XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
in the past year? Some choice quotes:

When Microsoft rolled out another Windows 11 24H2 update for
January's Patch Tuesday, instead of fixing existing issues, the
update created more havoc, causing conflicts with audio,
Bluetooth, webcams, and more. But a preview update released on
Jan. 28 finally fixed several glitches -- both old and new.

But then qualifies this by saying:

But before you dive into the 2024 update, know that you may run
into some problems and conflicts. The new version has been plagued
by bugs that could prevent you from using Windows reliably and
effectively.

So fix some problems, add new ones. Conclusion:

The number of bugs in Windows 11 24H2 also seems greater than in
past annual Windows updates. The ongoing spread of one bug after
another and Microsoft's need to stall the update for many people
both point to a problem with this latest version.

Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 2/1/2025 7:07 PM, Joel wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
in the past year?

Good reasons to not use Winblows.

The 24H2 installed on the machine across the way from me,
without incident, about a week or two ago. There was nothing
of note, like new features that I can remember off hand.

My Daily Driver is still running 23H2.

And my Insider Disk is running 25H2, and it doesn't look
all that much different than 23H2.

All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs.
And, whether you have an MSA or not.

The CoPilot gave me a real golf whiff answer yesterday. I could
not believe an AI could write an answer like that. It did not
say "Sorry, I don't know the answer". But when I asked it about
the NTFS file system, rather than answer the question, it told
me to "get a hex editor and figure it out for yourself". Now,
isn't that why we invented AI ??? So... helpful. I would not
have thought of that, using my hex editor and reverse engineering
NTFS. I suppose the next answer will be "why don't you drive
to the Public Library and look that up, pal?".

I'm still waiting for my flying car (Jetsons). It will
have stubby wings, and tilt to one side as it goes around
corners.

Oh, and Facebook has taken the block off Distrowatch :-) Whew.
Who knew this timeline would have a happy ending. Single handedly,
Facebook almost wiped out the Year Of The Linux Desktop.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-02-01 7:07 p.m., Joel wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
in the past year? Some choice quotes:

When Microsoft rolled out another Windows 11 24H2 update for
January's Patch Tuesday, instead of fixing existing issues, the
update created more havoc, causing conflicts with audio,
Bluetooth, webcams, and more. But a preview update released on
Jan. 28 finally fixed several glitches -- both old and new.

But then qualifies this by saying:

But before you dive into the 2024 update, know that you may run
into some problems and conflicts. The new version has been plagued
by bugs that could prevent you from using Windows reliably and
effectively.

So fix some problems, add new ones. Conclusion:

The number of bugs in Windows 11 24H2 also seems greater than in
past annual Windows updates. The ongoing spread of one bug after
another and Microsoft's need to stall the update for many people
both point to a problem with this latest version.

Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.

Good reasons to not use Winblows.

Let's be honest for a second: every operating system introduces new bugs
when it fixes old ones.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

[snip]

All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs. And,
whether you have an MSA or not.

I have CoPilot in Edge on Linux.

[snip]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sun, 2/2/2025 2:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

[snip]

All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs. And,
whether you have an MSA or not.

I have CoPilot in Edge on Linux.

[snip]

Makes sense, since it uses a datacenter for computation, and
anything that can run a webpage is good enough.

You should be aware, that they're de-tuning it as we speak.
The answers are coming back faster, and the last answer I got,
I need not bother wasting time any more on asking it questions.

Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing
a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were
I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more.

AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's
trashed the Internet. Good work. Even if you paid $200 a month
for this, I doubt anything would change for you.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Paul wrote:

Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing
a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were
I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more.

AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's
trashed the Internet. Good work.

It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have
no reason to think, at all.

--
'He thinks "open" means bug free.' - Hadron Quark, lying shamelessly

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/1/2025 4:55 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
in the past year? Some choice quotes:

When Microsoft rolled out another Windows 11 24H2 update for
January's Patch Tuesday, instead of fixing existing issues, the
update created more havoc, causing conflicts with audio,
Bluetooth, webcams, and more. But a preview update released on
Jan. 28 finally fixed several glitches -- both old and new.

But then qualifies this by saying:

But before you dive into the 2024 update, know that you may run
into some problems and conflicts. The new version has been plagued
by bugs that could prevent you from using Windows reliably and
effectively.

