• Request for Clarification on Debian Installation Modes

    From debian@nexgntech.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 15 22:50:01 2024
    This is a multipart message in MIME format.

    Dear All,



    A few days back, I had the opportunity to dive into the OpenWISP / OpenWRT project, and I learned that it is best supported on Debian. While studying,
    I encountered four different modes of installation for Debian, and I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between these modes
    in detail. Specifically, I would like to understand what each mode includes initially and what additional packages can be added later to the operating system.



    Here are the installation modes that I found:

    1. debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso (Size: 3.7G)

    * It seems this is a larger installation image, presumably containing more packages and software.
    * What does this image include by default, and how does it differ from the others in terms of available software?
    * What additional options or desktop environments can be added later?

    2. debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso (Size: 377M)

    * This appears to be a smaller network installation image.
    * Could someone clarify how this image works and what it installs by default?
    * What is the process for adding packages during and after
    installation?

    3. debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso (Size: 903M)

    * This looks like a live image meant for testing or use as a
    lightweight OS.
    * What is included in the "standard" version, and how does it compare
    to the others in terms of pre-installed software?
    * How would one proceed with adding other packages or a desktop environment?

    4. debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce.iso (Size: 2.3G)

    * This image includes the XFCE desktop environment.
    * Besides XFCE, what other software comes pre-installed, and is it possible to switch or add other desktop environments later?



    I would appreciate a detailed explanation to help me make an informed
    decision on which mode to use based on the project requirements.



    Looking forward to your insights.

    BR,

    Muhammad Nadeem Anjum

    Nexgn Infrastructure Technologies (Pvt) Ltd.




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    <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#467886" vlink="#96607D" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>A few days
    back, I had the opportunity to dive into the OpenWISP / OpenWRT project, and I learned that it is best supported on Debian. While studying, I encountered four different modes of installation for Debian, and I would appreciate it if someone could explain
    the differences between these modes in detail. Specifically, I would like to understand what each mode includes initially and what additional packages can be added later to the operating system.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p
    class=MsoNormal>Here are the installation modes that I found:<o:p></o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><b>debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso (Size: 3.7G)</b><o:p></o:p></li><ul style='margin-
    top:0cm' type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>It seems this is a larger installation image, presumably containing more packages and software.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>What does this
    image include by default, and how does it differ from the others in terms of available software?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>What additional options or desktop environments can be added later?<o:p></o:p></li></ul><
    li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><b>debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso (Size: 377M)</b><o:p></o:p></li><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>This appears to be a smaller network
    installation image.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Could someone clarify how this image works and what it installs by default?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>What is the process for
    adding packages during and after installation?<o:p></o:p></li></ul><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><b>debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso (Size: 903M)</b><o:p></o:p></li><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=circle><li class=MsoNormal
    style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>This looks like a live image meant for testing or use as a lightweight OS.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>What is included in the &quot;standard&quot; version, and how does it compare to
    the others in terms of pre-installed software?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>How would one proceed with adding other packages or a desktop environment?<o:p></o:p></li></ul><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level1
    lfo2'><b>debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce.iso (Size: 2.3G)</b><o:p></o:p></li><ul style='margin-top:0cm' type=circle><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>This image includes the XFCE desktop environment.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal
    style='mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2'>Besides XFCE, what other software comes pre-installed, and is it possible to switch or add other desktop environments later?<o:p></o:p></li></ul></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would
    appreciate a detailed explanation to help me make an informed decision on which mode to use based on the project requirements.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Looking forward to your insights.<o:p></o:p></p><p
    class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
    style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Muhammad Nadeem Anjum</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><
    span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Nexgn Infrastructure Technologies (Pvt) Ltd.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Schmitt@21:1/5 to debian@nexgntech.com on Tue Oct 15 23:30:01 2024
    Hi,

    debian@nexgntech.com wrote:
    I encountered four different modes of installation for Debian, and I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between these modes
    in detail. Specifically, I would like to understand what each mode includes initially and what additional packages can be added later to the operating system.

    First: The current "stable" version is Debian 12, not 11.
    For a fresh installation consider the debian*-12.7.0* ISOs on
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

    Regardless of the initial installation method, all packages can be added
    later by internet download and installation. Tools like "apt", "apt-get",
    or "synaptic" do this.
    Desktops, too, can be added and switched after installation.
    (I use fvwm on a system that was initially installed with XFCE.)


    1. debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso (Size: 3.7G)

    This is the first ISO of a set of 21 DVD ISOs available at
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
    If you have all of them, you need no internet for installing any Debian
    package of the 12.7.0 version.
    The first one is sufficient to install a base system. But you will
    most probably need an internet connection for installing some packages
    which are not on DVD 1.

