1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. LINUX.DEBIAN.BUGS.RC

  • Bug#1109167: Can the community team remove packages or kick me out for

    From Roberto =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=2E_S=E1nch@21:1/5 to Antoine Le Gonidec on Thu Jul 17 01:40:01 2025
    On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 11:35:55PM +0200, Antoine Le Gonidec wrote:
    Le Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 07:42:06PM +0200, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
    I did that by removing tens of sexist, homophobic and racist jokes
    that were not in the offensive section, and had been there at least
    since 2004.

    Does that mean that sexist, homophobic and/or racist jokes that were in
    the -off packages did not get removed? Only the ones in the regular
    packages?

    If it is the case, the removal requests get my full support. Sexism,
    racism and such are not, never were, and can not be funny. Not even in a package explicitly labelled as such.

    I have no problem with offensive humour, but oppressive "jokes" are
    something else that should not be tolerated in the *universal* operating system. (making fun of cis-het white males can be offensive, and it’s
    OK, while making fun of people already suffering from discrimination is oppressive, and that’s not OK)

    If on the other hand I misunderstood and what you’re trying to preserve
    is non-oppressive offensive jokes, then I have no strong opinion on the matter.

    I don't know how the history of where you are from, but in my country,
    there was a time when the prevailing view was something along lines of
    "all men are created equal, but some are more equal than others", which resulted in *exactly* this same kind of thinking specifically
    normalizing the mistreatment of certain groups of people.

    I have a very hard time understanding how in two adjacent paragraphs you
    can say both "Sexism, racism and such are not, never were, and can not
    be funny." and also "making fun of cis-het white males can be offensive,
    and it’s OK." You sound like a hypocrite.

    So, are sexism, racism and such *never* OK, or are they only OK when
    they're directed at whatever group or groups you happen to think it is acceptable to oppress? Society has been there before (some group decides
    that another group should be oppressed, marginalized, exploited,
    eradicated, or whatever) and the results were not good. It doesn't make
    sense for you to claim a commitment to non-oppression and then make
    allowance for it at the same time.

    I ask because it sounds like you are speaking out of both sides of your
    mouth, saying that jokes of such a nature must be deplored but then also
    that their use against some groups is acceptable.

    Am I, as a member of a marginalized group, not permitted to make jokes
    about my own group? If that's the case, no thanks, I don't need someone
    telling me that I can't make fun of myself or of others in my group.

    Regards,

    -Roberto

    --
    Roberto C. Sánchez

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Antoine Le Gonidec@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 14:20:02 2025
    Le Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 07:30:46PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez a écrit :
    I have a very hard time understanding how in two adjacent paragraphs you
    can say both "Sexism, racism and such are not, never were, and can not
    be funny." and also "making fun of cis-het white males can be offensive,
    and it’s OK." You sound like a hypocrite.

    So, are sexism, racism and such *never* OK, or are they only OK when
    they're directed at whatever group or groups you happen to think it is acceptable to oppress? Society has been there before (some group decides
    that another group should be oppressed, marginalized, exploited,
    eradicated, or whatever) and the results were not good. It doesn't make
    sense for you to claim a commitment to non-oppression and then make
    allowance for it at the same time.

    I get where the confusion is coming from. I am indeed saying that
    sexism, racism, etc. are never OK. But that jokes targeted at the
    dominant group are not racism or sexism.

    There is no such thing, in our current society, as anti-white racism or anti-male sexism. Because these -ism are about enforcing an oppression,
    and there is, by definition, no oppression happening against the
    dominant group.

    I know it can be a bit hard to grasp that these systems are not
    symmetric, and that a same thing can be OK or not OK depending on
    whether the dominant group or an oppressed group is targeted. Still, one
    is reinforcing an existing systemic oppression, while the other is not.

    Does that make it clearer where I am standing on this topic?

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iHUEABYKAB0WIQSUsdxM90hewW6X7Jhja3j5HOuA2AUCaHjGRAAKCRBja3j5HOuA 2NNfAP4835iSLdAgGdRwaPVRRVQD+yKu5L0KtLmvVOjp2V2eOAD9EcFKYVgUzgCN BLu+9s6B+duijt9zl9nhwWoB5fzISQM=
    =J/F1
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Salvo Tomaselli@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 17 14:40:01 2025
    Sure, make a pull request to remove them.

    But should stuff like this be blanket removed?

    - Come fa sesso un esperto di UNIX?
    - Unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ;
    more ; yes ; umount ; sleep .
    -- Dr. Zap

    The real work is stuff like this:

    https://codeberg.org/fortunes-it/fortunes-it/commit/397b02fce49c18b6811a2e7bc7fe962d034726e5

    getting rid of stuff from actual fascists that have inspired modern
    day fascists to beat up journalists and gay people, that is not even
    in the offensive section. That's in my opinion much more relevant than
    what's in the offensive section.

    But all I see is people mobbing me and 0 people helping.

    Best.


    Il giorno gio 17 lug 2025 alle ore 14:14 NoisyCoil
    <noisycoil@disroot.org> ha scritto:

    Salvo,

    With the hope of being able to give you a hand as I'd really like to
    keep both the italian and the sicilian *offensive* fortunes package in Debian, I went peeking at the package and, unless I'm completely missing something, the second offensive italian fortune says that women's "no"s should be interpreted as "yes", while the third one explicitly calls for violence on women [1]. Like, it literally says women should be beaten on
    a regular basis. I'm afraid I can't help you here, sorry.

    Best.


    [1] https://sources.debian.org/src/fortunes-it/2.16-1/testi/italia-o/



    --
    Salvo Tomaselli

    I difensori della morale tradizionale sono raramente persone di cuore. Si è tentati di pensare che essi si servano della morale come di legittimo sfogo
    al loro desiderio di fare del male agli altri.
    -- Bertrand Russell, Perché non sono cristiano. 1957


    https://ltworf.codeberg.page/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)