​Hi,


What are the chances that when Debian Trixie is released it will
include packaged Nvidia proprietary 560 drivers (these drivers are
currently in beta) ?


Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support
Wayland or Steam 3D action games.


If I am incorrect please tell me which Debian package to install, and
in what circumstances the above is possible.


My guess is that Nvidia software development support for Wayland and
Linux is still changing, and whether that change is completed by the
time Trixie is frozen or released, I am not sure? I would assume (but
it is only a guess), that 1) Nvidia 560 drivers finally support Linux
Wayland and 3D gaming, and 2) once Nvidia 560 drivers are no longer in
beta, they will be updated into the current Debian stable packaged
Nvidia proprietary drivers. Am I correct ? Or way too hopeful?


My above assumptions are based on comments from the Internet, and my
testing as described below.


The Nvidia graphics card I am currently testing with is a GeForce RTX
2070. (on an Intel i5 2nd Gen CPU and motherboard, 1920x1080 display)


This PC is currently dual booting Debian Trixie KDE (with Debian
packaged Nvidia 535 drivers), and Fedora 21 Gnome since yesterday when
I installed Fedora 41 Gnome and then installed the "NVIDIA Linux
Graphics Driver" (rpmfusion-nonfree-nvidia-driver) from the "Sofware"
app.


With Debian Trixie KDE I can only log into KDE with X11, when I try to
log in with Wayland, the login fails and returns to the SDDM login
screen.


With Fedora 41 (running Nvidia 560 beta drivers), it is running
Wayland, and in Steam I can run the 3D game "Planet Crafter" smoothly
as I would on Windows.



I found this quote, though about 6 months old, seems to explain the
same as I experience: "Nvidia 555 is the beta and plays pretty well
with wayland which provides explicit sync. I would recommend waiting
for 560 which should release next month or so.".


George.



Another useful post on the Internet "The easiest way is to run
xwininfo in a terminal - then when you hover over an xwayland window
the mouse pointer will turn into a + sign.".



Information:



# lspci -n -n -k | grep -A 2 -e VGA -e 3D
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation TU106
[GeForce RTX 2070 Rev. A] [10de:1f07] (rev a1)
    Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device [1043:8784]
    Kernel driver in use: nvidia
$ glxinfo | grep -i vendor
server glx vendor string: SGI
client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation


[Fedora 41]
$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version
NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module  560.35.03  Fri Aug
16 21:39:15 UTC 2024
GCC version:  gcc version 14.2.1 20240912 (Red Hat 14.2.1-3) (GCC)

[Debian KDE]
$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version
NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module  535.183.06  Wed Jun
26 06:46:07 UTC 2024
GCC version:  gcc version 14.2.0 (Debian 14.2.0-8)
(after installing updates version went to ...535.216.01)


---------------------------
Nvidia Beta drivers


https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/230225/en-us/
Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver
Version:     560.28.03 BETA

https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/224751/en-us/
Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver
Version:     555.42.02 BETA
Release Date:     2024.5.21

GeForce RTX 20 Series:
GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2080, GeForce
RTX 2070 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2070, GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER, GeForce RTX
2060

---------------------------------------
Nvidia Production drivers for GeForce RTX 2070 | Linux 64-bit:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/results/



Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver
Driver Version:550.135  Release Date:Tue Nov 19, 2024  File
Size:307.35 MB

Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver
Driver Version:550.127.05  Release Date:Tue Oct 22, 2024  File
Size:307.14 MB

Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver
Driver Version:535.216.01  Release Date:Tue Oct 22, 2024  File
Size:341.87 MB

------------------------------------------

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<body><div>​Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>What are the chances that when Debian Trixie is&nbsp;released it will include packaged Nvidia proprietary 560 drivers (these drivers are currently in beta) ?</div><div><br></div><div>Judging by my own
experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support Wayland or Steam 3D action games.</div><div><br></div><div>If I am incorrect please tell me which Debian package to install, and in
what circumstances the above is possible.</div><div><br></div><div>My guess is that Nvidia software development support for Wayland and
Linux is still changing, and whether that change is completed by the time Trixie is frozen or released, I am not sure? I would assume (but it is
only a guess), that 1) Nvidia 560 drivers finally support Linux Wayland
and 3D gaming, and 2) once Nvidia 560 drivers are no longer in beta,
they will be updated into the current Debian stable packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers. Am I correct ? Or way too hopeful?</div><div><br></div><div>My above assumptions are based on comments from the Internet, and my testing as described below.</div><

