I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from Windows.
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300 >>> will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let >>> it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we >>> start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which >>> still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting, though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of like Windows and Mac OS).
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300 >>>>> will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I >>>>> rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we >>>>> start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and >>>>> finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from >>>>> Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I >>> don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was >>> more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed >>> Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for >>> Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and >>> Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not >>> in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for >>> Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of >>> like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is
theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I >>>>>>> rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and >>>>>>> finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from >>>>>>> Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was >>>>> more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting, >>>>> though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for >>>>> Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a >>>>> Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and >>>>> Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.) >>>>>
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I >>>>> uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something >>>> to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for >>>> one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is
theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them) >>> but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby. >>>
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be >>> in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox" maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow." This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS, but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300 >>>> will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I >>>> rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let >>>> it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we >>>> start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and >>>> finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which >>>> still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from >>>> Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I >> don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed >> Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out >> that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not >> in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for >> Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb >> version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of >> like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is theoretically superior.
On 2025-02-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-10 2:54 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before. >>>>>>>
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting, >>>>>>> though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a >>>>>>> Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.) >>>>>>>
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I >>>>>>> uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something >>>>>> to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but >>>>>> they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for >>>>>> one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is >>>>>> theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them) >>>>> but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you. >>>>> There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used >>>> Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well >>>> if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that >>>> much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container" >>> idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox" >>> maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways >>> to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all. >>>
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS, >>> but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish >>> Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't >>> know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.
I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might
result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt
that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When
all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has
been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web,
I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak
and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available
to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage.
Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.
Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or
Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I
discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check
my drive space. I didn't like that.
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons, and have them show up on menus and taskbars.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.
I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.
I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.
On the one hand, the fact that they carry all their dependencies ensures
that the application always works as intended.
On 2025-02-11 3:49 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when
AppImages work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat
something which requires nothing more than for you to make it
executable?
https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons,
and have them show up on menus and taskbars.
Ah, that's exactly the kind of application I was looking for. I was
annoyed that the AppImage for my cloud provider didn't provide an icon.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.
I don’t understand the point of any of them. They seem like attempts to retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem. Why? Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it, instead of being able to share dependencies through the package system. The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.
They even integrate in Chromebooks (with Linux installed) so long as you
have zenity installed. (I don't know what "zenity" is, I just know you
need it in Chromebooks if you want to integrate AppImages into the
desktop. Otherwise you have to run them ./sample.AppImage from the
terminal. (Maybe this is only with poorly made AppImages, not sure.)
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 19:47:14 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-02-11 3:49 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when
AppImages work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat
something which requires nothing more than for you to make it
executable?
https://github.com/probonopd/go-appimage/blob/master/src/appimaged/
README.md
appimaged is handy as it will search for AppImages, extract the icons,
and have them show up on menus and taskbars.
Ah, that's exactly the kind of application I was looking for. I was
annoyed that the AppImage for my cloud provider didn't provide an icon.
Supposedly, at least on Ubuntu, you can extract the AppRun directory to squashfs-root, copy the whole mess to /opt, find the icon in the mess, handcraft a xxxx.desktop in /usr/share/applications pointing to the AppRun and icon, and then reload the desktop database. It never worked for me.
appimaged found the app and now I have icons for both Arduino IDE v1 and
V2 on the taskbar. V1 is a circle and v2 is a square with rounded corners
but I can live with that.
I've only got the one AppImage but it supposedly will find all and any.
On 2025-02-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-11 1:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-10 2:54 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.")
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before. >>>>>>>>>
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but >>>>>>>> they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble >>>>>>>> integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for >>>>>>>> one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is >>>>>>>> theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you. >>>>>>> There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used >>>>>> Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was
running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser, >>>>>> the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well >>>>>> if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that >>>>>> much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's
popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container" >>>>> idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small >>>>> applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish >>>>> Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't >>>>> know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.
I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might
result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt >>>> that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When >>>> all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has >>>> been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web, >>>> I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak >>>> and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available >>>> to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage. >>>> Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.
Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or
Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I
discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check >>> my drive space. I didn't like that.
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier
to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:02:38 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a
database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.
https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why
the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:04:40 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and
Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier
to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.
NIH? I don't know how valid/important the sandboxing argument is. I'm the sole user of any of my machines so it's a PITA if anything.
