On 3/18/2025 10:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:As far as the outer HHH is concerned, it is just simulating the code of
On 3/18/25 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/18/2025 5:28 AM, joes wrote:
Am Mon, 17 Mar 2025 22:43:05 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 3/17/2025 8:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 3/17/25 3:58 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/17/2025 2:50 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 17.mrt.2025 om 20:41 schreef olcott:
It means that everyone saying that the behavior must be the behavior >>>>> of the direct execution is wrong.If only it would simulate correctly... then it would see.
The behavior that HHH reports on can only be the behavior that HHH
can see.
_DDD()But your HHH, as defined by the Halt7.cvoid DDD()It is always impossible for any halt decider to directly report onlolno.
the actual behavior of the direct execution of any other TM. Most of >>>>> the time the halt decider lucks out and the behavior specified by
the finite string works as a proxy for the behavior of the direct
execution.
{
HHH(DDD);
return;
}
If you think that DDD correctly simulated by HHH that includes HHH
correctly simulating itself simulated DDD reaches its return
instruction
How the Fuck does it do this?
[00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002173] 8bec
mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push
DDD [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002182] 5d pop ebp
[00002183] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
Does emulate the first four instructions of DDD and HHH emulating itself emulating DDD reaching the machine address of 0000217a a second time.
Then HHH correctly determines that there are no conditional branch instructions between 00002172 and 0000217a and that DDD called the same function twice in sequence.No, DDD has only one function call, and there *is* a conditional branch
On 3/18/2025 10:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 3/18/25 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/18/2025 5:28 AM, joes wrote:
Am Mon, 17 Mar 2025 22:43:05 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 3/17/2025 8:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:If only it would simulate correctly... then it would see.
On 3/17/25 3:58 PM, olcott wrote:It means that everyone saying that the behavior must be the
On 3/17/2025 2:50 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:And what is wrong about it not being able to compute that?
Op 17.mrt.2025 om 20:41 schreef olcott:
No, of course it cannot monitor.
It is impossible for one TM X to determine that another TM Y has >>>>>>>>> only an infinite loop on the basis of the direct execution of >>>>>>>>> Y. No
TM can in any way monitor the direct execution of another TM. >>>>>>>>>
Then it cannot possibly compute the mapping from the directed
executed
TM to its behavior and everyone saying this <is> the basis for the >>>>>>> halting problem is wrong.
behavior of
the direct execution is wrong.
The behavior that HHH reports on can only be the behavior that HHH can >>>>> see.
lolno.Nothing requires that the decider actually be able to do theIt is always impossible for any halt decider to directly report on the >>>>> actual behavior of the direct execution of any other TM. Most of the >>>>> time the halt decider lucks out and the behavior specified by the
computation, the failure to do so just make the decider incorrect, >>>>>> which is an option.
finite
string works as a proxy for the behavior of the direct execution.
void DDD()
{
HHH(DDD);
return;
}
If you think that DDD correctly simulated by HHH
that includes HHH correctly simulating itself
simulated DDD reaches its return instruction
How the F-ck does it do this?
But your HHH, as defined by the Halt7.c
_DDD()
[00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d pop ebp
[00002183] c3 ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
Does emulate the first four instructions of DDD
and HHH emulating itself emulating DDD reaching
the machine address of 0000217a a second time.
Then HHH correctly determines that there are no
conditional branch instructions between 00002172
and 0000217a and that DDD called the same function
twice in sequence.
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 493 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 183:16:49 |
Calls: | 9,705 |
Files: | 13,737 |
Messages: | 6,179,547 |