On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:19, Jeremy Bícha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> wrote: >The Trixie Freeze Schedule was released [1] this week, with dates

later than we had originally expected when compared with the bookworm
freeze schedule. I think it is possible for us to include GNOME 48 in
Trixie so this starts discussion about whether to do that.

Calendar Summary
==========

GNOME [2]
----------
2025-02-01 GNOME 48 Beta tarball deadline. This is also GNOME's UI,
API, and Feature Freeze. For the past several release cycles, this is
when we start landing the new GNOME in Debian Unstable (and Ubuntu's >development release).
2025-03-01 GNOME 48 RC tarball deadline
2025-03-15 GNOME 48.0 tarball deadline
2025-03-19 GNOME 48.0 release: This is a firm announcement/release
date. Every other date on GNOME's calendar are tarball deadlines with
the announced release days later.
2025-04-12 GNOME 48.1 tarball deadline
2025-05-** GNOME 48.2 tarball deadline. Not announced yet. My guess is
it's after May 15 though.

Debian [1] [3]
----------
2025-03-15 Transition freeze. Transitions need to be complete in
Testing by this date.
2025-04-15 Soft freeze. No new or returning packages allowed into
Testing after this.
2025-05-15 Hard freeze for key packages (includes everything that is a >dependency of gnome) and packages without autopkgtests. We would need
unblock requests starting here.

Known Transitions
==========
1. GNOME Shell/Mutter. The GNOME Shell transition is simpler now that
it's disconnected from Budgie. I got the new Mutter library package
through Debian's NEW queue already. Usually, GNOME Shell has
stabilized enough for extensions at the Beta point but no guarantee.
We have about 5 weeks to get this transition done from the beta
tarball release to transition freeze and then one more month for any >straggling extensions to get back into Trixie. For 47, most extensions
worked with a simple update to metadata.json and debian/control.

2. glib/gtk/libadwaita. There aren't any issues with these in
Experimental or in Ubuntu. glib and gtk need the most recent
development releases packaged though.

3. Rust GTK stack. There will not be a major Rust GTK stack
update/transition for GNOME 48 in response to distribution complaints
[4]. So this detail is much easier than it was for the past several
GNOME releases.

4. Glycin/rust-zbus transition [5]. Matthias Geiger has begun work on
this. It affects Loupe and GNOME Snapshot but no other GNOME Core apps
or GNOME libraries. We are waiting for some new rust-gufo* packages
and rust-jpeg-encoder in the NEW queue. Still some more work needed
but I think it's in good shape to land by early February if the NEW
review is quick. Rust crates generally don't have versioned binary
packages and therefore these transitions are not managed by the Debian >Release Team currently.

Pretty much everything is staged in exp; and I was able tho build
src:glycin 1.2~alpha with the gufo* packages from NEW, This will land
image editing in Loupe, which will be a great thing to have for trixie.

5. evolution-data-server. I already packaged the 48 Alpha release of
the evolution* stack in Experimental and there is not a soname
transition this time.

6. Evince. Evince 48 Beta is expected to switch to GTK4. This would
break everything using the Evince libraries (denemo, gnome-sushi, >phosh-plugins, sugar-browse-activity, sugar-read-activity). Therefore,
my plan is to package the new Evince in Experimental for evaluation.
(I tried to do this for Evince 48 Alpha but the release was
incomplete, mistakenly leaving out the gtk4 commits [6].) We would
need a new source package, evince3, to repackage Evince 46, possibly
only the libraries and not the app itself. Evince doesn't affect the
rest of the GNOME stack really so we could choose to remain with 46 if
we want.

7. tracker -> tinysparql and tracker-miners -> localsearch. This is
leftover from GNOME 47. Fedora and Ubuntu have yet to do this
transition either. It is not required to otherwise package GNOME 47 or
48. The renames are waiting in the NEW queue for experimental and then
we need to verify whether the transition is smooth enough.

8. I still think switching from gnome-terminal to ptyxis would be a
good idea but I think we are blocked by bash [7] and possibly a screen
reader regression [8]

Conclusion
==========
That's a lot of details but I think we are in good shape to proceed
with generally shipping GNOME 48. GNOME Shell and Glycin are the only
core transitions we need.

We should be able to get GNOME 48 RC in before the Transition Freeze
and 48.1 in before the Hard Freeze. After that, we need unblocks or
(soon enough) Stable Release Manager approval.

What about switching to Papers for 48 ? It's still stuck in NEW; though
I guess we'll want to ship evince since Papers is largely untested ?