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 2:12 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:02:38 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a >>>> database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.
https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why >>> the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did >>> and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be. It's part of why I
was so willing to try Fedora and others in my latest adventure into
Linux use.
I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random freezing on Linux Mint.
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 2:12 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:02:38 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a >>>> database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.
https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why >>> the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did >>> and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be. It's part of why I
was so willing to try Fedora and others in my latest adventure into
Linux use.
I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random freezing on Linux Mint.
On 2025-02-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 1:24 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-11 1:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-10 2:54 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might >>>>>> result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt >>>>>> that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When >>>>>> all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has >>>>>> been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web, >>>>>> I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak >>>>>> and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available >>>>>> to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage. >>>>>> Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.") >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before. >>>>>>>>>>>
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble >>>>>>>>>> integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is >>>>>>>>>> theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you. >>>>>>>>> There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was >>>>>>>> running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser, >>>>>>>> the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's >>>>>>>> popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small >>>>>>> applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what. >>>>>>
Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or >>>>> Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I
discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check
my drive space. I didn't like that.
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages >>>> work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which
requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and
Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier
to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.
I think Canonical wanted to control an Apple style "app store." I didn't realize that Red Hat was a big supporter for flatpak. But I do know I like flatpaks better than snaps. As far as not using AppImage... I have no idea why they (at least Red Hat) didn't go that direction.
Actually, I read that Snaps were superior to Flatpaks. The problem is
that Canonical has ultimate control over their storage and distribution.
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:03:46 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze
randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.
Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text console and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the freezeups?
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-13 1:41 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 1:24 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-11 1:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-10 2:54 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might >>>>>>>> result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. II guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.") >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble >>>>>>>>>>>> integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is
theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was >>>>>>>>>> running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's >>>>>>>>>> popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small >>>>>>>>> applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what. >>>>>>>>
that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When
all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has
been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web, >>>>>>>> I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak >>>>>>>> and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available
to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage. >>>>>>>> Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.
Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or >>>>>>> Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I >>>>>>> discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check
my drive space. I didn't like that.
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages >>>>>> work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which >>>>>> requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the
dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and >>>> Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier >>>> to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the
system.
I think Canonical wanted to control an Apple style "app store." I didn't >>> realize that Red Hat was a big supporter for flatpak. But I do know I like >>> flatpaks better than snaps. As far as not using AppImage... I have no idea >>> why they (at least Red Hat) didn't go that direction.
Actually, I read that Snaps were superior to Flatpaks. The problem is
that Canonical has ultimate control over their storage and distribution.
I don't mind that Canonical was trying an Apple-style approach since
Shuttleworth made a significant investment in Linux and wants to get
that money back, but I do think that Flatpak is a smart alternative to
ensure that Canonical doesn't control the operating system as much as it
does Ubuntu itself. What Canonical does with Ubuntu is their own
business and people are free to use it or ignore it.
In my opinion Snaps are not superior to Flatpaks. Snaps are invasive, Flatpaks are easily removed. As I mentioned in another post, Trelby (screenwriting software) includes an HTML manual. It's normal location is /usr/trelby/trelby (up until a recent release, it's now under usr/lib/python3.xx/dist-pkgs... — something like that). But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I don't think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap forces you to try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb installation package fail that works with any other Firefox installation. (This is just one example.)
I won't Snaps, even if there's an application that only is available as a Snap. That's how much I don't like them.
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-13 1:44 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 2:12 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:02:38 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I never bothered to look into it but I'm wondering if AppImages have a >>>>>> database like flathub.org and snapcraft.io.
https://www.appimagehub.com/
The only one I have is the Arduino v2.
https://www.appimagehub.com/p/2123683
On Fedora v2 is a Flatpak but on Ubuntu the snap is v1. I don't know why >>>>> the difference. v1 is usable but v2 has matured and can do anything v1 did
and more. The more I work with Ubuntu the less I like it.
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives freeze >>>> randomly with no explanation as to why that might be. It's part of why I >>>> was so willing to try Fedora and others in my latest adventure into
Linux use.
I'm guessing that's a nVidia issue as I've never had trouble with random >>> freezing on Linux Mint.
The random freezing affects Pop!_OS too, unfortunately, since it is
based on Ubuntu 22.04. There's basically no escaping it. I know that my
GPU is not faulty, so it's especially insulting when Ubuntu and its
derivatives treat it like it is.
