays With Dogs" Larry wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:35:15 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.The problem is that none of these armchair racists has ever fucked a
How about ... "human"?
black chick. They can only, pathetically, read about it in their
spurious journals.
Compared to white chicks, who are riddled with neurotic tendencies due >>>> their thousand-year Christian indoctrination,
blacks chicks are refreshingly natural in everything that they do --
including fucking.
Gross.
I don't have any personal experience in the matter but I find it amusing
that after screaming 'race is a social construct' black chicks are
superior because, wait for it, they are black.
I like how you combine various individaul claims into blanket claims.
"Screaming" LOL get real drama queen.
Funny how positive comments about a particular genetic group are perfectly >> fine while negative observations aren't
Context. Get the context.
Jesus, the loose thinking online!
DFS envies Blacks because they don't smell down there and she does.
On 10/01/2025 09:35, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Its not a matter of resaearchm, but of phyics, and oif yoiu had
On 10/01/2025 09:09, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 1/10/25 2:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:While the Younger Dryas feature abrupt and massive atmospheric
On 09/01/2025 23:31, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Now 100+ years from now, if all remains constant, the
ice will have melted back some more and there might be
a more useful exposed rim.
Go and calculate the mass of ice on Greenland, and its latent heat
of melting, and divide that by a hundred years and tell me that
somehow the sun is going to provide that level of excess energy to
the planet .
As I said elsewhere, I don't see Greenland melting
anytime soon. 'Climate' suffers 'cooling periods'
roughly every 500 years - often driven by massive
Indonesian volcanic events (sometimes asteroids).
Iceland may sometimes play a role.
I think Greenland is mostly 'cycling' - right now
it's slowly melting but sometime soon the climate
may change a few degrees and it'll build up a lot
more ice again.
The ice age didn't end in a century. In fact it hasn't ended,
technically. We are in an interstadial.
Well ... the 'main part' of the last ice age DID
end pretty abruptly in terms of geological time.
Nobody is sure exactly why - all the factors that
co-contributed. My GUESS is that sea levels got
low enough to destabilize the methane hydrate
deposits. There may be proxy evidence - we'll see.
But the point is it took thousands of years for the ice to melt.
Well ... more like maybe 1000 years.
climate change over a few decades - way more than any modern warming
or cooling - it did not immediately melt all of the ice.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
These events have "curves". ALL the ice doesn't form,
or melt, overnight. The BULK may change quickly but
there's always a long 'shadow'.
Right NOW we're still in the shadow of the last Big
Freeze.
Shows the actual sea level rises and the full de glaciation took
*over 6000* years.
And continues albeit at a far slower pace, to ythis day.
Mountains of ice do not melt in a day, or a week, or a decade or even
a millennium
The bullshit "world flood" then happenedIT may have heppened quickly, but the ice did not form overnight.
as ice-dams and such failed and sent Huge
quantities of water down river tracts in
the northern hemisphere. I can see why so
many people imagined the entire world was
flooded.
Thing is, the last Big Freeze happened really
quick too. SOME evidence points to an asteroid
hitting arctic Canada or Greenland.
All the causes/equations are difficult, hard to
pin down, but not impossible. 25 years from now
we'll have a much better picture. Might even be
able to take advantage.
The main facts are known. No matter what happens in the atmosphere,
miles deep ice sheets to not melt overnight, and nor does deep
permafrost.
You have to be particularly ignorant of physics to believe otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Ummm ... don't think I'm "pretty ignorant" at all,
have always researched this kind of stuff.
reaqearched te grpah I indicated it show exactly how the oice melted and
sea levels roise ovre a 600 year period of constant steady
As said, 'curves'.
No. Virtually a straight line,.
Post the Younger Dryas, ice started melting and sea level rose a a
steady rate for the next 6000 years.
That was the 10% to 90%, and we have hadanother 5% since then, riughly.
The 90% is kinda volatile
but the 10% sticks around for a long time,
maybe seeds the NEXT cycle's curve.
It's been about 55 million years since it ALL
melted ... tropical jungle pole to pole. It's
been longer since it ALL froze. Mostly we
drift back and forth along a rough center line.
MANY factors seem to drive the cycles.
Yes but that is hand-wavy BS and doesn't really help answer the question
of whether or not Greenland will be ice free in 100 years.
And the physics says no. Latent heat of melting is simply too massive
for that ice sheet.
You are in this matter plain *wrong*.
https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level_rise2.png
Clearly shows rate of melt, but you ignored the [f]actual data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Shows the underlying physics, that you hand waved away.
-hh wrote:
chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it
Prediction: a very brave "(snipped, unread)" is immanent!
was by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the
Biden administration)
Golly, I didn't expect a "Whataboutism" attempt!
I sure didn't expect you to man-up and admit that you were wrong on
the censorship issue.
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
Where said "some of us" excluded chrisv, as he censored his reply.
That's a lie. I censored nothing. Your full post is available for
anyone to read.
Your response will be deleted, unread.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 04:09:09 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The bullshit "world flood" then happened as ice-dams and such failed
and sent Huge quantities of water down river tracts in the northern
hemisphere. I can see why so many people imagined the entire world
was flooded.
https://www.glaciallakemissoula.org/the-big-picture.html
If there were humans hanging around eastern Washington that survived they
had some pretty good stories. I think Some of the tribes in the area do
have floods in their lore.
Before I even knew the story I remember driving through the Washington scablands and thinking something interesting happened there.
On 2025-01-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-10 04:09, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 03:40, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're >>>>>>> thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole >>>>>>> group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a >>>>>> group of people special privileges based on race.
The Woke seem confused on that issue. Of course the Woke aren't having a >>>>> very good time right now, so they may a little constipated. Ford, McDonald's
and Walmart are the latest to drop (or curtail) the DEI BS.
I was just talking about Ford with my wife yesterday. If I remember
correctly, they were the _only_ American automotive company strong
enough in 2008 not to require a bailout from the government. Since then, >>>> they have jumped on the electric vehicle train which has cost them a
fortune since nobody wants those cars, at least not from them. Even
worse, their F-150 has just gotten a recall affecting several hundred
thousand vehicle, exacerbating the damage. I imagine that they'll be
requiring government assistance very soon.
They *were* the strongest... until they bought into the EV crap. Hopefully >>> they'll back out of that stupidity. How big is the "carbon footprint" that >>> is required to provide the electricity that these "climate conscience" cars >>> require? And what kid of "carbon footprint" cost is there in the batteries? >>> — (and they wear out in a few years and are too expensive to replace so the
car usually ends up in the junk yard). This "green products" push is just >>> another scam. Not to mention that most of the EV vehicles are about
worthless if you need to drive more than 120 miles.
Important facts:
1. You have to flood wide areas of land to extract lithium. They have
new ways of doing it, but they haven't yet been implemented.
2. Lithium is considered a rare metal, and there isn't enough of it to
supply everyone with an electric car.
3. Charged to 100% and depleted to 0%, lithium batteries last about
1,000 charges.
4. The batteries in hybrid cars were charged between 25% to 30%, that is
why they lasted longer.
5. Lithium is recycled at a rate of about 1%, the rest ends up in a
landfill.
6. Electric cars themselves are not recycled because it is dangerous to
do so. As a result, they too end up in landfills.
7. The grid in countries that produce a lot of electricity like Canada
is insufficient to allow for everyone to have an electric car. You would
need to add about a dozen nuclear generators to supply enough.
Apparently, Israel has made the process of charging an electric vehicle
less annoying by making drivers whose cars are depleted drive to a
service station where their battery is replaced within a few minutes. I
have yet to see that here.
I'm a little bit confused about how they would be able to replace EV batteries in a few minutes...
Okay, I found some information about it... but, apparently, the Israeli outfit that was doing it when belly-up in 2013, and Tessla's attempt at this service ten years ago was unsuccessful. But maybe that's changing. No one is mentioning how expensive it is to lease these batteries or use this service.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lbsbusinessstrategyreview/2024/04/15/the-rebirth-of-ev-battery-swapping-services-and-why-their-time-is-now/
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some >>> breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of >>> dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment >>> to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing
"diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s. They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades.
On 2025-01-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-10 04:12, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:Science and scientists need to be put in quotes. Almost all so-called
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time, >>>>> often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of >>>>> individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider >>>>> such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage >>>>> racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical >>>>> and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in general. >>>
"science" these days is pure politics.
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some >>> breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of >>> dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment >>> to Ukraine.)
I believe your claim about Los Angeles sealing its fate to save some
breed of mouse. As we know, part of why California is so dry has to do
with the fact that during the Obama period, water was diverted away from
its destination in California into the Pacific Ocean to save some
parasitic species of fish. This is actually well known, but one of my
local "independent" news agencies claimed that Trump was lying when he
brought that up (I have since decided to stop giving that news agency a
chance).
Inconvenient facts are always labled "misinformation" by the lying MSM.
On 2025-01-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-10 10:37, DFS wrote:
On 1/10/2025 9:35 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-10 07:55, chrisv wrote:
-hh wrote:
(snip stuff from the same guy who defended censorship because it was >>>>>> by "private companies" who were being told to do it by the Biden
administration)
Some of us value freedom more than others, obviously.
I had a reminder of that yesterday actually. I have a chunk of movies
ripped from DVDs and Blu-Rays on a portable SSD, and others are
purchased from the Microsoft Store. If I show a movie to a class from
the former and a few students were absent, I can upload the movie to
Teams and they can catch up at their leisure. With the latter, they're >>>> completely fucked. I am actually mad that I allowed myself to believe
that it made sense to buy DRM-enabled movies.
DRM is necessary so the production companies can recoup the $24M ($12M
each) paid to Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie for a few months work on
Barbie, which, apart from the Ahlstrom-like whining about "the
patriarchy", was a good time.
I wouldn't know, I don't watch recent movies that much. I like to buy
movies I liked back in the day on DVD though. I just got Old School and
The Bourne Supremacy.
I didn't like the one Bourne movie I partially watched. That "shaky-camera" crap gets on my nerves. (I think it was a Bourne movie with the "shaky-camera" disease — if not, my apologies.)
I've been watching the Jesse Stone movies. More my speed these days.
On 2025-01-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
...
Apparently, Israel has made the process of charging an electric vehicle
less annoying by making drivers whose cars are depleted drive to a
service station where their battery is replaced within a few minutes. I
have yet to see that here.
I'm a little bit confused about how they would be able to replace EV batteries in a few minutes...
Okay, I found some information about it... but, apparently, the Israeli outfit that was doing it when belly-up in 2013, and Tessla's attempt at this service ten years ago was unsuccessful. But maybe that's changing. No one is mentioning how expensive it is to lease these batteries or use this service.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lbsbusinessstrategyreview/2024/04/15/the-rebirth-of-ev-battery-swapping-services-and-why-their-time-is-now/
(snipped, unread)
RonB wrote:
Inconvenient facts are always labled "misinformation" by the lying MSM.
Yep, and I consider it inconvenient to continue reading their garbage
once it becomes clear that they are neither objective nor a reliable
source of information. If I'm going to be lied to, I might as well get
it from the CNC that I pay for with my taxes.
-hh wrote:
(snipped, unread)
Poor -highhorse. If he's not attacking reasonable behavior, he's
defending unreasonable behavior.
I would love to see him "man up" on the censorship issue. He could
admit that leftists in the government disallowed freedom of speech. Government directives resulted in the censorship of those on the
right. On multiple issues that went against the Biden
administration's narrative.
