Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Prez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
edward@4angle.com wrote:
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org >>
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Prez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
Do you have a real use for this package? There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
lightly...
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:54:52 +0100, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
wrote:
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
edward@4angle.com wrote:
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Prez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
Do you have a real use for this package?
There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
lightly...
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
More sensible than not filing it?No ; I have to admit a large percentage of the new packages I upload
get their ITP minutes before the package is ready.
Basically: I wait for the bug number before pushing to salsa & NEW.
It's been a while since I've packaged something entirely new, but this
is also how I have approached it. Especially during periods when it
might take months to make it through NEW, waiting an additional week or
two for discussion around an ITP (especially when the vast majority of
ITPs actually never elecit any sort of response from anyone), seems
rather pointless.
Filing the ITP then immediately uploading seems really sensible,
Hi,
Le jeudi 14 juillet 2022 14:16 +0200, Marc Haber a crit:
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:54:52 +0100, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
No ; I have to admit a large percentage of the new packages I upload
get their ITP minutes before the package is ready.
Basically: I wait for the bug number before pushing to salsa & NEW.
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:54:52 +0100, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
wrote:
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
Is there any point in an ITP if you are already ready to upload theAnd I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 08:45:24AM -0400, Roberto C. Snchez wrote:
Filing the ITP then immediately uploading seems really sensible,More sensible than not filing it?
This defeats both purposes of an ITP: getting it discussed and working as
a mutex for people who are thinking about packaging the same software. Are there other purposes?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 05:48:56PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 08:45:24AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
Filing the ITP then immediately uploading seems really sensible,More sensible than not filing it?
This defeats both purposes of an ITP: getting it discussed and working as
a mutex for people who are thinking about packaging the same software. Are there other purposes?
Filing the ITP and then uploading immediately seems like it still fully allows for both things you describe.
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:14:43AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
edward@4angle.com wrote:
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Pérez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
Do you have a real use for this package?
Why in the world is that even a relevant question? There are plenty of packages in the archive which are useful to essentially nobody apart
from the maintainer and there are even packages which are maintained
without being useful to the maintainer at all (but rather useful to
others).
There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
lightly...
"There are a *lot* of issues in this area" seems rather nebulous. In
which area? Given the fact that we have clear and rather unambiguous guidelines for what constitutes software which is appropriate for
inclusion in the archive, and given that on its face this software does
not seem to be in conflict with any of those guidelines, what then is
the problem? BTW, I'm not interested in any sort of "well I don't like
..." or "such and such could offend so and so ..." sort of arguments.
IMHO there are 2 points to an ITP:
* to save effort in case two people might be working on the same
package
* to invite discussion on debian-devel / elsewhere
If people post an ITP and upload iummediately, then I don't think that
helps on either count.
If the only reason for the ITP is to make lintian quiet then I think
that's a total waste of time - it's following a guideline blindly
without understanding the reason for it.
How do others feel?
Quoting Steve McIntyre (2022-07-14 13:54:52)
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
I did that quite a few times in the past as well. Is there a rule of how long I
have to wait with my upload to NEW after filing the ITP?
Hi,
Le jeudi 14 juillet 2022 14:16 +0200, Marc Haber a crit:
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:54:52 +0100, Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> wrote:
And I see you uploaded ~immediately - why even bother with an ITP?
Is it proper procedure to upload without an ITP?
No ; I have to admit a large percentage of the new packages I upload
get their ITP minutes before the package is ready.
Basically: I wait for the bug number before pushing to salsa & NEW.
IMHO there are 2 points to an ITP:
* to save effort in case two people might be working on the same
package
* to invite discussion on debian-devel / elsewhere
If people post an ITP and upload iummediately, then I don't think that
helps on either count.
If the only reason for the ITP is to make lintian quiet then I think
that's a total waste of time - it's following a guideline blindly
without understanding the reason for it.
