Hi,

Here is a video presentation of the ATARI ST at Las Vegas CES 1985:

*Atari ST Launch & First Public Demo* - *Winter CES 1985*
At the Rees channel 2022/01/07 LAS VEGAS

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcK4kCuYthA>

Atari 130ST and 520ST first public demo from the Winter Consumer
Electronics Show 1985, hosted in Las Vegas in January 1985.

In it the unknown announcer discusses the ST's TOS operating system and
its desktop - GEM - including its original CP/M-68K underpinnings, which
of course were replaced with GEMDOS shortly before release. There are a
few interesting differences between the version demoed here and the
final release, including the desktop icons which had to be changed due
to a lawsuit from Apple.

This video seems to have vanished from YouTube so I decided to upload
this segment for preservation.

This was 40 years ago, because the Las Vegas CES begins these days =)

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

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I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of
resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness. :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ: Real Atari ST BBS! www.sfhqbbs.org (21:3/171.0)

Hi,

Darklord writes:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness. :)

I had an ATARI 1040STf in 1986, with a NEC printer and a monochrome
display. Then I had a MegaSTe 4 in 1991. And a Falcon030+882 in 1993,
with a multisync EZIO display. Then in June 1996 I had an ATARI clone
called Hades060 from Medusa Computer Systems. It was the first TT clone
bought from France, and maybe bought in the world, I suspect.

So I'm really fond of ATARI computers, and enjoy celebrating 40th
anniversary of presentation, at date of Las Vegas CES in January 1985.

It would really be great if ATARI remembered its ATARI ST computer
users, like me, specially because I'm an ATARI developer, and that
I like sharing my GEM software, as widely as it used to be from 1986
to 1996, and later than this decade, with the worldwide internet.

Maybe the ATARI firm has projects around this quarantine? It's there!

Best regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeler) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 07/01/2025 09:11, Darklord wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness. :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Darklord wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of
resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness.  :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

The Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) from Digital Research existed both
for ATARI ST and IBM/PC (or AmstradPC, or whateverPC) written mainly in
"C" language, portable, and almost free software now. It could be ported
on the ATARI VCS (a computer from ATARI S.A.!) so that ported ATARI 68k software (written in "C", cross-compiled, like mine) could run with it, eventually with the usage of a virtual machine in a first period, like
ARAnyM. That's how Apple have done with the Mac, transitioning 68k ->
PPC -> Intel -> ARM. Transitioning from Apple, was simple to users and developers, ask them! I've lived it using all different Apple computers.

That could be the rebirth of ATARI computers, forty years after ST =)
I'm not kidding! Do you know GEM, ATARI VCS, "C" language, ARAnyM, Mac?

I hope that it makes sense...

Best regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 09/02/2025 15:10, Francois LE COAT wrote:

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Darklord wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of
resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness.  :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

The Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) from Digital Research existed both
for ATARI ST and IBM/PC (or AmstradPC, or whateverPC) written mainly in
"C" language, portable, and almost free software now. It could be ported
on the ATARI VCS (a computer from ATARI S.A.!) so that ported ATARI 68k software (written in "C", cross-compiled, like mine) could run with it, eventually with the usage of a virtual machine in a first period, like ARAnyM. That's how Apple have done with the Mac, transitioning 68k ->
PPC -> Intel -> ARM. Transitioning from Apple, was simple to users and developers, ask them! I've lived it using all different Apple computers.

That could be the rebirth of ATARI computers, forty years after ST =)
I'm not kidding! Do you know GEM, ATARI VCS, "C" language, ARAnyM, Mac?

Actually I'd be kind of intrigued if someone can build Aranym for iPad.
The hardware is really pretty powerful and I'm sure SDL supports iOS.
Think different!

