At what point do we finally give up?
At what point do we finally give up?and restarting their devices.
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-warns-of-blue-screen-crashes-caused-by-april-updates/>
Microsoft warned customers this week that their systems might crash with a blue screen error caused by a secure kernel fatal error after installing Windows updates released since March.
According to advisory updates for the KB5055523 April cumulative update and the KB5053656 March preview update, this known issue affects devices running Windows 11, version 24H2. Those affected will see their PCs crash after installing these updates
"After installing this update and restarting your device, you might encounter a blue screen exception with error code 0x18B indicating a SECURE_KERNEL_ERROR," Microsoft said.ensures the fix is applied faster.
Until a fix is rolled out through Windows Update, Microsoft resolved this issue via Known Issue Rollback (KIR), a feature that reverses buggy non-security updates delivered via Windows Update.
This fix will propagate automatically to all home, non-managed enterprise devices, and business devices not managed by IT departments over the next 24 hours. To expedite the rollout, Microsoft advises affected users to restart their devices, which
After installation, you can find the Group Policy under Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates. To deploy it on affected endpoints, you must go to the Local Computer Policy or the Domain policy on the domain controller using the Group PolicyEditor to choose the Windows version you want to target.
"You will need to install and configure the Group Policy for your version of Windows to resolve this issue. You will also need to restart your device(s) to apply the group policy setting," Microsoft added.restarts, causing services and apps to fail.
Windows admins can find additional guidance on deploying KIR Group Policies on the Microsoft support website.
Earlier this week, Microsoft released emergency Windows updates to address an issue affecting local audit logon policies in Active Directory Group Policy and warned admins that Windows Server 2025 domain controllers might become inaccessible after
Today, Redmond also started deploying a fix for an issue causing some Windows devices to be offered Windows 11 upgrades despite Intune policies blocking them.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar >> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar >>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
Can confirm, at least in some cases. My wife needed a new laptop, but
she wanted Apple. They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
a web-browser. So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time. (One
of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become obsolete and could not be upgraded). I put Linux, and there was a tiny
bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
years successfully. She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's running Fedora. Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
familiarity with it. But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some desktop config.
I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
similar. It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
most.
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar >> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar >>>> marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as >>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if
it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got
him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over. >>>
Can confirm, at least in some cases. My wife needed a new laptop, but
she wanted Apple. They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
a web-browser. So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time. (One
of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become
obsolete and could not be upgraded). I put Linux, and there was a tiny
bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
years successfully. She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's
running Fedora. Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
familiarity with it. But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
desktop config.
That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
similar. It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
most.
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the computing world put together.
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
I understand.
"They'll get my xfce desktop when they pry it from my cold, deadfingers..."
Seriously though, X11 continues to be viable and works well. So far,
I haven't seen anyone articulate why Wayland would be better.
Seriously though, X11 continues to be viable and works well. So far,
I haven't seen anyone articulate why Wayland would be better.
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
I understand.
vallor wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:23:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Manmore complaints
<rotflol2@hotmail.com>
wrote in <slrn10046g5.4fb.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating
system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the >>>> computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what >>> I understand.
"They'll get my xfce desktop when they pry it from my cold, dead
fingers..."
Seriously though, X11 continues to be viable and works well. So far,
I haven't seen anyone articulate why Wayland would be better.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:35:11 +0000, vallor wrote:
Seriously though, X11 continues to be viable and works well. So far,
I haven't seen anyone articulate why Wayland would be better.
From what I have read (I don't use that Wayland junk) a major problem
is that X does not support multiple monitors with differing resolutions whereas Wayland does.
However, in X multiple monitors are handled through an extension called "Xinerama," and I wonder if Xinerama could be fixed to correct the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinerama
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
Here's one way Wayland is better: full support of touchpad gestures.
I've been using multiple monitors with differing resolutions via
Xinerama for many years. At present, though, I have two identical
monitors hooked to this mini PC.
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
I understand.
Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem completely ready to me.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
I've wanted to know how stuff works.
