Hi,
For now I'm cc-ing debian-boot@ for information. Feel free to adjust recipients as you see fit.
Writing with my D-I release manager hat: Over time it seems newer
laptops are getting equipped with Wi-Fi 7 chips, which we don't
support currently. If I got the gist right, we support older chips implementing the wext interface (via wpa_supplicant). Newer chips
require going through nl80111. Not so old chips might be able to
deal with both wext and nl80211. In any case, I'd like to be able
to test what's happening with brand new chips, to make sure the
possible dual support doesn't get in the way.
Looking around, it looks like they're only found in laptops in the
1000+ EUR range (main criteria: Wi-Fi 7 capable, and deliverable to
France).
A while back, Jonathan Carter ACKed the purchase of two middle/high
end laptops riddled with firmware because that made sense at the
time: trying to find ways to get systems installed, and workarounds documented (this was for Debian 11). Those were also much helpful
when the (latest) GR about firmware passed, and they played a
crucial role in getting things lined up for Debian 12. They're still
pretty useful for all the firmware-related work and rework that we
have to do for new features, to fix old bugs, etc.
If we were able to find something cheap-ish with Wi-Fi 7, e.g.
around 500 EUR, I think it would make sense to have something
self-contained to play with. Given my main focus is really Wi-Fi 7
support, 1000+ EUR seems too much.
Therefore I'd like to investigate external adapters. There seem to
be a bunch of options available in the 50-100 EUR range. Would you
approve the purchase of one or more such devices, for say up to 300
EUR total?
For example:
- MSI BE6500 (~ 80 EUR)
- NEWFAST BE6500 (~ 70 EUR)
- TP-Link BE6500 (~ 70 EUR)
I haven't really looked into the specific of each (BE6500 comes up a
lot I suppose this is a standard chip that's integrated by various
vendors), but I'd need to make sure it's supported by the trixie
kernel of course (and if needed, firmware available in trixie).
If it's determined that a full laptop is easier (and provided we
don't expect it to be completely unsupported under Linux 6.12), I'd
be fine with that option as a fallback plan. I don't want random
hardware to pile up at my place, but an extra laptop is still an
acceptable hardware addition at this stage…
The first step is to make sure the code we're thinking about adding
to netcfg (managing the network in d-i) will indeed flag those cards
and only those as unsupported, so that we can point users to some documentation. I think Pascal is rather convinced of the proposed implementation, but I'd like to double check with actual hardware.
The second step would be trying to add support to netcfg. It seems
unlikely to happen before trixie is released, but if we can manage
to implement and test that a little after, and feel confident
enough, this could be considered for a backport through a point
release.
Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
--
Cyril Brulebois (kibi@debian.org) <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant
If we were able to find something cheap-ish with Wi-Fi 7, e.g.
around 500 EUR, I think it would make sense to have something
self-contained to play with. Given my main focus is really Wi-Fi 7
support, 1000+ EUR seems too much.
thank you for the extensive explanation what is needed and how we can approach this for a minimum price. From my point of view we should not
only evaluate the price but also your effort to get it in some easily testable shape. If this would be another laptop that's fine for me. In
case Laptops pile up at your place for testing you might like to hand
over one of the older models to some other DD if you consider a new one
for a good replacement.
In short: I'll approve your request even for a 1000€ laptop if this
is the best solution for your case.
On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 05:38:04AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
If we were able to find something cheap-ish with Wi-Fi 7, e.g.
around 500 EUR, I think it would make sense to have something self-contained to play with. Given my main focus is really Wi-Fi 7
support, 1000+ EUR seems too much.
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=18749_802.11be lists notebook with
Wi-Fi 7 interface. The Lenovo IdeaPad Slim 3 has Wi-Fi 7 and sells for
under 600 Euros, while the Dell Inspiron 14 5441 (an ARM notebook)
also has Wi-Fi 7 and is in the same price range. Lenovo also has ARM
noteboks with Wi-Fi 7.
If it is easier to order a notebook to Germany, I can do that and
bring the machine to Brest.
Marc Haber <mh+debian-boot@zugschlus.de> (2025-05-25):
On Sun, May 25, 2025 at 05:38:04AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
If we were able to find something cheap-ish with Wi-Fi 7, e.g.
around 500 EUR, I think it would make sense to have something
self-contained to play with. Given my main focus is really Wi-Fi 7
support, 1000+ EUR seems too much.
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=18749_802.11be lists notebook with
Wi-Fi 7 interface. The Lenovo IdeaPad Slim 3 has Wi-Fi 7 and sells for
under 600 Euros, while the Dell Inspiron 14 5441 (an ARM notebook)
also has Wi-Fi 7 and is in the same price range. Lenovo also has ARM
noteboks with Wi-Fi 7.
Thanks a lot, that's much more reasonable than what I had seen so far.
I'm seeing very different specs on various websites, but the Lenovo
website makes everything clear: some models can be configured and
“IdeaPad Slim 3 Gen 10 (14" AMD)” is in that category, with wireless >options being:
- Wi-Fi 6 2x2 AX and Bluetooth® 5.3
- Wi-Fi 7 2x2 BE 160 MHz and Bluetooth® 5.4
(10 EUR difference…)
I sleep on this and probably order from Lenovo directly (making extra
sure what's under the hood).
I'm almost tempted by the idea of an ARM-based laptop, but I'm a little >afraid this might drag me into some different, possibly deeper rabbit
hole, so I'll investigate such things on my own dime, later… :)
If it is easier to order a notebook to Germany, I can do that and
bring the machine to Brest.
Thanks for the offer, much appreciated. Hopefully that won't be needed.
I would really love to see the Installer tested on an ARM notebook. I am pretty sure that my current T14 AMD¹ will be my last notebook with an x86 processor.
Sadly, the Geizhals database is not always exact-to-the-point in those technical details.
Maybe you can get an even stiffer discount or order via the DD program?
I would really love to see the Installer tested on an ARM notebook.
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