Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.That message is about as useful, as ...
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
On Mon, Dec 09, 2024 at 09:59:17AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Thanks Andy.
Hi Gene,
We need more details than this.
1. Which version of Debian? 12 fully uptodate a/o yesterday and again this morning
2. Any log files? can't find any for t-bird, where would they be?
3. What's running when the machine crashes? about 150 threads, this i the heart machine of my local net
4. What's changed recently t-bird and security stuffs
I've dl'd the beta build from their site, lots of differences, but solid, dead stable
All best, as ever,
Andy Cater
(amacater@debian.org)
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET..
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
On 12/9/24 06:59, gene heskett wrote:
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
If your computer is crashing within a minute, consider printing thisA: It didn't last long enough to even get this msg.
e-mail.
I assume the subject "restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze"Yes, its stable as long as the debian version of t-bird wasn't running,
refers to your Asus PRIME Z370-A II desktop/ workstation/ storage
server computer (?).
I suggest:
1. Disconnect all internal and external drives.
2. Connect the 1 TB WD Black M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 SSD into motherboard
slot M.2_1.
3. Boot into Setup, reset all settings to factory defaults, save, and
exit.
4. Boot the Debian Stable installer into a rescue shell or boot Clonezilla. Connect a large USB HDD with free space. Back up the M.2
SSD to the USB HDD. Connect another large USB HDD with free space and backup again. Power down. Disconnect USB HDD's.
5. Boot the Debian Stable installer into a rescue shell. Zero fill
or secure erase the M.2 SSD.
5. Do a fresh install of Debian with a supported graphical desktop environment (I use Xfce). Keep it simple and small (16 GB). Only
install official Debian packages. Record every question asked by d-i
and your answers -- use pencil and paper if you do not have an
available computer. Power down.
6. Boot the Debian installer into a rescue shell or boot Clonezilla. Connect a large USB HDD with free space. Use dd(1) to take an image
of the M.2 SSD to the HDD. Repeat with second USB HDD. Power down. Disconnect USB HDD's.
7. Boot into the new OS. Reconnect/ reconfigure the various data
drives, one data set at a time. Back up each data set as you go.
8. Install a hypervisor. Add a partition to the M.2 SSD for virtual machines. Create a VM for your daily driver and install whatever OS
and desktop you please. Create VM's for each of your specialty
applications with whatever software each needs. Configure host data
set access as required for each VM. Recover anything needed from the
M.2 SSD image from step #4. Shutdown, snapshot, and export/ backup
each VM as you go.
David
.
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then your Debian installation is broken.
On 12/9/24 20:51, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/9/24 06:59, gene heskett wrote:A: It didn't last long enough to even get this msg.
If your computer is crashing within a minute, consider printing this
e-mail.
B: I dl'd the beta from the mozilla site, works differently but has not crashed in about 36 hours now. It didn't crash if the debian supplied
version wasn't running so the dl was w/o excitement.
I assume the subject "restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze"Yes, its stable as long as the debian version of t-bird wasn't running,
refers to your Asus PRIME Z370-A II desktop/ workstation/ storage
server computer (?).
start it and it locked the system up while fetching the initial imap
scan for new msgs. I didn't track how many times I tried, 10 or more I guess.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 18:01:24 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then your Debian
installation is broken.
Or the hardware is broken. Running a specfic program may exercise the
broken hardware in a way that causes it to fail, while other programs
do not.
On 12/10/24 18:07, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 18:01:24 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then your
Debian
installation is broken.
Or the hardware is broken. Running a specfic program may exercise the
broken hardware in a way that causes it to fail, while other programs
do not.
If the OP runs Debian OOTB, okay. But, Gene does anything but that.
David
.
On 12/10/24 13:51, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/9/24 20:51, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/9/24 06:59, gene heskett wrote:A: It didn't last long enough to even get this msg.
If your computer is crashing within a minute, consider printing this
e-mail.
Understood.
B: I dl'd the beta from the mozilla site, works differently but has
not crashed in about 36 hours now. It didn't crash if the debian
supplied version wasn't running so the dl was w/o excitement.
On the one hand, I am glad the computer is no longer crashing.
On the other hand, I expect that you will continue to use the computer
in the same way; and that you will not identify and fix root cause
issues.
I assume the subject "restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze"Yes, its stable as long as the debian version of t-bird wasn't
refers to your Asus PRIME Z370-A II desktop/ workstation/ storage
server computer (?).
running, start it and it locked the system up while fetching the
initial imap scan for new msgs. I didn't track how many times I
tried, 10 or more I guess.
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then yourIt is indeed, David. The package managers apt and synaptic cannot find
Debian installation is broken. Given the complexity of your haystack,
I expect finding and fixing the needle(s) would be time prohibitive.
When I destabilize a system, my preferred solution is a backup,
re-image, and restore cycle. To make this solution possible, I have invested myself in disaster preparedness. And, I must continue
investing effort on a regular basis to keep it viable.
When all I had was data backups, my best option was backup, wipe,
fresh install, and restore.
Things were truly scary before I had decent data backups.
If you rebuild the computer as a hypervisor host (using the NVMe PCIe
SSD) and a storage server (using the various SATA SSD's), you can do
all the experimentation you want inside virtual machines. If a VM
blows up, the base system keeps running and so do the other VM's.
This removes your current problem of "all of your eggs in one
basket". Also, a good hypervisor makes it easy to snapshot and revert VM's. This facilitates disaster preparedness and disaster recovery
for the VM's. You would still need data backups; use the HDD's.
David
.
installation is broken. Given the complexity of your haystack, I expect finding and fixing the needle(s) would be time prohibitive.It is indeed, David. The package managers apt and synaptic cannot find anything wrong, and I should be on record as reporting that opening any
local file takes a minimum of 30 seconds to pop up the requester, during which time the system is also locked. I've installed some stuff folks have suggested to no avail so I gave up wasting everybody's time and just put up with it. memtest86 has toured the 32gigs several times but doesn't find anything. Frustrating but apparently it hasn't bothered anyone else. It
would very helpful if something stuck up a hand or did the gotta pee dance but in 2 years nothing has. Maybe its something leftover from ripping out orca and brltty that I tried to stop by a fresh install around 30 times.
