XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-04-12, L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> wrote:

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

My .Xresources lists Cousine and Inconsolata, as well as for some
programs, Spleen.

There is another that I use on emacs for my desktop, but as I'm not near
it, and can't look it up, and I can't recall it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 03:25:27 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

When I use Emacs I use Courier Screenplay, but I only use Emacs with the Fountain-Mode plugin (which is used for screenplay formatting).

The question is of such burning importance to me I have no idea what font
I'm using in the various apps. One that I can read obviously. I'm amused
in the colophon of some books where they explain the font they selected at length. As long as it isn't Fraktur I'm good.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Supersedes for wrong URL and format.

L Thorpe wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc:

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

Lato >3 should be okay, although I have not taken all the time
necessary to scrutinize the font thouroughly.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

The developers have an objective in mind and pursue it for as long
as it took them.

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

I have always preferred Humanist font styles like Linux Biolinum
(Humanist font face of the Linux Libertine family).
There are other fonts that resemble that one quite closely; before
the ‘€’ sign had become necessary, I had “Stardome” which – in my memory – matched the newer font completely and I do not remember its
origin. BTW. The SoftMaker GmbH >1 in Germany proposes perfectly
written fonts and there is at least one which replaces my favorite
font perfectly. Others will do the same and I do not claim that my
predilection in fonts should be imitated by anybody!

I have less use for the serif version of the Linux Libertine family,
although it is probably great on printed media. Anyway, Biolinum
(and similar fonts) have the advantage to be usable on paper *and*
on screen, without hurting my eye.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

In a text-editor, like vim or others that do not have nifty styling
features, I use Anonymous Pro by Mark
Simonson >2.

Anywhere else it is Linux Biolinum.

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

No. I have in the past eliminated fonts that I would need later for
special purposes. Rather move them away from the
/usr/share/fonts/…/ folder that they reside in or deactivate them
if your software allows that (my text-processor does). It is too
easy to move font-files around.

Cheerio
----------------
1) <https://www.softmaker.com>
2) <https://www.marksimonson.com/fonts/view/anonymous>
3) <https://www.latofonts.com/lato-free-fonts/>
--
“When you feel there is an unfair burdon on your shoulders
well – that's just the way it is sometimes” (Winston Groom/Forest Gump)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

L Thorpe wrote in comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc:

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

Lato should be okay, although I have not taken all the time
necessary to scrutinize the font thouroughly.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

The developers have an objective in mind and pursue it for as long
as it took them.

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

I have always preferred Humanist font styles like Linux Biolinum
(Humanist font face of the Linux Libertine family).
There are other fonts that resemble that one quite closely; before
the ‘€’ sign had become necessary, I had “Stardome” which – in my memory – matched the newer font completely and I do not remember its
origin. BTW. The SoftMaker GmbH >1 in
Germany proposes perfectly written fonts and there is at least one
which replaces my my favorite font perfectly. Others will do the
same and I do not claim that my predilection in fonts should be
imitated by anybody!

I have less use for the serif version of the Linux Libertine family,
although it is probably great on printed media. Anyway, Biolinum
(and similar fonts) have the advantage to be usable on paper *and*
on screen, without hurting my eye.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

In a text-editor, like vim or others that do not have nifty styling
features, I use Anonymous Pro by Mark
Simonson >2.

Anywhere else it is Linux Biolinum.

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

No. I have in the past eliminated fonts that I would need later for
special purposes. Rather move them away from the
/usr/share/fonts/…/ folder that they reside in or deactivate them
if your software allows that (my text-processor does). It is too
easy to move font-files around.

Cheerio
----------------
1) <https://www.softmaker.com>
2) <https://www.marksimonson.com/fonts/anonymous>
--
“When you feel there is an unfair burdon on your shoulders
well – that's just the way it is sometimes” (Winston Groom/Forest Gump)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

L Thorpe wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I use Terminus in my terminal windows, conky, and gvim. Also in xfce, though I don't run that at the moment. I haven't yet bothered to update my favorite Fluxbox themes to use terminus.

In GUI apps I use whatever the themes support.

--
A motion to adjourn is always in order.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

Can your font handle Unicode? What follows is a test.

The only text editor I've seen that passes the two-column
combining characters section below was the Midnight Commander
internal editor.

====================================================
The ASCII compatible UTF-8 encoding used in this plain-text file
is defined in Unicode, ISO 10646-1, and RFC 2279.


Using Unicode/UTF-8, you can write in emails and source code things such as

Mathematics and sciences:

∮ E⋅da = Q, n → ∞, ∑ f(i) = ∏ g(i), ⎧⎡⎛┌─────┐⎞⎤⎫
⎪⎢⎜│a²+b³ ⎟⎥⎪
∀x∈ℝ: ⌈x⌉ = −⌊−x⌋, α ∧ ¬β = ¬(¬α ∨ β), ⎪⎢⎜│───── ⎟⎥⎪
⎪⎢⎜⎷ c₈ ⎟⎥⎪
ℕ ⊆ ℕ₀ ⊂ ℤ ⊂ ℚ ⊂ ℝ ⊂ ℂ, ⎨⎢⎜ ⎟⎥⎬
⎪⎢⎜ ∞ ⎟⎥⎪
⊥ < a ≠ b ≡ c ≤ d ≪ ⊤ ⇒ (⟦A⟧ ⇔ ⟪B⟫), ⎪⎢⎜ ⎲ ⎟⎥⎪
⎪⎢⎜ ⎳aⁱ-bⁱ⎟⎥⎪
2H₂ + O₂ ⇌ 2H₂O, R = 4.7 kΩ, ⌀ 200 mm ⎩⎣⎝i=1 ⎠⎦⎭

Linguistics and dictionaries:

ði ıntəˈnæʃənəl fəˈnɛtık əsoʊsiˈeıʃn
Y [ˈʏpsilɔn], Yen [jɛn], Yoga [ˈjoːgɑ]

APL:

((V⍳V)=⍳⍴V)/V←,V ⌷←⍳→⍴∆∇⊃‾⍎⍕⌈

Nicer typography in plain text files:

╔══════════════════════════════════════════╗
║ ║
║ • ‘single’ and “double” quotes ║
║ ║
║ • Curly apostrophes: “We’ve been here” ║
║ ║
║ • Latin-1 apostrophe and accents: '´` ║
║ ║
║ • ‚deutsche‘ „Anführungszeichen“ ║
║ ║
║ • †, ‡, ‰, •, 3–4, —, −5/+5, ™, … ║
║ ║
║ • ASCII safety test: 1lI|, 0OD, 8B ║
║ ╭─────────╮ ║
║ • the euro symbol: │ 14.95 € │ ║
║ ╰─────────╯ ║
╚══════════════════════════════════════════╝

Combining characters:

STARGΛ̊TE SG-1, a = v̇ = r̈, a⃑ ⊥ b⃑

Greek (in Polytonic):

The Greek anthem:

Σὲ γνωρίζω ἀπὸ τὴν κόψη
τοῦ σπαθιοῦ τὴν τρομερή,
σὲ γνωρίζω ἀπὸ τὴν ὄψη
ποὺ μὲ βία μετράει τὴ γῆ.

