Hello,
normally in my shell scripts I use the classics, such as grep, sed, awk,
cut, sort, uniq, a bit of Perl etc.
I recently learned about the existence of "mlr"
https://miller.readthedocs.io/en/6.8.0/
, "datamash",
https://www.gnu.org/software/datamash/manual/datamash.html/
"jq",
https://jqlang.github.io/jq/
"q",
https://harelba.github.io/q/
and "sqlet"
https://www.sqlet.com/
which intrigued me and made me think about other tools that I
might be missing.
Any obvious candidates for text mangling?
On 2023-06-08, Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> wrote:
Any obvious candidates for text mangling?
"txr"
http://nongnu.org/txr
:)
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
On 2023-06-08, Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> wrote:
Any obvious candidates for text mangling?
"txr"
http://nongnu.org/txr
:)
It is (and has been for some time) on my radar for sure. I find the
blend with Lisp intruiging (you occasionally answered my stupid
questions next door in comp.lang.lisp), but the 900 pages of "man" deter
me.
Are there any other resources for learning, more along the lines of a tutorial or a classic textbook?
Yes; noboid is going to read a huge man page from top to bottom; but
it's very useful to have it installed for a quick search.
To help with the manual, there is a HTML-ized version with internal hyperlinks and a navigable, collapsible table of contents.
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
Yes; noboid is going to read a huge man page from top to bottom; but
it's very useful to have it installed for a quick search.
To help with the manual, there is a HTML-ized version with internal
hyperlinks and a navigable, collapsible table of contents.
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.
Texinfo doesn't have a good terminal-based interface, and what it does
have is not as widely available as a man program.
Almost every time I use some GNU program's info, I end up going on the
web to find the "all in one HTML page" version of the doc.
Documentation systems that don't have a good terminal interface (or any
at all) are a dime a dozen.
It doesn't seem to be capable of authoring man pages out of the box.
(If so, all those GNU maintainers who maintain separate man pages and
texinfo documentation didn't get the memo: GCC, Bash, Gawk, ...) I'm not going to maintain parallel documents! Now I'm sure I could get good man
pages and texinfo documentation from a single source document if I
worked at it, but what would be the point.
Feeling myself tortured with 'info'-pages and with hints in some >'man'-page(-stub) that relevant information is only available in
'info'-pages I wonder whether there's some tool that extracts or
dumps (structured or not) the 'info' page information to create
some "all in one" page (in *roff, HTML, or plain text format)?
(With all the hypertext links it's probably a desperate wish but
maybe someone had a good idea implemented.)
On Sun, 11 Jun 2023 13:19:26 +0200
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:
Feeling myself tortured with 'info'-pages and with hints in some
'man'-page(-stub) that relevant information is only available in
'info'-pages I wonder whether there's some tool that extracts or
dumps (structured or not) the 'info' page information to create
some "all in one" page (in *roff, HTML, or plain text format)?
(With all the hypertext links it's probably a desperate wish but
maybe someone had a good idea implemented.)
Anything wrong with less info-page ? If there are several files
then cat <files-pattern> | less also works. You will get the
occasional control character but it's perfectly readable.
Feeling myself tortured with 'info'-pages and with hints in some 'man'-page(-stub) that relevant information is only available in
'info'-pages I wonder whether there's some tool that extracts or
dumps (structured or not) the 'info' page information to create
some "all in one" page (in *roff, HTML, or plain text format)?
(With all the hypertext links it's probably a desperate wish but
maybe someone had a good idea implemented.)
On 2023-06-11, Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
< --------
It doesn't seem to be capable of authoring man pages out of the box.
(If so, all those GNU maintainers who maintain separate man pages and
texinfo documentation didn't get the memo: GCC, Bash, Gawk, ...) I'm not
going to maintain parallel documents! Now I'm sure I could get good man
pages and texinfo documentation from a single source document if I
worked at it, but what would be the point.
Halibut.
On 11.06.23 15:43, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jun 2023 13:19:26 +0200
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:
Feeling myself tortured with 'info'-pages and with hints in some
'man'-page(-stub) that relevant information is only available in
'info'-pages I wonder whether there's some tool that extracts or
dumps (structured or not) the 'info' page information to create
some "all in one" page (in *roff, HTML, or plain text format)?
(With all the hypertext links it's probably a desperate wish but
maybe someone had a good idea implemented.)
Anything wrong with less info-page ? If there are several files
then cat <files-pattern> | less also works. You will get the
occasional control character but it's perfectly readable.
Yeah. Even (for example) 'info ls | less' seems to work pretty well.