The installer put them in even when I said no.
When I destabilize a system, my preferred solution is a backup,
re-image, and restore cycle. To make this solution possible, I have invested myself in disaster preparedness. And, I must continue
investing effort on a regular basis to keep it viable.
When all I had was data backups, my best option was backup, wipe, fresh install, and restore.
Things were truly scary before I had decent data backups.
If you rebuild the computer as a hypervisor host (using the NVMe PCIe
SSD) and a storage server (using the various SATA SSD's), you can do all the experimentation you want inside virtual machines. If a VM blows up,
the base system keeps running and so do the other VM's. This removes
your current problem of "all of your eggs in one basket". Also, a good hypervisor makes it easy to snapshot and revert VM's. This facilitates disaster preparedness and disaster recovery for the VM's. You would
still need data backups; use the HDD's.
David
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
The current debian supplied t-bird doesn't [work].
And I'm here to say I've also had problems I've imputed to Tbird, based
on the fact that when Tbird is NOT running, the systme is as solid as a
rock.
The package managers apt and synaptic cannot find
anything wrong, and I should be on record as reporting that opening any
local file takes a minimum of 30 seconds to pop up the requester, during which time the system is also locked.
I've installed some stuff folks
have suggested to no avail so I gave up wasting everybody's time and
just put up with it.
memtest86 has toured the 32gigs several times but
doesn't find anything. Frustrating but apparently it hasn't bothered
anyone else. It would very helpful if something stuck up a hand or did
the gotta pee dance but in 2 years nothing has. Maybe its something
leftover from ripping out orca and brltty that I tried to stop by a
fresh install around 30 times. The installer put them in even when I
said no.
On 12/10/24 22:17, gene heskett wrote:
I should be on record as reporting that opening any local file takes
a minimum of 30 seconds to pop up the requester, during which time
the system is also locked.
That symptom alone would compel me to reinstall.
I migrated my data to a dedicated storage server years ago. This has worked very well for me. I recommend that you do the same. If and when you do, KISS.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 01:17:37AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
Gene,installation is broken. Given the complexity of your haystack, I expect >>> finding and fixing the needle(s) would be time prohibitive.It is indeed, David. The package managers apt and synaptic cannot find
anything wrong, and I should be on record as reporting that opening any
local file takes a minimum of 30 seconds to pop up the requester, during
which time the system is also locked. I've installed some stuff folks have >> suggested to no avail so I gave up wasting everybody's time and just put up >> with it. memtest86 has toured the 32gigs several times but doesn't find
anything. Frustrating but apparently it hasn't bothered anyone else. It
would very helpful if something stuck up a hand or did the gotta pee dance >> but in 2 years nothing has. Maybe its something leftover from ripping out
orca and brltty that I tried to stop by a fresh install around 30 times.
The installer put them in even when I said no.
You make life difficult for yourself (and, coincidentally, for the rest of us who try to follow what you've done :) )
You've got an NVME drive that's unused, I think, that you could put onto your motherboard. Bring your system to the minimum you can - disconnect the other drives for the meantime. Install Debian to that drive - standard, stable Debian.
Gradually reinstate the other drives and potentially copy data across once you have a simple stable Debian 12.
The 30 installs you did resulted in a whole stream of annoyed emails: that was
almost entirely because you had a USB serial device. Simplify, simplify, simplify.
If all else fails, get hold of a secondhand machine that you can use to troubleshoot problems like this rather than your main machine.
All best, as ever,
Andy Cater
(amacater@debian.org)
When I destabilize a system, my preferred solution is a backup,
re-image, and restore cycle. To make this solution possible, I have
invested myself in disaster preparedness. And, I must continue
investing effort on a regular basis to keep it viable.
When all I had was data backups, my best option was backup, wipe, fresh
install, and restore.
Things were truly scary before I had decent data backups.
If you rebuild the computer as a hypervisor host (using the NVMe PCIe
SSD) and a storage server (using the various SATA SSD's), you can do all >>> the experimentation you want inside virtual machines. If a VM blows up,
the base system keeps running and so do the other VM's. This removes
your current problem of "all of your eggs in one basket". Also, a good >>> hypervisor makes it easy to snapshot and revert VM's. This facilitates >>> disaster preparedness and disaster recovery for the VM's. You would
still need data backups; use the HDD's.
David
.
On 12/10/24 22:17, gene heskett wrote:
The package managers apt and synaptic cannot find anything wrong, and
I should be on record as reporting that opening any local file takes
a minimum of 30 seconds to pop up the requester, during which time
the system is also locked.
That symptom alone would compel me to reinstall.
I've installed some stuff folks have suggested to no avail so I gave
up wasting everybody's time and just put up with it.
I migrated my data to a dedicated storage server years ago. This has
worked very well for me. I recommend that you do the same. If and
when you do, KISS.
memtest86 has toured the 32gigs several times but doesn't find
anything. Frustrating but apparently it hasn't bothered anyone else.
It would very helpful if something stuck up a hand or did the gotta
pee dance but in 2 years nothing has. Maybe its something leftover
from ripping out orca and brltty that I tried to stop by a fresh
install around 30 times. The installer put them in even when I said no.
Unless and until you boil down your hardware, software, and
configuration settings to a minimum, write a shell script that evokes
the issue every time, and file a complete bug report, you have only
yourself to blame.
David
.
Alright, here's some clues: I cannot use digiKam to retrieve pix fron my camera, it will not wait on his lag. Shotwell will wait but suffers from
this lag. Adding strace to the cli invocation may work, or may not.
Noobvious error in the strce if it works, Prusaslicer spits out all sort of gfx related stuff but runs normally once it draws its gui. And in all cases the time lag is there.
