• ""self contradictory"" (Was: Analytic Truth-makers)

    From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Jul 22 22:18:29 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    What do you mean by self contradictory.
    Why is there no sequencce to:

    p

    or to

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?

    olcott schrieb:
    I have focused on analytic truth-makers where an expression of language
    x is shown to be true in language L by a sequence of truth preserving operations from the semantic meaning of x in L to x in L.

    In rare cases such as the Goldbach conjecture this may require an
    infinite sequence of truth preserving operations thus making analytic knowledge a subset of analytic truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture

    There are cases where there is no finite or infinite sequence of
    truth preserving operations to x or ~x in L because x is self-
    contradictory in L. In this case x is not a truth-bearer in L.




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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Jul 22 22:46:41 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    And why is there no sequence of
    logical transformations that leads to:

    p

    and no sequence of logical
    transformations that leads to:

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?

    olcott schrieb:
    On 7/22/2024 3:18 PM, Mild Shock wrote:

    What do you mean by self contradictory.
    Why is there no sequencce to:

    p

    or to

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?


    This sentence is not true is *self* contradictory.
    When it is formalized in Tarski formal system it
    becomes the basis for his undefinability theorem.

    Tarski's Liar Paradox from page 248
       It would then be possible to reconstruct the antinomy of the liar
       in the metalanguage, by forming in the language itself a sentence
       x such that the sentence of the metalanguage which is correlated
       with x asserts that x is not a true sentence.
       https://liarparadox.org/Tarski_247_248.pdf

    Formalized as:
    x ∉ True if and only if p
    where the symbol 'p' represents the whole sentence x https://liarparadox.org/Tarski_275_276.pdf


    olcott schrieb:
    I have focused on analytic truth-makers where an expression of
    language x is shown to be true in language L by a sequence of truth
    preserving operations from the semantic meaning of x in L to x in L.

    In rare cases such as the Goldbach conjecture this may require an
    infinite sequence of truth preserving operations thus making analytic
    knowledge a subset of analytic truth.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture

    There are cases where there is no finite or infinite sequence of
    truth preserving operations to x or ~x in L because x is self-
    contradictory in L. In this case x is not a truth-bearer in L.






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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to Mild Shock on Mon Jul 22 22:49:23 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    p is just an arbitrary propositional
    variable. Not some Liar sentences?

    Mild Shock schrieb:
    And why is there no sequence of
    logical transformations that leads to:

    p

    and no sequence of logical
    transformations that leads to:

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?

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  • From Mild Shock@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jul 23 00:49:10 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    I don't have any sentence x, only a propositional
    variable. You started with the following definition:

    I have focused on analytic truth-makers where an
    expression of language x is shown to be true in
    language L by a sequence of truth preserving operations
    from the semantic meaning of x in L to x in L.

    BTW: I just notice that it is anyway utter nonsense.
    What do you mean semantic meaning of x in L to x in L?

    Holy cow, what crap is this? If the two sides x in L left
    and x in L right are different things, that can be connected
    by a operations, why not use some marker?

    Like you go from x^ in L to x in L?

    And define x^ the semantic meaning of x^. But what
    is x then? What are you doing olli?

    olcott schrieb:
    On 7/22/2024 3:46 PM, Mild Shock wrote:
    And why is there no sequence of
    logical transformations that leads to:

    p

    and no sequence of logical
    transformations that leads to:

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?


    You have it backwards.
    x ∉ True if and only if p
    where the symbol 'p' represents the whole sentence x

    The above is a very clumsy way of saying
    that x is only true if x is not true.

    We can know this because Tarski said the was using the
    Liar Paradox as his model:

    It would then be possible to reconstruct the antinomy of the
    liar in the metalanguage, by forming in the language itself
    a sentence x such that the sentence of the metalanguage which
    is correlated with x asserts that x is not a true sentence.

    olcott schrieb:
    On 7/22/2024 3:18 PM, Mild Shock wrote:

    What do you mean by self contradictory.
    Why is there no sequencce to:

    p

    or to

    ~p

    Is p self contradictory?


    This sentence is not true is *self* contradictory.
    When it is formalized in Tarski formal system it
    becomes the basis for his undefinability theorem.

    Tarski's Liar Paradox from page 248
        It would then be possible to reconstruct the antinomy of the liar >>>     in the metalanguage, by forming in the language itself a sentence >>>     x such that the sentence of the metalanguage which is correlated
        with x asserts that x is not a true sentence.
        https://liarparadox.org/Tarski_247_248.pdf

    Formalized as:
    x ∉ True if and only if p
    where the symbol 'p' represents the whole sentence x
    https://liarparadox.org/Tarski_275_276.pdf


    olcott schrieb:
    I have focused on analytic truth-makers where an expression of
    language x is shown to be true in language L by a sequence of truth
    preserving operations from the semantic meaning of x in L to x in L. >>>>>
    In rare cases such as the Goldbach conjecture this may require an
    infinite sequence of truth preserving operations thus making
    analytic knowledge a subset of analytic truth.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture

    There are cases where there is no finite or infinite sequence of
    truth preserving operations to x or ~x in L because x is self-
    contradictory in L. In this case x is not a truth-bearer in L.








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