• debian image questions

    From Bill Miller@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 3 03:20:01 2023
    Is there a version of Debian that does not require 1990's technology?
    because i would really really want that Debian.I would download that
    in a second. However most of Debian still works off "image"? Still? Is
    there a new digital addition of Debian that I can download and install
    without using "image"? I am looking for Debian that I can download
    and then install and not need "image" like I am trying to use a live
    action telnet on another OS. Why do I need to use "image" and burn the
    software onto a CD? A round silver disc? I have heard of that, and see
    that technology on tv, but I have never actually had one in my life.
    Do computers even come with CD drives anymore? The other "image" is a
    USB driver. I had to google what that was and its Roku stick but
    empty, right and you store files on it? A friend told me USB drives
    was helpful back in the late 1990's because computers couldnt hold
    large games like we have now so people would put games on USB sticks
    and would plug them in. install the game and play? then when they
    wanted to play another game they would uninstall the game they was
    playing, insert the USB stick and install the different game and play
    it??? well computers are not like that now, you can put many large
    games on a computer, its 2023. But Debian can not brake the hump in
    todays times?? maybe i am missing something? why would i need to put
    it all in "image" on a USB drive like the old time days? I know there
    might be a reason, what am i missing?


    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?

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  • From Marc Haber@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Thu Aug 3 09:10:01 2023
    Hello Bill,

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings, which I
    don't quote for brevity.

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?

    Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system
    from "a digital cloud" would work?

    Best regards
    Marc Haber

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timo =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hling?=@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 3 14:50:01 2023
    * ghostbar <ghostbar@riseup.net> [2023-08-03 09:26]:
    If you want to run it like an application in your current operating
    system, you can use a virtual machine like VirtualBox[2].

    The Windows Subsystem for Linux can install Debian, too: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Microsoft/Windows/SubsystemForLinux


    Cheers
    Timo

    --
    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ╭────────────────────────────────────────────────────╮
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ │ Timo Röhling │
    ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ │ 9B03 EBB9 8300 DF97 C2B1 23BF CC8C 6BDD 1403 F4CA │
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ╰────────────────────────────────────────────────────╯

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  • From ghostbar@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Thu Aug 3 14:40:01 2023
    On 8/2/23 21:40, Bill Miller wrote:
    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?

    Hi Bill,

    This is a good question for debian-user@l.d.o instead of
    debian-project@, maybe that's a hint about why you can't find what
    you're looking for.

    You can install Debian in the cloud, of course. Actually, all cloud
    providers ship Debian. Is your cloud provider missing Debian?

    Or maybe you're mistaking an operating system for an application?

    Debian is not a game nor an app, is an operating system[1]. So you need
    either virtualized (most cloud-providers) or physical hardware to run
    any operating system.

    If you want to run it like an application in your current operating
    system, you can use a virtual machine like VirtualBox[2].

    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
    [2]: https://www.virtualbox.org/

