• Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Apr 5 18:11:55 2025
    On 4/5/25 4:51 PM, olcott wrote:
    *Simulating termination analyzer Principle*
    It is always correct for any simulating termination
    analyzer to stop simulating and reject any input that
    would otherwise prevent its own termination.

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    Anyone knowing the C programming language knows
    that DDD simulated by HHH by any correct pure
    simulator would prevent HHH from terminating.


    Which means it must be CORRECT, per the definition of the mapping that
    the decider is supposed to be deciding on, which for a Halt
    Decider/Termination Analyzer is the mapping of the direct execution of
    the program described by the input. It MUST accept ANY program that will
    halt by the definition, and must any program that will never halt, even
    after running for an unbounded number of steps.

    The partial emulation of the input doesn't matter, and the input MUST
    represent a COMPLETE program, and thus for your above, MUST include the
    code for the SPECIFIC HHH that it is designed to be foiling, which is
    your orignal HHH defined in Halt7.c which DOES abort its emulation and
    returns 0.

    Since that direct execution will clearly halt (as shown by the actually
    correct emulation done by HHH1) we can say that you HHH, which DOES
    abort its emulation, did not have the proper justifcatio for its behavior.

    Note, since DDD calls that specific HHH, the fact that HHH behaves that
    was is what keeps it from preventing its own termination.

    Your logic makes the strawman fallacy of presuming you change the input
    when you change HHH, but that violates the definition of DDD being a
    program.

    Note, your final paragraph is just a collection of word salad, as your
    HHH is NOT a "pure simulator" but only a partial simulator, so is self-contradictory.

    It seems you want to look at a totally different version of the input,
    where both HHH are actually correct simulators, and yes, in that case
    DDD will be non-haltig, but that HHH fails to be the needed decider, and
    this DDD is not the same DDD as given to your actual HHH, as your actual
    HHH gives an answer, and thus doesn't do that actually correct simulation.

    So, all you are doing is proving your ignorance of what you are talking
    about because you don't understand the meaning of the words, and that
    you have chosen to just lie about what you are doing as you know you are changing definitions, and thus using the strawman argument that you know
    to be invalid, as you keep on projecting and accusing everyone else of committing while you are doing it yourself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Apr 5 22:37:15 2025
    On 4/5/25 9:15 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/5/2025 5:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 4/5/25 4:51 PM, olcott wrote:
    *Simulating termination analyzer Principle*
    It is always correct for any simulating termination
    analyzer to stop simulating and reject any input that
    would otherwise prevent its own termination.

    void DDD()
    {
        HHH(DDD);
        return;
    }

    Anyone knowing the C programming language knows
    that DDD simulated by HHH by any correct pure
    simulator would prevent HHH from terminating.


    Which means it must be CORRECT,

    In that HHH really would never halt unless it
    stops simulating DDD.


    So you admit that you HHH doesn't qualify as a decider, since it doesn't
    halt unless something make it?

    But of course, it does abort, so that logic doesn't apply, but then that
    also applies to DDD, so DDD is also halting.

    You just don't understand what a PROGRAM is.

    The actual code that it has, defines the program.

    Either the code HAS the abort condition defined, and that same code is
    used by DDD, so DDD will halt, or that code doesn't have that condition
    defined in it, and neither abort, and thus your HHH fails to be a decider.

    You are just proving how stupid and ignorant you are, and how far you
    will try to reach to find a lie to try to make you crazy statements seem
    to be true.

    Sorry, but you are just proving how much of an ignorant and stupid
    pathological lying idiot you are. You just don't know what you are
    talking about, but are just to damned stupid to see it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)