But you're GPU is a nVidia one, right?
But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I
don't think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap
forces you to try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb installation package fail that works with any other Firefox
installation. (This is just one example.)
I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 07:43:07 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I
don't think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap
forces you to try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb
installation package fail that works with any other Firefox
installation. (This is just one example.)
I can access files in the /usr directory but it's a little odd. For
example with <Ctrl>O I can navigate to
/usr/share/arduino/examples/01.Basics/Blink/Blink.ino
After I select the file it opens and the URL bar becomes
file:///run/user/1000/doc/e6a3bfe2/Blink.ino
I can also
cat /run/user/1000/doc/e6a3bfe2/Blink.ino
to see the contents of the usual Arduino 'hello world' example.
There is also /run/user/1000/doc/by-app/ which appears to have running
apps. For example, thonny wasn't in the list until I started it and then snap.thonny appeared.
The entry doesn't go away when I exit thonny, nor does Blink.io when I
close the Firefox tab.
/run is relatively new. I've never poked around so I don't know if unused data expires at some time.
On 2025-02-13 7:52 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:03:46 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives
freeze randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.
Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text
console and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the
freezeups?
Sometimes you can CTRL-ALT-F3 back to normalcy ...
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
But that would be the only thing I ever do in Linux: find out why A, B,
C or D don't work as expected.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:00:47 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-02-13 7:52 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 19:03:46 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I gave up on Ubuntu upon discovering that it and its derivatives
freeze randomly with no explanation as to why that might be.
Does it freeze up the entire GUI? Are you able to switch to a text
console and check things there? Or SSH from another machine during the
freezeups?
Sometimes you can CTRL-ALT-F3 back to normalcy ...
SSH?
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
But that would be the only thing I ever do in Linux: find out why A, B,
C or D don't work as expected.
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 09:03:16 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.
The snaps don't bother me and while I'm not fond of GNOME I can live with
it. However I've had to manually fix stuff after upgrading to LTS versions and now to 24.10. That's disappointing in a distro that's supposed to be newbie friendly.
I never upgraded OpenSUSE past 13.2 because the consensus at the time was going to Leap best was done with a fresh install but Ubuntu should be smoother.
I'm not going to reinstall this box short of a disaster but in the future I'll stick with KDE capable distros.
/run is actually a tmpfs mount, so it goes away on reboot.
That's part of the appeal of rolling distributions, I guess. They're
supposed to break more often because of the constant updates, but they actually seem to break less because the updates are many but small
rather than few and large.
On 2025-02-14 5:21 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and have everything run properly from the very beginning.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:53:11 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-02-14 5:21 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about the
source of the problem.
That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and have
everything run properly from the very beginning.
You were the one using the Ford and complaining about the freezes, I was merely pointing out ways to get clues as to what is causing them. Wouldn’t you rather they were fixed?
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 08:51:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere.
I don’t understand the point of any of them.
They seem like attempts to
retrofit something that looks like MSI (only slightly better designed)
onto the Linux ecosystem.
Why?
Clearly it is to woo the proprietary
software developers -- the ones who don’t want to release their source
code to let the distro maintainers worry about packaging.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry around
all its dependencies with it,
instead of being able to share dependencies through the package system.
The idea that developers, particularly
proprietary developers, can do a better job of keeping these dependencies
up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.
On 2025-02-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-14 2:43 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-13, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-13 1:41 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-12, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-12 1:24 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-11, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-11 1:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-10, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-10 2:54 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-09, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-02-08 12:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-02-08 10:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-02-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-02-08 3:49 a.m., RonB wrote:
I guess checking the battery capacity is the last thing my Latitude 5300
will ever do on Windows 11. When I exited it did a small update. When I
rebooted after the update it wanted to do a disk check (and I stupidly let
it do so). After doing that and rebooting it ran into a BSOD ("we ran into a
problem"). It then wants to run diagnostics, attempts a repair and... we
start the whole loop all over again. (I tried this about six times and
finally told myself, "well, enough of that bullshit.") >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Adios WinCrap 11. the space can better be used by Linux Mint anyhow (which
still boots fine). Another computer that will be completely freed from
Windows.
I would be lying if I said that it never happened to me before.