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  • From Satvik Sinha@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Thu Aug 3 16:20:02 2023
    Hi Bill , the point your friend is trying to make is absolutely
    meaningless. There is no operating system in today's time which does not require it's installation image to be directly downloaded from cloud and
    then flashed onto usb drive for installation . If you are talking about Microsoft windows media creation tool which it uses for windows 10 and 11
    and can be used to upgrade windows 8.1 to higher version please note that
    If you are talking about winds reset option in windows 10 where microsoft
    give you option to reset your system using windows 10 image freshly
    downloaded from cloud . what basically that image does it download that iso filed in temporary location ,extracts it and then windows reset menu after downloading triggers it with relevant setting which you choose and that's
    how your windows 10 get reinstalled ,during reset some services of your
    windows go into shutdown mode in order to be replaced. USB media
    installation is not an old style, microsoft still recommends installing
    windows fresh via USB installation media. Games you are able to play on
    other systems, depending upon if they are portable and their files do not require verifying installation from the registry or need to have dependency installed in order to play. That's what your friend did not tell you when
    he was telling you about how games are plug and play.. Operating systems on
    the other end are wholly different thing, they are the base platform
    through which your hardware runs and the very fac that you are able to
    write this mail to here. It's not necessary to use CD for installing and operating system you can use rufus to create bootable image and that file
    when you trigger install via installation menu gets copied to your hard
    drive, so that it remains on your system throughout your journey.and you
    can boot it and use it daily for your work without loosing data or having
    to plug in your os over and over again in laptop port. USB are storage
    limited os files require direct communication with something called
    hardware in order to use your network adapter and all, portable games do
    not require direct hardware interaction. All they use is your something
    called operating system's libraries to run. SO i don't know wether your
    friend does not have adequate knowledge or he is trying to make fun of you
    in front of public but the question you asked baseless . Linux like debian
    give you more option to customise your os by allowing you to select
    packages you want to install , it downloads those packages from internet
    and installs it on your computer hard drive. If you are asking about
    installing debain from cloud here are 2 thing that can happen. 1st worst
    case scenerio is that your winows os files gets replaced if debians
    installs it files from cloud while your windows is running and your windows
    10 goes corrupt or become unstable and stiops working why? because The libraries which windows required for windows to run has been replaced or modified by linux install manager and is missing. boom , you just destroyed your own prefectly working installation of windows. 2nd scenrio is that you your are installing another os on top of your windows and all of a sudden
    that os loses communication to internet as that other os replaced it's
    network drivers while was also downloading os files also loses connection
    to internet , congratulations your both os are corrupt and not functional anymore and that is why we use USB installation media be it installing alongside or installing over other operating system

    Regards
    a windows 10 and Debain user

    On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 06:48, Bill Miller <bm8457475@gmail.com> wrote:

    Is there a version of Debian that does not require 1990's technology?
    because i would really really want that Debian.I would download that
    in a second. However most of Debian still works off "image"? Still? Is
    there a new digital addition of Debian that I can download and install without using "image"? I am looking for Debian that I can download
    and then install and not need "image" like I am trying to use a live
    action telnet on another OS. Why do I need to use "image" and burn the software onto a CD? A round silver disc? I have heard of that, and see
    that technology on tv, but I have never actually had one in my life.
    Do computers even come with CD drives anymore? The other "image" is a
    USB driver. I had to google what that was and its Roku stick but
    empty, right and you store files on it? A friend told me USB drives
    was helpful back in the late 1990's because computers couldnt hold
    large games like we have now so people would put games on USB sticks
    and would plug them in. install the game and play? then when they
    wanted to play another game they would uninstall the game they was
    playing, insert the USB stick and install the different game and play
    it??? well computers are not like that now, you can put many large
    games on a computer, its 2023. But Debian can not brake the hump in
    todays times?? maybe i am missing something? why would i need to put
    it all in "image" on a USB drive like the old time days? I know there
    might be a reason, what am i missing?


    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?