Maybe this could be backported from forky then.

best,

werdahias

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On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 10:36 AM Zeke Williams <lakeleaf8@gmail.com> wrote:

If GNOME 48 does make it in, what is the current status on X11 for 48?
It's rather unclear right now since https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/merge_requests/99 is
still open (and locked from further commenting) so I suppose it will
still be possible to use an X session until stated otherwise? I want
to stay on X for as long as possible, so I don't want to jump to
wayland just yet. I'm not saying this as a wayland vs x11 debate, but
rather my needs still need me on X for right now.

You will still be able to use GNOME on Xorg in Debian 13 as you have
been in Debian 12, regardless of what GNOME might do upstream. Debian
13 is not Fedora 41. 🙂

There were some changes in GDM's udev rules where Wayland may be
preferred in situations where it wasn't in Debian 12, but this doesn't
force you to use Wayland.

It's possible that Debian 14 "Forky" will not install the GNOME on
Xorg session by default but that won't be released as stable until
2027.

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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The Trixie Freeze Schedule was released [1] this week, with dates
later than we had originally expected when compared with the bookworm
freeze schedule. I think it is possible for us to include GNOME 48 in
Trixie so this starts discussion about whether to do that.

Calendar Summary
==========

GNOME [2]
----------
2025-02-01 GNOME 48 Beta tarball deadline. This is also GNOME's UI,
API, and Feature Freeze. For the past several release cycles, this is
when we start landing the new GNOME in Debian Unstable (and Ubuntu's development release).
2025-03-01 GNOME 48 RC tarball deadline
2025-03-15 GNOME 48.0 tarball deadline
2025-03-19 GNOME 48.0 release: This is a firm announcement/release
date. Every other date on GNOME's calendar are tarball deadlines with
the announced release days later.
2025-04-12 GNOME 48.1 tarball deadline
2025-05-** GNOME 48.2 tarball deadline. Not announced yet. My guess is
it's after May 15 though.

Debian [1] [3]
----------
2025-03-15 Transition freeze. Transitions need to be complete in
Testing by this date.
2025-04-15 Soft freeze. No new or returning packages allowed into
Testing after this.
2025-05-15 Hard freeze for key packages (includes everything that is a dependency of gnome) and packages without autopkgtests. We would need
unblock requests starting here.

Known Transitions
==========
1. GNOME Shell/Mutter. The GNOME Shell transition is simpler now that
it's disconnected from Budgie. I got the new Mutter library package
through Debian's NEW queue already. Usually, GNOME Shell has
stabilized enough for extensions at the Beta point but no guarantee.
We have about 5 weeks to get this transition done from the beta
tarball release to transition freeze and then one more month for any
straggling extensions to get back into Trixie. For 47, most extensions
worked with a simple update to metadata.json and debian/control.

2. glib/gtk/libadwaita. There aren't any issues with these in
Experimental or in Ubuntu. glib and gtk need the most recent
development releases packaged though.

3. Rust GTK stack. There will not be a major Rust GTK stack
update/transition for GNOME 48 in response to distribution complaints
[4]. So this detail is much easier than it was for the past several
GNOME releases.

4. Glycin/rust-zbus transition [5]. Matthias Geiger has begun work on
this. It affects Loupe and GNOME Snapshot but no other GNOME Core apps
or GNOME libraries. We are waiting for some new rust-gufo* packages
and rust-jpeg-encoder in the NEW queue. Still some more work needed
but I think it's in good shape to land by early February if the NEW
review is quick. Rust crates generally don't have versioned binary
packages and therefore these transitions are not managed by the Debian
Release Team currently.

5. evolution-data-server. I already packaged the 48 Alpha release of
the evolution* stack in Experimental and there is not a soname
transition this time.

6. Evince. Evince 48 Beta is expected to switch to GTK4. This would
break everything using the Evince libraries (denemo, gnome-sushi, phosh-plugins, sugar-browse-activity, sugar-read-activity). Therefore,
my plan is to package the new Evince in Experimental for evaluation.
(I tried to do this for Evince 48 Alpha but the release was
incomplete, mistakenly leaving out the gtk4 commits [6].) We would
need a new source package, evince3, to repackage Evince 46, possibly
only the libraries and not the app itself. Evince doesn't affect the
rest of the GNOME stack really so we could choose to remain with 46 if
we want.

7. tracker -> tinysparql and tracker-miners -> localsearch. This is
leftover from GNOME 47. Fedora and Ubuntu have yet to do this
transition either. It is not required to otherwise package GNOME 47 or
48. The renames are waiting in the NEW queue for experimental and then
we need to verify whether the transition is smooth enough.

8. I still think switching from gnome-terminal to ptyxis would be a
good idea but I think we are blocked by bash [7] and possibly a screen
reader regression [8]

Conclusion
==========
That's a lot of details but I think we are in good shape to proceed
with generally shipping GNOME 48. GNOME Shell and Glycin are the only
core transitions we need.