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of
resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness.  :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

The Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) from Digital Research existed both
for ATARI ST and IBM/PC (or AmstradPC, or whateverPC) written mainly in
"C" language, portable, and almost free software now. It could be ported
on the ATARI VCS (a computer from ATARI S.A.!) so that ported ATARI 68k
software (written in "C", cross-compiled, like mine) could run with it,
eventually with the usage of a virtual machine in a first period, like
ARAnyM. That's how Apple have done with the Mac, transitioning 68k ->
PPC -> Intel -> ARM. Transitioning from Apple, was simple to users and
developers, ask them! I've lived it using all different Apple computers.

That could be the rebirth of ATARI computers, forty years after ST =)
I'm not kidding! Do you know GEM, ATARI VCS, "C" language, ARAnyM, Mac?

Actually I'd be kind of intrigued if someone can build Aranym for iPad.
The hardware is really pretty powerful and I'm sure SDL supports iOS.
Think different!

Well, iPad is a tactile mobile device, and not a computer. ARAnyM means
"ATARI Running on Any Machine", that means on any computer. The ATARI
virtual machine is not supposed to be supported on the iPad device.

The ATARI VCS is half a console and a computer, and ARAnyM is supported
on it. Because ARAnyM runs under GNU/Linux that is ATARI VCS's native OS

If the ATARI VCS could boot on EmuTOS, that means a x86 version of it,
that would be a huge step forward. EmuTOS is currently only booting on
68k computers. But EmuTOS is portable. Do you know it? It's free
software. ARAnyM virtual machine uses EmuTOS and boot with it.

That's how Eureka 2.12 runs with ATARI, Amiga, Macintosh and Lisa =)
If DR/GEM was ported to ATARI VCS natively, that would make sense...
Eureka 2.12 could run natively with the ATARI VCS computer, 40 years
after the ATARI ST.

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/02/2025 21:45, Francois LE COAT wrote:

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff!

Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of >>>>> resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness.  :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

The Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) from Digital Research existed both >>> for ATARI ST and IBM/PC (or AmstradPC, or whateverPC) written mainly in
"C" language, portable, and almost free software now. It could be ported >>> on the ATARI VCS (a computer from ATARI S.A.!) so that ported ATARI 68k
software (written in "C", cross-compiled, like mine) could run with it,
eventually with the usage of a virtual machine in a first period, like
ARAnyM. That's how Apple have done with the Mac, transitioning 68k ->
PPC -> Intel -> ARM. Transitioning from Apple, was simple to users and
developers, ask them! I've lived it using all different Apple computers. >>>
That could be the rebirth of ATARI computers, forty years after ST =)
I'm not kidding! Do you know GEM, ATARI VCS, "C" language, ARAnyM, Mac?

Actually I'd be kind of intrigued if someone can build Aranym for
iPad. The hardware is really pretty powerful and I'm sure SDL supports
iOS. Think different!

Well, iPad is a tactile mobile device, and not a computer. ARAnyM means "ATARI Running on Any Machine", that means on any computer. The ATARI
virtual machine is not supposed to be supported on the iPad device.

Well I disagree. An iPad is just a machine, and I don't see anywhere in
the Aranym docs restricting what hardware it is "supposed" to run on. In
fact on https://aranym.github.io it explicitly says "any kind of hardware".

The mouse emulation would be an interesting challenge, though of course
iPads do support pointing devices nowadays.

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

I watched this from a link on Facebook - pretty interesting stuff! >>>>>>
Loved the way that TOS desktop was using DRI GEM PC icons and sort of >>>>>> resembled a Mac (Lisa?). Coolness.  :)

It looks quite like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
GEM_(desktop_environment)#/media/File:Gem_11_Desktop.png

The Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) from Digital Research existed
both
for ATARI ST and IBM/PC (or AmstradPC, or whateverPC) written mainly in >>>> "C" language, portable, and almost free software now. It could be
ported
on the ATARI VCS (a computer from ATARI S.A.!) so that ported ATARI 68k >>>> software (written in "C", cross-compiled, like mine) could run with it, >>>> eventually with the usage of a virtual machine in a first period, like >>>> ARAnyM. That's how Apple have done with the Mac, transitioning 68k ->
PPC -> Intel -> ARM. Transitioning from Apple, was simple to users and >>>> developers, ask them! I've lived it using all different Apple
computers.