    <div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Bill , the point your friend is trying to make is absolutely meaningless. There is no operating system in today&#39;s time which does not require it&#39;s installation image to be directly downloaded from cloud and then flashed
    onto usb drive for installation . If you are talking about Microsoft windows media creation tool which it uses for windows 10 and 11 and can be used to upgrade windows 8.1 to higher version please note that If you are talking about winds reset option in
    windows 10 where microsoft give you option to reset your system using windows 10 image freshly downloaded from cloud . what basically that image does it download that iso filed in temporary location ,extracts it and then windows reset menu after
    downloading triggers it with relevant setting which you choose and that&#39;s how your windows 10 get reinstalled ,during reset some services of your windows go into shutdown mode in order to be replaced. USB media installation is not an old style,
    microsoft still recommends installing windows fresh via USB installation media. Games you are able to play on other systems, depending upon if they are portable and their files do not require verifying installation from the registry or need to have
    dependency installed in order to play.  That&#39;s what your friend did not tell you when he was telling you about how games are plug and play.. Operating systems on the other end are wholly different thing, they are the base platform through which your
    hardware runs and the very fac that you are able to write this mail to here. It&#39;s not necessary to use CD for installing and operating system you can use rufus to create bootable image and that file when you trigger install via installation menu gets
    copied to your hard drive, so that it remains on your system throughout your journey.and you can boot it and use it daily for your work without loosing data or having to plug in your os over and over again in laptop port. USB are storage limited os files
    require direct communication with something called hardware in order to use your network adapter and all, portable games do not require direct hardware interaction. All they use is your something called operating system&#39;s libraries to run. SO i don&#
    39;t know wether your friend does not have adequate knowledge or he is trying to make fun of you in front of public but the question you asked baseless . Linux like debian give you more option to customise your os  by allowing you to select packages you
    want to install , it downloads those packages from internet and installs it on your computer hard drive. If you are asking about installing debain from cloud here are 2 thing that can happen. 1st worst case scenerio is that your winows os files gets
    replaced if debians installs it files from cloud while your windows is running and your windows 10 goes corrupt or become unstable and stiops working why? because The libraries which windows required for windows to run has been replaced or modified by
    linux install manager and is missing. boom , you just destroyed your own prefectly working installation of windows. 2nd scenrio is that you your are installing another os on top of your windows and all of a sudden that os loses communication to internet
    as that other os replaced it&#39;s network drivers while was also downloading os files also loses connection to internet , congratulations your both os are corrupt and not functional anymore and that is why we use USB installation media be it installing
    alongside or installing over other operating system<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards <br></div><div>a windows 10 and Debain user<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 3 Aug 2023 at 06:48, Bill Miller &
    lt;<a href="mailto:bm8457475@gmail.com">bm8457475@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Is there a version of Debian that does not
    require 1990&#39;s technology?<br>
    because i would really really want that Debian.I would download that<br>
    in a second. However most of Debian still works off &quot;image&quot;? Still? Is<br>
    there a new digital addition of Debian that I can download and install<br> without using &quot;image&quot;? I am looking for Debian  that I can download<br>
    and then install and not need &quot;image&quot; like I am trying to use a live<br>
    action telnet on another OS. Why do I need to use &quot;image&quot; and burn the<br>
    software onto a CD? A round silver disc? I have heard of that, and see<br>
    that technology on tv, but I have never actually had one in my life.<br>
    Do computers even come with CD drives anymore? The other &quot;image&quot; is a<br>
    USB driver. I had to google what that was and its Roku stick but<br>
    empty, right and you store files on it? A friend told me USB drives<br>
    was helpful back in the late 1990&#39;s because computers couldnt hold<br> large games like we have now so people would put games on USB sticks<br>
    and would plug them in. install the game and play? then when they<br>
    wanted to play another game they would uninstall the game they was<br>
    playing, insert the USB stick and install the different game and play<br>
    it??? well computers are not like that now, you can put many large<br>
    games on a computer, its 2023. But Debian can not brake the hump in<br>
    todays times?? maybe i am missing something? why would i need to put<br>
    it all in &quot;image&quot; on a USB drive like the old time days? I know there<br>
    might be a reason, what am i missing?<br>


    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90&#39;s CDs and USB<br> drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i<br>
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?<br>

    </blockquote></div>

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  • From Bill Miller@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 6 16:10:01 2023
    Just like that;

    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go
    to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new OS. it warns
    me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS. It will then ask me
    for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes a box reading "wait"
    and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the device resets and comes back on and
    the new OS is on, up and, running. No downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I
    dont need to know anything about tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.


    On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> wrote:

    Hello Bill,

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings, which I
    don't quote for brevity.

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?

    Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system
    from "a digital cloud" would work?

    Best regards
    Marc Haber

    --

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421



    <div dir="ltr"><div>Just like that;</div><div><br></div>When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change
    my OS. It will then ask me for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes a box reading &quot;wait&quot; and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the device resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and, running. No downloading, no cd, no usb
    drive. I dont need to know anything about tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.<div class="gmail-yj6qo gmail-ajU" style="outline:none;padding:10px 0px;width:22px;margin:2px 0px 0px"><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><
    /div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber &lt;<a href="mailto:mh%2Bdebian-project@zugschlus.de">mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
    style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Bill,<br>

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings, which I<br> don&#39;t quote for brevity.<br>

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:<br>
    &gt; I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90&#39;s CDs and USB<br>
    &gt; drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i<br> &gt; dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?<br>

    Kindly educate us. What is the &quot;modern&quot; way to install an operating<br>
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium<br>
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?<br>

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system<br>
    from &quot;a digital cloud&quot; would work?<br>

    Best regards<br>
    Marc Haber<br>

    -- <br> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
    Marc Haber         | &quot;I don&#39;t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header<br>
    Leimen, Germany    |  lose things.&quot;    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402<br>
    Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421<br>

    </blockquote></div>

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  • From Marc Haber@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Sun Aug 6 16:50:02 2023
    On Sun, Aug 06, 2023 at 08:42:21AM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go
    to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new OS.

