XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Over in the Apple world, the big news is that Apple is redesigning its
GUI.

Meanwhile, here in the Linux world, we see a GUI redesign as an
entirely separate issue from the OS kernel. We already have the widest
choice of GUIs of any platform, and groups keep doing redesigns all
the time. Ho hum.

Now Microsoft is chiming in, trying to remind people of its own past
GUI design efforts that resemble Apple’s supposedly
new-and-ground-breaking “Liquid Glass” <https://www.theverge.com/news/685325/microsoft-is-just-leaving-some-liquid-glass-here>.

Has Microsoft itself forgotten why it abandoned that idea? It was
because it couldn’t implement it without exorbitant use of hardware resources.

Meanwhile, the Linux world never had to give up its GUI eye candy for
that reason. Because we have smarter programmers, who know how to
implement stuff more efficiently. And it helps that the underlying
toolkits they use are more efficient as well.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Jun 11, 2025 at 8:22:56 PM EDT, "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

Over in the Apple world, the big news is that Apple is redesigning its
GUI.

For iPhones and iPads. Because mobile CPUs and GPUs have more than enough power now to handle this.

And BTW, MacOS had the beginnings of this (23? 22?) years ago. Years before Windows copied it. So its not an "invention" at all. Just something new for iPhones and iPads.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-06-11 17:22, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Over in the Apple world, the big news is that Apple is redesigning its
GUI.

Nope. The big news is actually about the improved functionality.

Meanwhile, here in the Linux world, we see a GUI redesign as an
entirely separate issue from the OS kernel. We already have the widest
choice of GUIs of any platform, and groups keep doing redesigns all
the time. Ho hum.

Amazing that you don't realize that there is a lot of stuff BETWEEN the
OS kernel and the GUI.

Now Microsoft is chiming in, trying to remind people of its own past
GUI design efforts that resemble Apple’s supposedly
new-and-ground-breaking “Liquid Glass” <https://www.theverge.com/news/685325/microsoft-is-just-leaving-some-liquid-glass-here>.

Has Microsoft itself forgotten why it abandoned that idea? It was
because it couldn’t implement it without exorbitant use of hardware resources.

And do you think that maybe systems available today might have MORE
resources? Hmmm?

Meanwhile, the Linux world never had to give up its GUI eye candy for
that reason. Because we have smarter programmers, who know how to
implement stuff more efficiently. And it helps that the underlying
toolkits they use are more efficient as well.

So you think that Linux is sufficiently more efficient to make a
difference in which systems can do advanced rendering?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-06-22 12:33, Tom Elam wrote:

On 6/13/2025 1:47 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-06-11 17:22, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Over in the Apple world, the big news is that Apple is redesigning its
GUI.

Nope. The big news is actually about the improved functionality.

Meanwhile, here in the Linux world, we see a GUI redesign as an
entirely separate issue from the OS kernel. We already have the widest
choice of GUIs of any platform, and groups keep doing redesigns all
the time. Ho hum.

Amazing that you don't realize that there is a lot of stuff BETWEEN
the OS kernel and the GUI.

Now Microsoft is chiming in, trying to remind people of its own past
GUI design efforts that resemble Apple’s supposedly
new-and-ground-breaking “Liquid Glass”
<https://www.theverge.com/news/685325/microsoft-is-just-leaving-some-
liquid-glass-here>.

Has Microsoft itself forgotten why it abandoned that idea? It was
because it couldn’t implement it without exorbitant use of hardware
resources.

And do you think that maybe systems available today might have MORE
resources? Hmmm?

Meanwhile, the Linux world never had to give up its GUI eye candy for
that reason. Because we have smarter programmers, who know how to
implement stuff more efficiently. And it helps that the underlying
toolkits they use are more efficient as well.

So you think that Linux is sufficiently more efficient to make a
difference in which systems can do advanced rendering?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Interesting site

https://vfxrenderfarm.net/render-farm-hardware/

Does Apple or Microsoft have a meaningful share of rendering OS on a commercial scale?

