• iigs repair

    From Logan T@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 20 13:00:46 2022
    hello

    I recently came in contact with a iigs and was curious if anyone had a circuit layout or schematic diagram for recapping. sorry for my ignorance because this is my first repair. the model of psu is astec 6990126. i believe my motherboard is a Rom3. also
    could someone give an opinion whether or not I should tear into the apple color rgb crt monitor. I have no experience with those either but from what I've saw people usually test them and then fix accordingly. I haven't actually plugged the monitor or
    the iigs for fear of burning the power supply or monitor circuit boards.

    thanks.

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  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Logan T on Fri Jan 21 02:42:14 2022
    Logan T wrote:

    them and then fix accordingly. I haven't actually plugged the monitor or
    the iigs for fear of burning the power supply or monitor circuit boards.


    Unless it was stored for many years in some hostile environment, I think
    you'll find the Apple IIgs is among the most reliable Apple II models ever produced, especially the ROM3 which you have.

    Here is a site with a lot of documentation and other info: http://www.apple-iigs.info/home.php

    Here are schematics for ROM 3: https://downloads.reactivemicro.com/Apple%20II%20Items/Hardware/IIgs/Schematic/

    The book mentioned in my signature below has a lot of general information
    about the entire Apple II family. It doesn't have a lot of hardware repair information, but you might find it a good source for many other aspects of
    the Apple II.

    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

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  • From Brian J. Bernstein@21:1/5 to D Finnigan on Fri Jan 21 05:55:32 2022
    On Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 9:42:16 PM UTC-5, D Finnigan wrote:
    Logan T wrote:

    them and then fix accordingly. I haven't actually plugged the monitor or the iigs for fear of burning the power supply or monitor circuit boards.

    Unless it was stored for many years in some hostile environment, I think you'll find the Apple IIgs is among the most reliable Apple II models ever produced, especially the ROM3 which you have.

    Unlike machines from the 90's or later, I've never had to re-cap an Apple II let alone a IIgs. The worst thing I've seen happen is that the RIFA blows in the power supply which lets out some awful smoke, but the machine still works without it (the
    purpose is to reduce radio interference). The RIFA caps are easy enough to replace, though if you're looking for a more complete solution, you can buy brand new replacement power supplies from Reactive Micro.

    Don't tear the machine apart until something goes wrong with it. However, make sure that the battery is in good condition - the ROM 03 has a socketed battery whereas earlier ones were soldered barrels which needed to be clipped.

    Good luck!

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  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@21:1/5 to Logan T on Fri Jan 21 20:15:41 2022
    Logan T <logan07night@gmail.com> wrote:
    I recently came in contact with a iigs and was curious if anyone had a circuit layout or schematic diagram for recapping. sorry for my ignorance because this is my first repair. the model of psu is astec 6990126. i believe my motherboard is a Rom3.

    Are you sure it needs recapping? The most I've needed to do to a IIGS motherboard is replace the dead battery. If it's a ROM 3, it's easily
    replaced with a 1/2 AA lithium primary battery, such as this:

    https://amzn.to/3GQUwB3

    If it's a ROM 01, you'll need to cut out the original hardwired battery.
    You can then put in a holder to facilitate easier replacement in the future, such as this one that takes the same 1/2 AAs that the ROM 3 uses:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3407875

    If it's a dead power supply (you didn't say if it's the motherboard or the power supply), my understanding is that it's the line-filter capacitors (yellowish, rectangular, with foil wrapped up inside) that tend to go bad if anything goes bad. I think there's one that'll keep the supply from firing
    up if it goes bad; removing it or replacing it is supposed to get things working again.

    As for the electrolytics, these power supplies were built ~20 years before counterfeit electrolytic capacitors were even a thing, so unless you've confirmed that they're leaking or the power supply is not working, I would
    be inclined to leave them alone.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From Logan T@21:1/5 to sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us on Fri Jan 21 14:51:42 2022
    On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 2:15:43 PM UTC-6, sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    Logan T <logan0...@gmail.com> wrote:
    I recently came in contact with a iigs and was curious if anyone had a circuit layout or schematic diagram for recapping. sorry for my ignorance because this is my first repair. the model of psu is astec 6990126. i believe my motherboard is a Rom3.
    Are you sure it needs recapping? The most I've needed to do to a IIGS motherboard is replace the dead battery. If it's a ROM 3, it's easily replaced with a 1/2 AA lithium primary battery, such as this:

    https://amzn.to/3GQUwB3

    If it's a ROM 01, you'll need to cut out the original hardwired battery.
    You can then put in a holder to facilitate easier replacement in the future, such as this one that takes the same 1/2 AAs that the ROM 3 uses:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3407875

