I'm new to thinkpads, got a T470.

1
The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy drives?

2
I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and plug
in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even with boot set
to 'Legacy Only'.

3
Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port and
onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The installation went OK
and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But when I boot the T470 with
this just installed system connected to a usb port, pressing 'Enter' for
the alternative temporary boot menu, that menu never shows up (until I
unplug the ssd from the usb port).

My preference would be to make #2 work if that's possible. Seems like
I'm missing some bits and pieces, any experience out there?

TIA

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Am 21.01.2024 um 22:23:42 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy
drives?

EFI/BIOS boot method is specific to the installed OS, not to the disk
itself.
Both/Hybrid means it can use both boot methods, but when selecting the
boot device, there might be 2 entries, one for EFI boot and one for
BIOS boot, per disk.

I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and
plug in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even with
boot set to 'Legacy Only'.

Is that a BIOS or UEFI boot method on the disk?

Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port and
onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The installation went
OK and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But when I boot the T470
with this just installed system connected to a usb port, pressing
'Enter' for the alternative temporary boot menu, that menu never
shows up (until I unplug the ssd from the usb port).

UEFI boot enabled?
Can you boot UEFI USB sticks?

Can you boot from the disk when connected to the SATA port?

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On 1/22/24 03:06, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 21.01.2024 um 22:23:42 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy
drives?

EFI/BIOS boot method is specific to the installed OS, not to the disk
itself.

I should reprase (never had anything to do with this EFI nonsense
before). I think I'm supposed to call the two methods EFI & Legacy, not
BIOS because they're bot h BIOS :-)

Both/Hybrid means it can use both boot methods, but when selecting the
boot device, there might be 2 entries, one for EFI boot and one for
BIOS boot, per disk.

This Lenovo T470 can be set for either method or BOTH in which case one
of the two has priority, I don't remember which one OR what priority
means in this case. Does it mean that the priority will boot IF one is
found?

I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and
plug in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even with
boot set to 'Legacy Only'.

Is that a BIOS or UEFI boot method on the disk?

My first attempt was with Legacy disks, I would have expected the BIOS
to handle either (in 2024).

Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port and
onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The installation went
OK and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But when I boot the T470
with this just installed system connected to a usb port, pressing
'Enter' for the alternative temporary boot menu, that menu never
shows up (until I unplug the ssd from the usb port).

The above was done entirely on the T470, I'm pretty confident that it
was properly set up to an EFI device.

This was not exactly this way. On trying again I let it take it's time
and sure enough after maybe 5 minutes the disk showed up in the
'alternative temporary' boot menu. Then when selected it took another 5
minutes for the move to fail and the previous menu to appear, exactly as
it had done with Legacy drives but the this failure beingh much much
slower. I 'think' the system is trying to 'catalogue' what's on the
drive and 1tb of 10 different OS'es on a slow usb interface takes time
to sniff?

UEFI boot enabled?

Tried enables as well as prioritary on BOTH.

Can you boot UEFI USB sticks?

Don't have any (yet)

Can you boot from the disk when connected to the SATA port?

I did'nt see a sata port on the T470 and I can't check because I just
returned it for another one with 1tb insertad of 256G.


NB. Earlier I tried to make an EFI bootable disk as I installed Suse
Tumbleweed but on my desktop system. Had already created a gpt disk with
an EFI partition formatted fat and labeled EFI but when I tried to lay
boot code on it accordingly in the installer by selecting "grub2-efi" as
the boot protocol the utility refused claiming that the machine I was
working on had been set for Legacy! Again in 2024 I would expect any
system to handle booting from OR creating either bootable disk.

Short of the long, I'll have my other one in a week or so but meanwhile
I'd like to nail this down. I think I can change my desktop death-star
to EFI, a bit of a chore but not impossible (Asus Crosshair-IV Formula).

My hunch is that if I change the desktop to EFI then I should be able to
just plug any of my disks into the T470 usb port and vice versa?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 22.01.2024 um 13:53:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

On 1/22/24 03:06, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 21.01.2024 um 22:23:42 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy
drives?

EFI/BIOS boot method is specific to the installed OS, not to the
disk itself.

I should reprase (never had anything to do with this EFI nonsense
before). I think I'm supposed to call the two methods EFI & Legacy,
not BIOS because they're bot h BIOS :-)

Technically, not. EFI is a successor to the BIOS.
Early implementations had a legacy mode emulation the BIOS behavior to
support booting OS that don't support EFI.
Current motherboards don't have that anymore.

Both/Hybrid means it can use both boot methods, but when selecting
the boot device, there might be 2 entries, one for EFI boot and one
for BIOS boot, per disk.

This Lenovo T470 can be set for either method or BOTH in which case
one of the two has priority, I don't remember which one OR what
priority means in this case. Does it mean that the priority will boot
IF one is found?

Some systems prefer one method, others give you the choice.
Try it out.

I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and
plug in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even
with boot set to 'Legacy Only'.

Is that a BIOS or UEFI boot method on the disk?

My first attempt was with Legacy disks, I would have expected the
BIOS to handle either (in 2024).

Only if the device still supports legacy BIOS boot.

Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port
and onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The
installation went OK and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But
when I boot the T470 with this just installed system connected to
a usb port, pressing 'Enter' for the alternative temporary boot
menu, that menu never shows up (until I unplug the ssd from the
usb port).