Will also have a look into 'texi2any', that Kenny suggested. Thanks.
< --------
It doesn't seem to be capable of authoring man pages out of the box.
(If so, all those GNU maintainers who maintain separate man pages and
texinfo documentation didn't get the memo: GCC, Bash, Gawk, ...) I'm not going to maintain parallel documents! Now I'm sure I could get good man
pages and texinfo documentation from a single source document if I
worked at it, but what would be the point.
On 2023-06-11, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yeah. Even (for example) 'info ls | less' seems to work pretty well.
Will also have a look into 'texi2any', that Kenny suggested. Thanks.
It works on all of coreutils. I get about 19,000 lines of output,
so you can read everything at once.
I noticed there is an index in the back, which has small line
numbers. These are node-relative.
For example:
* --padding: numfmt invocation. (line 87)
When I find the start of the numfmt node far above that, which looks
like:
File: coreutils.info, Node: numfmt invocation, Next: seq [...]
Then if pretend that the blank line immediately above it is 1,
then line 87 from that lands on the --padding option.
A filter could easily be written to turn these relative references into absolute.
Texinfo doesn't have a good terminal-based interface, and what it does
have is not as widely available as a man program.
On 2023-06-10, Javier wrote:
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
Yes; noboid is going to read a huge man page from top to bottom;
but it's very useful to have it installed for a quick search.
To help with the manual, there is a HTML-ized version with internal
hyperlinks and a navigable, collapsible table of contents.
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.
For those of us not into emacs I'd recommend pinfo. It's a curses
based info reader with keyboard navigation. Very easy to use and
customize.
https://github.com/baszoetekouw/pinfo
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
Texinfo doesn't have a good terminal-based interface, and what it does
have is not as widely available as a man program.
The good terminal reader for info files is 'emacs -nw'. The
standalone info tool is better replaced by this:
emacs-info(){ emacs -nw --exec '(info "'"$(/usr/bin/info -w ${1})"'")'; }
Javier <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
Texinfo doesn't have a good terminal-based interface, and what it does
have is not as widely available as a man program.
The good terminal reader for info files is 'emacs -nw'. The
standalone info tool is better replaced by this:
emacs-info(){ emacs -nw --exec '(info "'"$(/usr/bin/info -w ${1})"'")'; }
For those of us not into emacs I'd recommend pinfo. It's a curses
based info reader with keyboard navigation. Very easy to use and
customize.
Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
For those of us not into emacs I'd recommend pinfo. It's a curses
based info reader with keyboard navigation. Very easy to use and
customize.
https://github.com/baszoetekouw/pinfo
Yes, pinfo is another choice for people who is not used to emacs, and
its keybindings are very easy to learn. The interface is very similar to lynx.
What I miss in pinfo is a keybinding to search in the index of
important keywords (it's the 'I' binding in emacs and standalone
info). In pinfo you can do a full text search, but AFAIK it's not
possible to do a search of indexed keywords.
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.
I'd be curious of the reasoning behind such a conclusion?
b. It forces no page breaks. Those make little sense on
screen anyway.
(And given that a lot of free software distributions now come
with README.md files, which I believe are primarily useful as
a source for HTML, I'm going to guess I'm not the only one.)
Texinfo is a tad problematic in this regard as precompiled
software packages typically don't include source .texi files
but only the resulting .info ones. Depending on the packager's
preferences, .pdf, .html and others might also be provided, but
that's far from a universal practice IME.
While I understand that historically, using either a *roff
(for -man, -mdoc) or TeX (for Texinfo) implementation allowed
for high-quality printing, now that modern browsers are pretty
ubiquitous /and/ offer formatting capabilities on par with
*roff (and in specific areas arguably exceeding those of TeX),
I'm afraid the advantages of recommending them in the not so
uncommon "hey guys; I want to learn a good doc format, which
would you recommend?" scenario are not obvious to me.
Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netnospam.invalid> wrote:dd
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.
I'd be curious of the reasoning behind such a conclusion?
Because info is better for documents that have structure. I am
referring to technical documents the size of a book.
In the browser you only have back and forward, which in GNU info correspond to 'l' (last) and 'r' (revisit).
In info you have 'p' (previous) and 'n' (next), for moving within a
level and 'u' for going up one level. You don;t have that in any
browser. IIRC the HTML standard mentions that kind of structure of a
document, but no web browser ever has bothered to implement
keybindings or buttons for those actions.
Hello,
normally in my shell scripts I use the classics, such as grep, sed, awk,
cut, sort, uniq, a bit of Perl etc.