We should be able to get GNOME 48 RC in before the Transition Freeze
and 48.1 in before the Hard Freeze. After that, we need unblocks or
(soon enough) Stable Release Manager approval.

References
==========
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2025/01/msg00004.html
[2] https://release.gnome.org/calendar/
[3] https://release.debian.org/testing/freeze_policy.html
[4] https://github.com/gtk-rs/gtk-rs-core/discussions/1466
[5] https://salsa.debian.org/rust-team/debcargo-conf/-/issues/111
[6] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evince/-/issues/2071
[7] https://bugs.debian.org/675008
[8] https://gitlab.gnome.org/chergert/ptyxis/-/issues/310

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 10:19 AM Jeremy Bícha
<jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> wrote:

2. glib/gtk/libadwaita. There aren't any issues with these in
Experimental or in Ubuntu. glib and gtk need the most recent
development releases packaged though.

I updated glib and it still looks good.

gtk4 is out of date and needs a few fixes (FTBFS on mips64el, also https://bugs.debian.org/1093335 )

Most GNOME stuff doesn't need the new GTK4 yet. libadwaita doesn't.

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 10:19 AM Jeremy Bícha
<jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> wrote:

The Trixie Freeze Schedule was released [1] this week, with dates
later than we had originally expected when compared with the bookworm
freeze schedule. I think it is possible for us to include GNOME 48 in
Trixie so this starts discussion about whether to do that.

I haven't received any negative feedback on this proposal, so I intend
to announce this goal more broadly on Monday and start implementing it
then. The GNOME 48 Beta tarball deadline is tomorrow, so based on our
previous experience with packaging GNOME, we can start pushing
components of GNOME 48 Beta to Unstable next week.

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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We are 4 weeks from Transition Freeze and here's an update:

- Most of GNOME 48 Beta is in Testing or just waiting a few more days
to age before reaching Testing
- I did a delayed NMU for fast-float which will allow us to upload the
new vte2.91, gnome-terminal, and ptyxis to Unstable in a few days
- librsvg 2.59.90 managed to build on mips64el. I think this was luck
since other packages are still affected by
https://bugs.debian.org/1093200

- tinysparql (renamed tracker) was accepted into Experimental.
However, I decided to keep using the tracker-miners name for now
instead of renaming it to localsearch to match the new upstream
rename. We need to do more testing but we may be able to do the
tinysparql 3.8 transition soon for Trixie. We may stay on the 3.8
series for Trixie because some other distros are hesitant about this
change in 3.9: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/localsearch/-/merge_requests/579 - I packaged Evince 48 Alpha but ended up having the ftpmasters reject
it from Debian NEW because it had regressions compared to Evince 46.
Evince upstream is not being maintained well which is why the Papers
fork exists. I don't see a point to a GTK4 version of Evince and a
GTK4 version of it doesn't actually exist anyway. We can discuss the
Papers app more in a separate thread.

- We haven't done any work yet to package the new Adwaita fonts. There
was an idea to build the Adwaita Sans font from the fonts-inter
source: https://bugs.debian.org/1093547
That wouldn't work for Adwaita Mono now because fonts-iosevka isn't in
Debian. But we never ended up using Adobe Source Code Pro which had
been GNOME's default Mono font since 2019.
- Speaking of fonts, we'll probably swap Cantarell to the variable
version. You'll need to log out and log back in after updating the
font package (which is required any time you update your UI font). https://bugs.debian.org/1095147

- The current blockers for getting GNOME Shell 48 into Unstable are:
+ https://bugs.debian.org/1096037 fixing Mutter autopkgtests
+ Significantly reducing the number of packaged GNOME Shell extensions
that aren't ready for GNOME Shell 48: https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/bts-usertags.cgi?user=pkg-gnome-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org&tag=gnome-shell-48
- It is expected that GNOME Shell 48 Beta or RC won't be completely
smooth. Getting it to more users sooner who can report detailed bugs
upstream will help us get a smoother 48.1.

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 10:36 AM Zeke Williams <lakeleaf8@gmail.com> wrote:

If GNOME 48 does make it in, what is the current status on X11 for 48?
It's rather unclear right now since https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/merge_requests/99 is
still open (and locked from further commenting) so I suppose it will
still be possible to use an X session until stated otherwise? I want
to stay on X for as long as possible, so I don't want to jump to
wayland just yet. I'm not saying this as a wayland vs x11 debate, but
rather my needs still need me on X for right now.

Do you have any more specifics about what your needs for Xorg support
are? GNOME developers appear to want to remove Xorg support during the
Forky release cycle. It looks to me like some of the developers think
that GNOME on Wayland already fulfills all use cases as of GNOME 48 so
we need to provide input if we know of use cases that they may not be considering.

Are you using GNOME 48 yet? In other words, are you using Trixie or Unstable?

Thank you,
Jeremy Bícha

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