• Re: It makes no sense to link vmlinuz and initramfs to the root directo

    From Geert Stappers@21:1/5 to kindusmith on Tue Nov 12 07:30:01 2024
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 02:14:34PM +0800, kindusmith wrote:
    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory as programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this for compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains the kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense to link vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is to remove them from the root directory.

    Chesters fence

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  • From =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B8rn_Mork?=@21:1/5 to Geert Stappers on Tue Nov 12 08:10:01 2024
    Geert Stappers <stappers@stappers.nl> writes:

    Chesters fence

    Chesterton's?


    Bjørn

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  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 12 10:10:01 2024
    Am Dienstag, 12. November 2024, 07:14:34 CET schrieb kindusmith:
    In very early linux, as far as I remember in SuSE-Linux, the kernel was installed in a small partition /boot (about 3 or 4 sizes of the kernel) and a link ponting to the kernel on the root-partitiion (the one, mounted to "/")

    This got some advantages. If you have a very big root poartition and the
    kernel was installed there, then it was possible, the system could not boot, because the kernel was not found. The reason for this was, the BIOS could not handle the size of this big partition.

    To fix this and get not in trouble, the idea was to make a small partition which got the kernel and can be booted, then after the kernel has started,
    BIOS is no more used, because the kernel is handling the paretitiions. Andthe kernel can handle very, very big partitions.

    The sesond advantage of putting the kernel so, is , you can mount the kernel partition read-only, so it can not be harmed by any malware.

    For the uprading procedure it is possible (with a little script), to make this partition writable, and automatically read-only after upgrade is done.
    (If someone is interested in this, I will paste the script here, these are
    only 4 lines).

    I might remember, the seperated /boot partition was also default in RedHat, Mandriva and SLAX, but I am not quite sure. It is now a long time ago!

    However, maybe a link is alo no more needed, even with a seperated /boot partition.

    Best

    Hans


    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory as programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this for compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is
    stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains the kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense to link vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is to remove
    them from the root directory.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to Hans on Tue Nov 12 10:40:01 2024
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 09:35:08AM +0100, Hans wrote:
    Am Dienstag, 12. November 2024, 07:14:34 CET schrieb kindusmith:
    In very early linux, as far as I remember in SuSE-Linux, the kernel was installed in a small partition /boot (about 3 or 4 sizes of the kernel) and a
    link ponting to the kernel on the root-partitiion (the one, mounted to "/")

    This got some advantages. If you have a very big root poartition and the kernel was installed there, then it was possible, the system could not boot, because the kernel was not found. The reason for this was, the BIOS could not
    handle the size of this big partition.

    To fix this and get not in trouble, the idea was to make a small partition which got the kernel and can be booted, then after the kernel has started, BIOS is no more used, because the kernel is handling the paretitiions. Andthe
    kernel can handle very, very big partitions.

    The sesond advantage of putting the kernel so, is , you can mount the kernel partition read-only, so it can not be harmed by any malware.

    For the uprading procedure it is possible (with a little script), to make this
    partition writable, and automatically read-only after upgrade is done.
    (If someone is interested in this, I will paste the script here, these are only 4 lines).

    I might remember, the seperated /boot partition was also default in RedHat, Mandriva and SLAX, but I am not quite sure. It is now a long time ago!

    However, maybe a link is alo no more needed, even with a seperated /boot partition.

    I'm afraid none of this is relevant to the question which was about
    garbage symlinks in /. We know how is /boot used.


    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to kindusmith on Tue Nov 12 18:50:01 2024
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 02:14:34PM +0800, kindusmith wrote:
    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory
    as programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this
    for compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is
    stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains
    the kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense
    to link vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is
    to remove them from the root directory.

    You may alter /etc/kernel-img.conf however you wish.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Iustin Pop@21:1/5 to Michael Stone on Tue Nov 12 23:20:01 2024
    On 2024-11-12 12:45:47, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 02:14:34PM +0800, kindusmith wrote:
    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory as programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this for compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is
    stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains the kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense to link vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is to remove them from the root directory.

    You may alter /etc/kernel-img.conf however you wish.

    The question is why on a default install with grub, which doesn't need
    nor use the symlinks, are they still created. For most systems, they're superfluous.

    iustin, who also dislikes these and always needs to disable them

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco d'Itri@21:1/5 to Iustin Pop on Wed Nov 13 10:40:01 2024
    On Nov 12, Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> wrote:

    The question is why on a default install with grub, which doesn't need
    nor use the symlinks, are they still created. For most systems, they're superfluous.

    iustin, who also dislikes these and always needs to disable them
    Agreed.

    --
    ciao,
    Marco

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  • From Ben Hutchings@21:1/5 to Iustin Pop on Wed Nov 13 21:00:02 2024
    On Tue, 2024-11-12 at 23:10 +0100, Iustin Pop wrote:
    On 2024-11-12 12:45:47, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 02:14:34PM +0800, kindusmith wrote:
    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory as programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this for compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is
    stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains the kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense to link vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is to remove them from the root directory.

    You may alter /etc/kernel-img.conf however you wish.

    The question is why on a default install with grub, which doesn't need
    nor use the symlinks, are they still created. For most systems, they're superfluous.

    iustin, who also dislikes these and always needs to disable them

    I agree they are not normally needed, but I just never got round to
    changing the default.

    Ben.

    --
    Ben Hutchings
    One of the nice things about standards is that
    there are so many of them.


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  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to Iustin Pop on Thu Nov 14 16:40:02 2024
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 11:10:54PM +0100, Iustin Pop wrote:
    On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 02:14:34PM +0800, kindusmith wrote:
    In early Unix, boot and vmunix were both stored in the root directory as >> > programs, and boot was used to start vmunix. Debian inherited this for
    compatibility, but the situation has changed a lot. Today, boot is
    stored in the root directory as a directory, which already contains the
    kernel files vmlinuz and initramfs. Therefore, it makes no sense to link >> > vmlinuz and initamfs to the root directory, so the best way is to remove >> > them from the root directory.

    You may alter /etc/kernel-img.conf however you wish.

    The question is why on a default install with grub, which doesn't need
    nor use the symlinks, are they still created. For most systems, they're >superfluous.

    I don't believe that actually was the question. In fact, I don't think
    there was a question at all, merely a comment to which I added some
    additional information.

    If you wish to influence how things are done, try filing a bug on
    linux-base asking for the defaults to change. I would guess that most
    people that don't obsess over the results of ls / simply don't care.

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  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to Iustin Pop on Thu Nov 14 16:50:01 2024
    On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 04:39:28PM +0100, Iustin Pop wrote:
    Indeed. But even the comment, by itself, I think raises a question - why
    do we (still) do this?

    Because there's very little incentive to change it.

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