    If you really expect to have no internect connection for dowloading
    a few gigabytes of packages, then you may download larger single ISOs
    which contain nearly all popular packages:
    16 GB:
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-16G/
    25 GB:
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-bd/
    50 GB:
    https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dlbd/
    Merge a whole ISO set to a single all-in-one ISO:
    https://wiki.debian.org/MergeDebianIsos
    They all will boot from a large USB stick or a Blu-ray disc of sufficient
    size.


    debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso

    This is a minimal Debian system that barely has what is needed to download
    and install a fully functional Debian system.
    Use this if you expect to have at installation time an internet connection that's good enough for downloading a handful of gigabytes.


    debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso

    A live ISO without graphical desktop. Possibly useful for testing a
    server system rather than a workstation.


    debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce.iso

    This offers to give you a test ride of Debian with XFCE before you decide whether to install a base system with XFCE. You will need an internet connection to get more packages.


    ... and there are even more ways of installing. See:
    https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/
    especially:
    https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04.en.html


    Have a nice day :)

    Thomas

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Darac Marjal@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 15 23:40:02 2024
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    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/10/2024 21:03,
    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:debian@nexgntech.com">debian@nexgntech.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
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    <div class="WordSection1">
    <p class="MsoNormal">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">A few days back, I had the opportunity to
    dive into the OpenWISP / OpenWRT project, and I learned that
    it is best supported on Debian.</p>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>(For the benefit of other list members, OpenWISP appears to be
    something that installs on top of OpenWRT, using Ansible. So I am
    assuming that the OP is looking for somewhere to run Ansible from)<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <p class="MsoNormal"> While studying, I encountered four
    different modes of installation for Debian, and I would
    appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between
    these modes in detail. Specifically, I would like to
    understand what each mode includes initially and what
    additional packages can be added later to the operating
    system.<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">Here are the installation modes that I
    found:</p>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Be aware that Debian version 11 is the _previous_ stable version
    of Debian. It is not recommended for new installs because it
    receives only minimal support. Better to used Debian 12 which is
    the current stable version.</p>
    <p>For the decision below, the answer essentially comes down to "how
    much do you want to download NOW" versus "how much do you want to
    install each time you install the OS".<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p><br>
    </o:p></p>
    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><b>debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
    (Size: 3.7G)</b><o:p></o:p></li>
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">It
    seems this is a larger installation image, presumably
    containing more packages and software.<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">What
    does this image include by default, and how does it differ
    from the others in terms of available software?<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">What
    additional options or desktop environments can be added
    later?</li>
    </ul>
    </ol>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>This will provide almost everything you would want to install. It
    won't contain every possible package, but if you are installing to
    something where network connectivity will be impossible, or very
    difficult, during the install (e.g. if you need dial-up, or if you
    are on a metered connection), then the DVD may be a good choice.
    You could even order a physical DVD to be delivered to you so that
    you don't even have to download the 3.7G file.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2"><br>
    </li>
    </ul>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><b>debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso
    (Size: 377M)</b><o:p></o:p></li>
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">This
    appears to be a smaller network installation image.<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">Could
    someone clarify how this image works and what it installs
    by default?<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">What
    is the process for adding packages during and after
    installation?<o:p></o:p></li>
    </ul>
    </ol>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    The netinst file is the opposite. This assumes that you <b>will</b>
    have a network connection available during the installation. If you
    have an ethernet connection or if you're installing to a VM in the
    cloud etc, then this is a good option because you can get going
    quicker.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><b>debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso
    (Size: 903M)</b><o:p></o:p></li>
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">This
    looks like a live image meant for testing or use as a
    lightweight OS.<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">What
    is included in the "standard" version, and how does it
    compare to the others in terms of pre-installed software?<o:p></o:p></li>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">How
    would one proceed with adding other packages or a desktop
    environment?</li>
    </ul>
    </ol>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    Yes, the "-live-" variants boot into a Debian OS directly from the
    CD/DVD. You can install Debian from them, but the focus is more
    around providing a temporary system for the purposes of
    demonstration. If you only need to install OpenWISP and then don't
    need the Debian computer any more, this might be an option.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2"><o:p></o:p><br>
    </li>
    </ul>
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><b>debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce.iso
    (Size: 2.3G)</b><o:p></o:p></li>
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">This
    image includes the XFCE desktop environment.</li>
    </ul>
    </ol>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
    <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
    <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">Besides
    XFCE, what other software comes pre-installed, and is it
    possible to switch or add other desktop environments
    later?<o:p></o:p></li>
    </ul>
    </ol>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>None of these options will stop you from installing other
    packages later. If you don't have an internet connection, then the
    DVD installer will give you a "local repository" where you can
    install plenty of software direct from disc. In this instance,
    you'd be restricted to what's available on the disc, but if you do
    install from the DVD and you have access to the internet, then you
    will be able to install packages from both the DVD and the
    internet.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">I would appreciate a detailed explanation
    to help me make an informed decision on which mode to use
    based on the project requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:001901db1f3d$4838a6e0$d8a9f4a0$@nexgntech.com">
    <div class="WordSection1">
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal">Looking forward to your insights.<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Muhammad
    Nadeem Anjum</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Nexgn
    Infrastructure Technologies (Pvt) Ltd.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    </div>
    </blockquote>
    </body>
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  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to debian@nexgntech.com on Tue Oct 15 23:50:01 2024
    Muhammad,

    I will offer you my quick explanation:

    You should end up with the same result, no matter which media you use to install to your computer.

