• Re: Bits from the DPL

    From Jonathan Carter@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 20 09:40:01 2022
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  • From Samuel Thibault@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 3 09:50:02 2025
    c.buhtz@posteo.jp, le mar. 03 juin 2025 07:19:33 +0000, a ecrit:
    And by the way: "AI" is a marketing and sci-fi term.

    AI is also a very well-established scientific term that does encompass
    LLMs.

    Samuel

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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Tue Jun 3 10:20:01 2025
    On Tue, Jun 03, 2025 at 07:19:33AM +0000, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as >journalists for example I have to ask.

    Why don't you let those journalists ask these themselves?

    Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:
    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    You are on debian-devel@. You also claim since at least 2021 that you plan
    to maintain packages in Debian. Do you really not know what is DFSG or are
    you asking this just for those "folsk not involved with Debian"?


    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Timo =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hling?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 3 11:40:01 2025
    * c.buhtz@posteo.jp <c.buhtz@posteo.jp> [2025-06-03 07:19]:
    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.
    I would assume that people who are interested in the DPL bits also know
    how the Internet works, what hyperlinks are, and that they might find
    helpful introductory information if they follow the "Home" link.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    --
    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ╭────────────────────────────────────────────────────╮
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ │ Timo Röhling │
    ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ │ 9B03 EBB9 8300 DF97 C2B1 23BF CC8C 6BDD 1403 F4CA │
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ╰────────────────────────────────────────────────────╯

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  • From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 3 14:54:19 2025
    To: c.buhtz@posteo.jp

    On Tuesday, June 3, 2025 12:19:33 AM Mountain Standard Time c.buhtz@posteo.jp
    wrote:
    Hello,

    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as journalists for example I have to ask.

    Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:
    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    It is the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

    https://wiki.debian.org/DebianFreeSoftwareGuidelines

    SPI Report

    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.

    It is Software in the Public Interest.

    https://www.debian.org/donations

    --
    Soren Stoutner
    soren@debian.org
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  • From Richard Lewis@21:1/5 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Thu Jun 5 21:40:01 2025
    c.buhtz@posteo.jp writes:

    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as journalists for example I have to ask.

    thanks for trying to help, but the email you replied was aimed at an
    audience that understands terms like DFSG and SPI. If you want to
    critique documents, there are many on the debian website that are aimed
    at the public and would benefit from this kind of review


    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    SPI Report

    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.

    (i dont think this is a fair criticisum - while the page does not define
    "SPI report", but it defines SPI in the first para)

    And by the way: "AI" is a marketing and sci-fi term.

    (nor this, especially for a general audience)

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  • From jathan@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 10 06:30:01 2025
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  • From c.buhtz@posteo.jp@1:229/2 to All on Tue Jun 3 09:40:01 2025
    XPost: linux.debian.announce.devel

    Hello,

    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as journalists for example I have to ask.

    Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:
    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    SPI Report

    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.

    And by the way: "AI" is a marketing and sci-fi term. It is a thing that
    does not exist. Experts, like Debian people are, shouldn't IMHO not take
    over marketing terms but use correct technical terms; e.g. large
    language models (LLM). "AI" does wake expectations at users.

    Regards,
    Christian

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  • From Leandro Cunha@1:229/2 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Tue Jun 3 15:10:01 2025
    From: leandrocunha016@gmail.com

    On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 4:36 AM <c.buhtz@posteo.jp> wrote:

    Hello,

    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as journalists for example I have to ask.

    Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:
    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    SPI Report

    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.

    And by the way: "AI" is a marketing and sci-fi term. It is a thing that
    does not exist. Experts, like Debian people are, shouldn't IMHO not take
    over marketing terms but use correct technical terms; e.g. large
    language models (LLM). "AI" does wake expectations at users.

    Regards,
    Christian


    These are questions answered on the official Debian website and in
    detail. I recommend that you read it and no one will answer these
    questions on debian-devel.
    And another detail, don't send anything to the debian-devel-announce list.

    --
    Cheers,
    Leandro Cunha

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  • From Leandro Cunha@1:229/2 to All on Tue Jun 10 06:40:01 2025
    From: leandrocunha016@gmail.com

    Em ter., 10 de jun. de 2025, 01:25, jathan <jathan@debian.org> escreveu:

    On 03/06/2025 01:19, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    Hello,

    for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as journalists for example I have to ask.

    Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:
    Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

    What is "DFSG"?

    SPI Report

    What is "SPI"?
    Even the linked page on spi-inc.org does not explain what it is.