First, I don't own a wired mouse except the serial
interfaced one on my now dead from nearly 40 yo caps trs-80 color
computer
3. So hooking that up would probably trigger the install of
orca and brltty despite specifically skipping by that question from the installer.. IDK, haven't tried it.
Won't do this below either, because
putting it back together would be the equ of pulling a new mobo out of
the box and building it all up from scratch again.
Those 2 slots, rumor
has it only 1 will work, but which one? No one can tell me.
2. Connect the 1 TB WD Black M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 SSD into motherboard
slot M.2_1.
They are buried UNDER several other cards,
Maybe by then wifi will
be secure, it is sure not now when a neighbor with a hell fone can use
60GB of my bandwidth a month w/o leaving a log. That was not found
until i had a new printer do a band scan and it showed up in my ipv4
address block.
On 12/11/24 17:42, gene heskett wrote:
First, I don't own a wired mouse except the serial interfaced one on
my now dead from nearly 40 yo caps trs-80 color computer
I thought you ran a graphical desktop environment (?). Doing so
without a pointing device sounds like a lot of work.
If a lack of a pointing device causes d-i to install accessibility
tools that you do not want, I suggest connecting a pointing device
during installation.
3. So hooking that up would probably trigger the install of orca and
brltty despite specifically skipping by that question from the
installer.. IDK, haven't tried it.
I have an older PS/2 VGA KVM switch with too many adapters. The mouse and/or keyboard die periodically, and I must power cycle the right
equipment to get them working again. I run the Xfce desktop, and the
KVM episodes do not trigger installation of accessibility software.
Won't do this below either, because putting it back together would be
the equ of pulling a new mobo out of the box and building it all up
from scratch again.
Yes. Reduce complexity, document your work so that it is repeatable,
and you will be in a much better position to troubleshoot any issues.
Those 2 slots, rumor has it only 1 will work, but which one? No one
can tell me.
On 12/9/24 17:51, David Christensen wrote:
2. Connect the 1 TB WD Black M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 SSD into motherboard
slot M.2_1.
Please RTFM:
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-z370-a-ii/helpdesk_manual?model2Name=PRIME-Z370-A-II
They are buried UNDER several other cards,
That should be removed during the next fresh install.
Maybe by then wifi will be secure, it is sure not now when a neighbor
with a hell fone can use 60GB of my bandwidth a month w/o leaving a
log. That was not found until i had a new printer do a band scan and
it showed up in my ipv4 address block.
Please configure your gateway and/or access points:
- Enable WPA2/WPA3 security and set a secure password.
- Enable MAC filtering, enter the MAC addresses of your devices, and
block all other MAC addresses.
David
.
On 12/12/2024 11:51, David Christensen wrote:FF does not do that particular bit of tomfoolery. And the old router
Please configure your gateway and/or access points:
- Enable WPA2/WPA3 security and set a secure password.
- Enable MAC filtering, enter the MAC addresses of your devices, and
block all other MAC addresses.
MAC filtering adds almost nothing to protection but may be a source of annoyance. Devices may rotate MAC addresses for privacy reasons unless
it is explicitly disabled.
I am second to that WEP, WPA (early variant), WPS should be disabled.
Actually the issue is more serious. Gene can not recall router
password. It is even more severe. Since Chrome stole port 80 on his
machines he can not use any search engine. As a result he has no
chance to discover an OpenWRT article how to reset the password.
.
On 12/11/24 23:52, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/11/24 17:42, gene heskett wrote:
First, I don't own a wired mouse except the serial interfaced one on
my now dead from nearly 40 yo caps trs-80 color computer
I thought you ran a graphical desktop environment (?). Doing so
without a pointing device sounds like a lot of work.
If a lack of a pointing device causes d-i to install accessibility
tools that you do not want, I suggest connecting a pointing device
during installation.
The point you are missing is hat the mouse is a wireless mouse, rx'd by
a usb button.
On 12/12/24 00:44, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/11/24 23:52, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/11/24 17:42, gene heskett wrote:
First, I don't own a wired mouse except the serial interfaced
one on my now dead from nearly 40 yo caps trs-80 color computer
I thought you ran a graphical desktop environment (?). Doing so
without a pointing device sounds like a lot of work.
If a lack of a pointing device causes d-i to install accessibility
tools that you do not want, I suggest connecting a pointing device
during installation.
The point you are missing is hat the mouse is a wireless mouse, rx'd by
a usb button.
So, that mouse is incompatible with d-i. Use a mouse that is compatible. I prefer Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical USB and PS/2 Compatible. They work
with every computer and KVM switch I use.
On 12/12/24 00:44, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/11/24 23:52, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/11/24 17:42, gene heskett wrote:
First, I don't own a wired mouse except the serial interfaced one
on my now dead from nearly 40 yo caps trs-80 color computer
I thought you ran a graphical desktop environment (?). Doing so
without a pointing device sounds like a lot of work.
If a lack of a pointing device causes d-i to install accessibility
tools that you do not want, I suggest connecting a pointing device
during installation.
The point you are missing is hat the mouse is a wireless mouse, rx'd
by a usb button.
So, that mouse is incompatible with d-i. Use a mouse that isThey are all logitek's, if they were bad, the whole world would know it.
compatible. I prefer Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical USB and PS/2 Compatible. They work with every computer and KVM switch I use.
David
.
On 12/12/24 12:30, David Christensen wrote:
So, that mouse is incompatible with d-i. Use a mouse that isThey are all logitek's, if they were bad, the whole world would know it.
compatible. I prefer Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical USB and PS/2
Compatible. They work with every computer and KVM switch I use.
sudo lsusb -vv
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Device Descriptor:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Device Descriptor:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
On 12/12/24 10:15, gene heskett wrote:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Device Descriptor:
I would remove the USB receiver, the wireless keyboard, and the wireless mouse. Connect a known good wired USB keyboard and a known good wired USB mouse. Then try the teardown and install.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 01:15:54PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:That it does, thanks for taking a look Tomas.