So fix some problems, add new ones. Conclusion:

The number of bugs in Windows 11 24H2 also seems greater than in
past annual Windows updates. The ongoing spread of one bug after
another and Microsoft's need to stall the update for many people
both point to a problem with this latest version.

Conclusion: OS's are extremely complicated pieces of code that will
never be "perfect".

Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.

The large GuhNoo part of your lamebrain seems to have completely
forgotten the Linux kernel alone has suffered many thousands of
regressions through the years.

"It’s a regression if something running fine with one Linux kernel works worse or not at all with a newer version."

There's so many that academics at major institutions write papers about
them:

https://static.lwn.net/images/pdf/kernel_regressions.pdf (see Table 1)

https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02091

https://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2004/papers/41-janis-johnson-reghunt_kernel.pdf

https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3634737.3637642



It's clear you're being true to yourself and have decided to identify as
a lying Linux idiot.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-02-02 21:26, chrisv wrote:

Paul wrote:

Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing
a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were
I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more.

AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's
trashed the Internet. Good work.

It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have
no reason to think, at all.

That's nonsense ... It's like saying that because we have calculators
we don't need to be able to do any mental arithmetic, but you always
need to be able to check that the result you get is reasonable to be
sure that you haven't miskeyed something while entering the calculation.
Or it's like saying that because we have navigation apps no-one will
need to read maps or think about what the app is telling them to do.
Remember the German couple who drove off the end of a pier, and, IMS,
drowned, because their navigation app told them to?! Or the Euro
continental lorry drivers who enter "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and
end up in a tiny English village that happens to have the same name?!
Didn't any penny drop when they had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 02:50:31 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

Remember the German couple who drove off the end of a pier, and, IMS, drowned, because their navigation app told them to?! Or the Euro
continental lorry drivers who enter "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and
end up in a tiny English village that happens to have the same name?!
Didn't any penny drop when they had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc.

There have been several fatalities in the US from blindly following
directions. Often it's nothing as blatant as driving off a bridge but the
GPS shows an unmaintained road that is the shortest route. Bad choices
follow.

https://www.oregonlive.com/editors/2013/04/
kim_familys_fatal_oregon_journ.html

I have been through that area -- in the summer with a full tank of gas.
You're lulled into a false sense of security since it's a decent paved
road to a launch area on the Rogue River. After you cross the river it's
all twisty gravel roads with very little in the way of markings.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-02-03 06:17, Jeff Barnett wrote:

On 2/2/2025 7:50 PM, Java Jive wrote:

On 2025-02-02 21:26, chrisv wrote:

Paul wrote:

Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing
a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were
I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more.

AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's
trashed the Internet. Good work.

It's not done until it's trashed human society.  Eventually we'll have
no reason to think, at all.

That's nonsense  ...  It's like saying that because we have
calculators we don't need to be able to do any mental arithmetic, but
you always need to be able to check that the result you get is
reasonable to be sure that you haven't miskeyed something while
entering the calculation.   Or it's like saying that because we have
navigation apps no-one will need to read maps or think about what the
app is telling them to do. Remember the German couple who drove off
the end of a pier, and, IMS, drowned, because their navigation app
told them to?!  Or the Euro continental lorry drivers who enter
"Gibraltar" into their nav apps and end up in a tiny English village
that happens to have the same name?! Didn't any penny drop when they
had to take a Channel ferry?  Etc, etc.

As best I only see, a significant portion of the younger generations can neither do simple arithmetic nor 1-step logical deductions (or the
informal equivalents or approximations). In other words, they cannot
verify or validate much of the information presented to them.

That's not a generational thing, there are people like that in every generation.

I see, as
a result, such moves as not accepting cash at many stories.

I asked an owner of a fast food place why. The answer: The schools
didn't teach them arithmetic and I think they are too old to learn! I
also recall an experience a few years ago. I selected some supplies at a store in Marina del Rey (part of greater LA) and approached the cash
register where a vacant looking 20 something young lady was the cashier.
She laboriously rings up the items and the total comes to $19.99. I take
out my wallet, hand her a $20 bill and apologize for not having anything smaller. She says nothing, does not crack a smile, and remains frozen
until the register tells her to give me a penny back. Still no reaction.

