Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
to one or two.
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 12:33:50 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
to one or two.
I don't have a Macbook or a Cinnamon installation but LibreOffice Writer comes up in less than 2 seconds on my Ubuntu box. Also, it is not a snap.
On 2025-03-18, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 12:33:50 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months, >>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook >>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs >>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start) >>> to one or two.
I don't have a Macbook or a Cinnamon installation but LibreOffice Writer
comes up in less than 2 seconds on my Ubuntu box. Also, it is not a snap.
I'm definitely not a fan of Snaps. And nothing I've seen about them or experienced with them lately is likely to change my mind.
On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with
Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months,
I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook
Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs
a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I
imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start)
to one or two.
I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the
GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
what kind of chaos will result from the change.
I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11 instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11 doesn't do this.
Change isn't always for the better.
Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:21:09 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Wayland_(protocol)#Desktop_Linux_distributions
"Ubuntu shipped with Wayland by default in Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark). [92] However, Ubuntu 18.04 LTS reverted to X.Org by default due to several issues.[93][94] Since Ubuntu 21.04, Wayland is the default again."
OS: Ubuntu oracular 24.10 x86_64
Host: SER
Kernel: Linux 6.11.0-19-generic
Uptime: 7 days, 55 mins
Packages: 3007 (dpkg), 35 (snap)
Shell: bash 5.2.32
Display (Acer Technologies 24"): 1920x1080 @ 60Hz [External]
DE: GNOME 47.0
WM: Mutter (Wayland)
WM Theme: Yaru
That's the Ubuntu box. The Fedora 41 box
DE: KDE Plasma 6.3.3
WM: Kwin (Wayland)
WM Theme: Breeze
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a flatpak.
On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with >>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months, >>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook >>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless
drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs >>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I >>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start) >>>> to one or two.
I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the >>>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already
shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine
what kind of chaos will result from the change.
I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their
directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have
the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the
three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.
Okay, I don't know enough about it to contradict you. It's probably Snap and Flatpaks security features that get in the way of applications working properly. So another reason not to like Snap. I'll reserve judgment on Flatpak because I found a workaround for Trelby's PDF issue and, I'm guessing, the person who made the Trelby Flatpak probably left something
out.
At any rate I "found" (someone told me at the GitHub site) that you can give Trelby access to the /tmp directory and it will allow you to use the default PDF application. So it's a workaround, but it works.
Just type (or copy and paste) into the terminal...
flatpak override --user --filesystem=/tmp org.trelby.Trelby
I still don't know how to customize a Snap version of Firefox, however. And
I still don't like that Snaps appear as "partitions" when you run a df command. I've removed all Snaps from my computers.
There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11
instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is
blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11
doesn't do this.
Change isn't always for the better.
Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that
release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap
since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based
on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
I'm pretty sure Ubuntu 24.04 defaults to Wayland. But I may be wrong about that. I think I had to disable Wayland the last time I tried a desktop version of Ubuntu.
That's nice. However, I actually checked which window manager it was
using on several occasions, and it clearly said X11. Even the reviews of 24.04 say that it is using X11 by default, and that it would default to Wayland in 24.10.
That's what I thought (when using Ubuntu).
Notice the headline for this article: <https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every
time I checked, it said X11.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:11:30 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
Notice the headline for this article:
<https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every
time I checked, it said X11.
You made the assumption that because you use Nvidia it your setup applies
to all Ubuntu installations. It doesn't.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 08:03:35 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
That's nice. However, I actually checked which window manager it was
using on several occasions, and it clearly said X11. Even the reviews of
24.04 say that it is using X11 by default, and that it would default to
Wayland in 24.10.
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/04/21/ubuntu-22-04-lts-with-gnome-42-and- wayland-as-the-default/
"Wayland is the default display server on Ubuntu 22.04 LTS, even for
devices with Nvidia video cards. Previously, devices with Nvidia cards
fell back to using Xorg because of incompatibilities between Nvidia
drivers and Wayland."
You're special.
I'm tempted to install it again on the damned MacBook Air 2017 just to
take a screenshot and show you that it said very clearly that it was
running on X11. Maybe Wayland doesn't support the Intel HD 6000 series?
Even the trackpad gestures I would usually rely on which work on Wayland didn't work on Ubuntu. Besides, it was 24.04, not 22.04.
I just did a search and people were apparently reporting issues with
their Intel graphics and Wayland. Perhaps Canonical forced X11 for those machines.
On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 19:52:00 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'm tempted to install it again on the damned MacBook Air 2017 just to
take a screenshot and show you that it said very clearly that it was
running on X11. Maybe Wayland doesn't support the Intel HD 6000 series?
Even the trackpad gestures I would usually rely on which work on Wayland
didn't work on Ubuntu. Besides, it was 24.04, not 22.04.
