On Tue, 2023-11-14 at 09:43 -0500, bill wrote:

Source management is usually handled by one single program, even on
most systems today. Be that cvs, svn, git or whatever.

And have you ever looked at find under Unix? That's a swiss army
knife if you ever saw one...

Do you mean Unix find or Gnu find?  Gnu people lost track of the Unix Paradigm  long ago.

I'd have loved to have grep on VMS. I had to keep lookign through all
my directories to find what I needed. Does VMS have anything like this?

Many thanks,
Alex
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 21:34 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

But systemd always comes to my mind...

I try not to let it <shudder> - anyway that's a Linux thing
not seen on any other unix (it's one reason I tend to avoid Linux). Apparently it's not even remotely portable.

I've banned systemd from all my Linux systems. Some things should not
exist. This is one of them.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 21:34 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

But systemd always comes to my mind...

        I try not to let it <shudder> - anyway that's a Linux thing not seen on any other unix (it's one reason I tend to avoid Linux). Apparently it's not even remotely portable.

I've banned systemd from all my Linux systems. Some things should not
exist. This is one of them.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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On 11/15/23 6:55 PM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:

On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 21:34 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

But systemd always comes to my mind...

I try not to let it <shudder> - anyway that's a Linux thing
not seen on any other unix (it's one reason I tend to avoid Linux).
Apparently it's not even remotely portable.

I've banned systemd from all my Linux systems. Some things should not
exist. This is one of them.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Now, now .... systemd *does* have some good
uses. The downside is that how/what it does
is a bit ... well ... complicated. Not AS bad
as the Winders registry, but getting there.

I like it because it'll monitor/restart daemons
and start them at the right phase of things. Sure,
you CAN do that all yourself, but, now, WHY ?

OTOH I'll not knock those who stick with the old
methods - those work too and are WELL documented
and versatile.

These are two APPROACHES to a number of common
issues. Neither is 'evil', neither is 'wrong'.

As for Linux/Unix though - THE issue is the
"library version problem". I've seen NO good
fixes for that. It's becoming a serious prob.
I think it's the reason we're seeing more and
more apps appearing as executables rather than
as typical linix/unix "packages/ports".

Hate to say it, but I
*encourage* this - after an experience trying
to install an alt version of FFMPEG, the
"requires" tree was just TOO damned much, TOO
damned destructive. Gimme something compiled
with all it needs built right in rather than
trying to compile from scratch with no slack
in *exactly* what it expects to be co-installed.

In this respect Winders IS actually "better".
Hell, through XP/Vista I could still run ANCIENT
apps, No Problem. The main prob became not
Winders, but Intel dropping 8/16

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On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:13:21 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

Now, now .... systemd *does* have some good
uses. The downside is that how/what it does
is a bit ... well ... complicated. Not AS bad
as the Winders registry, but getting there.

I like it because it'll monitor/restart daemons
and start them at the right phase of things. Sure,
you CAN do that all yourself, but, now, WHY ?

BSD rc plus daemontools does everything I have ever needed in that regard - granted SysV rc is a mess.

As for Linux/Unix though - THE issue is the
"library version problem". I've seen NO good
fixes for that. It's becoming a serious prob.

FreeBSD ports and NetBSD pkgsrc both work well. I've not had a
library version issue in a *long* time - except at work where I have to
deal with Linux.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

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On Thu, 2023-11-16 at 01:13 -0500, 56d.1152 wrote:

   As for Linux/Unix though - THE issue is the
   "library version problem". I've seen NO good
   fixes for that. It's becoming a serious prob.
   I think it's the reason we're seeing more and
   more apps appearing as executables rather than
   as typical linix/unix "packages/ports".

These are solved issues for me personally since my distro is Gentoo.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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On Thu, 2023-11-16 at 11:38 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

Systemd will be fine now Poettering has finished pottering with it,
got

        It's never going to be portable to anything but Linux, that's enough to write it off for me.

IATWP.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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On 2023-11-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:13:21 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

Now, now .... systemd *does* have some good
uses. The downside is that how/what it does
is a bit ... well ... complicated. Not AS bad
as the Winders registry, but getting there.