I've been writing some code to work out the gender balance of speakers
at a conference. It parses the pentabarf XML of the schedule and feeds
the speaker names to this module.
Here's the results for Debconf 22.
72 speakers
male 48 66.7%
unknown 16 22.2%
female 4 5.6%
mostly_male 2 2.8%
andy 1 1.4%
mostly_female 1 1.4%
(Also, due to the limitations and history of naming conventions, the
software is inherently trying to map into a gender binary, which if one is attempting to capture self-identification is likely to be unhelpful for
many populations, such as ones with lots of people under 30, due to not having a way to represent nonbinary people.)
IMHO there are 2 points to an ITP:
* to save effort in case two people might be working on the same
package
* to invite discussion on debian-devel / elsewhere
If people post an ITP and upload iummediately, then I don't think that
helps on either count.
* Package name : gender-guesser
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world. That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values.
Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has
non-harmful uses.
Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com> writes:
I've been writing some code to work out the gender balance of speakers
at a conference. It parses the pentabarf XML of the schedule and feeds
the speaker names to this module.
Here's the results for Debconf 22.
72 speakers
male 48 66.7%
unknown 16 22.2%
female 4 5.6%
mostly_male 2 2.8%
andy 1 1.4%
mostly_female 1 1.4%
I fear this may be an example of statistics that look meaningful but
probably aren't because the error bar is much higher than the typical consumer of the statistic intuitively thinks it is. Although maybe that's not a worry in this case since the program itself says that it totally
failed to make a guess about a quarter of the time.
I don't really have any objections to the package being in the archive;
this is certainly something that a lot of people seem to want to do and
thus seem to find some utility in doing. But unless one has a
higher-quality source of data than just names (preferred pronouns, direct self-identification, etc.)
On 2022-07-14 17:14, Russ Allbery wrote:
(Also, due to the limitations and history of naming conventions, the
software is inherently trying to map into a gender binary, which if one
is attempting to capture self-identification is likely to be unhelpful
for many populations, such as ones with lots of people under 30, due to
not having a way to represent nonbinary people.)
This one does not. It maps a first name to male, female, androgynous,
mostly make, mostly female, or unknown.
If the only reason for the ITP is to make lintian quiet then I think
that's a total waste of time - it's following a guideline blindly
without understanding the reason for it.
How do others feel?
...
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world.
That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values.
...
Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has
non-harmful uses.
...
Thank you,
Jeremy Bicha
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 04:05:35PM +0200, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
...
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world.
Our Diversity Statement says that Debian "welcomes and encourages participation by everyone".
People who express how they identify themselves by having a swastika
tattoo on their forehead also face a lot of discrimination, harrassment
and bullying around the world. Our Diversity Statement makes it clear
that we are welcoming and encouraging their participation and are not ourselves discriminating against them.
That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values.
...
Our Diversity Statement says that we "welcome contributions from
everyone as long as they interact constructively with our community".
Debian does not have core values regarding how people are treated
outside Debian.
Debian is not a project that fights for trans people or fights for denazification or fights for whatever other non-technical topics
individual contributors might consider worth fighting for elsewhere.
Diversity means that in any kinds of conflicts people on all sides
are encouraged to contribute to Debian as long as they interact constructively with our community.
Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has non-harmful uses.
...
The exact opposite of diversity is to call everything one dislikes or disagrees with "harassment" or *phobic.
Thank you,
Jeremy Bicha
cu
Adrian
Debconf is on in Kosovo right now. If I had to work out Albanian
gender mappings from names, I'd have no clue.
femaleprint(d.get_gender(u"Vjosa"))
Then S. Indian - Malayalam character sets?? and names from a number of
Indian languages then Israel and Hebrew/Arabic
Taiwan had Chinese character sets and names
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 2:41 PM Roberto C. Snchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:14:43AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
edward@4angle.com wrote:
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Prez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
Do you have a real use for this package?
