This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk
drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system
goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives).

--
Chris Green

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC):

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why.

How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick with
only the Bookworm .iso.

You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead of
the current MBR mode.

It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during POST,
to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work.

Is a BIOS update available?

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s06.en.html#boot-dev-select-x86
contains other options for booting an ornery UEFI BIOS. (I didn't read it through
to end before first send of this message.)

The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk
drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system
goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives).

--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC):

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why.

How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick with
only the Bookworm .iso.

You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead of
the current MBR mode.

It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during POST,
to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work.

Is a BIOS update available?

The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk
drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system
goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives).

--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Last time I did an install on a UEFI machine (most of my machines are
too old, and of the two that aren't, one is running Coreboot 🙂),
I found out that if the installation media is booted in "legacy BIOS"
mode, then it can't do an install that boots via UEFI.
IOW I had 3 choices:

- Always boot using legacy BIOS mode.
- Always boot using UEFI.
- Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change the install
to use grub-efi, then reboot into my EFI config to "activate" the
right `.efi` installed into the EFI partition.

I started with the first choice, and then a few months later went
through the trouble of the third which required more fiddling and
reboots than I care to admit.


Stefan

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 08:53:02AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Last time I did an install on a UEFI machine (most of my machines are
too old, and of the two that aren't, one is running Coreboot 🙂),
I found out that if the installation media is booted in "legacy BIOS"
mode, then it can't do an install that boots via UEFI.
IOW I had 3 choices:

- Always boot using legacy BIOS mode.
- Always boot using UEFI.
- Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change the install
to use grub-efi, then reboot into my EFI config to "activate" the
right `.efi` installed into the EFI partition.

I started with the first choice, and then a few months later went
through the trouble of the third which required more fiddling and
reboots than I care to admit.

I don't seem to get any choice.

If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it
all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system
won't boot.

I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS
mode" or "Always boot using UEFI".

How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change
the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation
process that would allow me to do this.

--
Chris Green

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 08:31:41AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC):

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why.

How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick with
only the Bookworm .iso.

It's an absolutely standard isohybrid image copied to a USB stick, no
extras.

You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead of
the current MBR mode.

It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during POST,
to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching
your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work.

That'a what I'm doing, the boot device selection offers me UEFI mode
for the USB stick but when I use that it just dumps me at the grub
prompt.

Is a BIOS update available?

Possibly, but I bet I'd need an MS-Windows system to do the update.

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s06.en.html#boot-dev-select-x86
contains other options for booting an ornery UEFI BIOS. (I didn't read it through
to end before first send of this message.)

I've read through that but nothing really helps, there's no options in
the BIOS to change the type of the USB device.

--
Chris Green

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt
or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more
work to recover from.

It's just a "grub>".

Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort?

Oh yes:-

(proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0)
(hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
(hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)

Basically, you have to look around to find the bits of Grub
that you need to load, find the kernel and initrd, and then
boot them.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk
drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system
goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives).

Cheers,
David.

--
Chris Green

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier
today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian
installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB
stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt
or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more
work to recover from.

Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort?

Basically, you have to look around to find the bits of Grub
that you need to load, find the kernel and initrd, and then
boot them.

I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work.

Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in
USB mode?

The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk
drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system
goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives).

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 15:27:44 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt
or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more
work to recover from.

It's just a "grub>".

Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort?

Oh yes:-

(proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
(hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)

So hd0 is the USB stick. I'm not familiar with the view you have
there, so try things like:

ls (hd0,apple1)/
ls (hd0,apple2)/
ls (hd0,msdos2)/

I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view.

If you see directories, try listing them. (Command recall should work
to save typing.)

(In the other thread, c didn't work because you were already
at the command prompt that c gives you.)

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it
all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system
won't boot.

What kind of boot loader did you install? `grub-efi`, `grub-pc`,
something else?
Does your Debian install's boot fail in exactly the same way if you ask
your firmware to boot using legacy BIOS?

I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS
mode" or "Always boot using UEFI".

In my firmware, I can/could choose which boot mode to activate.
So on the Debian side I installed `grub-pc` and on the firmware side
I activated the legacy mode. That made it boot successfully using
legacy BIOS mode.

How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change
the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation process that would allow me to do this.