    Updating an installed OS with a new version of the same OS is something completely different from installing an entirely NEW OS on a system that
    has a different OS or none at all.

    Greetings
    Marc

    -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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  • From Pirate Praveen@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Sun Aug 6 17:30:01 2023
    On ഞാ, ഓഗ 6 2023 at 08:42:21 രാവിലെ -04:00:00
    -04:00:00, Bill Miller <bm8457475@gmail.com> wrote:
    Just like that;

    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything.
    I go to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new
    OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS. It
    will then ask me for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes
    a box reading "wait" and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the device
    resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and, running. No downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I dont need to know anything about
    tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.

    Many companies provide you Debian pre installed laptopns https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed just like how you buy a
    macbook from apple store, you can order one from them.

    In case of Windows and Mac, someone else installed it for you and there
    are people who will do that for you in case of Debian too.

    We provide an option to directly install Debian on Windows https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Loader

    You don't need any CD or USB drive for this option, you can download
    the exe file, run it directly in Windows.


    On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber
    <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de
    <mailto:mh%2Bdebian-project@zugschlus.de>> wrote:
    Hello Bill,

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings,
    which I
    don't quote for brevity.

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and
    USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital
    cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital
    software?

    Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system
    from "a digital cloud" would work?

    Best regards
    Marc Haber

    --

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
    im Header
    Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224
    1600402
    Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224
    1600421



    <div id="geary-body" dir="auto"><div><br></div></div><div id="geary-quote" dir="auto"><br>On ഞാ, ഓഗ 6 2023 at 08:42:21 രാവിലെ -04:00:00 -04:00:00, Bill Miller &lt;bm8457475@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"
    <div>Just like that;</div><div><br></div>When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a&nbsp;new&nbsp;OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS.
    It will then ask me for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes a box reading "wait" and in about 20 to 90&nbsp;minutes later the device resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and, running. No downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I dont&
    nbsp;need to know anything about tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.</div></blockquote><div><br></div>Many companies provide you Debian pre installed laptopns&nbsp;https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed just like how you buy
    a macbook from apple store, you can order one from them.<div><br></div><div>In case of Windows and Mac, someone else installed it for you and there are people who will do that for you in case of Debian too.</div><div><br></div><div>We provide an option
    to directly install Debian on Windows&nbsp;https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Loader</div><div><br></div><div>You don't need any CD or USB drive for this option, you can download the exe file, run it directly in Windows.<br><blockquote type="cite"><
    div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-yj6qo gmail-ajU" style="outline:none;padding:10px 0px;width:22px;margin:2px 0px 0px"><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 3,
    2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber &lt;<a href="mailto:mh%2Bdebian-project@zugschlus.de">mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:
    1ex">Hello Bill,<br>

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings, which I<br> don't quote for brevity.<br>

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:<br>
    &gt; I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and USB<br> &gt; drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital cloud? i<br> &gt; dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital software?<br>

    Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating<br>
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium<br>
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?<br>

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating system<br>
    from "a digital cloud" would work?<br>

    Best regards<br>
    Marc Haber<br>

    -- <br> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
    Marc Haber&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header<br>
    Leimen, Germany&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; lose things."&nbsp; &nbsp; Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402<br>
    Nordisch by Nature |&nbsp; How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421<br>

    </blockquote></div>
    </blockquote></div></div>

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  • From Nihat Kalfazade@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Sun Aug 6 17:50:01 2023
    Dear Bill,

    If this isn't trolling, you've actually got your answer hidden in your description.

    I go to update

    Installing a new OS is not updating the existing.

    Regards,

    Nihat.


    On Sun, 2023-08-06 at 08:42 -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    Just like that;

    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything.
    I go to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install
    a new OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my
    OS. It will then ask me for my password. Once i put in my password,
    up comes a box reading "wait" and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the
    device resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and,
    running. No downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I dont need to know
    anything about tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new
    OS.