Again, there are dumb-asses in every generation.

So you really think we, collectively, will be able to profit from
information that allows us to double check our computers?

My post to which you are replying gave examples of what can happen if we
don't.

These are the
same folks who are frightened by vaccines and community health. (I know
there is a small number of people who have predictable poor reactions,
but they're generally not the ones spouting conspiracy theories.)

Yes, there's one of those living near to me, but, at a guess, he's in
he's 80s, so, again, not a generational thing. [His wife, a nice, kind
old dear, had a severe stroke a week or two after having a covid vaccine
and is now mentally much impaired. Understandably, but most probably incorrectly, he links the vaccine and the stroke, whereas in truth she
may well have had the stroke even if she had not had the vaccine
beforehand. What happened to her is tragic, and they both deserve every sympathy, but in all probability the two events are unrelated except by coincidence.]

The promise that connectivity (the internet) would improve society and
its human inhabitants has been shown false. Rather, it has led to intellectually laziness and polarization. Non-vetted results are repeat
as gospel and we are all manipulated and exploited.

Again, not a generational thing, people used to be just as
undiscriminating reading newspaper reports and watching TV reports. The
thing that the internet has changed is the speed of it all.

The point is that
the vast majority of us are entrenched in this madness and our brain's
off switch has been thrown.

We do not regain rationality when presented with quality information
unless we agree with it before it is presented to us. When I say "we" I included all of us who have spent our lives using our brain; we all seem
to have these blind spots where we would rather believe than think.

The problem has always been compromising between saving mental effort -
so that you don't go through the laborious process of reinventing the
wheel every time you need to use one, you just reuse what is already
known - and assessing new information whose usefulness is as yet
unknown. No person or the wider society of which he/she is part could
ever make progress at either extreme of rethinking everything all the
time or taking everything new as 'good' without questioning it, the best
path forward has always been a compromise between those two extremes.
The internet has made this problem more obvious and thus magnified its
apparent importance, but it's always been a problem.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:23:37 -0500, DFS wrote:

There's so many that academics at major institutions write papers about
them:

You do realize those bugs get fixed as result of those reports, don’t you? And usually pretty promptly, too. Indeed, such research often points to
new tools and methodologies for improving the reliability of the software
being developed in the first place.

In other words, they are contributing to the greater reliability and versatility of the Linux kernel and other open-source software, and to the increasing disparity between that and the flaky, fragile, unwieldy house
of cards that is Microsoft Windows.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.

Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
quality?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 07:11:42 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

Let's be honest for a second: every operating system introduces new bugs
when it fixes old ones.

No, reasonably-designed code manages to decrease bugs in existing features
over time. Bugs in new features will happen, yes.

There is an old engineering adage: complexity arises, not so much from the number of components, as from the number of potential interactions between them.

Open-source systems tend to have clear separation of functions between components, which helps keep unexpected interactions between them, in particular, down to a minimum. This allows them to scale to massive
application deployments, like million-node supercomputers or running the
entire Internet.

The same cannot be said for Microsoft Windows. The original Windows NT
concept may have had some kind of conceptual integrity at one point. But
that has since been lost under an ongoing wave of short-sighted management decisions driven entirely by pursuit of immediate profits.

And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times just
to do an OS install?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Fri, 2/7/2025 7:14 PM, Joel wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.

Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
quality?

This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet, upgrade to Linux.

"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
^^^^^^^

Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
that if you think there is something in that update for you.

It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.

A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.

That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .

TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.

Paul

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On 2025-02-07 4:34 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 07:11:42 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

Let's be honest for a second: every operating system introduces new bugs
when it fixes old ones.

No, reasonably-designed code manages to decrease bugs in existing features over time. Bugs in new features will happen, yes.

There is an old engineering adage: complexity arises, not so much from the number of components, as from the number of potential interactions between them.

Open-source systems tend to have clear separation of functions between components, which helps keep unexpected interactions between them, in particular, down to a minimum. This allows them to scale to massive application deployments, like million-node supercomputers or running the entire Internet.