<br></div><div>The Nvidia graphics card I am currently testing with is a GeForce RTX 2070. (on an Intel i5 2nd Gen CPU and motherboard, 1920x1080 display)</div><div><br></div><div>This PC is currently dual booting Debian Trixie KDE (with Debian

packaged Nvidia 535 drivers), and Fedora 21 Gnome since yesterday when I installed Fedora 41 Gnome and then installed the "NVIDIA Linux Graphics Driver" (rpmfusion-nonfree-nvidia-driver) from the "Sofware" app.</div><div><br></div><div>With Debian Trixie
KDE I can only log into KDE with X11, when I try to log in with Wayland, the login fails and returns to the SDDM login screen.</div><div><br></div><div>With Fedora 41 (running Nvidia 560 <b>beta</b> drivers), it is running Wayland, and in Steam I can run
the 3D game "Planet Crafter" smoothly as I would on Windows. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I found this quote, though about 6 months old, seems to explain the same as I experience: "Nvidia 555 is the beta and plays pretty well with wayland which provides
explicit sync. I would recommend waiting for 560 which should release next month or so.".</div><div><br></div><div>George.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Another useful post on the Internet "The easiest way is to run <b>xwininfo</b> in a terminal - then
when you hover over an xwayland window the mouse pointer will turn into a + sign.".<br></div><div><br></div><div>Information:<br></div><div><br></div><div># lspci -n -n -k | grep -A 2 -e VGA -e 3D<br>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA
Corporation TU106 [GeForce RTX 2070 Rev. A] [10de:1f07] (rev a1)<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device [1043:8784]<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Kernel driver in use: nvidia</div><div>$ glxinfo | grep -i vendor<br>server glx vendor string:
SGI<br>client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation<br>OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation</div><div><br></div><div>[Fedora 41]<br>$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version<br>NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module&nbsp; 560.35.03&nbsp; Fri Aug 16
21:39:15 UTC 2024<br>GCC version:&nbsp; gcc version 14.2.1 20240912 (Red Hat 14.2.1-3) (GCC) <br><br>[Debian KDE]<br>$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version<br>NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module&nbsp; 535.183.06&nbsp; Wed Jun 26 06:46:07 UTC 2024<

GCC version:&nbsp; gcc version 14.2.0 (Debian 14.2.0-8)<br>(after installing updates version went to ...535.216.01)</div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------</div><div>Nvidia Beta drivers</div><div><br></div><div>https://www.nvidia.com/

download/driverResults.aspx/230225/en-us/<br>Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver<br>Version:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 560.28.03 BETA<br><br>https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/224751/en-us/<br>Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver<br>
Version:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 555.42.02 BETA<br>Release Date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2024.5.21<br><br>GeForce RTX 20 Series:<br>GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2080, GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2070, GeForce RTX 2060
SUPER, GeForce RTX 2060<br><br>---------------------------------------</div><div>Nvidia Production drivers for GeForce RTX 2070 | Linux 64-bit:<br></div><div>https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/results/<br></div><div><br></div><div>Linux x64 (AMD64/
EM64T) Display Driver<br>Driver Version:550.135&nbsp; Release Date:Tue Nov 19, 2024&nbsp; File Size:307.35 MB<br><br>Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver<br>Driver Version:550.127.05&nbsp; Release Date:Tue Oct 22, 2024&nbsp; File Size:307.14 MB<br><br>
Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver<br>Driver Version:535.216.01&nbsp; Release Date:Tue Oct 22, 2024&nbsp; File Size:341.87 MB<br><br>------------------------------------------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></body></html>

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George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> writes:

​Hi,

What are the chances that when Debian Trixie is released it will include packaged Nvidia proprietary 560 drivers (these drivers are currently in
beta) ?

I don't know the odds but beta drivers don't seem to go even in
experimental which has 545 at the moment. But considering Trixie is
maybe coming next year, there's a good chance those drivers will make it
in Trixie, either at release or provided later in backports.

Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support Wayland or
Steam 3D action games.

I guess you mean in Wayland. "Steam 3D action games" are certainly
supported in X. That doesn't mean XWayland though since that's still
Wayland.

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On Wednesday, 20-11-2024 at 18:52 Anssi Saari wrote:

George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> writes:

​Hi,

What are the chances that when Debian Trixie is released it will include packaged Nvidia proprietary 560 drivers (these drivers are currently in
beta) ?

I don't know the odds but beta drivers don't seem to go even in
experimental which has 545 at the moment. But considering Trixie is
maybe coming next year, there's a good chance those drivers will make it
in Trixie, either at release or provided later in backports.

Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support Wayland or
Steam 3D action games.

I guess you mean in Wayland. "Steam 3D action games" are certainly
supported in X. That doesn't mean XWayland though since that's still
Wayland.

Yes, Wayland. But also Steam Games, as my Nvidia 960 was not able to play the Steam game "Planet Crafter" at any usable performance (XFCE, X11). Once I replace my Nvidia card with a Radeon RX 6600, the game play was smooth and stable.



Thanks for your reply.

I look forward to "Nvidia loves Linux and Wayland" and a stable, production 560 version coming to Debian (there are currently a number of complaints about instability with the beta version, but that is to be expected with a beta version). Maybe, just
maybe the Nvidia cards I replaced with Radeon cards can still be put back into use.



