• Any good introductions for Kermit?

    From Borax Man@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 23 12:14:07 2025
    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    I've followed the instructions here https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server" https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it
    up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Goerzen@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Wed Apr 23 13:06:57 2025
    Hello,

    I seem to have picked the right day to look in on this group, which I do irregularly.

    Replies below.

    On 2025-04-23, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    Yes, it's called IKSD. It's fun to play around with, but lacks modern TLS and such.


    I've followed the instructions here https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server" https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I run that server, and tried it just now.

    I tried dir, cd, get, pwd, and so forth. They all worked. File downloads worked (note, you use the SEND, not GET, to do these because you're sending commands to the remote kermit).

    Things like ls, which map directly to local programs, won't work. Run "help ls"
    and "help dir" to note the difference between them. dir is a kermit built-in; ls is a call to an external program.

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it
    up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/ will link you to the IKSD documentation that exists. It was always a bit obscure so there's nothing great out there.

    I wouldn't bother trying to get TLS working; kermit's TLS is from an earlier era
    and doesn't really support modern TLS. You could put a TLS proxy in front of it
    (eg, stunnel).

    There are some good Kermit books out there, which you can find used on various places. There's a PDF at https://www.kermitproject.org/ck90.html , but also check out https://www.kermitproject.org/booksonline.html for more.

    - John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 24 13:50:49 2025
    In article <slrn100hmce.fcd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>, rotflol2
    @hotmail.com says...

    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    I've followed the instructions here https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server" https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it
    up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    If you're not looking to run something public, another option is using
    Kermit as an SSH subsystem:
    https://kermitproject.org/skermit.html

    That way you get to delegate security to OpenSSH and just leave Kermit
    to doing file transfer. Making a connection is still a little more
    complicated than it could be, but writing a script as instructed by that
    page should help.

    In the unlikely event you want to make such a connection from a Windows
    box, I'll note that the Kermit 95 section of that page is out of date:
    Kermit 95 now has a built-in command (skermit) for making these kinds of connections using its built-in SSH client.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Borax Man@21:1/5 to John Goerzen on Thu Apr 24 14:09:49 2025
    On 2025-04-23, John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> wrote:
    Hello,

    I seem to have picked the right day to look in on this group, which I do irregularly.

    Replies below.

    On 2025-04-23, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    Yes, it's called IKSD. It's fun to play around with, but lacks modern TLS and
    such.


    I have it mostly working, though just on my private network for now. I
    recall seeing Kermit back when I used BBS's, which is why I was curious
    about it now.


    I've followed the instructions here
    https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get >> ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server"
    https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I run that server, and tried it just now.

    I tried dir, cd, get, pwd, and so forth. They all worked. File downloads worked (note, you use the SEND, not GET, to do these because you're sending commands to the remote kermit).

    Things like ls, which map directly to local programs, won't work. Run "help ls"
    and "help dir" to note the difference between them. dir is a kermit built-in;
    ls is a call to an external program.


    It stumbled across your site which got me interested in kermit, and I've
    been looking at NNCP as I may have a use case for it. Older
    technologies seem to have solved problems that people are reinventing
    solutions for now.

    You are right, I was using the wrong commands and its working now. It
    seems so obvious now why I would not be able to necessarily run remote commands! Thank you.

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it
    up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/ will link you to
    the IKSD documentation that exists. It was always a bit obscure so there's nothing great out there.

    I wouldn't bother trying to get TLS working; kermit's TLS is from an earlier era
    and doesn't really support modern TLS. You could put a TLS proxy in front of it
    (eg, stunnel).

    There are some good Kermit books out there, which you can find used on various
    places. There's a PDF at https://www.kermitproject.org/ck90.html , but also check out https://www.kermitproject.org/booksonline.html for more.

    - John

    Appreciate your help, and your work keeping this knowledge around.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Borax Man@21:1/5 to David Goodwin on Thu Apr 24 14:30:22 2025
    On 2025-04-24, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
    In article <slrn100hmce.fcd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>, rotflol2
    @hotmail.com says...

    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    I've followed the instructions here
    https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get >> ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server"
    https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it
    up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    If you're not looking to run something public, another option is using
    Kermit as an SSH subsystem:
    https://kermitproject.org/skermit.html

    That way you get to delegate security to OpenSSH and just leave Kermit
    to doing file transfer. Making a connection is still a little more complicated than it could be, but writing a script as instructed by that
    page should help.