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver[...]
Device Descriptor:
Thanks, Gene.
Unfortunately, I don't see anything supporting my hypothesis.
The mystery remains.
Cheers
On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying
Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Device
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse
So it is a HID and should not cause any trouble.
I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial
ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive
technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device.
On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote:
On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying
Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface
Device
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse
So it is a HID and should not cause any trouble.
I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial
ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive
technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device.
I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer stopped it from installing that crap.
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
On Thu 12 Dec 2024 at 12:26:11 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 13:15:54 -0500
gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying Receiver
Well, that's interesting. I have one of those; I'm using it right now.
I vaguely recall buying it about ten years ago. It works fine for me.
However, it is possible that Gene and I have different chip sets, either
in the receiver or in the keyboard or rodent, that make for some subtle differences.
Stepping back a moment —
Andy Cater wrote "The 30 installs you did resulted in a whole stream
of annoyed emails: that was almost entirely because you had a USB
serial device. Simplify, simplify, simplify."
So now Gene describes his mouse, and takes the opportunity to
recapitulate all (some of?) his woes, starting with the speaking
installer, and then moving on to the 30-sec requester lag,
not forgetting the tbird problem and the freeze. Suddenly the
poor old mouse is under suspicion as the source of all Gene's woes.
Seems unlikely. I'm in agreement with Andy Cater and Andy Smith.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 05:38:13PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
On Thu 12 Dec 2024 at 12:26:11 (-0700), Charles Curley wrote:[...]
On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 13:15:54 -0500Stepping back a moment —
gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying ReceiverWell, that's interesting. I have one of those; I'm using it right now.
I vaguely recall buying it about ten years ago. It works fine for me.
However, it is possible that Gene and I have different chip sets, either >>> in the receiver or in the keyboard or rodent, that make for some subtle
differences.
Andy Cater wrote "The 30 installs you did resulted in a whole stream
of annoyed emails: that was almost entirely because you had a USB
serial device. Simplify, simplify, simplify."
So now Gene describes his mouse, and takes the opportunity to[...]
recapitulate all (some of?) his woes, starting with the speaking
installer, and then moving on to the 30-sec requester lag,
not forgetting the tbird problem and the freeze. Suddenly the
poor old mouse is under suspicion as the source of all Gene's woes.
Seems unlikely. I'm in agreement with Andy Cater and Andy Smith.That would mean that, with "just" that mouse on USB (and perhaps
a keyboard), the installer wouldn't try to yell at Gene anymore.
Is this so, Gene?
You don't have to follow through with the installation, mind you:I agree with that but dammit system, give me a clue, its not bitching,
just going so far as to ascertain whether it starts in "vision
impaired" mode; OTOH I'd accept that your curiosity is limited at
this point.
AFAIK, and having had a look at the Linux USB ID repo [1], where
vendor and ID are alright (the clear text part in the lsusb output
also confirms that), I'd exculpate that mouse.
My main hypothesis (that the installer at some point (mis-)identified
some widget hanging off the USB as a device a vision impaired person
would have had and helpfully switching to audio mode) stays.
Cheers
[1] http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:I'd be ecstatic if something would stick up a hand and complain, as it
On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote:It's not a no-no, Gene. It just contradicts the experience of so many
On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote:I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. UnifyingSo it is a HID and should not cause any trouble.
Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface
Device
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass
bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse
I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial
ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive
technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device.
instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer >> stopped it from installing that crap.
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
people that you'd have to present a heavily smoking gun to move that discussion.
Cheers
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of the subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical have been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msg while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg every 5 minutes.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of theHm. Difficult to tell, then.
subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from
installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical have >> been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msgI'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg
every 5 minutes.
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
On 12/13/24 03:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of the subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical haveHm. Difficult to tell, then.
been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msg while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg every 5 minutes.I'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
CheersWherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible perms denial. I did an ls -lR on the directory in home where I put the unpacked .xz, and I own every byte of it. The only thing I don't own in /home/gene is .. That's root:root as expected.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 04:48:09AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Exploring the possibility of accidentally making some part of the $PATH
On 12/13/24 03:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:Sorry. I'm totally confused. I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible perms
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of the >>>> subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from >>>> installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical haveHm. Difficult to tell, then.
been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msg >>>> while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg >>>> every 5 minutes.I'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
denial. I did an ls -lR on the directory in home where I put the unpacked
.xz, and I own every byte of it. The only thing I don't own in /home/gene is >> .. That's root:root as expected.
Cheers
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of theHm. Difficult to tell, then.
subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from
installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical have >> been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msgI'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg
every 5 minutes.
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible perms denial.
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 2:00 AM
From: "gene heskett" <gheskett@shentel.net>
To: tomas@tuxteam.de
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze
On 12/13/24 01:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote:It's not a no-no, Gene. It just contradicts the experience of so many people that you'd have to present a heavily smoking gun to move that discussion.
On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote:I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. UnifyingSo it is a HID and should not cause any trouble.
Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface
Device
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass >>>> bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse
I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial
ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive
technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device.
instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer
stopped it from installing that crap.
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
CheersI'd be ecstatic if something would stick up a hand and complain, as it
would probably be a useful clue, but crickets, Tomas
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!
I've had it install orca and company also.
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon.
Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 9:08 AM
From: "Greg Wooledge" <greg@wooledge.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:00:21 +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!
I've had it install orca and company also.
If you want to help Debian fix its installer, give some details.
What version did you install? (The exact image filename is helpful.)
What tasks did you select during the task selection stage?
What hardware device do you suspect led to orca being installed?
If that device is detachable, did you try again after detaching the
device? If so, what results did you get?
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon.
Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
Well. It sounds like you don't actually want to help. Unfortunate.
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 2:00 AMI'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!