This is relevant to what was being discussed, too. It shows that the
asshole is ok with our most precious rights being taken away.
He will need to change the subject header to indicate his intentions
to "man up", of course, if I'm to see it.
CrudeSausage wrote:
RonB wrote:
Inconvenient facts are always labled "misinformation" by the lying MSM.
Yep, and I consider it inconvenient to continue reading their garbage
once it becomes clear that they are neither objective nor a reliable
source of information. If I'm going to be lied to, I might as well get
it from the CNC that I pay for with my taxes.
Have you guys seen that Tampon Tim rant where he states that there is
no freedom of speech when there is "misinformation" or "hate speech".
With radical leftists deciding what those things are, of course. They
might prosecute you for being critical of men who want to hang-out
naked in the girls' locker room. "She's a woman with man's body, you transphobe!"
On 2025-01-08 12:13, DFS wrote:
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech
DFS 62 birth certificate
Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
45 in my case, about to turn 46 in a month.
Well, I was a fan of the Bourne Identity, the Bourne Supremacy and the
Bourne Ultimatum. I even bought Jason Bourne on the Windows movie store
but have yet to watch it. I just like the action. The worst shake-camera movies I've seen were Transformers and Man of Steel. There, the camera
shakes so much that you have no way of knowing what the heck is going
on. I loved Henry Cavill as Superman but I hated the movie he was in
because of that.
On 1/8/2025 2:07 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-01-08 12:13, DFS wrote:
On 1/8/2025 10:56 AM, -hh wrote:
Makes me wonder about what the median age is on this newsgroup.
I suspect that very few (if any) are still under age 45, if not 50
Poster Age Source
============ ========= =============
-hh mid 60s? guess
Ahlstrom 67 online
Carpentier 50s? guess
D'Oliveiro 60s? posts about old tech
DFS 62 birth certificate
Feeb 43 online
Joel late 40s Joel
PhysFitFreak 70s online
Relf 64 Relf
RonB 70s RonB
Slimer mid 40s Slimer
candycane 30s? guess
rbowman 75 rbowman
shitv late 50s? his posts
vallor 58 online
approx
median 62
avg 59
45 in my case, about to turn 46 in a month.
Thanks.
When I first started posting in this stinkpit I was 41. Scary how fast
time passes.
DFS envies Blacks because they don't smell down there and she does.
On 1/11/2025 7:25 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Well, I was a fan of the Bourne Identity, the Bourne Supremacy and the
Bourne Ultimatum. I even bought Jason Bourne on the Windows movie
store but have yet to watch it. I just like the action. The worst
shake-camera movies I've seen were Transformers and Man of Steel.
There, the camera shakes so much that you have no way of knowing what
the heck is going on. I loved Henry Cavill as Superman but I hated the
movie he was in because of that.
I think it's the director Paul Greengrass who overuses that extremely irritating method of filming. As I recall, Green Zone was 115 minutes
of shaky handheld camera.
I didn't like the one Bourne movie I partially watched. That
"shaky-camera"
crap gets on my nerves. (I think it was a Bourne movie with the "shaky-camera" disease — if not, my apologies.)
I've been watching the Jesse Stone movies. More my speed these days.
I think it's the director Paul Greengrass who overuses that extremely irritating method of filming. As I recall, Green Zone was 115 minutes
of shaky handheld camera.
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the >>>hills overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration >>>of some breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the >>>removal of dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" >>>fire equipment to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing
"diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early
50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades.
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:49:31 -0600, Mehram Maleki (Physfitfreak) wrote:
DFS envies Blacks because they don't smell down there and she does.
He's a bald-headed bubba.
Black girls, unlike most white women, can be very aggressive and they
would assuredly spit in his ugly face.
But you are quite correct in assuming that he has a "female brain."
He does have all the characteristics of a schoolmarm or a den mother.
His low intelligence shows in that he clings to his "Access" database
like a security blanket. In this way he attempts to show that he is
one of the smart Big Boys. But the Big Boys, like the black girls,
will only laugh in his face.
some dumb fsck wrote:
When I first started posting in this stinkpit I was 41. Scary how fast
time passes.
I imagine that things were a lot more
fun when Peter the Klwn and Debbie Ballard were regulars.
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:08, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-10 04:09, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-09 03:40, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 08:59:22 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Nah, we're not thinking in terms of race with that accusation, we're >>>>>>>>> thinking in terms of *bigotry* as expressed by denigration of a whole >>>>>>>>> group of people based on race.
But race doesn't exist. Or does it? The liberals are fine with giving a
group of people special privileges based on race.
The Woke seem confused on that issue. Of course the Woke aren't having a
very good time right now, so they may a little constipated. Ford, McDonald's
and Walmart are the latest to drop (or curtail) the DEI BS.
I was just talking about Ford with my wife yesterday. If I remember >>>>>> correctly, they were the _only_ American automotive company strong >>>>>> enough in 2008 not to require a bailout from the government. Since then, >>>>>> they have jumped on the electric vehicle train which has cost them a >>>>>> fortune since nobody wants those cars, at least not from them. Even >>>>>> worse, their F-150 has just gotten a recall affecting several hundred >>>>>> thousand vehicle, exacerbating the damage. I imagine that they'll be >>>>>> requiring government assistance very soon.
They *were* the strongest... until they bought into the EV crap. Hopefully
they'll back out of that stupidity. How big is the "carbon footprint" that
is required to provide the electricity that these "climate conscience" cars
require? And what kid of "carbon footprint" cost is there in the batteries?
— (and they wear out in a few years and are too expensive to replace so the
car usually ends up in the junk yard). This "green products" push is just >>>>> another scam. Not to mention that most of the EV vehicles are about
worthless if you need to drive more than 120 miles.
Important facts:
1. You have to flood wide areas of land to extract lithium. They have
new ways of doing it, but they haven't yet been implemented.
2. Lithium is considered a rare metal, and there isn't enough of it to >>>> supply everyone with an electric car.
3. Charged to 100% and depleted to 0%, lithium batteries last about
1,000 charges.
4. The batteries in hybrid cars were charged between 25% to 30%, that is >>>> why they lasted longer.
5. Lithium is recycled at a rate of about 1%, the rest ends up in a
landfill.
6. Electric cars themselves are not recycled because it is dangerous to >>>> do so. As a result, they too end up in landfills.
7. The grid in countries that produce a lot of electricity like Canada >>>> is insufficient to allow for everyone to have an electric car. You would >>>> need to add about a dozen nuclear generators to supply enough.
Apparently, Israel has made the process of charging an electric vehicle >>>> less annoying by making drivers whose cars are depleted drive to a
service station where their battery is replaced within a few minutes. I >>>> have yet to see that here.
I'm a little bit confused about how they would be able to replace EV
batteries in a few minutes...
Okay, I found some information about it... but, apparently, the Israeli
outfit that was doing it when belly-up in 2013, and Tessla's attempt at this
service ten years ago was unsuccessful. But maybe that's changing. No one is
mentioning how expensive it is to lease these batteries or use this service.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lbsbusinessstrategyreview/2024/04/15/the-rebirth-of-ev-battery-swapping-services-and-why-their-time-is-now/
Admittedly, it's possible that this service no longer exists. I got the
story from my father-in-law who has Jewish friends who visit Israel
regularly. I thought it was bullshit too until I saw the story that yes,
such a thing exists/existed in Israel. To me, swapping batteries that
way was impossible because the batteries are usually very complex and as
big as the car, but I guess they figured out a way to do it differently.
Makes me wonder if they were using a specific car model. One designed for this.
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:10, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some >>>>> breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of >>>>> dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing
"diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades.
Instead of beating the living Hell out of beatniks and variations of
Communists, they tolerated them. Once Berkeley was taken over, it was
downhill for the state.
That said, I believe that there are a lot more conservatives in
California than the election results suggest. These people don't believe
in fair elections, and there is much reason to believe that there is
rampant fraud there enabling the Democrats to stay in power even when
the people want to get rid of them.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except they drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export the same politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 11:36:44 -0500, DFS wrote:
I think it's the director Paul Greengrass who overuses that extremely
irritating method of filming. As I recall, Green Zone was 115 minutes
of shaky handheld camera.
Let's hear it for the Steadicam technology!
I haven't read any of Parker's Jesse Stone books, but I probably will
now that I've watched movies based on them. And I agree that Selleck
makes it better. Now that Blue Bloods has ended (I've never watched that show... yet,
but it went fourteen years) there's talk of more Jesse Stone movies.
Makes me wonder if they were using a specific car model. One designed
for this.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except
they drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export
the same politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
On 2025-01-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-12 02:54, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:10, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some
breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of
dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing >>>>>> "diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades.
Instead of beating the living Hell out of beatniks and variations of
Communists, they tolerated them. Once Berkeley was taken over, it was
downhill for the state.
That said, I believe that there are a lot more conservatives in
California than the election results suggest. These people don't believe >>>> in fair elections, and there is much reason to believe that there is
rampant fraud there enabling the Democrats to stay in power even when
the people want to get rid of them.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of
Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except they >>> drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export the same >>> politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
I think that Californians feel the need to live in areas with lots of
population, so Idaho is not likely to be a destination. Texas maybe, but
not farm central.
We've gotten a LOT of Californians here. The city I live in (just west of Boise) was, for a couple years, the fastest growing city in the country. Mostly because of the influx Californians (plus some from Seattle and Portland). Mostly they want to get out of the Woke shitholes they were
living in. The biggest downside is that they've driven the price of housing way up. But I can't blame them for wanting to get out of California.
I don't know who James Wesley Rawles is or what "American Redoubt"
refers to.
And, right now, I'm too lazy to look either up.
I'll have to give it a shot. I don't have cable, so everything I watch
is streaming — I only recently found out there was a show called Blue Bloods.
On 2025-01-10 04:12, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 15:32:01 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time, >>>> often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of >>>> individuals based on perceived traits. Modern scientists consider >>>> such biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage >>>> racial explanations for collective differentiation in both
physical
and behavioral traits.
To be perfectly clear -- fuck modern scientists and modernity in
general.
Science and scientists need to be put in quotes. Almost all so-called
"science" these days is pure politics.
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the
hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some
breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of
dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire
equipment
to Ukraine.)
I believe your claim about Los Angeles sealing its fate to save some
breed of mouse.
As we know, part of why California is so dry has to do
with the fact that during the Obama period, water was diverted away from
its destination in California into the Pacific Ocean to save some
parasitic species of fish. This is actually well known, but one of my
local "independent" news agencies claimed that Trump was lying when he brought that up (I have since decided to stop giving that news agency a chance).
even when the reservoir on the hilltop is still full(!) <--Water is an incompressible; this is textbook Fluid Dymamics 101.
On 2025-01-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 07:16, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-12 02:54, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:10, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some
breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of
dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing >>>>>>>> "diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades.
Instead of beating the living Hell out of beatniks and variations of >>>>>> Communists, they tolerated them. Once Berkeley was taken over, it was >>>>>> downhill for the state.
That said, I believe that there are a lot more conservatives in
California than the election results suggest. These people don't believe >>>>>> in fair elections, and there is much reason to believe that there is >>>>>> rampant fraud there enabling the Democrats to stay in power even when >>>>>> the people want to get rid of them.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of
Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except they
drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export the same >>>>> politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
I think that Californians feel the need to live in areas with lots of
population, so Idaho is not likely to be a destination. Texas maybe, but >>>> not farm central.
