XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
which aren't in the will.

2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
left.

If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
on my desk.)

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

Thanks a lot.

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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to 10.5.8.

If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

People will need FAR more information on these machines.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

--
M is for MAUDE who was swept out to sea
N is for NEVILLE who died of ennui

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

In article <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
which aren't in the will.

2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
left.

If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
on my desk.)

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

Thanks a lot.

Sounds like a dead screen with a "cloudy" and "worse" display.

The screen goes black because its power saving is set to either put the
screen to sleep and / or start the screen saver after X minutes of
inactivity. Moving the mouse is "activity" so the screen wakes up /
screen saver stops.

The row of icons along the bottom is the Dock (vaguely similar to
Windoze's Start bar) which shows icons of some of the applications
installed or running. The Dock can be set to "hide" when not needed -
it appears when the mouse cursor is moved near the bottom of the screen
and disappears when the mouse cursor is higher up the screen.

Mouse movement may be able to be sped up by going into the mouse System Preference options, but that's going to be difficult if you can't see
the screen properly.

The hard drives could be removed, but depending on the exact models,
it's a hassle and in newer iMac models you *REALLY* have to know what
you're doing to put it back together again (which in some cases
requires special glues, etc.), so not really advisable. Even if you
remove it, you'll need to put it into a same model iMac to easily use
it, although you can put it into an external case and plug it into any
newer Mac to see the content of normal documents. and probably import
emails.

Plugging in an external screen will again depend on the exact model,
but likely also require an adaptor of some sort.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

I believe he is talking model number not OS.
I suspect this is the suspect: <http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to 10.5.8.

If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

People will need FAR more information on these machines.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
mirroring via mini-VGA.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

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On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

I'm making progress on this part.

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter
This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so. $29 from
Apple. As little as 3 on ebay inc. shipping. Is this what I want: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVI-to-VGA-Monitor-Video-convertor-adapter-Cable-For-Apple-Macbook-/151904796412?hash=item235e3b3efc:g:ptAAAOSwf-VWYSgL

Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
turn something on inside?

BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
CD drive!

I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
remembered that the monitor is no good.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:27:41 -0000 (UTC), Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

Is it a white base with an articulated arm?

Yes. I should have said that.

But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

I'll go check tomorrow night if he landlady will let me come.

The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to >10.5.8.

If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

Right! So what year!

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

People will need FAR more information on these machines.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

This page doesn't go all the way back to 15", but thanks anyhow, and
we've setttled the model.

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

Okay.

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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:25:56 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

I believe he is talking model number not OS.
I suspect this is the suspect: ><http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

Well, one size smaller than that. I also forgot to tell you the
screen size. I'm a little panicky. Now that his brother is done, the
landlady has hired someone to clean the place out Sunday morning, and
I can't visit until Saturday night at the earliest.

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
mirroring via mini-VGA.

Is mini-vga the same as mini-display ports? or iow, is this what I
need to mirror, very similar to the other ebay item I gave in another
post: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Displayport-Display-Port-To-VGA-adapter-Cable-for-Apple-Macbook-PC-M-VGA-OB-/281791697169?hash=item419c181111:g:unIAAOSwyQtV6ooN

Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
file files.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

I'm making progress on this part.

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

No, it is an external adpater that Apple sold separately, which was discontinued a few years ago.

The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
this above it: |[]|

Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
other end.

It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
external one should work well enough.

Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so.

No, that's two generations too new: in later models Apple moved from
Mini-VGA to Mini-DVI (around 2006), then Mini-DisplayPort (around 2009).
Of the three, only Mini-DisplayPort has been reasonably widely adopted
outside Apple products, as Apple donated it to the DisplayPort standard,
and it is also used by Intel's Thunderbolt.

Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
turn something on inside?

Given the right Mini-VGA adapter, plug it in and it will automatically
mirror.

With later models that were able to support an independent display, it
would defalut to separate display mode, and you'd use a keyboard
shortcut, shortcut menu or System Preferences to change the display configuration to mirrored.

BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
CD drive!

I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
remembered that the monitor is no good.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

I'm making progress on this part.