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any
marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are >>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of >>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the >>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous >>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use >>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as >>>>> the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if >>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much
preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got >>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced >>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over. >>>>>
Can confirm, at least in some cases. My wife needed a new laptop, but >>>> she wanted Apple. They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use >>>> a web-browser. So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one
that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time. (One >>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become >>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded). I put Linux, and there was a tiny >>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for
years successfully. She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's >>>> running Fedora. Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
familiarity with it. But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few
questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some >>>> desktop config.
That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple
laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an
Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more
than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do
at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be >>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike
most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to
Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could >>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly
similar. It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the >>>> most.
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who
were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
surveillance and the like. He wanted a distro most similar to Windows
for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
computer configured to be the same as the laptop. No issues so far.
Cinnamon is quite Windows-like. Gnome on the other hand, I think that
is more of a leap. I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
appealing.
I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what little Mac experience I have.
On 2025-04-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 05:23, Borax Man wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the >>>> computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what >>> I understand.
Only Gnome and KDE seem to fully support Wayland. For everything else,
it's experimental. That's part of why I'm not using Linux Mint at the
moment. Cinnamon isn't scheduled to use Wayland until the 23.x releases
which means that if you have a laptop and enjoy using gestures, you
won't be getting full support there.
I'm in no hurry for Wayland. If Linux Mint makes Wayland the default, I hope I'll still be able to revert to X11 with a one line change in the configuration.
On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
I've wanted to know how stuff works.
Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it functioning.
About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics Apprenticeship!!
Daniel70 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
I've wanted to know how stuff works.
Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it
functioning.
About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics
Apprenticeship!!
When I was a teen I got some Social Security money from my father's SS.
Not sure why. It was about $230.
In spite of my parents' dismay, I blew it all on a PAIA synthesizer kit
and the tools needed to assemble it. Clipping leads, soldering, learning resistor color coding, testing without an oscilloscope... I had years of
fun with that thing.
FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
from Radio Shack.
It wasn't until I bought a used
Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some useful stuff.
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?
Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
Wayland, from what I understand.
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
X11 is not going to go away with Linux Mint anytime soon.
Daniel70 wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 19/04/2025 4:07 am, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:I can recall (mid-60's, 10 years old or so) pulling apart Mum's Steam
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
That 'someone' has been me. Since I was a little kid taking stuff apart
I've wanted to know how stuff works.
Iron which had stopped working. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it
functioning.
About six years later, I joined The Army, and did an Electronics
Apprenticeship!!
When I was a teen I got some Social Security money from my father's SS.
Not sure why. It was about $230.
In spite of my parents' dismay, I blew it all on a PAIA synthesizer kit
and the tools needed to assemble it. Clipping leads, soldering, learning resistor color coding, testing without an oscilloscope... I had years of
fun with that thing.
Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
Wayland, from what I understand.
They will be updated, don’t worry.
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
Black, Black
Boys, Brown
Rape, Red
Our, Orange
Young, Yellow
Girls, Green
Blessed, Blue
Virginity, Violet
Gone, Grey
West. White
The Mnemonic we used back then might not be P.C. today but it worked then!!
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that >>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the >>>>> computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what >>>> I understand.
Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close >>> to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem >>> completely ready to me.
It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been
rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or
Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if
your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external
monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better
than X11.
Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under Wayland.
As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need
them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with
X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I wanted it.
Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters? This is something I use fairly often.
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:51, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 05:23, Borax Man wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that >>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or >>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>>>>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the >>>>>> computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what >>>>> I understand.
Only Gnome and KDE seem to fully support Wayland. For everything else, >>>> it's experimental. That's part of why I'm not using Linux Mint at the
moment. Cinnamon isn't scheduled to use Wayland until the 23.x releases >>>> which means that if you have a laptop and enjoy using gestures, you
won't be getting full support there.
I'm in no hurry for Wayland. If Linux Mint makes Wayland the default, I hope
I'll still be able to revert to X11 with a one line change in the
configuration.
X11 is not going to go away with Linux Mint anytime soon. The 23.x
release is supposed to default to Wayland as of 2026, but I don't
believe that they will ever remove support for X11.
I hope not. I'm an old enough dog that I don't want to learn new tricks.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:23:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating >>> systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that?