It's entirely possible a 8 year old Macbook can't handle Wayland.
I just did a search and people were apparently reporting issues with
their Intel graphics and Wayland. Perhaps Canonical forced X11 for those
machines.
We're really getting into special cases now but my Fedora box is Wayland
and it runs fine on an Intel Xeon E3 GPU, but then its KDE and not GNOME.
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a flatpak.
On 2025-03-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 01:34, RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-19 00:58, RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
Having discovered that Ubuntu intends to replace the GNU utilities with >>>>>> Rust equivalents which may or may not work as well in the coming months, >>>>>> I switched over to Linux Mint 22.1 from Ubuntu 24.04 on this old Macbook >>>>>> Air 2017. Not only does it bundle the necessary, proprietary wireless >>>>>> drivers allowing for a smooth install unlike Ubuntu, but Linux Mint runs >>>>>> a _lot_ faster under Cinnamon than Ubuntu's implementation of GNOME. I >>>>>> imagine that most of it is due to the use of Snap. For example,
LibreOffice went from taking about ten seconds to load (on a cold start) >>>>>> to one or two.
I can only hope that Linux Mint does not follow Ubuntu in removing the >>>>>> GNU utilities in favour of the rewritten Rust ones. They have already >>>>>> shown themselves to be less than 100% compatible, so you can imagine >>>>>> what kind of chaos will result from the change.
I'm finding out that the Firefox Snap can't read files in the non-local user
directory and Flatpaks can't work with applications outside of their >>>>> directory. I also can't (or don't know how) to customize the Snap version of
Firefox. I think AppImage is the best of the three.
While AppImage does a stellar job, the reality is that it doesn't have >>>> the security features of Flatpak or Snap. If I had to choose between the >>>> three, Flatpak looks like it is far and beyond the best compromise.
Okay, I don't know enough about it to contradict you. It's probably Snap and
Flatpaks security features that get in the way of applications working
properly. So another reason not to like Snap. I'll reserve judgment on
Flatpak because I found a workaround for Trelby's PDF issue and, I'm
guessing, the person who made the Trelby Flatpak probably left something >>> out.
At any rate I "found" (someone told me at the GitHub site) that you can give
Trelby access to the /tmp directory and it will allow you to use the default
PDF application. So it's a workaround, but it works.
Just type (or copy and paste) into the terminal...
flatpak override --user --filesystem=/tmp org.trelby.Trelby
I still don't know how to customize a Snap version of Firefox, however. And >>> I still don't like that Snaps appear as "partitions" when you run a df
command. I've removed all Snaps from my computers.
There might be another reason Linux Mint is faster. LM defaults to X11 >>>>> instead of Wayland. On my (older) machines Wayland leaves artifacts (is >>>>> blotchy in the dark parts of videos, which I guess are artifacts). X11 >>>>> doesn't do this.
Change isn't always for the better.
Ubuntu 24.04 still uses X11. It seems to default to Wayland after that >>>> release. The slow performance really does seem to be the result of Snap >>>> since even the interface itself shouldn't be slower as it is also based >>>> on GTK3 like Cinnamon.
I'm pretty sure Ubuntu 24.04 defaults to Wayland. But I may be wrong about >>> that. I think I had to disable Wayland the last time I tried a desktop
version of Ubuntu.
Notice the headline for this article:
<https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/05/ubuntu-24-10-wayland-nvidia>
It is trivial to check which window manager you use in Ubuntu. Every
time I checked, it said X11.
Was this on the Mac? Maybe it determined the GPU wasn't new enough for Wayland?
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might >>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago >>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
On 2025-03-21, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might >>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago >>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a >>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I >>> can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a >>> flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is
much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
I've been using Linux Mint for about 17 years, so I don't know when it got faster, but it does seem to improve with each update. So, for me, it's been incremental improvements over the years. Kind of the opposite of Windows and Mac, which get slower with each update on the same hardware.
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might >>>>> not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools >>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just
idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago >>>>> a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a >>>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I >>>> can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list. >>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a >>>> flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out >>> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is >>> much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively
new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least
feels adequate eight years later.
The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop. But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools >>>>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just >>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a >>>>>>> theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage. >>>>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list. >>>>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a >>>>>> flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out >>>>> the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is >>>>> much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively
new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least >>>> feels adequate eight years later.
The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop. >>> But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the >>> E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the
128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't
even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number
of years before needing to switch the storage.
The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8 GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
On 2025-03-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 11:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools >>>>>>>>> that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just >>>>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage. >>>>>>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list. >>>>>>>> There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is
much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively >>>>>> new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least >>>>>> feels adequate eight years later.
The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop.
