Hi,

I can see in journalctl output:

May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/shellinabox' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !

and the corresponding bugs 1039171 and 1039367 say: "This
is in the process of being deprecated and will be removed
by the time Trixie ships, so the remaining packages that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ship init scripts without systemd units will stop working."

What's the status of such packages?

--
Vincent Lef�vre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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* Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> [250507 11:06]:

I can see in journalctl output:

May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/shellinabox' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !

and the corresponding bugs 1039171 and 1039367 say: "This
is in the process of being deprecated and will be removed
by the time Trixie ships, so the remaining packages that >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ship init scripts without systemd units will stop working."

What's the status of such packages?

They have open bugs that need fixing.

For example:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039171

Chris

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On 2025-05-07 12:37:35 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:

* Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> [250507 11:06]:

I can see in journalctl output:

May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/shellinabox' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !

and the corresponding bugs 1039171 and 1039367 say: "This
is in the process of being deprecated and will be removed
by the time Trixie ships, so the remaining packages that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ship init scripts without systemd units will stop working."

What's the status of such packages?

They have open bugs that need fixing.

For example:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039171

Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?

--
Vincent Lef�vre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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El 7/5/25 a las 10:48, Vincent Lefevre escribió:

What's the status of such packages?

For completeness, they are tracked using this usertag:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bluca@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service

Given that there are still 148 open bugs, I would hope systemd maintainers consider not breaking the automatically generated units at this point
in the release cycle and do that after the release of trixie instead.

Thanks.

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El 7/5/25 a las 12:37, Chris Hofstaedtler escribió:

They have open bugs that need fixing.

For example:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039171

Hi. While we are at it, I'd like to have some guidance on a package
for which I received one of such bugs. Asked the question here
but got no reply:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039323#23

The bug is already archived, so I'll transcribe my question here, maybe
there are more cases like mine:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this package (postfix-gld), the service is not enabled automatically, because
it requires a MySQL database which needs to be setup by the end user
first.

If the transitional unit stops working in trixie, does this mean
that I should better make an upload for bookworm-proposed-updates
and tell the user that they should enable it before upgrading
to trixie, so that the upgrade bookworm -> trixie does not
break the service? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks.

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El 7/5/25 a las 15:35, Santiago Vila escribió:

If the transitional unit stops working in trixie, does this mean
that I should better make an upload for bookworm-proposed-updates
and tell the user that they should enable it before upgrading
to trixie, so that the upgrade bookworm -> trixie does not
break the service?

For a system-wide major change like this one, maybe the practical thing
would be to make sure it's properly documented in Release Notes, so
that individual packages may consider the issue "documented enough
by means other than NEWS.Debian".

Thanks.

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On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 03:28:42PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bluca@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service
says they are already at priority important, which doesn't seem obviously
wrong to me.

important
a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without
rendering it completely unusable to everyone.
(from https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#severities )


--
cheers,
Holger

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C
⠈⠳⣄

Climate Justice is that moment when we can start looking each other in the
eyes again. (Luisa Neubauer)

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On May 07, Santiago Vila <sanvila@debian.org> wrote:

Given that there are still 148 open bugs, I would hope systemd maintainers >consider not breaking the automatically generated units at this point
in the release cycle and do that after the release of trixie instead.

Of course! It is clearly too late for this change.

--
ciao,
Marco

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On 2025-05-07 15:03:40 +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:

On Wed, May 07, 2025 at 03:28:42PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bluca@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service
says they are already at priority important, which doesn't seem obviously wrong to me.

important
a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without
rendering it completely unusable to everyone.
(from https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#severities )

The purpose of dictd is to run the daemon. If it can no longer be
started, then it is completely unusable to everyone. (Well, I don't
expect the average user would start it manually, so that a higher
severity would be justified, IMHO.)

--
Vincent Lef�vre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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On 2025-05-07 17:45:51 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:

Am 07.05.25 um 15:28 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:

On 2025-05-07 12:37:35 +0200, Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:

* Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> [250507 11:06]:

I can see in journalctl output:

May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/dictd' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/shellinabox' lacks a native systemd unit file, automatically generating a unit file for compatibility.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: Please update package to include a native systemd unit file.
May 07 10:25:13 qaa systemd-sysv-generator[1476564]: ! This compatibility logic is deprecated, expect removal soon. !

and the corresponding bugs 1039171 and 1039367 say: "This
is in the process of being deprecated and will be removed
by the time Trixie ships, so the remaining packages that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ship init scripts without systemd units will stop working."

What's the status of such packages?

They have open bugs that need fixing.

For example:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1039171

Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?

Trixie still ships the sysv-generator and we are pretty much in freeze right now.

So while I can't speak for Luca, I wouldn't expect that the sysv-generator
is going to be removed at this point in the release cycle or that there are plans to do so.

I read the bug report like this: By the time Trixie ships and once Forky opens up for development, the sysv-generator is going to be removed. I.e. it will be a change affecting Forky, not Trixie.
Which leaves us 2 years to fix the remaining stragglers.

OK, this wasn't clear and this was why I asked for the status of such
package. I understood Chris's message as such bugs need fixing for
Trixie. IMHO, "and will be removed after Trixie" would have been
clearer if this is the intent.

Then, I think that the message "SysV service [...] This compatibility
logic is deprecated, expect removal soon." in the logs is unnecessary
for Trixie.

--
Vincent Lef�vre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Pascaline project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Am 7. Mai 2025 22:50:17 MESZ schrieb Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net>:

Yes, but then, shouldn't the severity be raised (as without
a fix, they will no longer work in Trixie)?

Trixie still ships the sysv-generator and we are pretty much in freeze right >> now.

So while I can't speak for Luca, I wouldn't expect that the sysv-generator >> is going to be removed at this point in the release cycle or that there are >> plans to do so.

I read the bug report like this: By the time Trixie ships and once Forky
opens up for development, the sysv-generator is going to be removed. I.e. it >> will be a change affecting Forky, not Trixie.
Which leaves us 2 years to fix the remaining stragglers.

OK, this wasn't clear and this was why I asked for the status of such >package. I understood Chris's message as such bugs need fixing for
Trixie. IMHO, "and will be removed after Trixie" would have been
clearer if this is the intent.

I guess adding a "forky" (or whatever is appropriate) tag would clarify the intent.


mfh.her.fsr
IOhannes

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