    1) Live media is for people who want to run Debian from a DVD/USB before actually installing to their computer. This allows them to 1) check that their hardware is supported before installing Debian, and 2) check out how Debian looks to see if they like
    Debian or not (before an installation). I have not personally used Live media, but I would expect that you can also then choose to go into the installation of Debian to a drive in your computer.

    2) The netinst.iso is a CD sized installation that only contains the Debian packages to start an installation, then as you go through the installation process, it uses the network (e.g. Internet) to download and install whatever packages are required to
    satisfy the selection of software that you selected during the installation process. An Internet connection is required for the installation (well actually just a network connection to a Debian repository, it is possible for a company to run their own
    Debian repository onsite for installations).

    3) The DVD-1.iso to DVD-X.iso images are DVD sized installation media that you can use from DVD or write to a bootable USB which contain many more Debian packages. My understanding is that the DVD-1.iso contains enough packages to give you a working
    installation of Debian even without an internet connection. If you create the full set of DVD media (DVD-1.iso to DVD-X.iso) I believe you can build a complete Debian Installation even without any Internet connection.

    4) I believe it is possible to create a BluRay or bootable USB of the entire Debian repository of packages by combining the packages using the jigdo tool. This seems like too much effort so I have never bothered to do so.

    If you have Internet access when you are building your Debian Server, then I recommend using the netinst.iso as it is smaller, but the end result will be the same whether you use the live media. I sometimes use a DVD-1 iso.

    If you have Internet access all of the above methods will get the latest packages from the Internet during the installation process, and the final installation will be the same.

    If you have Internet access, the installation process will download the latest packages hence your installation will be fully up to date at the end of the installation process.


    Headless verses GUI installation

    One comment I would like to make in case you are not familiar with is that of a "headless server", which just means not installing a GUI like Gnome/KDE/XFCE, etc but instead only using a terminal interface (CLI) to manage the server. This is a great idea
    as a "headless server" only installs the necessary packages to run Linux without all the applications that a GUI installation has.

    For example if I am installing for a server to run a particular service, like an email server or a web server, I usually do not install a GUI (e.g. I don't install Gnome/KDE/XFCE, etc) or the Desktop environment, I just select install ssh server, then
    after the installation I install any other software that is required.

    A few useful links:
    https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch07.en.html https://www.tecmint.com/setup-headless-linux-server/

    Even if you already knew much of the above information, I hope this helps,

    George.


    On Wednesday, 16-10-2024 at 07:03 debian@nexgntech.com wrote:
    Dear All,



    A few days back, I had the opportunity to dive into the OpenWISP / OpenWRT project, and I learned that it is best supported on Debian. While studying,
    I encountered four different modes of installation for Debian, and I would appreciate it if someone could explain the differences between these modes
    in detail. Specifically, I would like to understand what each mode includes initially and what additional packages can be added later to the operating system.



    Here are the installation modes that I found:

    1. debian-11.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso (Size: 3.7G)

    * It seems this is a larger installation image, presumably containing more packages and software.
    * What does this image include by default, and how does it differ from the others in terms of available software?
    * What additional options or desktop environments can be added later?

    2. debian-11.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso (Size: 377M)

    * This appears to be a smaller network installation image.
    * Could someone clarify how this image works and what it installs by default?
    * What is the process for adding packages during and after
    installation?

    3. debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-standard.iso (Size: 903M)

    * This looks like a live image meant for testing or use as a
    lightweight OS.
    * What is included in the "standard" version, and how does it compare
    to the others in terms of pre-installed software?
    * How would one proceed with adding other packages or a desktop environment?

    4. debian-live-11.0.0-amd64-xfce.iso (Size: 2.3G)

    * This image includes the XFCE desktop environment.
    * Besides XFCE, what other software comes pre-installed, and is it possible to switch or add other desktop environments later?



    I would appreciate a detailed explanation to help me make an informed decision on which mode to use based on the project requirements.



    Looking forward to your insights.

    BR,

    Muhammad Nadeem Anjum

    Nexgn Infrastructure Technologies (Pvt) Ltd.





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