Of course not.
Many Desktop Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on
Wayland, from what I understand.
They will be updated, don’t worry. Wayland is just a low-level engine
for managing drawing on the screen from multiple client applications,
nothing more. It doesn’t dictate any kind of GUI style or toolkit or whatever. X11 was sort of the same, but Wayland is even more minimalist.
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
Black, Black
Boys, Brown
Rape, Red
Our, Orange
Young, Yellow
Girls, Green
Blessed, Blue
Virginity, Violet
Gone, Grey
West, White
The Mnemonic we used back then might not be P.C. today but it worked
then!!
On Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:36:23 +0100, wasbit wrote:
Much like car ownership. As long as it works there is no need to know
how. If/when it goes wrong take it to someone who does know to fix.
Would you buy a car with a sealed bonnet? Or would you buy one that can
be opened and its parts examined?
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 19:40:14 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:Girls,
[snip]
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
Black, Black Boys, Brown Rape, Red Our, Orange Young, Yellow
Green Blessed, Blue Virginity, Violet Gone, Grey West, White
The Mnemonic we used back then might not be P.C. today but it worked
then!!
The first six are the same I learned, although the last four were "But
Violet Gives Willingly".
BTW, I once saw a clock that used six full-color LEDs (not 7-segment displays) to show the time using that color code. At the time I'm
writing this, its brown-brown:black-violet:orange-white.
I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
They will be updated, don’t worry. Wayland is just a low-level engine
for managing drawing on the screen from multiple client applications,
nothing more. It doesn’t dictate any kind of GUI style or toolkit or whatever. X11 was sort of the same, but Wayland is even more minimalist.
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 07:59:10 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
In Settings/Keyboard/Special Character Entry/Compose Key you can select a
key to trigger the compose sequence. For example I have it set to right
alt.
<RightAlt>u" gives you ü, <RightAlt>"U is Ü. I'm not sure what French quotations marks are, « and » ? (<RightAlt><< and <RightAlt>>>.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GtkComposeTable
The key sequences are no worse than remembering Unicode hex and most like
€ have several variations.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
On 2025-04-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/21/25 01:00, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so >>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that >>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or >>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the >>>>>>> computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what >>>>>> I understand.
Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem
completely ready to me.
It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been
rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or >>>> Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if >>>> your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external >>>> monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better >>>> than X11.
Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really >>> "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I >>> didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under
Wayland.
As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need
them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with >>> X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external
monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it >>> built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I
wanted it.
Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters? >>> This is something I use fairly often.
I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04.
To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks
since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
I use them mostly for en and em dashes, sometimes for degrees (it's 60°F currently where I live), for the euro € or pound £, or sometimes the copyright symbol ©. The – — (the en and em dash) doesn't look different in
the terminal).
✝ Happy Easter Monday ✝
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
On 4/21/25 20:58, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
I don't care where the next Pope comes from as long as he doesn't try to change the traditional religion. It has already been weakened severely
since the early 1960s.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 19:40:14 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
Maybe it's a flash from your past... Working with microcontrollers there
is a need for external circuitry requiring resistors for pullups, biasing, and current limiting LEDs.
My eyes aren't getting any better with age but iirc it was a lot easier to read the colors on 1/4 watt resistors than the 1/8 watt metal film types where the body is light beige or blue.
On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/21/25 18:08, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/21/25 01:00, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:48, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:14:54 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so >>>>>>>>>> stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that >>>>>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or >>>>>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
On Linux, “different GUIs” is not the same as “different operating
systems”. Linux offers more variety of GUIs than all the rest of the
computing world put together.
Wont the obsolence of X11 put and end to that? Many Desktop
Environments and Window Managers won't work at all on Wayland, from what
I understand.
Hopefully X11 will be around for a couple more decades. It's getting close
to two decades since Wayland was first announced and it still doesn't seem
completely ready to me.
It's not ready in Linux Mint, but that's because Cinnamon hasn't been >>>>>> rewritten to work with it yet. If you use KDE or Gnome through Fedora or >>>>>> Ubuntu, Wayland is quite excellent. You might not notice a difference if >>>>>> your use is basic, but if you enjoy touchpad gestures, decent external >>>>>> monitor support and things like the night light, it's definitely better >>>>>> than X11.
