• Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jun 4 21:48:59 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly" to
    allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the machine
    being simulated.

    You have been told this repeatedly, so your refusal to listen just
    proves that you are an ignorant pathological liar that reckless
    disregards the truth and beleives his own lies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jun 4 22:22:53 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above >>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated Correctly"
    to allow the simulation to say anything about the behavior of the
    machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.

    You are just proving that you don't understand how logic works,
    apparently because logic is just above your ability


    You have been told this repeatedly, so your refusal to listen just
    proves that you are an ignorant pathological liar that reckless
    disregards the truth and beleives his own lies.

    If you have reasoning to prove otherwise provide it otherwise
    everyone will know that you have no basis for any rebuttal.


    The fact that in Computation Theory, the only concept of simulation that
    shows behavior is by a defintion that requires that the simulation match
    that behavior. it is sort of a Tautology.

    A simulation can only correctly show the behavior, if the results of the simulation correct show the actual behavior of the thing simulated.

    So, since DD(DD) DOES HALT if HH(DD,DD) returns 0, because it claims it "correct simulation" indicated it was non-halting, means that BY THE
    DEFINITON OF CORRECT, its simulation can not be "correct".

    If you want to claim that something that is objectively wrong can be
    correct, please show it.

    Your logic just brings your system into massive contradiction, and thus
    it is worthless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jun 4 22:45:22 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the
    above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and
    they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from >>>>> their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated
    Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the
    behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?

    I said definition are always correct and you can't prove one wrong.

    There is no counter-example to that.

    If you want a counter example to you claim of correct simulation, DD(DD)
    is the counter example. You claim that you can show a "Correct
    Simulation" of it proves non-halting behavior, when the actual behavior
    of that machine is Halting, so it CAN'T be non-halting.


    The behavior that a machine description specifies to a UTM
    IS THE BEHAVIOR OF THIS FINITE STRING
    YOU ARE SIMPLY VERY CONFUSED



    Right, and a UTM simulates the input to EXACTLY repoduce the behavior of
    the machine it describes.

    So, HH(DD,DD), to be a Halt Decider must answer to if UTM(DD,DD) WHERE
    THAT DD IS STILL PAIRED TO HH, will halt, which means if DD(DD) will halt.

    Since DD(DD) will halt, and thus UTM(DD,DD) will halt, if HH(DD,DD)
    returns 0, that answer can not be correct.

    PERIOD.

    BY DEFINITION, one you even just agreed to.

    Perhaps your problem is you forget the defintion of a UTM, it isn't
    "just a simulator" but it is a machine that EXACTLY REPODUCES THE
    BEHAVIOR of the machine described by its input.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jun 4 23:15:40 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf >>>>>>>
    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that
    the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH. >>>>>>>
    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face
    and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from >>>>>>> their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated
    Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the
    behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.


    We can "define" that it does halt and that would be the same as
    "defining" that all puppies are fifteen story office buildings,
    inherently incorrect.


    Nope, since the DEFINITON of what an input represents to a Halt Decider,
    is the behavior of the actual machine.


    YOUR CLAIM, which CHANGES that definition, is to call all puppies
    fiftenn story office buildings.

    Can you show anyone with a real reputation on this (so not you) that
    defines the meaning of the input to a halt decider your way?

    Until you can do so, you are just admitting that you have been LYING all
    these years, which means that YOU are the one heading for that lake of Fire.

    Of course, you always have the option to REPENT and denounce your lies.
    Just remember, once you die that option is lost (as are you).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred. Zwarts@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 5 10:02:37 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    Op 04.jun.2024 om 23:53 schreef olcott:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
    their face.



    By changing definitions you can prove many things.

    If create a halting decider that looks whether the description of its
    input has an odd, or a an even length, then, of course people will tell
    me that the result does not match direct execution. So, I change the
    definition of halting to that what my decider returns, because that is
    the input used by my decider.
    Then, by definition my decider is always correct.