But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the >>>>> E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the >>>> 128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't
even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number >>>> of years before needing to switch the storage.
The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8 >>> GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by
the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
Tell yourself that if you were a Mac user, you would have no choice but
to bury that thing next to the family dog because it is officially
useless. Of course, with something like Linux Mint, it is still good in
2025.
On the other hand, I know that some Mac users that are still rocking
their 2012 machines.
The MacBook Air definitely slowed down when I upgraded from Catalina to Monterey. (If I had realized how quickly Monterey was going to be EOL'd I wouldn't have bothered.) So I tried a Live USB version of Linux Mint
Cinnamon 22.1 last night (after figuring out I needed to use the Option key at boot instead of Command+R). Worked well. If the keyboard wasn't so funky
I would probably just install Linux Mint and keep it. Maybe I will anyhow, I don't know. I do admit that the build on the Apple MacBooks is pretty nice. (Although I really got it just to test a few Apple-only applications.)
Even though the WiFi card is Broadcom, Linux Mint has no trouble installing
a good driver for it — speed was impressive. At least on par with my Latitude E7450 (which is pretty good for the MacBook Air since it has half the RAM — I don't leave a lot open at once anyhow).
On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-22 3:48 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 11:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just >>>>>>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage. >>>>>>>>>> Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is
much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing.
It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter.
It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now.
It's come a long way baby!
I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively >>>>>>>> new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least >>>>>>>> feels adequate eight years later.
The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop.
But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the
E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the >>>>>> 128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't >>>>>> even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number >>>>>> of years before needing to switch the storage.
The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8 >>>>> GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by
the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
Tell yourself that if you were a Mac user, you would have no choice but >>>> to bury that thing next to the family dog because it is officially
useless. Of course, with something like Linux Mint, it is still good in >>>> 2025.
On the other hand, I know that some Mac users that are still rocking
their 2012 machines.
The MacBook Air definitely slowed down when I upgraded from Catalina to
Monterey. (If I had realized how quickly Monterey was going to be EOL'd I >>> wouldn't have bothered.) So I tried a Live USB version of Linux Mint
Cinnamon 22.1 last night (after figuring out I needed to use the Option key >>> at boot instead of Command+R). Worked well. If the keyboard wasn't so funky >>> I would probably just install Linux Mint and keep it. Maybe I will anyhow, I
don't know. I do admit that the build on the Apple MacBooks is pretty nice. >>> (Although I really got it just to test a few Apple-only applications.)
Even though the WiFi card is Broadcom, Linux Mint has no trouble installing >>> a good driver for it — speed was impressive. At least on par with my
Latitude E7450 (which is pretty good for the MacBook Air since it has half >>> the RAM — I don't leave a lot open at once anyhow).
Installing Linux Mint on the MacBook Air was trouble free whereas doing
the same with Ubuntu required me to download the proprietary drivers
through a Bluetooth connection to my phone. For that reason alone, Mint
gets my vote. The fact that it is so much faster only adds to that.
I have to admit I'm not a fan of its keyboard either. It got good
reviews, but I find it fairly mushy.
I was thinking more in terms of the Macs key layout (I use the Control key a lot). The quality of the 2015 MacBook's keyboard is pretty good. But I have read in the past that the 2017 MacBook Air was a bit thinner than the 2015 (and earlier models) and did have issues with a mushy keyboard.
Here's one of many comments on the 2017 keyboard (this one found on
Reddit) about it...
2017 here. Owned mine about a year. Keys stick randomly. Thankfully
they’ve always come back eventually. Still frustrating as heck. Easily
the worst keyboard Apple has ever released, both in terms of reliability
and satisfaction. It’s a total POS to type on. Go find a 2015 and wait
until Apple realises thinner isn’t always better if it means sacrificing
quality and functionality.
Some of the posters in this particular thread thought it might have
something to do with too much heat.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8ippga/how_bad_are_the_keyboard_issues_on_the_2017_model/
(Now that I look a little closer I see that these comments were specifically about the MacBook Pros, not the Airs so, hopefully, they were worse than
your Air.) I do think however, that they 2017 keyboards were not well received. I think they went to a different keyboard a couple years later.
On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-23 3:06 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:All I can say for sure is that I wouldn't feel comfortable typing on the
On 2025-03-22 3:48 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 11:01 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-21 1:20 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2025-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:57 p.m., pothead wrote:
On 2025-03-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 09:31:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>
If anyone out there is a fan of Snaps, then there is a chance they might
not be fans of Ubuntu itself. The idea of switching out the GNU tools
that work perfectly well in favour of rewritten Rust ones is just >>>>>>>>>>>>> idiotic. I would trust the people who produced the GNU tools decades ago
a lot more than the filthy hippies who will rewrite them in Rust for a
theoretical benefit in regards to memory.