Wayland is usable, if you don't mind adjusting to it, but it's not really >>>>> "ready." I've tried Wayland in Ubuntu. On my equipment it is not better. I
didn't know what artifacts were until I streamed video in Ubuntu under >>>>> Wayland.
As for touchpad gestures... I've already remarked on that. I don't need >>>>> them. As for external monitors, I haven't had any problem using them with >>>>> X11 under Linux Mint (on the rare occasions when I've used external
monitors). I've never used anything like Night Light, but I think I have it
built into my monitor and I'm guessing I could download something, if I >>>>> wanted it.
Out of curiosity, does Alt+Shift+U allow you to input Unicode characters? >>>>> This is something I use fairly often.
I just tried the unicode function, and it doesn't work in Ubuntu 25.04. >>>> To be honest, I didn't even know you could do such a thing. It would
have been useful whenever I wanted to enter the French quotation marks >>>> since the laptop keyboard is too small to have a key to support them.
I use them mostly for en and em dashes, sometimes for degrees (it's 60°F >>> currently where I live), for the euro € or pound £, or sometimes the
copyright symbol ©. The – — (the en and em dash) doesn't look different in
the terminal).
✝ Happy Easter Monday ✝
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic Pope >>> instead of another Woke one this time.
I'm actually sure that's the way they'll go. I think Francis was an
experiment, and they're glad to see it end.
I hope so. But I'm not as sure as you are.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 21:16:45 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 4/21/25 20:58, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
I don't care where the next Pope comes from as long as he doesn't try to
change the traditional religion. It has already been weakened severely
since the early 1960s.
The traditional religion is long gone.
https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=53822
I think a SSPV priest has a Latin Mass a couple of times a month here. I
goes deeper than the form of the Mass. It almost seems like they read Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors and tried to check them all off.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm
80. The Roman Pontiff can, and ought to, reconcile himself, and come to
terms with progress, liberalism and modern civilization.-
Eric Sammons sums it up nicely.
https://ericsammons.com/product/deadly-indifference/
On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic
Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he
couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African
pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African
bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.
I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government
will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because
of BRICS.
I'll be honest and say that I probably don't have the time to look at
all those links. My biggest gripe is how the education system here in
Quebec, which used to be separate by religion rather than language,
threw the baby out with the bathwater. If you were Catholic, there was a
time until the late 90s when you could be sure that your child at least
got the basics of his or her religion from school. Your job as a parent
was to fill the blanks or go much further should you choose to. If you weren't Catholic, your child would go to all the same classes except for Religion and go to a class called Morals instead. It worked fine, but
they decided to get rid of that in 1997 or so because, to them, religion
was outdated. The result is a generation of kids without any kind of
morality that latches onto whatever idiotic trend of the day. In many
cases, they make heroes out of drug dealers, pimps, murderers and
terrorists all the while demonizing the victims of their crimes. It's
too late to go back now, but doing so would at least create a path to enlightenment for some of these kids.
On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 08:58:27 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
I'll be honest and say that I probably don't have the time to look at
all those links. My biggest gripe is how the education system here in
Quebec, which used to be separate by religion rather than language,
threw the baby out with the bathwater. If you were Catholic, there was a
time until the late 90s when you could be sure that your child at least
got the basics of his or her religion from school. Your job as a parent
was to fill the blanks or go much further should you choose to. If you
weren't Catholic, your child would go to all the same classes except for
Religion and go to a class called Morals instead. It worked fine, but
they decided to get rid of that in 1997 or so because, to them, religion
was outdated. The result is a generation of kids without any kind of
morality that latches onto whatever idiotic trend of the day. In many
cases, they make heroes out of drug dealers, pimps, murderers and
terrorists all the while demonizing the victims of their crimes. It's
too late to go back now, but doing so would at least create a path to
enlightenment for some of these kids.
I don't believe that was ever the case in the US. When I was in grade
school Wednesday was a short day. It was a small town so the Catholic kids would line up an march west to St. Jude's school for religious instruction
by a cadre of nuns. Similarly the Protestant kids would march east to the Dutch Reformed church for their instruction. I don't know what the Protestants of other denominations, if any, did. I think the Reformed
classes were generic.