Why in the world is that even a relevant question? There are plenty of packages in the archive which are useful to essentially nobody apart
from the maintainer and there are even packages which are maintained without being useful to the maintainer at all (but rather useful to others).
There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk lightly...
"There are a *lot* of issues in this area" seems rather nebulous. In
which area? Given the fact that we have clear and rather unambiguous guidelines for what constitutes software which is appropriate for
inclusion in the archive, and given that on its face this software does
not seem to be in conflict with any of those guidelines, what then is
the problem? BTW, I'm not interested in any sort of "well I don't like ..." or "such and such could offend so and so ..." sort of arguments.
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world. That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values. Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has
non-harmful uses. We don't have to distribute *everything* ourselves.
Are you actually somehow claiming that Debian's core values include
bad treatment of Jews and those other groups? Seriously, WTF?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 04:05:35PM +0200, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
* Package name : gender-guesser
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and
non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world. That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values.
Unless they're Jewish, believe that a woman should be allowed to abort a
Down syndrome fetus, believe that there's more than just a name to the >gender, or have a kind of transsexualism that matches their life's >experiences and is detectable by brain imaging but the loud group says >doesn't exist.
The inconsistency here is astounding.
If you're asking about DebConf 22, we have that information:[...]
I guess we should expose this in our conference statistics. We care
about it.
IMHO there are 2 points to an ITP:
* to save effort in case two people might be working on the same
package
* to invite discussion on debian-devel / elsewhere
If people post an ITP and upload iummediately, then I don't think that
helps on either count.
How do others feel?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 04:05:35PM +0200, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
...
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and
non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world.
Our Diversity Statement says that Debian "welcomes and encourages >participation by everyone".
People who express how they identify themselves by having a swastika
tattoo on their forehead also face a lot of discrimination, harrassment
and bullying around the world. Our Diversity Statement makes it clear
that we are welcoming and encouraging their participation and are not >ourselves discriminating against them.
but why? how is gender relevant for participating in DebConf as
a whole? (i can see how it could be relevant for some events, but
not for the whole conference.)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:14:43AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Do you have a real use for this package?
Why in the world is that even a relevant question? There are plenty of >packages in the archive which are useful to essentially nobody apart
from the maintainer and there are even packages which are maintained
without being useful to the maintainer at all (but rather useful to
others).
There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
lightly...
"There are a *lot* of issues in this area" seems rather nebulous. In
which area? Given the fact that we have clear and rather unambiguous >guidelines for what constitutes software which is appropriate for
inclusion in the archive, and given that on its face this software does
not seem to be in conflict with any of those guidelines, what then is
the problem?
BTW, I'm not interested in any sort of "well I don't like ..." or
"such and such could offend so and so ..." sort of arguments.
* Jeremy Bicha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> [220714 10:06]:
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 2:41 PM Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 11:14:43AM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
edward@4angle.com wrote:
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Edward Betts <edward@4angle.com>
X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-python@lists.debian.org
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Pérez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Oh, not *another* package that tries to guess things from names.
Do you have a real use for this package?
Why in the world is that even a relevant question? There are plenty of
packages in the archive which are useful to essentially nobody apart
from the maintainer and there are even packages which are maintained
without being useful to the maintainer at all (but rather useful to
others).
There are a *lot* of issues
in this area, and mis-gendering people is not something to risk
lightly...
"There are a *lot* of issues in this area" seems rather nebulous. In
which area? Given the fact that we have clear and rather unambiguous
guidelines for what constitutes software which is appropriate for
inclusion in the archive, and given that on its face this software does
not seem to be in conflict with any of those guidelines, what then is
the problem? BTW, I'm not interested in any sort of "well I don't like
..." or "such and such could offend so and so ..." sort of arguments.
Debian has a Diversity Statement [1] which says that Debian welcomes
people regardless of how they identify themselves. Trans people and
non-binary people face a lot of discrimination, harrassment and
bullying around the world. That bad treatment of these people is
against Debian's core values. Therefore, the Debian Project wouldn't
want to distribute software that appears to facilitate that kind of
harassment, regardless of the software license it is released under.