That could be the rebirth of ATARI computers, forty years after ST =)
I'm not kidding! Do you know GEM, ATARI VCS, "C" language, ARAnyM, Mac? >>>

Actually I'd be kind of intrigued if someone can build Aranym for
iPad. The hardware is really pretty powerful and I'm sure SDL
supports iOS. Think different!

Well, iPad is a tactile mobile device, and not a computer. ARAnyM means
"ATARI Running on Any Machine", that means on any computer. The ATARI
virtual machine is not supposed to be supported on the iPad device.

Well I disagree. An iPad is just a machine, and I don't see anywhere in
the Aranym docs restricting what hardware it is "supposed" to run on. In fact on https://aranym.github.io it explicitly says "any kind of hardware".

The mouse emulation would be an interesting challenge, though of course iPads do support pointing devices nowadays.

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before
thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

There's numerous developers for the Hatari emulator, but a very few
for the ARAnyM virtual machine. That's a real misery, and I'm the
only one testing macOS versions, because all developers have gone :-(
If you want to help ARAnyM devels, then you're welcome. But I think
that iOS or iPad OS support is totally out of question for the moment.

If all computers were correctly supported, we could then think about
mobile devices. But it is not at all, in the sensitive subjects for now.

You're dreaming. But the reality is sad. We talk here about computers.

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 12/02/2025 20:30, Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before
thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one developer
for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't upstream his
changes :-(

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a while
ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I do run it
on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer buildable on any
modern Mac/Xcode.

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before
thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one developer
for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't upstream his
changes :-(

Well the mess is not from developers, but from GitHub that is a
Microsoft technology. I don't understand anything to GitHub, that
is rather intended to Windows developers exclusively, I suspect.

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a while
ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I do run it
on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer buildable on any
modern Mac/Xcode.

That's what we're talking. For instance for the Hatari projects, there's releases, and developments. But for ARAnyM it's not the case, at all.
If there was a favorite developments platform, like the ATARI VCS, that
would make things easier. x86 ARAnyM target is the most accomplished,
for Windows, macOS and GNU/Linux. For ARM all is rather experimental.
Among GitHub, all CPU targets, the situation for devels is inextricable. Specially for old software like ARAnyM, that is in delicate situation.
It seems to me that peoples are discouraged with the GitHub complexity.

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/02/2025 17:30, Francois LE COAT wrote:

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before
thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one
developer for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't
upstream his changes :-(

Well the mess is not from developers, but from GitHub that is a
Microsoft technology. I don't understand anything to GitHub, that
is rather intended to Windows developers exclusively, I suspect.

I'm not sure. I don't perceive a Windows bias in Github, after all it
was used for open source projects for a very long time before Microsoft
bought GitHub.

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a while
ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I do run
it on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer buildable on
any modern Mac/Xcode.

That's what we're talking. For instance for the Hatari projects, there's releases, and developments. But for ARAnyM it's not the case, at all.
If there was a favorite developments platform, like the ATARI VCS, that
would make things easier. x86 ARAnyM target is the most accomplished,
for Windows, macOS and GNU/Linux. For ARM all is rather experimental.
Among GitHub, all CPU targets, the situation for devels is inextricable. Specially for old software like ARAnyM, that is in delicate situation.
It seems to me that peoples are discouraged with the GitHub complexity.

Perhaps, but honestly it just looks like git to me with their own style
of pull requests. Nothing outrageously different here. Do you have any
concrete examples of "the situation for devels is inextricable"
especially regarding GitHub?

I think a Mac specific problem in Aranym is the use of SDL. That's a
good library but mostly intended for games, and the story of gaming on
the Mac has never been great. Contrast with gaming on iOS, and I wonder
if the iOS version of SDL is more mature. For sure the Mac version of
SDL is (even in SDL3!) using some private AppKit APIs internally which
does not seem wise.