We've gotten a LOT of Californians here. The city I live in (just west of >>> Boise) was, for a couple years, the fastest growing city in the country. >>> Mostly because of the influx Californians (plus some from Seattle and
Portland). Mostly they want to get out of the Woke shitholes they were
living in. The biggest downside is that they've driven the price of housing >>> way up. But I can't blame them for wanting to get out of California.
I don't blame Californians for wanting to escape the state's woke
ideology, but I _would_ blame them for wanting to vote in the same kind
of people in Idaho.
So far they're not doing that — or at least they're not in the majority.
On 2025-01-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-14 04:29, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:These people are like hyenas though, so I wouldn't be surprised that
On 2025-01-13 07:16, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-12 02:54, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:10, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:Instead of beating the living Hell out of beatniks and variations of >>>>>>>> Communists, they tolerated them. Once Berkeley was taken over, it was >>>>>>>> downhill for the state.
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some
breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of
dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing >>>>>>>>>> "diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades. >>>>>>>>
That said, I believe that there are a lot more conservatives in >>>>>>>> California than the election results suggest. These people don't believe
in fair elections, and there is much reason to believe that there is >>>>>>>> rampant fraud there enabling the Democrats to stay in power even when >>>>>>>> the people want to get rid of them.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of >>>>>>> Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except they
drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export the same
politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
I think that Californians feel the need to live in areas with lots of >>>>>> population, so Idaho is not likely to be a destination. Texas maybe, but >>>>>> not farm central.
We've gotten a LOT of Californians here. The city I live in (just west of >>>>> Boise) was, for a couple years, the fastest growing city in the country. >>>>> Mostly because of the influx Californians (plus some from Seattle and >>>>> Portland). Mostly they want to get out of the Woke shitholes they were >>>>> living in. The biggest downside is that they've driven the price of housing
way up. But I can't blame them for wanting to get out of California.
I don't blame Californians for wanting to escape the state's woke
ideology, but I _would_ blame them for wanting to vote in the same kind >>>> of people in Idaho.
So far they're not doing that — or at least they're not in the majority. >>
"progressive" "liberal" "social democrats" will move to Idaho
specifically to try to turn the tide over to the Democrats, similarly to
how 12,000 Antifa assholes travelled to wherever there was an AfD
meeting in Germany to stop people from supporting the party.
It's going to be hard for them to overcome the Morman base in Idaho. The Mormans pretty much vote in a block and they vote Republican.
By the way, I finally got rid of Fedora and migrated over to Pop!_OS. I
like Fedora, but they have way too much trouble with the NVIDIA driver
for it to be viable. I considered Nobara, but I have to admit that I can
at least be assured that I won't have trouble with the proprietary
driver in System76's operating system.
Good luck. I gave Pop!_OS a trial run once. For some reason (I can't
remember exactly why) I didn't like it. But what I want in a computer is not the same as what you want in one. I've heard good things from some people about Pop!_OS, but I hate the stupid way they spell the name with an exclamation point and an underscore. Why not just PopOS?
On 2025-01-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 1/15/25 5:48 AM, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-14 04:29, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 07:16, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:I don't blame Californians for wanting to escape the state's woke
On 2025-01-12 02:54, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-11 04:10, RonB wrote:
On 2025-01-10, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:Instead of beating the living Hell out of beatniks and variations of >>>>>>>>>> Communists, they tolerated them. Once Berkeley was taken over, it was
RonB wrote:
Apparently L.A. is burning because they quit making fire breaks on the hills
overlooking the city because "they interfered" with the migration of some
breed of mouse. And the water shortage is partly caused by the removal of
dams in north California. (That and they sent their "extra" fire equipment
to Ukraine.)
'Course, the fire chief is a lesbian whose main agenda is increasing
"diversity" in fire fighters. Sheesh.
California was almost a "paradise" when my dad moved their in the early 50s.
They've sure managed to screw that up in the following decades. >>>>>>>>>>
downhill for the state.
That said, I believe that there are a lot more conservatives in >>>>>>>>>> California than the election results suggest. These people don't believe
in fair elections, and there is much reason to believe that there is >>>>>>>>>> rampant fraud there enabling the Democrats to stay in power even when
the people want to get rid of them.
The main thing I'm worried about now is that another big batch of >>>>>>>>> Californians will move to Idaho. Which would be (mostly) okay (except they
drive the price of property way up) if they didn't try to export the same
politics that turned California into a shithole into Idaho.
I think that Californians feel the need to live in areas with lots of >>>>>>>> population, so Idaho is not likely to be a destination. Texas maybe, but
not farm central.
We've gotten a LOT of Californians here. The city I live in (just west of
Boise) was, for a couple years, the fastest growing city in the country.
Mostly because of the influx Californians (plus some from Seattle and >>>>>>> Portland). Mostly they want to get out of the Woke shitholes they were >>>>>>> living in. The biggest downside is that they've driven the price of housing
way up. But I can't blame them for wanting to get out of California. >>>>>>
ideology, but I _would_ blame them for wanting to vote in the same kind >>>>>> of people in Idaho.
So far they're not doing that — or at least they're not in the majority.
These people are like hyenas though, so I wouldn't be surprised that
"progressive" "liberal" "social democrats" will move to Idaho
specifically to try to turn the tide over to the Democrats, similarly to >>>> how 12,000 Antifa assholes travelled to wherever there was an AfD
meeting in Germany to stop people from supporting the party.
It's going to be hard for them to overcome the Morman base in Idaho. The >>> Mormans pretty much vote in a block and they vote Republican.
I'm sure that they will find a way to convince them that Republicans,
particularly Christian ones, are a menace to Mormonism. They've already
convinced negroes and faggots are conservatism is a threat to them even
though we tend to leave them alone in general. Heck, we usually befriend
them when they emerge as unicorns and prove to be useful to society.
I don't know that Idaho's 4 electoral votes are that important to the Democrats.
By the way, I finally got rid of Fedora and migrated over to Pop!_OS. I >>>> like Fedora, but they have way too much trouble with the NVIDIA driver >>>> for it to be viable. I considered Nobara, but I have to admit that I can >>>> at least be assured that I won't have trouble with the proprietary
driver in System76's operating system.
Good luck. I gave Pop!_OS a trial run once. For some reason (I can't
remember exactly why) I didn't like it. But what I want in a computer is not
the same as what you want in one. I've heard good things from some people >>> about Pop!_OS, but I hate the stupid way they spell the name with an
exclamation point and an underscore. Why not just PopOS?
It didn't last long. It supports NVIDIA very well but I can't stand
GNOME anymore (I've fallen in love with KDE), and I discovered that for
no reason whatsoever, Pop!_OS freezes when I open an application if the
operating system has been on for more than ten minutes or so. Like every
other Ubuntu-based distribution I've tried, it also eventually freezes
requiring me to restore functionality through a CTRL-ALT-F3. I don't
know why Ubuntu-based is so bad, but I've lost the patience to figure it
out. Fedora's base is already better, and I'm shocked at how stellar
Arch's (through Manjaro) base is.
So you're using Manjaro now? I don't know that I've ever tried it, but I've considered it. Do they have a Live USB "install"?
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 17:56:14 +0100, D wrote:
This is the truth! I remember when I was in school, the english teacher
liked negro, while the german teacher said that was racist and preferred >>> colored.
Schwarzer.
In one of Edgar Rice Burrough's novels, one of the characters (a Chicago boy IIRC) used the term "smokes".
"Jigaboo" was the term Archie Bunker used.
How about ... "human"?
...
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
-- Robert Frost (1874-1963): Fire and Ice
On Mon, 06 Jan 2025 18:35:25 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
...
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
-- Robert Frost (1874-1963): Fire and Ice
Somebody named Robert Frost *would* think that, wouldn’t they ...
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
In my careers - I have had several - us Engineers were humble creatures who wrote clean workmanlike well documented and tested code in the hope that no one would ever have to write it again, and if they did, it would be instantly understandable. Code was. to quote my friend 'Higgy', 'all just bits, in silicon'.
Later I encountered computer scientists who spoke a strange language with artistic terms in it like 'elegance' 'intellectual purity' 'algorithmic efficiency' 'Turing complete' 'object oriented' and other words that seemed to have nothing whatever to do with actually writing testing and debugging clean code that met the spec and worked in a timescale less than eternity...
I decided they were all frustrated ArtStudents™ with Physics envy who could not do HardSums™
And should never be let anywhere near a critical project.
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can
be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his
room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official training is able to do it.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
In my careers - I have had several - us Engineers were humble
creatures who wrote clean workmanlike well documented and tested code
in the hope that no one would ever have to write it again, and if they
did, it would be instantly understandable. Code was. to quote my
friend 'Higgy', 'all just bits, in silicon'.
Later I encountered computer scientists who spoke a strange language
with artistic terms in it like 'elegance' 'intellectual purity'
'algorithmic efficiency' 'Turing complete' 'object oriented' and
other words that seemed to have nothing whatever to do with actually
writing testing and debugging clean code that met the spec and worked
in a timescale less than eternity...
I decided they were all frustrated ArtStudents™ with Physics envy who
could not do HardSums™
Haha, brilliant!
And should never be let anywhere near a critical project.
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can
be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his
room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best
documented way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without
the official training is able to do it.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year I
arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued to work
at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
There is computer science, and there is software engineering.
Textbooks on software engineering are worth reading
On 08/02/2025 17:59, D wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
In my careers - I have had several - us Engineers were humble creatures
who wrote clean workmanlike well documented and tested code in the hope
that no one would ever have to write it again, and if they did, it would >>> be instantly understandable. Code was. to quote my friend 'Higgy', 'all >>> just bits, in silicon'.
Later I encountered computer scientists who spoke a strange language with >>> artistic terms in it like 'elegance' 'intellectual purity' 'algorithmic
efficiency' 'Turing complete' 'object oriented' and other words that
seemed to have nothing whatever to do with actually writing testing and
debugging clean code that met the spec and worked in a timescale less than >>> eternity...
I decided they were all frustrated ArtStudents™ with Physics envy who
could not do HardSums™
Haha, brilliant!
And should never be let anywhere near a critical project.
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can be >> an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his room >> who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented
way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official
training is able to do it.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A students >> with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the theory part
however, they were always the A students.
There is computer science, and there is software engineering.
Textbooks on software engineering are worth reading
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can
be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his
room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented
way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official
training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented >>> way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
and many women?
On 08/02/2025 17:59, D wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
In my careers - I have had several - us Engineers were humble
creatures who wrote clean workmanlike well documented and tested code
in the hope that no one would ever have to write it again, and if
they did, it would be instantly understandable. Code was. to quote my
friend 'Higgy', 'all just bits, in silicon'.
Later I encountered computer scientists who spoke a strange language
with artistic terms in it like 'elegance' 'intellectual purity'
'algorithmic efficiency' 'Turing complete' 'object oriented' and
other words that seemed to have nothing whatever to do with actually
writing testing and debugging clean code that met the spec and worked
in a timescale less than eternity...
I decided they were all frustrated ArtStudents™ with Physics envy who
could not do HardSums™
Haha, brilliant!
And should never be let anywhere near a critical project.
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there
can be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy
in his room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best
documented way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without
the official training is able to do it.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
There is computer science, and there is software engineering.