We might not want to distribute such software even if it also has
non-harmful uses. We don't have to distribute *everything* ourselves.
People within the Debian community have a right to expect that others in
the community will not bully, harass, or denigrate them. They do _not_
have any right to expect that others will not offend them by discussing
or making contributions that espouse values that are different and incompatible with their own. Such an expectation assumes that one set
of values is correct and the other is wrong. In order for such an expectation to be met, only one of the two sets of values could exist
within Debian.
Saying that gender-guesser should not be packaged within Debian (using
the excuse given early in this thread) is excluding a contribution based
on the values to which that package adheres and possibly the contributor
and the users who would like to use it. This is contrary to being
inclusive.
Being offended by someone else's civil expression of their values
(including the packaging of a particular piece of software) is not the
same as being bullied or denigrated. Please stop trying to use the
excuse "it might offend someone" to block participation or inclusion of software. Instead, be inclusive and acknowledge that others' values may
be different from and incompatible with yours, and accept that Debian is
a collection of software from diverse sources and some of it may not
adhere to your values.
This is the difference between true inclusiveness and the false
"political correctness" that seems to be permeating our society today.
When we can all say, "I disagree with your values, but I accept you as a Debian contributor," then we will be truly inclusive.
...Marvin
I think it's our business, as a community, and as conference organisers,
to try to increase the diversity at our events. To me, that means
increasing speaker diversity, primarily. Attendee diversity won't change unless the speaker diversity changes.
On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 07:05:09PM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
...
Debian is not a project that fights for trans people or fights for denazification or fights for whatever other non-technical topics
individual contributors might consider worth fighting for elsewhere.
It does fight for under-represented / disadvantaged groups within Debian in a Debian context.
...
The exact opposite of diversity is to call everything one dislikes or disagrees with "harassment" or *phobic.
I wonder how it would be if you wanted to use a similar script to test familiarity with English in our developers / a test for neurodiversity
and high functioning autism / a test for colour vision or dexterity to
single out anybody who's visually impaired or blind or a guess for
background religion/beliefs/no belief - I don't think any of these (hypothetical, straw man) scripts would be useful or constructive or contribute well to our Debian community.
...
...
Andy Cater
What tools did you use to generate this data?
The irony is that your "fight" requires exactly the tools you want to condemn, and data Debian should better not collect at all.
Le samedi, 16 juillet 2022, 19.36:17 h CEST Adrian Bunk a crit :
What tools did you use to generate this data?
The irony is that your "fight" requires exactly the tools you want to condemn, and data Debian should better not collect at all.
It does not. The whole argument is "gender-guessing if prone to errors, if you
want to know what gender a person identify themselves, ask them".
Consider -
Debconf is on in Kosovo right now. If I had to work out Albanian
gender mappings from names, I'd have no clue.
Then S. Indian - Malayalam character sets?? and names from a number of
Indian languages then Israel and Hebrew/Arabic
Taiwan had Chinese character sets and names
No need to go that far.
Andrea in Germany is traditionally a woman’s name, Andrea in Italy is a masculine name. How can we tell if a certain specific Andrea is named according to the German (Czech, Slovak etc) tradition (and hence likely a woman) or the Italian (and hence probably a man)? There’s no way to generally tell this based on the name alone.
Take Misha/Miša/Миша or Petya/Peťa/Петя. In Russian tradition, these are
very likely masculine names, from Mikhail and Petr.
And we haven’t yet touched the topic of people who were given non-traditional names.
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 01:48:17PM +0200, Andrej Shadura wrote:
Take Misha/Miša/Миша or Petya/Peťa/Петя. In Russian tradition, these are
very likely masculine names, from Mikhail and Petr.
