Hi everyone interested in shipping Debian for kids,

First of all, many thanks to Stefan, for your effort in bringing
Debian-jr back to life!

I've managed to build and test the live image following instructions on
the salsa repo. Yay, bravo, it worked!!!

Now, maybe Stefan would benefit of some help for this beautiful project
to be released for real?

I'm interested in joining the effort, and maybe there are other people following from a distance that would also be willing to test and give
some feedback.

By the way, is the live image available anywhere for download? If we
provide the .iso file, it will make the whole process more accessible
for people that have some time to test it and contribute their ideas.

Happy hacking,

Tassia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 11/03/2024 02:40:41 AM, Tassia Camoes Araujo wrote:

Hi everyone interested in shipping Debian for kids,

First of all, many thanks to Stefan, for your effort in bringing
Debian-jr back to life!

Thanks to my kids - they are the reason to get motivated to work
on it :)

I've managed to build and test the live image following instructions on
the salsa repo. Yay, bravo, it worked!!!

\o/ perfekt. Currently, there are two different "projects" to
build a Debian Junior Live image.

I started with a small project using live-build. This project
will be marked as deprecated soon. https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system

The "new / real" way to build a Debian Live Image is different.

I have created a new package called junior-desktop which is part
of Debian Junior's Pure Blend. This package is the "Debian Junior
Desktop".
https://packages.debian.org/trixie/junior-desktop

This package has been included into the live-tasks package. Which
is used to Build Debian's live images: https://packages.debian.org/trixie/live-task-debian-junior

This is one important thing for me: Debian Junior is and will be
Debian. Everything should be included into a Debian Packages and
shall follow Debian's processes.

Now, maybe Stefan would benefit of some help for this beautiful project
to be released for real?

I'm interested in joining the effort, and maybe there are other people following from a distance that would also be willing to test and give
some feedback.

Welcome on board!

By the way, is the live image available anywhere for download?

Not yet, I hope soon.

If we provide the .iso file, it will make the whole process
more accessible for people that have some time to test it and
contribute their ideas.

I agree. Few weeks back, I asked to get Debian Junior into
Debian's live image build. Roland helped to get the build done
and I was able to build and test the image.

Now, it would be nice to get Debian Junior into the weekly build.
See mails ;-)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2024/11/msg00002.html

I think this will be a very important milestone for the project,
because it will get more visibility.

When the weekly build is done, I think I need to work on Debian
Junior specific configuration files. Starting with configuration
for IceWM, Debian Junior's Window Manager.

Happy hacking,

Tassia.

--
Stefan
Instant Messaging via XMPP
OpenPGP: 65F91599B305749D03DD 88A4CBD1B596579B7FFF
Diese E-Mail wurde von einem Debian GNU/Linux System gesendet

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi!

On 2024-11-03 14:16, Stefan Kropp wrote:

\o/ perfekt. Currently, there are two different "projects" to
build a Debian Junior Live image.

Thanks for the explanation.

I started with a small project using live-build. This project
will be marked as deprecated soon. https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system

That is what I tried first, as I didn't know it was deprecated. If any
feedback is still useful for that one, it would be good to have a system
in English by default ;-)

The "new / real" way to build a Debian Live Image is different.

I have created a new package called junior-desktop which is part
of Debian Junior's Pure Blend. This package is the "Debian Junior
Desktop".
https://packages.debian.org/trixie/junior-desktop

I've installed this package on a clean trixie environment. But the
experience was not the same, as I ended up with a "full-featured" IceWM
menu, not the targeted environment I got with the live image. I guess it
is still a work-in-progress and the customization done for the live
image cannot be directly used in this new method?

I have limited understanding of how things work under the hoods... sorry
if question is too naif.

This package has been included into the live-tasks package. Which
is used to Build Debian's live images: https://packages.debian.org/trixie/live-task-debian-junior

This is one important thing for me: Debian Junior is and will be
Debian. Everything should be included into a Debian Packages and
shall follow Debian's processes.

That's great!

Welcome on board!

Thank you!

