• Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe

    From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Fri Dec 13 16:40:01 2024
    On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote:

    IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.

    Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a
    *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it.

    You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got
    a tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have
    made it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past
    your guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this
    list. Debian has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a
    report at bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected,  Maybe
    debian should start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a
    bug report.

    Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code
    number to our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be. 
    Its a pita about once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT
    IT WORKS.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Fri Dec 13 19:50:01 2024
    On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:36:28AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

    On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote:

    IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.

    Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a
    *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it.

    You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got a tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have made
    it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past your guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this list. Debian has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a report at bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected,  Maybe debian should start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a bug report.


    Hey Gene,

    Don't forget: there are Debian developers on this list. You're writing to
    one.

    People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off.

    I have done a few thousand Debian installs: unless I've actually wanted
    to use Orca / espeak and a speech installer, I've never had the issues
    you have had.

    Some Braille input devices rely on serial / USB -> serial input. It is
    just possible that an install with serial cables enabled _might_
    misidentify as a brltty.

    Without error messages, the rest of us can do almost nothing except
    guess. We've been asking for specifics from you for *years*

    In the middle of your 30 installs I can remember corresponding with
    you asking to simplify things - but no dice
    .
    The installer isn't necessarily broken - hundreds of people use it
    every day/week/month - but something you have done at some point has
    tripped an edge case, maybe. Without details / a reinstall we will
    never, ever know. Complaints without substance to chase down are
    just complaints.

    As it is, the readers on the list are presented with an X-Y problem
    pretty much every month from you.

    All best, as ever, and stay well,

    Andy Cater
    (amacater@debian.org)

    Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code number to our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be.  Its a pita about once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT IT WORKS.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis


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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Andrew M.A. Cater on Fri Dec 13 22:10:01 2024
    On 12/13/24 13:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
    On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:36:28AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote:
    IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no.
    Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a
    *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it.

    You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got a >> tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have made >> it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past your
    guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this list. Debian >> has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a report at
    bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected,  Maybe debian should >> start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a bug report.

    Hey Gene,

    Don't forget: there are Debian developers on this list. You're writing to one.

    People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off.
    Often because they are asking me to start fresh with clean drives, a
    multiday operation to collect all the stuff I use daily. I have already
    done that, many many times.  It matches Alberts definition of insanity.

    I have done a few thousand Debian installs: unless I've actually wanted
    to use Orca / espeak and a speech installer, I've never had the issues
    you have had.

    Some Braille input devices rely on serial / USB -> serial input. It is
    just possible that an install with serial cables enabled _might_
    misidentify as a brltty.

    Without error messages, the rest of us can do almost nothing except
    guess. We've been asking for specifics from you for *years*

    In the middle of your 30 installs I can remember corresponding with
    you asking to simplify things - but no dice
    .
    The installer isn't necessarily broken - hundreds of people use it
    every day/week/month - but something you have done at some point has
    tripped an edge case, maybe. Without details / a reinstall we will
    never, ever know. Complaints without substance to chase down are
    just complaints.

    As it is, the readers on the list are presented with an X-Y problem
    pretty much every month from you.

    All best, as ever, and stay well,

    Andy Cater
    (amacater@debian.org)

    Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code number to >> our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be.  Its a pita about
    once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT IT WORKS.

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Sat Dec 14 09:00:02 2024
    On 12/13/24 13:08, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/13/24 13:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
    People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off.

    Often because they are asking me to start fresh with clean drives, a
    multiday operation to collect all the stuff I use daily. I have already
    done that, many many times.  It matches Alberts definition of insanity.


    Your Asus machine represents "all of your eggs in one basket". You need
    more computers. A storage server would be a useful addition to your
    network:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00179.html


    David

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to David Christensen on Sat Dec 14 15:50:01 2024
    On 12/14/24 02:51, David Christensen wrote:
    On 12/13/24 13:08, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/13/24 13:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
    People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off.

    Often because they are asking me to start fresh with clean drives, a
    multiday operation to collect all the stuff I use daily. I have
    already done that, many many times.  It matches Alberts definition of
    insanity.