    You do the same, by changing the meaning of halting to that what your
    decider returns. Of course, by that definition, your deciders is
    trivially correct, but useless.

    It seems that your eyes are so full of Boston cream, that you see
    nothing, not even the cream.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 07:31:22 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf >>>>>>>>>
    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that >>>>>>>>> the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH. >>>>>>>>>
    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face >>>>>>>>> and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips >>>>>>>>> from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated
    Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the
    behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.


    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible because
    you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible, your
    medication has made your brain too fuzzy.

    The DEFINITION of DD Halting, is, and only is, does DD(DD) Halt when
    run. And it does, when HH(DD,DD) returns 0, which is what you say your
    HH "correcly" does. It it is an agreed upon fact, as verified, that DD,
    even when "correctly simulated" by HH, will still halt, as it is not the simulation of HH that determines the answer to the question, but the
    behavior of the actual program DD that does.

    Your HH will, by your own definitions (since you define HH to be a
    decider, so it MUST answer, and thus it MUST halt its simulation) only
    do a partial, even if correct as far as it went, simulation of DD and
    then abort and return 0 to whoever calls it, including DD.

    If you want to try to redeam yourself, point out what step I did that
    was wrong.

    Just repeating your LYING CLAIM that it is wrong, just puts another nail
    in the coffin of your reputation, which has been dead for years.

    Part of your problem is that you just don't understand what the words
    you are using means, because you have refused to study them.

    Definitions can NOT be wrong for the field that provided them. Other definitions may exist in other areas, but you can't use the "wrong"
    definition in a place that has its own technical meaning for that word.

    Trying to do so, just makes you an ignorant liar.

    This is the case for you trying to redefine what "Correct Simulation" or "Halting" means in computation theory, or what "behavior of the input"
    would mean.

    Face it, you have just gotten yourself stuck in your world of lies that
    you dug out of ignorance, and then buried your self with them by your stubbornness to accept what is defined.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 5 18:00:42 2024
    Am Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:30:25 -0500 schrieb olcott:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that >>>>>>>>>>> the above link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly >>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.

    What are you asking for a counter example of?

    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.

    In other words you have always known that I am correct that DD
    correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT and yet still try to
    get away with pure bluster.

    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible
    because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible,
    your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.
    pls no ableism

    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    In that case, H is not simulating it correctly.

    --
    joes

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred. Zwarts@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 5 20:39:14 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    Op 05.jun.2024 om 15:54 schreef olcott:
    On 6/5/2024 3:02 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
    Op 04.jun.2024 om 23:53 schreef olcott:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that the above >>> link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from
    their face.



    By changing definitions you can prove many things.


    int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
    sum(3,4) cannot correctly return the sum of 5 + 6.

    H(D,D) cannot possibly return the halt status of D(D) because
    D calls H in recursive simulation thus forcing the behavior of
    D correctly simulated by H to be different than the behavior of
    the directly executed D(D).

    Requiring H(D,D) to return the halt status of D(D) is exactly
    the same as requiring sum(3,4) to return the sum of 5 + 6.

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    No one has ever shown otherwise all that anyone has ever provided
    is dogmatic assertions entirely bereft of any supporting reasoning.


    Since you deleted most of what I said, I assume that don't know how to
    refute it. Apparently you are unable to change your dogma's, even when confronted with facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 19:32:22 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>
    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact >>>>>>>>>>> that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH. >>>>>>>>>>>
    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their >>>>>>>>>>> face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie >>>>>>>>>>> drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated >>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the >>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you
    cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.


    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible
    because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible,
    your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.


    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

    Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of
    computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)

    PERIOD.

    Since the DEFINITION of Correctly simulating something is that the
    simulation matchs the behavior of the thing simulated, your claim is
    just a lie, and one that isn't an "honest mistake" since you keep
    repeating it after it has been pointed out.

    The problem is that your are trying to define as a "Correct Simulation" something that is just a PARTIAL simulation, and that PARTIAL simulation
    does correctly show PART of the behavior of DD, but that isn't enough to conclude non-halting.