    If it's a dead power supply (you didn't say if it's the motherboard or the power supply), my understanding is that it's the line-filter capacitors (yellowish, rectangular, with foil wrapped up inside) that tend to go bad if anything goes bad. I think there's one that'll keep the supply from firing
    up if it goes bad; removing it or replacing it is supposed to get things working again.

    As for the electrolytics, these power supplies were built ~20 years before counterfeit electrolytic capacitors were even a thing, so unless you've confirmed that they're leaking or the power supply is not working, I would
    be inclined to leave them alone.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From Logan T@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 15:15:23 2022
    On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 2:15:43 PM UTC-6, wrote
    Logan T wrote:
    I recently came in contact with a iigs and was curious if anyone had a circuit layout or schematic diagram for recapping. sorry for my ignorance because this is my first repair. the model of psu is astec 6990126. i believe my motherboard is a Rom3.
    Are you sure it needs recapping? The most I've needed to do to a IIGS motherboard is replace the dead battery. If it's a ROM 3, it's easily replaced with a 1/2 AA lithium primary battery, such as this:

    https://amzn.to/3GQUwB3

    If it's a ROM 01, you'll need to cut out the original hardwired battery.
    You can then put in a holder to facilitate easier replacement in the future, such as this one that takes the same 1/2 AAs that the ROM 3 uses:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3407875

    If it's a dead power supply (you didn't say if it's the motherboard or the power supply), my understanding is that it's the line-filter capacitors (yellowish, rectangular, with foil wrapped up inside) that tend to go bad if anything goes bad. I think there's one that'll keep the supply from firing up if it goes bad; removing it or replacing it is supposed to get things working again.

    As for the electrolytics, these power supplies were built ~20 years before counterfeit electrolytic capacitors were even a thing, so unless you've confirmed that they're leaking or the power supply is not working, I would be inclined to leave them alone.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
    hello
    thanks everyone for tips and info. my iigs is sitting in front of me and I'm very new to all this.
    I'm not sure if I replied to all the above I hit post and it disappeared so forgive me if that happened.
    but another question I had was wether anyone had some options on floppy disk writing software for windows preferably about win7 and up. I am currently running windows but if anyone also has some Linux software that's also welcome, ease be aware I'm not
    experienced in command line yet but irrelevant. this way I would be able to download disk or such images for my iigs from web archives and write them to blanks instead of finding and buying prewritten software or programs from eBay or such. hope my idea
    is clear here
    thanks

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  • From Mike Spangler@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 17:39:01 2022
    You shouldn't have to recap anything on the motherboard. Inside the PSU the Dreaded RIFA capacitors will blow eventually. Not all GS PSU have RIFA filter capacitors though. They are half inch long rectangles near the AC input lines. If they look like
    clear epoxy on the outside, and they are cracked, delete them immediately.

    There is a debate about whether you really need to replace them or not. New ones are cheap. But the power supply will work without them at the cost of more electrical noise, and maybe making the rest of the PSU more susceptible to line noise coming in.

    The other capacitor that died on me (but on only one PSU) is a 220 mF in the middle of the circuit board. That was a standard electrolytic, and it was obviously dead. The label was just sitting there and goo had leaked out. A good clean up and
    replacement and it worked fine.

    Youtube has several videos about recapping things, don't get too carried away. The little .47 uf surface mount electrolytic capacitors used on many old macs are very problematic now. The radial and axial capacitors used on Apple II's seem to be more
    robust.

    But the RIFA caps will die, and it stinks to high heaven when they do. And they make a mess.