The same cannot be said for Microsoft Windows. The original Windows NT concept may have had some kind of conceptual integrity at one point. But
that has since been lost under an ongoing wave of short-sighted management decisions driven entirely by pursuit of immediate profits.

And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times just
to do an OS install?

I have to admit those reboots are a nuisance. Of course, Fedora rebooted
pretty often too. While it doesn't seem to be *necessary* to reboot
after an update, practically all of them recommended it.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

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On Fri, 2/7/2025 8:50 PM, Joel wrote:

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

[Windows 11 24H2 is in] public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet, >>> upgrade to Linux.

"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
^^^^^^^

Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
that if you think there is something in that update for you.

It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February. >>
A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.

That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .

TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.

The preview update isn't the only bug I've heard about in Win12 I mean
11 24H2. Honestly, having an actual good PC, that I assembled from
quality parts, I never encountered bugs with Win11 updates. That
having been said, it seems worse since I deleted Win11 23H2 early in
that build's life. Maybe if I'm not running Winblows, M$ expects
everyone else to be smart enough to follow the leader, well, I try, I
post here on COLA, I make Linux look cool, I talk to Copilot in a Web
app, but I can't just wave my hand and make people wake up to how
shitty Winblows is, and replace it. So the stats remain with Windows
being heavily dominant.

The root cause of some of this, is the pattern I've spotted
where Microsoft is trying to take over all the proprietary
drivers. This is likely why USB DACs got broken. They didn't
get broken because the manufacturer sent an update. And the usual
USB parts of a PC, would have nothing to do with USB DAC health,
that would also not be affecting the operation of USB sticks
or USB disk enclosures and so on.

The USB DACs likely got affected, by some attempt to create a
class driver for the DACs, and failing at it.

But the rest of the symptoms, I don't see a locus there, to predict
where those problems are coming from. Usually the File Explorer
is relatively immune to the churn around it. And if you fouled up
a disk driver... the system isn't going to be able to boot. And the
class drivers for that, haven't been updated in years. It's because
of the simplicity of making read/write work on a disk.

Paul

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On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:29:39 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-07 4:34 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times
just to do an OS install?

I have to admit those reboots are a nuisance. Of course, Fedora rebooted pretty often too.

There are ways to minimize that. Doesn’t RHEL support kexec, which allows
the old Linux kernel to pass control to the new one without actually
disrupting the userland?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-02-08 1:36 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:29:39 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-07 4:34 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times
just to do an OS install?

I have to admit those reboots are a nuisance. Of course, Fedora rebooted
pretty often too.

There are ways to minimize that. Doesn’t RHEL support kexec, which allows the old Linux kernel to pass control to the new one without actually disrupting the userland?

I don't know, it might. Like I said, you don't have to reboot but they recommend it. We expect that kind of behaviour from Windows, so it's not
that cumbersome when it happens in Linux too.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Telegram: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 2/7/2025 7:14 PM, Joel wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

[...]

The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.

Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the ?fixes? are
actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft?s software
quality?

This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet, upgrade to Linux.

"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"

Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
that if you think there is something in that update for you.

It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February.

Please don't spoil Lawrence's rants with facts and common sense!

I've yet to see a Windows critcism from him which is *not* bogus.

Strange that he apparently feels so insecure about Linux, that he
'needs' to attack Windows for no good reason.

We Windows users don't feel the need to do the opposite, mainly
because, as they say, "Windows isn't a religion.".

Why he just can't be happy with what he has, is beyond me.

A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.

That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .

TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.

There you go again, being sensible! What's wrong with some nice FUD,
urban legends, innuendo, fear mongering, etc.!?

But excuse me, I've got to rush. Got to install a Windows system and
as Lawrence says that "needs to reboot about five times", I need to get cracking.

N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

[...]

N.B. This post is brought to you by courtesy of vim, GNU and Cygwin.

It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're
running vim under Cygwin. Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

Yes, vim and tin, a newsreader of Unix origin.

But that only shows that you can run good software on a 'bad' OS. And
that goes for us *both*! :-)

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Paul wrote:

when I asked it about
the NTFS file system, rather than answer the question, it told
me to "get a hex editor and figure it out for yourself". Now,
isn't that why we invented AI ??? So... helpful. I would not
have thought of that, using my hex editor and reverse engineering
NTFS. I suppose the next answer will be "why don't you drive
to the Public Library and look that up, pal?".