    In the unlikely event you want to make such a connection from a Windows
    box, I'll note that the Kermit 95 section of that page is out of date:
    Kermit 95 now has a built-in command (skermit) for making these kinds of connections using its built-in SSH client.


    I did find this, but got stuck as the script didn't work.

    I added the line

    Subsystem kermit /usr/local/bin/kermit-sshsub

    to /etc/ssh/sshd_config

    But issuing the command below from within kermit

    set host /pipe ssh -e none -T -s raspberrypi.lan kermit

    returns instantly.


    The command

    ssh -e none -T -s raspberrypi.lan kermit

    issued from BASH hangs (connects) and spawns the kermit-sshsub process
    on the ssh server. kermit-sshsub does not get spawned when connecting
    from within kermit.

    The script fails with "Kermit Server not found". I know ssh is
    configured correctly, because I can SSH in to the system normally no
    problem.

    It's not a big deal if I don't get this working, as I've found how to
    get it working by other means, but its more for my curiousity (and
    confirming that the instructions still should work!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Goodwin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 25 13:07:17 2025
    In article <slrn100kinu.edd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>, rotflol2
    @hotmail.com says...

    On 2025-04-24, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
    In article <slrn100hmce.fcd.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>, rotflol2
    @hotmail.com says...

    I've stumbled accross a suggestion that Kermit can be good for file transfers.

    https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2019-01-31-kermit.html

    This works well, if you SSH within kermit, and I've tried it
    sucessfully. But there is a way, supposedly, to run kermit as a
    'server'.

    I've followed the instructions here
    https://www.complete.org/how-to-run-an-internet-kermit-server/

    To start a server, which works. Sort of, I can login as anonymous, but get
    ?Access to system disabled
    when I try any commands.

    The same happens when trying "the last kermit server"
    https://www.complete.org/try-the-last-internet-kermit-server/

    I'm doing this purely out of interest, its not imperitave that it get it >> up and running. I'm just looking for some good introductory
    documentation where I can begin to troubleshot this, and perhaps figure
    out how to get PAM authentication and/or TLS working.

    If you're not looking to run something public, another option is using Kermit as an SSH subsystem:
    https://kermitproject.org/skermit.html

    That way you get to delegate security to OpenSSH and just leave Kermit
    to doing file transfer. Making a connection is still a little more complicated than it could be, but writing a script as instructed by that page should help.

    In the unlikely event you want to make such a connection from a Windows box, I'll note that the Kermit 95 section of that page is out of date: Kermit 95 now has a built-in command (skermit) for making these kinds of connections using its built-in SSH client.


    I did find this, but got stuck as the script didn't work.

    I added the line

    Subsystem kermit /usr/local/bin/kermit-sshsub

    to /etc/ssh/sshd_config

    But issuing the command below from within kermit

    set host /pipe ssh -e none -T -s raspberrypi.lan kermit

    returns instantly.


    The command

    ssh -e none -T -s raspberrypi.lan kermit

    issued from BASH hangs (connects) and spawns the kermit-sshsub process
    on the ssh server. kermit-sshsub does not get spawned when connecting
    from within kermit.

    The script fails with "Kermit Server not found". I know ssh is
    configured correctly, because I can SSH in to the system normally no
    problem.

    It's not a big deal if I don't get this working, as I've found how to
    get it working by other means, but its more for my curiousity (and
    confirming that the instructions still should work!)

    I've just remembered seeing in the changelog for C-Kermit 10 that the
    pipe command was broken as of at least August 2024, so that will be why
    it isn't working.

    Oh well, I guess until thats fixed kermit-as-an-ssh-subsystem is a
    feature just for Kermit 95!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Goerzen@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Fri Apr 25 17:14:38 2025
    On 2025-04-24, Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Yes, it's called IKSD. It's fun to play around with, but lacks modern TLS and
    such.


    I have it mostly working, though just on my private network for now. I recall seeing Kermit back when I used BBS's, which is why I was curious
    about it now.

    Indeed! My first use for it was actually getting data onto my HP-48GX calculator.

    [snip]

    It stumbled across your site which got me interested in kermit, and I've
    been looking at NNCP as I may have a use case for it. Older
    technologies seem to have solved problems that people are reinventing solutions for now.

    Feel free to drop me an email with NNCP questions as well. I check comp.mail.uucp periodically (monthly?) but an email to me or to the nncp-devel list will likely get a faster response.

    Appreciate your help, and your work keeping this knowledge around.

    And thanks for your interest!

    - John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)