Which isn't about which OS is "more efficient".

So totally on-brand for you.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-06-22 21:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:33:00 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:

So you think that Linux is sufficiently more efficient to make a
difference in which systems can do advanced rendering?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Interesting site

https://vfxrenderfarm.net/render-farm-hardware/

Does Apple or Microsoft have a meaningful share of rendering OS on a
commercial scale?

Fun fact: the VFX industry is dominated by Linux.

Fun fact:

The VFX industries render farms may run Linux...

...but that's because it is inexpensive.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:33:00 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:

So you think that Linux is sufficiently more efficient to make a
difference in which systems can do advanced rendering?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Interesting site

https://vfxrenderfarm.net/render-farm-hardware/

Does Apple or Microsoft have a meaningful share of rendering OS on a commercial scale?

Fun fact: the VFX industry is dominated by Linux.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-06-23 06:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Alan wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

On 2025-06-22 21:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:33:00 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:

So you think that Linux is sufficiently more efficient to make a
difference in which systems can do advanced rendering?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Interesting site

https://vfxrenderfarm.net/render-farm-hardware/

Does Apple or Microsoft have a meaningful share of rendering OS on a
commercial scale?

Fun fact: the VFX industry is dominated by Linux.

Fun fact:

The VFX industries render farms may run Linux...

...but that's because it is inexpensive.

And fast!

Why?

Does it have magic beans?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 14:23:49 -0400, Paul wrote:

On Tue, 6/24/2025 8:11 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Efficient code. Less code to load. A fully-operable desktop system with just
about all the apps you'd ever need in the space of one Visual Studio install.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9gwphj/why_does_linux_seem_to_be_an_order_of_magnitude/>

Mostly what you're seeing and commenting on, is the DE part of Windows.

But there is no separation between the GUI and kernel -- that’s a key
part of the problem with Windows. And Apple, too.

Would it cost Microsoft anything, to improve the threading model ?

Look at this posting <https://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-we-are-slower-than-other-oper/>
from an anonymous Microsoft engineer, trying to explain why Windows is
not only worse than Linux, but is destined to fall even further
behind. That post was from 2013: you can judge for yourself how well
that prediction turned out.

Look at this passage:

There's also little incentive to create changes in the first
place. On linux-kernel, if you improve the performance of
directory traversal by a consistent 5%, you're praised and
thanked. Here, if you do that and you're not on the object manager
team, then even if you do get your code past the Ob owners and
into the tree, your own management doesn't care.

You think that’s bad? Read the part around it.

And this little gem:

(That's literally the explanation for PowerShell. Many of us
wanted to improve cmd.exe, but couldn't.)

This part in the addendum, though:

We do not ship code that someone doesn't maintain and understand,
even if it takes a little while for new people to ramp up
sometimes.

If all the shipping code is in fact understandable, why does Windows
need to reboot about 5 times during an install?

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 21:31:06 -0400, Paul wrote:

On Tue, 6/24/2025 6:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

If all the shipping code is in fact understandable, why does Windows
need to reboot about 5 times during an install?

The install happens in phases.

They keep the old Windows folder, while building a new Windows folder.

The programs might need to be migrated. There's a phase for that. There
is a phase for installing drivers.

A Linux system can upgrade everything with a single reboot.

Why are they different? Something to do with the fact that Windows keeps a
lock on open files, so if those files are essential to a running system
they cannot be replaced while the system is running?

Unlike Linux, the installer has the ability to roll "all the way back"
to the starting state.

If that were true, there would never be any failed Windows installs.

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 02:02:40 -0400, Paul wrote:

This is not a contest of wits.

It does look that way though, doesn’t it?

Microsoft has, what, 100,000 employees? (Less a few thousand from the last couple of rounds of layoffs.) Yet they can’t match the versatility of a
Free Software project with maybe only 1,000 reasonably active contributors
at any one time.

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