You could buy the Custer book, but it doesn't cover the newer features
such as reparse points or the altered permission inheritance ...

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:

It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
vim under Cygwin. Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:

It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
vim under Cygwin. Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows.

Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
has.

If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 2/8/2025 3:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sat, 08 Feb 2025 11:24:29 -0500, Joel wrote:

It's just too funny, I'm running Forte Agent under Wine, you're running
vim under Cygwin. Couldn't be more equal and opposite.

Cygwin isn't necessary for gVim under Windows.

Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
has.

If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.

And you don't have to keep an entire Cygwin installation
to make a Cygwin .exe item to work. As long as you
copy the DLLs it needs into a folder, it runs fine
in the portable sense. I run "disktype" in its own
folder, and the Cygwin tree is long gone.

Paul

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 09:05:27 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-08 1:36 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Doesn’t RHEL support kexec, which
allows the old Linux kernel to pass control to the new one without
actually disrupting the userland?

I don't know, it might.

The last openSUSE install I did, some years ago, I remember it switched
almost seamlessly from running off the installation media to running off
the just-created (minimal) installation, and continued adding packages
from there. There was no perceptible reboot stage at all.

Just to point out this is a common Linux kernel feature, not something
specific to a particular distro.

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On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:26:52 -0500, Paul wrote:

"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
^^^^^^^

Yeah, we don't install those.

Why not? What is a “preview” supposed to be, really? In movies and TV,
they are selected snippets of the forthcoming feature, to tease you into looking forward to the full thing. But as far as Microsoft is concerned,
this *is* the feature.

If it’s a public beta test, why don’t they say so? Why can’t they be honest and admit that they are using their docile and unsuspecting user
base as unpaid guinea-pigs for buggy software that will likely cause
problems for its users? Nay, not just unpaid, but actually paying for the privilege?

Unless, of course, “preview” actually means “foretaste of the even worse hell to come” ...

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:54:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

If it’s a public beta test, why don’t they say so? Why can’t they be honest and admit that they are using their docile and unsuspecting user
base as unpaid guinea-pigs for buggy software that will likely cause
problems for its users? Nay, not just unpaid, but actually paying for
the privilege?

I don't think the user base is that docile and unsuspecting. In addition
to the previews there are the developer and canary channels for the
Windows Insider program for the braver sorts. No different than running
Debian Sid.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 8 Feb 2025 20:41:26 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Indeed it isn't, but - as I later mentioned - I use tin as my
newsreader and I mentioned 'GNU', meaning all the GNU tools/commands/
etc.. Granted, most of the latter can also be gotten as 'native' Windows executables, but probably not with a 'package manager' such as Cygwin
has.

That's one of my first steps when provisioning a new Windows machine --
adding the native Windows tools. I can only take so much of 'ls' failing
and I never bothered to learn to use 'dir' effectively.

If I was starting now/recently, I would probably use WSL (Windows
Subsystem for Linux), but I already used similar stuff in the 80s, so
Cygwin was the logical choice for Windows.

I have installed Cygwin in the past but at work we used the MKS Nutcracker tools and runtime. They didn't play together all that well. Using Cygwin
for a commercial suite of apps was out.

I started using DJGPP on DOS. My 'hello world' was porting
MidnightCommander back to Windows, which is ironic considering it started
as a port of a Windows app. I did a little work on what is now MinGW. That
was started by Anders Norlander and carried on by Mumit Khan. I don't know
who is developing it these days. The philosophy was different, using GNU
tools to build native Windows apps. Corinna Vinschen at that time took the Cygwin route trying to bring POSIX to Windows.

WSL is handy. We had a map product that required a base map. Usually no
problem but at trade shows a decent internet connection is expensive and
often sucks. It's fairly easy to create a map tile server using OSM data
on Linux but a real mess on Windows. Solution: run the tile server on a
WSL Debian instance on the marketing laptops, with the Windows
applications on the same machine. I originally thought about running the
tile server on a mini but that approach led to one less piece of equipment
to get lost.

Most of my Windows machines are set up for WSL but between here and work
I've got five dedicated Linux boxes, if you count the Debian derived
Raspberry Pi OS so I use those. Almost everything I use is cross platform anyway so the Linux and Windows boxes are provisioned very similarly.

