• Re: Concise rebuttal of incompleteness and undecidability

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sun Jun 2 14:03:41 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/2/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    Because of Quine's paper: https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html most philosophers have been confused into believing that there is no such
    thing as expressions of language that are {true on the basis of their meaning}.

    Except that, in FORMAL LOGIC SYSTEMS, the ONLY definition of "meaning"
    is what is derived from the formal definitions and axioms of the system.


    The unique contribution I have made to this is that the semantic meaning
    of these expressions is always specified by other expressions. When we
    can derive x or ~x by applying truth preserving operations to a set of semantic meanings then this perfectly aligns with Wittgenstein's concise critique of Gödel: https://www.liarparadox.org/Wittgenstein.pdf

    Unless P or ~P has been proved in Russell's system P has no truth value
    and thus cannot be a proposition according to the law of the excluded
    middle.

    As Richard keeps pointing out:
    Sometimes this "proof" may require an infinite sequence of steps.



    But the problem is that if it takes an "infinite sequence of steps" to
    make it true, that set of steps is NOT a PROOF, as proof is defined as a
    FINITE number of steps.

    Thus, there exists statement that are TRUE (by being established by an
    infinite sequence of steps) but can not be PROVEN (which requires
    finding a finite number of steps to show it)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Jun 3 20:56:19 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/2/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:
    Because of Quine's paper: https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html most philosophers have been confused into believing that there is no such
    thing as expressions of language that are {true on the basis of their meaning}.

    The unique contribution I have made to this is that the semantic meaning
    of these expressions is always specified by other expressions. When we
    can derive x or ~x by applying truth preserving operations to a set of semantic meanings then this perfectly aligns with Wittgenstein's concise critique of Gödel: https://www.liarparadox.org/Wittgenstein.pdf

    Unless P or ~P has been proved in Russell's system P has no truth value
    and thus cannot be a proposition according to the law of the excluded
    middle.

    As Richard keeps pointing out:
    Sometimes this "proof" may require an infinite sequence of steps.


    WHich means it isn't a Proof, so you have an unprovable truth.

    So, you seem to admit that, and that you have been wrong about your
    claim that truth must be provable.

    Maybe your problem is you don't know what a proof actually is, which
    explains why you can't actually prove anything.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)