The above was done entirely on the T470, I'm pretty confident that it
was properly set up to an EFI device.

Then you have to use the EFI boot method.

This was not exactly this way. On trying again I let it take it's
time and sure enough after maybe 5 minutes the disk showed up in the 'alternative temporary' boot menu. Then when selected it took another
5 minutes for the move to fail and the previous menu to appear,
exactly as it had done with Legacy drives but the this failure beingh
much much slower. I 'think' the system is trying to 'catalogue'
what's on the drive and 1tb of 10 different OS'es on a slow usb
interface takes time to sniff?

Rather unlikely, I regularly boot BIOS and UEFI systems from slow USB
thumb disks.

Please try it with a SATA disk inserted in the internal slot.

Can you boot UEFI USB sticks?

Don't have any (yet)

Do you have any USB thumb sticks?
Then you can use them for both methods if you use the right image
(Debian and Ubuntu ISOs support both methods in their image).

Can you boot from the disk when connected to the SATA port?

I did'nt see a sata port on the T470 and I can't check because I just returned it for another one with 1tb insertad of 256G.

Can you test it on another machine?

NB. Earlier I tried to make an EFI bootable disk as I installed Suse Tumbleweed but on my desktop system. Had already created a gpt disk
with an EFI partition formatted fat and labeled EFI but when I tried
to lay boot code on it accordingly in the installer by selecting
"grub2-efi" as the boot protocol the utility refused claiming that
the machine I was working on had been set for Legacy!

That happens when you boot the live system in the legacy mode.
Boot it in the EFI mode and it will work.
I recommend setting it to UEFI only in the setup to avoid such
situations.

Again in 2024 I
would expect any system to handle booting from OR creating either
bootable disk.

Creating a bootable disk is independend of the support of BIOS/UEFI of
the system you use to create.
It is up to the image you write on the stick.

My hunch is that if I change the desktop to EFI then I should be able
to just plug any of my disks into the T470 usb port and vice versa?

That should work.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 1/22/24 15:43, Marco Moock wrote:

My hunch is that if I change the desktop to EFI then I should be able
to just plug any of my disks into the T470 usb port and vice versa?

That should work.

Thanks, I think I could also reinstall windows-10 after reverting the
T470 laptop to Legacy-BIOS only, not sure about this but I think it
would mean a Legacy-BIOS Windows-10. But if motherboards are moving to
EFI then I'd be beating my head against the wall. Reconfiguring my
desktop to EFI should thus be the alternate option if I cannot boot with Legacy-BIOS drives in the laptop.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 1/21/24 22:23, bad sector wrote:

I'm new to thinkpads, got a T470.

1
The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy drives?

2
I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and plug
in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even with boot set
to 'Legacy Only'.

3
Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port and
onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The installation went OK
and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But when I boot the T470 with
this just installed system connected to a usb port, pressing 'Enter' for
the alternative temporary boot menu, that menu never shows up (until I
unplug the ssd from the usb port).

My preference would be to make #2 work if that's possible. Seems like
I'm missing some bits and pieces, any experience out there?

TIA

I came across this:

https://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/solutions/ht076905-how-to-boot-to-legacy-device-or-system-configured-with-microsoft-windows-7-or-windows-10-thinkpad-thinkcentre-thinkstation-ideacentre



"To boot to Legacy devices or systems configured with Microsoft Windows
7 (32-bit or 64-bit) or Windows 10:

Restart the PC and press F1 to enter Setup.
For ThinkPad: Navigate to the RESTART menu.
For ThinkCentre and ThinkStation: Navigate to the EXIT menu
Select OS Optimized Defaults and change the value to Disabled.
bios settings
Select Yes to continue to disable the OS Optimized Defaults.
Press F9 to load Setup Defaults.
Select Yes to confirm the loading default configuration.
Press F10 to save and exit Setup.
If necessary, press F12 to access the boot menu and select your
boot device."


Does "legacy-device-or-system..." simply mean non-EFI? Is this about EFI
vs. Legacy-BIOS or about somethiong else?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 22.01.2024 um 21:07:58 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

Does "legacy-device-or-system..." simply mean non-EFI? Is this about
EFI vs. Legacy-BIOS or about somethiong else?

Looks like.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 1/21/24 22:23, bad sector wrote:

I'm new to thinkpads, got a T470.

1
The BIOS boot setting says "BOTH, EFI first" and Secure-Boot is
disabled. Does that mean that it should boot either EFI or Legacy drives?

2
I wanted to just take a 2.5" gpt sata ssd from my Linux desktop and plug
in into a usb port on the T470. That didn't work, not even with boot set
to 'Legacy Only'.

3
Next I installed a Suse system from a DVD connected to a usb port and
onto a sata ssd connected to another usb port. The installation went OK
and I thought it was set up for EFI boot. But when I boot the T470 with
this just installed system connected to a usb port, pressing 'Enter' for
the alternative temporary boot menu, that menu never shows up (until I
unplug the ssd from the usb port).

My preference would be to make #2 work if that's possible. Seems like
I'm missing some bits and pieces, any experience out there?

I fear it's not gonna come together, maybe I'll just install linux and
run w10 in vbox :-(

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)