From: "gene heskett" <gheskett@shentel.net>
To: tomas@tuxteam.de
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze
On 12/13/24 01:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:I'd be ecstatic if something would stick up a hand and complain, as it
On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote:It's not a no-no, Gene. It just contradicts the experience of so many
On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote:I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. UnifyingSo it is a HID and should not cause any trouble.
Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface
Device
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass >>>>>> bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse
I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial >>>>> ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive
technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device.
instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer
stopped it from installing that crap.
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
people that you'd have to present a heavily smoking gun to move that
discussion.
Cheers
would probably be a useful clue, but crickets, Tomas
I've had it install orca and company also.
The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install. Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top.
Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux.
Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton of installed things I just didn't need.
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon.
Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
.
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!
I've had it install orca and company also.
The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of
packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum
install.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:00:21 +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote:That has been posted ad infinitum. Bookworm, netinstall. You all have
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!If you want to help Debian fix its installer, give some details.
I've had it install orca and company also.
What version did you install?
(The exact image filename is helpful.)the original bookworm net installer, the only usb plugged in was the
What tasks did you select during the task selection stage?
What hardware device do you suspect led to orca being installed?
If that device is detachable, did you try again after detaching the
device? If so, what results did you get?
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon.Well. It sounds like you don't actually want to help. Unfortunate.
Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
.
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 15:00:21 +0100
pocket@homemail.com wrote:
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!!The only problem here is that orca is not necessarily installed by the installer. I do a command line only installation, no X, no desktop,
I've had it install orca and company also.
The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of
packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum
install.
etc. And it does not install orca. orca is pulled in by "apt install task-xfce-desktop".
If you really object to having orca, I suggest you find out which
package(s) pull(s) in orca, and see if you can remove it as a
dependency.
On 13/12/2024 22:00, Charles Curley wrote:
orca is pulled in by "apt install
task-xfce-desktop".
On this way it is an optional package (Recommends, not Depends). So Gene has something different.
On 13/12/2024 23:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:
Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configured differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included.
Gene claimed that he can not remove it, but recommended packages may be removed.
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
On 12/13/24 09:00, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
Finally, after nearly 2 years, somebody else has an installer problem
besides me..
Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux.
orca is pulled in by "apt install task-xfce-desktop".
Hi,
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 03:00:21PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux.
Do you only remain on this list to repeatedly mention that you use Arch, actually?
On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 00:11:11 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:Precisely, it originally wanted to remove around 78 packages,
On 13/12/2024 23:40, Greg Wooledge wrote:It would be helpful to know exactly what command Gene ran, when he
Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configuredGene claimed that he can not remove it, but recommended packages may be
differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included.
removed.
tried to remove it, and what the result was.
It wouldn't surprise me if Gene did something like "apt remove orca",
saw that it would remove some kind of task-gnome package, and got
frightened and aborted it.
.
Hi,
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.Have you actually ever reported a bug against debian-installer for this behaviour though? I'm guessing they would first ask for the install log
that it writes into root's home directory.
If you have, can you tell us the bug number?
If you haven't, I think you should. Perhaps phrase it as "I don't
understand why assistive technologies are enabled on every install I do,
can you tell me please?"
Thanks,
Andy
I'd file a new bug, if i could but bugs.debian.org thinks I'm a spammer and rejects it.
What am I supposed to do, paint them on the wall?
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:50:06 -0500, gene heskett wrote:Don't swear at me please. The biggest src of phishing mail is gmail,
I'd file a new bug, if i could but bugs.debian.org thinks I'm a spammer and >> rejects it.Show us.
Why bother.
What am I supposed to do, paint them on the wall?If you can't send it using your normal email user agent, generate the
bug report in a file and paste it into the body of a message that you
compose using whatever crappy web-mail account you have (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.).
.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 3:50 PM gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
I'd file a new bug, if i could but bugs.debian.org thinks I'm a spammerI use CrashPlan to back up to the cloud. Saved my ass more than once.
and rejects it. Paranoia is fine in today's world, but do ID like the
banks do when you try to use a new firefox, send a code you must return
to prove you are who you say would be a good start, As is, I can't even
get close enough to read them and drive crashes have long since erased
any reference I might have recorded from then. What am I supposed to do,
paint them on the wall? I bought two new 2T Seagates to install
bookworm on, spent a week copying almost 26 years worth of my personal
history to them, 2 weeks later both of them died, going off line in the
middle of the night, so I lost stuff that went back to Feb. 98. So that
started my saga with bookworm which has been the 5th great
disappointment in my life.
The first 4 were burying my first wife, and one at a time, the threeYou have had more sadness and heartache than anyone should ever have.
children she gave me.
.
On 12/13/24 15:56, Larry Martell wrote:
On 12/13/24 03:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:expected.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible perms denial. I did an ls -lR on the directory in home where I put the unpacked .xz, and I own every byte of it. The only thing I don't own in /home/gene is .. That's root:root as
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of the >>> subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it fromHm. Difficult to tell, then.
installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical have >>> been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msg >>> while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg >>> every 5 minutes.I'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
On 12/13/24 02:48, gene heskett wrote:That is the case.
On 12/13/24 03:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every oneHm. Difficult to tell, then.
of the
subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it
from
installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of
graphical have
been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy ofI'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
a msg
while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a
draft msg
every 5 minutes.
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
perms denial. I did an ls -lR on the directory in home where I put
the unpacked .xz, and I own every byte of it. The only thing I don't
own in /home/gene is .. That's root:root as expected.
The correct permissions for your login directory (/home/gene/) are
gene:gene, assuming you log in as "gene" and would have been set to
that if you created the user "gene" during install.
/home should have permissions root:root.
I do not know whether that has anything to do with the problems you
are having, but correcting it might have some effect and might head
off others.
With gnome, orca is installed as a dependency. The presumptively
correct way to tame it seems to be via the gnome menu item Settings->Accessibility. Mine has every option set to "off" except
"Enable Animations," which causes me no grief.