I've been running Ubuntu as my main machine. I'm not a fan of GNOME but I
can live with it. I can also like with snap, flatpak, and AppImage.
Brave is the only app that shows up both in the snap and flatpak list.
There isn't a lot of consistency. Firefox and dotnet are snaps, Vim is a
flatpak.
I've been running MXLinux for a long time, years in fact, but I tried out
the latest version of LinuxMint Cinnamon and on the same hardware it is
much, much faster than MXLinux.
Especially with regards to loading browsers and surfing. >>>>>>>>>>> It was painfully slow under MXLinux. Browser didn't matter. >>>>>>>>>>> It's not even close.
I wasn't a fan of LinuxMint in the past but I sure am now. >>>>>>>>>>>
It's come a long way baby!
I'm a fan now. It made the pathetic the old hardware feel relatively >>>>>>>>>> new. Its 5250U processor wasn't even good at the time, but it at least
feels adequate eight years later.
The 5250U is faster than the 5300U that's in my Dell Latitude E7450 laptop.
But they're pretty closely related. I'm happy with the performance of the
E7450 (I do have 16 GBs of RAM, so that might help.)
The Mac's got 8GB with no possibility of upgrading it. I can replace the
128GB it came with, I even have the adapter for it, but Mint doesn't >>>>>>>> even fill up the 128GB. At 25% wear, I think I can run it for a number >>>>>>>> of years before needing to switch the storage.
The MacBook Air that I haven't yet sold (2015 version) is also stuck at 8
GBs. I can't remember what CPU it uses (it looks like a 5250U like yours) by
the specs I find online. It's also at 128 GBs.
Tell yourself that if you were a Mac user, you would have no choice but >>>>>> to bury that thing next to the family dog because it is officially >>>>>> useless. Of course, with something like Linux Mint, it is still good in >>>>>> 2025.
On the other hand, I know that some Mac users that are still rocking >>>>>> their 2012 machines.
The MacBook Air definitely slowed down when I upgraded from Catalina to >>>>> Monterey. (If I had realized how quickly Monterey was going to be EOL'd I >>>>> wouldn't have bothered.) So I tried a Live USB version of Linux Mint >>>>> Cinnamon 22.1 last night (after figuring out I needed to use the Option key
at boot instead of Command+R). Worked well. If the keyboard wasn't so funky
I would probably just install Linux Mint and keep it. Maybe I will anyhow, I
don't know. I do admit that the build on the Apple MacBooks is pretty nice.
(Although I really got it just to test a few Apple-only applications.) >>>>>
Even though the WiFi card is Broadcom, Linux Mint has no trouble installing
a good driver for it — speed was impressive. At least on par with my >>>>> Latitude E7450 (which is pretty good for the MacBook Air since it has half
the RAM — I don't leave a lot open at once anyhow).
Installing Linux Mint on the MacBook Air was trouble free whereas doing >>>> the same with Ubuntu required me to download the proprietary drivers
through a Bluetooth connection to my phone. For that reason alone, Mint >>>> gets my vote. The fact that it is so much faster only adds to that.
I have to admit I'm not a fan of its keyboard either. It got good
reviews, but I find it fairly mushy.
I was thinking more in terms of the Macs key layout (I use the Control key a
lot). The quality of the 2015 MacBook's keyboard is pretty good. But I have >>> read in the past that the 2017 MacBook Air was a bit thinner than the 2015 >>> (and earlier models) and did have issues with a mushy keyboard.
Here's one of many comments on the 2017 keyboard (this one found on
Reddit) about it...
2017 here. Owned mine about a year. Keys stick randomly. Thankfully
they’ve always come back eventually. Still frustrating as heck. Easily
the worst keyboard Apple has ever released, both in terms of reliability
and satisfaction. It’s a total POS to type on. Go find a 2015 and wait
until Apple realises thinner isn’t always better if it means sacrificing
quality and functionality.
Some of the posters in this particular thread thought it might have
something to do with too much heat.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8ippga/how_bad_are_the_keyboard_issues_on_the_2017_model/
(Now that I look a little closer I see that these comments were specifically
about the MacBook Pros, not the Airs so, hopefully, they were worse than >>> your Air.) I do think however, that they 2017 keyboards were not well
received. I think they went to a different keyboard a couple years later. >>
2017 keyboard all day. I gave away a Toshiba laptop from around 2007
which had a stellar keyboard: it had thick keys that traveled as much as
a typical Logitech keyboard would. That type, unfortunately, has been
retired in favour of thin and unreliable. After a decade, the Toshiba
laptop's keyboard was still operational. Mac keyboards, as well as the
one on the laptop I'm using at the moment, can't seemingly go longer
than two or three years.
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