By the way, is the live image available anywhere for download?

Not yet, I hope soon.

Well, maybe for now we could simply put the .iso file in one of the
Debian machines for download and add the link to the wiki?

I agree. Few weeks back, I asked to get Debian Junior into
Debian's live image build. Roland helped to get the build done
and I was able to build and test the image.

Now, it would be nice to get Debian Junior into the weekly build.
See mails ;-)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2024/11/msg00002.html

I think this will be a very important milestone for the project,
because it will get more visibility.

For sure it will! That's all great news!

When the weekly build is done, I think I need to work on Debian
Junior specific configuration files. Starting with configuration
for IceWM, Debian Junior's Window Manager.

Would you be open to brainstorm ideas for the environment configuration?

I feel there will be so many decisions to be made, and the more we
involve the community in this process, the better.

How about setting up a jitsi call in a few weeks and get participants to
test an image beforehand and come with feedback?

Cheers,

Tassia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

On 2024-11-05 15:59, Stefan Kropp wrote:

In the "deprecated" way of building the image all the magic
happens there:

https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system/-/blob/master/config/includes.chroot_after_packages/home/user/.bash_login?ref_type=heads
https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system/-/tree/master/config/includes.chroot_after_packages/usr/share/debian-junior?ref_type=heads

Thanks for those pointers! Even if this method is now considered
deprecated, I'll do some local customization on the live image for fun
and learning purposes.

Well, maybe for now we could simply put the .iso file in one of the
Debian machines for download and add the link to the wiki?

Let's wait until Monday. Steve did a small change,
There is also an issue with some firmware, AFAIK: https://salsa.debian.org/images-team/live-setup/-/commit/c11e91b

I hope we will have an image next Monday.

Sure. If things are being cooked now, I think we can wait ;-)

Sure. On the following picture you can see an idea about colored
bullets. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DebianJr-Live-CD-001.png
I think it's nice to group the applications by colors, maybe for
different ages.

Maybe we can open a new mail-thread for this discussions and but
the ideas on the wiki page.

Let's do it then!

How about setting up a jitsi call in a few weeks and get participants to
test an image beforehand and come with feedback?

Calls are always little bit difficult for me. Let' see, maybe we
can try. Anyway, in general, I prefer E-Mail, because everybody
can follow the communication. Later, summarize all important
information on the wiki page.

I agree calls are not the easier to organize and make happen. I think my proposal came from a place of over excitement. And then, I was the
perfect example of not being able to follow-up due to real-life coming
in the way.

All this to say that I'm perfectly fine with the mailing list + wiki
proposed method ;-)

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr

I tied.to put some notes / status on https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr/ProjectStagePlan
When the Image Build has been done, I will update the wiki page.

Thanks for all that planning and documentation, it really helps the
onboarding of new contributors!

Cheers,
Tassia

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 11/05/2024 03:34:25 AM, Tassia Camoes Araujo wrote:

On 2024-11-03 14:16, Stefan Kropp wrote:

\o/ perfekt. Currently, there are two different "projects" to
build a Debian Junior Live image.

Thanks for the explanation.

I started with a small project using live-build. This project
will be marked as deprecated soon. https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system

That is what I tried first, as I didn't know it was deprecated. If any feedback is still useful for that one, it would be good to have a system
in English by default ;-)

Ah, I see. Maybe it's German :-D https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system/-/blob/master/auto/config?ref_type=heads#L15

The "new / real" way to build a Debian Live Image is different.

I have created a new package called junior-desktop which is part
of Debian Junior's Pure Blend. This package is the "Debian Junior
Desktop".
https://packages.debian.org/trixie/junior-desktop

I've installed this package on a clean trixie environment. But the
experience was not the same, as I ended up with a "full-featured" IceWM
menu, not the targeted environment I got with the live image. I guess it
is still a work-in-progress and the customization done for the live
image cannot be directly used in this new method?