    I will note, that you have been unable to find anyone to quote about
    your concept of simulation being valid (since you surely would have
    posed if you found one) since you haven't done so. This means you SHOULD
    know that you are barking up the wrong tree.


    That you continue to try to get away changing the subject to the
    direct execution of DD(DD) that has provably different behavior as
    your rebuttal is the strawman deception and might possibly get you
    sent to Hell. I hope not. I hope that either (a) you are confused
    or (b) you repent or (c) The bible is wrong about all liars:

    But you haven't proven "DIFFERENT" behavior, as your PARTIAL simulation
    shows what it does show, that DD will call HH, and it will simulate for
    awhile.

    The fact that HH can't simulate its input to the end is NOT a proof that
    it doesn't end.

    The problem is that it is INVALID LOGIC (and just a bald face lie) to
    talk about the behavior of any other HH simulating a DIFFERENT DD as
    having anything to do the behavior of this DD, or that your HHs are some
    how simulation just one "template". (since Templates don't HAVE this
    sort of behavior to decide on, or even simulate).

    All you have done is proven that the criteria you want to try to use,
    just doesn't work and doesn't actually provide a valid basis for HH to
    decide.


    Revelations 21:8
    ...all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with
    fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Which seems to be YOUR destination. I have no concerns, as my statements
    are rooted in truth.


    To the best of my knowledge I am not taking any chances on this. There
    are sometimes when I complement someone and after the fact I carefully
    study my words and find that I inadvertently exaggerated a little bit.
    I never use flattery knowing full well that it is deception.

    Well, it seems your only hope is that God judges you as a mentally
    incompetent person, since the "facts" you try to quote are just wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 21:07:43 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated >>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their >>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie >>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated >>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the >>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you >>>>>>>>> cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you >>>>>>>>> cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you >>>>>>>>> cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to >>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0.


    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible
    because you just don't know what you are talking about, or possible,
    your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.


    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

    Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of
    computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)

    PERIOD.

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*


    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a
    machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and that
    the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior of a
    different machine then simulated.

    It just proves that you are incapable of looking at REALITY.

    Yes, HH creates a correct PARTIAL simulation of DD that shows that this
    DD does not reach a halting state until after the point that HH stops
    its simulation.

    The simulation of all the other machines mean NOTHING about the
    simulation of this machine.

    You are just showing that you don't understand such fundamental facts
    like a machine will do exact what that machine has been programmed to
    do, and nothing else (even if that isn't what you wanted it to do).

    You are just proving you are a stupid, ignorant, pathological liar that
    has a reckless disregard for the truth, and is unable to learn from your mistakes, because you will not look at the actual facts.

    You are worse then the Election Deniers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 21:27:06 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to >>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot >>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0. >>>>>>>>

    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible
    because you just don't know what you are talking about, or
    possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.


    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

    Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition of
    computation theory (or the general concept of a correct simulation)

    PERIOD.

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* >>> https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*


    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a
    machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and
    that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior
    of a different machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.

    Given that HH(DD,DD) halts and returns 0 (or it isn't a decider) we have
    that:

    DD(DD) Halts.

    The ACTUAL Correct Simulation of DD(DD) will Halt.

    The Simulation that HH does, might be correct as far as it goes, but
    doing only a fixed finite number of steps of that particular DD, it
    doesn't show that it can't halt in some larger number of steps (like
    both of the statements above do show).

    So, you are stuck trying to solve a problem with a tool that can't give
    you the answer, and then blaming the problem for you using the wrong tool.

    Halting has a very precise definition, and any answer to the question
    about halting must answer that precise definition.

    Any claim that an answer that differs from that definition is just a LIE.

    You try to push your lie by trying to deceptively change the definition
    of what a "Correct Simulation" is, and that just show that you are
    nothing but a pathological liar with a reckless disregard for the truth,
    as anyone with a shred of morals would see the error and correct themselves.

