It blocks legitimate software and even does _that_ inconsistently. > Sometimes, it thinks the software is fine, only to turn around> on the next boot to treat the program as malware.>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/app-browser-control-in-the-windows-security-app-8f68fb65-ebb4-3cfb-4bd7-ef0f376f3dc3#bkmk_smart-app-control
On Wed, 3/26/2025 8:16 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
It blocks legitimate software and even does _that_ inconsistently. > Sometimes, it thinks the software is fine, only to turn around> on the next boot to treat the program as malware.>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/app-browser-control-in-the-windows-security-app-8f68fb65-ebb4-3cfb-4bd7-ef0f376f3dc3#bkmk_smart-app-control
"Smart App Control
Smart App Control adds significant protection from new and emerging
threats by blocking apps that are malicious or untrusted. Smart App Control
also helps to block potentially unwanted apps, which are apps that may
cause your device to run slowly, display unexpected ads, offer extra
software you didn't want [m365], or do other things you don't expect.
Smart App Control works alongside your other security software, such
as Microsoft Defender or non-Microsoft antivirus tools, for added protection.
"
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
Sometimes, the pattern in there, indicates problems you did not know existed. That's why I am recommending a look in there, because your symptoms
suggests the machine has some kind of health problem. Logged in there, is activity you would not normally know is happening.
I've seen some pretty weird shit in this OS -- in one case weird enough
I wrote up a Feedback Hub entry for it. Most of these correlate with being
in the middle of a Windows Update (and some services have been shut off).
A reboot cures a few of the problems, but not all of them.
There are a significant number of failed "App" updates coming from the Microsoft Store in the reliability panel. But I'm not going to work on
those, unless I can find an updated "err-6.4.5.exe" program, which prints
out reasons for an error, based on the error hex number. Googling
your ass off, using the error codes in the reliability panel, that's
not going to find all the error codes. While the date here is 2024, I think this particular one came from a further back point in time.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=100432
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 21:44:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in <vs2ahb$32fhn$1@dont-email.me>:
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
Ugh. Why do you have to tolerate such jaggy fonts?
https://imgur.com/4PKSki0
On 2025-03-26 9:44 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Wed, 3/26/2025 8:16 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
It blocks legitimate software and even does _that_ inconsistently. > Sometimes, it thinks the software is fine, only to turn around> on the next boot to treat the program as malware.>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/app-browser-control-in-the-windows-security-app-8f68fb65-ebb4-3cfb-4bd7-ef0f376f3dc3#bkmk_smart-app-control
   "Smart App Control
    Smart App Control adds significant protection from new and emerging >>     threats by blocking apps that are malicious or untrusted. Smart App Control
    also helps to block potentially unwanted apps, which are apps that may
    cause your device to run slowly, display unexpected ads, offer extra
    software you didn't want [m365], or do other things you don't expect.
    Smart App Control works alongside your other security software, such
    as Microsoft Defender or non-Microsoft antivirus tools, for added protection.
   "
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
   [Picture]
    https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
Sometimes, the pattern in there, indicates problems you did not know existed.
That's why I am recommending a look in there, because your symptoms
suggests the machine has some kind of health problem. Logged in there, is
activity you would not normally know is happening.
I've seen some pretty weird shit in this OS -- in one case weird enough
I wrote up a Feedback Hub entry for it. Most of these correlate with being >> in the middle of a Windows Update (and some services have been shut off).
A reboot cures a few of the problems, but not all of them.
There are a significant number of failed "App" updates coming from the
Microsoft Store in the reliability panel. But I'm not going to work on
those, unless I can find an updated "err-6.4.5.exe" program, which prints
out reasons for an error, based on the error hex number. Googling
your ass off, using the error codes in the reliability panel, that's
not going to find all the error codes. While the date here is 2024, I think >> this particular one came from a further back point in time.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=100432
One day, it believes that ASUS's ArmouryCrate is malware and blocks parts of it.
Restart, and it suddenly thinks it's okay. Today, it decided that Samsung Magician
is malware. Restart, and it's suddenly a-ok. Enabling this function is pure masochism.
They warned me that I'd have to reinstall to re-enable, but I don't think anyone who
used it would bother to do that considering how it behaves.
On Wed, 3/26/2025 9:56 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-03-26 9:44 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Wed, 3/26/2025 8:16 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
It blocks legitimate software and even does _that_ inconsistently. > Sometimes, it thinks the software is fine, only to turn around> on the next boot to treat the program as malware.>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/app-browser-control-in-the-windows-security-app-8f68fb65-ebb4-3cfb-4bd7-ef0f376f3dc3#bkmk_smart-app-control
   "Smart App Control
    Smart App Control adds significant protection from new and emerging
    threats by blocking apps that are malicious or untrusted. Smart App Control
    also helps to block potentially unwanted apps, which are apps that may
    cause your device to run slowly, display unexpected ads, offer extra
    software you didn't want [m365], or do other things you don't expect.
    Smart App Control works alongside your other security software, such
    as Microsoft Defender or non-Microsoft antivirus tools, for added protection.
   "
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
   [Picture]
    https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
Sometimes, the pattern in there, indicates problems you did not know existed.
That's why I am recommending a look in there, because your symptoms
suggests the machine has some kind of health problem. Logged in there, is >>> activity you would not normally know is happening.
I've seen some pretty weird shit in this OS -- in one case weird enough
I wrote up a Feedback Hub entry for it. Most of these correlate with being >>> in the middle of a Windows Update (and some services have been shut off). >>> A reboot cures a few of the problems, but not all of them.