If only this piece of software had a distinction between "almost always male", "leaning male", "neutral", "leaning female", "almost always
female"... Oh wait, it does!
Precisely for the reason you mention.
And we haven’t yet touched the topic of people who were given non-traditional names.
In which case it says "unknown".
On Tue, 19 Jul 2022, at 16:57, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 01:48:17PM +0200, Andrej Shadura wrote:
Take Misha/Miša/Миша or Petya/Peťa/Петя. In Russian tradition, these are
very likely masculine names, from Mikhail and Petr.
If only this piece of software had a distinction between "almost always male", "leaning male", "neutral", "leaning female", "almost always female"... Oh wait, it does!
Precisely for the reason you mention.
No, it does not and cannot, since some names are almost always male in one culture but almost always female in another one.
In other words, if you don't pick a culture, the _global_ dataset (ie, the default one) must not assume either. It takes a lot of work to prepare
such a database, that's why this package is good to have.
* Package name : gender-guesser
Version : 0.4.0
Upstream Author : Israel Saeta Pérez <israel@lead-ratings.com>
* URL : https://github.com/lead-ratings/gender-guesser
* License : GPL-3 & GFDL-1.2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Guess the gender from first name
Hi,where you wouldn’t be easily able to tell.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2022, at 16:57, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 01:48:17PM +0200, Andrej Shadura wrote:
Take Misha/Miša/Миша or Petya/Peťa/Петя. In Russian tradition, these are
very likely masculine names, from Mikhail and Petr.
If only this piece of software had a distinction between "almost always male", "leaning male", "neutral", "leaning female", "almost always female"... Oh wait, it does!
Precisely for the reason you mention.
No, it does not and cannot, since some names are almost always male in one culture but almost always female in another one.
And we haven’t yet touched the topic of people who were given non-traditional names.
In which case it says "unknown".
No, it cannot know about cases when a person is given a name traditionally given to another gender in another culture. Pretty common in the US, for example. Sure, there probably aren’t many cases of women named Michael, but there are many other names
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:English_unisex_given_names
femaleimport gender_guesser.detector as gender
d = gender.Detector()
print(d.get_gender(u"Andrea"))
maleprint(d.get_gender(u"Misha"))
andyprint(d.get_gender(u"Miša"))
unknownprint(d.get_gender(u"Миша"))
maleprint(d.get_gender(u"Petya"))
unknownprint(d.get_gender(u"Peťa"))
unknownprint(d.get_gender(u"Петя"))
maleprint(d.get_gender(u"Andrea", "italy"))
andyprint(d.get_gender(u"Misha", "slovakia"))
andyprint(d.get_gender(u"Petya", "slovakia"))
In other words, if you don't pick a culture, the _global_ dataset (ie, the default one) must not assume either. It takes a lot of work to prepare such a database, that's why this package is good to have.
What exactly is it supposed to be good for?
From what I can tell, at best it produces harmless nonsense, and at
worst it will cause people to be misidentified in ways that will vary
between mildly humourous to significantly hurtful.
Andrey> More sensible than not filing it? This defeats both"Andrey" == Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> writes:
Andrey> More sensible than not filing it? This defeats both"Andrey" == Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> writes:
Andrey> purposes of an ITP: getting it discussed and working as a
Andrey> mutex for people who are thinking about packaging the same
Andrey> software. Are there other purposes?
Yes, it's one of the ways people learn about software that is being
packaged and they might like to become involved in.
I find reading ITPs
1) increases my interest in Debian because I see cool stuff people are
doing
2) Is one of the ways I learn about software I might find useful
3) Potentially could point me in the direction of software to contribute
to.
All those are valuable to me even when an ITP is filed immediately
before uploading.
I agree that we could find other ways of getting that information to
people who are interested.
But today, in my work flow, ITPs are useful to me as an ITP consumer
even if immediately before upload.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 164:04:38 |
| Calls: | 10,385 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 14,057 |
| Messages: | 6,416,517 |