If brltty is installed and you don't need it, the proper action is
"apt purge brltty," which I have done on occasion.
Regards,
Tom Dial
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
.
On 14/12/2024 07:04, gene heskett wrote:
I've done that to both orca and brltty, the dependency's seem to have
been removed now.
What is output of the following command?
dpkg -l orca brltty
gene@coyote:~$ dpkg -l orca brltty
dpkg-query: no packages found matching brltty Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version Architecture Description +++-==============-============-============-=================================
un orca <none> <none> (no description available)
gene@coyote:~$
Does
dpkg -V
gene@coyote:~$ dpkg -V
missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied) missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/20-org.d (Permission denied) missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/30-site.d (Permission denied) missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d (Permission denied) missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/90-mandatory.d (Permission denied)
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/49-polkit-pkla-compat.rules
(Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/20-org.d (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/30-site.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/90-mandatory.d
(Permission denied)
??5?????? c /etc/udisks2/udisks2.conf
??5?????? c /etc/rsyslog.conf
??5?????? /lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service
??5?????? c /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.freedesktop.GeoClue2.rules (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/org.freedesktop.GeoClue2.pkla (Permission denied)
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/systemd-networkd.rules (Permission denied)
missing
/usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.rules
(Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.pkla
(Permission denied)
????????? c /etc/sudoers.d/kdesu-sudoers
missing
/usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/com.endlessm.ParentalControls.rules
(Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.endlessm.ParentalControls.pkla
(Permission denied)
????????? c /etc/sudoers.d/zfs
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.gtk.vfs.file-operations.rules (Permission denied)
??5?????? c /etc/default/mbmon
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/gnome-control-center.rules (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/gnome-control-center.pkla (Permission denied)
????????? c /etc/sudoers
????????? c /etc/sudoers.d/README
??5?????? c /etc/ntpsec/ntp.conf
????????? /usr/libexec/samba/smbspool_krb5_wrapper
missing /usr/share/doc/f3/README.rst.gz
??5?????? c /etc/suricata/suricata.yaml
????????? c /etc/exim4/passwd.client
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/20-gnome-initial-setup.rules
(Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing
/var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/gnome-initial-setup.pkla (Permission denied)
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.freedesktop.packagekit.rules (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/org.freedesktop.packagekit.pkla (Permission denied)
????????? /usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-brf
????????? c /etc/default/cacerts
??5?????? c /etc/sane.d/dll.conf
??5?????? c /etc/sane.d/gphoto2.conf
????????? c /etc/fwupd/redfish.conf
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.freedesktop.fwupd.rules
(Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority (Permission denied) missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
missing /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/fwupd.pkla
(Permission denied)
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/50-default.rules (Permission denied)
missing /usr/share/polkit-1/rules.d/org.freedesktop.bolt.rules (Permission denied)
gene@coyote:~$
reports anything besides conffiles? Fighting with orca you could
remove files that belong to other packages.
.
On 12/13/24 22:20, Max Nikulin wrote:
dpkg -V
gene@coyote:~$ dpkg -V
missing /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d (Permission denied)
On 14/12/2024 07:04, gene heskett wrote:
I've done that to both orca and brltty, the dependency's seem to have
been removed now.
What is output of the following command?
dpkg -l orca brltty
Does
dpkg -V
reports anything besides conffiles? Fighting with orca you could remove
files that belong to other packages.
I use CrashPlan to back up to the cloud. Saved my ass more than once.
On 12/13/24 12:50, gene heskett wrote:
I bought two new 2T Seagates to install bookworm on, spent a week
copying almost 26 years worth of my personal history to them, 2 weeks
later both of them died, going off line in the middle of the night,
so I lost stuff that went back to Feb. 98. So that started my saga
with bookworm which has been the 5th great disappointment in my life.
I see some references to the drive failures in the debian-user mailing
list archives:
https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=debian-user%40lists.debian.org&q=heskett+seagate+2T&x=0&y=0
Have you contacted Seagate to see if the drives are eligible forScrew seagate with a hot branding iron., they used the marketplace to
Rescue Data Recovery Services?
https://www.seagate.com/products/rescue-data-recovery/
The first 4 were burying my first wife, and one at a time, the three
children she gave me.
That's old history now. 1st had a killer stroke at 34, 2nd (17 years,
came with 3 of jerry's kids, md, made 3 more boys) has passed, and
3rd (31 years has passed from COPD. Now I'm just an old fart,
puttering around alone in a 3 bedroom ranchette.
You have my condolences.
David
.
On 12/14/24 00:52, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/13/24 12:50, gene heskett wrote:
Screw seagate with a hot branding iron., they used the marketplace to test a tech that wasn't ready for prime time and likely never will be. In my employment history I learned a thing or two about helium as I probably
tested the pressure regulatores that gave John Glenn his first rides, primarily that man has no material that will contain it, the molecule is so small it walks right thru 2" of monel metal [...]
On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 09:23:33AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/14/24 00:52, David Christensen wrote:[...]
On 12/13/24 12:50, gene heskett wrote:
Screw seagate with a hot branding iron., they used the marketplace to test a >> tech that wasn't ready for prime time and likely never will be. In myC'mon. You keep repeating this story. It's simply wrong.
employment history I learned a thing or two about helium as I probably
tested the pressure regulatores that gave John Glenn his first rides,
primarily that man has no material that will contain it, the molecule is so >> small it walks right thru 2" of monel metal [...]
It's harder to make a helium tight gasket, true. But quite possible.you are correct, it is physics. Tell helium that.
This is physics, not magic.
Cheers
On 12/14/24 00:52, David Christensen wrote:
Have you contacted Seagate to see if the drives are eligible for
Rescue Data Recovery Services?
https://www.seagate.com/products/rescue-data-recovery/
Screw seagate with a hot branding iron., they used the marketplace to
test a tech that wasn't ready for prime time and likely never will be.