I was beginning to think Windows 11 was fairly solid. This surprised me. I
don't why, but I had a bad feeling when I let it do a "disk check." I was
more worried that Windows would trash my Linux grub setup for booting,
though, I didn't think it would trash itself.
I went ahead and deleted the Windows partitions with GParted and installed
Debian 12 in its place. I'm experimenting with creating .deb packages for
Trelby (which I found isn't that hard to do) so it'll be nice to have a
Debian install for testing purposes. (Linux Mint is more like Ubuntu and
Debian and LM are actually different enough that I have to test both.)
Speaking of Ubuntu, I've come to despise it and it's damn Snaps. I found out
that the Snap version of Firefox refuses to read .html files if they're not
in the home (and/or, I suppose, the Snap) directory. The documentation for
Trelby can't be read by it (installed in its normal directory). When I
uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, it won't allow me to install the .deb
version. They're definitely turning into control freaks at Ubuntu (kind of
like Windows and Mac OS).
I'm not a fan of Flatpak or Snap anymore and see them both as something
to use if you don't have a choice. I like the theory behind both, but
they often ignore your theme, take longer to load or have trouble
integrating with the rest of the system. If I absolutely had to go for
one or the other though, I would choose Flatpak even though Snap is
theoretically superior.
I don't like Snaps at all. I do tolerate FlatPaks (and use a few of them)
but if I knew how to make AppImages that's what I would prefer for Trelby.
And it's not Snaps I really dislike, it's Ubuntu forcing them on you.
There's other things I don't like about Ubuntu. It would definitely not be
in my top 20 list.
I have to admit that during the short period of time during which I used
Ubuntu recently, I was surprised that just about everything I was >>>>>>>>>>>> running was a Snap. For security reasons, it made sense (the browser,
the e-mail client), but certain other things would have run just as well
if they were simple .deb files. They want to make Snap a standard, that
much is clear, and they're taking advantage of the distribution's >>>>>>>>>>>> popularity to do so.
I think you're right. I think they're completely sold on the "container"
idea — everything in its own "silo" (or whatever they call it, "sandbox"
maybe). To me that means you lose the advatage of Linux, where small
applications are combined to create bigger applications, in one nice "flow."
This may be a good idea for servers, but I don't think there are other ways
to secure (harden) servers. I don't like it on a personal computer at all.
I think they call these "container" distributions. Fedora has one, CoreOS,
but they keep it separate from their standard install. That's what I wish
Ubuntu would do as, apparently, they have something called Ubuntu Core. Save
the damn Snaps for that. I guess the big one (so far) is Alpine. I don't
know if these use special containers, or Snaps or Flatpaks, or what.
I have no doubt that taking an all .deb or all .rpm approach might >>>>>>>>>> result in some things breaking along the way. However, there is no doubt
that it's quite secure and much faster than the container approach. When
all the software you're getting is coming out of a repository which has
been checked thoroughly by professionals, and not anywhere on the web,
I'm not sure what the need for contained software is. Granted, Flatpak
and Snap make software which _isn't_ available to a repository available
to your choice of a distribution, and that is definitely an advantage.
Security, however, should not be the main reason for using Snap or Flatpak.
Personally I like (well made) AppImages better than either Flatpaks or
Snaps, but I do use about five Flatpaks. I quit using Snaps when I >>>>>>>>> discovered they showed up like drive partitions when I did a _df_ to check
my drive space. I didn't like that.
I'm not sure why they bothered making Flatpaks and Snaps when AppImages
work pretty much everywhere. I mean, how can you beat something which >>>>>>>> requires nothing more than for you to make it executable?
Agreed. But some people make AppImages that don't include all the >>>>>>> dependencies, so they can be "mis-made."
Considering AppImage exists since 2004, it's a wonder that Red Hat and >>>>>> Canonical felt the need to create their own. It might have been easier >>>>>> to just improve it and make sure that it integrates properly with the >>>>>> system.
I think Canonical wanted to control an Apple style "app store." I didn't >>>>> realize that Red Hat was a big supporter for flatpak. But I do know I like
flatpaks better than snaps. As far as not using AppImage... I have no idea
why they (at least Red Hat) didn't go that direction.