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so. $29 from
Apple. As little as 3 on ebay inc. shipping. Is this what I want:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVI-to-VGA-Monitor-Video-convertor-adapter-Cable-
For-Apple-Macbook-/151904796412?hash=item235e3b3efc:g:ptAAAOSwf-VWYSgL

Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
turn something on inside?

It will be a cable, probably with a small box, that plugs into one of
the ports on the back of the domed base. If it's purely mirroring, then
it will probably work without any changes to the system.

BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
CD drive!

At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to
someone who knows what they're doing.

I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
remembered that the monitor is no good.

If the screen is dead, then it's only worth selling to someone who
wants parts. Realistically the amount you get will be peanuts and it's
far easier to simply take the hard drive out and bin the rest.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
file files.

A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver
software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the
files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
(at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
...).

Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
the file formats).

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In message <2016040121255630105-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

I believe he is talking model number not OS.
I suspect this is the suspect: <http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

Could be, I forgot that the G4 iMacs where "PowerMac" and not "iMac"
(and there is no iMac6,3).

He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
mirroring via mini-VGA.

Possibly, depending on what he has available to read those drives.


--
You Bastard was thinking: ...Delta squared. Thus, dimensional pressure k
will result in a ninety-degree transformation in Chi(16/x/pu)t for a
K-bundle of any three invariables. Or four minutes, plus or minus ten seconds... The camel looked down at the great pads of his feet. Let
speed equal gallop. --Pyramids

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XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

Salut micky

In article <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>,
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

yes, was built between November 2003 and July 2004: iMac 20" USB 2.0)
Original OS: 10.3, max OS 10.5.8

At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
16, but I know he emailed me after that.

Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
line at the border.

OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
older or newer than the first one?

Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
bottom third of the screen?

There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
which aren't in the will.

2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
left.

If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
on my desk.)

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1

Ok, then they are about the same age

The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

Or is it just a cable?

It is a cable, but not the one linked. Rather one like these (you might
find a outlet in your country): <http://www.conrad.ch/ce/de/product/971926/APPLE-MINI-DVI-ZU-VGA-ADAPTER>

If you can't access the display control panel, an exernal monitor will
probably not do mirroring...

Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

Probably power saving comin in...

Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

If you can access the mouse control panel, yes.

I seee some possibilities
- FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac from
the 20"
- Swap the disk to the working iMac: <https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+G4+15-Inch+700+MHz+EMC+1873+Hard+Drive +Replacement/6670>
This is for a 15" model, 20" should be similar.
- What also could work: remove the hard disk from the 15" iMac. Find an external FireWire enclosure which can handle PATA disks and put the disk
in. Connect the enclosure with a FireWire 400 cable to the 20" iMac and
start it from the external disk (press the Option key during boot)

Cheers
Andreas

--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:andreas@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

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In message <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>
Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:25:56 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 >>>> years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town >>>> now and there are two Imacs.

One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was? >>>

Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

I believe he is talking model number not OS.
I suspect this is the suspect: >><http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

Well, one size smaller than that. I also forgot to tell you the
screen size. I'm a little panicky. Now that his brother is done, the landlady has hired someone to clean the place out Sunday morning, and
I can't visit until Saturday night at the earliest.

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or >>hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
mirroring via mini-VGA.

Is mini-vga the same as mini-display ports?

No. In no way similar.

Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
file files.

There are programs for Windows that will read a Mac drive. MacDrive
might be the name of one.

--
Dinner will be ready when the smoke alarm goes off.

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In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:45:59 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
Manual
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF >>
The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?
.....
Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
turn something on inside?

It will be a cable, probably with a small box, that plugs into one of
the ports on the back of the domed base. If it's purely mirroring, then
it will probably work without any changes to the system.

Great.

BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
CD drive!

At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to
someone who knows what they're doing.

But then how will I learn? And who will pay him?

I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
remembered that the monitor is no good.

If the screen is dead, then it's only worth selling to someone who
wants parts. Realistically the amount you get will be peanuts and it's
far easier to simply take the hard drive out and bin the rest.

Okay, that sounds fine.