There are a significant number of failed "App" updates coming from the
Microsoft Store in the reliability panel. But I'm not going to work on
those, unless I can find an updated "err-6.4.5.exe" program, which prints >>> out reasons for an error, based on the error hex number. Googling
your ass off, using the error codes in the reliability panel, that's
not going to find all the error codes. While the date here is 2024, I think >>> this particular one came from a further back point in time.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=100432
One day, it believes that ASUS's ArmouryCrate is malware and blocks parts of it.
Restart, and it suddenly thinks it's okay. Today, it decided that Samsung Magician
is malware. Restart, and it's suddenly a-ok. Enabling this function is pure masochism.
They warned me that I'd have to reinstall to re-enable, but I don't think anyone who
used it would bother to do that considering how it behaves.
ArmouryCrate has a BIOS-level injector. I've seen an "offer" of it as
a Notification on the screen, but only on the machine with the Asus motherboard.
Both of your Apps, have a potential driver component that is setting
off the "foreign driver" detection. What you should be seeing, if
that was the case, is a Notification, but the wording is different.
For example, I was told to remove an AISuite DLL from System32, and
I didn't even know the uninstaller had failed to remove it, some time
ago. And I believe that is a driver that has an exploit to it, during installation. After a little poking around, I found a text string
to use as a research path.
OK, I used this as a Google search:
Microsoft Vulnerable Driver Blocklist
And get this as a breadcrumb.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/device-security-in-the-windows-security-app-afa11526-de57-b1c5-599f-3a4c6a61c5e2
"Windows 11 includes a blocklist of drivers that have known security vulnerabilities,
have been signed with certificates used to sign malware, or that circumvent the
Windows Security Model.
If you have memory integrity, Smart App Control, <===
or Windows S mode on,
the vulnerable driver blocklist will be on too.
"
Now, does that mean "ON" as in "armed as a malware detection"
or "ON" as in "will see a friendly notification in the lower right corner" ?
Dunno. But that's my suspicion right now. It is related somehow.
At the very least, Microsoft should have understood that both ArmouryCrate (used by most ASUS hardware) and Samsung Magician (used by most Samsung SSDs) are legitimate pieces of software and whitelisted them. The fact that even in those cases it feels the need to "detect" whether they are good or bad is troubling.
For now, I feel better disabling the setting.
On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 21:44:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in <vs2ahb$32fhn$1@dont-email.me>:
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
Ugh. Why do you have to tolerate such jaggy fonts?
https://imgur.com/4PKSki0
On Thu, 3/27/2025 8:36 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
At the very least, Microsoft should have understood that both ArmouryCrate >> (used by most ASUS hardware) and Samsung Magician (used by most Samsung SSDs)
are legitimate pieces of software and whitelisted them. The fact that even in
those cases it feels the need to "detect" whether they are good or bad is troubling.
For now, I feel better disabling the setting.
Microsoft wants to remove *all* third party drivers. That's
the long term intent. The "Vulnerable Driver Blocklist" is an
interim solution, until they are in control of all the drivers.
They want to own all of Ring 0.
And you can have a portion of Ring 3 :-)
On Wed, 3/26/2025 8:16 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:<SNIP>
It blocks legitimate software and even does _that_ inconsistently. > Sometimes, it thinks the software is fine, only to turn around> on the next boot to treat the program as malware.>https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/app-browser-control-in-the-windows-security-app-8f68fb65-ebb4-3cfb-4bd7-ef0f376f3dc3#bkmk_smart-app-control
"Smart App Control
Smart App Control adds significant protection from new and emerging
threats by blocking apps that are malicious or untrusted. Smart App Control
also helps to block potentially unwanted apps, which are apps that may
cause your device to run slowly, display unexpected ads, offer extra
software you didn't want [m365], or do other things you don't expect.
Smart App Control works alongside your other security software, such
as Microsoft Defender or non-Microsoft antivirus tools, for added protection.
"
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif
On 3/26/2025 7:44 PM, Paul wrote:[...]
Just out of curiosity, what does your Reliability panel look like ?
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/CxK20Cnk/reliability-panel-W11.gif<SNIP>
What is "reliability-panel" and how is it accessed? I'm using Windows
11. The site, i.posting.cc, seems flooded or down so no clues from there.
Paul wrote on 3/26/2025 6:44 PM:
There are a significant number of failed "App" updates coming from the Microsoft Store in the reliability panel. But I'm not going to work on those, unless I can find an updated "err-6.4.5.exe" program, which prints out reasons for an error, based on the error hex number. Googling
your ass off, using the error codes in the reliability panel, that's
not going to find all the error codes. While the date here is 2024, I think this particular one came from a further back point in time.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=100432
Paul
On this Win11 24H2 device only two 'failed app updates are periodically present(and only since 24H2 was upgraded from 23H2) in Reliability monitor
One for Windows CrossDevice and HP Printer
The former afaics due to BT/Mobile/Allow this PC to access mobile devices
is disabled(the default)
- i.e. the push from the store fails because the service is not present
The other(latter) for the HP printer because the MSFT Store HP Smart App
is installed but the exe is not running, not scheduled for updating, and newer app version not available(same version for months)
On Thu, 3/27/2025 8:36 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
At the very least, Microsoft should have understood that both ArmouryCrate >> (used by most ASUS hardware) and Samsung Magician (used by most Samsung SSDs)
are legitimate pieces of software and whitelisted them. The fact that even in
those cases it feels the need to "detect" whether they are good or bad is troubling.
For now, I feel better disabling the setting.
Microsoft wants to remove *all* third party drivers. That's
the long term intent. The "Vulnerable Driver Blocklist" is an
interim solution, until they are in control of all the drivers.
They want to own all of Ring 0.
And you can have a portion of Ring 3 :-)
Paul
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
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