Actually, I read that Snaps were superior to Flatpaks. The problem is
that Canonical has ultimate control over their storage and distribution. >>>> I don't mind that Canonical was trying an Apple-style approach since
Shuttleworth made a significant investment in Linux and wants to get
that money back, but I do think that Flatpak is a smart alternative to >>>> ensure that Canonical doesn't control the operating system as much as it >>>> does Ubuntu itself. What Canonical does with Ubuntu is their own
business and people are free to use it or ignore it.
In my opinion Snaps are not superior to Flatpaks. Snaps are invasive,
Flatpaks are easily removed. As I mentioned in another post, Trelby
(screenwriting software) includes an HTML manual. It's normal location is >>> /usr/trelby/trelby (up until a recent release, it's now under
usr/lib/python3.xx/dist-pkgs... — something like that). But the Snap version
of Firefox can't read anything in the /usr subdirectoryy (actually I don't >>> think it can read *any* file in the root directory). So Snap forces you to >>> try to work around it's non-standard BS, making a .deb installation package >>> fail that works with any other Firefox installation. (This is just one
example.)
I won't Snaps, even if there's an application that only is available as a >>> Snap. That's how much I don't like them.
I honestly feel that most people think the way that you do as it relates
to Snaps. That might be why Ubuntu's popularity is steadily decreasing
with time.
Ubuntu wants to control how their users interact with their OS. Kind of like Microsoft and Apple. Maybe there is some reason for this, but I know that, over the years, I've moved from being enthusiastic about Ubuntu to not wanting to use it at all (at least not on the Desktop). I've currently got a Ubuntu server running as a test bed for my wife and her teaching software (Moodle).
Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.
Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
to install a working binary with it.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
around all its dependencies with it,
On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.
I sure miss the 90s when I was completely ignorant of politics and
"social injustice."
On another topic, the local media is complaining that JD Vance's speech
to the European leaders was "troubling." Of course, these cunts are
banking on the fact that most of their viewers and readers won't
actually hear or read Vance's speech. Literally _none_ of what he said
should be abhorrent to a freedom-minded individual.
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.
On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.
On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.
Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided
by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.
I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
If a developer offers his software for everyone he has to provide a way
to install a working binary with it.
Nope. Just leave the building and packaging to the distro maintainers. That’s something they know how to do.
The downside is that each SnapImage/FlatApp/whatever has to carry
around all its dependencies with it,
On a modern system, it's not an issue anymore.
The idea that developers, particularly proprietary developers, can do
a better job of keeping these dependencies up to date than the distro maintainers (whose job it is to do just that), just seems laughable.
No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown developer.
On 2025-02-15 1:53 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:53:11 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-02-14 5:21 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
There are lots of things you can do to try to get more clues about
the source of the problem.
That's like buying a Ford which theoretically runs great if you don't
mind constantly fixing it whereas you can just buy an Infiniti and
have everything run properly from the very beginning.
You were the one using the Ford and complaining about the freezes, I
was merely pointing out ways to get clues as to what is causing them.
Wouldn’t you rather they were fixed?
I would rather such problems not be there in the first place, from the
very beginning, on a clean install.
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last
time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.
On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch. On
Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself. You have
to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:39:24 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I sure miss the 90s when I was completely ignorant of politics and
"social injustice."
Must have been nice. I got a big dose of 'social justice' in the '60s.
On another topic, the local media is complaining that JD Vance's speech
to the European leaders was "troubling." Of course, these cunts are
banking on the fact that most of their viewers and readers won't
actually hear or read Vance's speech. Literally _none_ of what he said
should be abhorrent to a freedom-minded individual.
Vance outdid himself by skipping Scholz and meeting with Alice Weidel. The European elites have been trying to pretend anything further right than a Soros backed organization doesn't exist. I hope their wake up call is good and hard.
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
Le 15-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Maybe things changed since I looked at that the last time. But, the last >>> time I checked the msi provided only a way to install easily a new
software on Windows. And sometimes with something to remove them. There
was nothing about the updates.
On Ubuntu Brave is a snap. On Windows Brave will tell you when an update
is available, allow you to download it, and apply it on relaunch.
So, in that case, it's not managed by the package installer, but by the application itself. Which is different. And the purpose of the package manager is for the software to avoid doing this.
On Ubuntu, Brave will show the update but can't apply it by itself.
You have to update the snap and relaunch. Minor annoyance.