Textbooks on software engineering are worth reading
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:17:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year I
arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued to work
at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
My 'formal' computer education consisted of a FORTRAN IV course in '65. I wasn't impressed. It took about ten years and an industry shift from
hardware controls to software to pique my interest.
A shot at graduate school was similar. It didn't take long to realize the curricula had no bearing on what I was doing or ever wanted to do.
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best
documented
way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
and many women?
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented >>>> way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
and many women?
I found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
Didactic computer languages tend to emphasize concepts over utility. I
spent a winter a long time ago working my way through the Wizard book
which used Scheme. I found the concepts interesting but the back of my
mind kept saying 'Why would you ever do it this way?'
On 2/8/25 2:28 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
I took ONE programming class - FORTRAN - punch cards -
and then wormed my way into profitable endeavours.
Stuck to the medium/small enterprises and thus avoided
most of the 'Dilbert' horrors. My forte was kinda
one-off 'scientific'/real-world stuff ... good data-
loggers and sensing and the software that went with
them. Liked that a lot - dead low-level soldering of
transistors on hand-made boards on up. Had to become
more "IT" towards the end - servers/NAS/net/etc - but
it wasn't as fun. When new management thought it was
a great idea to go all M$/cloud, I retired.
Old sage Steve Ciarcia once said his favorite
programming languages was "solder" ... I'm kinda
in agreement :-)
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented >>>> way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
and many women?
I found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
On 2/9/25 2:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
Didactic computer languages tend to emphasize concepts over utility. I
spent a winter a long time ago working my way through the Wizard book
which used Scheme. I found the concepts interesting but the back of my
mind kept saying 'Why would you ever do it this way?'
For the record, I just LOVE Pascal ... still do
lots of apps small and large in FPC/Lazarus. May
proto in Python, but often the goal is to re-do
it in Pascal.
SOME languages are a little TOO much 'ideology'.
Wirth managed to balance the equation. Both
ideology AND very practical.
I started using Pascal back with the pink-label
multi-pass IBM compilers. Never went back. 'C'
is Just Great - but Pascal is far more easy to
*understand* and is just 'elegant'.
STILL have a VM of DOS with the multi-pass
Pascal compiler - and DO stuff in it from
time to time.
On 2/8/25 6:41 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>>>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>>>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best
documented
way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>>>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the >>>>> theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since. >>>
and many women?
I found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
I went from niche to niche - and had fun. Vast wealth
was never one of my goals.
As I said to 'D' - not everybody defines "success"
the same way.
On 2/8/25 4:16 PM, D wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-08, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
I always loved that description of a piece of software:
"It's a great improvement on its successors."
<snip>
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there can >>>> be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy in his >>>> room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best documented >>>> way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy without the official >>>> training is able to do it.
And, in the end, his solution might be the more elegant one,
in that it takes all sorts of real-world factors into account.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth and >> many women?
Not everybody defines "success" the same way :-)
Me, my social skills are more like "Sheldon", so I'd
have had to make billions and know a good yacht-designer
to find nubile insincere women who could ignore that :-)
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
Didactic computer languages tend to emphasize concepts over utility. I
spent a winter a long time ago working my way through the Wizard book
which used Scheme. I found the concepts interesting but the back of my
mind kept saying 'Why would you ever do it this way?'
For the record, I just LOVE Pascal ... still do lots of apps small
and large in FPC/Lazarus. May proto in Python, but often the goal is
to re-do it in Pascal.
SOME languages are a little TOO much 'ideology'.
Wirth managed to balance the equation. Both ideology AND very
practical.
I started using Pascal back with the pink-label multi-pass IBM
compilers. Never went back. 'C' is Just Great - but Pascal is far
more easy to *understand* and is just 'elegant'.
STILL have a VM of DOS with the multi-pass Pascal compiler - and DO
stuff in it from time to time.
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
You want some real macro madness?
On 2025-02-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
That was true of all the Wirthian languages, wasn't it?
I've heard them referred to as "bondage and discipline" languages.
I fell in love with assembly language at first sight. It was so nice to
have a machine that would just do what I wanted in a couple of
instructions, rather than jumping through all the hoops you had to do to
coax a high-level language to do it. (Yes, you could also shoot
yourself in the foot, but that's part of the learning process.)
On 2/8/25 1:28 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
Especially if you have no need in the world above fucking a maid you
married to, watching some TV commercials for information, and joining a government political party.
Bozos' place is not in universities. Be the Sheep you are and live so,
and everything will go fine from there for you.
On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:17:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year I
arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued to work
at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
My 'formal' computer education consisted of a FORTRAN IV course in '65. I wasn't impressed. It took about ten years and an industry shift from
hardware controls to software to pique my interest.
A shot at graduate school was similar. It didn't take long to realize the curricula had no bearing on what I was doing or ever wanted to do.
If he reads "Bible" he is parochial. Tribal. Will never understand citizenship. Will never be anywhere beyond "country music."
Others who're beyond him are Camel Jockeys. Aliens. Chinks.
Read your Bible and then die. Not much more there is you can do.
Oh, don't forget to pay your NRL membership. You don't want to lose that!
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealthI found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
and many women?
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
On 2/8/25 10:36 PM, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/8/25 2:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:17:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.My 'formal' computer education consisted of a FORTRAN IV course in
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year I
arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued to work >>>> at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since. >>>
'65. I
wasn't impressed. It took about ten years and an industry shift from
hardware controls to software to pique my interest.
Aw ... I just LOVE knobs and switches !
More "human". :-)
A shot at graduate school was similar. It didn't take long to realize
the
curricula had no bearing on what I was doing or ever wanted to do.
As some here have noted, 'academic' computing and
real-world are very different. Each kind of, oft
barely, influences the other but it's really two
universes.
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with
Pascal/Modula. Alas it was a shorter fence to
straddle back then ....
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot"
volume surrounding your dicks. That's your world!
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks of old grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read Bible on
your computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.
Fucking idiots.
nubile insincere women
On 2/8/25 2:27 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 17:59, D wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 07:36, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
IMHO, a lot of this is just "busy work" from
people looking for something to do. Their
idea of "better" means "better for ME - and
screw YOU". It's not better for the average,
or even professional, user.
In my careers - I have had several - us Engineers were humble
creatures who wrote clean workmanlike well documented and tested
code in the hope that no one would ever have to write it again, and
if they did, it would be instantly understandable. Code was. to
quote my friend 'Higgy', 'all just bits, in silicon'.
Later I encountered computer scientists who spoke a strange language
with artistic terms in it like 'elegance' 'intellectual purity'
'algorithmic efficiency' 'Turing complete' 'object oriented' and
other words that seemed to have nothing whatever to do with actually
writing testing and debugging clean code that met the spec and
worked in a timescale less than eternity...
I decided they were all frustrated ArtStudents™ with Physics envy
who could not do HardSums™
Haha, brilliant!
And should never be let anywhere near a critical project.
I am fascinated by the fact that when it comes to programming, there
can be an enormous disconnect between academic programmers, and a guy
in his room who just pounded out the code and got the work done.
I'm not saying he did it in the most "elegant" way or the best
documented way, but I do claim that in many instances, the guy
without the official training is able to do it.
Reminds me of when I went to university. I often had to help the A
students with their practical assignments, and I got it done. On the
theory part however, they were always the A students.
There is computer science, and there is software engineering.
Textbooks on software engineering are worth reading
"Computer science" can be interesting - although
not very accessible to those with sub-Turing IQ.
But "software engineering" is really Where It's At.
On 08/02/2025 19:50, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:17:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Yeah. They wanted me to do a PhD. But I was no fan of the academic life.
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year I
arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued to work
at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since.
My 'formal' computer education consisted of a FORTRAN IV course in '65. I
wasn't impressed. It took about ten years and an industry shift from
hardware controls to software to pique my interest.
A shot at graduate school was similar. It didn't take long to realize the
curricula had no bearing on what I was doing or ever wanted to do.
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot" volume >> surrounding your dicks. That's your world!Pathetic
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks of oldArsehole.
grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read Bible on your >> computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.
Fucking idiots.
On 08/02/2025 23:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealthI found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
and many women?
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
I did end up with many women first, then a powerful technologist with money. In the end none of it was that important. It all 'just happened' while I was busy doing something else.
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/8/25 2:28 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain.
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year -
I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since. >>>>
I took ONE programming class - FORTRAN - punch cards -
and then wormed my way into profitable endeavours.
Stuck to the medium/small enterprises and thus avoided
most of the 'Dilbert' horrors. My forte was kinda
one-off 'scientific'/real-world stuff ... good data-
loggers and sensing and the software that went with
them. Liked that a lot - dead low-level soldering of
transistors on hand-made boards on up. Had to become
more "IT" towards the end - servers/NAS/net/etc - but
it wasn't as fun. When new management thought it was
a great idea to go all M$/cloud, I retired.
Excellent choice!
I am very excited, I am working on an opportunity to replace Azure at
one customer. At another I managed to get them to release the grip of
20% of their Azure environment. I hope to be able to get the remaining
80% this year.
Instead of that crap, it will be very beautiful, linux and openstack
based instead. Oh, and the customer pays less as well, and is protected against crypto miners by actually having a hardware limit on how much resources can be used.
Old sage Steve Ciarcia once said his favorite
programming languages was "solder" ... I'm kinda
in agreement :-)
On 2025-02-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
That was true of all the Wirthian languages, wasn't it?
I've heard them referred to as "bondage and discipline" languages.
I fell in love with assembly language at first sight. It was so nice
to have a machine that would just do what I wanted in a couple of instructions, rather than jumping through all the hoops you had to
do to coax a high-level language to do it. (Yes, you could also
shoot yourself in the foot, but that's part of the learning process.)
Didactic computer languages tend to emphasize concepts over utility. I
spent a winter a long time ago working my way through the Wizard book
which used Scheme. I found the concepts interesting but the back of my
mind kept saying 'Why would you ever do it this way?'
I once had a term project reviewed by the department head, who happened
to be one of the Algol 68 development teams. Every so often he would
pause and, in pain, say, "Why did you do it in assembly language?"
Ten years later, along came C, which was a godsend.
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 03:18:54 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
For the record, I just LOVE Pascal ... still do lots of apps small
and large in FPC/Lazarus. May proto in Python, but often the goal is
to re-do it in Pascal.
SOME languages are a little TOO much 'ideology'.
Wirth managed to balance the equation. Both ideology AND very
practical.
I started using Pascal back with the pink-label multi-pass IBM
compilers. Never went back. 'C' is Just Great - but Pascal is far
more easy to *understand* and is just 'elegant'.
Pascal treated me well :) It was used as a didactic language at
University of Maine and the Sprague Electric plant at Sanford ME tended to hire engineers from there. For whatever its virtues process control or manipulating a robot arm with 5 degrees of freedom weren't among them. I
was contracted to develop modules, dlls, or whatever the Pascal term was
to bridge the gap.
STILL have a VM of DOS with the multi-pass Pascal compiler - and DO
stuff in it from time to time.
https://www.freepascal.org/
I did buy Borland TurboPascal for CP/M mostly because I was curious what
$50 would get you. It was so much faster than the BDS C compiler I thought something went wrong with my 'hello world' attempt.
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot"Pathetic
volume surrounding your dicks. That's your world!