    Your Asus machine represents "all of your eggs in one basket". You
    need more computers.  A storage server would be a useful addition to
    your network:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00179.html

    Its life testing drives now, but not fully assembled, using a separate
    psu, a bananapi m5 and printing the shelves for a 6 drive rack that will
    each have two drives per shelf. Tripping over cat6 all over the house. 
    Need to make holes with a spade bit to hide cat6 in the basement.
    One of those things that need a round tuit.

    David

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Sat Dec 14 18:40:01 2024
    On 12/14/24 06:41, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/14/24 02:51, David Christensen wrote:
    A storage server would be a useful addition to your network:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00179.html

    Its life testing drives now, but not fully assembled, using a separate
    psu, a bananapi m5 and printing the shelves for a 6 drive rack that will
    each have two drives per shelf.


    Wow! Gene is implementing one of my suggestions! I am flattered! :-)


    Please post a photograph online somewhere when it is built. I am
    curious to see your custom/ mod/ 3-D printed case.


    David

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  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to David Christensen on Sat Dec 14 21:50:01 2024
    On 12/14/24 12:38, David Christensen wrote:
    On 12/14/24 06:41, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/14/24 02:51, David Christensen wrote:
    A storage server would be a useful addition to your network:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00179.html

    Its life testing drives now, but not fully assembled, using a
    separate psu, a bananapi m5 and printing the shelves for a 6 drive
    rack that will each have two drives per shelf.


    Wow!  Gene is implementing one of my suggestions!  I am flattered!  :-)


    Please post a photograph online somewhere when it is built.  I am
    curious to see your custom/ mod/ 3-D printed case.

    Just the shelves are printed, you can get the case from amazon as a
    stamped sheet metal thing for just  few bucks. It will look like h---
    because the 7 port all usb_3 hub is longer that it is.  A 6" 24 volt fan idling along on the bpi's 5 volts will cool it quietly. I'll probably
    tie the hub to it with a zip tie or 2. Function is what counts. Pretty
    is for describing girls.

    David

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Sat Dec 14 22:30:01 2024
    On 12/14/24 12:40, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/14/24 12:38, David Christensen wrote:
    Please post a photograph online somewhere when it is built.  I am
    curious to see your custom/ mod/ 3-D printed case.

    Just the shelves are printed, you can get the case from amazon as a
    stamped sheet metal thing for just  few bucks. It will look like h--- because the 7 port all usb_3 hub is longer that it is.  A 6" 24 volt fan idling along on the bpi's 5 volts will cool it quietly. I'll probably
    tie the hub to it with a zip tie or 2. Function is what counts. Pretty
    is for describing girls.


    I can't wait to see it. :-)


    David

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  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to gene heskett on Sat Dec 14 23:30:01 2024
    On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 09:41:24AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

    On 12/14/24 02:51, David Christensen wrote:
    On 12/13/24 13:08, gene heskett wrote:
    On 12/13/24 13:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
    People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off.

    Often because they are asking me to start fresh with clean drives, a multiday operation to collect all the stuff I use daily. I have
    already done that, many many times.  It matches Alberts definition
    of insanity.


    A test just now:

    Installing using the standard installer:

    In order to get speech output, you have to specifically select

    Install with speech installer which then uses espeak voice for the install

    Installing using the expert text installer:

    The step which would install a Braille keyboard is skipped unless a Braille keyboard is found.

    An install of XFCE *does* include Orca but it's not enabled unless you explicitly enable Accessibility tools and enable speech and screen reader support

    I do not understand what Gene may have done at some point but I've just
    stepped through a couple of installs and there's no *obvious* way to
    get Orca producing speech indefinitely

    Who knows how Gene did this except Gene himself.

    All best, as ever,

    Andy
    (amacater@debian.org)


    Your Asus machine represents "all of your eggs in one basket". You need more computers.  A storage server would be a useful addition to your network:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg00179.html

    Its life testing drives now, but not fully assembled, using a separate psu,
    a bananapi m5 and printing the shelves for a 6 drive rack that will each
    have two drives per shelf. Tripping over cat6 all over the house.  ;o)> Need to make holes with a spade bit to hide cat6 in the basement. One of those things that need a round tuit.

    David

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)