I thought he had bought a brand new Mac desktop, because he had a laptop
and didn't like using it all the time, but we didn't find it. But there
was something in a box, the size of a laptop. His brother might have
taken it before he left, but probably only if he knows someone who wants
a Mac. If it's still there, that will be worth selling. Whatever he
bought recently, he complained that he hadn't had time to start using
it, and it's still in the box so it won't have any email, I'm sure.

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In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:46:21 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
file files.

A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver
software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the
files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
(at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
...).

Well how about this? Instead of continuing to try to log into his
account, I change everything to my account, and forward all the
important email and send all the important files as attachments?

To his brother, maybe some of it to myself, and some to an organization
he was helping to run (they're the ones who can use the files).

Won't the email be converted automatically?

If the attached files will be illegible to a PC, I could get something
to convert them first to PDF. Or maybe to plain text???? Is Mac
plain text the same as PC plain text?

Come to think of it, for a few months a couple years ago, he used to
send me, as attachments, letters he mailed out on occasion to
organization members, for me to edit a little better, and I would send
them back to him, and he would mail them. So there must be some level
of interlegibility. I don't remember why he couldn't finish
editing them (some technical reason) but when I look at them again, and
the emails he sent them with, I probably will. (This is why I save all
my email except spam and a little more.)

Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
the file formats).

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On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:36:39 +1300, in comp.sys.mac.system you wrote:

Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
give me your opinion on that.)

I'm making progress on this part.

It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
Manual
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF >>
The manual shows "VGA output
Connect an external
monitor for video
mirroring using the
Apple VGA adapter
(available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

No, it is an external adpater that Apple sold separately, which was >discontinued a few years ago.

To explain myself, though you didn't ask, in PC's they use the term
display adapter to mean... the video card I guess. I've never been sure.
And there is also the network adapter, which is the network card. Or the corresponding circuit.

(And then they use "adapter" for the little black boxes that plug into
the wall and give out 6v, etc. I never liked that usage.)

I think adapter should be reserved for cords and connectors like we're
talking about here.

The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
this above it: |[]|

I see it.

Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
other end.

It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

Cheap enough.

An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the >display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
external one should work well enough.

The bottom 2/3rds sometimes look like a map of Indonesia or somewhere
with many islands. Or sometimes white with a bunch of vertical lines
of different colors and different widths. One time only, for only 10
seconds, two icons at the bottom could be seen dimly, but I couldnt' get
the cursor there fast enough to click. Well, I could have clicked there anyhow, but I can't see the cursor except when it's in the top third,
and it moves so slowly that would make it hard to know where it was.

IOW, I'm sure it's the LCD panel. I just have to make room for an lcd
monitor. I have one I haven't started using yet.

Or is it just a cable?
http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter >> This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so.

No, that's two generations too new: in later models Apple moved from
Mini-VGA to Mini-DVI (around 2006),

One of the ebay items I posted last night was that, "Mini DVI to VGA
Monitor" and yet I didn't notice "DVI". Hard to believe.

then Mini-DisplayPort (around 2009).

The other ebay item was "Mini Displayport Display Port To VGA adapter
Cable " and I was so happy to find it, Plus the search page said the
item expired in one hour. Since it was only $4 (inc. shipping) I was
tempted to buy it -- I'm glad I didn't --, rather than hope it would be relisted. But the auction page itself said nothing about expiring in an
hour. The DVI page above was supposed to expire in 2 hours, but again,
the page itself said nothing about that. I would search again to see
if what it says on the search page about expiration, but I forget what I searched on.

Of the three, only Mini-DisplayPort has been reasonably widely adopted >outside Apple products, as Apple donated it to the DisplayPort standard,

I guess that will do it.

and it is also used by Intel's Thunderbolt.

I read a little about Thunderbolt last night.

Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
turn something on inside?

Given the right Mini-VGA adapter, plug it in and it will automatically >mirror.

Great.

With later models that were able to support an independent display, it
would defalut to separate display mode, and you'd use a keyboard
shortcut, shortcut menu or System Preferences to change the display >configuration to mirrored.

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In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:36:39 +1300, dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:

The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
this above it: |[]|

Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
other end.

It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

I'm going to get this. Thanks.

