Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Greetings
Marc

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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Le 31/01/2022 à 11:10, Marc Haber a écrit :

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Greetings
Marc

Hi, kwin-wayland looks like a good starting point if you don't have any evidence that the fault comes from another piece of the puzzle, of which
there are many.
My experience in Unstable using KDE+wayland as a daily driver is
generally good, with a few quirks in places, but nothing like what you
are experiencing. My machines are either desktop with AMD graphics or
Intel laptops with integrated graphics, what is you setup ?

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On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 02:42:06PM +0100, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:

Le 31/01/2022 à 11:10, Marc Haber a écrit :

show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Greetings
Marc

Hi, kwin-wayland looks like a good starting point if you don't have any evidence that the fault comes from another piece of the puzzle, of which there are many.
My experience in Unstable using KDE+wayland as a daily driver is generally good, with a few quirks in places, but nothing like what you are experiencing. My machines are either desktop with AMD graphics or Intel laptops with integrated graphics, what is you setup ?

The machine I tried this on is my desktop computer at the office, with a
Ryzen t 4650G, using CPU graphics, using amdgpu, with one 4K monitor and
one smaller one.

Greetings
Marc

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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On Monday, 31 January 2022 11:10:35 CET Marc Haber wrote:

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Here on old lenovo laptop with intel integrated gpu and external 4k monitor . The experience is, all in all, way better than what it was with X11.
Chris

Greetings
Marc

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Le 01/02/2022 à 20:09, chris a écrit :

On Monday, 31 January 2022 11:10:35 CET Marc Haber wrote:

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian
unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Here on old lenovo laptop with intel integrated gpu and external 4k monitor . The experience is, all in all, way better than what it was with X11.
Chris

Greetings
Marc

Same experience here, it is not perfect but on some machines it is
already much better than Xorg, Intel integrated graphics in particular.
Not to say kwin wayland is short of bugs:

https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&content=wayland&no_redirect=1&order=changeddate%20DESC%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&product=kwin&query_format=specific

Surprisingly my son switched to wayland on AMD desktop GPU after
noticing that games were running faster most of the time.

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On Wednesday, 16 February 2022 09:40:25 CET Libor Klepáč wrote:

On Út, 2022-02-01 at 20:09 +0100, chris wrote:

On Monday, 31 January 2022 11:10:35 CET Marc Haber wrote:

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The
Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had
to
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current
Debian
unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Here on old lenovo laptop with intel integrated gpu and external 4k
monitor .
The experience is, all in all, way better than what it was with X11.
Chris

Hi,
how did you deal with screen layout changes when disconnecting laptop
from external monitor?
I mean - on xwindows, when i connect my laptop to dock, my primary
screen moves to external monitor, when i disconnect it moves back.

Hum, my x230 is an old one with 1366x768 screen. With x11, when I was plugin the external monitor, it was very very bumpy.

Until you tell me, I didn't know you could unplug external monitor without having to reinstall the system altogether. I mean, I'm glad to hear that you can do that without too much struggle.

With wayland, all panels and windows stayed on laptop screen, when I
plugged laptop to dock.

Yes, I think the primary screen feature is still missing on Wayland. Not long ago, after some system upgrade, builtin and external monitor, widget and all, swapped. At that time I didn't find a way to put that straight back, so I reconfigured the "look" from scratch. But at least the screen resolution was detected correctly.

Wayland is a work in progress. For what I've understood, x11 is no longer a work in progress. So I thought, if you have an issue with the compositor, switch to Wayland, and open an issue.

I wanted to try wayland, because my browsers (edge, chromium) sometimes
does this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRIkewXZga4

and i think it's xwindows related

Libor

Greetings
Marc

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well...
- on a laptop with integrated graphics controller it works :=)
- on a desktop with separate NVDIA card it doesn't even start (!)

As the saying is: your mileage may vary.