    Since it seems that your native toungue is to lie, you just don't
    understand that, so you are doomed to be eternally wrong.

    My guess is you are going to be sentenced to spending an eternity going
    around and around in your proof, always thinking you are getting closer,
    but having that hope dashed again and again and again for eternity.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55         push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51         push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 22:25:33 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pie drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Simulated Correctly" to allow the simulation to say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about the behavior of the machine being simulated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that >>>>>>>>>>>>> you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to >>>>>>>>>>> simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot >>>>>>>>>>> possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0. >>>>>>>>>>

    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics, possible >>>>>>>> because you just don't know what you are talking about, or
    possible, your medication has made your brain too fuzzy.


    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

    Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition
    of computation theory (or the general concept of a correct
    simulation)

    PERIOD.

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated
    by HH*
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar*


    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of a
    machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped, and
    that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior
    of a different machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care about
    that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from talking about
    the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE behavior of the
    machine the input represents to a Halt Decider, will you get me caring,
    and slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm that
    it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is MEANINGLESS.

    If you want to talk about HH's PARTIAL (but correct as far as it goes) simulation not reaching to DD's final state, go ahead, I won't argue
    about that, except to point out that this does NOT prove that the input represents non-halting behavior to the halt decider.

    It is the difference between not being able to prove halting behavior,
    and being able to prove non-halting behavior, HH just doesn't have the
    data to prove the behavior.

    Partial simulations give a 3 state result.
    1) If they reach a final state, they prove Halting.
    2) If they create enough data that you can form a valid induction to
    prove that this exact input, if given to a UTM, would never halt, we can
    prove non-halting. (Note, that is the input that FULLY describes the
    FULL machine, and thus for DD includes all the code for the HH that was deciding it), or
    3) IF they can't do either, as is the case for HH, it just just say that
    the input didn't-yet-halt, that it came to a non-decision. Of course,
    Deciders can't leave it that way, which is why we can't actually have
    Halt Deciders that are correct for all inputs.


    Now, if you start to use terminology that implies rather that HH's
    partial simulation not reaching a final state, but that DD is actually non-halting, I will point out your LIES, as that is what you need to do
    to say that, as you just don't have the proof, and it HAS been pointed
    out to you.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55         push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51         push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50         push eax        ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51         push ecx        ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382   ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 23:05:08 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:01 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 10:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:55 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf

    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by HH.

    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their face and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pie drips from
    their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Simulated Correctly" to allow the simulation to say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about the behavior of the machine being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not >>>>>>>>>>>>> halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you >>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    No, it specifies that it HALTS, since HH(DD,DD) will return 0. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    In other words you have always known that I am correct
    that DD correctly simulated by HH CANNOT POSSIBLY HALT
    and yet still try to get away with pure bluster.


    You are talking in circles and keep on changing topics,
    possible because you just don't know what you are talking
    about, or possible, your medication has made your brain too >>>>>>>>>> fuzzy.


    *It is a proven fact that directly executed DD(DD) has*
    *different behavior than DD correctly simulated by HH*
    *One can lie about this yet this lie is easily exposed*

    Then HH does not correctly simulate the input per the definition >>>>>>>> of computation theory (or the general concept of a correct
    simulation)

    PERIOD.

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated >>>>>>> by HH*
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf >>>>>>>
    *That you cannot find any error seems to prove that you are a liar* >>>>>>>

    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation of >>>>>> a machine indicates what it will do after the simulation stopped,
    and that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells you of the
    behavior of a different machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care about
    that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from talking about
    the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE behavior of the
    machine the input represents to a Halt Decider, will you get me
    caring, and slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm
    that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is
    MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulitions, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE THE CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.



    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55 push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51 push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 23:41:21 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial simulation >>>>>>>> of a machine indicates what it will do after the simulation
    stopped, and that the simulation of a DIFFERENT machine tells
    you of the behavior of a different machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care
    about that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from
    talking about the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE
    behavior of the machine the input represents to a Halt Decider, will
    you get me caring, and slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal. >>>>

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm
    that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is
    MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulations, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.

