• Re: Defining problems to make solutions impossible --- Correct simulati

    From joes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 19 09:17:03 2025
    Am Tue, 18 Mar 2025 22:44:26 -0500 schrieb olcott:
    On 3/18/2025 10:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 3/18/25 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 3/18/2025 5:28 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 17 Mar 2025 22:43:05 -0500 schrieb olcott:
    On 3/17/2025 8:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 3/17/25 3:58 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 3/17/2025 2:50 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
    Op 17.mrt.2025 om 20:41 schreef olcott:

    It means that everyone saying that the behavior must be the behavior >>>>> of the direct execution is wrong.
    The behavior that HHH reports on can only be the behavior that HHH
    can see.
    If only it would simulate correctly... then it would see.

    It is always impossible for any halt decider to directly report on
    the actual behavior of the direct execution of any other TM. Most of >>>>> the time the halt decider lucks out and the behavior specified by
    the finite string works as a proxy for the behavior of the direct
    execution.
    lolno.

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }
    If you think that DDD correctly simulated by HHH that includes HHH
    correctly simulating itself simulated DDD reaches its return
    instruction
    How the Fuck does it do this?

    But your HHH, as defined by the Halt7.c

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002173] 8bec
    mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push
    DDD [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002182] 5d pop ebp
    [00002183] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    Does emulate the first four instructions of DDD and HHH emulating itself emulating DDD reaching the machine address of 0000217a a second time.
    As far as the outer HHH is concerned, it is just simulating the code of
    HHH. It doesn't matter what the inner HHH is simulating.

    Then HHH correctly determines that there are no conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a and that DDD called the same function twice in sequence.
    No, DDD has only one function call, and there *is* a conditional branch
    in there.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Mar 19 06:56:21 2025
    On 3/18/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 3/18/2025 10:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 3/18/25 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 3/18/2025 5:28 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 17 Mar 2025 22:43:05 -0500 schrieb olcott:
    On 3/17/2025 8:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 3/17/25 3:58 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 3/17/2025 2:50 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
    Op 17.mrt.2025 om 20:41 schreef olcott:

    It is impossible for one TM X to determine that another TM Y has >>>>>>>>> only an infinite loop on the basis of the direct execution of >>>>>>>>> Y. No
    TM can in any way monitor the direct execution of another TM. >>>>>>>>>
    No, of course it cannot monitor.

    Then it cannot possibly compute the mapping from the directed
    executed
    TM to its behavior and everyone saying this <is> the basis for the >>>>>>> halting problem is wrong.

    And what is wrong about it not being able to compute that?

    It means that everyone saying that the behavior must be the
    behavior of
    the direct execution is wrong.
    The behavior that HHH reports on can only be the behavior that HHH can >>>>> see.
    If only it would simulate correctly... then it would see.

    Nothing requires that the decider actually be able to do the
    computation, the failure to do so just make the decider incorrect, >>>>>> which is an option.

    It is always impossible for any halt decider to directly report on the >>>>> actual behavior of the direct execution of any other TM. Most of the >>>>> time the halt decider lucks out and the behavior specified by the
    finite
    string works as a proxy for the behavior of the direct execution.
    lolno.


    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    If you think that DDD correctly simulated by HHH
    that includes HHH correctly simulating itself
    simulated DDD reaches its return instruction

    How the F-ck does it do this?


    But your HHH, as defined by the Halt7.c

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    Does emulate the first four instructions of DDD
    and HHH emulating itself emulating DDD reaching
    the machine address of 0000217a a second time.

    Right, and it was the conditional instruction in that "loop", so it
    knows that the HHH that it is simulating can abort its simulation and
    return,


    Then HHH correctly determines that there are no
    conditional branch instructions between 00002172
    and 0000217a and that DDD called the same function
    twice in sequence.


    But that doesn't matter, as you are basing your claim on an incorrect
    rule. The actual rule refers to no conditionals between the two calls.

    Since you can't (or won't as it reveals the lie) show where you got your "rule", you are just admitting that your whole logic is based on LIES,
    and is thus just a FRAUD.

    The closest I can think of to your "rule" requires that HHH be a
    function that DOES correctly emulate its input until it reaches a final
    state, which HHH doesn't do, since it abort its emulation.

    It seems you don't understand that partial emulation is not correct
    emulation, perhaps because you don't understand the logical definition
    of "Correct" to be an absolute, and not just mostly correct.

    Sorry, you seem to be so stupid you can't learn from your own mistakes
    when they are pointed to you, and thus you are doomed to repeat them
    FOREVER, through all of eternity.

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