In my employment history I learned a thing or two about helium as I
probably tested the pressure regulatores that gave John Glenn his first rides, primarily that man has no material that will contain it, the
molecule is so small it walks right thru 2" of monel metal, about 10% of
it a day.. Seagate filled those drives with helium because it allows the
head to fly closeer to the disk, but a month later the helium was gone. Then it turned out they were shingled, meaning the tracks were partially overlapped. They used me for a lab rat and I damned sure didn't
appreciate that, not when it was my $250. Seagate will never again get
a penny from me.
systemd-analyze verify rsyslog.service
systemctl status rsyslog.service
systemctl --failed
systemctl --user --failed
On 12/14/24 06:23, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/14/24 00:52, David Christensen wrote:
Have you contacted Seagate to see if the drives are eligible for
Rescue Data Recovery Services?
https://www.seagate.com/products/rescue-data-recovery/
Screw seagate with a hot branding iron., they used the marketplace to
test a tech that wasn't ready for prime time and likely never will
be. In my employment history I learned a thing or two about helium as
I probably tested the pressure regulatores that gave John Glenn his
first rides, primarily that man has no material that will contain it,
the molecule is so small it walks right thru 2" of monel metal, about
10% of it a day.. Seagate filled those drives with helium because it
allows the head to fly closeer to the disk, but a month later the
helium was gone. Then it turned out they were shingled, meaning the
tracks were partially overlapped. They used me for a lab rat and I
damned sure didn't appreciate that, not when it was my $250. Seagate
will never again get a penny from me.
26 years of lost data is huge. If you can ship your failed drives to Seagate and get back new drives with all or part of your data, then
that is worth a try. Fill out the Seagate web page for each drive,
submit, and see what happens. Document everything.
What is the make and model of the failed drives? I see yourI was so pissed at the time I pitched them into the trash that they
complaints in the mail list archives starting around May 30, 2022, but
not those details:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00823.html
David
.
On 14/12/2024 11:29, gene heskett wrote:gene@coyote:~$ sudo systemd-analyze verify rsyslog.service
gene@coyote:~$ dpkg -l orca brltty[...]
dpkg-query: no packages found matching brltty
un orca <none> <none> (no description available)
OK, no it is convincing.
On 14/12/2024 21:26, gene heskett wrote:
gene@coyote:~$ sudo dpkg -V
??5?????? c /etc/udisks2/udisks2.conf
??5?????? c /etc/rsyslog.conf
??5?????? /lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service
??5?????? c /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
??5?????? c /etc/default/mbmon
??5?????? c /etc/ntpsec/ntp.conf
missing /usr/share/doc/f3/README.rst.gz
??5?????? c /etc/suricata/suricata.yaml
??5?????? c /etc/sane.d/dll.conf
??5?????? c /etc/sane.d/gphoto2.conf
On 12/13/24 22:20, Max Nikulin wrote:reports anything besides conffiles?
Have you read the output before posting it?
Actually I do not see anything really suspicious besides that /lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service may be replaced by a package
update. Use /etc to tune systemd services. I hope
systemd-analyze verify rsyslog.service
systemctl status rsyslog.service
reports no error.
I am not familiar with suricata (I may be wrong expecting to see it onWhat is suricata, first I've heard of it
a gateway rather than on a regular PC). You mentioned some network
issues. Do you monitor suricata state&logs at these moments?
Next step of check if the system in a sane state
systemctl --failed
systemctl --user --failedgene@coyote:~$ systemctl --user --failed
Perhaps you posted it previous time, but, please, repeat it: What applications installed as .deb packages from official Debian
repositories are affected by that delay issues? Various 3rd party, AppImage's, etc. are more complicated cases.
.
Do you monitor suricata state&logs at these moments?What is suricata, first I've heard of it
Our std night shift procedure was to pump the big tank down to under 2 or 3 psi, which put the bottles up around 7400 to 7800 psi at midnight. The morning shift at 8AM had 5200 psi to play with till the truck got there. Around a 2500 diff. Where did the rest of it go?
Well, this has certainly become quite the Gene thread hasn't it?
tested with soapy water weekly for leakage. If you looked closely when
the tanks were wet, bubbles could be seen forming on the outside of
the tanks.
Merry Christmas everyone! We've obviously all been bad children.
Hi,Have you ever seen a cardox compressor? This one had intercoolers bigger
Gene Heskett wrote:
Our std night shift procedure was to pump the big tank down to under 2 or 3 >> psi, which put the bottles up around 7400 to 7800 psi at midnight. TheMy bet is still on high-school thermodynamics.
morning shift at 8AM had 5200 psi to play with till the truck got there.
Around a 2500 diff. Where did the rest of it go?
The pressure of a given amount of gas in a given volume is proportional
to its absolute temperature. Pressure reduction from 7400 to 5200 would correspond to a temperature reduction from e.g. 427 Kelvin (309 F, more
than boiling hot but not glowing) to 300 Kelvin (80 F, luke warm).
Helium is known to heat up much during compression:
https://www.bauercomp.com/products/helium
"helium releases large amounts of heat when compressed, which the
compressor must be able to absorb and shed."
This diagram looks like it's getting really hot:
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilp2QY9nqT0RsVCmojeGCq8gBn5XqUU_wdRex72kjNSWqe4BeXlbHhREPx-M-YrwAx3txSi16MX3IJgj5dh1dRJ5dKVunIFsVhieC-ioX35I9iT7qQm7PE1azs-jq_A43XlvYV4PfMXCw/s640/adiabatic+compression.png
(I expect the compressor to have disposed a lot through its cooling rips.)
In the bottles it has lots of surface per volume to dissipate heat
over night.
We should now discuss our options for building a time machine which can
send an oven thermometer back to the 1960s.
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
.
On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 11:21:03AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Love your humor Andy, and I concur. Merry Christmas everybody.
tested with soapy water weekly for leakage. If you looked closely whenWell, this has certainly become quite the Gene thread hasn't it?
the tanks were wet, bubbles could be seen forming on the outside of
the tanks.