᾿Απ᾿ τὰ κόκκαλα βγαλμένη
τῶν ῾Ελλήνων τὰ ἱερά
καὶ σὰν πρῶτα ἀνδρειωμένη
χαῖρε, ὦ χαῖρε, ᾿Ελευθεριά!

From a speech of Demosthenes in the 4th century BC:

Οὐχὶ ταὐτὰ παρίσταταί μοι γιγνώσκειν, ὦ ἄνδρες ᾿Αθηναῖοι,
ὅταν τ᾿ εἰς τὰ πράγματα ἀποβλέψω καὶ ὅταν πρὸς τοὺς
λόγους οὓς ἀκούω· τοὺς μὲν γὰρ λόγους περὶ τοῦ
τιμωρήσασθαι Φίλιππον ὁρῶ γιγνομένους, τὰ δὲ πράγματ᾿
εἰς τοῦτο προήκοντα, ὥσθ᾿ ὅπως μὴ πεισόμεθ᾿ αὐτοὶ
πρότερον κακῶς σκέψασθαι δέον. οὐδέν οὖν ἄλλο μοι δοκοῦσιν
οἱ τὰ τοιαῦτα λέγοντες ἢ τὴν ὑπόθεσιν, περὶ ἧς βουλεύεσθαι,
οὐχὶ τὴν οὖσαν παριστάντες ὑμῖν ἁμαρτάνειν. ἐγὼ δέ, ὅτι μέν
ποτ᾿ ἐξῆν τῇ πόλει καὶ τὰ αὑτῆς ἔχειν ἀσφαλῶς καὶ Φίλιππον
τιμωρήσασθαι, καὶ μάλ᾿ ἀκριβῶς οἶδα· ἐπ᾿ ἐμοῦ γάρ, οὐ πάλαι
γέγονεν ταῦτ᾿ ἀμφότερα· νῦν μέντοι πέπεισμαι τοῦθ᾿ ἱκανὸν
προλαβεῖν ἡμῖν εἶναι τὴν πρώτην, ὅπως τοὺς συμμάχους
σώσομεν. ἐὰν γὰρ τοῦτο βεβαίως ὑπάρξῃ, τότε καὶ περὶ τοῦ
τίνα τιμωρήσεταί τις καὶ ὃν τρόπον ἐξέσται σκοπεῖν· πρὶν δὲ
τὴν ἀρχὴν ὀρθῶς ὑποθέσθαι, μάταιον ἡγοῦμαι περὶ τῆς
τελευτῆς ὁντινοῦν ποιεῖσθαι λόγον.

Δημοσθένους, Γ´ ᾿Ολυνθιακὸς

Georgian:

From a Unicode conference invitation:

გთხოვთ ახლავე გაიაროთ რეგისტრაცია Unicode-ის მეათე საერთაშორისო
კონფერენციაზე დასასწრებად, რომელიც გაიმართება 10-12 მარტს,
ქ. მაინცში, გერმანიაში. კონფერენცია შეჰკრებს ერთად მსოფლიოს
ექსპერტებს ისეთ დარგებში როგორიცაა ინტერნეტი და Unicode-ი,
ინტერნაციონალიზაცია და ლოკალიზაცია, Unicode-ის გამოყენება
ოპერაციულ სისტემებსა, და გამოყენებით პროგრამებში, შრიფტებში,
ტექსტების დამუშავებასა და მრავალენოვან კომპიუტერულ სისტემებში.

Russian:

From a Unicode conference invitation:

Зарегистрируйтесь сейчас на Десятую Международную Конференцию по
Unicode, которая состоится 10-12 марта 1997 года в Майнце в Германии.
Конференция соберет широкий круг экспертов по вопросам глобального
Интернета и Unicode, локализации и интернационализации, воплощению и
применению Unicode в различных операционных системах и программных
приложениях, шрифтах, верстке и многоязычных компьютерных системах.

Thai (UCS Level 2):

Excerpt from a poetry on The Romance of The Three Kingdoms (a Chinese
classic 'San Gua'):

[----------------------------|------------------------]
๏ แผ่นดินฮั่นเสื่อมโทรมแสนสังเวช พระปกเกศกองบู๊กู้ขึ้นใหม่
สิบสองกษัตริย์ก่อนหน้าแลถัดไป สององค์ไซร้โง่เขลาเบาปัญญา
ทรงนับถือขันทีเป็นที่พึ่ง บ้านเมืองจึงวิปริตเป็นนักหนา
โฮจิ๋นเรียกทัพทั่วหัวเมืองมา หมายจะฆ่ามดชั่วตัวสำคัญ
เหมือนขับไสไล่เสือจากเคหา รับหมาป่าเข้ามาเลยอาสัญ
ฝ่ายอ้องอุ้นยุแยกให้แตกกัน ใช้สาวนั้นเป็นชนวนชื่นชวนใจ
พลันลิฉุยกุยกีกลับก่อเหตุ ช่างอาเพศจริงหนาฟ้าร้องไห้
ต้องรบราฆ่าฟันจนบรรลัย ฤๅหาใครค้ำชูกู้บรรลังก์ ฯ

(The above is a two-column text. If combining characters are handled
correctly, the lines of the second column should be aligned with the
| character above.)

Ethiopian:

Proverbs in the Amharic language:

ሰማይ አይታረስ ንጉሥ አይከሰስ።
ብላ ካለኝ እንደአባቴ በቆመጠኝ።
ጌጥ ያለቤቱ ቁምጥና ነው።
ደሀ በሕልሙ ቅቤ ባይጠጣ ንጣት በገደለው።
የአፍ ወለምታ በቅቤ አይታሽም።
አይጥ በበላ ዳዋ ተመታ።
ሲተረጉሙ ይደረግሙ።
ቀስ በቀስ፥ ዕንቁላል በእግሩ ይሄዳል።
ድር ቢያብር አንበሳ ያስር።
ሰው እንደቤቱ እንጅ እንደ ጉረቤቱ አይተዳደርም።
እግዜር የከፈተውን ጉሮሮ ሳይዘጋው አይድርም።
የጎረቤት ሌባ፥ ቢያዩት ይስቅ ባያዩት ያጠልቅ።
ሥራ ከመፍታት ልጄን ላፋታት።
ዓባይ ማደሪያ የለው፥ ግንድ ይዞ ይዞራል።
የእስላም አገሩ መካ የአሞራ አገሩ ዋርካ።
ተንጋሎ ቢተፉ ተመልሶ ባፉ።
ወዳጅህ ማር ቢሆን ጨርስህ አትላሰው።
እግርህን በፍራሽህ ልክ ዘርጋ።

Runes:

ᚻᛖ ᚳᚹᚫᚦ ᚦᚫᛏ ᚻᛖ ᛒᚢᛞᛖ ᚩᚾ ᚦᚫᛗ ᛚᚪᚾᛞᛖ ᚾᚩᚱᚦᚹᛖᚪᚱᛞᚢᛗ ᚹᛁᚦ ᚦᚪ ᚹᛖᛥᚫ

(Old English, which transcribed into Latin reads 'He cwaeth that he
bude thaem lande northweardum with tha Westsae.' and means 'He said
that he lived in the northern land near the Western Sea.')

