I'm looking for good examples of how Java software is packaged on the
Debian family of operating systems. Ideally, very simple examples with
just a JAR file and a few configuration files. Where can I find such
projects, e.g. on Salsa?

To extend on that, I try to find out how - if at all - (Java) software
can be packaged as a Debian package, so that it can be installed
root-less, i.e. with an unprivileged user. Where can I find
information about that?

Thank you for your help,
Peter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Thank you for responding, Mechtilde!

Please tell us, what you want to package. Then we can look for a similar one.

I packaged software 20 years ago as a Debian package at my former
workplace. IIRC, it was just a bunch of shell and Python scripts,
maybe a few binaries. Back then I had to scale rolling out software on
a fleet of machines. I basically like to do the same again, and I'm
looking for good examples.

Normally all packages are installable as a privileged user like sudo or
root. This means installing with apt install or using synaptic.

Yep, I understand. But is there a way to install software without sudo
or being root? E.g. when my package installs software only in a
location where it has write access. The scenario is, I have users that
must install the software on a managed machine. The system
administrators manage the operating system as such, the users install
and run their software in user space.

Peter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

If you tell us what you want to package, we can tell you a good example
out of more than 50.000 packages

I'm really looking for generic examples. My motivation is using a
standard, widespread convention or otherwise popular tooling for
deploying software (which - at work - is not open source). So that new developers don't need to learn "the process". When you see a "debian"
folder in a repository you probably already guess that the project
will build a .deb package. When you see a .deb package you can easily
guess how it will be installed.

One of the softwares is a Java Web application (delivered to us as a
.jar and some accompanying files) that is deployed into a JBoss
application server preinstalled on the host. The other is actually not
even Java software, it's a bunch of shell scripts and two Python CLI applications that are installed from an internal PyPI index. So, it's
all about copying files somewhere and performing installation
activities that are encapsulated in the .deb file.

location where it has write access. The scenario is, I have users that
must install the software on a managed machine. The system
administrators manage the operating system as such, the users install
and run their software in user space.

As far as I know NO WAY to do so.

Let me mention that for my use case it's sufficient that we assume
there are no dependencies, or that if we have unresolved dependencies
(e.g. most notably a JRE) the installation process aborts brutally.

Doing some research I found a few interesting discussions:
- https://askubuntu.com/questions/339/how-can-i-install-a-package-without-root-access
- https://askubuntu.com/questions/193695/installing-packages-into-local-directory

The two suggested solutions are using `--force-not-root` or simply
unpacking the .deb archive file:

dpkg -i --force-not-root --root=$HOME package.deb
ar p package.deb data.tar.xz | tar xJv --strip-components=2 -f -

The latter will certainly not run pre- or post-install scripts, which
is one of the reasons I want to do the packaging, though. (Encapsulate
the installation logic in the installation package itself!)

Now I would need a simple packaging setup to verify that those
commands actually work for my use case.

Peter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, Sep 14, 2024 at 09:49:44PM +0200, Mechtilde Stehmann wrote:

Am 14.09.24 um 21:25 schrieb Peter Bittner:

If you tell us what you want to package, we can tell you a good example out of more than 50.000 packages

I'm really looking for generic examples. My motivation is using a
standard, widespread convention or otherwise popular tooling for
deploying software (which - at work - is not open source). So that new developers don't need to learn "the process". When you see a "debian" folder in a repository you probably already guess that the project
will build a .deb package. When you see a .deb package you can easily
guess how it will be installed.

One of the softwares is a Java Web application (delivered to us as a
.jar and some accompanying files) that is deployed into a JBoss
application server preinstalled on the host. The other is actually not
even Java software, it's a bunch of shell scripts and two Python CLI applications that are installed from an internal PyPI index. So, it's
all about copying files somewhere and performing installation
activities that are encapsulated in the .deb file.

location where it has write access. The scenario is, I have users that must install the software on a managed machine. The system administrators manage the operating system as such, the users install and run their software in user space.

