Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
PlusNet say they don't have a problem with other people forwarding and XenCentric have no problem with other ISPs and have sent me the logs below showing the PlusNet error.
I eventually persuaded plusnet to report the fault to the netops team (They opened a ticket but did nothing until I chased them, maybe they were hoping the problem would just go away!) by the time they investigated they said the info was too old and they are being sent three copies, the last request is for a set of recent emails with headers.
I've told them:
Asking for the email headers again demonstrates that they have fundamentally misunderstood the problem. YES my hoster sends the emails THREE times BUT it is because your servers is FALSELY reporting an error each time, when it has actually successfully received them, that is the issue. (Another set of emails with headers will provide no information about the errors from your server) It is the logs from my hoster that are the thing they need to be looking at. Please confirm they have copies of the two logs from my hoster previously sent.
XenCentric Logs:
Our server tries the two MX records for mx.core.plus.net until one
accepts the email. The first two attempts always seen to fail, but
there's no further information on why this is.
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR => cccc@cjemicros.plus.com (chris@cjemicros.co.uk) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> SRS=<SRS0=9qMRml=UX=keith-sanchez.com=abuse@cjemicros.co.uk> R=dkim_lookuphost T=dkim_remote_smtp H=mx.core.plus.net [212.159.9.1]
C="250 OK id=1neeqe-0003AE-IG"
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR Completed
In message <ant2009040b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
"Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error
so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
I used to do this with my personal domain, not anymore.
PlusNet say they don't have a problem with other people forwarding and XenCentric have no problem with other ISPs and have sent me the logs below showing the PlusNet error.
Hmm I suspect the issue might be at your end. I note you are still using
the rather old ANT Marcel for your emails. I don't think ANT supports
secure connections. PlusNet now recommend you use secure connections for security.
I eventually persuaded plusnet to report the fault to the netops team (They opened a ticket but did nothing until I chased them, maybe they were hoping the problem would just go away!) by the time they investigated they said the
info was too old and they are being sent three copies, the last request is for a set of recent emails with headers.
They need the headers from the email you are sending so they can follow
the email trail through the various servers between you and them, headers
can also reveal other info in there investigation.
I've told them:
Asking for the email headers again demonstrates that they have fundamentally
misunderstood the problem. YES my hoster sends the emails THREE times BUT it
is because your servers is FALSELY reporting an error each time, when it has
actually successfully received them, that is the issue. (Another set of emails with headers will provide no information about the errors from your server) It is the logs from my hoster that are the thing they need to be looking at. Please confirm they have copies of the two logs from my hoster previously sent.
Header information will give them info on times for instance so they can
look at their server logs as to why they are erroring.
XenCentric Logs:
[snip]
Our server tries the two MX records for mx.core.plus.net until one
accepts the email. The first two attempts always seen to fail, but
there's no further information on why this is.
[snip]
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR => cccc@cjemicros.plus.com (chris@cjemicros.co.uk) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> SRS=<SRS0=9qMRml=UX=keith-sanchez.com=abuse@cjemicros.co.uk> R=dkim_lookuphost T=dkim_remote_smtp H=mx.core.plus.net [212.159.9.1] C="250 OK id=1neeqe-0003AE-IG"
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR Completed
Intrigued by this entry - what has keith-sanchez.com got to do with cjemircos.co.uk
Personally as you are a business I would forget PlusNet for your email
and send and receive your emails direct from your Domain rather then forwarding everything to/from Plusnet
With lots of checks now with SPF, DKIM, DMARC to verify who the sending is etc.
Plusnet have been reviewing on continuing keeping their own email servers after the major incident last year.
Just seen PlusNet seem to have major problems with Email with SMTP
failures showing in my logs morning again.
In article <0f1810dc59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>, Chris Hughes <URL:mailto:news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
In message <ant2009040b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
"Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of >>> each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last >>> four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they
error
so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
I used to do this with my personal domain, not anymore.
PlusNet say they don't have a problem with other people forwarding and
XenCentric have no problem with other ISPs and have sent me the logs below >>> showing the PlusNet error.
Hmm I suspect the issue might be at your end. I note you are still using
the rather old ANT Marcel for your emails. I don't think ANT supports
secure connections. PlusNet now recommend you use secure connections for
security.
I think you misunderstand this has nothing to do with the email client
The duplicates are visible if I view undownloaded emails via webmail and it is happening on all email addresses we use including those running Windows
10 email clients.
Header information will give them info on times for instance so they can
look at their server logs as to why they are erroring.
As does the logs Neil has provided.
I did send another set of emails with headers just so they couldn't use that as an excuse.