BTW, some of you Apple guys are tough judges. The two 3-star raters
say it's "exactly what I needed" or "shipped great" but still only gave
it 3 stars. Two of the three 4-star raters say it's great or works
perfectly, but only gave it 4 stars. Even the one-star guy said "Did
not fit my MacBook Pro. Prompt refund." He probably doesn't want to
believe it was his fault, but it probably was and they should get 2 or 3
stars for the prompt refund alone. (Maybe it cost a lot more than $1
when he had bought it, although the review was last Dec. 17.)

Another interesting guy wanted to use this to go from mini-VGA to VGA
and another adapter to go to HDMI to watch on the new tv!!! He sounds
like me. Apparently that may or may not work.

An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the >display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
external one should work well enough.

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In article <8k30gbl1421pa8hvv3ctj8rs4rfiv4m6me@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:45:59 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
CD drive!

At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to >someone who knows what they're doing.

But then how will I learn? And who will pay him?

If it's a one-off, then you don't need to learn.

Even if you plan to start doing things with Macs, those G4 domes are
old ("obsolete" in Apple's terms) and the new ones are completely
different ... and *much* less accessible internally.

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In article <i040gbtm1n8qm6fgichs665kahad1dv7kl@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:46:21 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
file files.

A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver >software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the >files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
(at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
...).

Well how about this? Instead of continuing to try to log into his
account, I change everything to my account, and forward all the
important email and send all the important files as attachments?

To his brother, maybe some of it to myself, and some to an organization
he was helping to run (they're the ones who can use the files).

Won't the email be converted automatically?

Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
(even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

As long as you can get the Mac working, you can of course forward the
emails, or export them as plain text or PDFs. There's probably ways,
with extra effort, to export the emails in a format that can be
imported into Windows Outlook.

If the attached files will be illegible to a PC, I could get something
to convert them first to PDF. Or maybe to plain text???? Is Mac
plain text the same as PC plain text?

Again, as long as you can get the Mac working, it should be fairly easy
(if time consuming).

Mac OS X applications can easily create PDFs directly from the Print
window, although it will depend on what version of OS X the Mac is
running and the application as to how well that works - old versions
and some applications have a nasty habit of creating PDFs that use only
images (any text is turned into an image, meaning it's not easily
extractable as text).

Some applications will be able to save to other formats. AppleWorks,
for example, can save its text documents as Microsoft Word documents
and its spreadsheet documents as Microsoft Excel documents - although
depending on the complexity of the documents, some bits may be lost or
the Word document a bit messy.

Plain text is plain text ... most modern computer applications can
handle either "Mac" or "Windows" format. Even if they can't, at worst
you'll probably get some garbage characters and perhaps paragraphs not separated properly.

It all depends on what applications were being used and what types of
documents created. Maybe he was using Mac Outlook for emails instead of
Mac Mail, for example, and Mac Word for wordprocessing.

The biggest cross-platform conversion issue is usually databases - if
he used one. There's no version of Microsoft Access for Macs and
there's no database application I've come across that can export the
entire database (data and structure) as an Access document. Best you
can do is export the data to a text file and import that into a newly
created Windows database. If he had databases created in FileMaker Pro,
then there is a Windows version of that, which makes transferring the
databases very easy.

Come to think of it, for a few months a couple years ago, he used to
send me, as attachments, letters he mailed out on occasion to
organization members, for me to edit a little better, and I would send
them back to him, and he would mail them. So there must be some level
of interlegibility. I don't remember why he couldn't finish editing them (some technical reason) but when I look at them again, and
the emails he sent them with, I probably will. (This is why I save all
my email except spam and a little more.)

If he sent you Microsoft Word documents which you then re-saved in the
silly new .docx format, then it's very possible he couldn't open them -
old versions of Microsoft Word (whether on Mac or Windows) can't open
.docx files. Same with the new Excel .xlsx and Powerpoint .pptx
formats.