    I am going to take your just repeating of what I have said is worthless
    as an admission that you can't think of any way to show that it actually
    means something, your admission that this is just the strawman that you
    "proof" has been based on for years, that doesn't actually prove what
    you claim.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE THE CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55 push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51 push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jun 5 23:58:13 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial
    simulation of a machine indicates what it will do after the >>>>>>>>>> simulation stopped, and that the simulation of a DIFFERENT >>>>>>>>>> machine tells you of the behavior of a different machine then >>>>>>>>>> simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>

    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care
    about that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from
    talking about the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the OBJECTIVE
    behavior of the machine the input represents to a Halt Decider,
    will you get me caring, and slapping you down hard with a factual
    rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to confirm >>>>>> that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn because it is >>>>>> MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I
    am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulations, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.

    I am going to take your just repeating of what I have said is worthless
    as an admission that you can't think of any way to show that it actually
    means something, your admission that this is just the strawman that you
    "proof" has been based on for years, that doesn't actually prove what
    you claim.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]


    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE THE CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55 push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51 push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Jun 6 00:06:52 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/6/24 12:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial
    simulation of a machine indicates what it will do after the >>>>>>>>>>>> simulation stopped, and that the simulation of a DIFFERENT >>>>>>>>>>>> machine tells you of the behavior of a different machine >>>>>>>>>>>> then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>>>

    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question. >>>>>>>>>>

    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't care >>>>>>>> about that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line from
    talking about the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the
    OBJECTIVE behavior of the machine the input represents to a Halt >>>>>>>> Decider, will you get me caring, and slapping you down hard with >>>>>>>> a factual rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>
    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to
    confirm that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn
    because it is MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because
    I am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I
    am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulations, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.

    I am going to take your just repeating of what I have said is worthless
    as an admission that you can't think of any way to show that it actually
    means something, your admission that this is just the strawman that you
    "proof" has been based on for years, that doesn't actually prove what
    you claim.



    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]



    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE YOUR CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55 push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51 push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Jun 6 07:11:02 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/6/24 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 11:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/6/24 12:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a machine indicates what it will do after >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the simulation stopped, and that the simulation of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior of a different >>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>>>>>

    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't >>>>>>>>>> care about that worthless claim. Only when you cross the line >>>>>>>>>> from talking about the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, to the >>>>>>>>>> OBJECTIVE behavior of the machine the input represents to a >>>>>>>>>> Halt Decider, will you get me caring, and slapping you down >>>>>>>>>> hard with a factual rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>>>
    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to >>>>>>>>>> confirm that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn >>>>>>>>>> because it is MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct,
    because I am not willing to put that effort into your worthless >>>>>>>> claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because
    I am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I
    am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulations, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.

    I am going to take your just repeating of what I have said is worthless
    as an admission that you can't think of any way to show that it actually
    means something, your admission that this is just the strawman that you
    "proof" has been based on for years, that doesn't actually prove what
    you claim.



    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE YOUR CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.


    _DD()
    [00001db2] 55 push ebp
    [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp
    [00001db5] 51 push ecx
    [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD
    [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD
    [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*

    *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ornott@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Jun 6 18:48:08 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 5/06/24 04:55, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 10:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 9:54 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/4/24 5:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf >>>>>>>
    At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact that
    the above
    link conclusively proves that DD <is> correctly simulated by HH. >>>>>>>
    It has been just like I smash a Boston cream pie in their face
    and they
    persistently deny that there ever was any pie as this pie drips from >>>>>>> their face.



    The problem iks you use the WRONG DEFINITION of "Simulated
    Correctly" to allow the simulation to say anything about the
    behavior of the machine being simulated.


    *I conclusively proved otherwise in the above link*

    You CAN'T provd that a definition is wrong.


    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*
    *Try and provide a counter-example or implicitly admit that you cannot*

    What are you asking for a counter example of?