I like it because it'll monitor/restart daemons
and start them at the right phase of things. Sure,
you CAN do that all yourself, but, now, WHY ?

BSD rc plus daemontools does everything I have ever needed in that regard - granted SysV rc is a mess.

A decade or so ago, a program called 'monit' handled monitoring
and restarting of daemons quite nicely. However, I don't know
whether it's still maintained.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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On 17 Nov 2023 03:51:49 GMT
Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote:

A decade or so ago, a program called 'monit' handled monitoring
and restarting of daemons quite nicely. However, I don't know
whether it's still maintained.

monit 5.3.3 released Feb 2023 is in FreeBSD ports. So yes it is
still maintained and quite popular.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

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In article <20231119224712.286e6fc31b6aabe1dc9b2d36@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 16:33:38 -0500
Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

On 11/18/2023 3:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 01:16:41 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

Big banks/biz, govt/mil, need to err on the side of
security. Google can err on the side of high-volume.

Read this https://cloud.google.com/customers/revolut/

Revolut is one of the biggest banks.

Revolut is not a big bank. It is a pretty small bank.

Depends how you measure - by valuation ($33bn) it's bigger than
Deutsche Bank ($25bn).

That number for Revolut is two years out of date. It was good for one
day only and was strongly dependent on valuation by one investor who
has had a highly volatile investment record (SoftBank). Other
organizations who have to publicly value their stakes in Revolut put it
around half that number as of 2023 (and I'm not sure those valuations
are very safe).

On a total-assets basis, I believe Wikipedia shows it as not among the
100 largest banks in the world. You can check them for their source on
that.

Tom

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On 11/19/23 1:58 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 23:15:11 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

On 11/18/23 3:01 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 01:16:41 -0500
"56d.1152" <56d.1152@ztq9.net> wrote:

Big banks/biz, govt/mil, need to err on the side of
security. Google can err on the side of high-volume.

Read this https://cloud.google.com/customers/revolut/

Revolut is one of the biggest banks.

But for HOW LONG if it uses insecure methods ? :-)

They've been operating since 2015,

Many of the others since the 1800s :-)

had a data breach in 2022
resulting from a phishing attack which netted some personal data (about
5000 people) and a bug in their US payment system that let them (not their customers) lose $20m. Note carefully that neither of these was an infrastructure attack.

But a very relevant attack nevertheless. Doesn't matter
where you cast blame - damage done.

Pretty small potatoes compared to say the Capital One data breach
in 2019 that let 100 million credit card application details out or the JP Morgan Chase data breach of 83 million accounts or the Experian breach of
24 million customer's personal details or the ransomware attack on the US branch of ICBC (that's the world's biggest bank) or Flagstar bank which has had three data breaches in the last two years or the IBM Moveit data breach earlier this year that leaked medical records of 4.1 million people in Colerado. It's even small compared to Bank of Ireland's 22 data breaches
over six months leaking personal data of over 50,000 customers.

The way modern biz/banking likes to do things, NONE of
your stuff is very "secure". Basically I don't *do*
online banking - and WILL change banks if that becomes
their only option.

And yes, banks WILL find a way to blame YOU for any
losses ..... can you afford to go up against their
lawyers ???

Should you put up with this shit ???

Hey, it's your MONEY/SAVINGS/FUTURE/SECURITY ... do
not go gently ........

I'd say the evidence is that their security stacks up pretty well.

But only for a few years.

Wait until NK focuses ........

As anyone involved professionally in data security (hint that
includes me) knows the vast majority of compromises these days result from social engineering (various forms of phishing) not technical issues.

I agree. But MANY problems result from system-level
weaknesses too. You see it in the news almost weekly
now ... giant tech-biz, everything spilled.

Humans ARE the weakest link - fer sure - but not the
ONLY weakness. Alas those "other" weaknesses will be
able to do FAR more damage FAR more quickly.

Peruse this https://tech.co/news/data-breaches-updated-list if you don't believe me.

Stats are fine, but look at the next/next-next lines
on the vulnerabilities list ....

I'm old-school, not a fool, I know how badly systems-level
issues can damage.

Things like Docker/Kubernetes are great - but DO remember
their vulnerabilities too. It's all well documented.

NK knows this stuff too.

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