Is it about a computer staying up for only a minute?
Is it about Thunderbird not working?
Is it about mysterious assistive technologies verbally taunting Gene forevermore?
Is it about a frustrating ~30 second pause whenever a GUI file dialog is displayed?
Is it about Debian's bug tracker considering Gene's emails spam so none
of these complaints can ever be reported to anyone who could fix any of
it, if indeed it is not user error?
Is it about an entire industry being foolish with helium against Gene's better knowledge?
Is it about soap bubbles on the outside of some bottles?
All of the above! Forever! Merry Christmas everyone! We've obviously all
been bad children.
On 12/13/24 18:23, Tom Dial wrote:expected.
On 12/13/24 02:48, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/13/24 03:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:53:55AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:Wherever it try's, t-b seemto be interpreting the lag as a possible perms denial. I did an ls -lR on the directory in home where I put the unpacked .xz, and I own every byte of it. The only thing I don't own in /home/gene is .. That's root:root as
[...]
That was the system config at the original install, and every one of the >>>>> subsequent installs, nothing I did with the installer prevented it from >>>>> installing orca and brltty. Text only, several variations of graphical haveHm. Difficult to tell, then.
been tried.
Another clue perhaps: where does t-bird try to save a draft copy of a msg >>>>> while editing it?, its driving me crazy with failed to write a draft msg >>>>> every 5 minutes.I'd venture the strong guess that this is a totally unrelated rabbit
hole. In our trade, there are several of them, as you quite certainly
know.
Cheers
The correct permissions for your login directory (/home/gene/) are gene:gene, assuming you log in as "gene" and would have been set to that if you created the user "gene" during install.
/home should have permissions root:root.My menu has no Accessibility bar under settings.
I do not know whether that has anything to do with the problems you are having, but correcting it might have some effect and might head off others.
With gnome, orca is installed as a dependency. The presumptively correct way to tame it seems to be via the gnome menu item Settings->Accessibility. Mine has every option set to "off" except "Enable Animations," which causes me no grief.
If brltty is installed and you don't need it, the proper action is "apt purge brltty," which I have done on occasion.
I've done that to both orca and brltty, the dependency's seem to have been removed now.
No change though.
Regards,
Tom Dial
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
Have you ever seen a cardox compressor?
This one had intercoolers bigger
than the cylinders. Fitst cylinder was around a cubic foot per stroke, next on about a quart, till the 6th one was about 2 cc's.
What are we going to do when we run out? Mine a star?
On 14/12/2024 23:44, gene heskett wrote:I purged it, then forcibly removed the log files and directory. The lag
What is suricata, first I've heard of it
I was expecting that you would walk through every item reported by
"dpkg -V" and "systemctl --failed". For the former, you have enough
data locally to get more info
dpkg -S /etc/suricata/suricata.yaml
and "apt show" with the reported package name. Either you clicked at aI am totally alone, have been for about 5 years now. IOW, if it got done
wrong item or somebody manages your computer.
Depending on the degree of your paranoia, I would either just purge
suricata or to dig into apt and dpkg logs to figure out when it was
installed and what actions were performed around that time.
Audit other lines as well: were modifications intentional? If it is
not a conffile then move changes to /etc and restore original version.
.
On 15/12/2024 03:24, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/14/24 12:31, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
Gene Heskett wrote:
Our std night shift procedure was to pump the big tank down to
under 2 or 3
psi, which put the bottles up around 7400 to 7800 psi at midnight. The >>>> morning shift at 8AM had 5200 psi to play with till the truck got
there.
Around a 2500 diff. Where did the rest of it go?
The pressure of a given amount of gas in a given volume is proportional
to its absolute temperature. Pressure reduction from 7400 to 5200 would
correspond to a temperature reduction from e.g. 427 Kelvin (309 F, more
than boiling hot but not glowing) to 300 Kelvin (80 F, luke warm).
The next step would be calculation of ideal gas temperature in a
vessel after filling it from atmospheric pressure to 7500 psi (rather
high value) neglecting heat dissipation through the vessel walls.
(Side not: compressor thrust may be hot as well) +100 K difference
does not look like an overestimate from my point of view.
I've BTDT, have you?
Heating during filling was mentioned previous time as well and sounds reasonable.
.
On 12/10/24 18:07, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 18:01:24 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then your
Debian
installation is broken.
Or the hardware is broken. Running a specfic program may exercise the
broken hardware in a way that causes it to fail, while other programs
do not.
If the OP runs Debian OOTB, okay. But, Gene does anything but that.
David
.
I use CrashPlan to back up to the cloud. Saved my ass more than once.
On 12/10/24 23:06, David Christensen wrote:
On 12/10/24 18:07, Greg Wooledge wrote:if debian kept the popular aps up to date, I'd use them. T-bird is an example. With suricata gone its still going out to lala - land while
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 18:01:24 -0800, David Christensen wrote:
If official Debian packages cause your system to crash, then your
Debian
installation is broken.
Or the hardware is broken. Running a specfic program may exercise the
broken hardware in a way that causes it to fail, while other programs
do not.
If the OP runs Debian OOTB, okay. But, Gene does anything but that.
fetching new mail. The beta is in .xz format, unpacked into it own / home/gene/thunderbird directory is running fine. The only real problem
is its creating and using a whole new mail directory, and none my
sorting filters yet exist. With suracata gone, it says it connected to imap.server at my isp, collecting 599 msgs to catch up, but goes out to
lunch for an hour using 100% of a core, the gui is dead, mouse clicks anyplace are ignored, killall kills it instantly. Just did a full-
upgrade, 7 security pkgs, now its fetching the same 577 headers & htop
thinks its running ok. But it got to the last header count, went to
100.5% of a core, no response to a mouse click any place. This is your t-bird doing that, beta is working fine, you are reading it.
Merry Christmas all.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 154:21:53 |
| Calls: | 10,383 |
| Files: | 14,054 |
| Messages: | 6,417,847 |