I recently learned about the existence of "mlr"
https://miller.readthedocs.io/en/6.8.0/
, "datamash",
https://www.gnu.org/software/datamash/manual/datamash.html/
"jq",
https://jqlang.github.io/jq/
"q",
https://harelba.github.io/q/
and "sqlet"
https://www.sqlet.com/
which intrigued me and made me think about other tools that I
might be missing.
Any obvious candidates for text mangling?
Pointers much appreciated!
Thanks and best regards,
Axel
On 2023-06-10, Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> wrote:
To help with the manual, there is a HTML-ized version with internal hyperlinks and a navigable, collapsible table of contents.
There is also a library function doc which fires off a request
to open a browser to a document section, by symbol. e.g.
(doc 'cons)
Are there any other resources for learning, more along the lines of a
tutorial or a classic textbook?
Unfortunately, no.
There should be decent knowledge/skill transfer from some basic Lisp tutorials
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.On 2023-06-10, Javier wrote:
I'd be curious of the reasoning behind such a conclusion?
You are missing QSV, CSVQ, CSVIEW, CSVLENS and TYPS.
Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netNOSPAM.invalid> writes:
For that kind of manual the best format is texinfo.On 2023-06-10, Javier wrote:
I'd be curious of the reasoning behind such a conclusion?
[snip]
With the influx of less nerdy content creators [in the mid-90s] easier formats were needed. No, Docbook, SGML, XML were not filling that need.
Look at how common light markup languages (Markdown, reStructured text, asciidoc(tor), Emacs org-mode) are nowadays, even for websites. Most
(all?) of them allow for cross-target publishing from a single source that
is readable even in raw format. Asciidoc allows for index creation. But
many websites are much less structured than a scientific thesis, so for
me, after using asciidoc for a while, it has become org-mode.
While this some historical context, I think there are technical reasons
as well: Texinfo AFAIK does not allow for pictures and nicely rendered equations, HTML and PDF do. The toolchain for HTML is vast, for PDF it
is still much larger (due to the professional publishing business) than
for Texinfo. The latter to me nowadays seems like an ancient HTML predecessor, the comparison with Lynx for HTML is fitting.
On 2023-06-11, Eric <eric@deptj.eu> wrote:
< --------
Halibut.
FAQ:
] Why on earth ‘Halibut’? What relevance does the name have to anything? ]
] Historical reasons. It's probably better not to ask.
For those versed in childish word games of the English language,
the name clearly communicates why the author started the project:
"just for the hell of it".
:)
Dr Eberhard W Lisse <nospam@lisse.NA> writes:
You are missing QSV, CSVQ, CSVIEW, CSVLENS and TYPS.
All look great from a quick glance, except for TYPS, which I could not
find easily. URL?
Thanks, very helpful!
Axel
On 2023-06-12, Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> wrote:
All look great from a quick glance, except for TYPS, which I could not
find easily. URL?
TYPST I suspect - https://github.com/typst/typst
Hello,Perl does sort/cut/grep/awk/sed and lots more.
normally in my shell scripts I use the classics, such as grep, sed, awk,
cut, sort, uniq, a bit of Perl etc.
I recently learned about the existence of "mlr"
https://miller.readthedocs.io/en/6.8.0/
, "datamash",
https://www.gnu.org/software/datamash/manual/datamash.html/
"jq",
https://jqlang.github.io/jq/
"q",
https://harelba.github.io/q/
and "sqlet"
https://www.sqlet.com/
which intrigued me and made me think about other tools that I
might be missing.
Any obvious candidates for text mangling?
Pointers much appreciated!
Thanks and best regards,
Axel
On 2023-06-08, Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> wrote:
Hello,
normally in my shell scripts I use the classics, such as grep, sed, awk,
cut, sort, uniq, a bit of Perl etc.
[...]
Perl does sort/cut/grep/awk/sed and lots more.
With awk you have already grep, sed, cut, sort [in gawk],
uniq, "and lots more".[*]
So if that's all one needs (or if you are working in a POSIX
environment) one may (or has to) prefer the small and simple awk, and
a (POSIX) shell.
Feeling myself tortured with 'info'-pages and with hints in some 'man'-page(-stub) that relevant information is only available in
'info'-pages I wonder whether there's some tool that extracts or
dumps (structured or not) the 'info' page information to create
some "all in one" page (in *roff, HTML, or plain text format)?
(With all the hypertext links it's probably a desperate wish but
maybe someone had a good idea implemented.)
Janis
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 498 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 05:37:26 |
| Calls: | 9,821 |
| Files: | 13,757 |
| Messages: | 6,190,554 |