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  • Populating non-free firmware?

    From Jonathan Carter@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 24 10:50:01 2022
    Hi Debianites

    Earlier this year, we had a [vote] where we concluded that we'd include non-free firmware in the upcoming Debian 12 release. Steve posted a
    summary of [next steps] to this list, but it seems like we have some
    steps missing.

    The non-free-firmware [component] has been created, but so far it only
    contains the rasbpi-firmware package.

    I recall seeing various discussions about /what/ should be included in non-free-firmware (packages that install files under /lib/firmware seems
    like a reasonable approach), but it's unclear how that's going to happen.

    Will the archive team be moving those over? Is it up to firmware
    packagers to re-upload it to the correct component?

    As far as I recall, there was also some discussion between archive
    admins on whether non-free-firmware should contain copies of packages,
    or whether the packages should be moved (along with migration concerns
    for the latter).

    Since we're so close to freeze, and since there are lots of bits that
    will be depending on this if we are to implement this for Debian 12, can
    we have some basic plan and communication put together for this so that everyone knows what to expect?

    Thanks to everyone involved in this and putting in the work to make it
    happen!

    -Jonathan

    [vote] https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003

    [next steps] https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20221002142736.GA1700088@tack.einval.com

    [component] http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/non-free-firmware/

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  • From M. Zhou@21:1/5 to Jonathan Carter on Sat Dec 24 18:20:01 2022
    On Sat, 2022-12-24 at 11:44 +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:

    The non-free-firmware [component] has been created, but so far it
    only
    contains the rasbpi-firmware package.

    Please ensure to include the packages for wifi cards, especially
    the iwlwifi since I don't use desktop pc.

    One of the most painful ways to install Debian is to realize that
    iwlwifi is missing during the netinstall process, while RJ45 cable
    is not available. As a result, one may download the package using
    cellphone and find a way to transmit that file to the laptop.
    If it's iphone then game is sadly over.

    In the past, such frustration had once irritated one of the new
    users to whom I have recommended Debian. The user's anger has
    finally converted into personal/emotional attacks, blaming
    me as a Debian developer being incompetent to make the wifi
    card working. As a result, I as a Debian developer, would never
    recommend Debian to any new user, nor discussing linux with
    any new user since then.

    iwlwifi is the very only reason that forced me to never use the
    the default iso again.

    That said, my word only counts as a vote for the wifi card packages.
    Just wanted to mention that iwlwifi may hurt people.

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  • From Timothy M Butterworth@21:1/5 to lumin@debian.org on Sat Dec 24 21:30:01 2022
    On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:15 PM M. Zhou <lumin@debian.org> wrote:

    On Sat, 2022-12-24 at 11:44 +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:

    The non-free-firmware [component] has been created, but so far it
    only
    contains the rasbpi-firmware package.

    Please ensure to include the packages for wifi cards, especially
    the iwlwifi since I don't use desktop pc.

    One of the most painful ways to install Debian is to realize that
    iwlwifi is missing during the netinstall process, while RJ45 cable
    is not available. As a result, one may download the package using
    cellphone and find a way to transmit that file to the laptop.
    If it's iphone then game is sadly over.

    In the past, such frustration had once irritated one of the new
    users to whom I have recommended Debian. The user's anger has
    finally converted into personal/emotional attacks, blaming
    me as a Debian developer being incompetent to make the wifi
    card working. As a result, I as a Debian developer, would never
    recommend Debian to any new user, nor discussing linux with
    any new user since then.

    iwlwifi is the very only reason that forced me to never use the
    the default iso again.

    That said, my word only counts as a vote for the wifi card packages.
    Just wanted to mention that iwlwifi may hurt people.

    I agree WiFi is needed. I have Realtek and it needs non-free firmware. I
    also need the binary blobs for AMD Radeon. I use the non-free installer. If
    not all firmware is going to be included in the installer will there still
    be a non-free installer image?