Braille:

⡌⠁⠧⠑ ⠼⠁⠒ ⡍⠜⠇⠑⠹⠰⠎ ⡣⠕⠌

⡍⠜⠇⠑⠹ ⠺⠁⠎ ⠙⠑⠁⠙⠒ ⠞⠕ ⠃⠑⠛⠔ ⠺⠊⠹⠲ ⡹⠻⠑ ⠊⠎ ⠝⠕ ⠙⠳⠃⠞
⠱⠁⠞⠑⠧⠻ ⠁⠃⠳⠞ ⠹⠁⠞⠲ ⡹⠑ ⠗⠑⠛⠊⠌⠻ ⠕⠋ ⠙⠊⠎ ⠃⠥⠗⠊⠁⠇ ⠺⠁⠎
⠎⠊⠛⠝⠫ ⠃⠹ ⠹⠑ ⠊⠇⠻⠛⠹⠍⠁⠝⠂ ⠹⠑ ⠊⠇⠻⠅⠂ ⠹⠑ ⠥⠝⠙⠻⠞⠁⠅⠻⠂
⠁⠝⠙ ⠹⠑ ⠡⠊⠑⠋ ⠍⠳⠗⠝⠻⠲ ⡎⠊⠗⠕⠕⠛⠑ ⠎⠊⠛⠝⠫ ⠊⠞⠲ ⡁⠝⠙
⡎⠊⠗⠕⠕⠛⠑⠰⠎ ⠝⠁⠍⠑ ⠺⠁⠎ ⠛⠕⠕⠙ ⠥⠏⠕⠝ ⠰⡡⠁⠝⠛⠑⠂ ⠋⠕⠗ ⠁⠝⠹⠹⠔⠛ ⠙⠑
⠡⠕⠎⠑ ⠞⠕ ⠏⠥⠞ ⠙⠊⠎ ⠙⠁⠝⠙ ⠞⠕⠲

⡕⠇⠙ ⡍⠜⠇⠑⠹ ⠺⠁⠎ ⠁⠎ ⠙⠑⠁⠙ ⠁⠎ ⠁ ⠙⠕⠕⠗⠤⠝⠁⠊⠇⠲

⡍⠔⠙⠖ ⡊ ⠙⠕⠝⠰⠞ ⠍⠑⠁⠝ ⠞⠕ ⠎⠁⠹ ⠹⠁⠞ ⡊ ⠅⠝⠪⠂ ⠕⠋ ⠍⠹
⠪⠝ ⠅⠝⠪⠇⠫⠛⠑⠂ ⠱⠁⠞ ⠹⠻⠑ ⠊⠎ ⠏⠜⠞⠊⠊⠥⠇⠜⠇⠹ ⠙⠑⠁⠙ ⠁⠃⠳⠞
⠁ ⠙⠕⠕⠗⠤⠝⠁⠊⠇⠲ ⡊ ⠍⠊⠣⠞ ⠙⠁⠧⠑ ⠃⠑⠲ ⠔⠊⠇⠔⠫⠂ ⠍⠹⠎⠑⠇⠋⠂ ⠞⠕
⠗⠑⠛⠜⠙ ⠁ ⠊⠕⠋⠋⠔⠤⠝⠁⠊⠇ ⠁⠎ ⠹⠑ ⠙⠑⠁⠙⠑⠌ ⠏⠊⠑⠊⠑ ⠕⠋ ⠊⠗⠕⠝⠍⠕⠝⠛⠻⠹
⠔ ⠹⠑ ⠞⠗⠁⠙⠑⠲ ⡃⠥⠞ ⠹⠑ ⠺⠊⠎⠙⠕⠍ ⠕⠋ ⠳⠗ ⠁⠝⠊⠑⠌⠕⠗⠎
⠊⠎ ⠔ ⠹⠑ ⠎⠊⠍⠊⠇⠑⠆ ⠁⠝⠙ ⠍⠹ ⠥⠝⠙⠁⠇⠇⠪⠫ ⠙⠁⠝⠙⠎
⠩⠁⠇⠇ ⠝⠕⠞ ⠙⠊⠌⠥⠗⠃ ⠊⠞⠂ ⠕⠗ ⠹⠑ ⡊⠳⠝⠞⠗⠹⠰⠎ ⠙⠕⠝⠑ ⠋⠕⠗⠲ ⡹⠳
⠺⠊⠇⠇ ⠹⠻⠑⠋⠕⠗⠑ ⠏⠻⠍⠊⠞ ⠍⠑ ⠞⠕ ⠗⠑⠏⠑⠁⠞⠂ ⠑⠍⠏⠙⠁⠞⠊⠊⠁⠇⠇⠹⠂ ⠹⠁⠞
⡍⠜⠇⠑⠹ ⠺⠁⠎ ⠁⠎ ⠙⠑⠁⠙ ⠁⠎ ⠁ ⠙⠕⠕⠗⠤⠝⠁⠊⠇⠲

(The first couple of paragraphs of "A Christmas Carol" by Dickens)

Compact font selection example text:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ /0123456789
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz £©µÀÆÖÞßéöÿ
–—‘“”„†•…‰™œŠŸž€ ΑΒΓΔΩαβγδω АБВГДабвгд
∀∂∈ℝ∧∪≡∞ ↑↗↨↻⇣ ┐┼╔╘░►☺♀ fi�⑀₂ἠḂӥẄɐː⍎אԱა

Greetings in various languages:

Hello world, Καλημέρα κόσμε, コンニチハ

Box drawing alignment tests: █
▉
╔══╦══╗ ┌──┬──┐ ╭──┬──╮ ╭──┬──╮ ┏━━┳━━┓ ┎┒┏┑ ╷ ╻ ┏┯┓ ┌┰┐ ▊ ╱╲╱╲╳╳╳
║┌─╨─┐║ │╔═╧═╗│ │╒═╪═╕│ │╓─╁─╖│ ┃┌─╂─┐┃ ┗╃╄┙ ╶┼╴╺╋╸┠┼┨ ┝╋┥ ▋ ╲╱╲╱╳╳╳
║│╲ ╱│║ │║ ║│ ││ │ ││ │║ ┃ ║│ ┃│ ╿ │┃ ┍╅╆┓ ╵ ╹ ┗┷┛ └┸┘ ▌ ╱╲╱╲╳╳╳
╠╡ ╳ ╞╣ ├╢ ╟┤ ├┼─┼─┼┤ ├╫─╂─╫┤ ┣┿╾┼╼┿┫ ┕┛┖┚ ┌┄┄┐ ╎ ┏┅┅┓ ┋ ▍ ╲╱╲╱╳╳╳
║│╱ ╲│║ │║ ║│ ││ │ ││ │║ ┃ ║│ ┃│ ╽ │┃ ░░▒▒▓▓██ ┊ ┆ ╎ ╏ ┇ ┋ ▎
║└─╥─┘║ │╚═╤═╝│ │╘═╪═╛│ │╙─╀─╜│ ┃└─╂─┘┃ ░░▒▒▓▓██ ┊ ┆ ╎ ╏ ┇ ┋ ▏
╚══╩══╝ └──┴──┘ ╰──┴──╯ ╰──┴──╯ ┗━━┻━━┛ ▗▄▖▛▀▜ └╌╌┘ ╎ ┗╍╍┛ ┋ ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█
▝▀▘▙▄▟





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

Farley Flud wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

Can your font handle Unicode? What follows is a test.

The only text editor I've seen that passes the two-column
combining characters section below was the Midnight Commander
internal editor.

<snip>

Terminus handles all the above including this:

[----------------------------|------------------------]
๏ แผ่นดินฮั่นเสื่อมโทรมแสนสังเวช พระปกเกศกองบู๊กู้ขึ้นใหม่
สิบสองกษัตริย์ก่อนหน้าแลถัดไป สององค์ไซร้โง่เขลาเบาปัญญา
ทรงนับถือขันทีเป็นที่พึ่ง บ้านเมืองจึงวิปริตเป็นนักหนา
โฮจิ๋นเรียกทัพทั่วหัวเมืองมา หมายจะฆ่ามดชั่วตัวสำคัญ
เหมือนขับไสไล่เสือจากเคหา รับหมาป่าเข้ามาเลยอาสัญ
ฝ่ายอ้องอุ้นยุแยกให้แตกกัน ใช้สาวนั้นเป็นชนวนชื่นชวนใจ
พลันลิฉุยกุยกีกลับก่อเหตุ ช่างอาเพศจริงหนาฟ้าร้องไห้
ต้องรบราฆ่าฟันจนบรรลัย ฤๅหาใครค้ำชูกู้บรรลังก์ ฯ

(The above is a two-column text. If combining characters are handled
correctly, the lines of the second column should be aligned with the
| character above.)

Ethiopian:

Proverbs in the Amharic language:

I don't have that font installed.

Runes:

I don't have that font installed.

All the rest look fine, including the drawings.

Many people think engineers are pricks:

--
There *__is* no such thing as a civil engineer.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 08:57:28 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Terminus handles all the above including this:

[----------------------------|------------------------]
๏ แผ่นดินฮั่นเสื่อมโทรมแสนสังเวช พระปกเกศกองบู๊กู้ขึ้นใหม่
สิบสองกษัตริย์ก่อนหน้าแลถัดไป สององค์ไซร้โง่เขลาเบาปัญญา
ทรงนับถือขันทีเป็นที่พึ่ง บ้านเมืองจึงวิปริตเป็นนักหนา
โฮจิ๋นเรียกทัพทั่วหัวเมืองมา หมายจะฆ่ามดชั่วตัวสำคัญ
เหมือนขับไสไล่เสือจากเคหา รับหมาป่าเข้ามาเลยอาสัญ
ฝ่ายอ้องอุ้นยุแยกให้แตกกัน ใช้สาวนั้นเป็นชนวนชื่นชวนใจ
พลันลิฉุยกุยกีกลับก่อเหตุ ช่างอาเพศจริงหนาฟ้าร้องไห้
ต้องรบราฆ่าฟันจนบรรลัย ฤๅหาใครค้ำชูกู้บรรลังก์ ฯ

I don't know.

Terminus is a "funny" font. It is distributed both as the
traditional X PCF (Portable Compiled Format) and as the
OTB (Open Type Bitmap).

In any case it is not TTF (True Type Font) or OTF (Open
Type Font). It is an X bitmap font.

I cannot open the OTB font in the uxterm (xterm unicode)
terminal but I can open the PCF font.

What I get in displaying the Unicode test file is this:

https://i.postimg.cc/9FCsGd5Y/terminus1.png

The formatting is correct but the actual Unicode chars are
absent.

It should look like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/9f6nzTYT/terminus2.png

Thus, unless I am doing something wrong, the Terminus font
seems quite substandard.





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 08:33:09 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtgau8$2soia$1@dont-email.me>:

L Thorpe wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font that I
continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual terminals is
the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font seems quite
ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is not the main
point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so far ahead,
aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none that appeal to
me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite fonts for
general application use, especially in word processors or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts except for
Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I use Terminus in my terminal windows, conky, and gvim. Also in xfce,
though I don't run that at the moment. I haven't yet bothered to update
my favorite Fluxbox themes to use terminus.

In GUI apps I use whatever the themes support.

I was already using Liberation Sans Mono in my terminal windows,
but in Pan, I was using Noto Sans Regular/Mono.

On a whim, I changed Pan to use Liberation. The text looks more "stark",
but I've noticed URLs are now underlined. However, misspellings are no
longer underlined with squiggly red, they are just underlined in red
with straight underlines. Interesting.

I saw the other post about Biolinum and looked into it. It's very
organic, and maybe a bit "far-out", but I might give it a shot
sometime soon. Wouldn't hurt to jazz up the newsreader.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"If at first you don't succeed, then Sky Diving is not for you!"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 13 Apr 2025 16:32:13 GMT, vallor wrote:

I saw the other post about Biolinum and looked into it. It's very
organic, and maybe a bit "far-out", but I might give it a shot
sometime soon. Wouldn't hurt to jazz up the newsreader.

The Biolinum font is part of the Libertine font package and it
seems to have been superseded by the Libertinus fonts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertinus

IMO, Libertinus does not look that good. For text editors
a monospaced font is always recommended and Libertinus Mono
is, IMO, not very attractive.




--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 08:57:28 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtgcbp$2soia$2@dont-email.me>:

Farley Flud wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

Can your font handle Unicode? What follows is a test.