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before
thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one
developer for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't
upstream his changes :-(

Well the mess is not from developers, but from GitHub that is a
Microsoft technology. I don't understand anything to GitHub, that
is rather intended to Windows developers exclusively, I suspect.

I'm not sure. I don't perceive a Windows bias in Github, after all it
was used for open source projects for a very long time before Microsoft bought GitHub.

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a while
ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I do run
it on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer buildable on
any modern Mac/Xcode.

That's what we're talking. For instance for the Hatari projects, there's
releases, and developments. But for ARAnyM it's not the case, at all.
If there was a favorite developments platform, like the ATARI VCS, that
would make things easier. x86 ARAnyM target is the most accomplished,
for Windows, macOS and GNU/Linux. For ARM all is rather experimental.
Among GitHub, all CPU targets, the situation for devels is inextricable.
Specially for old software like ARAnyM, that is in delicate situation.
It seems to me that peoples are discouraged with the GitHub complexity.

Perhaps, but honestly it just looks like git to me with their own style
of pull requests. Nothing outrageously different here. Do you have any concrete examples of "the situation for devels is inextricable"
especially regarding GitHub?

Yes. Will I have to pay developers to obtain macOS or Windows binaries?
I remind you that we're speaking of *free software* hosted on GitHub.
All would be simpler, if the prioritized devel platform was ATARI VCS!

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 15/02/2025 09:30, Francois LE COAT wrote:

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is
hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before >>>>> thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS!

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one
developer for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't
upstream his changes :-(

Well the mess is not from developers, but from GitHub that is a
Microsoft technology. I don't understand anything to GitHub, that
is rather intended to Windows developers exclusively, I suspect.

I'm not sure. I don't perceive a Windows bias in Github, after all it
was used for open source projects for a very long time before
Microsoft bought GitHub.

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a while
ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I do run
it on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer buildable
on any modern Mac/Xcode.

That's what we're talking. For instance for the Hatari projects, there's >>> releases, and developments. But for ARAnyM it's not the case, at all.
If there was a favorite developments platform, like the ATARI VCS, that
would make things easier. x86 ARAnyM target is the most accomplished,
for Windows, macOS and GNU/Linux. For ARM all is rather experimental.
Among GitHub, all CPU targets, the situation for devels is inextricable. >>> Specially for old software like ARAnyM, that is in delicate situation.
It seems to me that peoples are discouraged with the GitHub complexity.

Perhaps, but honestly it just looks like git to me with their own
style of pull requests. Nothing outrageously different here. Do you
have any concrete examples of "the situation for devels is
inextricable" especially regarding GitHub?

Yes. Will I have to pay developers to obtain macOS or Windows binaries?

I can't speak for Windows. But for Macs there are a few scenarios for developers:

* do nothing: the app cannot be notarised by Apple and users will get
warned the app is untrusted. There's an extra step in System Settings
that the user has to take to allow it. This is not difficult, but it
needs documenting. It only affects the first run.

* pay for an individual Apple Developer Program membership ($99 per
annum): this lets the developer submit it to Apple for notarisation, and
users will no longer get a warning.

* figure out how to get a waiver for that program membership for the
Aranym *team* ($0 but there is some overhead as you have to be an
official (and US?) non-profit organisation): this lets the team submit
it to Apple for notarisation, and users will no longer get a warning.

Developers can notarise as many times per year as they want, so you'd
want to do this in an automated way for every build. I think Philipp's
done this, possibly with an individual membership.

Apple's notarisation system is meant to scan your code for "malicious
content". Obviously you can choose to believe they really just want to
screw developers out of $99 every year.

I assume (but have no evidence) that the waiver option is aimed at open
source projects. It would be interesting to find out what other open
source projects actually do.