In the "deprecated" way of building the image all the magic
happens there:

https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system/-/blob/master/config/includes.chroot_after_packages/home/user/.bash_login?ref_type=heads
https://salsa.debian.org/debian-jr-team/debian-junior-live-system/-/tree/master/config/includes.chroot_after_packages/usr/share/debian-junior?ref_type=heads

This is still missing in the "new" build. I was thinking about a
junior-config and maybe a junior-tweak package. Maybe we can
build something, which can be used by other blend projects as
well.

Debian Blends supports some kind of user roles https://blends.debian.org/blends/ch06.html#userroles
I don't know much about it.

Yes, it's something on our ToDo-List.

I have limited understanding of how things work under the hoods... sorry
if question is too naif.

Same here. I think we will find out how things are working. ;-)

This package has been included into the live-tasks package. Which
is used to Build Debian's live images: https://packages.debian.org/trixie/live-task-debian-junior

This is one important thing for me: Debian Junior is and will be
Debian. Everything should be included into a Debian Packages and
shall follow Debian's processes.

That's great!

Welcome on board!

Thank you!

By the way, is the live image available anywhere for download?

Not yet, I hope soon.

Well, maybe for now we could simply put the .iso file in one of the
Debian machines for download and add the link to the wiki?

Let's wait until Monday. Steve did a small change,
There is also an issue with some firmware, AFAIK: https://salsa.debian.org/images-team/live-setup/-/commit/c11e91b

I hope we will have an image next Monday.

I agree. Few weeks back, I asked to get Debian Junior into
Debian's live image build. Roland helped to get the build done
and I was able to build and test the image.

Now, it would be nice to get Debian Junior into the weekly build.
See mails ;-)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-cd/2024/11/msg00002.html

I think this will be a very important milestone for the project,
because it will get more visibility.

For sure it will! That's all great news!

When the weekly build is done, I think I need to work on Debian
Junior specific configuration files. Starting with configuration
for IceWM, Debian Junior's Window Manager.

Would you be open to brainstorm ideas for the environment configuration?

Sure. On the following picture you can see an idea about colored
bullets. https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DebianJr-Live-CD-001.png
I think it's nice to group the applications by colors, maybe for
different ages.

Maybe we can open a new mail-thread for this discussions and but
the ideas on the wiki page.

I feel there will be so many decisions to be made, and the more we
involve the community in this process, the better.

How about setting up a jitsi call in a few weeks and get participants to
test an image beforehand and come with feedback?

Calls are always little bit difficult for me. Let' see, maybe we
can try. Anyway, in general, I prefer E-Mail, because everybody
can follow the communication. Later, summarize all important
information on the wiki page.

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr

I tied.to put some notes / status on https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr/ProjectStagePlan
When the Image Build has been done, I will update the wiki page.

Cheers,

Tassia.

--
Stefan
https://wiki.debian.org/StefanKropp
Instant Messaging via XMPP
OpenPGP: 65F91599B305749D03DD 88A4CBD1B596579B7FFF
Diese E-Mail wurde von einem Debian GNU/Linux System gesendet

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I'm interested in joining the effort, and maybe there are other people following from a distance that would also be willing to test and give
some feedback.

I've been following the revived project for a while now, and have been excited to see the progress!

The timing isn't quite right for me (and my family) to jump in and contribute much right now, but I just wanted to say that I really do appreciate the updates and calls for feedback. I'm probably not alone in watching, and waiting for a time when I can
contribute more

- Justin


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Saturday, November 2nd, 2024 at 19:40, Tassia Camoes Araujo <tassia@riseup.net> wrote:

Hi everyone interested in shipping Debian for kids,

First of all, many thanks to Stefan, for your effort in bringing
Debian-jr back to life!

I've managed to build and test the live image following instructions on
the salsa repo. Yay, bravo, it worked!!!

Now, maybe Stefan would benefit of some help for this beautiful project
to be released for real?

I'm interested in joining the effort, and maybe there are other people following from a distance that would also be willing to test and give
some feedback.

By the way, is the live image available anywhere for download? If we
provide the .iso file, it will make the whole process more accessible
for people that have some time to test it and contribute their ideas.

Happy hacking,

Tassia.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)