The only text editor I've seen that passes the two-column combining
characters section below was the Midnight Commander internal editor.

The test looks fine in Pan, as well as both less(1) and joe(1) on xfce4-terminal(1).

Then I tried it with view(1) and vi(1), and it worked there, too.

Then I tried it in emacs(1), and that had problems.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"I'm not tense, just terribly A*L*E*R*T!!"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 17:21:58 +0000, Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote in <pan$bfcdb$743d12af$28f7e51a$c272c6f@linux.rocks>:

On 13 Apr 2025 16:32:13 GMT, vallor wrote:

I saw the other post about Biolinum and looked into it. It's very
organic, and maybe a bit "far-out", but I might give it a shot sometime
soon. Wouldn't hurt to jazz up the newsreader.

The Biolinum font is part of the Libertine font package and it seems to
have been superseded by the Libertinus fonts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertinus

IMO, Libertinus does not look that good. For text editors a monospaced
font is always recommended and Libertinus Mono is, IMO, not very
attractive.

Libertinus Sans (but not mono) looks good in Pan, so I've set that. Set
the mono font to Liberation mono, which is also what the post editor uses.

I wondered if the Linux Biolinum (mono) font looked better than the
Libertinus mono, so tried it -- didn't like the look of it. One
thing that stood out is how far to the left the "l"s (ells) were...
kerned? (I don't know the proper font term, but they seemed to be
offset to the left in their character slots.)

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"If little else, the brain is an educational toy."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 07:04:25 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

On 2025-04-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 03:25:27 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

When I use Emacs I use Courier Screenplay, but I only use Emacs with
the Fountain-Mode plugin (which is used for screenplay formatting).

The question is of such burning importance to me I have no idea what
font I'm using in the various apps. One that I can read obviously. I'm
amused in the colophon of some books where they explain the font they
selected at length. As long as it isn't Fraktur I'm good.

I like a fixed width font when typing out a paper or a story. I guess
old habits die out hard.

Most of the editors I use only say 'Monospace' although VS Code is more specific with 'Droid Sans Mono'. Konsole on Fedora says 'Noto sans Mono' although Konsole on Ubuntu only says 'Monospace'. Terminal says 'Ubuntu
Mono' but I don't use it so Konsole may be Ubuntu Mono too.

I remember setting Lucinda in .gvimrc at one time but I haven't bothered lately.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> wrote at 18:31 this Saturday (GMT):

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I use a bunch of fonts from https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/ and
also "pokemon emerald pro"
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/04/2025 19:31, L Thorpe wrote:

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I have to agree. Between Liberation serif and Arial that's all I mostly
need.

Although my internal web sites use 'digital' for effect

https://all-free-download.com/font/download/ds_digital_6896607.html

--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On 13 Apr 2025 18:56:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Most of the editors I use only say 'Monospace'

A text editor, and that includes email and Usenet editors,
should always use a monospaced font. Otherwise such things
as ASCII art and even line breaks will be distorted.

A word processor, OTOH, is the place for more flowery fonts.



--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

candycanearter07 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> wrote at 18:31 this Saturday (GMT):

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is
not the main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none
that appeal to me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite
fonts for general application use, especially in word processors
or text editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I use a bunch of fonts from https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/ and
also "pokemon emerald pro"

Heh, I've installed the Atari ST font from time to time; now I see
the fonts-atarist package in Debian Sid.

Here's a quick example on my computer:

https://imgur.com/a/oJ0prmr

Just a little bit of nostalgia... the Atari ST gave me many happy hours of fun.

--
Grig (the navigator):
... so you see, it's just the two of us against the entire space
armada.
Alex (the gunner):
What?!?
Grig: I've always wanted to fight a desperate battle against
overwhelming odds.
Alex: It'll be a slaughter!
Grig: That's the spirit!
-- The Last Starfighter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

Farley Flud wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 08:57:28 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Terminus handles all the above including this:

<snip>

I don't know.

Terminus is a "funny" font. It is distributed both as the
traditional X PCF (Portable Compiled Format) and as the
OTB (Open Type Bitmap).

In any case it is not TTF (True Type Font) or OTF (Open
Type Font). It is an X bitmap font.

There is a Terminus TTF font, as well. There's 5 different terminus
font packages in Debian Sid. I just installed them all, and see
this:

$ find /usr/share/fonts/ -iname "*terminus*" /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-normal.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold-oblique.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-oblique.otb

Not sure which package installed the TTF version (the otb was the
only one installed until now).

Here: https://files.ax86.net/terminus-ttf/

I cannot open the OTB font in the uxterm (xterm unicode)
terminal but I can open the PCF font.

What I get in displaying the Unicode test file is this:

https://i.postimg.cc/9FCsGd5Y/terminus1.png

The formatting is correct but the actual Unicode chars are
absent.

It should look like this:

https://i.postimg.cc/9f6nzTYT/terminus2.png

Thus, unless I am doing something wrong, the Terminus font
seems quite substandard.

Fits my needs.

--
We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control.
-- Pink Floyd

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 08:31:09 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtiv6e$175nh$3@dont-email.me>:

candycanearter07 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> wrote at 18:31 this Saturday (GMT):

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font that I
continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual terminals is
the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font seems
quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

Liberation also has extensive Unicode coverage but that is not the
main point of concern.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so far ahead,
aesthetically speaking?

Surely there are other candidates but I have found none that appeal to
me so greatly as does Liberation.

What are the experiences of others? What are YOUR favorite fonts for
general application use, especially in word processors or text
editors?

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts except for
Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I use a bunch of fonts from https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/ and
also "pokemon emerald pro"

Heh, I've installed the Atari ST font from time to time; now I see the fonts-atarist package in Debian Sid.

Here's a quick example on my computer:

https://imgur.com/a/oJ0prmr

Just a little bit of nostalgia... the Atari ST gave me many happy hours
of fun.

This one, as well as Terminus, are too jaggy for my taste.

Here is Liberation:

https://imgur.com/zXHPOOe

And here is one with the body in Libertinus Sans Regular:

https://imgur.com/8ZoMStp

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Using yesterday's technology to solve today's problems, tomorrow"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 08:19:05 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtiufq$175nh$2@dont-email.me>:

Farley Flud wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 08:57:28 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Terminus handles all the above including this:

<snip>

I don't know.

Terminus is a "funny" font. It is distributed both as the traditional
X PCF (Portable Compiled Format) and as the OTB (Open Type Bitmap).

In any case it is not TTF (True Type Font) or OTF (Open Type Font). It
is an X bitmap font.

