XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

Hi BW,

1.
you filed this report against a non-existent package, so probably you don't get a big audience, because of this.

2.
What you describe (installing packages inside the installer, but by hand, so bypassing the installer) is not the usual way, so one may consider this being
a corner case.


So long
Holger



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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

Hi,

Am 6. April 2025 23:58:41 MESZ schrieb Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>:

[Private reply, but feel free to quote it publicly]

Hi Holger,

On 06/04/2025 at 00:20, Holger Wansing wrote:

On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 18:09:13 +0200 BW <m40636067@gmail.com> wrote:

This is the year 2025 and I can promise you that 99% of all installations >>> are NOT performed from a CD/DVD media, but from USB flash/network or
whatever, but NOT an optical media.

But still you have designed the installation for CD-ROM?

If I "burn" the installation-iso to a USB flash media and do an
installation I will not able to do an "apt update" or install any packages, >>> because CD-ROM is set to be main repository.
I have to modify "/etc/apt/sources.list" to get a working system.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible to do an installation the we did it >>> in 1990, but please design the system to how 99% of all people actually
install Debian today.

What you describe (installing packages inside the installer, but by hand, so >> bypassing the installer)

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the submitter complains because when you install from a DVD or larger installation image on a USB flash drive, d-i (apt-setup) leaves the "cdrom:" entry in /etc/apt/sources.list enabled and in first position,

and as a result, after the installation apt will wait for a non-existent CD-ROM when requested to install packages which are present in the installation image.


Ah, I missunderstood that, it's not about installing additional packages within the installer, but in the installed system.
Now reading it again, it's indeed clear, but ... hmm, don't know, what drove me wrong.
Thanks for correcting me.


So, it's another report of "please disable the sources.list entries from installation media, when installation is finished".


But there's no difference, if the CD/DVD image is on optical media or on USB... It does not get any updates in any case.



Holger



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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

On 07/04/2025 at 17:32, Holger Wansing wrote:

So, it's another report of "please disable the sources.list entries from installation media, when installation is finished".

Sort of. I think there was some discussion about this topic in the past.

But there's no difference, if the CD/DVD image is on optical media or on USB...

By default an optical disc is mounted on /media/cdrom and makes apt
happy, whereas a USB flash drive is usually mounted elsewhere.

It does not get any updates in any case.

IIRC, the issue is not when doing updates but when installing packages
which are present in the original installation image and apt insists on
using the installation media instead of the network repositories.

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

Hi,

Am 7. April 2025 20:23:09 MESZ schrieb Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>:

On 07/04/2025 at 17:32, Holger Wansing wrote:

So, it's another report of "please disable the sources.list entries from installation media, when installation is finished".

Sort of. I think there was some discussion about this topic in the past.

But there's no difference, if the CD/DVD image is on optical media or on USB...

By default an optical disc is mounted on /media/cdrom and makes apt happy, whereas a USB flash drive is usually mounted elsewhere.

It does not get any updates in any case.

IIRC, the issue is not when doing updates but when installing packages which are present in the original installation image and apt insists on using the installation media instead of the network repositories.

We should not make a difference here: on the long term you will need sources.list entries, that work for the whole archive.
Still rely on an installation image as only source will not work for the long future.
You will for sure end up with the situation, where a package you need is not on the CD/DVD image, and then you have to switch to a debian online mirror anyway.

Am I right with this, or do I miss something?


Holger


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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

Hey guys,

On Mon, Apr 07, 2025 at 11:04:49PM +0200, Holger Wansing wrote:

Am 7. April 2025 20:23:09 MESZ schrieb Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>:

On 07/04/2025 at 17:32, Holger Wansing wrote:

So, it's another report of "please disable the sources.list entries from installation media, when installation is finished".

Sort of. I think there was some discussion about this topic in the past.

But there's no difference, if the CD/DVD image is on optical media or on USB...

By default an optical disc is mounted on /media/cdrom and makes apt happy, whereas a USB flash drive is usually mounted elsewhere.

It does not get any updates in any case.

IIRC, the issue is not when doing updates but when installing packages which are present in the original installation image and apt insists on using the installation media instead of the network repositories.