Op vr 18 feb. 2022 om 15:51 schreef Leonid . <cppleo@ya.ru>:

You should use X.org. Wayland is bad-wokring now.
IMHO, if you aren't wayland developer you should forget this unstable tech
:)

31.01.2022, 15:10, "Marc Haber" <mh+debian-kde@zugschlus.de>:

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Greetings
Marc

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

--

--
Luc Castermans
mailto:luc.castermans@gmail.com

<div dir="ltr"><div>well... <br></div><div>- on a laptop with integrated graphics controller it works :=)</div><div>- on a desktop with separate NVDIA card it doesn&#39;t even start (!)<br></div><div><br></div><div>As the saying is:   your mileage may
vary.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op vr 18 feb. 2022 om 15:51 schreef Leonid . &lt;<a href="mailto:cppleo@ya.ru">cppleo@ya.ru</a>&gt;:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>You should use X.org. Wayland is bad-wokring now.</div><div>IMHO, if you aren&#39;t wayland developer you should forget this unstable tech :)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>31.01.
2022, 15:10, &quot;Marc Haber&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:mh%2Bdebian-kde@zugschlus.de" target="_blank">mh+debian-kde@zugschlus.de</a>&gt;:</div><blockquote><p>Hi,<br><br>I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels<br>show, but
don&#39;t accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).<br>&quot;Leave&quot; in the desktop&#39;s right-click menu didn&#39;t work either, had to<br>Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.<br><br>Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland
session in current Debian<br>unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?<br><br>Greetings<br>Marc<br><br></p><span>-- <br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Marc Haber | &quot;I don&#39;t
trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header<br>Leimen, Germany | lose things.&quot; Winona Ryder | Fon: *<span>49 6224 1600402</span><br>Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *<span>49 6224 1600421</span><br><br></span></
blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div><br></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Luc Castermans<br>mailto:<a href="mailto:luc.castermans@gmail.com" target="_blank">luc.castermans@
gmail.com</a></div>

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Le 18/02/2022 à 15:45, Leonid. a écrit :

You should use X.org. Wayland is bad-wokring now.
IMHO, if you aren't wayland developer you should forget this unstable tech :)

31.01.2022, 15:10, "Marc Haber" <mh+debian-kde@zugschlus.de>:

Hi,

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).
"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

Is this the expected beavior of a KDE Wayland session in current Debian
unstable? If not, which package deserves the bug report?

Greetings
Marc

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

--

Sorry to read that is your experience, but for me wayland, while not
perfect now, is already working better than xorg ever was on the five
Debian PC it is running on. And when I do get plasma craches, it is just
that, a plasma crash and automatic restart, not a complete system
meltdown like it used to be the case with xorg... So as long as you are
not using Nvidia proprietary driver, and you are using newer packages (I
am on unstable), I definitely recommend giving wayland a try, it's easy
enough anyway to switch between sessions.

Enjoy the options.

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Just a small related comment, with upgrade to 5.24 from a week or so ago, the panel, wallpapers, etc switched between laptop monitor and external monitor. Beside that I've noticed that there now is the possibility to select a "primary" monitor in Setting/Wayland, which I think wasn't possible before. Anyway, no big deal. But the primary monitor thing could mean no more monitor swapping in the future. At the moment, the external 4K monitor has been selected as primary: I don't know what would be the behavior were I to unplug it.

On Saturday, 19 February 2022 19:49:23 CET Leonid. wrote:

18.02.2022, 20:00, "Luc Castermans" <luc.castermans@gmail.com>:
well...
- on a laptop with integrated graphics controller it works :=)
- on a desktop with separate NVDIA card it doesn't even start (!)

I suppose problem isn't in X-server, I think problem in user :)
You should try start "ready to start" distribution for test Xorg, if you aren't sure in your configuration. For example... live-cd ubuntu image.
--

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Le 06/03/2022 à 04:19, chris a écrit :

Just a small related comment, with upgrade to 5.24 from a week or so ago, the panel, wallpapers, etc switched between laptop monitor and external monitor. Beside that I've noticed that there now is the possibility to select a "primary" monitor in Setting/Wayland, which I think wasn't possible before. Anyway, no big deal. But the primary monitor thing could mean no more monitor swapping in the future. At the moment, the external 4K monitor has been selected as primary: I don't know what would be the behavior were I to unplug it.