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR => cccc@cjemicros.plus.com
(chris@cjemicros.co.uk) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk>
SRS=<SRS0=9qMRml=UX=keith-sanchez.com=abuse@cjemicros.co.uk>
R=dkim_lookuphost T=dkim_remote_smtp H=mx.core.plus.net [212.159.9.1]
C="250 OK id=1neeqe-0003AE-IG"
2022-04-13 16:24:00 1neeEk-000DvR-VR Completed
Intrigued by this entry - what has keith-sanchez.com got to do with
cjemircos.co.uk
No idea
Personally as you are a business I would forget PlusNet for your email
and send and receive your emails direct from your Domain rather then
forwarding everything to/from Plusnet
Just seen PlusNet seem to have major problems with Email with SMTP
failures showing in my logs morning again.
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the
last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet
they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through
each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Chris Evans (CJE/4D) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:I've been following this thread, but I must confess I don't understand the issue.
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the
last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet
they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through
each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
In article <ant2009040b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
Chris Evans (CJE/4D) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:I've been following this thread, but I must confess I don't understand the issue.
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the
last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet
they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through
each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
I use Plusnet as my ISP, but they have no involvement in my email delivery process other than being the conduit through which I access my email accounts on my many domains.
It seems to me, that you have set up a forwarder to send emails from your XC mailboxes to your Plusnet mailbox? If this is the case, why would you do this rather than log in to those mailboxes directly?
In article <ant2009040b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
Chris Evans (CJE/4D) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the
last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet
they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through
each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?I've been following this thread, but I must confess I don't understand the issue.
I use Plusnet as my ISP, but they have no involvement in my email delivery process other than being the conduit through which I access my email accounts on my many domains.
It seems to me, that you have set up a forwarder to send emails from your XC mailboxes to your Plusnet mailbox? If this is the case, why would you do this rather than log in to those mailboxes directly?
At one time I had an email address set ip on a domain to forward to my main address, but emails were disappearing. It turned out that the mail system didn't forward emails from a blacklisted domain, it simply dropped them. If there had been a mailbox those messaes would have been delivered to the Spam folder on that mailbox.
Since it's easy to set up MPro to access multiple mailboxes, I created a new mailbox, removed the forwarding and problem was solved.
Of course, this may not be relevant, but I'm hoping my experience will give you an insight into what is happening.
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?) way was to forward to your ISP. Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited email forwarders. So we'd have change things quite a bit and
it will probably cost us more.
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need to revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be difficult
In article <59DC913C28%mik.towse@xemik.com>, Mik Towse <URL:mailto:mik@towse.org.uk> wrote:
In article <ant2009040b0pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
Chris Evans (CJE/4D) <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote: Is there
anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for
the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error so xencentric retries but they actually are
getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an
ISP?
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?)
way was to forward to your ISP. Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited email forwarders. So we'd have change things
quite a bit and it will probably cost us more.
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need
to revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be
difficult
All information is welcome.
"Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?) way was to forward to your ISP. Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited email forwarders. So we'd have change things quite a bit and it will probably cost us more.
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need to revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be difficult
One thing to be aware of is that mail delivery is increasingly unreliable if you aren't sending from the approved mailserver for your domain. With DKIM, DMARC and SPF a domain can register which server(s) are legitimately sources of email @that-domain. If the mail comes from a different server the recipient may decide it's spam. This is particularly a problem with Microsoft servers (@outlook.com, @hotmail.com but also a large number of companies and ISPs who outsource their email to Microsoft) who have very aggressive spam filters. I set up a test Outlook mailbox and everything
sent from my normal email system (where I set the From: address to be my domain) dropped straight into the Spam folder.
If you have a home-cooked forwarding setup, you can't just forge headers by setting your From: address to be your domain any more - you need to be sending email from a server registered in your domain's DNS. Since your ISP probably doesn't want to get involved with this, at the very least you need to ensure you're sending from your mail hosts SMTP server, rather than your ISP's server. Doing it for receiving is currently OK, but you have to make sure replies go via the right server (so forwarding multiple domains into a single mailbox gets messy).
Basically the writing is on the wall for forwarding - I think it's going to be increasingly untenable in future.
All information is welcome.
You may not have thought of this, but 10 email boxes is
more than enough.
Instead of forwarding your XenCentric addresses to your
plusnet mailbox, forward them to one or more of your 10
XC mailboxes, so when you download your mail from
XenCentric you get it all and then use Pluto/Messenger to
sort them out (by header info) into your email boxes.
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?) way was to forward to your ISP.I've had my main domain since 1998 (when they cost a fortune!) and never forwarded to my ISP.
Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited email forwarders.The simplest, and how we do it, is set up the required email addresses on XC and forward them to one of the XC mailboxes. Like us, XC allows unlimited
So we'd have change things quite a bit and it will probably cost us more.Not necessarily? ;)
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need to revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be difficult
I made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing likeSince it's easy to set up MPro to access multiple mailboxes, I created a new mailbox, removed the forwarding and problem was solved.