    --
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    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

    <div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:15 PM M. Zhou &lt;<a href="mailto:lumin@debian.org">lumin@debian.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
    style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sat, 2022-12-24 at 11:44 +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; The non-free-firmware [component] has been created, but so far it<br>
    &gt; only <br>
    &gt; contains the rasbpi-firmware package.<br>

    Please ensure to include the packages for wifi cards, especially<br>
    the iwlwifi since I don&#39;t use desktop pc.<br>

    One of the most painful ways to install Debian is to realize that<br>
    iwlwifi is missing during the netinstall process, while RJ45 cable<br>
    is not available. As a result,
  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to Timothy M Butterworth on Sun Dec 25 00:40:01 2022
    On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 03:22:17PM -0500, Timothy M Butterworth wrote:
    On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:15 PM M. Zhou <lumin@debian.org> wrote:

    On Sat, 2022-12-24 at 11:44 +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:

    The non-free-firmware [component] has been created, but so far it
    only
    contains the rasbpi-firmware package.

    Please ensure to include the packages for wifi cards, especially
    the iwlwifi since I don't use desktop pc.


    I don't think there's any dispute here: we'll put in all of the non-free firmware that's needed that's actually firmware.

    The problem is a logistics one: the archives need to be split up, there
    needs to be a transition plan, maybe the easiest way is to do NMU uploads

    As I read the DPL's message it's a "Hey, we need to do this now and time
    is running short, let's agree how to do it and actually do it" rather
    than not including one driver and not another.

    All best, as ever,

    Andy Cater

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  • From Philipp Kern@21:1/5 to Andrew M.A. Cater on Sun Dec 25 10:20:01 2022
    On 25.12.22 00:31, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
    The problem is a logistics one: the archives need to be split up, there
    needs to be a transition plan, maybe the easiest way is to do NMU uploads

    This is what (archive) overrides were invented for. However with the
    split maybe it'd be good for dak to temporarily export that component
    into both its own and non-free proper. That'd decouple the migration on
    the user side.

    Kind regards
    Philipp Kern

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  • From Bastian Blank@21:1/5 to Jonathan Carter on Sun Dec 25 12:50:01 2022
    XPost: linux.debian.kernel

    On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 11:44:49AM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
    Will the archive team be moving those over? Is it up to firmware packagers
    to re-upload it to the correct component?

    AFAIK this requires a re-upload. However, does the installer properly
    include it yet? I need to check that.

    I can handle the main firmware packages maintained by the kernel team.

    Bastian

    --
    Captain's Log, star date 21:34.5...

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  • From Jonathan Carter@21:1/5 to Bastian Blank on Sun Dec 25 19:30:01 2022
    Hi Bastian

    On 2022/12/25 13:32, Bastian Blank wrote:
    AFAIK this requires a re-upload. However, does the installer properly include it yet? I need to check that.

    I can handle the main firmware packages maintained by the kernel team.

    Great! That covers a large percentage of them (and even most of the
    important ones).

    So if we're going with maintainers-are-going-to-do-the-uploads, then
    taking a cursory glance at what's left that seems important is:

    - firmware-sof-signed (maintainer: Mark Pearson)
    - intel-microcode (maintainer: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh)
    - amd64-microcode (maintainer: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh)

    -Jonathan

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  • From Henrique de Moraes Holschuh@21:1/5 to Jonathan Carter on Sat Dec 31 22:50:01 2022
    On Sun, Dec 25, 2022, at 15:21, Jonathan Carter wrote:
    So if we're going with maintainers-are-going-to-do-the-uploads, then
    taking a cursory glance at what's left that seems important is:

    - firmware-sof-signed (maintainer: Mark Pearson)
    - intel-microcode (maintainer: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh)
    - amd64-microcode (maintainer: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh)

    Please email me directly when it is time to do such upload changing the archive section.

    I assume we (maintainers) don't need to do the usual dance of opening a bug to change the Dak override file for the package section ? There is no point to any uploads before that file is updated AFAIK.

    --
    Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>

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