The same was done in high school but I opted out early some my memory is
less clear.
Of course the Catholic parents could choose to send their kids to St.
Jude's school and later to Catholic Central High School for more exposure. There were also two military style high schools for boys, LaSalle
Institute and Christian Brothers Academy.
However, religion was not part of the public school experience explicitly.
At least in grade school there were no Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc so the
base assumption was we were living in a Christian nation.
I forget if I was in second or third grade when 'under God' was added to
the Pledge of Allegiance by Eisenhower partly due to a promotion campaign
by the KofC.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 19:40:14 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
"resistor color coding"!! Now there's a flash from the past .....
Black, Black
Boys, Brown
Rape, Red
Our, Orange
Young, Yellow
Girls, Green
Blessed, Blue
Virginity, Violet
Gone, Grey
West, White
The Mnemonic we used back then might not be P.C. today but it worked
then!!
The first six are the same I learned, although the last four were "But
Violet Gives Willingly".
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 01:46:14 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_JzABhC2ARIsAPe3ynqF21qzFHdgwHKhNSUv0M-05_8AuGw_7dZsssIBsACo5ZvkcUQySfQaAjt2EALw_wcBI built from a
FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
from Radio Shack.
It wasn't until I bought a used
Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some
useful stuff.
Another walk down memory lane... I had a EICO VOM that https://www.newark.com/simpson/12211/multimeter-analog-7-functions/dp/01B6875?CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-PMAX-Shopping-New&mckv=_dc|pcrid||plid||kword||match||slid||product|01B6875|pgrid||ptaid||&gad_source=
kit. I got a lot of use from it before a coworker managed to destroy it.
The company replaced it with a Simpson 260 so it was a trade-up probably although I think EICO copied the Simpson. I did not lend that one out and also had the roll top case to protect it from clumsy wrench jockeys.
https://www.simpson260.com/accessories/case/simpson_00248.htm
Back in the day you could get on an airplane with something like that.
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are.
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any >>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are >>>>>>> to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of >>>>>>> the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the >>>>>>> idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous >>>>>>> problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use >>>>>>> their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if >>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much >>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got >>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced >>>>>>> that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
Can confirm, at least in some cases. My wife needed a new laptop, but >>>>>> she wanted Apple. They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use >>>>>> a web-browser. So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one >>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time. (One >>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become >>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded). I put Linux, and there was a tiny >>>>>> bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for >>>>>> years successfully. She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's >>>>>> running Fedora. Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little
familiarity with it. But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few >>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some >>>>>> desktop config.
That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple >>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an >>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more >>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do >>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be >>>>> used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike >>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also
aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be
upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to.
I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to >>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could >>>>>> switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly >>>>>> similar. It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the >>>>>> most.
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that
much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in >>>>> front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or
Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and
surveillance and the like. He wanted a distro most similar to Windows >>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop
computer configured to be the same as the laptop. No issues so far.
Cinnamon is quite Windows-like. Gnome on the other hand, I think that >>>> is more of a leap. I myself didn't really find it all that usable or
appealing.
I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I >>> say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what >>> little Mac experience I have.
I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what
MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently
with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only
manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides,
for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to
MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under
the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring
additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support.
For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional
software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it
works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works
better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll
not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are
a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them
in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better
than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the
Mac.
Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
I imagine that they did the same in
some areas of the United States since there are places like Minneapolis
that have a serious Muslim majority and have turned into the kind of shitholes we expect from that religion.
You don't even want to know what a new Simpson meter cost these days.
Also, by the time the 1970s rolled around, Black Boys had become Bad
Boys.
On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:29:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
You don't even want to know what a new Simpson meter cost these days.
Amazon is showing a 260-EP for $750. The handy dandy inflation calculator says that is $94.98 1971 dollars, which iirc is about right. They never
were cheap. Who says Flukes are expensive?
My old RatShack is holding up so far and does what I need.
On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 02:33:34 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the
Mac.
Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
When you live in a walled garden it's easy to ensure Apple devices connect
to Apple peripherals and rule Apple software. In the Windows and Linux
world, who knows what mishmash of parts somebody is going to try to run
the software on?
The only analog meter I have is a TenMa millivolt meter I use to
calibrate analog tape decks,
On 2025-04-23, pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-21, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 4/18/25 16:46, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-18, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-17 10:04, Borax Man wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-17, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-16 23:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:55:12 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
At what point do we finally give up?
When the people start to see through those vendors’ multi-million-dollar
marketing campaigns telling everybody how wonderful they are. >>>>>>>>>>
In other words, never.
I would blame the ignorance of the common user much more than any >>>>>>>>> marketing campaign. You'd be surprised at how oblivious most people are
to the operating system they're using. Heck, this complete disregard of
the operating system is part of what made it easy for me to "sell" the
idea of using Linux to people who owned HP laptops which had tremendous
problems with Windows or to teachers who simply want to be able to use
their computers rather than constantly be locked out of them. As long as
the operating system manages to get the job done, they don't care if >>>>>>>>> it's Linux or Windows. My dad is one such person. He actually much >>>>>>>>> preferred Mint to Windows when I installed it on a cheap laptop I got >>>>>>>>> him, but he's fine with Windows on the Intel NUC he eventually replaced
that machine with. Until it bugs out, there is no reason to switch over.
Can confirm, at least in some cases. My wife needed a new laptop, but >>>>>>>> she wanted Apple. They're expensive, far more so when all you do is use
a web-browser. So I said I'll take care of the laptop, I'll find one >>>>>>>> that is second hand, and will be supported for a long long time. (One >>>>>>>> of the bugbears she had about Apple was how the OS and software become >>>>>>>> obsolete and could not be upgraded). I put Linux, and there was a tiny
bit of teething because it was different, but she's been using it for >>>>>>>> years successfully. She's has no idea about Linux, doesn't know she's >>>>>>>> running Fedora. Shes used my desktop machine, so had a little >>>>>>>> familiarity with it. But surprisingly, theres be no issues, and few >>>>>>>> questions, aside from "how do I copy files from the USB stick" and some
desktop config.
That's part of why I didn't mind that my very low bid for this Apple >>>>>>> laptop was successful, and that I needed to pursue the purchase. To an >>>>>>> Apple user, this MacBook Air 2017 is obsolete and meant for little more >>>>>>> than recycling. For me, it does everything I would need a laptop to do >>>>>>> at work. With Linux, it stays out of the landfill and can continue to be
used for another decade. Heck, I might use it until I retire. Unlike >>>>>>> most other teachers, I am _aware_ that it uses Linux, but I am also >>>>>>> aware that our work does not require this kind of hardware to be >>>>>>> upgraded as often as our boards and manufacturers require us to. >>>>>>>
I think that people who know next to nothing, will find a switch to >>>>>>>> Linux easier, because they have so few ingraned workflows and
expectations, and use the system at such a shallow level, that you could
switch and they'll barely notice, as long as the desktop is roughly >>>>>>>> similar. It is more the intermediate users, who would be disrupted the
most.
The desktops being roughly similar is only a necessity for users who >>>>>>> were already old when they learned MacOS or Windows and did so
stubbornly. Considering how difficult it was for them to adopt that >>>>>>> much, you wouldn't want to put an entirely different operating system in
front of them. For anyone else, a switch from Windows to Gnome or >>>>>>> Cinnamon shouldn't be such a chore.
I switched a friend to Linux, as he wanted to escape Microsoft AI and >>>>>> surveillance and the like. He wanted a distro most similar to Windows >>>>>> for the desktop, but as I had already installed Linux Mint on the
laptop, using Cinnamon, I decided he's better off having his desktop >>>>>> computer configured to be the same as the laptop. No issues so far. >>>>>> Cinnamon is quite Windows-like. Gnome on the other hand, I think that >>>>>> is more of a leap. I myself didn't really find it all that usable or >>>>>> appealing.
I think if you're coming over from a Mac Ubuntu might be more appealing. I
say this just because it seems to look more like a Mac, not because of what
little Mac experience I have.