So here, the information comes from the software but the package manager takes care of the update. Which is the proper way, because if the
software didn't checked itself, the package manager would have done it.
Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so
it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided >>> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be
able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.
I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.
I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.
... time for a git pull ...
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
On 16 Feb 2025 00:36:12 GMT, vallor wrote:
... time for a git pull ...
I never do git-pull.
I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.
Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be somewhat easier now.
It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I
figured out what that means), seems to work well.
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:I still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
I'm glad that I wasn't a 20-year-old back then. I might have ended up pretending to be hippy to get access to all the easy women.
I doubt it will do anything but embolden the elites.
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
On 14 Feb 2025 21:43:32 GMT, vallor wrote:
/run is actually a tmpfs mount, so it goes away on reboot.
Understood, but until reboot does it keep caching data? The Ubuntu box has been rebooted recently as I tried to solve a sound problem but the Fedora
box has been up for 39 days. That's hardly a record. Often the machines
are up until a power outage exceeds the UPS capacity.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware >>> BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows >>laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on >>Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
"Usenet rando"? Are you drinking, or something? I'm speaking
objectively, there are a finite number of known NNTP clients in the
universe, Agent stands out among them.
On 15 Feb 2025 22:36:39 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
No distro maintainer will package an unknown software made by un unknown
developer.
Not sure what that’s supposed to mean.
There are a couple of packages in the standard Debian repo with my
name on them; do I count as an “unknown developer” to you?
Debian is huge: I think there’s something like 50,000 packages in the standard repo.
You think there are that number of famous-name developers out there?
Remember also that each distro includes all the tools for maintenance of
the distro itself, as open source, in its standard repo. It is usually
quite easy for users to create their own add-on repos, with additional packages not available in the standard distribution -- Ubuntu PPAs are one well-known example of this.
And from there, it’s not a big step, if there is sufficient demand, for a package to migrate from an “unofficial” repo to an “official” one.
This is how the Open Source community works.
Everything comes from those who choose to contribute,
not from those who just sit on their bums and complain.
On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote
in <67b10f38$0$28493$426a34cc@news.free.fr>:
Le 15-02-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Now, on some systems, like ubuntu, python is managed by the system, so >>>> it refuses to execute a "pip install". And if the library isn't provided >>>> by ubuntu, you have to run "pip install" in a virtual environment to be >>>> able to use a library designed not to be shared with the libraries of
the system.
I believe 'sudo pip install xxxxx' will work although I prefer to use
venvs. Installing to the system libs might be preferable for something
like ruff but I still do that in the venv.
I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.
It also gives instructions on how to set up a venv, which (once I figured out what that means), seems to work well.
On 15 Feb 2025 22:03:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
I can't test it now, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The error
message was explicit. It didn't said "you don't have the authorisation".
It said something like "the libraries are managed by your distribution
and you should use the package manager of your distribution instead, run
sudo apt install". I'm sure there are ways to force "pip install" to run
anyway, but I strongly believe it would be a bad idea because I have no
idea about the side effects.
× This environment is externally managed
╰─> To install Python packages system-wide, try apt install
python3-xyz, where xyz is the package you are trying to
install.
sudo apt install python3-ruff
did work and it is in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ruff. It might have been OpenSUSE 13.2 where you could force feed it.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 19:32:48 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Brave is now available through the Windows Store, so updating should be
somewhat easier now.
On Windows it's click on the reddish 'Update Available' and relaunch after it's downloaded. Can't get easier. It's only on Ubuntu where you click and
it says no can do and you have to mess around with snap. iirc you also
have to 'killall brave' since snap isn't very good at updating running processes.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in <47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware >>>> BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, >>>> but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows >>>laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on >>>Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in >>>KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than
Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware >>>>> BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, >>>>> but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows >>>>laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on >>>>Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in >>>>KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than
Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass.
I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.
I should add this:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
vallor wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 07:50:02 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> >> wrote in <vosmtq$jcde$1@dont-email.me>:doom was a game , heretic was a game , then there were no games any more
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in >>>> <47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, >>>>>>> but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in >>>>>> KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than >>>>> Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client, >>>>> native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass.
I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.
I should add this:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Oh yeah? Well:
I fly spaceships in Elite Dangerous Odyssey. All other games suck!
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 07:50:02 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vosmtq$jcde$1@dont-email.me>:
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass.
I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.
