Forum: >>> Magnum BBS <<<

Re: too late to the party?

From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 23 13:17:05 2024

Copy: debianlist@potentially-spam.de-bruyn.de (DdB)

I don’t really have anything to address regarding most of your questions below, but I can tell you that I personally enjoy using KDE on Debian. I run the KDE packages from Debian testing, which I would expect to be a bit less stable, but it has been a while since I have had problems with KDE crashing.

On Friday, August 23, 2024 6:00:39 AM MST DdB wrote:

Hello,

first things first:
I am surprised about the very low volume of this list, maybe because
other lists have much more traffic. Could it be, that the party has
already moved elsewhere, and i am too late?

I did install KDE in bookworm for the first time, (fed up with many
years of GNOME before that), and have seen a couple of pleasant
surprises. But also quite a big lack of experience on my side ... don't
know how to and stuff like that ...

Several issues are bugging me:
1. I can't get Window rules to work, neither for wayland nor for x11, i
seem to be doing those wrong.
2. I would really like to have a clickable menu only with my own commands/scripts in it, preferably configured in one single file, not
spread out over many. Is such a thing available?
3. Some applications are not listed by wmctrl -l as if they were not
managed by the window manager, therefore i cannot move them around in my scripts (and windows rules ... i told ya)
4. True story: after just one day of living in the new environment, it crashed hard, all the open applications were gone. Could be a strange
rare incident, whereas, in buster-gnome, i had such a thing happen to me
only about 4 times per year!

Could this be an indicator, that the devs have already moved to new
horizons?

I am a solitaire retired old guy, thus slow and whatnot. But i am trying
to set up a stable + reproducible environment for the years to come, my
old environment (still in use every day), is an unsupported old-old-stable.

any comment/hint/suggestion warmly welcome, DdB

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org
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From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 23 15:02:44 2024

Copy: debianlist@potentially-spam.de-bruyn.de (DdB)

On Friday, August 23, 2024 2:54:17 PM MST DdB wrote:

Well, since i want something stable, and testing by definition is not
stable, i guess, i'll defer your suggestion to the days, when i have
the resources to create a playground install to play with testing,

Mostly I like testing because I am not patient enough to wait for new features. Thinking about it, I don’t know if I have ever had KDE crash the entire system. However, I have had individual applications in KDE become unusable from time to time. For example, KMail and Akonadi (the database backend) had a particular period of instability in testing a few years ago. I don’t think any of that reached stable, so if stability is more important than
new features stable is the place for you.

Note that if you use any feature of KDE that renders untrusted HTML using Qt WebEngine (KMail, a browser based on Qt WebEngine like Konqueror, Falkon, Privacy Browser, etc.) I would recommend that you install the security updates for Qt WebEngine from bookworm-backports.

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qtwebengine-opensource-src

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org
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From Salvo Tomaselli@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 23 23:30:01 2024

Judging from the email address, probably just a troll.

--
Salvo Tomaselli

"Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno."
-- Galileo Galilei

https://ltworf.codeberg.page/

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From Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 03:10:01 2024

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

On Friday, 23 August 2024 18:02:44 -04 Soren Stoutner wrote:

On Friday, August 23, 2024 2:54:17 PM MST DdB wrote:

Well, since i want something stable, and testing by definition is
not
stable, i guess, i'll defer your suggestion to the days, when i have
the resources to create a playground install to play with testing,

Mostly I like testing because I am not patient enough to wait for new features. Thinking about it, I don’t know if I have ever had KDE
crash the entire system. However, I have had individual applications
in KDE become unusable from time to time. For example, KMail and
Akonadi (the database backend) had a particular period of instability
in testing a few years ago. I don’t think any of that reached
stable, so if stability is more important than new features stable is
the place for you.

Note that if you use any feature of KDE that renders untrusted HTML
using Qt WebEngine (KMail, a browser based on Qt WebEngine like
Konqueror, Falkon, Privacy Browser, etc.) I would recommend that you
install the security updates for Qt WebEngine from
bookworm-backports.

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qtwebengine-opensource-src

Dear Soren et all,
I think that there is a slight misunderstanding about what "Debian Stable" means. Please
see

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStability[1]
Esepecially this part:
"This is what Debian's Stable name means: that, once released, the operating system
remains relatively unchanging over time."

Have a nice day (or night for that matter)
Eike

--
Eike Lantzsch KY4PZ / ZP5CGE

--------
[1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStability

<html>
<head>
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<body>On Friday, 23 August 2024 18:02:44 -04 Soren Stoutner wrote:
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 2:54:17 PM MST DdB wrote:
> > Well, since i want something stable, and testing by definition is
> > not
> > stable, i guess, i'll defer your suggestion to the days, when i have
> > the resources to create a playground install to play with testing,
<p style="mar

From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 23 18:20:26 2024

Eike,

On Friday, August 23, 2024 6:09:25 PM MST Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ wrote:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStability[1]
Esepecially this part:
"This is what Debian's Stable name means: that, once released, the operating system remains relatively unchanging over time."

I don’t necessarily disagree with you as to why it was named stable. But, as
a user of Debian for my daily driver for 25 years, I think there is no doubt that Debian stable is more stable in the manner being described here than Debian testing. (Think of those periodic emails when something serious breaks that say, “That’s why it is called testing.”)

But along those lines, when talking to users who aren’t familiar with Debian and are sometimes put off by the name testing, I tell them that Debian testing is simply the rolling release. In fact, I would probably consider it the most stable of all rolling Linux releases. So, if you are the type of person who updates your packages every day, you probably can’t do better than Debian testing.