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  • From Logan T@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 19:21:02 2022
    my rifa according to what u said looks like it might be bad. for what I am going to use this iigs for, at least to start with is just learning the basics, so I believe electrical noise probably wouldn't hurt me unless it actually is bad enuf to damage
    the iigs motherboard which I doubt. ok Im acting like I know how psus work but I don't think that that will be a problem. ther is a big black 330uf in the center on my psu, understandably ther are different models of psus used so I'm not sure if this is
    what you are referring to in "is a 220mf"but this one doesn't look leaking. in fact all the caps look all right to my knowledge. I want to boot up as soon as possible and let u all know my results

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  • From Michael J. Mahon@21:1/5 to Logan T on Wed Jan 26 01:19:58 2022
    Logan T <logan07night@gmail.com> wrote:
    my rifa according to what u said looks like it might be bad. for what I
    am going to use this iigs for, at least to start with is just learning
    the basics, so I believe electrical noise probably wouldn't hurt me
    unless it actually is bad enuf to damage the iigs motherboard which I
    doubt. ok Im acting like I know how psus work but I don't think that that will be a problem. ther is a big black 330uf in the center on my psu, understandably ther are different models of psus used so I'm not sure if
    this is what you are referring to in "is a 220mf"but this one doesn't
    look leaking. in fact all the caps look all right to my knowledge. I want
    to boot up as soon as possible and let u all know my results


    Don’t re-cap it. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

    What folks are referring to as “the RIFA cap” is an “X2” type of capacitor
    designed to go across the AC line to attenuate RF noise, both incoming and outgoing, and incoming spikes. Its failure mode is shorting, followed milliseconds later by rupture and emission of a revolting vapor. If you
    can stand to be within a foot of your power supply, your line filter
    capacitor is fine.

    Wholesale capacitor replacement without any demonstrated need is a peculiar superstition that is mystifying to electronic technicians.

    --
    -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

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  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@21:1/5 to Michael J. Mahon on Wed Jan 26 20:06:47 2022
    Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
    Wholesale capacitor replacement without any demonstrated need is a peculiar superstition that is mystifying to electronic technicians.

    I have a 70-year-old RCA AM radio that I went through maybe 25 or so years
    ago and replaced all of the waxed paper capacitors with metalized film capacitors, as those are a known point of failure for devices that use them.
    I don't recall if it used any mica capacitors, but if it did, I would've replaced them as well because you might as well while you're in there.
    There was also a two-part electrolytic capacitor that clearly wasn't working (someone else had hacked in two separate capacitors, one of which had a
    loose lead flapping in the breeze), and one or two tubes tested weak.

    These changes turned a non-working radio into a radio that still works
    today, and whose only likely failure mode at this point is a tube failure.

    Shotgun capacitor replacement as a practice may have come from replacing classes of parts known to be troublesome, like paper-dielectric capacitors.
    It might not always be appropriate for newer equipment, especially if it's known to be in good working order.

    --
    _/_
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    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From Michael J. Mahon@21:1/5 to scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us on Fri Jan 28 02:30:55 2022
    <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
    Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
    Wholesale capacitor replacement without any demonstrated need is a peculiar >> superstition that is mystifying to electronic technicians.

    I have a 70-year-old RCA AM radio that I went through maybe 25 or so years ago and replaced all of the waxed paper capacitors with metalized film capacitors, as those are a known point of failure for devices that use them. I don't recall if it used any mica capacitors, but if it did, I would've replaced them as well because you might as well while you're in there.
    There was also a two-part electrolytic capacitor that clearly wasn't working (someone else had hacked in two separate capacitors, one of which had a
    loose lead flapping in the breeze), and one or two tubes tested weak.

    These changes turned a non-working radio into a radio that still works
    today, and whose only likely failure mode at this point is a tube failure.

    Shotgun capacitor replacement as a practice may have come from replacing classes of parts known to be troublesome, like paper-dielectric capacitors. It might not always be appropriate for newer equipment, especially if it's known to be in good working order.


    I certainly agree, Scott, for older (often vacuum tube) equipment. ;-)

    I was referring to the emerging habit of treating 1980+ equipment like
    1935+ equipment.

    Nice work restoring your radio—a standard AC/DC 5-tube superhet, no doubt. The paper capacitors were a leakage problem even in their day! And there
    are two small mica capacitors in each IF transformer, sharing a single
    sliver of mica. And that was a troublesome design flaw: in humid
    conditions, dust and other contaminants would accumulate on the mica and
    create a leakage path from the plate side of the transformer and the grid
    side of the following stage, disabling the AGC and making the radio unlistenable.

    I’d expect most other mica caps to be quite reliable, as long as they are sealed and uncontaminated.

    --
    -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

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