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
This is the truth. I do not think the guy ever attended university. It
could
also be a bad attempt at trolling. But trolling is an art form! It takes grace,
wit, ingenuity, and I do not see that in his statement so far.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks ofArsehole.
old grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read
Bible on your computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.
Fucking idiots.
Anything Azure can do, Linux can do better - and cheaper.
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state
when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I often thought about perhaps returning for a Ph.D. in philosophy, but
then my political incorrectness pops up, my energy and hankering for
results and the pragmatic, and I realize that I'd probably abort the
attempt after a year in frustration.
Then I think, what if I finance it and pay for it myself?
And then I think that perhaps there are better things to do with my
life. 😉
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state
when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
On 2/9/25 4:44 PM, D wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot"Pathetic
volume surrounding your dicks. That's your world!
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
This is the truth. I do not think the guy ever attended university. It
could
also be a bad attempt at trolling. But trolling is an art form! It
takes grace,
wit, ingenuity, and I do not see that in his statement so far.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks ofArsehole.
old grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read
Bible on your computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.
Fucking idiots.
I think he's just pissed because he got a computer
science degree and is filling cups at Starbucks
while the horrible dirty stupid 'engineers' are
making 6-digits :-)
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 23:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth >>>> and many women?I found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is
enough.
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
I did end up with many women first, then a powerful technologist with
money.
In the end none of it was that important. It all 'just happened'
while I was busy doing something else.
So would you have traded it for something else?
My specialty is turning down women, because they do not reach my
aesthetical standards! ;)
When it comes to the powerful technologist with money part, how come
your ego has not been inflated to dangerous levels, and you then
continuing with moonshot projects or tanning your self in the adoration
of the the public?
On 2/9/25 2:45 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I've been super nice to you, leaving my dick in charge to teach you "engineers" and technicians stuff your Dads never did. Never could.
Otherwise, you'd never hear from my dick. Imagine your chances of
finding those stuff out by yourselves.. Hehe :)
On 2/9/25 4:44 PM, D wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot"Pathetic
volume surrounding your dicks. That's your world!
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
This is the truth. I do not think the guy ever attended university. It
could
also be a bad attempt at trolling. But trolling is an art form! It takes
grace,
wit, ingenuity, and I do not see that in his statement so far.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks of old >>>> grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read Bible on >>>> your computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.Arsehole.
Fucking idiots.
I think he's just pissed because he got a computer
science degree and is filling cups at Starbucks
while the horrible dirty stupid 'engineers' are
making 6-digits :-)
On 2/9/25 5:41 AM, D wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/8/25 2:28 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 18:17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:I took ONE programming class - FORTRAN - punch cards -
My university computer science courses left me quite disillusioned.Yeah. You don't need a degree in hydraulics to fix a kitchen sink drain. >>>
Between my second and third years I managed to land a summer job
programming in a small shop in the real world. For my third year
I arranged my schedule so that I had Thursdays off, and continued
to work at my part-time programming job. There was no fourth year - >>>>> I dropped out and went full-time, and have been programming ever since. >>>>>
and then wormed my way into profitable endeavours.
Stuck to the medium/small enterprises and thus avoided
most of the 'Dilbert' horrors. My forte was kinda
one-off 'scientific'/real-world stuff ... good data-
loggers and sensing and the software that went with
them. Liked that a lot - dead low-level soldering of
transistors on hand-made boards on up. Had to become
more "IT" towards the end - servers/NAS/net/etc - but
it wasn't as fun. When new management thought it was
a great idea to go all M$/cloud, I retired.
Excellent choice!
I am very excited, I am working on an opportunity to replace Azure at one
customer. At another I managed to get them to release the grip of 20% of
their Azure environment. I hope to be able to get the remaining 80% this
year.
Instead of that crap, it will be very beautiful, linux and openstack based >> instead. Oh, and the customer pays less as well, and is protected against
crypto miners by actually having a hardware limit on how much resources can >> be used.
Anything Azure can do, Linux can do better - and cheaper.
But, obviously, there's not gonna be endless slick TV
ads and visiting salesmen there to convince the bosses
to go the Linux path ....
Old sage Steve Ciarcia once said his favorite
programming languages was "solder" ... I'm kinda
in agreement :-)
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 20:46:43 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Anything Azure can do, Linux can do better - and cheaper.
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/linux-on-azure/
Azure is a cloud provider the same as AWS. If you want to run Linux, fine.
In fact they have their own version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Linux
I am more familiar with AWS but I wouldn't be surprised if the whole operation isn't running on Linux. Amazon has their own version.
https://aws.amazon.com/what-is/kvm/
We have several clients that use Stratus HA systems. As far as they're concerned the VMs are Windows. If you poke around with WireShark or
similar utilities you find the whole shebang is running on RHEL and using KVM. Stratus originally used Xen but switched. That may have been RHEL switching.
It's back to the ongoing argument. Desktop Linux may be a niche thing but when you look at what's holding up most of the infrastructure it's Linux.
On 09/02/2025 21:41, D wrote:
I often thought about perhaps returning for a Ph.D. in philosophy, but then >> my political incorrectness pops up, my energy and hankering for results and >> the pragmatic, and I realize that I'd probably abort the attempt after aSame here, but then you have to learn to reproduce all the stupid crap that's been written by complete arseholes over the years and learn to talk a 'special language' that isn't what anyone outside philosophy understands and by the time you have done that you have forgotten what it was you wanted to learn in the first place.
year in frustration.
Then I think, what if I finance it and pay for it myself?Indeed. Buy the books, read the texts, think about what they say and then throw the book in the bin.
And then I think that perhaps there are better things to do with my life.
😉
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days I
think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state when I >> can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
Yup. Life's a bitch, and then you die. What is the point of anything really?
You think you have something important to say but very soon you realise no one wants to hear it. It's comfortable being a dumb sheep and people want to stay that way: happy, dumb, ignorant and believing in shit because it's easier than facing reality.
And works just as well for the purposes of procreation etc.
On 10/02/2025 03:37, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/9/25 4:44 PM, D wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Hehe :) "Real-world". Your worlds are each limited to 1 cubic "foot" >>>>> volume surrounding your dicks. That's your world!Pathetic
The real world is being explored inside universities, morons.
This is the truth. I do not think the guy ever attended university. It
could
also be a bad attempt at trolling. But trolling is an art form! It takes >>> grace,
wit, ingenuity, and I do not see that in his statement so far.
"Engineer" stench's so abundant here in this hellhole it stinks of old >>>>> grrrime.. You're a bunch of technicians. Nothing beyond. Read Bible on >>>>> your computers. Vote a thug into White House with it.Arsehole.
Fucking idiots.
I think he's just pissed because he got a computer
science degree and is filling cups at Starbucks
while the horrible dirty stupid 'engineers' are
making 6-digits :-)
You may well have hit upon something there. :-)
There is a definite flavour of twitter and bisted ...
On 09/02/2025 21:46, D wrote:
A gentleman never turns down a woman.
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2025 23:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth >>>>> and many women?I found a niche job. Not wealthy, not hurting. And one woman is enough.
I have strange ideas of success, so that'll do.
I did end up with many women first, then a powerful technologist with
money.
In the end none of it was that important. It all 'just happened' while I >>> was busy doing something else.
So would you have traded it for something else?
My specialty is turning down women, because they do not reach my
aesthetical standards! ;)
It took me a long time to learn how not to be one.
When it comes to the powerful technologist with money part, how come your
ego has not been inflated to dangerous levels, and you then continuing with >> moonshot projects or tanning your self in the adoration of the the public?
Where's the fun in that?
I'd rather watch the sun go down than a rocket go up.
Hell is being noticed by people.
On 10/02/2025 03:06, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 2/9/25 2:45 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Yawn.
I've been super nice to you, leaving my dick in charge to teach you
"engineers" and technicians stuff your Dads never did. Never could.
Otherwise, you'd never hear from my dick. Imagine your chances of finding
those stuff out by yourselves.. Hehe :)
What is the sound of one hand wanking?
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 22:41:32 +0100, D wrote:
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days I
think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state
when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I gave it some thought years ago but I would have to move and that's not happening.
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system[snip]
that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python.
On 2/8/25 4:16 PM, D wrote:[snip]
Were you successful? Did you become a powerful technologist with wealth
and many women?
Not everybody defines "success" the same way :-)
Me, my social skills are more like "Sheldon", so I'd
have had to make billions and know a good yacht-designer
to find nubile insincere women who could ignore that :-)
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 22:41:32 +0100, D wrote:Isn't it possible to go to school remotely? I think this would not be impossible in sweden. At most you probably have to show up in person
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days
I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state
when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I gave it some thought years ago but I would have to move and that's
not happening.
once or twice a year or so.
It turned out that Azure had done something weird when emulating NIC:s
inside their VM:s, which broke the clustering of the SAP environment
when moved from on prem to the cloud.
I'd rather watch the sun go down than a rocket go up.
I buy them coffee and cinnamon rolls, so this is a great advantage!
On 2/10/25 2:38 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 22:41:32 +0100, D wrote:
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days
I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state
when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I gave it some thought years ago but I would have to move and that's
not happening.
Always took a psych course for an easy GPA boost :-)
They're still pretending it's a real science.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system[snip]
that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM
hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python.
Did you use something like tkinter?
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 12:08:00 +0100, D wrote:
It turned out that Azure had done something weird when emulating NIC:s
inside their VM:s, which broke the clustering of the SAP environment
when moved from on prem to the cloud.
Back before multicore processors I would have to remind people that no
matter how sophisticated the OS was you had one CPU executing one
instruction at a time. Then came VMs, with the stress on 'virtual'. When
you get down to bare metal if you have one NIC there's a whole lot of juggling going on.
Back in the day we had a fairly sophisticated technique to mirror the live system on a physically remote backup system. As bare metal systems were replaced by VMs I had a hard time persuading our support people that their time honored setup wasn't too useful when the live system and backup
system were VMs running on the same hardware. It's conceivable a VM could crash and the switchover would work but if a rat chews through the power cable they're all going down.
We also ran into problems with the specs on a HA system. Short story, if
you want to mirror you'd better have a big pipe.
Like most of life a high level abstraction is fine but you need to step
back every now and then and look at physical reality since there ain't no other reality.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 12:08:46 +0100, D wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 22:41:32 +0100, D wrote:Isn't it possible to go to school remotely? I think this would not be
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days >>>> I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state >>>> when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I gave it some thought years ago but I would have to move and that's
not happening.
impossible in sweden. At most you probably have to show up in person
once or twice a year or so.
It is, and I have taken several courses remotely. If you poke around there are quite a few offerings that are free to audit. I'm currently doing a ML course from Duke. Like IRL courses some are much better than others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Academy
I'm using that as a brush up on linear algebra. ML depends on it but most
ML tutorials gloss over the underlying math. Numpy, Sci-learn, PyTorch, TensorFlow, and the like handle the grunt work but if you're curious yu
need some familiarity with linear. Like differential equations I haven't
had a need for it for 50 years or more so a review helps.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 12:04:25 +0100, D wrote:
I buy them coffee and cinnamon rolls, so this is a great advantage!
Whatever happened to bourbon and hookers?
I buy them coffee and cinnamon rolls, so this is a great advantage!
Whatever happened to bourbon and hookers?
Wrong country. If I lived in the US, this might be arranged. ;)
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system[snip]
that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that
IBM
hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in
python.
Did you use something like tkinter?