On Saturday, 19 February 2022 19:49:23 CET Leonid. wrote:

18.02.2022, 20:00, "Luc Castermans" <luc.castermans@gmail.com>:
well...
- on a laptop with integrated graphics controller it works :=)
- on a desktop with separate NVDIA card it doesn't even start (!)

I suppose problem isn't in X-server, I think problem in user :)
You should try start "ready to start" distribution for test Xorg, if you
aren't sure in your configuration. For example... live-cd ubuntu image.
--

Same experience here, the external TV had the desktop attributes (bar, plasmoïdes...), but manually selecting the laptop screen got things back
in order. After plugin/unplugin the secondary screen the marked primary
screen stays stable.
On several machines the shortcut that binds the app menu (using the full
screen app launcher) to the "Windows" key was unbinded. Setting it to
something random, then back to "alt+F1" did the trick. Minor stuff,
otherwise good experience so far.

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On Sunday, 6 March 2022 10:20:22 CET tv.debian wrote:

Le 06/03/2022 à 04:19, chris a écrit :

Just a small related comment, with upgrade to 5.24 from a week or so ago, the panel, wallpapers, etc switched between laptop monitor and external monitor. Beside that I've noticed that there now is the possibility to select a "primary" monitor in Setting/Wayland, which I think wasn't possible before. Anyway, no big deal. But the primary monitor thing could mean no more monitor swapping in the future. At the moment, the external
4K monitor has been selected as primary: I don't know what would be the behavior were I to unplug it.

On Saturday, 19 February 2022 19:49:23 CET Leonid. wrote:

18.02.2022, 20:00, "Luc Castermans" <luc.castermans@gmail.com>:
well...
- on a laptop with integrated graphics controller it works :=)
- on a desktop with separate NVDIA card it doesn't even start (!)

I suppose problem isn't in X-server, I think problem in user :)
You should try start "ready to start" distribution for test Xorg, if you >> aren't sure in your configuration. For example... live-cd ubuntu image.

Same experience here, the external TV had the desktop attributes (bar, plasmoïdes...), but manually selecting the laptop screen got things back
in order. After plugin/unplugin the secondary screen the marked primary screen stays stable.

In my case the attribution of screens is the other way around, the external monitor, has been automatically afaik, assigned as primary.
It seems legit since I never use the laptop screen. Laptop monitor is TN 1366x768, external monitor is 4K, IPS.
In any case I won't try high risk experiment consisting in unplugging external monitor, or changing primary attribute.
The prospect of having to spend hours to fix it is way too scary.

On several machines the shortcut that binds the app menu (using the full screen app launcher) to the "Windows" key was unbinded. Setting it to something random, then back to "alt+F1" did the trick. Minor stuff,
otherwise good experience so far.

My keyboard must be very very old because it doesn't have a windows key, viz no meta key neither. I do and have done Alt + F1 from day one. I've assigned Alt+F11 to overview.

Generally Kwin/Wayland experience is the most awesome.

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Hi,

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:10:35AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

I tried Wayland recently. Looked ok, but was hardly usable. The Panels
show, but don't accept any mouse clicks (neither left nor right).

Two months later, this situation is still the same. Panels are
unuseable in KDE Plasma in a Wayland session on my machine.

"Leave" in the desktop's right-click menu didn't work either, had to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace myself out of the session.

The desktop right-click menu works now, and one can now leave the Plasma Wayland session. Ctrl-F2 works as well, so I can now start applications
which seem to work alright.

When I start a konsole, there is no ssh-agent (probably as there is no X session, what is the mechanism to have ssh-agent in a Wayland session?),
and when I manually start an ssh-agent, connect it to my yubikey and
then ssh to a server, I don't get the prompt asking for my confirmation
to use the key. Hence, no connection.

I also do not have anything that matches "wayland" in system-settings.