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On Sat, 2/8/2025 3:12 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Paul wrote:

when I asked it about
the NTFS file system, rather than answer the question, it told
me to "get a hex editor and figure it out for yourself". Now,
isn't that why we invented AI ??? So... helpful. I would not
have thought of that, using my hex editor and reverse engineering
NTFS. I suppose the next answer will be "why don't you drive
to the Public Library and look that up, pal?".

You could buy the Custer book, but it doesn't cover the newer features such as reparse points or the altered permission inheritance ...

openspecs-windows_protocols-ms-fscc.pdf

IO_REPARSE_TAG_WOF 0x80000017

Used by the Windows Overlay filter, for either WIMBoot
or single-file compression. Server-side interpretation
only, not meaningful over the wire.

IO_REPARSE_TAG_ONEDRIVE 0x80000021 Not used.

I suspect even the Microsoft (derived) documentation
isn't up to date. It's like their WIM spec :-)

The basic idea, is they'll tease you with the value
of the tag, but the rest of it you have to reverse-engineer.

Paul

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On Sat, 2/8/2025 9:05 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-08 1:36 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 20:29:39 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-07 4:34 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is >>>> doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times
just to do an OS install?

I have to admit those reboots are a nuisance. Of course, Fedora rebooted >>> pretty often too.

There are ways to minimize that. Doesn’t RHEL support kexec, which allows >> the old Linux kernel to pass control to the new one without actually
disrupting the userland?

I don't know, it might. Like I said, you don't have to reboot but they recommend it. We expect that kind of behaviour from Windows, so it's not that cumbersome when it happens in Linux too.

Your personal policy may depend on your machine.

On a server with ECC and the background scrubber engaged,
you might laugh at reboots as "unnecessary" and "bourgeois".

On a desktop system where the RAM is protected by nothing,
rebooting is a good way of refreshing the RAM image.

Even if computers had static RAM instead of dynamic RAM,
the bus signal integrity means the error rate is not zero.
With static RAM, the memory might be a tiny bit more
resistant to cosmic ray events.

Paul

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On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 23:44:41 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vo8q98$8tqo$3@dont-email.me>:

On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 09:05:27 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-02-08 1:36 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Doesn’t RHEL support kexec, which allows the old Linux kernel to pass
control to the new one without actually disrupting the userland?

I don't know, it might.

The last openSUSE install I did, some years ago, I remember it switched almost seamlessly from running off the installation media to running off
the just-created (minimal) installation, and continued adding packages
from there. There was no perceptible reboot stage at all.

Just to point out this is a common Linux kernel feature, not something specific to a particular distro.

Not sure why that would need kexec -- more likely, it used
chroot(8) or pivot_root(8).

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.13.1 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"There's no future in time travel"

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On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 21:41:58 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.

Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely creating
about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are actually adding
to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software quality?

You thought it was a fluke? The troubles continue <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-update-breaks-file-explorer-among-other-glitches/>.
Now Microsoft is breaking basic things like File Explorer!

You know how Microsoft is ending free support for Windows 10, and is
pushing everybody to Windows 11? It’s looking more and more like this
will be a step *down* in software quality, not just now but into the
future:

Each annual Windows update can suffer from bugs, especially after
being rolled out to millions of users. However, Windows 11 24H2
has been more problematic than usual. Since its official launch
last October, the 2024 version has carried with it a host of known
issues, many of which still haven't been resolved. As we get
closer to the October 2025 deadline for the Windows 10 support
cutoff, Microsoft needs to ensure that Windows 11 is a more stable
and reliable system.

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On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 21:51:48 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

You thought it was a fluke? The troubles continue <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-update-breaks-file-explorer-

among-other-glitches/>.

Now Microsoft is breaking basic things like File Explorer!

I just checked and and the Windows laptop I did the Fedora test on
yesterday does have KB5051987, which I installed last Tuesday and the file explorer still seems to be functional. I didn't do much with the Windows
side yesterday.

https://betanews.com/2025/02/15/test-fedora-microsoft-windows-subsystem- linux-wsl/

That's an explanation of the test procedure.