Hmm, it was a long time ago, so I no longer remember. I _think_ it was
some kind of graph library that enabled you to generate graphics based
on some kind of node and vertice notation. It then generated a pdf which
you would zoom into, which visualized all the dependencies of all the
batch jobs. Sorry, that's about the best I can do. The code is long lost
in time, like tears in rain.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system[snip]
that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM
hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python.
Did you use something like tkinter?
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 12:04:25 +0100, D wrote:
I buy them coffee and cinnamon rolls, so this is a great advantage!
Whatever happened to bourbon and hookers?
Wrong country. If I lived in the US, this might be arranged. ;)
Are you gearing up for a project or just for fun?
TK is also pretty well documented since it's been around for awhile.
Actually none of the graphics toolkits are particularly 'elegant' or
great joys to use so go with what seems easiest for the job.
Mostly if I need something with a quickie GUI then I use Lazarus/FPC
when possible. The WYSIWYG form builder with a zillion possible
options is WAY nicer than the line-at-a-time TK approach plus Pascal
looks much nicer than Python or 'C'.
It boggles my mind that all these years later, Visual Basic is *still* (putting aside design issues with the language itself and bugs/oddities
in the runtime) one of the very few examples of a "GUI-builder" IDE/
language that really does it *right.*
FPC/Lazarus looks like another,You ought to see how clumsy and useless LibreOffice Base is. And Kexi.
but it's truly baffling to me just how clumsy and awkward the majority
of the rest are.
And PyQt apps often run unchanged on Windows, Linux and MacOS.
But the licensing is silly and expensive for commercial apps.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 07:59:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'd rather watch the sun go down than a rocket go up.
One evening I watched the sun go down from a remote area in Nevada where I was camping. As I admired the night sky a rocket went up. It was damn impressive.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 07:48:43 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/10/25 2:38 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 22:41:32 +0100, D wrote:
Some days I think about going back to study psychology, and other days >>>> I think about getting a law degree for the pleasure of suing the state >>>> when I can, but I can do that without a law degree, so why bother?
I gave it some thought years ago but I would have to move and that's
not happening.
Always took a psych course for an easy GPA boost :-)
They're still pretending it's a real science.
It all depends. My degree is in psychology but I was a rat runner. I know
a lot about neurophysiology and except for a survey course nothing about Rogers' client centered therapy and all that woo-woo stuff. Twenty years later and I would have went for cognitive science but it hadn't been
invented yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neuron
It all started with the perceptron. In the '80s it was 'neural networks', with back propagation refining the algorithms. Unfortunately hardware of
the day wasn't up to the task and the field was over promised. When it was revitalized the name was changed to 'machine learning' to protect the innocent. By then saying 'neural network' was career suicide.
And here we are now with AI. Depending on how you count this is the third cycle of promising the world, falling on your ass, and going back to the drawing board for a decade or two.
But, it all started with a branch of psychology: how does that wetware
work?
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 20:00:10 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I've always been impressed with things like baby cows and horses and
even elephants. They pop out and within an hour are trotting around
and acting all appropriate. Where did human ancestors go wrong ???
Elephants are smart large-brained critters too - not like 'born
ready'
is limited to pinheaded things. NNs should aim at being E-lephants
when you press the "ON" button, with a lot of How To and How To Do
Better already burned in there.
That was one of the historic battles. The department head was an old
school behaviorist so that set the tone. Chomsky though there was some
sort of linguistic framework wired into the brain that was fleshed out by experience. Skinner thought it was all learned behavior.
Phylogeny versus ontogeny with culture thrown in on the side. It can be a minefield.
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 18:31:13 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
TK is also pretty well documented since it's been around for awhile.
Actually none of the graphics toolkits are particularly 'elegant' or
great joys to use so go with what seems easiest for the job.
That's got to be the understatement of the week.
Mostly if I need something with a quickie GUI then I use Lazarus/FPC
when possible. The WYSIWYG form builder with a zillion possible
options is WAY nicer than the line-at-a-time TK approach plus Pascal
looks much nicer than Python or 'C'.
https://realpython.com/qt-designer-python/
That talks about PyQt but I use PySide6. I'll skip the rant about
Riverside Computing, TrollTech, and my thoughts on Pascal.
y. Learning curve isn't TOO steep
and once you Get It you can really go to town.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 00:23:16 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
y. Learning curve isn't TOO steep
and once you Get It you can really go to town.
Steeper than I'm going to deal with. I haven't used the language since TurboPascal on CP/M and I never did much with it back then.
On 2/10/25 4:50 PM, D wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 12:04:25 +0100, D wrote:
I buy them coffee and cinnamon rolls, so this is a great advantage!
Whatever happened to bourbon and hookers?
Wrong country. If I lived in the US, this might be arranged. ;)
Well, the cinnamon+coffee is probably appropriate
to the left coast :-)
Dallas - bourbon, strippers and bootleg Cuban cigars :-)
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 21:54:27 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
As for "bondage" ... not sure where you heard that. Pascal - esp the
later Borland-derived versions - are a great all-purpose environment
and you can actually READ yer code a year later.
Turbo Pascal didn't come 'round until 1983, though - a whopping 13
years into the language's history. And some of Wirth's staggering mis- features earned the B&D label all by themselves ("solving" bounds-
checking issues by making array size part of the type specification is something only a truly demented brain could ever conceive of.)
Of course, there were other extended versions of the language predating
TP - but, as Brian Kernighan famously observed, they mostly just made
it look more like whatever language the implementors *really* wanted.
People forget that the original IBM-PCs came with both DOS and CP/M
disks. You CAN run CP/M-86 in VirtualBox BTW. Up through the Quad-4
Intel processors you could BOOT the CP/M disk. Still have one box
with a Quad processor and real floppy drive. Gonna keep it ! Gateways
to the past as as important as gateways to the future.
On 2/9/25 3:41 PM, D wrote:
your words show you're a high school drop out.
Really? I thought it was only appropriate for sweden, but there you go.
Dallas - bourbon, strippers and bootleg Cuban cigars
This is the truth! I once met a salesman from Dallas and he said that
his best customer always called him to discuss business in some kind of stripping place.
He would always sigh, grab fistfuls of one dollar bills, and sit there feeding his customer 1 dollar bills while some woman was dancing in
front of him, not appreciating it much.
But it would always work, and he would always come away from those
meetings with a signed contract in hand. =)
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 12:03:31 +0100, D wrote:
Really? I thought it was only appropriate for sweden, but there you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvang,_California
Okay, so its Danish. Close enough.
Dallas - bourbon, strippers and bootleg Cuban cigars
This is the truth! I once met a salesman from Dallas and he said that
his best customer always called him to discuss business in some kind of
stripping place.
He would always sigh, grab fistfuls of one dollar bills, and sit there
feeding his customer 1 dollar bills while some woman was dancing in
front of him, not appreciating it much.
But it would always work, and he would always come away from those
meetings with a signed contract in hand. =)
That is how business was conducted in the first few companies I worked
for. It wasn't always a strip joint although the VP of the first company
did have a thing for strippers, but most of the real work was done in
bars, sometimes with the system design done on a napkins.
There were snags. In the middle of a large project one of the client's
people came to view the progress. His reputation preceded him. Straight arrow, didn't drink, didn't chew, and didn't go with girls who do. The
sales department had a melt down. "What the hell are we going to do with him?"
Travel in those circles and you get the impression the country is run by
high functioning alcoholics.
On 2/9/25 6:32 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula.
Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language
that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp
needed some improvement before it was useful too.
That was true of all the Wirthian languages, wasn't it?
I've heard them referred to as "bondage and discipline" languages.
Early ALGOL didn't even have I/O per-se. It was
an educational demo, not real-world. The last
versions were much more usable.
Pascal/Modula ... kinda "improved ALGOL".
As for "bondage" ... not sure where you heard
that. Pascal - esp the later Borland-derived
versions - are a great all-purpose environment
and you can actually READ yer code a year later.
Modula-2/3 were a little more 'stiff', but still
usable. Can't find a native M3 compiler for Linux
that will install correctly alas ...
If you want B&D, look up little Miss ADA :-)
Of course, there were other extended versions of the language predating
TP - but, as Brian Kernighan famously observed, they mostly just made
it look more like whatever language the implementors *really* wanted.
Procreation is overrated. ;) My genes already exists numerous times all
over the planet, although not in their current configuration. Having a
child will not change that. I am already immortal! ;)
Ahh... those were better times. But with complicated system designs,
how did you join several 100s of napkins together?
Or was one napkin the constraint put on all the designs?
As for the Ada the language (note the lack of excess capitals), it
looked too governmental and bloated. Besides, I already had C.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 02:04:13 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
People forget that the original IBM-PCs came with both DOS and CP/M
disks. You CAN run CP/M-86 in VirtualBox BTW. Up through the Quad-4
Intel processors you could BOOT the CP/M disk. Still have one box
with a Quad processor and real floppy drive. Gonna keep it ! Gateways
to the past as as important as gateways to the future.
I never ran CP/M-86. I don't remember when I bought my first IBM-PC clone
but I definitely wasn't an early adopter. By the time I got there it was
all over but the shouting.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 12:03:31 +0100, D wrote:
Really? I thought it was only appropriate for sweden, but there you go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvang,_California
Okay, so its Danish. Close enough.
Dallas - bourbon, strippers and bootleg Cuban cigars
This is the truth! I once met a salesman from Dallas and he said that
his best customer always called him to discuss business in some kind of
stripping place.
He would always sigh, grab fistfuls of one dollar bills, and sit there
feeding his customer 1 dollar bills while some woman was dancing in
front of him, not appreciating it much.
But it would always work, and he would always come away from those
meetings with a signed contract in hand. =)
That is how business was conducted in the first few companies I worked
for. It wasn't always a strip joint although the VP of the first company
did have a thing for strippers, but most of the real work was done in
bars, sometimes with the system design done on a napkins.
There were snags. In the middle of a large project one of the client's
people came to view the progress. His reputation preceded him. Straight arrow, didn't drink, didn't chew, and didn't go with girls who do. The
sales department had a melt down. "What the hell are we going to do with him?"
Travel in those circles and you get the impression the country is run by
high functioning alcoholics.
On 2025-02-10, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
On 2/9/25 6:32 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-02-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:36:12 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Maybe the best cross-over was Professor Wirth with Pascal/Modula. >>>>> Alas it was a shorter fence to straddle back then ....
Before it was adapted for the real world Pascal was known as a language >>>> that excelled at telling itself secrets. I/O was an afterthought. Lisp >>>> needed some improvement before it was useful too.
That was true of all the Wirthian languages, wasn't it?
I've heard them referred to as "bondage and discipline" languages.
Early ALGOL didn't even have I/O per-se. It was
an educational demo, not real-world. The last
versions were much more usable.
Pascal/Modula ... kinda "improved ALGOL".
As for "bondage" ... not sure where you heard
that. Pascal - esp the later Borland-derived
versions - are a great all-purpose environment
and you can actually READ yer code a year later.
I always thought of it in the sense of "If you can't
do anything, you can't do anything wrong."
Modula-2/3 were a little more 'stiff', but still
usable. Can't find a native M3 compiler for Linux
that will install correctly alas ...
If you want B&D, look up little Miss ADA :-)
<shudder> Now you've got me trying to erase images
of kinky stuff with someone from the Americans with
Disabilities Association.
As for the Ada the language (note the lack of excess
capitals), it looked too governmental and bloated.