--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

Do you know the status of ARAnyM developments? There's only one
developer for the macOS target, and the support of Apple Silicon is >>>>>> hardly working, though the JIT compiler is not supported yet. Before >>>>>> thinking about an iOS support, there's a lot to be done with macOS! >>>>>

Of course I do, and it does look a bit of a mess. If your "one
developer for the macOS target" is Philipp Donze, then he doesn't
upstream his changes :-(

Well the mess is not from developers, but from GitHub that is a
Microsoft technology. I don't understand anything to GitHub, that
is rather intended to Windows developers exclusively, I suspect.

I'm not sure. I don't perceive a Windows bias in Github, after all it
was used for open source projects for a very long time before
Microsoft bought GitHub.

Having said that, I did build the MacAranym-Latest.xcodeproj a
while ago, create a small improvement to the screenshot code, and I >>>>> do run it on an M1. The "main" MacAranym.xcodeproj is no longer
buildable on any modern Mac/Xcode.

That's what we're talking. For instance for the Hatari projects,
there's
releases, and developments. But for ARAnyM it's not the case, at all.
If there was a favorite developments platform, like the ATARI VCS, that >>>> would make things easier. x86 ARAnyM target is the most accomplished,
for Windows, macOS and GNU/Linux. For ARM all is rather experimental.
Among GitHub, all CPU targets, the situation for devels is
inextricable.
Specially for old software like ARAnyM, that is in delicate situation. >>>> It seems to me that peoples are discouraged with the GitHub complexity. >>>

Perhaps, but honestly it just looks like git to me with their own
style of pull requests. Nothing outrageously different here. Do you
have any concrete examples of "the situation for devels is
inextricable" especially regarding GitHub?

Yes. Will I have to pay developers to obtain macOS or Windows binaries?

I can't speak for Windows. But for Macs there are a few scenarios for developers:

* do nothing: the app cannot be notarised by Apple and users will get
warned the app is untrusted. There's an extra step in System Settings
that the user has to take to allow it. This is not difficult, but it
needs documenting. It only affects the first run.

* pay for an individual Apple Developer Program membership ($99 per
annum): this lets the developer submit it to Apple for notarisation, and users will no longer get a warning.

* figure out how to get a waiver for that program membership for the
Aranym *team* ($0 but there is some overhead as you have to be an
official (and US?) non-profit organisation): this lets the team submit
it to Apple for notarisation, and users will no longer get a warning.

Developers can notarise as many times per year as they want, so you'd
want to do this in an automated way for every build. I think Philipp's
done this, possibly with an individual membership.

Apple's notarisation system is meant to scan your code for "malicious content". Obviously you can choose to believe they really just want to
screw developers out of $99 every year.

I assume (but have no evidence) that the waiver option is aimed at open source projects. It would be interesting to find out what other open
source projects actually do.

In the current situation I have a lot of difficulties with the binaries.
Can you test *ARAnyM miniPack* <https://eureka.atari.org/miniPack.zip>
I hope that it runs correctly, but I'm not sure at all. Because the
binary was downloaded on GitHub, and there's issues with signature...

Thanks,

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 16/02/2025 16:00, Francois LE COAT wrote:

In the current situation I have a lot of difficulties with the binaries.
Can you test *ARAnyM miniPack* <https://eureka.atari.org/miniPack.zip>
I hope that it runs correctly, but I'm not sure at all. Because the
binary was downloaded on GitHub, and there's issues with signature...

It fails to open because it isn't notarised. The alert looks like:

"MacAranym" Not Opened

Apple could not verify "MacAranym" is free of malware that may harm your
Mac or compromise your privacy.

[Done] [Move to Bin]

If you hit Done, you can go to System Settings > Privacy and Security >
it has a button at the bottom letting you "Open Anyway".