    On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 11:35 PM Marc Haber
    <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> wrote:
    Hello Bill,

    thanks for your Interest in Debian and also for your ramblings,
    which I
    don't quote for brevity.

    On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:40:51PM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    I really want to try Debian but i dont live in the 90's CDs and
    USB
    drives times. why cant i just install Debian from a digital
    cloud? i
    dont understand why i need physical hardware to run digital
    software?

    Kindly educate us. What is the "modern" way to install an operating
    system on hardware if using an USB stick or some other boot medium
    is unwanted 1990ies technology?

    Please give detailed instructions how installing an operating
    system
    from "a digital cloud" would work?

    Best regards
    Marc Haber


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  • From tomas@tuxteam.de@21:1/5 to Bill Miller on Sun Aug 6 22:20:02 2023
    On Sun, Aug 06, 2023 at 08:42:21AM -0400, Bill Miller wrote:
    Just like that;

    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go
    to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS [...]

    Now try this: start with a computer with Windows on it. Go to update
    and try to install an Apple OS. Damn, didn't work, did it? I think
    you can't even achieve that with the help of an USB stick, because
    Apple forbids you to install their OS on hardware that isn't theirs.

    What you are describing works for Debian too: going from an already
    installed version of Debian to the next (we call those just "versions"
    of the OS, because our marketing department isn't as pretentious as
    Apple's). No CDROMs, USB sticks or other external storage media needed.
    Just "From The Internet" (TM).

    One very nice feature of Debian is that you usually get to keep your
    "stuff" after the OS upgrade: for me, it never got lost, and I've made
    quite a few of those. So I'll stick to Debian, thankyouverymuch, if
    Apple is going to wipe "my stuff" on every upgrade ;-P

    Making backups is still a good idea, though.

    Cheers
    --
    t

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  • From Gunnar Wolf@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 7 02:20:01 2023
    Bill Miller dijo [Sun, Aug 06, 2023 at 08:42:21AM -0400]:
    Just like that;

    When Apple makes a new OS or IOS I do not need to download anything. I go
    to update, it will ask me if i am sure i want to install a new OS. it warns me that all my stuff will be lost if i change my OS. It will then ask me
    for my password. Once i put in my password, up comes a box reading "wait"
    and in about 20 to 90 minutes later the device resets and comes back on and the new OS is on, up and, running. No downloading, no cd, no usb drive. I dont need to know anything about tech or computers to go from one old OS to another new OS.

    Besides what others have answered to your question, let me point something out here: I had a couple of Apple computers about 15 years ago. I remember that when
    we bought one of them, the system was installed, but we got a set of CDs with the update to the new version. It had just been released a week or so ago, and Apple was _so much better_ than Windows because the newer OS release was included for free!

    But yes, you had to manually start the install process. And I don't remember it, but as you say, it will probably wipe your data, or something might not work
    afterwards.

    Debian basically *invented* the worryless, over-the-network updates. My current desktop computer was originally installed in 2005, when I started working at my university. I have upgraded the OS since then. I have even moved the data from one computer to the next. Debian achieves what MacOS and Windows (and many Linux
    are incapable of dreaming: We can ask the system to update itself _and keep working_. We don't have to worry. It basically just works™.

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  • From Paul Wise@21:1/5 to Marc Haber on Mon Aug 7 06:00:01 2023
    On Thu, 2023-08-03 at 08:41 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    What is the "modern" way to install an operating system on hardware

    There are some potentially more modern future options:

    Plug in the device to a USB port, visit the installer web page, click
    the button to install the OS, done. This can be done using WebUSB:

    https://grapheneos.org/install/web

    Go to the app store of your existing OS, select the Debian app, run it
    to try Debian out, click the option to reboot into it natively, choose
    to boot into the existing app or via a new disk partition. This can be
    done using preinstalled images, VMs and modifying UEFI settings to
    offer Debian at boot time, using an image on an existing partition,
    or by copying that image to a partition.

    Both of these have a better user experience than having to find
    external temporary storage for the installer, when there is
    already existing internal storage that could be used for this.

    --
    bye,
    pabs

    https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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