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I second this:

I seee some possibilities

- FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac from
the 20"<<<
This is by far the easiest solution. Since the place is being cleared out Sunday morning and this is Saturday night . . . take these Macs to your place, along with every Apple accessory AND ESPECIALLY A REAL APPLE USB KEYBOARD with you--other USB
keyboards do not send the special boot commands to PowerMacs reliably, you are going to need an APPLE keyboard! For this Firewire boot option, you hold down the Option key + "T" key. You will notice that Windows keyboards do not have an "Option" key!
You will also need a Firewire cable; most users of PowerMac G3 and G4 computers will have one laying around, otherwise you're headed for Amazon, eBay, or your local Goodwill store.
If you need to recover the data for future use, you probably should connect a USB external hard drive to the host computer you are booting the broken one from so that you can copy all data from both computers. It will have to be formatted either FAT32
using the Mac (for some reason, I often had compatibility problems with drives formatted FAT32 on PC not working on PC after being written to by a Mac, but not vis-versa) or formatted on the Mac for the Apple-proprietary HFS+ either way you'll be using
Apple Disk Utility.
Fortunately, Apple's in-built Help files are usually actually helpful, though not to the wonderful degree they were pre-OS X.

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On 04-01-2016 22:27, Lewis wrote:

Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

Better yet, take it to an Apple store.

If none near, take it to a Mac user. There are probably others within
twenty miles. I realize they'll be hard to find, but if you ask ten
people, you'll either find some or find people who know some.

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On 04-02-2016 00:46, Your Name wrote:

Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
the file formats).

Target Disk Mode

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On 04-02-2016 17:19, Your Name wrote:

Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
(even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

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In article <nds2ce$stv$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Happy.Hobo
<Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:

On 04-02-2016 17:19, Your Name wrote:

Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
(even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

Mail stores messages in a .mbox file - I don't know how "standard" that
is. You can probably convert them or import them to other email
application formats.

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On 2016-04-03, Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:

Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

You're correct; at least up through Yosemite (I don't have any El Cap
machines myself yet), Apple Mail uses one of two reasonably-decent
formats for storing messages on disk.

In recent versions (10.4 and later, I think?), messages are stored
inside ~/Library/Mail, in subfolders named something like
"Foldername.mbox", and then each message is an ".emlx" file inside
that (or maybe in a 'Messages' subfolder). At any rate, they're
basically just text files once you dig down to the level of actual
messages. Converting to various other email-storage formats is pretty straightforward. [1]

Older versions of Mail (from the Public Beta through 10.3, IIRC) used one-file-per-mailbox formats similar to Unix "mbox" spool files. [2]
Eudora and various other MUAs read them without a problem and without
any conversion necessary.

It wouldn't be a major effort at all to grab all the saved email off
of a hard drive and convert it to mbox files, PSTs, or some other
format of choice. The HFS disk formatting is likely to be more of a
problem than the email storage format on disk (and it's not that much
of a problem, just an annoyance really).

Although if the system is running, another potentially-easier route is
just to add a new Gmail (or other IMAP-capable mail provider) account,
and copy the messages up via IMAP to the new account, then sync them
down to another machine. But since it sounds like the system in
question is on its last legs anyway, I wouldn't muck with it.

Kadin


[1]: I'm partial to "emlxconvert", which converts to standard mbox /
spoolfile format. <http://www.cosmicsoft.net/emlxconvert.html>
From mbox, going to PST or other formats is easy.

[2]: For historical interest, the differences between Apple Mail 1.x
(10.3 and earlier) and 2.x (10.4+):
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1382793?tstart=0>

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By the way, check eBay expired auctions and the Google Group LEM Swap to establish a baseline value for these, even as parts machines. The "lamp" PowerMacs also have substantial market with PC moders who put Mini-ITX or Micro-ITX motherboard in the base
and replace the LCD panel with a current-production model. There's quite a demand for the surviving units, even as parts.

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On 2016-04-03, dg <david.goodnow@gmail.com> wrote:

I second this:

I seee some possibilities

- FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac
from the 20"<<< This is by far the easiest solution.

Yep.

Since the place is being cleared out Sunday morning and this is
Saturday night . . . take these Macs to your place, along with every
Apple accessory AND ESPECIALLY A REAL APPLE USB KEYBOARD with
you--other USB keyboards do not send the special boot commands to
PowerMacs reliably, you are going to need an APPLE keyboard! For this Firewire boot option, you hold down the Option key + "T" key. You
will notice that Windows keyboards do not have an "Option" key!

No, the Option key is not required - just hold down the T key while
booting. Most any USB keyboard will work:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201462>

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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