It looks like it is signed OK, but the notarisation hasn't been attached ("stapled" in codesign terminology) to the app. Here's the output of
codesign against MacAranym.app and Sigil.app (which is a correctly
notarised and opensource app)

$ codesign -dvvv MacAranym.app
Executable=/Users/cjr/Downloads/miniPack 2/MacAranym.app/Contents/MacOS/MacAranym
Identifier=org.aranym.MacAranym.aranym
Format=app bundle with Mach-O universal (x86_64 arm64)
CodeDirectory v=20500 size=29383 flags=0x10000(runtime) hashes=907+7 location=embedded
Hash type=sha256 size=32
CandidateCDHash sha256=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de240 CandidateCDHashFull sha256=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de2409cf06649a29bac2c662a8717
Hash choices=sha256 CMSDigest=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de2409cf06649a29bac2c662a8717 CMSDigestType=2
CDHash=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de240
Signature size=8977
Authority=Developer ID Application: Philipp Donze (P8CC95REUG) Authority=Developer ID Certification Authority
Authority=Apple Root CA
Timestamp=17 Jan 2025 at 22:40:46
Info.plist entries=27
TeamIdentifier=P8CC95REUG
Runtime Version=14.5.0
Sealed Resources version=2 rules=13 files=7
Internal requirements count=1 size=220

$ codesign -dvvv /Applications/Sigil.app Executable=/Applications/Sigil.app/Contents/MacOS/Sigil Identifier=com.sigil-ebook.Sigil.app
Format=app bundle with Mach-O thin (arm64)
CodeDirectory v=20500 size=67717 flags=0x10000(runtime) hashes=2105+7 location=embedded
Hash type=sha256 size=32
CandidateCDHash sha256=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2 CandidateCDHashFull sha256=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2bc4c59b3a8a466575f913717
Hash choices=sha256 CMSDigest=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2bc4c59b3a8a466575f913717 CMSDigestType=2
CDHash=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2
Signature size=8979
Authority=Developer ID Application: Kevin Hendricks (2SMCVQU3CJ) Authority=Developer ID Certification Authority
Authority=Apple Root CA
Timestamp=31 Jan 2025 at 16:00:58
Notarization Ticket=stapled
Info.plist entries=17
TeamIdentifier=2SMCVQU3CJ
Runtime Version=14.5.0
Sealed Resources version=2 rules=13 files=374
Internal requirements count=1 size=188


--
Chris

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

In the current situation I have a lot of difficulties with the binaries.
Can you test *ARAnyM miniPack* <https://eureka.atari.org/miniPack.zip>
I hope that it runs correctly, but I'm not sure at all. Because the
binary was downloaded on GitHub, and there's issues with signature...

It fails to open because it isn't notarised. The alert looks like:

"MacAranym" Not Opened

Apple could not verify "MacAranym" is free of malware that may harm your
Mac or compromise your privacy.

[Done] [Move to Bin]

If you hit Done, you can go to System Settings > Privacy and Security >
it has a button at the bottom letting you "Open Anyway".

It looks like it is signed OK, but the notarisation hasn't been attached ("stapled" in codesign terminology) to the app. Here's the output of codesign against MacAranym.app and Sigil.app (which is a correctly
notarised and opensource app)

$ codesign -dvvv MacAranym.app
Executable=/Users/cjr/Downloads/miniPack 2/MacAranym.app/Contents/MacOS/MacAranym Identifier=org.aranym.MacAranym.aranym
Format=app bundle with Mach-O universal (x86_64 arm64)
CodeDirectory v=20500 size=29383 flags=0x10000(runtime) hashes=907+7 location=embedded
Hash type=sha256 size=32
CandidateCDHash sha256=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de240 CandidateCDHashFull sha256=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de2409cf06649a29bac2c662a8717
Hash choices=sha256 CMSDigest=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de2409cf06649a29bac2c662a8717 CMSDigestType=2
CDHash=2a4c13f1f6d1fa12f51b2623de564e41865de240
Signature size=8977
Authority=Developer ID Application: Philipp Donze (P8CC95REUG) Authority=Developer ID Certification Authority
Authority=Apple Root CA
Timestamp=17 Jan 2025 at 22:40:46
Info.plist entries=27
TeamIdentifier=P8CC95REUG
Runtime Version=14.5.0
Sealed Resources version=2 rules=13 files=7
Internal requirements count=1 size=220