We should not make a difference here: on the long term you will need sources.list entries, that work for the whole archive.
Still rely on an installation image as only source will not work for the long future.
You will for sure end up with the situation, where a package you need is not on the CD/DVD image, and then you have to switch to a debian online mirror anyway.

Am I right with this, or do I miss something?

The reasoning for the current setup has been:

* if you're installing from single CD / small image, then it's not
useful after installation, so don't keep the sources.list entry

* if you're using a larger image (DVD/BD) etc. that might be part of
a full set, keep the sources.list entry/entries - they include a
fuller set of packages, maybe complete if you have the full set

There is not a single good answer here. :-/

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

On 07/04/2025 at 23:04, Holger Wansing wrote:

Am 7. April 2025 20:23:09 MESZ schrieb Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org>:

Still rely on an installation image as only source will not work for the long future.
You will for sure end up with the situation, where a package you need is not on the CD/DVD image, and then you have to switch to a debian online mirror anyway.

Am I right with this, or do I miss something?

It sounds like you are missing BW's point. Package update is not
affected. Let me try to detail a bit more.

After installing Debian from a DVD installation image and a network
mirror, /etc/apt/sources.lists looks like this:
----
deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 12.10.0 "Bookworm" - Official amd64 DVD with firmware 20250315-10:09] bookworm contrib main non-free-firmware

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free-firmware
----

With this configuration, if the candidate version of a package is
present in the installation media, then apt requires to fetch it from an optical drive. If the original installation DVD is inserted, then apt successfully fetches the package from it. Otherwise apt endlessly asks
for the DVD:
----
Media change: please insert the disc labeled
'Debian GNU/Linux 12.10.0 "Bookworm" - Official amd64 DVD with
firmware 20250315-10:09'
in the drive '/media/cdrom/' and press [Enter]
----

The user must comment out the "cdrom" entry in /etc/apt/sources.list to
prevent apt from asking to insert the DVD.

Some suggestions to avoid this:
- disable all "cdrom" sources at the end of the installation, not only incomplete ones (netinst, live...)
- disable "cdrom" sources if the installation device is not an optical
disc (USB flash drive, loop-mounted ISO file...)
- prompt the user whether to keep or disable "cdrom" sources
- put "cdrom" sources after network sources in /etc/apt/sources.list

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

Control: tags -1 patch

On 08/04/2025 at 08:37, BW wrote:

Let's say we have 1000 random Debian users performing a new server installation.

Why only server and not also workstation or laptop ?

999 of these will not use optical media (CD-ROM/DVD) and will have a broken package-configuration (out-of-the-box) and will need to take special steps
to get it working (modifying the sources file).

Only those using "big" images (DVD, BD, 16G) will experience what you
describe. Those who using "small" images (netinst, netboot, live), and I
assume that most do nowadays, will get a working out-of-the-box apt
sources configuration.

But as a user I agree that the installer should disable sources.list
entries which will not work without further configuration. This includes
cdrom entries generated from media other than a real optical disc
because currently APT cannot use them.

Please design Debian to target the vast majority, by fare, of
installations scenarios by NOT putting CD-ROM as the 1st priority package source in the sources.

I am not convinced this is be the best course of action. IMO cdrom
sources are useful after installation only when no network mirror can be
used or network is slow or expensive, not as a fallback for network
failures. I would rather have the installer automatically disable them
if they would not work in the installed system, and ask the user otherwise.

In order to move forward I prepared a patch implementing the following
logic:

if installation media is not a real CD/DVD/BD
automatically disable cdrom entries
else if sources.list has network entries
if installation media is netinst, live or single desktop
automatically disable cdrom entries
else
ask user whether to disable cdrom entries

<https://salsa.debian.org/pham/apt-setup/-/tree/pham/disable_cdrom>

Comments welcome. If it receives positive feedback I will open a MR.

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XPost: linux.debian.maint.boot

On 13/04/2025 à 18:33, Pascal Hambourg wrote:

In order to move forward I prepared a patch implementing the following
logic:

if installation media is not a real CD/DVD/BD
    automatically disable cdrom entries
else if sources.list has network entries
    if installation media is netinst, live or single desktop
        automatically disable cdrom entries
    else
        ask user whether to disable cdrom entries

I opened a merge request without the "ask user whether to disable cdrom entries" part and associated debconf template: <https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/apt-setup/-/merge_requests/20>

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