    And by the way: "AI" is a marketing and sci-fi term. It is a thing that does not exist. Experts, like Debian people are, shouldn't IMHO not take over marketing terms but use correct technical terms; e.g. large
    language models (LLM). "AI" does wake expectations at users.

    Regards,
    Christian

    Hello Christian,

    DFSG refers to Debian Free Software Guidelines: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianFreeSoftwareGuidelines

    And SPI refers to Software in the Public Interest:
    https://www.spi-inc.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_in_the_Public_Interest


    This has already been explained to them a few times, thank you on his
    behalf and he has also been advised not to send it to the devel-announce
    the https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce.

    <div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Em ter., 10 de jun. de 2025, 01:25, jathan &lt;<a href="mailto:jathan@debian.org">jathan@debian.org</a>&gt; escreveu:</div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="
    margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 03/06/2025 01:19, <a href="mailto:c.buhtz@posteo.jp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">c.buhtz@posteo.jp</a> wrote:<br>
    &gt; Hello,<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; for the folsk not involved with Debian GNU/Linux but monitoring it as <br> &gt; journalists for example I have to ask.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Am 02.06.2025 17:30 schrieb Andreas Tille:<br>
    &gt;&gt; Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; What is &quot;DFSG&quot;?<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt;&gt; SPI Report<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; What is &quot;SPI&quot;?<br>
    &gt; Even the linked page on <a href="http://spi-inc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">spi-inc.org</a> does not explain what it is.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; And by the way: &quot;AI&quot; is a marketing and sci-fi term. It is a thing that <br>
    &gt; does not exist. Experts, like Debian people are, shouldn&#39;t IMHO not take <br>
    &gt; over marketing terms but use correct technical terms; e.g. large <br>
    &gt; language models (LLM). &quot;AI&quot; does wake expectations at users.<br> &gt; <br>
    &gt; Regards,<br>
    &gt; Christian<br>
    &gt; <br>
    Hello Christian,<br>

    DFSG refers to Debian Free Software Guidelines:<br>
    <a href="https://wiki.debian.org/DebianFreeSoftwareGuidelines" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/DebianFreeSoftwareGuidelines</a><br>

    And SPI refers to Software in the Public Interest:<br>
    <a href="https://www.spi-inc.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.spi-inc.org/</a><br>
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_in_the_Public_Interest" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_in_the_Public_Interest</a><br></blockquote></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This has
    already been explained to them a few times, thank you on his behalf and he has also been advised not to send it to the devel-announce the <a href="https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce">https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce</a>.</div></


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  • From Antoine Le Gonidec@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 4 19:50:01 2025
    I have wanted to contribute but have held off because there seem to be some nasty prima donnas waiting to pounce on newbies for making mistakes.

    I’ve been a Debian Maintainer for a bit more than one year, and am on my way to
    become a Debian Developer. So I guess that counts as being relatively new, while still having had some time to get in touch with many people.

    I have yet to meet with any of these "prima donnas" you are writing about. My experience with mentors has been overwhelmingly positive (I would not have candidated to become a Debian Developer otherwise).

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  • From Al Rice@1:229/2 to Antoine Le Gonidec on Fri Jul 4 20:20:01 2025
    From: alan.f.rice@gmail.com

    I appreciate your input. Perhaps I have spoken out of turn.

    On Fri, 2025-07-04 at 19:42 +0200, Antoine Le Gonidec wrote:
    I have wanted to contribute but have held off because there seem to
    be some
    nasty prima donnas waiting to pounce on newbies for making
    mistakes.

    I’ve been a Debian Maintainer for a bit more than one year, and am on
    my way to
    become a Debian Developer. So I guess that counts as being relatively
    new,
    while still having had some time to get in touch with many people.

    I have yet to meet with any of these "prima donnas" you are writing
    about. My
    experience with mentors has been overwhelmingly positive (I would not
    have
    candidated to become a Debian Developer otherwise).

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  • From Antoine Le Gonidec@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 5 02:10:01 2025
    Le Fri, Jul 04, 2025 at 11:13:38AM -0700, Al Rice a écrit :
    I appreciate your input. Perhaps I have spoken out of turn.

    I can’t promise everyone in Debian is as nice as they could be, but from
    my experience the grumpiest Debian Developers tend not to interact with newcomers.

    People on the mentors mailing list and IRC channel are those who
    actually want to help new people becoming better contributors, so you
    can expect to interact with the most helpful members of the project in
    these places.

    Debian Teams are good places for a first contact too, since you already
    share a common interest with everyone in there. I can’t speak for all
    teams, obviously, but at least the Games Team is very welcoming. It’s my interactions with them that gave me the motivation to get more formally involved with Debian as a whole.

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