Besides, I already had C.
As for Ada's Dungeon ... it's more than just bloated and governmental
- it's a painful bowel obstruction.
DOS turned out to be easier to deal with, so it won.
Bill Gates also won because his lawyers sneaked-in a small-print item
requiring IBM to always include his latest system along with their
PCs - and the IBM lawyers MISSED it.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 20:43:33 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
DOS turned out to be easier to deal with, so it won.
Bill Gates also won because his lawyers sneaked-in a small-print item
requiring IBM to always include his latest system along with their
PCs - and the IBM lawyers MISSED it.
There were a few other things going on like a suit against IBM by Digital Research. DR won so IBM had to offer CP/M-86 but it was priced much higher than DOS.
CP/M-68K would have been interesting but there weren't too many platforms. Lisa was a flop and the original Mac wasn't that great. Other than high
end systems that left Atari and Commodore, both of which had sort of a non-serious reputation.
Sprague Electric used Commodore PETs. Besides playing snake they used GPIB for the peripherals, aka HPIB. You could hook them to HP instrumentation a lot cheaper than buying a HP computer.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 20:57:41 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
As for Ada's Dungeon ... it's more than just bloated and governmental
- it's a painful bowel obstruction.
Considering the number of software malfunctions in the F-35 and other
recent projects I have to conclude either nobody really uses Ada for DoD projects or it isn't very good at what it's supposed to do.
John Ames wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 21:54:27 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
As for "bondage" ... not sure where you heard that. Pascal - esp the
later Borland-derived versions - are a great all-purpose environment
and you can actually READ yer code a year later.
Turbo Pascal didn't come 'round until 1983, though - a whopping 13
years into the language's history. And some of Wirth's staggering mis-
features earned the B&D label all by themselves ("solving" bounds-
checking issues by making array size part of the type specification is
something only a truly demented brain could ever conceive of.)
Can you say "std::array<>"?
I knew you could. :-)
Of course, there were other extended versions of the language predating
TP - but, as Brian Kernighan famously observed, they mostly just made
it look more like whatever language the implementors *really* wanted.
I too lament a relative lack of 68K boxes. It was a fine chip. It is
said IBM considered it, but the prices - purchase + design - were
more than it wanted for a product they didn't know would be
successful. Not sure Motorola could have produced enough of them at
the time either.
Always wanted a PET ... but didn't have the $$$ back when they were
popular. The C64 was "better" in a number of ways, but it didn't come
in the stylish all-in-one case
Also, there can sometimes be a gulf between programmers and Real
World. Not a great idea having office monkeys writing code for an
actual aircraft.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 22:03:44 +0100, D wrote:
Ahh... those were better times. But with complicated system designs,
how did you join several 100s of napkins together?
Or was one napkin the constraint put on all the designs?
You can get a lot on a napkin. One night at the Ramada Inn bar I got into
a discussion with a contractor who was calling on one of the defense industries in the area. I roughed out a scheme for an electronic firing system for something like a mini-gun. It must have been good because he called me the next day with a job offer. I declined because I couldn't remember what sort of smoke I had been blowing the night before.
Yeah, I was definitely in that culture.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 20:43:33 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
DOS turned out to be easier to deal with, so it won.
Bill Gates also won because his lawyers sneaked-in a small-print item
requiring IBM to always include his latest system along with their
PCs - and the IBM lawyers MISSED it.
There were a few other things going on like a suit against IBM by Digital Research. DR won so IBM had to offer CP/M-86 but it was priced much higher than DOS.
CP/M-68K would have been interesting but there weren't too many platforms. Lisa was a flop and the original Mac wasn't that great. Other than high
end systems that left Atari and Commodore, both of which had sort of a non-serious reputation.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 22:50:21 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I too lament a relative lack of 68K boxes. It was a fine chip. It is
said IBM considered it, but the prices - purchase + design - were
more than it wanted for a product they didn't know would be
successful. Not sure Motorola could have produced enough of them at
the time either.
They had used the 8085 in the System/23 so it was somewhat familiar territory. iirc the 68008 wasn't quite ready for prime time either and all those dirt cheap 8bit peripherals were so enticing.
Always wanted a PET ... but didn't have the $$$ back when they were
popular. The C64 was "better" in a number of ways, but it didn't come
in the stylish all-in-one case
I saw one of the 4000 series sitting on a trash can a few years ago but sometimes I have brief flashes of sanity. The PET was way behind the
TRS-80 in sales but the C64 was a real winner. Commodore is another one of the sad stories of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not entirely sure why CBM crashed and burned.
I think the 86 series had 'more future possibilities'
than the 8085. There were too many 8-bit systems out there already,
so bumping up to 16 bit was smart for sales. Why make/compete-with
"just another TRS-80" ?
Lisa was a flop because it didn't make any kind of sense to ask people
to spend as much on a computer than they would on a car. It was a very capable machine, and it was nice to discover that the Lisa went on to be refurbished as popular Macs in certain areas of the United States, but
you can't ask people to spend as much as they were asking. As for the
Mac 128K, I admit that if I were buying a computer in 1984, I would have wanted one. Of course, I would probably very quickly buy a hard disk and
a RAM upgrade for it. If I were buying in 1985 though, I'm certain that
I would have opted for either an Atari or an Amiga though... probably
the Amiga if I had witnessed their impressive tech demo. It wouldn't
have mattered to me, as a teacher, if it didn't have a serious
reputation or not.
On 2/10/25 1:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system
that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM >>> hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python. >> [snip]
Did you use something like tkinter?
TKinter works. Not ultra-elegant but functional.
I've used it for several projects with pop-up
windows and touch-screens and such. Did find that
you get less grief if you don't CLOSE those windows
but just send 'em off to negative screen coords.
Then on signal from a touch-screen or timer or
whatever you just drag 'em back into view and
make whatever updates.
TK is also pretty well documented since it's been
around for awhile. Actually none of the graphics
toolkits are particularly 'elegant' or great joys
to use so go with what seems easiest for the job.
Mostly if I need something with a quickie GUI then
I use Lazarus/FPC when possible. The WYSIWYG form
builder with a zillion possible options is WAY nicer
than the line-at-a-time TK approach plus Pascal looks
much nicer than Python or 'C'.
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote at 16:17 this Wednesday (GMT):
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:29:43 -0500 "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net"
<WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
Nothing wrong, or unique, about fixed-size arrays. You don't want them
for some stuff, do want them for other stuff. CAN elim a lot of
range-checking code.
Nothing wrong with fixed-size arrays as a general concept, no. Treating
the size as *part of the type specification* so that passing ARRAY
[1..15] OF CHAR to a function expecting ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR yields a
type mismatch is what's utterly demented; a true Wirth original, that.
I have never yet heard a sensible case made for a language where array
sizes are known, but no FOR EACH IN (x) construct is provided. Doing it
C's way at least offers you flexibility and performance in exchange for
the risk of shooting yourself in the foot; offering a way to iterate
transparently across arrays of arbitrary size at least gives you safety
and convenience in exchange for the performance penalty of bounds-
checking. Wirth's approach offers the worst of both worlds, for no
material gain whatsoever - absolutely bonkers.
If you really need to, you can also pass by pointer?
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:29:43 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
Nothing wrong, or unique, about fixed-size arrays. You don't want
them for some stuff, do want them for other stuff. CAN elim a lot of
range-checking code.
Nothing wrong with fixed-size arrays as a general concept, no. Treating
the size as *part of the type specification* so that passing ARRAY
[1..15] OF CHAR to a function expecting ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR yields a
type mismatch is what's utterly demented; a true Wirth original, that.
I have never yet heard a sensible case made for a language where array
sizes are known, but no FOR EACH IN (x) construct is provided. Doing it
C's way at least offers you flexibility and performance in exchange for
the risk of shooting yourself in the foot; offering a way to iterate transparently across arrays of arbitrary size at least gives you safety
and convenience in exchange for the performance penalty of bounds-
checking. Wirth's approach offers the worst of both worlds, for no
material gain whatsoever - absolutely bonkers.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:08:35 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Lisa was a flop because it didn't make any kind of sense to ask people
to spend as much on a computer than they would on a car. It was a very
capable machine, and it was nice to discover that the Lisa went on to be
refurbished as popular Macs in certain areas of the United States, but
you can't ask people to spend as much as they were asking. As for the
Mac 128K, I admit that if I were buying a computer in 1984, I would have
wanted one. Of course, I would probably very quickly buy a hard disk and
a RAM upgrade for it. If I were buying in 1985 though, I'm certain that
I would have opted for either an Atari or an Amiga though... probably
the Amiga if I had witnessed their impressive tech demo. It wouldn't
have mattered to me, as a teacher, if it didn't have a serious
reputation or not.
The original Mac toasters had one unique feature -- they met the TEMPEST requirements of the day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
PCs leaked like a sieve. Most still do. Back in the toaster's day cybersecurity was worrying about Boris and Natasha squatting out in the bushes with their radio gear.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 12:25:17 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
I think the 86 series had 'more future possibilities'
than the 8085. There were too many 8-bit systems out there already,
so bumping up to 16 bit was smart for sales. Why make/compete-with
"just another TRS-80" ?
16/32 bit processors were in the air so it would make no sense to stay
with 8 bits.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-inside-story-of-texas-instruments-biggest- blunder-the-tms9900-microprocessor
That covers the ground from a slightly different perspective, a TI
engineer. It's interesting to speculate on IBM's view of future possibilities. A large part of the company didn't think there was a
future. Intel thought the 432 was the future but that fell on its face.
Using the 8088 solved the peripherals problem but it also meant the performance wasn't better than a Z80. Z80 designs were already doing bank switching. The 8088 just had the additional registers to implement it.
The TMS9900 wasn't a bad chip, if a little odd if you came from the Intel/ Zilog world. I worked with it on one project. Because of TI's roots they
had a rad hard version
https://retrocomputingforum.com/t/the-texas-instruments-tms-9900- microprocessor/1370
That's a good description of the oddities.
The first article points out the IBM was big-endian and suddenly thy were transported into the little-endian world. Our legacy software uses ONC-RPC which handle the byte order. Originally the system ran on RS6000 machines where the reshuffling was a NOOP. As we started using Linux in house for development, the x86 machines had to reverse the canonical big-endian
data. No problem. Then our clients moved to Windows while we still used
Linux leading to the absurdity of dual processing to move little-endian to big-endian and back to little-endian.
All that is hidden in the RPC code but it becomes explicit when you find yourself using htonl, ntohl, and friends when building a socket
connection.
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote at 16:17 this Wednesday (GMT):
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:29:43 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
Nothing wrong, or unique, about fixed-size arrays. You don't want
them for some stuff, do want them for other stuff. CAN elim a lot of
range-checking code.
Nothing wrong with fixed-size arrays as a general concept, no. Treating
the size as *part of the type specification* so that passing ARRAY
[1..15] OF CHAR to a function expecting ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR yields a
type mismatch is what's utterly demented; a true Wirth original, that.
I have never yet heard a sensible case made for a language where array
sizes are known, but no FOR EACH IN (x) construct is provided. Doing it
C's way at least offers you flexibility and performance in exchange for
the risk of shooting yourself in the foot; offering a way to iterate
transparently across arrays of arbitrary size at least gives you safety
and convenience in exchange for the performance penalty of bounds-
checking. Wirth's approach offers the worst of both worlds, for no
material gain whatsoever - absolutely bonkers.