There is a Terminus TTF font, as well. There's 5 different terminus font packages in Debian Sid. I just installed them all, and see this:

$ find /usr/share/fonts/ -iname "*terminus*" /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-normal.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold-oblique.otb /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-oblique.otb

Not sure which package installed the TTF version (the otb was the only
one installed until now).

apt-file(1) is your friend. :)

$ apt-file search /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf fonts-terminus: /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf

$ apt-file search /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold.otb fonts-terminus-otb: /usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold.otb

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.14.2 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
"Never hit a man with glasses. Use your fist!"

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vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 08:31:09 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtiv6e$175nh$3@dont-email.me>:

<snip>

Heh, I've installed the Atari ST font from time to time; now I see the
fonts-atarist package in Debian Sid.

Here's a quick example on my computer:

https://imgur.com/a/oJ0prmr

Just a little bit of nostalgia... the Atari ST gave me many happy hours
of fun.

This one, as well as Terminus, are too jaggy for my taste.

Here is Liberation:

https://imgur.com/zXHPOOe

Too fuzzy for my eyeballs.

And here is one with the body in Libertinus Sans Regular:

https://imgur.com/8ZoMStp

Owwww. It hurts! :-)

Here's terminus (not the TTF version). Note that the imgur post is fuzzier
than reality, something that affected your posts above.

https://imgur.com/a/OetyNLs

--
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward,
then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-- Albert Einstein

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vallor wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 08:19:05 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote in <vtiufq$175nh$2@dont-email.me>:

$ find /usr/share/fonts/ -iname "*terminus*"
/usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus
/usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus
/usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold.otb
/usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-normal.otb
/usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-bold-oblique.otb
/usr/share/fonts/opentype/terminus/terminus-oblique.otb

Not sure which package installed the TTF version (the otb was the only
one installed until now).

apt-file(1) is your friend. :)

$ apt-file search /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf fonts-terminus: /usr/share/fonts/truetype/terminus/TerminusTTF-4.46.0.ttf

Now why didn't I think of that? DON'T ANSWER THAT! :-D

--
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite
of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
-- Niels Bohr

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On 14/04/2025 17:28, John Ames wrote:

tend to content
themselves with*merely* being a functional alternative, and never
strive for anything greater. Call it the "government cheese" effect.

LOL!

ITYM 'American cheese'

As fake as Trumps suntan.

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

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On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 07:57:42 -0700, John Ames wrote:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 11:37:11 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

ITYM 'American cheese'

As fake as Trumps suntan.

Now that's hardly fair; processed cheese actually involved the real
thing at some point ;P

I think Velveeta has evolved to the point where real cheese isn't involved
and they can't call it a processed cheese product.

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On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 09:28:49 -0700, John Ames wrote:

Honestly, Liberation is...a little on the ugly side. Perfectly
functional, but not beautiful or even particularly pleasant to look at.

I suppose that it is all in the eye of the beholder.

But LibreOffice has chosen Liberation as the default font
and it can't be just for the Unicode coverage.

Nimbus Mono is my preference for terminals/text editors.

Although perhaps moot, the Nimbus fonts, being part of the ghostscript
URW collection, AFAIK do not support Unicode. although they do support
most European languages.

As far as print fonts go ...

Print? Does anyone still print?





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 11:03:10 -0700, John Ames wrote:

On 15 Apr 2025 17:40:09 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Now that's hardly fair; processed cheese actually involved the real
thing at some point ;P

I think Velveeta has evolved to the point where real cheese isn't
involved and they can't call it a processed cheese product.

Seems distinctly possible XD There *are* better "American cheese"
options out there, but I'll take cheddar on a burger anyday - or better
yet, mushroom & Swiss.

That can be disappointing depending on the cheddar. Tillamook cheddar
melts nicely but some of the cheddars I get like KerryGold don't melt
well. Getting something that melts uniformly is what started the processed cheese thing.

One thing I miss about New England is the 'rattrap' cheese that the
country stores would whittle off a round. What is advertised as super
duper extra sharp by the national brands doesn't even come close.

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rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 11:03:10 -0700, John Ames wrote:

On 15 Apr 2025 17:40:09 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

Now that's hardly fair; processed cheese actually involved the real
thing at some point ;P

I think Velveeta has evolved to the point where real cheese isn't
involved and they can't call it a processed cheese product.

Seems distinctly possible XD There *are* better "American cheese"
options out there, but I'll take cheddar on a burger anyday - or better
yet, mushroom & Swiss.

That can be disappointing depending on the cheddar. Tillamook cheddar
melts nicely but some of the cheddars I get like KerryGold don't melt
well. Getting something that melts uniformly is what started the processed cheese thing.

One thing I miss about New England is the 'rattrap' cheese that the
country stores would whittle off a round. What is advertised as super
duper extra sharp by the national brands doesn't even come close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1JWzyvv8A

Monty Python "Cheese Shop"

I feel esurient now!

--
We Klingons believe as you do -- the sick should die. Only the strong
should live.
-- Kras, "Friday's Child", stardate 3497.2

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John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote at 19:33 this Tuesday (GMT):

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 19:01:47 +0000
Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

I suppose that it is all in the eye of the beholder.

But LibreOffice has chosen Liberation as the default font
and it can't be just for the Unicode coverage.

They're free to do as they like - and again, it's certainly a
functional good-enough; I just wouldn't classify it as particularly
nice on an aesthetic level, is all.

Neither is Times New Roman, or Arial. It gets the job done, and looks
clean enough.

Although perhaps moot, the Nimbus fonts, being part of the ghostscript
URW collection, AFAIK do not support Unicode. although they do support
most European languages.

Haven't checked it for full Unicode coverage; fortunately, I don't need
more than extended Latin in my day-to-day, which it handles just fine.

I'd imagine so, if it's the default. LO does have a tool to insert
Unicode, so it would be awkward if it looked off with the default.

Print? Does anyone still print?

Well, if I ever get around to finishing the typesetting for my novel...

Do you mean printing documents from a standard printer?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote at 15:06 this Wednesday (GMT):

On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 14:00:05 -0000 (UTC)
candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:

Neither is Times New Roman, or Arial. It gets the job done, and looks
clean enough.

True enough - never liked those, either. I'd actually put the FOSS Alternatives (TM) over both, in a head-to-head; it just doesn't make Liberation *aesthetically pleasing,* is all.

Again, theyre Just Fine.

Print? Does anyone still print?

Well, if I ever get around to finishing the typesetting for my
novel...

Do you mean printing documents from a standard printer?

Well, more "intended to end up on paper at some point" than "I actually currently own and use a printer" - haven't used one on the regular
since the mid-'00s. But I sure didn't write a novel to *not* hold a
print copy in my hands at some point...!