That's why I said "manually".


Stefan

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 09:41:36 (-0600), David Wright wrote:

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 15:27:44 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote:

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier today.

I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt.

It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt
or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more
work to recover from.

It's just a "grub>".

Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort?

Oh yes:-

(proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
(hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)

So hd0 is the USB stick. I'm not familiar with the view you have
there, so try things like:

ls (hd0,apple1)/
ls (hd0,apple2)/
ls (hd0,msdos2)/

I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view.

If you see directories, try listing them. (Command recall should work
to save typing.)

(In the other thread, c didn't work because you were already
at the command prompt that c gives you.)

Looking at the ISO for Debian 12.7, it looks as if you might be able
to boot into the installer with something like:

grub> set root=(hd0,apple2)
grub> linux install.amd/vmlinuz
grub> initrd install.amd/initrd.gz

If you want expert install (my preference), you might write:
linux install.amd/vmlinuz priority=low
instead. If you have to have a graphical installer, you might
get one with install.amd/gtk/ in place of install.amd/ .

The reason I used apple2 is because viewing
gdisk debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
as a GPT partition table gives a listing with only partition 2.
But you lose nothing by trying any and all possibilities.

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 11:19:50AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:

If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it
all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system
won't boot.

What kind of boot loader did you install? `grub-efi`, `grub-pc`,
something else?

I'm not given a choice, it just installs whatever it thinks is right
(I assume).

Does your Debian install's boot fail in exactly the same way if you ask
your firmware to boot using legacy BIOS?

Yes, I just tried that, set 'Legacy only' in the BIOS and I get to the
same non-working, blank screen.

I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS
mode" or "Always boot using UEFI".

In my firmware, I can/could choose which boot mode to activate.
So on the Debian side I installed `grub-pc` and on the firmware side
I activated the legacy mode. That made it boot successfully using
legacy BIOS mode.

Yes, I can select 'legacy only' in the BIOS but I don't see anwhere
that I can select `grub-pc` to install.

How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change
the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation process that would allow me to do this.

That's why I said "manually".

Stefan

--
Chris Green

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Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 15:27 (UTC):

(proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
(hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)

On all my GPT disks, the required ESP filesystem is on (hd0,gpt1). Presumably your
ESP is on (hd1,gpt1). Given the data provided in your OP about your Q556, I would
expect to see (hd1,gpt2) as a /boot/ partition to support your lvm /. Instead you
have only swap and / on your (hd1). I wasn't aware that LVM users no longer needed
a separate /boot/ filesystem.

Modern PCs no longer "require" Windows to upgrade a BIOS. Instead, most offer an
assortment of possible methods, one of which is booting into BIOS setup utility that will find a new BIOS on a FAT formatted USB stick. Some are reputedly capable
of getting the new BIOS directly off the internet.

Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 14:49 (UTC):

Felix Miata wrote:

You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead
of the current MBR mode.

You seem to have skipped addressing this directly. It appears from your Grub shell
ls output that you may have, but differently from what worked on the working other
system, instead, creating a swap, and omitting a /boot/. Comparing ls output from
the other system might be useful.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Chris Green wrote:

(proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
(hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)

David Wright wrote:

So hd0 is the USB stick.

Looks like that. Apple Partition Map is not much in use on amd64 disks.

I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view.

If this is something like debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso , then
(hd0,apple1) is possibly the non-mountable overall Apple Partition Map
range entry.

(hd0,apple2) and (hd0,msdos2) would both point to the ISO's EFI
System Partition. Quite small: 9.5 MB.

(hd0) would be the ISO 9660 filesystem.
This is what i expect Linux to need as root filesystem.

----------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical note:

David Wright wrote:

The reason I used apple2 is because viewing
gdisk debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
as a GPT partition table gives a listing with only partition 2.

debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso has three partition tables:

- A valid MBR ("msdos") partition table with unusual layout.
Partition 1 begins at LBA 0 and encloses partition 2.
(GRUB does not believe in such a partition and thus shows only
MBR partition 2 as (hd0,msdos2).)
Partition 2 marks the EFI boot image. This boot image serves as
EFI System Partition when booting starts from an USB stick.