Of course, this may not be relevant, but I'm hoping my experience willAll information is welcome.
give you an insight into what is happening.
In article <ant221428345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk> Chris Evans (CJE/4D) wrote:
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?) way was to forward to your ISP.I've had my main domain since 1998 (when they cost a fortune!) and never forwarded to my ISP.
Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited email forwarders.The simplest, and how we do it, is set up the required email addresses on XC and forward them to one of the XC mailboxes. Like us, XC allows unlimited email alias addresses.
So we'd have change things quite a bit and it will probably cost us more.Not necessarily? ;)
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need to revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be difficult
[snip]
Since it's easy to set up MPro to access multiple mailboxes, I created a new mailbox, removed the forwarding and problem was solved.
I made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing like Messenger Pro, but it seems you are using Marcel. Might be worth considering updating to a more modern RISC OS mail client?Of course, this may not be relevant, but I'm hoping my experience will give you an insight into what is happening.All information is welcome.
IIRC R-Comp told me several years ago MessengerPro can't fetch with POP
and leave the emails on the server for a set time. Which is the way I use email on our PCs very effective.
In article <59DE1A98B0%mik.towse@xemik.com>, Mik Towse <URL:mailto:mik@towse.org.uk> wrote:
In article <ant221428345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk> Chris Evans (CJE/4D)
wrote:
When we started using a hoster many years ago the common (recommended?) way >>> was to forward to your ISP.I've had my main domain since 1998 (when they cost a fortune!) and never
forwarded to my ISP.
Also we only get 10 mailboxes[1] at xencentric but unlimited emailThe simplest, and how we do it, is set up the required email addresses on XC >> and forward them to one of the XC mailboxes. Like us, XC allows unlimited
forwarders.
email alias addresses.
Whats XC?
That might work for a one man band but we have six people accessing our
email and some of us in multiple capacities at multiple locations.
Concurrent mutiusers accessing the same mail box?
I'm sure it can be done but sorting fundamentals first seems wise.
So we'd have change things quite a bit and it will probably cost us more. >> Not necessarily? ;)[snip]
Currently I just don't have the time to make changes like that. I used
to say I hope to semi-retire to 40 hours a week when I'm 50, I now need to >>> revise that to when I'm 70!
[1] I could prune the 25 odd email address we use but 10 would be difficult >>
I made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing likeSince it's easy to set up MPro to access multiple mailboxes, I created a >>>> new mailbox, removed the forwarding and problem was solved.All information is welcome.
Of course, this may not be relevant, but I'm hoping my experience will >>>> give you an insight into what is happening.
Messenger Pro, but it seems you are using Marcel. Might be worth considering >> updating to a more modern RISC OS mail client?
We would have the same problem with MessengerPro. The duplicates can be seen via webmail before RISC OS is touched.
We bought the multiuser/network version of MessengerPro a while back but despite assistance from R-Comp we failed to get it working properly and had to get back to paid work.
Chris Hughes reports success but the only other person I know who had multiuser/network version of MessengerPro said they never got it working adequately and gave up.
When we have time I do plan on trying again but time is not something in stock at CJE:-(
IIRC R-Comp told me several years ago MessengerPro can't fetch with POP
and leave the emails on the server for a set time. Which is the way I use email on our PCs very effective. There had apparently been a
request for this from someone else so they hoped to add it. I can't recall mention of this being added since.
I'll ask Andrew at the show.
Chris Evans
In message <ant251102345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>[snip]
"Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
In article <59DE1A98B0%mik.towse@xemik.com>, Mik Towse <URL:mailto:mik@towse.org.uk> wrote:
Indeed. Sorry I was being lazy.Whats XC?Short for Xencentric
POP is possible, but IMAP allows public and private folders, which can be useful where several people have access to the emails.That might work for a one man band but we have six people accessing our email and some of us in multiple capacities at multiple locations.So what you are wanting is IMAP access to the emails by the sounds of it. That way the emails remain on the server until you fill the quota up or delete the message
This is the part I'm still confused about. I can't get my head around why multiple XC mailboxes would be forwarded to a Plusnet account. Most (all?)We are not talking about your duplicate copies being received by PlusNet since PlusNet would not be involved in processing your emails.I made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing like Messenger Pro, but it seems you are using Marcel. Might be worth considering updating to a more modern RISC OS mail client?We would have the same problem with MessengerPro. The duplicates can be seen via webmail before RISC OS is touched.