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On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

Further evidence <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:

Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

Further evidence <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:

"deletes your Copilot app" "from *SOME* Windows 11 PCs"

Perhaps another case of thousands in billions, like your previous FUD?

Anyway, the Copilot app did not get deleted from my system. Sorry
about that. (There never was a Taskbar icon, so a tad hard to delete
that.)

Let's hear from others, who - unlike you - actually have/use this
stuff.

Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

Well, it seems to keep *you* quite busy.

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On 2025-03-17 17:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

Further evidence <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:

Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

I can't disagree with the last part. Unsurprisingly, even yesterday, I
ran an sfc /scannow & dism /online /cleanup-image /scanhealth
combination, and I wasn't surprised to discover that the system once
again had components needing to be repaired. The machine is always put
to suspend as it should be and shut down properly, yet Windows breaks
even when you use it properly. I can only imagine how "slow" the machine
gets for users who don't know about these repair options and the
constant need to execute them.

--
God be with you,

CrudeSausage
John 14:6

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On Tue, 3/18/2025 9:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

Further evidence
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:

"deletes your Copilot app" "from *SOME* Windows 11 PCs"

Perhaps another case of thousands in billions, like your previous FUD?

Anyway, the Copilot app did not get deleted from my system. Sorry
about that. (There never was a Taskbar icon, so a tad hard to delete
that.)

Let's hear from others, who - unlike you - actually have/use this
stuff.

Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

Well, it seems to keep *you* quite busy.

All I got, was this lousy T-shirt.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/FFZzjH9B/do-the-hokey-pokey.gif

On several OS installs here, this pops right up on the screen,
claiming it is installing itself or something. I clicked the "X"
but evidence is, I wasn't fast enough. Now I have to do
the hokey-pokey. That's what it's all about.

If you're wondering when that one came in, you can see the
muddy footprints on the floor, here.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/y6QB1g6s/Reliability-Monitor-Office-Hub-Incoming.gif

*******

The CoPilot icon on the Task bar, second from left ?
Naw, that's still there. On all the OSes I've looked at recently.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/vZXCzC1M/Co-Pilot-App.gif

This is the thing running in the picture. That gives the package name
if you need it for some reason.

"C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.Copilot_1.25014.121.0_x64_8wekyb3d8bbwe\CopilotNative.exe"

Paul







Paul

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On Tue, 3/18/2025 11:04 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:

On 2025-03-17 17:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

Further evidence
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:

     Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
     issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
     the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the >>      same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
     removed.

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

I can't disagree with the last part. Unsurprisingly, even yesterday, I ran an sfc /scannow & dism /online /cleanup-image /scanhealth combination, and I wasn't surprised to discover that the system once again had components needing to be repaired. The

machine is always put to suspend as it should be and shut down properly, yet Windows breaks even when you use it properly. I can only imagine how "slow" the machine gets for users who don't know about these repair options and the constant need to execute
them.

dism /Online /Cleanup-image /ScanHealth

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22621.2792

Image Version: 10.0.22631.5039

[==========================100.0%==========================] No component store corruption detected.
The operation completed successfully.



I don't sleep or hibernate or fast start.
Notice how clean my stuff is. If there is a
change of state from S0, it's a shutdown, where the
OS dismounts the file system before termination. It
flushes any caches (the OS has a write cache in RAM,
the cache normally being flushed).

*******

Deployment Image Servicing and Management

dism /Online /Cleanup-image /ScanHealth
dism /Online /Cleanup-image /CheckHealth
dism /Online /Cleanup-image /RestoreHealth
dism /Online /Cleanup-image /StartComponentCleanup
Sfc /ScanNow # You do the SFC, after the DISM ones if any

Windows Command Prompt

Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase

Warning: All existing update packages can't be uninstalled after this
command is completed, but this won't block the un-installation
of future update packages.

*******

W11Home

DISM runs on this OS: 1 # Run for amusement, on lowest level which is a "check" only.
SFC runs on this OS: 0

Disk seems to be working OK.

399,000 files on C:
There is no C:\Windows\servicing\LCU on Windows 11, so no LCU to count.

W10Pro

572,000 files
C:\Windows\servicing\LCU on Windows 10 178,000 files (can be deleted)

It's also sunny outside today, but still a bit cold.