    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    The machine description of DD specifies (to everyone) that it halts if HH(DD,DD) returns 0.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From prescott@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Jun 6 20:03:12 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/06/24 18:56, olcott wrote:
    On 6/6/2024 11:48 AM, ornott wrote:
    On 5/06/24 04:55, olcott wrote:
    The machine description of DD specifies that it does not halt to
    simulating halt decider HH and you already know that you cannot
    possibly prove otherwise.

    The machine description of DD specifies (to everyone) that it halts if
    HH(DD,DD) returns 0.


    From: ornott <news2@immibis.com>
    established Liar.


    You are unable to refute this established fact:

    On 5/06/24 04:19, olcott wrote:
    It is fully operational C code it can run out of stack space
    even if you give it googolplex of terabytes.

    Sounds like it's infinite recursion. Infinite recursion doesn't halt. Deciders always halt, so a program that's infinitely recursive isn't
    a > decider.

    because it is true.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Jun 6 22:08:34 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 6/6/24 9:06 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/6/2024 6:11 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/6/24 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 11:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/6/24 12:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 10:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 9:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:31 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 6/5/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 6/5/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    Nopoe, because it is based on the LIE that a partial >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of a machine indicates what it will do after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the simulation stopped, and that the simulation of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DIFFERENT machine tells you of the behavior of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different machine then simulated.

    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001dbe]


    I never said it could, you just are stuck in a bad question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT >>>>>>>>>>>>> UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE >>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT I AM INCORRECT

    Then you aren't going to get anywhere, because I just don't >>>>>>>>>>>> care about that worthless claim. Only when you cross the >>>>>>>>>>>> line from talking about the SUBJECTIVE answer that HH saw, >>>>>>>>>>>> to the OBJECTIVE behavior of the machine the input
    represents to a Halt Decider, will you get me caring, and >>>>>>>>>>>> slapping you down hard with a factual rebuttal.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH >>>>>>>>>>>>> such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe] >>>>>>>>>>>>
    But I don't claim that it can. I won't go to the effort to >>>>>>>>>>>> confirm that it can't, because, frankly, I don't give a damn >>>>>>>>>>>> because it is MEANINGLESS.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct,
    because I am not willing to put that effort into your
    worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct,
    because I am not willing to put that effort into your worthless >>>>>>>> claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because
    I am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I
    am not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.


    THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT
    UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE
    THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    *THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY PROOF*
    *THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY PROOF*
    *THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY PROOF*
    *THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY PROOF*
    *THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF MY PROOF*

    THUS THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK TO ME ABOUT UNTIL
    YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE THAT I AM INCORRECT

    But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you are correct, because I am
    not willing to put that effort into your worthless claim.

    Since partial simulations, or simulation of a different input, don't
    prove non-halting behavior of this input, it just doesn't matter.

    So, I guess we are stuck until you just die of your cancer.

    I am going to take your just repeating of what I have said is worthless
    as an admission that you can't think of any way to show that it actually
    means something, your admission that this is just the strawman that you
    "proof" has been based on for years, that doesn't actually prove what
    you claim.

    If this statement is the "Most Important" part of your proof, that
    doesn't say much, since you can't show that it actually means anything.


    *I will dumb it down for you some more*
    Try any show how this DD can be correctly simulated by any HH
    such that this DD reaches past its machine address [00001dbe]

    And I will dumb it down for you.

    I DON'T CARE BECAUSE YOUR CLAIM MEANS NOTHING IMPORTANT.



    _DD()
    [00001e12] 55         push ebp
    [00001e13] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp
    [00001e15] 51         push ecx
    [00001e16] 8b4508     mov  eax,[ebp+08]
    [00001e19] 50         push eax      ; push DD
    [00001e1a] 8b4d08     mov  ecx,[ebp+08]
    [00001e1d] 51         push ecx      ; push DD
    [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH

    *Mike Terry would admit it if he would pay attention*
    *He is not a liar*


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)