If you really need to, you can also pass by pointer?
WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote at 23:31 this Monday (GMT):
On 2/10/25 1:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system >>>> that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM >>>> hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python. >>> [snip]
Did you use something like tkinter?
TKinter works. Not ultra-elegant but functional.
I've used it for several projects with pop-up
windows and touch-screens and such. Did find that
you get less grief if you don't CLOSE those windows
but just send 'em off to negative screen coords.
Then on signal from a touch-screen or timer or
whatever you just drag 'em back into view and
make whatever updates.
TK is also pretty well documented since it's been
around for awhile. Actually none of the graphics
toolkits are particularly 'elegant' or great joys
to use so go with what seems easiest for the job.
Mostly if I need something with a quickie GUI then
I use Lazarus/FPC when possible. The WYSIWYG form
builder with a zillion possible options is WAY nicer
than the line-at-a-time TK approach plus Pascal looks
much nicer than Python or 'C'.
I would still probably use TK for a really quick GUI, but I prefer
terminal ui's nowadays.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 17:09:18 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
As for including size info in arrays ... makes good sense to me. EZ
to know what you're dealing with. Liked the old short-strings in
Turbo - the first byte was the string length.
There's definitely an argument to be made for including bounds info as
part of the array structure. There's no argument (that I've ever heard)
to be made for making it part of the *type specification.* Any line of reasoning that says a carton of six eggs and a carton of twelve eggs
are somehow different *kinds* of objects and their contents incomparable
is fundamentally deranged.
On 12/02/2025 22:54, John Ames wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 17:09:18 -0500The problem with languages designed to let stupid people program safely
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
As for including size info in arrays ... makes good sense to me. EZ
to know what you're dealing with. Liked the old short-strings in
Turbo - the first byte was the string length.
There's definitely an argument to be made for including bounds info as
part of the array structure. There's no argument (that I've ever heard)
to be made for making it part of the *type specification.* Any line of
reasoning that says a carton of six eggs and a carton of twelve eggs
are somehow different *kinds* of objects and their contents incomparable
is fundamentally deranged.
is that as in the case with all highest common factor legislation, the majority suffers to protect the few idiots from themselves.
There were some dual-chip jobbbies, bet-hedging.
One TRS-80 could be had with a 68k board that ran CP/M-68k and as I
recall the C128 had both a 65xx upgrade plus a Z80 that'd run CP/M.
On 2/12/25 1:58 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:08:35 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Lisa was a flop because it didn't make any kind of sense to ask people
to spend as much on a computer than they would on a car. It was a very
capable machine, and it was nice to discover that the Lisa went on to
be refurbished as popular Macs in certain areas of the United States,
but you can't ask people to spend as much as they were asking. As for
the Mac 128K, I admit that if I were buying a computer in 1984, I
would have wanted one. Of course, I would probably very quickly buy a
hard disk and a RAM upgrade for it. If I were buying in 1985 though,
I'm certain that I would have opted for either an Atari or an Amiga
though... probably the Amiga if I had witnessed their impressive tech
demo. It wouldn't have mattered to me, as a teacher, if it didn't have
a serious reputation or not.
The original Mac toasters had one unique feature -- they met the
TEMPEST requirements of the day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
PCs leaked like a sieve. Most still do. Back in the toaster's day
cybersecurity was worrying about Boris and Natasha squatting out in the
bushes with their radio gear.
Well - they DID sometimes !
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:24:40 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
There were some dual-chip jobbbies, bet-hedging.
One TRS-80 could be had with a 68k board that ran CP/M-68k and as I
recall the C128 had both a 65xx upgrade plus a Z80 that'd run CP/M.
Remember the SoftCard? iirc in its native state the Apple II keyboard
lacked something essential for C programming. Curly braces?
On 2/12/25 11:01 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2025 22:54, John Ames wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 17:09:18 -0500The problem with languages designed to let stupid people program
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
As for including size info in arrays ... makes good sense to me. EZ
to know what you're dealing with. Liked the old short-strings in
Turbo - the first byte was the string length.
There's definitely an argument to be made for including bounds info as
part of the array structure. There's no argument (that I've ever heard)
to be made for making it part of the *type specification.* Any line of
reasoning that says a carton of six eggs and a carton of twelve eggs
are somehow different *kinds* of objects and their contents incomparable >>> is fundamentally deranged.
safely is that as in the case with all highest common factor
legislation, the majority suffers to protect the few idiots from
themselves.
But IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY ???
There have always been some idiots in programming/development.
That percentage, for a number of reasons, seems to have steeply
increased.
Almost ALL of western economies absolutely DEPEND on the
net/cloud/systems in order to function - commerce, banking,
the infrastructure, transport, energy, supply/demand, mil
and security - ALL of it.
As it appears very difficult to weed out the idiots, and
years to create a new class of Competent, the second tier
approach is to COPE with them. Alas this means much more
'idiot-proof' computer languages/systems no matter the
cost/hassle to the competent fraction.
Nobody wants to hear this, but Real is Real.
As for including type info - limits and more - the effective
overhead in these days of gigabit flow and GHz multicore chips
is negligible. As such I'd say to include it one way or another.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:29:43 -0500
"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
Nothing wrong, or unique, about fixed-size arrays. You don't want
them for some stuff, do want them for other stuff. CAN elim a lot of
range-checking code.
Nothing wrong with fixed-size arrays as a general concept, no. Treating
the size as *part of the type specification* so that passing ARRAY
[1..15] OF CHAR to a function expecting ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR yields a
type mismatch is what's utterly demented; a true Wirth original, that.
I have never yet heard a sensible case made for a language where array
sizes are known, but no FOR EACH IN (x) construct is provided. Doing it
C's way at least offers you flexibility and performance in exchange for
the risk of shooting yourself in the foot; offering a way to iterate transparently across arrays of arbitrary size at least gives you safety
and convenience in exchange for the performance penalty of bounds-
checking. Wirth's approach offers the worst of both worlds, for no
material gain whatsoever - absolutely bonkers.
Pascal,
on the other hand, gets no performance advantage, while burdening the programmer with all the bookkeeping that is*necessary* for safety in languages like C, even though it keeps all the information needed to
provide a less burdensome, more convenient alternative. Truly deranged.
std::array<int, 5> arr = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5};
for (int element : arr)
std::cout << element << " ";
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 20:20:04 -0000 (UTC)[snip]
candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
If you really need to, you can also pass by pointer?
I admit I'm not deeply familiar with this, but AFAICT Pascal pointers
enforce type-safety as defined by the rest of the language, meaning
that (IIUC) you can pass a function that expects a pointer to an ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR any given ARRAY [1..10] OF CHAR, but trying to give it
a pointer to an ARRAY [1..15] OF CHAR would still be a type mismatch.
So what do you do, then? Refactor the function to accept a pointer to a single CHAR? Add individual wrapper functions to decompose arrays of
specific sizes into individual elements, and call the actual function
once per element? What if the function logic can't be serialized across individual elements?
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 07:44:54 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Turbo Pascal didn't come 'round until 1983, though - a whopping 13
years into the language's history. And some of Wirth's staggering
mis- features earned the B&D label all by themselves ("solving"
bounds- checking issues by making array size part of the type
specification is something only a truly demented brain could ever
conceive of.)
Can you say "std::array<>"?
I knew you could. :-)
C++ never met an idea too bad to copy ;)
On 2/12/25 3:20 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote at 23:31 this Monday (GMT):
On 2/10/25 1:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 21:19 this Saturday (GMT):
[snip]
My most powerful software was a multi-path checker to a storage system >>>>> that held a lot of pension money.
It was written in bash. =D
Ok, ok... I wrote a GUI for some kind of batch job mgmt software that IBM >>>>> hobbled together in order to trace dependencies, that was done in python. >>>> [snip]
Did you use something like tkinter?
TKinter works. Not ultra-elegant but functional.
I've used it for several projects with pop-up
windows and touch-screens and such. Did find that
you get less grief if you don't CLOSE those windows
but just send 'em off to negative screen coords.
Then on signal from a touch-screen or timer or
whatever you just drag 'em back into view and
make whatever updates.
TK is also pretty well documented since it's been
around for awhile. Actually none of the graphics
toolkits are particularly 'elegant' or great joys
to use so go with what seems easiest for the job.
Mostly if I need something with a quickie GUI then
I use Lazarus/FPC when possible. The WYSIWYG form
builder with a zillion possible options is WAY nicer
than the line-at-a-time TK approach plus Pascal looks
much nicer than Python or 'C'.
I would still probably use TK for a really quick GUI, but I prefer
terminal ui's nowadays.
You can do good stuff with TUIs these days, no question.
However if your app is graphics-heavy or very mousey/
touchscreeny then TK or friends are likely better.
One size doesn't fit all.
Lazarus lets you whip up a GUI fast, and there are
a zillion settings/hooks for each screen element you
can tweak as needed. Pascal is not as popular as it
once was, but it's a good and very complete lang and,
IMHO, worth being familiar with.
On 13/02/2025 16:03, John Ames wrote:
Pascal,
on the other hand, gets no performance advantage, while burdening the
programmer with all the bookkeeping that is*necessary* for safety in
languages like C, even though it keeps all the information needed to
provide a less burdensome, more convenient alternative. Truly deranged.
My one and only experience of Pascal was trying to interface with a
pseudo ram disk. It proved impossible to read a sector and then use two
bytes here as 16 bit address - a byte there as something else and then
maybe the whole sector as a data sector.
I rewrote it in C and just cast pointers into the sector to pick up
whatever I needed.
Will never ever touch Pascal again. Heap of shit for rank amateurs
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:34:02 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
std::array<int, 5> arr = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5};
for (int element : arr)
std::cout << element << " ";
I don't think you could do that in the C++ I'm familiar with. You had an iterator and then *. **. and so forth to get at what you wanted from it.
It was a beautiful piece of code when you started nesting iterators.
The Natural Philosopher wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 13/02/2025 16:03, John Ames wrote:
Pascal,
on the other hand, gets no performance advantage, while burdening the
programmer with all the bookkeeping that is*necessary* for safety in
languages like C, even though it keeps all the information needed to
provide a less burdensome, more convenient alternative. Truly deranged.
My one and only experience of Pascal was trying to interface with a
pseudo ram disk. It proved impossible to read a sector and then use two
bytes here as 16 bit address - a byte there as something else and then
maybe the whole sector as a data sector.
I rewrote it in C and just cast pointers into the sector to pick up
whatever I needed.
Will never ever touch Pascal again. Heap of shit for rank amateurs
I got exposed, accidentally, to Borland's Delphi (Object Pascal)
when our group started using Borland C++. Found myself in the debugger stepping through Pascal-like code.
Sic transit gloria Borland.
The Borland products were GREAT STUFF from TP v1.0,
a whole different experience, a whole new level of productivity.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:35:16 -0500, c186282 wrote:
The Borland products were GREAT STUFF from TP v1.0,
a whole different experience, a whole new level of productivity.
I preferred OWL to Mighty Fucking Complicated but so it goes.
I had Borland's Win95-era package, certainly was great in its time,
but ultimately it seems reasonable for M$ to provide development
software themselves, they're the ones creating the platform.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 51:37:23 |
| Calls: | 10,397 |
| Calls today: | 5 |
| Files: | 14,067 |
| Messages: | 6,417,338 |
| Posted today: | 1 |