Wow, you wrote a novel? Can we see?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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Le 15-04-2025, % <pursent100@gmail.com> a écrit :

John Ames wrote:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 19:01:47 +0000
Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

this is funny

Of course, FF/DG/LP/NV/whatever is very funny.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote at 19:34 this Thursday (GMT):

On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 19:00:03 -0000 (UTC)
candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:

True enough - never liked those, either. I'd actually put the FOSS
Alternatives (TM) over both, in a head-to-head; it just doesn't make
Liberation *aesthetically pleasing,* is all.

Again, theyre Just Fine.

They're perfectly functional; I just don't find them particularly pleasant/beautiful, which was the initial point of discussion.

Fair enough, sorry.

Wow, you wrote a novel? Can we see?

It's under another 'nym on another corner of the 'Net that I try to
keep separate-ish, but if you drop me a line on my personal e-mail I
might not mind sharing ;)

maybe
--
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L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> writes:

This is not a frivolous issue.

There are many fonts available on GNU/Linux but the only font
that I continually select for all my GUI apps and even virtual
terminals is the Liberation family:

https://github.com/liberationfonts/liberation-fonts

IMO, the Liberation fonts are the best and every other font
seems quite ugly or unsatisfying in comparison.

I went to the page above with the hope of seeing an illustration of it.
One can see an example in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts

(*) Fira Code

I use Fira Code on practically anything: xterm and GNU EMACS. On the
web, I let whatever font the website chooses, but if it contains text
that I'd spend more than 20 seconds to read, then I invoke a Firefox
extension called ``print friendly'' which then formats the text with a
serif font that looks like ``Times New Roman'' with an appropriate size.
Then I print. :) So, yes, reading requires serif. For screen display,
Fira Code.

To me, this is unusual. Why should one font family be so
far ahead, aesthetically speaking?

That's a very interesting question.

By the way, Liberation does look pretty good in its serif version---if
there's any other.

I am tempted to exclude all the dozens of GNU/Linux fonts
except for Liberation. Do you feel the same?

I feel the same. Most fonts are just terrible. For manipulating text
on the screen, we need a monospaced font, so, if that's not Liberation's
case, then it's out of the question.

I often render text on a PDF, in which case I seem to prefer Knuth's
font cmr---``computer modern roman''. Why can't I accept the LaTeX default---whatever it's called? That's an open question to me. It
feels to me that Knuth's designed cmr is a bit more imperfect than
LateX's default one. It even seems to me that LaTeX's default is
actually cmr, but more perfected? It seems to display a little lighter
on the screen and possibly on paper too. I don't know. Clearly, I'm no
expert at this, but I do have enough sensibility to detect what I like
and what I don't. (Most people can't seem to care.)

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Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:

[...]

Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

A bit self-disqualifying. Speaking of font, I think you should perhaps
choose a different font. For instance, I think your font should have
serif, since the page involves quite bit of reading.

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Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> writes:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 09:28:49 -0700, John Ames wrote:

[...]

As far as print fonts go ...

Print? Does anyone still print?

The web has become nearly intolerable. Even the choice of font is
horrible in nearly all websites, not to mention text size, image and
ads. It's funny how sometimes I invoke the print-friendly extension on
my browser just to read /on screen/. But the rule is to actually print
it out. And books, of course: I print out a chapter to see if I want to continue the reading and it's much lighter to carry a chapter than the
entire physical book. Electronic devices are not flexible like paper
and they reflect light in a different way and you can't write on their
margins using a device that lets you feel the friction of pencil on
paper or pen on paper. Some pens are such beautiful devices.

Anything interesting I find on the web I print for later reading. My
time on the computer is mostly spent writing. Reading is a good
opportunity to actually leave the office, the house and go somewhere
else.

Having a printer today is like being the owner of the printing press.
It's hard for me to understand when people don't take advantage of that.

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Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> writes:

On 13 Apr 2025 18:56:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:

Most of the editors I use only say 'Monospace'

A text editor, and that includes email and Usenet editors,
should always use a monospaced font. Otherwise such things
as ASCII art and even line breaks will be distorted.

More importantly, a variable-width font fails the principle of least astonishment. :) Seriously, when you press a key you should be able to
predict exactly what's gonna happen on the screen and that's much more
the case with a monospaced font than with a variable-width one.

The reason we need high-precision in predicting what's gonna happen is
so we get a sense of control while using software and the computer in
general: this sense of control is likely a major source of the pleasure
of using a computer system---though there are others.

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On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 10:56:58 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

Print? Does anyone still print?

The web has become nearly intolerable. Even the choice of font is
horrible in nearly all websites, not to mention text size, image and
ads. It's funny how sometimes I invoke the print-friendly extension on
my browser just to read /on screen/. But the rule is to actually print
it out.

Well, it depends on the web site.

A lot of sites are designed only for mobile and they are certainly
terrible. But such sites usually contain no worthwhile information

Then there are the various blogs that use standard blog templates
that are loaded with javascript. Some of these blogs are worthwhile
and can be saved in the browser using the "Save Web Page Complete"
option. This should be followed by stripping the HTML file of
all javascript and then removing all javascript and CSS files.

However, the best way to save web pages is to use either "wget" or "curl" followed, again, by stripping all the javascript an CSS files.

And books, of course: I print out a chapter to see if I want to
continue the reading and it's much lighter to carry a chapter than the
entire physical book. Electronic devices are not flexible like paper
and they reflect light in a different way and you can't write on their margins using a device that lets you feel the friction of pencil on
paper or pen on paper. Some pens are such beautiful devices.

Anything interesting I find on the web I print for later reading.

Whew! You must spend a fortune on ink or toner.

Saving web pages as described above, or printing to PDF, is the
much cheaper, and in the long term more desirable, option. The same
applies to books.

I have literally tens of thousands of web pages saved. If I were
to physically print all of those the paper alone would weigh several
tons.

It would be even worse for the digital books in my collection.
Printing even a tiny fraction of those would break the foundation
of my home.

One has to get accustomed to preserving and consuming digital data
as digital data. With competent software, annotating digital content
can be done with ease, and with far more capability than pen or pencil.
The print medium is really no longer appropriate.



--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 10:56:58 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

Print? Does anyone still print?

The web has become nearly intolerable. Even the choice of font is
horrible in nearly all websites, not to mention text size, image and
ads. It's funny how sometimes I invoke the print-friendly extension on
my browser just to read /on screen/. But the rule is to actually print
it out.

Well, it depends on the web site.

A lot of sites are designed only for mobile and they are certainly
terrible. But such sites usually contain no worthwhile information

This point is made often and I want to agree with it, but the fact
is that the websites of many ISPs are like that, so you can't
really even get on the internet anymore without some capacity for
viewing such websites (particularly annoying to people like me who
prefer lightweight web browsers which _really_ don't work with
them). Same with government websites here in Australia (I have to
enable the Referer: header to log in because the idiots depend on
that!). It's often the most essential sites that are the worst.
Sometimes I prefer to pretend I don't have internet access at all.