I should add this:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Oh yeah? Well:
I fly spaceships in Elite Dangerous Odyssey. All other games suck!
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:13:48 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in <0bi2rjtfpg16d2fmbfbjkn4hn2nmqoobji@4ax.com>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 21:26:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'OliveiroI still cannot get pan working under MX Linux.
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vor0pa$6uru$1@dont-email.me>:
On 15 Feb 2025 11:27:36 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Nobody want to install something from source anymore.
That’s why most distros offer prebuilt binaries.
Pssst...time for a git pull on your pan repo. ;)
It installs from the repo fine, brings down messages fine
but if I try to reply to a message it tosses an error something
like message not found.
I'm probably messing up the specifics as it's been a while but still
it does not work.
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for
hobbyware BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in
terminal, but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan is not "hobbyware", any more than the Linux kernel is.
It's also under continuous development. The last Forte Agent
was released over 10 years ago. Get a clue, noob.
Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:
On 2025-02-16, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote:i'm afraid you are off topic
vallor wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 07:50:02 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> >>>> wrote in <vosmtq$jcde$1@dont-email.me>:doom was a game , heretic was a game , then there were no games any more
vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in >>>>>> <47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware
BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal,
but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows
laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on
Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in >>>>>>>> KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than >>>>>>> Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client, >>>>>>> native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good >>>>>>> reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass.
I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.
I should add this:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Oh yeah? Well:
I fly spaceships in Elite Dangerous Odyssey. All other games suck!
Goat Simulator 3.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in <47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware >>>> BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, >>>> but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows >>> laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on >>> Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in
KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than
Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
On 2025-02-15, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:39:24 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
I sure miss the 90s when I was completely ignorant of politics and
"social injustice."
Must have been nice. I got a big dose of 'social justice' in the '60s.
On another topic, the local media is complaining that JD Vance's speech
to the European leaders was "troubling." Of course, these cunts are
banking on the fact that most of their viewers and readers won't
actually hear or read Vance's speech. Literally _none_ of what he said
should be abhorrent to a freedom-minded individual.
Vance outdid himself by skipping Scholz and meeting with Alice Weidel. The >> European elites have been trying to pretend anything further right than a
Soros backed organization doesn't exist. I hope their wake up call is good >> and hard.
The EU is complaining about Vance's "election interference" when they send delegates to Ukraine and Georgia to overturn the results of elections (in Ukraine successfully), or in Romania where they forced the government to nullify an election because the wrong man won. These people are nothing but hypocritical drones doing the bidding of the Rothschild cabal — what's vaguely called the "Deep State."
I use slrn. All other newsreaders suck ass. I use mutt. All other email clients suck ass.
The people behind it can't even be bothered to fix the interface and
take it out of mid-1990s.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:40:02 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
The people behind it can't even be bothered to fix the interface and
take it out of mid-1990s.
Form wins over function, eh? Never mind what the software *does*, what matters is how it *looks*.
On 2025-02-17 12:29 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:40:02 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
The people behind it can't even be bothered to fix the interface and
take it out of mid-1990s.
Form wins over function, eh? Never mind what the software *does*, what
matters is how it *looks*.
It *does* a poor job of filtering posts.
On 2025-02-16 12:32 a.m., vallor wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 23:48:30 -0500, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<47r2rjl9jlr629og8qceqp8fgfhtmh5sv8@4ax.com>:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
This would be why I use Forte Agent under Wine, why settle for hobbyware >>>>> BS like Pan? Unix-like has terrific NNTP clients running in terminal, >>>>> but I have yet to see a GUI one worth anything.
Pan works for me. If I want to run Windows stuff, I'll fire up the Windows >>>> laptop. It's been a while but iirc I have usenet set up in Thunderbird on >>>> Windows. It got weird on Linux and I switched to Pan.
I used to like KNode but that's history now. Usenet gets no respect in >>>> KDE.
My philosophy is to use the best, the latest, up-to-date, user-
friendly software for a given purpose. It's pretty simple, other than
Usenapp for macOS, Forte Agent stands as a flagship GUI NNTP client,
native to Windows API but usable under Wine. There's just no good
reason to put up with something less than.
I've seen editor wars, and OS wars, but this is the first time
I've seen some Usenet rando try to start a newsreader war.
Betterbird is greater than every other newsreader.
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