XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
to the kernel.

Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
if you are able.

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I will appreciate all responses.


--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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On 1/10/25 2:48 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
to the kernel.

Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
if you are able.

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I will appreciate all responses.

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

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On 1/10/25 3:25 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

I have no "use case." I just want to know if OpenZFS would
be a better choice for a desktop workstation than EXT4.

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

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XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

OK. Thanks.

I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

I have no "use case." I just want to know if OpenZFS would
be a better choice for a desktop workstation than EXT4.





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:12:53 -0500, Phillip wrote:

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

ZFS is to filesystems what Java is to programming languages. It will
happily chew up all the RAM on your system, given the chance.

If you do have a use case for it, it is best to run it on a dedicated filesystem appliance, away from any machine you want for general usage.

Also, this <https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=189711&curpostid=189959>.

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On 1/10/25 13:48, Farley Flud wrote:

I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available for
GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout way.

I'm fairly certain that FreeBSD has also been using OpenZFS for the last
3-8 years.

A separate external module must be compiled and then added to the
kernel.

I believe I've seen directions on how to integrate that external module
into a kernel that doesn't support modules. Some sort of way to graft
it into the kernel tree so you don't need modules. I think.

Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions if
you are able.

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

I see no reason to not use (Open)ZFS on a desktop workstation.

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

I think that (Open)ZFS's flexibility and capabilities put it in a
completely different (IMHO better) class than Ext4.

- snapshots
- clones
- send & receive
- RAID like capabilities
- (logical) volume management
- data protection in addition to metadata.

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I've been using (Open)ZFS to manage millions of files for more than 10
years. I'm very happy with it.

I will appreciate all responses.

The only thing that I will say is that (Open)ZFS is not as fast as a raw
file system like Ext4. But I believe that the minor performance penalty
is well worth it for snapshots and send & receive.



--
Grant. . . .

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On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 17:55:07 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I've been using (Open)ZFS to manage millions of files for more than 10
years. I'm very happy with it.

Interesting, though, that Oracle itself cannot (will not?) supply ZFS with
its own Linux distro, preferring you use BTRFS instead.

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On 1/10/25 4:00 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

OK. Thanks.

I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

Hard to go wrong with EXT4, esp on a 'home system'.

However some ZFS features might be useful in a
larger, biz, environment. Lots of people love
the 'snapshot' feature - kind of an easy backup.

I've fooled with ZFS from time to time but the
complexity-vs-gain equation never seemed to
justify it. Now if you had 500 concurrent
users ......... ?

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Le 10-01-2025, Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> a écrit :

On 1/10/25 2:48 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

I hear a lot about the virtues of OpenZFS, which is available
for GNU/Linux albeit, due to license concerns, only in a roundabout
way. A separate external module must be compiled and then added
to the kernel.

Since my programming predilection is HPC/scientific/engineering,
I know little about disk I/O concepts. So answer these questions
if you are able.

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

I will appreciate all responses.

What's your use case for switching away from EXT4 to OpenZFS?

He doesn't. He only pretend he does to make believe he has the technical capacity of switching between file system. But he can't. It's obvious
and well known here.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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Le 11-01-2025, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> a écrit :

On 1/10/25 4:00 PM, Farley Flud wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

OK. Thanks.

I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

You are right about it.
It's a bad idea to rely on something owned by Oracle. It's a bad
company which changes the rules of the game during the game. Look at
what happened with java it was free until it starts to be under paid
licence. And there is nothing zfs brings that doesn't exist on other
file systems.

Hard to go wrong with EXT4, esp on a 'home system'.

Exactly.

However some ZFS features might be useful in a
larger, biz, environment. Lots of people love
the 'snapshot' feature - kind of an easy backup.

I've fooled with ZFS from time to time but the
complexity-vs-gain equation never seemed to
justify it. Now if you had 500 concurrent
users ......... ?

If you want snapshots, you have btrfs. If you want really big
environments you have cephfs. So zfs is useless and to be avoided.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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On 2025-01-11 07:31, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

If you want snapshots, you have btrfs. If you want really big
environments you have cephfs. So zfs is useless and to be avoided.

When I installed Fedora 41, I noticed it installed with btrfs. I was
expecting there to be some instability or whatever as a consequence of
using it over ext4, but it's been wonderful so far. Only the NVIDIA
driver's been a pain in the ass, but I think I figured out what I was
doing wrong and resolved the issue.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

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On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:45:06 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

but I think I figured out what I was
doing wrong and resolved the issue.

Ha, ha, ha, ha!

The total extent of your technical expertise consists
in jiggling the connections and giving the box a hard
thump.

Ha, ha, ha, ha!



--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Le 11-01-2025, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> a écrit :

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:45:06 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

but I think I figured out what I was
doing wrong and resolved the issue.

The total extent of your technical expertise consists
in jiggling the connections and giving the box a hard
thump.

Which looks like it matches exactly your technical level. So, what's
wrong with that?

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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On 11 Jan 2025 13:49:04 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Which looks like it matches exactly your technical level.

Think so, Carpenter.

What would happen if your favorite GNU/Linux distro were
to suddenly disappear?

Ha, ha! Then you would be helplessly stuck in the mud.
Your computer would not function and you would, out of
sheer desperation, have to install Microslop Winblows
to save your sorry ass.

But I use no distro. My system is my own creation and
it will continue to function without problem as long
as I desire.

YOU are a pathetic distro lackey and you have no right
to judge anything technical.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

You don't even know what the software on your system
is doing. You have no control, rather it is YOU that
is being controlled.

Good luck.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 1/10/2025 4:00 PM, Lameass Larry wrote:

Thanks.

huh?

Where's the ' for nothing, assholes.' part?

Is Mom watching over your shoulder?

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Il Fri, 10 Jan 2025 19:48:37 +0000, Farley Flud ha scritto:

Is OpenZFS suitable/recommended for a desktop workstation?

Of course / not recommended: you can live happily and more easily without
it, if you don't need it.

What are the benefits of OpenZFS compared to EXT4?

Aside from being a filesystem? ;)

For desktops? It's CoW and it has snapshots, and a faster cache.
However these benefits may be completely irrelevant to someone.

Is OpenZFS stable enough to be trusted?

Enough? Please... are you kidding?

Just check before you upgrade the kernel, if you live on the edge...
--
Bye, Lem
Talis erit dies qualem egeris

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Am Fri, 10 Jan 2025 21:00:04 +0000 schrieb Farley Flud:

On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 15:37:17 -0500, Phillip wrote:

Probably not without having specific requirements that leverage the ZFS
file system. For example, I use it on a small server to handle RAID1+5
for a business with 10 employees. At home I have no need for that so
EXT4 is the better option for my needs at home.

OK. Thanks.

I was just curious but I'll stick with EXT4.

You need a bit more patience here. The question is interesting though.
My last information about ZFS is, that it's worth only with using large
amounts of Data and so RAM.

Regards
Ralf

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On Tue, 8 Apr 2025 14:48:46 -0000 (UTC), Ralf Schneider wrote:

My last information about ZFS is, that it's worth only with using large amounts of Data and so RAM.

ZFS is to filesystems what Java is to programming languages. Left to
itself, it will happily chew up all the RAM on your system.

In short, ZFS is best used on a dedicated file server appliance, not on a general-purpose OS installation.

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