$ codesign -dvvv /Applications/Sigil.app Executable=/Applications/Sigil.app/Contents/MacOS/Sigil Identifier=com.sigil-ebook.Sigil.app
Format=app bundle with Mach-O thin (arm64)
CodeDirectory v=20500 size=67717 flags=0x10000(runtime) hashes=2105+7 location=embedded
Hash type=sha256 size=32
CandidateCDHash sha256=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2 CandidateCDHashFull sha256=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2bc4c59b3a8a466575f913717
Hash choices=sha256 CMSDigest=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2bc4c59b3a8a466575f913717 CMSDigestType=2
CDHash=12161a2aa64d527d73f95367a1788ae6bdbb44f2
Signature size=8979
Authority=Developer ID Application: Kevin Hendricks (2SMCVQU3CJ) Authority=Developer ID Certification Authority
Authority=Apple Root CA
Timestamp=31 Jan 2025 at 16:00:58
Notarization Ticket=stapled
Info.plist entries=17
TeamIdentifier=2SMCVQU3CJ
Runtime Version=14.5.0
Sealed Resources version=2 rules=13 files=374
Internal requirements count=1 size=188

Well, GitHub is a Microsoft technology. They're not inclusive, nor
friendly with other hardware/software, noticeably with Apple... And
I'm not speaking about free software or ATARI computers, indeed!

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Francois LE COAT writes:

If DR/GEM was ported to ATARI VCS natively, that would make sense...
Eureka 2.12 could run natively with the ATARI VCS computer, 40 years
after the ATARI ST.

Here you can watch at Eureka 2.12 running under GNU/Linux Mageia...

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmzPWw1xxc0>

...40 years after ATARI ST. It's hosted with the ATARI (virtual) machine
Well Eureka 2.12 is not running natively, but performances are stunning!
And the machine could be ATARI VCS, if it was shipped outside the USA.

We're not speaking about an unattainable goal =)

Regards,

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Ridd writes:

Francois LE COAT wrote:

In the current situation I have a lot of difficulties with the binaries.
Can you test *ARAnyM miniPack* <https://eureka.atari.org/miniPack.zip>
I hope that it runs correctly, but I'm not sure at all. Because the
binary was downloaded on GitHub, and there's issues with signature...

It fails to open because it isn't notarised. The alert looks like:

"MacAranym" Not Opened

Apple could not verify "MacAranym" is free of malware that may harm your
Mac or compromise your privacy.

[Done] [Move to Bin]

If you hit Done, you can go to System Settings > Privacy and Security >
it has a button at the bottom letting you "Open Anyway".

It looks like it is signed OK, but the notarisation hasn't been attached ("stapled" in codesign terminology) to the app. Here's the output of codesign against MacAranym.app and Sigil.app (which is a correctly
notarised and opensource app)

...

Here is an example of plotting curves on a semi-logarithmic scale
with the GEM Eureka 2.12 software. Screen recording is performed
under macOS Catalina, with the GNU/GPL ATARI virtual machine: ARAnyM.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLfom-aOm0>

This includes obtaining ARAnyM miniPack and Eureka 2.12, and making
a demo under macOS...

The GNU/GPL ATARI virtual machine runs with Apple Silicon Mac =)

--
François LE COAT
Author of Eureka 2.12 (2D Graph Describer, 3D Modeller) https://eureka.atari.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"It looks quite like..."

Nice. :)


/\
Dark><Lord
\/

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ: Real Atari ST BBS! www.sfhqbbs.org (21:3/171.0)

Even though an arguement... or discussion. Its great to see this many
posts on the usenet. I am pretty sure these last 20 is more posting than
this group gets in a year!! :) Was great reading. No opinion though.
Other than real hardware I use Hatari and sometimes a Mister to play some games. Thats it.

Bikerbob

--- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
* Origin: STar Fleet HQ: Real Atari ST BBS! www.sfhqbbs.org (21:3/171.0)