As far as I know NO WAY to do so.

Let me mention that for my use case it's sufficient that we assume
there are no dependencies, or that if we have unresolved dependencies
(e.g. most notably a JRE) the installation process aborts brutally.

Doing some research I found a few interesting discussions:
- https://askubuntu.com/questions/339/how-can-i-install-a-package-without-root-access
- https://askubuntu.com/questions/193695/installing-packages-into-local-directory

The two suggested solutions are using `--force-not-root` or simply unpacking the .deb archive file:

dpkg -i --force-not-root --root=$HOME package.deb
ar p package.deb data.tar.xz | tar xJv --strip-components=2 -f -

The latter will certainly not run pre- or post-install scripts, which
is one of the reasons I want to do the packaging, though. (Encapsulate
the installation logic in the installation package itself!)

Now I would need a simple packaging setup to verify that those
commands actually work for my use case.

Hello Peter,

Then I think

https://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint.en.html

is a good starting point.

I'm fairly sure that Peter demanded "Give me fish",
that he is not willing to learn how to fish.

I think it is a good thing to make Peter main stakeholder.
It will bring win-win. (Moves away from win-loose ( "win" meaning
getting benefits, "loose" spending resources )


Regarding the original question:
* Enjoy (and support that you can keep doing) `sudo apt install PACKAGE`
* Good luck with "userapt install PACKAGE"



Regards
Geert Stappers
--
Silence is hard to parse

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Dear all,

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm a long-time Debian user and Open
Source project maintainer. In my own projects I continuously struggle
with the fact that an improvement in one project needs to be taken
over to all the other projects.

If you manage several (free software) projects yourself you may know
this feeling: You try to improve the state of a repository, and you
know you've done it before hence you want to avoid reinventing the
wheel. But now you're unsure where the last place was where you had
your latest and greatest solution (call it, "current best practice").

With that said, I know the tutorials on Debian packaging but I'm
interested in actual, living implementation in popular projects,
because that's where you learn current practices best from. People may
perceive this as rude, but it certainly depends on how harsh or
welcoming you want to be. I learned how to fish years ago, now I want
advice from fishers.

What I would recommend in 2024 is that you package your software as a
private .deb — which is fairly straightforward, even if you have
binary blobs that aren't built during the package build — and then
install that inside a suitable base debian container image.

I appreciate your advice, Michael. The point is, I didn't plan to come
here to bore people with discussing my infrastructure implementation
strategy. I don't think it belongs here. Using system packaging is
exactly the intermediate step I want to use for going towards a
cloud-native deployment for a nowadays traditionally deployed,
VM-based setup. Intermediate steps are needed in environments that are reluctant to change. And not getting root-access is one component of
the first equation of that change; having to cope with pre-installed
components on the managed VM is another. But we're leaving the ground
of Debian (and Open Source) here by far.

I had hoped someone would point me to a good example of a popular
project. One that delivers the final JAR, and a Debian maintainer
takes care of packaging only. Maybe because the project doesn't care
about having a Debian package at all. That would cut out the build
part (Maven).

I started my research with Geogebra, didn't find traces in their
GitHub repositories (and it looks like they stopped promoting packages
for Debian at all) and didn't know where to look for the original
packaging code on Salsa. (I found it in the meantime at https://salsa.debian.org/java-team/geogebra)
The colorpicker project
(https://salsa.debian.org/java-team/colorpicker) seems dead-simple,
but it builds from source. Is that good enough? The last code change
is from 12 years ago.

Thank you for your understanding,
Peter

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Hi Peter,

On 14/09/2024 12:01, Peter Bittner wrote:

To extend on that, I try to find out how - if at all - (Java) software
can be packaged as a Debian package, so that it can be installed
root-less, i.e. with an unprivileged user. Where can I find
information about that?

Did you consider using a Flatpak package instead of a Debian package?

Emmanuel Bourg

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