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Hi,

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 05:15:47PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:

Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support
Wayland or Steam 3D action games.

If I am incorrect please tell me which Debian package to install, and
in what circumstances the above is possible.

I am using Nvidia 535.146.02 on Debian 12 (bookworm) with Wayland and
GNOME. I don't play many action games, but Dwarf Fortress and Factorio
work fine for me via Steam.

I did install the Nvidia drivers from nvidia themselves, not as a Debian package.

My GPU is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti.

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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On Thursday, 21-11-2024 at 01:06 Andy Smith wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 05:15:47PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:

Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support
Wayland or Steam 3D action games.

If I am incorrect please tell me which Debian package to install, and
in what circumstances the above is possible.

I am using Nvidia 535.146.02 on Debian 12 (bookworm) with Wayland and
GNOME. I don't play many action games, but Dwarf Fortress and Factorio
work fine for me via Steam.

Thanks for the info.

I did install the Nvidia drivers from nvidia themselves, not as a Debian package.

My GPU is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti.

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> writes:

Yes, Wayland. But also Steam Games, as my Nvidia 960 was not able to
play the Steam game "Planet Crafter" at any usable performance (XFCE,
X11). Once I replace my Nvidia card with a Radeon RX 6600, the game
play was smooth and stable.

That's a Windows game though, isn't it? So it's a question of Windows
emulation which would have a few (zillion) more moving parts than just
video drivers. ProtonDB does list it as compatible so maybe it should
work. I gave that game's demo version a quick try but nada. It crashed immediately with a complaint about DirectX 11. Tried Proton 9 and
experimental.

This was in Debian 11 and Nvidia drivers 470.256 so maybe that's too far behind.

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Thank you for replying,

On Friday, 22-11-2024 at 08:02 Anssi Saari wrote:

George at Clug <Clug@goproject.info> writes:

Yes, Wayland. But also Steam Games, as my Nvidia 960 was not able to
play the Steam game "Planet Crafter" at any usable performance (XFCE,
X11). Once I replace my Nvidia card with a Radeon RX 6600, the game
play was smooth and stable.

That's a Windows game though, isn't it?

Yes, it is a Windows game, and I thank Steam they have games like this working in Compatibility mode. Steam also allows me to install non-Steam games (whether that works or not, depends on many things, but has allowed me to run some Windows games we like)
.

The Steam game "Planet Crafter" works great on Radeon video cards, and from testing tonight also on Nvidia 535 drivers (and [likely] above). Sadly I cannot log into KDE with Wayland using the 535 drivers.

So it's a question of Windows
emulation which would have a few (zillion) more moving parts than just
video drivers. ProtonDB does list it as compatible so maybe it should
work. I gave that game's demo version a quick try but nada. It crashed immediately with a complaint about DirectX 11. Tried Proton 9 and experimental.

This was in Debian 11 and Nvidia drivers 470.256 so maybe that's too far behind.

I do not recall the version of Nvidia drivers I was using when I could not get Planet Crafter to work.



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On Thursday, 21-11-2024 at 01:06 Andy Smith wrote:

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 05:15:47PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:

Judging by my own experiences, Debian Bookworm and Trixie, is that the currently packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers (535) do not support
Wayland or Steam 3D action games.

If I am incorrect please tell me which Debian package to install, and
in what circumstances the above is possible.

I am using Nvidia 535.146.02 on Debian 12 (bookworm) with Wayland and
GNOME. I don't play many action games, but Dwarf Fortress and Factorio
work fine for me via Steam.

Andy, Since you said that "Nvidia 535.146.02 on Debian 12" was working for you, tonight I tested and found that Steam game Planet Crafter worked well (smooth movement) on my test Debian Trixie, KDE, X11 (not Wayland) with Debian packaged Nvidia
proprietary drivers version 535.216.01 using an RTX 2070 on an i5 PC. I am pleased and impressed. Sometime ago this had not worked for me in Bookworm. I do not recall what version of drivers were used back then.

I assume if I were to install the 560 beta drivers Wayland for KDE would work, but that is only a guess unless I manually installed the drivers to prove this. Since my goal is to see standard packaged drivers from Debian repositories deliver a working
solution without manual changes, it is unlikely I will bother as once 560 drivers reach production and are packaged, I expect all will work with just Debian packaged Nvidia proprietary drivers.

At this point in time with the 535 drivers, what I cannot do is log into KDE when selecting Wayland. Attempting to do so returns me back to the log on screen. I can log in when selecting X11.

$ cat /proc/driver/nvidia/version
NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module 535.216.01 Tue Sep 17 16:54:04 UTC 2024
GCC version: gcc version 14.2.0 (Debian 14.2.0-8)

I did install the Nvidia drivers from nvidia themselves, not as a Debian package.

My GPU is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti.

A very nice card.

George.

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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