That being said, when KDE 6 drops into testing soon, I expect there to be a few days where not everything works. That’s just par for the course.

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org
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From Rainer Dorsch@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 26 18:22:27 2024

Am Samstag, 24. August 2024, 07:57:46 MESZ schrieb DdB:

Am 24.08.2024 um 03:09 schrieb Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ:

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStability
Esepecially this part:
"This is what Debian's Stable name means: that, once released, the operating system remains relatively unchanging over time."

That is what i used uptil now, and it received changes throu security
channel and thru backports as well. To use testing requires more
know-how, more awareness (like reading about current development and
possible instabilities/system changes), so more time and effort. And due
to decreasing powers due to aging and health, i am interested to cut
down on maintenance times.

AFAIK there is never a good way of going back from testing to stable, as
that would create a much feared frankendebian. One day, i might go for dual-booting (stable + testing), which i am having right now also (old-old-stable + a safe copy of it = SOS + the system, i am configuring right now = bookworm/KDE)

I started to experiment with Manjaro I think about a year ago now. The stable version currently has e.g.

KMail
Version 6.1.2 (24.05.2)

KDE Frameworks
Version 6.5.0

Qt
Version 6.7.2

Updates come about once per month vs. every 18 to 24 months for Debian stable. Usually the updates are smooth, but if there is a problem, I have the impression the Debian community has far more expertise than the Manjaro community (maybe the real experise is in the Arch community).

For an experience with latest greatest software, Manjaro is a good choice for me. For maximum stability, I prefer Debian.

Regards
Rainer
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From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 26 12:26:52 2024

Copy: debianlist@potentially-spam.de-bruyn.de (DdB)

DdB,

On Saturday, August 24, 2024 2:47:43 PM MST DdB wrote:

Today it crashed once more, same situation: Computer busy with many
things (my habitual style) and while draging a window to the side,
Arkonadi got a heart attack, and no recovery possible, except reboot,
with loss of data from open apps. :-(

Did your system produce any logs that would be helpful in filing a bug report?
I’m sure that the whole project would benefit for resolving whatever the problem ends up being.

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org
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From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 27 09:17:00 2024

Copy: debianlist@potentially-spam.de-bruyn.de (DdB)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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On Tuesday, August 27, 2024 2:12:42 AM MST DdB wrote:

and kern.log has a couple of lines like so:

2024-08-27T10:59:05.841919+02:00 SuperServer kernel: [ 653.677528] traps: rasdaemon[113603] trap stack segment ip:7f240462271b sp:7f2040ff7a00 error:0 in libsqlite3.so.0.8.6[7f240454f000+f4000] 2024-08-27T10:59:13.593919+02:00 SuperServer kernel: [ 661.430020] traps: rasdaemon[114618] trap stack segment ip:7f451d1e17f4 sp:7f42baffba20 error:0

... about 200 of them, and closely about the time, when the system went
down. So at first glance, i wouldnt think, this to be kde related. What
do you think?

Google indicates rasdaemon has to do with hardware memory errors. If I were you I
would scan the system with Memtest86+.

https://www.memtest.org/[1]

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org

--------
[1] https://www.memtest.org/

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<body>On Tuesday, August 27, 2024 2:12:42 AM MST DdB wrote:
> and kern.log has a couple of lines like so:
> > 2024-08-27T10:59:05.841919+02:00 SuperServer kernel: [  653.677528] traps:
> > rasdaemon[113603] trap stack segment ip:7f240462271b sp:7f2040ff7a00
> > error:0 in libsqlite3.so.0.8.6[7f240454f000+f4000]
> > 2024-08-27T10:59:13.593919+02:00 SuperServer kernel: [  661.430020] traps:
> > rasdaemon[114618] trap stack segment ip:7f451d1e17f4 sp:7f42baffba20
> > error:0
> ... about 200 of them, and closely about the time, when the system went
> down. So at first glance, i wouldnt think, this to be kde related. What
> do you think?
 Google indicates rasdaemon has to do with hardware memory errors.  If I were you I would scan the system with Memtest86+.
 <a href="https://www.memtest.org/">https://www.memtest.org/</a>
 -- 
Soren Stoutner
soren@debian.org
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From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to DdB on Wed Aug 28 00:20:01 2024

According to the upstream documentation, rasdaemon particularly has to do with ECC errors (not all of which are correctable).

https://github.com/alexandrelimassantana/rasdaemon

On August 27, 2024 2:12:10 PM MST, DdB <debianlist@potentially-spam.de-bruyn.de> wrote:

Am 27.08.2024 um 18:17 schrieb Soren Stoutner:

Google indicates rasdaemon has to do with hardware memory errors. If I
were you I would scan the system with Memtest86+.

Wow! That seems extremely unlikely to me, because my hardware has lots
of ECC RAM, which means, RAM errors should

1. self correct
and
2. produce a different kind of message

from dmesg: ECC is properly recognized and EDAC is running

[ 8.334662] EDAC MC0: Giving out device to module amd64_edac controller F17h_M30h: DEV 0000:00:18.3 (INTERRUPT)
[ 8.335358] EDAC amd64: Node 1: DRAM ECC enabled.

That is why i dont think, memtest would even work as expected.

Will consider it anyhow, once the machine is less busy.

--
Soren Stoutner
soren@stoutner.com

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Re: too late to the party?

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