And many hosting companies don't have the generous 10GB mailboxes we do. ;)IIRC R-Comp told me several years ago MessengerPro can't fetch with POPSounds like again you are on about IMAP rather then POP3, maybe its the
and leave the emails on the server for a set time. Which is the way I use email on our PCs very effective. There had apparently been a request for this from someone else so they hoped to add it. I can't recall mention of this being added since.
way you are describing it. Messenger Pro can fetch mail via POP3 and leave the original on the server but then it will depend on the hosting company
how long they hold it for on their expensive server space for.
In article <47d0b8de59.chris@mytardis> Chris Hughes wrote:
In message <ant251102345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
"Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
In article <59DE1A98B0%mik.towse@xemik.com>, Mik Towse
<URL:mailto:mik@towse.org.uk> wrote:
[snip]
This is the part I'm still confused about. I can't get my head around why multiple XC mailboxes would be forwarded to a Plusnet account. Most (all?) ISPs I'm aware of only give you one mailbox. This is one reason we use a hosting service, because it allows many mailboxes. Forwarding manyWe are not talking about your duplicate copies being received by PlusNetI made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing likeWe would have the same problem with MessengerPro. The duplicates can be
Messenger Pro, but it seems you are using Marcel. Might be worth
considering updating to a more modern RISC OS mail client?
seen via webmail before RISC OS is touched.
since PlusNet would not be involved in processing your emails.
XC mailboxes to one Plusnet mailbox seems to be at odds with what Chris E is saying he needs.
Of course he may have several Plusnet mailboxes, but this makes no sense when he has several with XC.
[snip multi-user comments]
And many hosting companies don't have the generous 10GB mailboxes we do. ;)IIRC R-Comp told me several years ago MessengerPro can't fetch with POPSounds like again you are on about IMAP rather then POP3, maybe its the
and leave the emails on the server for a set time. Which is the way I use >>> email on our PCs very effective. There had apparently been a request for >>> this from someone else so they hoped to add it. I can't recall mention of >>> this being added since.
way you are describing it. Messenger Pro can fetch mail via POP3 and leave >> the original on the server but then it will depend on the hosting company
how long they hold it for on their expensive server space for.
IIRC originally MPro had two versions, POP3 and multiuser IMAP. Perhaps
the former didn't allow POP3 to be left on the server. It's certainly an option to Remove (or not) on Fetch these days.
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of
each emails sent to them?
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
PlusNet say they don't have a problem with other people forwarding and XenCentric have no problem with other ISPs and have sent me the logs below showing the PlusNet error.
It seems to me, that you have set up a forwarder to send emails from your XC mailboxes to your Plusnet mailbox? If this is the case, why would you do this rather than log in to those mailboxes directly?
At one time I had an email address set ip on a domain to forward to my main address, but emails were disappearing. It turned out that the mail system didn't forward emails from a blacklisted domain, it simply dropped them. If there had been a mailbox those messaes would have been delivered to the Spam folder on that mailbox.
Since it's easy to set up MPro to access multiple mailboxes, I created a new mailbox, removed the forwarding and problem was solved.
Of course, this may not be relevant, but I'm hoping my experience will give you an insight into what is happening.
I made my suggestions on the assumption you were using somehing like Messenger Pro, but it seems you are using Marcel. Might be worth considering updating to a more modern RISC OS mail client?
Yep, Here was ARMX6 acting as the receiving mail server collecting emails
at 10 mins intervals from various mail servers (including Xencentric),
then the other computers in the house collect the mail as required from
the ARMX6 (the mail remains on the ARMX6). The other computers are
primarily now PC's and Laptops, but I have used messenger Pro within
Virtual RPC before now, and indeed at one time a RiscPC.
The date being 20 Apr 2022, "Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> decided to write:
Is there anyone here who uses plusnet as an ISP, getting three copies of each emails sent to them?
Yes.
We use XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP and for the last four weeks when XenCentric tries forwarding our emails to Plusnet they error
so xencentric retries but they actually are getting through each time.
Anyone else using XenCentric as a domain hoster and PlusNet as an ISP?
XenCentric: No, I use eUKhost; PlusNet: Yes.
PlusNet say they don't have a problem with other people forwarding and XenCentric have no problem with other ISPs and have sent me the logs below showing the PlusNet error.
I'm getting triplicate messages (two together and one some time later) for all messages sent from or via my domains hosted by eUKhost, plus messages from eUKhost support etc.
The only differences between the messages are in the first few headers
before DKIM-Signature. The routing is slightly different at PlusNet.
Messages sent direct to PlusNet are OK. Messages into eUKhost are single.
The problem is somewhere in the interface between eUKhost and PlusNet.
I've raised tickets with both of them.
Incidentally I ran tests with Messenger Pro not running, and triplicate messages were queued up. One of the problems with PlusNet is that they
won't investigate mail to/from mail clients. They want everyone to use
their webmail service.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 155:48:19 |
| Calls: | 10,383 |
| Files: | 14,056 |
| Messages: | 6,416,464 |