• Re: Fwd: Are users of Debian software members of the Debian community?

    From Wouter Verhelst@21:1/5 to Chuck Zmudzinski on Fri Sep 16 12:10:01 2022
    On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 09:51:03PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    On 9/15/22 8:33 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
    Or maybe the problem is that you want to be able to tell people what to
    do, but you don't want to have to pay them? If so, uh, good luck with that!


    I am sorry you misunderstand me. Please stop putting words in
    my mouth. Let me speak for myself. I don't need you to tell me
    what I think about Debian. I know what I think about Debian.
    You obviously do not.

    Russ does have point though in that if you don't like something in
    Debian, there are really only two things you can do to fix that
    situation for yourself:

    - Get involved as a contributor, and help out fixing the problems that
    exist
    - Stop using Debian, and use something else.

    All these are valid approaches.

    You don't have to be involved as a contributor in Debian; nobody forces
    you to. If you don't want to do that, however, then you won't be
    involved in decision making either; that's just a fact, and one that
    will not change (well, it might change if we ever bring it to a vote,
    but if you want to bring that to a vote you have to get voting rights
    and that means you have to contribute in some way first).

    You don't have to use Debian; nobody forces you to. If there are things
    in Debian which you dislike, but there is another distribution that has
    ideas and values that align better with how you think things should be
    done, then that's great, and you should move to that distribution! It
    will make both you and us happier, I'm sure.

    Nobody is saying that the situation as it currently exists is perfect.
    Debian is definitely flawed, and it probably always will be. You can
    help us work on that *if* you're willing to help with the work that is
    required to improve matters, but again, nobody forces you to do so if
    you don't want to do that (or don't have either the skills to do so or
    the money to pay someone with the skills to do them at your request).

    If you don't want to work on improving things, and you don't want to
    move to another distribution, then there is really one other final
    action you can take:

    - Accept the fact that Debian is not perfect, and live with it.

    --
    w@uter.{be,co.za}
    wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

    I will have a Tin-Actinium-Potassium mixture, thanks.

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  • From Andrey Rahmatullin@21:1/5 to Chuck Zmudzinski on Fri Sep 16 15:50:01 2022
    On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 08:56:12AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    Russ does have point though in that if you don't like something in
    Debian, there are really only two things you can do to fix that
    situation for yourself:

    - Get involved as a contributor, and help out fixing the problems that
    exist
    - Stop using Debian, and use something else.

    Are those the only two possible ways to respond to the current
    situation at Debian?
    As quoted above, those are he only two possible ways to *fix* the current situation.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Steffen Moeller@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 16 21:10:01 2022
    Am 16.09.2022 um 15:36 schrieb Andrey Rahmatullin:
    On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 08:56:12AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    Russ does have point though in that if you don't like something in
    Debian, there are really only two things you can do to fix that
    situation for yourself:

    - Get involved as a contributor, and help out fixing the problems that
    exist
    - Stop using Debian, and use something else.
    Are those the only two possible ways to respond to the current
    situation at Debian?
    As quoted above, those are he only two possible ways to *fix* the current situation.

    https://www.debian.org/partners/ comes to mind. These are organisations
    that somehow help Debian to become a better place and that can be
    somewhat directed (typically with money) to solve problems or to change something. At least that is how I read it.

    Best,
    Steffen

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  • From Paul Wise@21:1/5 to Steffen Moeller on Sat Sep 17 05:50:02 2022
    On Fri, 2022-09-16 at 20:58 +0200, Steffen Moeller wrote:

    Am 16.09.2022 um 15:36 schrieb Andrey Rahmatullin:
    On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 08:56:12AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
    Russ does have point though in that if you don't like something in Debian, there are really only two things you can do to fix that situation for yourself:

    - Get involved as a contributor, and help out fixing the problems that    exist
    - Stop using Debian, and use something else.
    Are those the only two possible ways to respond to the current
    situation at Debian?
    As quoted above, those are he only two possible ways to *fix* the current situation.

    https://www.debian.org/partners/ comes to mind. These are organisations
    that somehow help Debian to become a better place and that can be
    somewhat directed (typically with money) to solve problems or to change something. At least that is how I read it.

    Debian Partners typically provide resources to Debian rather than
    working on Debian, although there are some development partners, but
    they are usually directed by their own priorities rather than money.

    The list of Debian consultants is what you should peruse if you want to
    pay someone to work on Debian. For situations where you want to an
    employer instead of consulting relationship, there is debian-jobs.

    https://www.debian.org/consultants/
    https://lists.debian.org/debian-jobs/

    The FOSSjobs folks have a list of other FOSS job aggregator sites too.

    https://github.com/fossjobs/fossjobs/wiki/resources#job-aggregators

    --
    bye,
    pabs

    https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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