I would say that Ubuntu's default interface is actually superior to what >>>> MacOS offers. It might not have hardware that integrates intelligently >>>> with the desktop, but it has a number of things Mac users can only
manage to do if they install additional software. Snapping to the sides, >>>> for example. Ubuntu 25.04 also has hardware support that is superior to >>>> MacOS since it runs on practically every imaginable configuration under >>>> the sun, can detect just about any printer and scanner without requiring >>>> additional drivers, and even manages to have excellent gamepad support. >>>> For example, I have a Thrustmaster eSwap X Pro that needs additional
software even in Windows. In 24.10, it didn't detect, but in 25.04 it
works out of the box. I would say that this release actually works
better on my hardware by default than even Windows does.
I'm not really a fan of either Ubuntu's desktop or Mac's desktop, so I'll >>> not argue on this point. I know I don't like Window snapping, but there are >>> a few things in the Mac's desktop I don't like at all (I've mentioned them >>> in the past). So I'm quite willing to believe Ubuntu's desktop is better >>> than Mac's, but still not something I like or want to use.
I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac. >> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices >> and works.
Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
Not worth it for me.
Device integration is something I avoid like the plague, so Apple has allure for me at all.
On Tue, 22 Apr 2025 14:47:39 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
Also, by the time the 1970s rolled around, Black Boys had become Bad
Boys.
Yes, they did. Still are. The BLM crew learned a lot from the mostly
peaceful '60s riots. Politicians can ignore your marches and protest
rallies until you start burning shit down.
On 2025-04-22, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-04-22 02:09, RonB wrote:
On 2025-04-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:08:18 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Pope Francis died (RIP). It would be nice if we could get a Catholic >>>>> Pope instead of another Woke one this time.
Good luck with that. I think Pope Benedict retired when he realized he >>>> couldn't win against the Vatican's deep state. Be fun to get an African >>>> pope. Before the DEI crew scores a victory they should know the African >>>> bishops are as unwoke as it gets.
I understand that. The whole reason BRICS is making so much headway in
Africa is because Africans are not interested in the Woke horsecrap. They >>> absolutely reject the transgender stupidity the "Western" world tried to >>> force on them as conditions required before they could receive loans.
I actually ignored the possibility that American investment came with an
obligation to enter the Church of Woke. I guess the American government
will only have itself to blame if its entire economy is ruined because
of BRICS.
It might be the death of the Rothschild Empire.
My dad can't wait for the collapse to happen. I'm not nearly as anxious because (along with the collapse of Rothschilds) it will take down our country economically. I'm pretty old, but I've got kids (and grandkids) and
I don't want to see this hardship for them.
For a 'scope, I have an ancient Tek 7834 400 MHz mainframe, with two dual-channel vertical amplifier plug-ins to go along with the main and delayed time-base plug-ins. It's from the 80's but still works good. I confess that it's mostly decorative, these days. I've thought about
selling it but it's so damn cool looking. All the knobs and buttons and switches that you could desire! 8)
pothead wrote:
FWIW my dad had both a Heathkit and EICO scope, the basic one and I
spent countless hours learning about Lissajous patterns using booklets
from Radio Shack.
It wasn't until I bought a used
Leader scope at a computer fair of all places that I really learned some
useful stuff.
Another walk down memory lane... I had a EICO VOM that I built from a
kit. I got a lot of use from it before a coworker managed to destroy it.
The company replaced it with a Simpson 260 so it was a trade-up probably >although I think EICO copied the Simpson. I did not lend that one out and >also had the roll top case to protect it from clumsy wrench jockeys.
https://www.simpson260.com/accessories/case/simpson_00248.htm
Back in the day you could get on an airplane with something like that.
pothead wrote:
<snip>
I'm not a fan of Ubuntu but I do respect what Apple has done with the Mac. >> Both my son and daughter are Macheads and for me seeing how all Apple
devices integrate into the Mac is quite impressive.
I'm reasonably certain this can be done with Linux/Windows although
I have never tried but the point is with Apple it just picks up the devices >> and works.
Of course that convienience factor is going to cost you plenty.
Not worth it for me.
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