My machine was built 2020, has a Ryzen 5 Pro 4650G CPU, I am using the
builtin GPU, amdgpu, I have Debian unstable and a recent kernel. The
following wayland-related packages are installed in addition to a
reasonably complete and current KDE from today:

kwayland-data, kwayland-integration, kwin-wayland,
kwin-wayland-backend-drm, libkf5waylandclient5, libkf5waylandserver5, libkwaylandserver5, libqt5waylandclient5, libqt5waylandcompositor5, libva-wayland2, libwayland-client0, libwayland-cursor0, libwayland-egl1, libwayland-server0, plasma-wayland-protocols, plasma-workspace-wayland, qtwayland5, and xwayland.

If this should work, who needs to know about the bug?

Greetings
Marc

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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Hi Marc,

Am Sonntag, 3. April 2022, 13:13:24 CEST schrieb Marc Haber:
[...]

If this should work, who needs to know about the bug?

I suggest upstream. They know much better which hardware configurations
should work and which ones cause trouble under which circumstances.


--
Med vänliga hälsningar

Patrick Franz

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

On Sunday, 3 April 2022 17:59:44 CEST Patrick Franz wrote:

Hi Marc,

Am Sonntag, 3. April 2022, 13:13:24 CEST schrieb Marc Haber:
[...]

If this should work, who needs to know about the bug?

I suggest upstream. They know much better which hardware configurations should work and which ones cause trouble under which circumstances.

There is a friendly and helpful irc channel on OTFC: ircs://irc.oftc.net/#wayland[1]
(see also: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/[2])
They've helped me a lot for bug reporting in the past, and the bugs have been fixed since.
(There is a "whitequark" log: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/[3])







--------
[1] ircs://irc.oftc.net/#wayland
[2] https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
[3] https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">On Sunday, 3 April 2022 17:59:44 CEST Patrick Franz wrote:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; Hi Marc,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; Am Sonntag, 3. April 2022, 13:13:24 CEST schrieb Marc Haber:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; [...]</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; &gt; If this should work, who needs to know about the bug?</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; I suggest upstream. They know much better which hardware configurations</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; should work and which ones cause trouble under which circumstances.</p>
<br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">There is a friendly and helpful irc channel on OTFC:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;"><a href="ircs://irc.oftc.net/#wayland">ircs://irc.oftc.net/#wayland</a></p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">(see also: <a href="https://wayland.freedesktop.org/">https://wayland.freedesktop.org/</a>)</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">They've helped me a lot for bug reporting in the past, and the bugs have been fixed since.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">(There is a &quot;whitequark&quot; log: <a href="https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/">https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/</a>)</p>
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></body>
</html>

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On Mon, Apr 04, 2022 at 04:20:38PM +0200, chris wrote:

On Sunday, 3 April 2022 17:59:44 CEST Patrick Franz wrote:

Hi Marc,

Am Sonntag, 3. April 2022, 13:13:24 CEST schrieb Marc Haber:
[...]

If this should work, who needs to know about the bug?

I suggest upstream. They know much better which hardware configurations should work and which ones cause trouble under which circumstances.

There is a friendly and helpful irc channel on OTFC: ircs://irc.oftc.net/#wayland[1]
(see also: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/[2])
They've helped me a lot for bug reporting in the past, and the bugs have been fixed since.
(There is a "whitequark" log: https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/[3])

Do they know their way aroud KDE Plasma? I suspect that most of my
issues are actually in KDE.

Greetings
Marc

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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On Monday, 4 April 2022 21:38:35 CEST Marc Haber wrote:

On Mon, Apr 04, 2022 at 04:20:38PM +0200, chris wrote:

https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/wayland/[3])

Do they know their way aroud KDE Plasma? I suspect that most of my
issues are actually in KDE.

No, they don't. I just gave the information in case the issue was related to your GPU, or something not kde specific.
My wayland session works very well, but I don't use a 2fa-usb-key, so I wouldn't know. As for `ssh-agent` I always start it from command line.

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