- A valid Apple Partition Map which quite uselessly marks the EFI
boot image, too. EFI does not look at Apple partition maps.
(Historically it stems from a small HFS+ filesystem image, which
helpded Fedora ISOs to boot some pre-EFI Macs.)

- An invalid GPT, not announced by the MBR partition table.
Some older EFI firmwares do not consider a device for booting if it
does not have a GPT header block.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I have found how to get it to install, I removed the other (SATA SSD)
disk drive. It now boots successfully, phew!

I've no idea why that second drive breaks things. I installed it when
I was still running xubuntu 24.04 and that OS could see the drive OK.
I actually copied the whole of my old (xubuntu) installation across
onto that drive.

I will try putting it back later to see if it breaks the Debian 12
installtion but for the moment I'm just relieved I've got it working
at last!


Thanks for all the help everyone.

I'll try and investigate why the drive broke things but that can wait
until tomorrow, I'm worn out watching installations! :-)

--
Chris Green

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 17:17:44 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

I have found how to get it to install, I removed the other (SATA SSD)
disk drive. It now boots successfully, phew!

Good.

I've no idea why that second drive breaks things. I installed it when
I was still running xubuntu 24.04 and that OS could see the drive OK.
I actually copied the whole of my old (xubuntu) installation across
onto that drive.

So you copied the entire system, with an ESP, onto sda, and then
tried to install Debian onto nvme0n1, but always unsuccessfully
with UEFI, and apparently successfully with MBR?

What were the partitions in the old installation, and how did you
make the copy on the second disk: by copying the entire nvme0n1 disk,
or copying partitions nvme0n1p1, nvme0n1p2, etc, or just recursive
copies of the files in each partition into new filesystems created
on sda.

That information might well yield the reason that the installation
stick wouldn't boot correctly. After reading Thomas's post about
which partition is which on the stick, I think that:

grub> set root=(hd0)
grub> linux install.amd/vmlinuz
grub> initrd install.amd/initrd.gz

would likely have got the Debian installer running in UEFI mode.

I will try putting it back later to see if it breaks the Debian 12 installtion but for the moment I'm just relieved I've got it working
at last!

It shouldn't break it, because you should have a freshly written
and consistent set of efivars, ESP partition, and grub.cfg on
nvme0n1. There's one possible wrinkle that I can think of, but it
depends on how that copying onto the second drive was carried out.

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:

On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 17:17:44 (+0000), Chris Green wrote:

I have found how to get it to install, I removed the other (SATA SSD)
disk drive. It now boots successfully, phew!

Good.

I've no idea why that second drive breaks things. I installed it when
I was still running xubuntu 24.04 and that OS could see the drive OK.
I actually copied the whole of my old (xubuntu) installation across
onto that drive.

So you copied the entire system, with an ESP, onto sda, and then
tried to install Debian onto nvme0n1, but always unsuccessfully
with UEFI, and apparently successfully with MBR?

No, it wasn't a clone - see below.

What were the partitions in the old installation, and how did you
make the copy on the second disk: by copying the entire nvme0n1 disk,
or copying partitions nvme0n1p1, nvme0n1p2, etc, or just recursive
copies of the files in each partition into new filesystems created
on sda.

That information might well yield the reason that the installation
stick wouldn't boot correctly. After reading Thomas's post about
which partition is which on the stick, I think that:

grub> set root=(hd0)
grub> linux install.amd/vmlinuz
grub> initrd install.amd/initrd.gz

would likely have got the Debian installer running in UEFI mode.

I will try putting it back later to see if it breaks the Debian 12 installtion but for the moment I'm just relieved I've got it working
at last!

It shouldn't break it, because you should have a freshly written
and consistent set of efivars, ESP partition, and grub.cfg on
nvme0n1. There's one possible wrinkle that I can think of, but it
depends on how that copying onto the second drive was carried out.

It wasn't a 'clone' I just copied the major root level directories
using rsync. I.e. I did:-

rsync -a /etc /home /opt /root /usr /var /mnt

With the added disk mounted on /mnt. Thus there was no boot/grub type
stuff copied to the added disk and it was brand new so had nothing on
it before.

It's now re-installed (the disk drive that is) and is working
perfectly which I'm pleased about as it simplified configuring the new
Debian 12 installation. I do have 'off site' (as, in the garage)
backups as well but they would have been more laborious to extract
things from.

--
Chris Green
·

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