Then there are the various blogs that use standard blog templates
that are loaded with javascript. Some of these blogs are worthwhile
and can be saved in the browser using the "Save Web Page Complete"
option. This should be followed by stripping the HTML file of
all javascript and then removing all javascript and CSS files.

However, the best way to save web pages is to use either "wget" or "curl" followed, again, by stripping all the javascript an CSS files.

Saving web pages with images that also load locally can be tricky
with Wget. The link rewriting with -k isn't up to facing the
complicated design of some websites. HTTtrack can struggle too,
short of spending hours tweaking its configuration. I don't like
PDFs much, so the SingleFile extension for Firefox has been handy,
it can embed images in the HTML so you just have one file. But I'd
prefer a separate program so I didn't have to run Firefox, and of
course support for downloading recursively.

And books, of course: I print out a chapter to see if I want to
continue the reading and it's much lighter to carry a chapter than the
entire physical book. Electronic devices are not flexible like paper
and they reflect light in a different way and you can't write on their
margins using a device that lets you feel the friction of pencil on
paper or pen on paper. Some pens are such beautiful devices.

Anything interesting I find on the web I print for later reading.

Whew! You must spend a fortune on ink or toner.

Saving web pages as described above, or printing to PDF, is the
much cheaper, and in the long term more desirable, option. The same
applies to books.

Nah, I prefer long content printed out too. I mainly use waste
paper that's printed on one side, and old toner carts that are
too faint for important use, but still readable for text. The one
problem is that, even when I take the time to check before
printing, I still miss scrap pages that are the wrong way round
and get things printed over the top of the old text. That's damn
frustrating.

Paper costs about tripled recently in Australia when local
manufacturing wound back, so that has curtailed me a bit.

I have literally tens of thousands of web pages saved. If I were
to physically print all of those the paper alone would weigh several
tons.

To be honest, most often I skip things online that are too long to
read comfortably on a screen, but if it's really worthwhile I'll
print it out. I even wrote software to scrape and reformat a whole
website in part just so that I could print some sections out
properly.

It would be even worse for the digital books in my collection.
Printing even a tiny fraction of those would break the foundation
of my home.

My only intention for downloading digital books is to print them,
unless I have them purely for reference to small sections. I mostly
stick to buying physical copies anyway, usually second hand.

One has to get accustomed to preserving and consuming digital data
as digital data.

The fact that I'm talking to you here means that I've tried it, but
preferences vary.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote at 21:50 this Wednesday (GMT):

On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 10:56:58 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

Print? Does anyone still print?

The web has become nearly intolerable. Even the choice of font is
horrible in nearly all websites, not to mention text size, image and
ads. It's funny how sometimes I invoke the print-friendly extension on
my browser just to read /on screen/. But the rule is to actually print
it out.

Well, it depends on the web site.

A lot of sites are designed only for mobile and they are certainly
terrible. But such sites usually contain no worthwhile information

Then there are the various blogs that use standard blog templates
that are loaded with javascript. Some of these blogs are worthwhile
and can be saved in the browser using the "Save Web Page Complete"
option. This should be followed by stripping the HTML file of
all javascript and then removing all javascript and CSS files.

However, the best way to save web pages is to use either "wget" or "curl" followed, again, by stripping all the javascript an CSS files.

I personally at least try to make my website compatible with this, and I
agree that it is nice to be able to wget a single page cleanly. If you
need it, though, theres always the recurse and page-requisites options.

And books, of course: I print out a chapter to see if I want to
continue the reading and it's much lighter to carry a chapter than the
entire physical book. Electronic devices are not flexible like paper
and they reflect light in a different way and you can't write on their
margins using a device that lets you feel the friction of pencil on
paper or pen on paper. Some pens are such beautiful devices.

Anything interesting I find on the web I print for later reading.

Whew! You must spend a fortune on ink or toner.

Saving web pages as described above, or printing to PDF, is the
much cheaper, and in the long term more desirable, option. The same
applies to books.

I have literally tens of thousands of web pages saved. If I were
to physically print all of those the paper alone would weigh several
tons.

It would be even worse for the digital books in my collection.
Printing even a tiny fraction of those would break the foundation
of my home.

One has to get accustomed to preserving and consuming digital data
as digital data. With competent software, annotating digital content
can be done with ease, and with far more capability than pen or pencil.
The print medium is really no longer appropriate.

I haven't printed in a while.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 17:40:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

However, the best way to save web pages is to use either "wget" or "curl"
followed, again, by stripping all the javascript an CSS files.

I personally at least try to make my website compatible with this, and I agree that it is nice to be able to wget a single page cleanly. If you
need it, though, theres always the recurse and page-requisites options.

Some single pages, such as those published on *overflow, are impossible
to download cleanly with wget or anything else -- and these pages can contain very important information. Supposedly, creating an account will allow downloading but I do not ever desire to have an account with such organizations.

However, in these cases the option to "Print to PDF" can usually save the
day. But there still may be problems. Many sub-threads can be concealed (javascript again!) and these have to be manually opened before saving as a PDF.

The web is -- or at least used to be -- all about disseminating information
and who would not ever want to make a permanent local copy of such information. Yet many web sites seem to be designed without any regard for clean downloading.

University/academic web sites do actually create PDF files of their web pages to facilitate downloading but most other sites do not.

Web downloading is absolutely essential. The web site that you visit today
may be gone tomorrow. Whenever I encounter an interesting site I will
download immediately because I know that sooner or later it will disappear.
My storage media are filled with sites that used to exist but are no longer available.

I haven't printed in a while.

If necessary, just take a USB to one the local printing shops.





--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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Le 22-04-2025, Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> a écrit :

Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> writes:

[...]

Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

A bit self-disqualifying.

Not exactly. I saw so many people selling books and when someone tell
them the book is bad, they answer they are writing mostly for
themselves, so nobody has to criticize. And I hate when I see that. When someone ask me to pay to read something, I don't care about the reasons.
If someone is writing mostly for himself, great, but without sell it
asking me to read it.

So, as I'm writing for myself, I don't ask people to read me. As some
people told me they like what I write, I let it in the wild. But I'm
saying I'm writing for myself, so if someone want to read it and like
it, everything is fine. But I don't tell people to expect something
reading me.

So, it's more like a warning than a self-disqualifying claim.

Speaking of font, I think you should perhaps
choose a different font. For instance, I think your font should have
serif, since the page involves quite bit of reading.

I don't understand. For the website I don't choose any font, so the
fonts used by the web browser are the ones who are displayed. And in my
pdf, I always chose fonts with serif. So, I don't understand where I
forgot to use serif fonts.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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