*******

You can do a Repair Install, to tart up the WinSxS files.

While you could do a backup and restore, in an attempt to "clean"
the C: file system, that's not going to be entirely successful.
If you had any $BADCLUS entries, those would likely be preserved in
the backup, which is not a desirable property. It's normally pretty
difficult to regress to the point that the OS registers those -- the auto-sparing of the storage devices, normally "hides the health" of
the storage so $BADCLUS (a concept from long ago), does not trigger.

I did have one of those here, and it was a bitch to get rid of.

Paul

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On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.

And still not fixed. <https://www.zdnet.com/article/10-pesky-windows-11-24h2-bugs-still-haunting-pcs-despite-several-patches/>

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:

Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.

Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.

This is happening so often now that it should be completely
yawnworthy; the news should be when it *doesn’t* happen. Except that
too many Dimdows users still seem to believe that Microsoft produces a
quality product or something, so they still get continually surprised
when Microsoft makes their machines malfunction <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2-is-crashing-on-many-pcs-due-to-conflict-with-security-driver/>.

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This time, the bugs in the update are so bad that Microsoft has had to
issue an emergency, unscheduled update to fix the update <https://www.computerworld.com/article/4000386/microsoft-issues-out-of-band-patches-for-windows-11-startup-failure.html>.

There are all kinds of lovely excuses in the article about how testing
can never cover every real-world possibility. But the fact remains
that the the frequency of this problem on Windows is way greater than
on any other comparable platform.

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On Mon, 6/2/2025 6:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

This time, the bugs in the update are so bad that Microsoft has had to
issue an emergency, unscheduled update to fix the update <https://www.computerworld.com/article/4000386/microsoft-issues-out-of-band-patches-for-windows-11-startup-failure.html>.

There are all kinds of lovely excuses in the article about how testing
can never cover every real-world possibility. But the fact remains
that the the frequency of this problem on Windows is way greater than
on any other comparable platform.

Gee, it looks like it has happened before.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/recovery-error-acpisys-your-pc-needs-to-be/42cf8731-6775-4ab4-ac8e-c2db82aaf2bf

A Reddit thread says:

"ACPI.sys is the AML interpreter. The AML code is part of the BIOS, try updating the BIOS"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACPI#AML

At the BIOS development time, AML bytecode is compiled from the ASL (ACPI Source Language) code.[8][9]

[8] "ACPI in FreeBSD" http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix02/tech/freenix/full_papers/watanabe/watanabe.ps
[9] "ACPI in Linux" https://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2005/ols2005v1-pages-59-76.pdf

That at least hints that ACPI.sys would have to deal with
the quirks in various released computer hardware (some kind of
table passed by the BIOS).

And you also happen to know, that the BIOS emulation in virtual machine hosting,
is a "shell" of a BIOS. The implementation is incomplete. Just yesterday I got a taste of this while installing Windows 7 in a VM, to take pictures. The legacy BIOS install worked OK, but when I switched on UEFI in the VM,
the install disc basically crashed. And that's the interaction with
an incomplete UEFI design. When I switched to physical hardware (4930K), the UEFI install sequence completed with no problem at all.

That's an actual frictional area on all OSes.

When you buy a Lemon Laptop with bad AML code in it, you are constantly
dealing with shit issues like that. Usually, the laptop company did not
make the laptop themselves, they got it from an ODM, and the ODM does
not provide continuing maintenance contract. The OEM is supposed to provide maintenance to end customers.

Maybe in a Linux thread, you would see a reference to "you should install CoreBoot"
when it looks like the laptop has bad code in it.

It means that some amount of "quirks code" would be in ACPI.sys.
And in a VM with an incomplete (and *never* gets fixed) UEFI,
there is always the possibility of a bad ending. The people who
write hosting software, they only work on their skeletal UEFI
code, until "something booted, lets go for lunch".

So while we could have a discussion about complexity, this
is an area with a "history", and nobody is immune to getting
rough treatment. It's pretty hard to predict in advance, what
products have bad code in them, until someone among end users
tests the hardware.

Who knows, maybe the article would be less eventful, if it
contained details, instances, A vs B, so we can see what
percentage of users might be affected.

Paul

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